Panel: Surviving & Thriving: Why Being Part of the Right Ecosystems Matters.

[Music] [Music] [Music] talked about the British ecosystem talk about the British Columbia ecosystem so I'd like to welcome to the stage uh Roda Campbell hello how are you doing cheers man great good to see you I thought you bringing me a gift it's a coffee no it's all right it's okay it's fine are you okay with that have you got enough good to see you been a while cool I'm being

randomly called I'm going to turn it off right are you all good all good we'll let you settle down a bit and then we'll let people come in and out we'll crack on you can move yeah you can move the chair around a little bit if you want to we it's up to you you don't have to go too it's just it's just yeah it's fine the screen's it doesn't really matter the screen so much for this so cool you can go right in front of the screen if you want I mean it's up to you you're going a bit mad but there you go that's fine just right okay off you go the stage is yours morning everyone can you hear me okay yeah good uh thanks for joining us today my name is Roa Campbell and I represent the British Columbia government uh in Europe so BC is on the west coast of Canada and it's probably most well known for its biggest city Vancouver here today we've got uh three Studio heads with us we got Mike from Hollow lens Emma from hyper hippo and Solen from LCB

Studios LBC Studios there I am dyslexic so that was what that was going to happen um and we're here today to have a little chat about ecosystems and how important they are for supporting game studios even individuals um and using Vancouver as a example but also extending that a little bit wider across British Columbia because Emma who works for hypo hippo is in the Okanagan Valley uh with Colona the city which is probably the third biggest city in BC and we're just going to help really explore how being part of uh an established game ecosystem can support um you to grow but also when there are downtrends to help you survive um I think it would be helpful first to have you each just describe a little bit about your the work you do the studio how long you've been in it and and then we can maybe describe a

little bit give a a picture of what BC is like many of you know where Vancouver is but you maybe don't know the the history of game development there the film industry that we have and the budding VR industry Mike okay I'm uh Mike wasi so uh we're actually based in Victoria which is uh on Vancouver Island so uh just across the water from Vancouver uh Hollow Labs started about 12 years ago and uh actually in Montreal so I started the studio over there and in 2015 moved over to BC so I kind of have a perspective of a couple different ecosystems that that uh we've been part of um and we make uh uh games obviously uh but also we work in the theme park industry and in in VR and mixed reality uh uh IND the industry as well and we we fund our internal projects with client work in that industry and and uh right

now we are switching a little bit into VR uh more wholeheartedly from from making a lot of mobile games in the past um I'm Emma um as you said I'm based in uh clona which is British Columbia it's about four hours drive from Vancouver um which I maintain is quicker to get to than getting across North London at the weekend um iose about just over 10 years old uh we make games uh I've been with the company for about four years now my name is Solen buckolz I'm the founder of LBC Studios uh we started the company in 2015 um we are leaders in simulation games in the free-to-play space and uh it's just amazing seeing three heads here that actually represent three completely different Geographic areas of British Columbia which just supports and fosters the diversity that the province has yeah so perhaps um you Mike you could just help us understand

characteristics of of BC's game clusters and and how that is in relation to Canada how it is with North America how it is with the world just to to give people an understanding of why it's sort of the difference but the connection uh as an ecosystem sure I'll try um so Vancouver obviously is the biggest uh the biggest Hub around uh well in British Columbia I think in can Ada you have uh probably most of the gaming companies are in Quebec and and maybe in Montreal Toronto there's tons of gaming companies there as well so obviously the three biggest cities have the three biggest gaming hubs but um there is there is a sort of shift to the outskirts of those places I guess uh so I know in Montreal uh we saw companies move out to Quebec City or to Laval or or uh in in the neighboring areas but where they

could still sort of maintain contact with the bigger bigger hubs obviously the bigger hubs you know have schools where they they train you know they have programs for you know game design or or 3D art or whatever it is right so um it takes those programs and that part of the that the younger the younger generation to come in and fuel the the ecosystem of the bigger Studios and then the and then those uh those those veterans after a few years split off and become and form their own Studios kind of like what happened with ours and uh and then you know those Studios continue to grow and and uh so I forgot what their other part of the question was um with respect to the rest of the the world or yeah just how how does BC Link in with the rest of the world because it's a it's an old ecosystem if in G in game development terms but it's

still relevant so how does how do you see it maintaining its relevance as a global uh ecosystem um well I think uh Vancouver's on the west coast and aligned with um the you know Silicon Valley California so you have uh everyone in the same time zone and a lot of the film industry sort of driving various IPS and Licensing potential there so uh you also have yeah and and companies form out of that there's a lot of tax credit incentives sometimes to form interactive digital media Products that come out of film and television so that definitely uh fuels a lot of the gaming industry as well um I don't know maybe I'll pass pass this question onwards actually Emma I would like to how because you've been with hypo hippo for four years you're in

