Panel: In-play Ads: Tips & tricks for Creating a Seamless Experience

[Music] [Music] an absolute mammoth session in play ads tips and tricks for creating a seamless experience with the incredible thought once again have a seat and if you've got questions for them for us or them where there will be a lot please don't hesitate if you're watching at home to put them into our q a channel i'll be coming around with a microphone for the main floor q a and you can hashtag pg connects all day if you're on twitter so

um i've welcomed thought already i'd also like to welcome to this stage vincent ferreira from tap nation marijuana hassan from wolves interactive digital maxon slots in voodoo thomas jonasson from goldtown games digital also we've got a couple of people maybe that are joining us on zoom as well as part of the experience potentially but i'm going to hand it over to thornow who is an absolute god thank you um right so thanks for sticking around uh we're gonna talk a lot more about in play ads and we have hey yay we have them both online as well awesome right camera's there hey guys uh so let me start by briefly introducing the panelists uh we'll do the guides on stage first so the guys on screen have some time to get the text sorted if need be but so make sense peace who are you and what do you do and where do you work

so i'm maxons i'm a monetization manager at vodou managing the part of vodous portfolio in the hyper casual and driving some growth projects such as in-game advertising implementation oh vincent you look like a tennis player but no for some reason i don't give tennis player vibes yes hopefully uh i'll give the same vibes for in advertising today uh so nice to meet you all super excited to be here again back in conference uh so i'm the vp of monetization at top nation hyper casual studio as well a publisher based in paris a very big french market is big for that so we're a team of 30 people based in paris i'm overseeing all the monetization operation as well as marketing in general so i'm super excited to be on stage here uh and traveling back to london former uh my former town because i was working for mop for two and a half years back then

before so uh very excited to be on stage with you guys yeah it's crazy this is my first time in london since 2017. it's like insane i used to be here so much so it's kind of cool okay let's go to quickly the guys at stage thomas are you with us yes hello awesome how's the weather how much snow do you have good question a lot too much is always the answer uh when you're based in in the north of sweden like we are tell us a little bit about your titles so we are a publicly traded mobile games developer and publisher based in the north of sweden as mentioned we consist of a small team 25 people mostly working from our headquarters in a small town called goliftu we self-publish arena sports games management games um

in the mid core genre and that's what we do we're also uh really a recent thing we're in invested in a joint venture uh play to earn project cool thanks thomas and then we have marawin grabbed as you can see but there was some kind of issues i think tech issues but awesome to have you online can you say something so we know that it works yes hello everyone uh this is marwan i'm very excited to be with you i did my best to be uh even play i mean physically available and attending the conference but unfortunately we had some issues with the visa so at least i can make it online it's very cool it's a little bit feedbacky for youtube as well or it's a little bit hard to hear uh what you were saying it was a little bit feedbacky yeah i can i can try my headphones just a second cool i'll talk about your company in the meantime so maravan is with the wolves interactive out of istanbul turkey they do

really really great racing games like unlimited driving road driving that kind of thing is that a good fair summary marman yeah actually this is the type of of games that we're working on we have uh currently we have eight titles in the market they are live and we have five games in the pipeline that we're working on supposedly to be launched during 2022 and uh next the following year we are focusing on on developing and publishing games we had this is basically mobile games we had one project for producing our first console game it's not finalized yet so this is working uh this is this stable uh working process and uh we are currently exploring the potential of entering the the nft and metaverse arena as well so uh we are having some uh pilot uh project to to produce our first uh play-to-earn game that includes nft and will be evolving into the middle versus

later on very cool okay guys let's talk a bit about in-game ads if there's one thing i have learned from being in the game industry is that everyone who is in the game industry at some point in time wants to be a game designer and then they realize that they're not smart enough for it at least that's what i did but i wanted to stick around so let's start talking a little bit about game design right um all of your companies have been uh running in-game ads for some time um if you were the the product owner of the game or a product designer of a game and you're like okay you're playing it what would your suggestions tips and recommendations be for where is a good place to put an ad and like how how does also the discussions go about it within the studios and i mean it's a little bit different right you guys have a lot of third-party studios left and right managing that but could you tell me a little bit about that and we'll start with the guys on stage sure so it's i guess it changed a lot also by the category of the games

if we take example of driving or racing games for sure there's a constant progression uh where you have a lot of opportunity to see side road billboards for examples of things like that but with hyper casual it depends having a runner can for sure help our static screen becomes a bit more difficult to integrate in game ad so we really have to feel the balance the user experience on that aspect for sure nowadays with interstitial and rewarded video we take a lot of time of the user outside of the gameplay itself at some of the time playing so those in-game ads really become as a savvy and useful ad format because they really don't interrupt that user experience we'll look at different examples the first one we integrated was a webmaster like a spidermaster game which was very useful to integrate because of course you're progressing through the city there are many buildings you're jumping from to the others and and that