Colona but you also have a studio in Vancouver hypo hippo does could you help us understand what why is it important to be where you are for the success of your company yeah the great question um I think for us uh one of the most appealing things about being in Colona is that lifestyle component and so I'd say um and particularly in the pandemic where we saw people moving um people wanted to get away from in a big city Hub and and and really think about that life balance so um huge opportunities for British Colombia and uh you know attracting diverse Talent who um have maybe been in the industry for a while um so you've got some really experienced people that were looking at okay I I want to get out of this grind this constant grind um and I want to enjoy a lifestyle where I can go to the beach of the weekend or I can you know go skiing or whatever that looks like for you so I think that for us it's it's been really great at um attracting senior talent for

more of that balance um so that's really helpful we've got as you say we've got studios in Vancouver so we' we've got talent in Vancouver we we've also got talent across uh way across the country we've got people in nov Scotia as well I think um you know being being on this time zone is is great um that we can connect with people on on this coast and um you know and and attend industry conferences it's it's quite it's quite well connected yeah yeah for us uh touching on the first question I think the the first thing that comes up to my mind is collaboration and you know behind that running a studio uh I would follow that up with strategy and ultimately talent and there's several aspects to that you know I think you mentioned being on the Pacific time zone that's incredibly helpful but you know the it starts with the schools um across Canada there's an incredible range of schools on the East Coast you'll find some great data scientists and engineers in Vancouver you're going to find great design and art there's also great uh programs for

bringing Talent into Canada which I think is important as well if you guys are thinking of coming to Canada um that touches on the talent side collaboration you know I I don't come from a tech background so in 2015 starting a gaming company I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for heads of other game studios that shared some of their knowledge and wisdom uh and that that continues today you know I think many of us in this room have probably experienced some challenging couple years and it's through those tough times where you collaborate with others to navigate the the the turbulent water and come out ahead um and that does extend you know to the government to BC um everything from tax credits which is a strategic level of just making sure that you set up your business in the right place in the right time but also you know when you when you go through challenging times I think where collaboration really comes into play is uh many studios have had to face Some Cuts and some and you know have to downsize a little bit but what that does do is it allows other Studios that are growing to support that talent pool and what I've noticed even

with our HR and with our internal Talent acquisition um we're helping each other you know even if another studio is going through some cuts my talent acquisition is trying to help place them and I think that collaboration is an incredible benefit to the ecosystem we have in BC and the reality is BC is the only Province here today representing Studios across Canada and we have come here every year so I think that just is a testament to our Global exposure yeah thank you um I think what would be ALS so helpful is maybe some of you who have Studios or individuals and you're trying to expand either your studio or expanding your own careers um all of us have a really firm are real Advocates of BC um and love what we do where we do it I think it would be helpful to understand what what are the red flags if you were going to set up somewhere else or um or you were going to say to people that were interested in BC look if you're really

tapping into a new ecosystem keeping in mind that these these intricate links across multiple sectors like the game sector to the film and indust uh film and TV animation to even uh other cultural um Industries if you're going to look at having an extended career or your studio having continual inspiration and growth what do you want look for in an ecosystem that's going to be a good warning to avoid I mean I can certainly from a government point of view tell you some of those um but as Studio leaders what do you want to share with the you know the audience here look you really want to look for this in a place look if they're doing this you want to avoid that or certainly prepare for that because it's a red flag yeah I mean I'm gonna sum it up with people you know at the end of the

day people are the most important assets the wrong word But ultimately people are the community that build the games for your company and you know people have the ability and the the flexibility now to really work globally and ultimately in BC I think one benefit we have and and perhaps you know to your point red flags if you're going to set up your your studio think about quality of life for your people Beyond compensation and and I'm biased I live in BC and I've lived many places in the world but I think BC Beyond being a a a province that offers very competitive wages we also offer a very diverse quality of life and I think that's reflected here in our Studios that if you're into mountaineering or more of a city life you know you'll find an ecosystem in Vancouver if you're more into Lake life in the summer you'll find it in the Okanagan uh or a quieter life you know with a little bit less traffic you're going to find it on the island and I think just that flexibility in the ecosystem does appeal to many people

that are coming in to make sure that they're thinking about life beyond compensation and life beyond the next job and um yeah I touch on that Emma perhaps you can touch on some other Red Flags uh that are related to um the ecosystem as far as you know access to to sort of you talked about in the Okanagan you have mature and expertise um perhaps you could talk about if you're a new studio and you're sort of looking at funding and accessing Talent the right Talent at that funding then you know what are the red flags you really want to you know that are going to show that you're going to have trouble meeting that I mean I I think you're also looking for what's going on within that Hub so if you don't have um programs if you're not seeing other people doing things you're going to you're going to struggle um and I think uh because there is a lot of crossover and talent which is a really healthy thing in in British Columbia um

but if if you if there aren't any competitors that's actually a worry because you're not going to see that crossover of talent um how do you also you were talking about the Partnerships um collaborations when you're going through tough times you you want to have somebody that you can phone up and say is it just me you know so if you if you're not seeing any competitors that's that can actually be quite a big concern um so yeah I think uh you know as you say looking for programs to to find funding that's really important you want things going on um are you going to be challenged as a leadership group you know are there are there programs that you can tap into um if you're not seeing that I would say you know again quite alarming excellent thank you I would say also Beyond programs um I look for communities um sort of Grassroots communities uh there's fewer of these since the pandemic but um you know anything like a igda group that is

active that has regular evenings or uh presentations if there's something like that in these communities then there will probably be a connected Network that's organized that can you know you can instead of calling them because you might not have their phone number go and attend these events regularly or be just part of the part of the community as a whole and uh so so I would look to I would look to those and that was a big thing when I moved from Montreal to to to BC I that was what sort of I made my choice based on I I looked at what the community community events were happening at at that time and I found actually there's there's something going on in Victoria and I I I had uh traveled to there I had family there uh before but I had never tapped into the industry or knew what was really going on there and I went to a couple of these events and realized that there were people there and that they were quite open open and and uh and shared a lot and and uh I

remember actually when I when I landed there I I went to one of these events looking for office space and uh I managed to find a company that was willing to share desks they had extra desks for us and there's been a lot of sharing so uh since then you know when we've you know strugg had struggle struggled at certain times and didn't want to let someone go because we had a great employee you know asked around and and uh some work for them temporarily while we you know got got going again and so it's really useful to have that Network in place whether it's it's a it's an official program or more more like community-driven yeah excellent so what I'm sort of hearing is that access is important so if you're a newbie coming in you can see that there's things going on that there people are approachable whether that be individually or whether it be through Community associations organizations support is really important to keep us

everyone doing well and these are definitely characteristics I see and BC from a government's point of view I would say anybody considering to extend either to move there as an individual or set up their Studio you want to look at not just their say tax credits uh that would affect your your cost Baseline but also how long of those tax credits been going on for so if a government puts in a program and it's been going on for 3 years and before before that there was another program or before that there was another program and you're not really sure if those programs are secure and stable that's something that Canada as a whole and particularly BC they have a very stable programs to support the business growth um and regardless of the political parties that come in they all share the thing that stability within the economy is really important so um one of the things I save to Studios that say come from the UK that want to set up a a team in BC and they ask about the

tax credits and compare it to say Montreal and stuff I'm like well don't forget these don't change these are these have been going on for 21 years or 17 years you can rely on these these policies which is a great stance um also I really want to talk about um Innovation so when you're part of an a mature ecosystem sometimes that can stagnate Innovation sometimes that can create extra Innovation and I'd really like you all to consider just the diversity of the digital media space in BC with the film and TV and VFX and animation and just how you how you see that has meant you've innovated and that's kind of been part of your survival and you're thriving sorry um yeah I don't know I think that more and sorry that wasn't in the notes sorry

well so I don't know if I have the exact answer to that question but um I think in our industry Global game development or you know in an Innovative industry where you're combining all sorts of different things you end up meeting other other companies other other uh individuals that are not necessarily from that space um the the film the film industry and in in Vancouver and in in general in our area I think has been pretty pretty interesting to connect to and and I'm always surprised when I hear about these these super interesting companies that are doing some virtual production set using game engines or um or combining AI with with uh with with some something else and there there's there's so much interesting Innovation going on and and it leads to interesting

experiences and I I I couldn't believe being in Victoria actually uh we had a little bit of a a dip in in between our gaming projects uh and I was looking for for something else to do I I managed to find a a company that was working on Theme Park attractions in Victoria and now now that's what we do too right and suddenly you know real-time game engines are being used in theme parks and they're being used in Cinema and they're being used used all across uh across many Industries right now and I think it's with through through that through the connections through the community Through the ecosystems that are there that connect us all to to those different different things and let us sort of be malleable as as uh as Studios and let us change and and really it's all related to it's it's super interesting I don't know if that answered the question but yeah perfectly yeah um I can try and give you a completely subjective opinion on this one yes so um I found in different regions

across maybe the the the hubs that where we've got more of an established Gaming Community you'll have more of an opinion that you can only come into games if you've been in games for a long time and there's this sort of um reluctance to let people in whereas I find in British Colombia there's um more of a you know seeing well you've done TV and you've done film surely that's you know you've got applicable skills so there is a more openness to okay what can we learn from you and what can you bring to the company and I think that's really helped us as a team where we've had people coming in and saying like why are you doing budgeting like that you know this is this is a different way of doing things so um that that's really been helpful for us yeah I really like that uh it's actually one of our mandates internally uh we hire traits over experience um we believe the people that live by our values and the willingness to grow and learn are more important than the people with the long CVS and you know it takes risk and courage to invest in people like that but you know one of our producers of our main games right now

has been with us for six years when we hired him he was a stock boy in a grocery store and that just goes to show that our willingness to commit and invest into people uh and not just look externally for people that might fit the bill I think is is a testament to the willingness and the courage to innovate but I think that exists in in BC holistically you know in order to have Innovation you have to have the courage to make investments that don't necessarily pay off right away and that's really setting the foundation for the future Vancouver does that you know obviously for myself and mobile games I think about mobile mobile games but I also look externally in what Vancouver does and how it puts itself on the map we're not a huge Province uh but we are at the cusp and Forefront of a lot of AI Innovation we're at the court at the Forefront of I mean we're Hollywood North so there's a lot of transference between different Industries there I think one of the great things you know and I think back to one of the first team members we brought on the team as well started with us in PX and moved her way up through Cs and now she's leading production for an animation studio as a

lead so I think that's great how you can move from skill to skill but also uh industry to Industry and I think our ecosystem just allows that much flexibility and I think that's a beautiful thing about our Province so I think for for those of you who are looking at ecosystems and how they can support you what I'm sort of getting from our our panelist is you know one consider something that has diversity and variety and that diversity doesn't uh you know that can be across different sectors into new sectors but how does the ecosystem that you're looking at support that that uh spread so that you can move and from what I'm hearing from them it's really because there's community and collaboration um and that ultimately that's meant to uh people thriving into new spaces um and also surviving through difficult times because there's that that support what would be really

helpful um to to maybe some individuals here is how has being how has where you're based now and even you can even draw from maybe somewhere else you've been loc located before uh Mike you you know you've been in Montreal and Emma you're from originally from the UK so feel free to draw on any experience you want but how is being in a location help you or really ramped up you know your personal growth your per in this area that might be through confidence it might be through financially but where has a place a location really helped you you know give you a rocket launch into where you are now uh perhaps I can give an example I'm not from London I'm not from the UK actually um when I come to London to do business and set up business for BC companies I love the energy of London I

love that people want to do business they want to make decisions they want to hear they say no to but I love that and I find that's like special about London and that's why I like coming here for business it's really gives me loads of energy to get things done it's really projected my career personally because I has given me confidence to talk to people different levels of different or organizations perhaps each of you could draw on something that you know a place had a characteristic that's really you know giving you confidence and um and a projection within your own your own pathway yeah I mean I wouldn't be sitting here today and we've used this word a lot but you know Community I think is such a critical piece when I started LBC Studios I don't come from a tech background and I don't know how this would have played out in a different

city different Province different country but the fact that I was able you know through reaching out and through trust and relationships in the BC ecosystem to find people that I genuinely believed were there to lift me up and not just um perhaps you know not support in the way that I needed they basically gave me the mentorship and the skills to understand how to curate teams how to focus on product how to build the company that I wanted to build how to navigate funding and and really I think that's probably why I have a deep desire to give back to the next people that are that are coming up because there's an opportunity here you know to share the knowledge that you've learned in your growth stages and to give that back to build people up so for me at this stage you know I'm here to help you know because people help me and I don't think i' I'd have that opportunity if it wasn't for the ecosystem I was in um I originally moved to cloner to work with Disney and um I really like about the um I mean the team that worked

with back then and and moving into hippo now is they everybody was just very passionate so there was a lot of heart there was a lot of like really um you felt like well and still feel like they part of a significant effort to do something which I really didn't feel when I worked in London I didn't feel like I was you know part of a bigger team I I really feels it's a nice collaborative investment um and I also say you know I I love England I love London but um you can be very judgmental about where you come from as an individual in terms of like you you'll notice britz will often weigh up like what university did you go to is it's sort of like asking what background you know what Financial background you're from where as you say you you we've had team members that we've pulled from our support teams similar to you um and moved into positions and it's really about like recognizing potential in people versus um you know putting them into a box and saying you know this is

what you do um but more like what can you do and I can see that growth potential in people which is um I I love that mind shift that you see in in BC I have a slightly different answer so I think different locations have different stories to tell and influence your the games you make or or what you want to what you want to talk about I'm thinking back as everyone was talking I was thinking about living in Montreal I was Montreal is such a musical City there's a lot of Arts um so one of the games we made back then we made a break dance game and it was very very musical moved to BC um since then we've made a game that's that takes place more in the wilderness and it's more tied to to Nature and um you know we've even included a lot of First Nations lore and and we we're in influenced by by the location also living in Victoria there's

a tie to to London obviously Victoria and and so like our next game takes place in London it's a it's a game uh the setting is regeny era London so I don't know I feel like different places influence um influence your storytelling as well and and and you can draw and Empower your your team and your your um I don't know your creativity by the place as well and also by the the culture the the the facets of the of of what the place has to offer whether it's music or art or or Wilderness thank you thank you for those very sincere answers um I all of you are in leadership um um have been successful have even won awards um perhaps you could um give some advice and encouragement of ways that people can contribute to the ecosystem there in

like how um you know how how can as a if you're a studio how can you contribute to encouraging your ecosystem to strength and grow um if you're an individual um also like yeah I can do it as a government as well but it would be really interesting like how can people look forward to invest in their ecosystems and either drawing on your own experience or even your own ambition you're currently doing you're not quite there yet and you want to you want to create this uh contribute to your community there's uh there's right now there's the global game Jam going on you know we've sponsored a community effort there in in Victoria um there's uh uh the community groups they they need material they need they need presentations um it be it's always great to have season experts or developers that are

actually um doing stuff in the industry to present at those because a lot of the the people who attend those are are students or hobbyists and haven't figured out how to break into the industry yet and they're looking for that that material and there's and there's a lot of great talent there that if you if you if you um you know contribute uh to those to those groups they'll come back and and maybe fuel your your company as well yeah could couldn't agree more actually it's one of those I think it's really dangerous to be close-minded and you and and so it's really important to get involved and to give back um and to to really look for those opportunities you know it's a more um taking active role and and finding what's out there um I'm a woman in games Ambassador so um they're very active groups in Vancouver but also online it's a very virtual presence so you you don't have to um necessarily go out of your way miles away um you can find that Community to

give back to like virtually from from your living room yeah I think there's a lot of layers to that um you know I think about think about our team we just had our annual planning last week and we talked a lot about this right you know how much people matter but how do we show up not just in business but in our community and also how do we show up for the people on our team what actually matters to them versus what just matters to us so we had a very open dialogue about that and and have reflected a lot on it you know we did an audit of our studio we roughly 35% female which is a good step but we recognized we don't have enough Engineers right and so we're actually planning how do we get out in the community and support these things you know same at a student level how do we show face to support these people that just want to establish some experiences in game studios and support them and invest the time into them and then I think beyond the industry itself you know I reflect on my own personal value as part of what we do as a studio is we ask our team members you know what charitable causes are important to them

and how do we step up as a company um we sponsor several families each year at Christmas and for myself there was a period of time in my young adulthood where I was homeless so uh we're building a foundation around making sure that you know people have roof over their head and food on their plate and in the basics so that they can actually chase their dreams so it goes so much more Beyond just the games and the business you run you live in the community and you work in the community so I think it's part of your duty to support the community well thank you all very much um again for answering this from a you know personal stance authentic you know experience and just sharing that with us has anybody got any questions um they can be either about the ecosystem or they can be just by any of the studio head to like directed about the studios uh that are represented here I'll go in I'll go with the question I'll come up um one question I've got and and maybe this is what a lot of people think about when they're moving to different uh regions is um you

talk about the ecosystem and and the place to live Canada is incredible my sister lives in Tofino amazing place I AB absolutely love that Coast as particularly um what what where where do we stand I guess the a question these days in terms of incentives because we had people this morning talking about what the UK government's kind of trying to do to help probably not enough done absolutely nothing for us by the way thank you very much our our head of our head of media and culture is busy trying to clamp the BBC today rather than coming here to help the games industry thank you Lucy Fraser anyway politics bit over but yeah what what what's the current sort of support that you know you're getting because I know it's very it's always been led the way the Canadian always been far more Forward Thinking so okay so um so each province um for those that don't know Canada is a a group of provinces they they all can make their own incentives um and then there's also a

federal incentive a federal incentive tends to be for research and development and these are all stackable with the provinces so whatever the province each individual province has you're stackable depending on the activities and it's almost always and particularly in BC uh you have to be a resident in British Colombia for the studio to be able to claim that tax um credit on the work you do the development work you do and there's certain development work that fits into that so producing games fits into the Dig digital media tax credit um then there's also one for film and animation and so depending on your activity and depending where your people are is is the incentives you get in BC it's 177% uh tax credit from BC itself you got something coming you yeah yeah I mean you know in T times those credits really help but I'll I mean I'll just brass tax to do simple

math for you um for your engineers and your QA if it's shred eligible you're looking at close to 35% of those wages covered in tax credits uh plus mmtc which is going to cover your designers and your artists and and other disciplines depending on what they're working on but overall you know from a payroll perspective it's it's not uncommon to have close to a third of your payroll covered uh through tax credits and then going beyond that you can look at funding sources as well like BC is looking at investments into the province uh that'll take an equitable position there's also Canadian grants for the type of content media might create uh there's really a lot of flexible options that go just beyond reducing your cost there are ways to actually create Partnerships depending on the products and and collaboration and Partnerships you want to create uh at a government level I think those are also incredibly important to look at as well I would say Chris you're absolutely right in that Canada does lead the way uh we are lucky that it is it is a affluent country yeah and very business pro business very supporting uh Canadian

businesses that is across Canada and some provinces have more um attractive incentives depending it's also a lot when there's there's not as many people in that region um and then also some of the provinces have grants that are issued to investors coming in BC doesn't because if you want to set up in BC you're going to win anyway um you know you're going to suc Ed with the ecosystem that exists so we really want companies that will come bring their talent bring their investment be part of a successful ecosystem um and continue our story really fantastic you you touched on other provinces potentially having some higher tax credits but it was mentioned and we've talked a lot about it how important the community and that talent pool is I'm biased but um you know BC may have a slightly lower digital media tax credit but we have a much vaster ecosystem of talent that's accessible so once you set up your

business and hopefully find success in your scaling that matters too and I I think for me that trade-off is well worth it fantastic so I can summarize this as being beautiful place to live great Community decent tax credits and I've heard that everybody that goes across gets to meet Ryan rals for lunch as well that that's unconfirmed Michael BL or Michael BL maybe maybe not maybe not true but you guys you guys are out in the main lobby so if people have had the have been sort of interested by that and quite should be about the opportunities be going to talk uh to the team out there and and uh they'll tell you more great stories about reasons to kind of come come to Canada I can V fantastic place I do live in London but family in Canada do visit there a lot so thank you very much awesome Round of Applause please for the British Columbia [Applause] panel