looks and feel becomes very natural because why not in spider-man you see all those billboards i mean you all been to picadilly circus integrating that into the building really makes a real life experience and matching the environment um so you really have to adapt to that experience so that the users feel like it becomes very natural and who knows it can maybe even makes the game even more realistic because working in a town with no ads versus working in town with real-time ads really makes you feel and be part of that of that action movie so those are examples you want to look at some games don't match for example a couple of our titles sneaker art or ice cream are very screen fixed on a single product and you don't have this progression into games into a 3d environment so the more 3d and space progression you have for the users for the character to have the more chances you have to place those billboards those screens to follow that users are appearing at a certain time different size depending on how deep is the gameplay and the 3d integration i'll say those those are important facts

cool voodoo what have you guys learned um definitely agree with uh review vince so you you want to create this native feeling uh whether it is with beavers in a city or with a balloon or a plane showing an ad in the sky um when you're playing on at the beach for instance um another recommendation for me would be to also listen to your in-game advertising partners they are working with a lot of different publishers or studios they have more experience than you guys and me so feel free do not hesitate to ask them and to do numerous ways and back between your in-game advertising partner and your studios vadoo is a publisher so we mainly work with external studios and we want them to be happy with the project and the process so another thing is you want this native feeling but you also want to be as close as possible to other to a drag-and-drop solution

when thinking about ads on ad monetization you don't want to spend that much time because in the end what is the more most important is you know the play time the retention that other players are happy and the studios you're working with are happy with your processes um so yeah feel free to reach to your in-game advertising partners look and play to over gen games and see how they integrate it and just collect the best you can from everything yeah oh well so good you basically just defined what my job is and that's like finding people who do it well and then find gay people of similar games and like hey look what these guys did why don't you do the same uh thomas you're doing a sports game and you kind of have a static screen right you're showing the sort of a hockey rink and you put the ads there can you tell us a bit about that and like from a design perspective and how that was working yeah yeah so we have um we implemented these types of ads only one of our games

so far and that's the hockey game uh world hockey manager uh and like you say the the whole match scene is uh pretty static to the um it's a it's an image of an arena and you see the simulation going on and what we discovered is that our audience really is primed from media in arena sports overall so they they've to us it's more it's almost create creating more immersion than than taking away from the immersion of the experience in um in in putting these types of ads in our in our match sequence so what we did uh just as an mvp test was to implement two digital billboards behind the perimeter of the match so that's the way it looks today in the in the game cool thanks and then marvin you guys made some so smart

have a driving game where you can drive a challenge or they're 3d you can do things uh and that's the place where you mainly have put the ads and i think it's because you're use utilizing what i call dead space that's just there otherwise so can you tell us a little bit about that making backward thoughts around adding the ad units to that placement okay i think i figured out your question i did not hear you well because uh that voice was cracking uh from time to time but uh yeah let me explain so we tried different uh ad format we tried the interstation we tried rewarded the videos and we tried banners and so on and so forth but usually we received some

negative feedback from from users that their experience is interrupted uh while watching the ads provide while being pushed to watch ads two years ago something we thought about creating our own ads and approaching different companies so that we can sell them some advertising spaces inside our games and we can create or we can have some some direct deals with them and then uh very very shortly we we started to see in-game ads invading the market so currently what we're doing is that we did the integration with adverti and by the way we tried some other uh companies as well the integration went very smoothly all what we do is that we decide on the spaces that we need the ads to appear on uh whether it's a billboard or wizard a place inside the garage where we show our cars uh the buildings the the sidewalks the the moving cars in the

traffic as well so uh it's it's very easy very simple for us to to do that using unity we we specify the the placements or the the positions where we would be displaying the ads and then after the the integration we did with adverti it's automated i mean the the ads will be filled then very very smoothly and seamlessly so that's uh that helped us a lot providing uh a better user experience uh not interrupting the the the gameplay of the the players and at the same time raise their satisfaction and raise the the uh the the ranking or the the reviews in in our app stores cool so then let's get down to the nitty-gritty uh money revenue impact on the business again this is again business conference um vince you guys have been doing it the longest uh at least with us out of the the four companies here

um what what kind of revenue impact is this delay like i said in my presentation five to fifteen percent 15 being a bit of an outlier five again i'm a salesperson how are things working for you guys like what is the revenue impact uh sort of what does this additional what's the impact on your company of this additional revenue stream yeah for sure i mean it's very interesting because we first look at without considering the revenue at all of the in-game advertising partner we first wanted to observe like the retention impact and is it impacting the other traditional ad format so there was a lot of a b test on that period during two to four weeks making sure we don't impact the retention the cohorted revenue users are still the same we're pleased very pleased enough to see that it's maintaining the same level so it doesn't have directly an impact on the user experience as long as the product is well integrated so that was quite a good satisfaction

and then we started looking into the additional revenue drove by those formats positively enough we are uh surprised to watch in the same range that you mentioned some gains being by plus four percent and the highest we've gone up to nine percent uh on in-game advertising so it's definitely known uh negotiable and and on the we cannot let that aside on the market plus plus five to ten percent is huge for us to redistribute into ua user acquisition uh and try to integrate that into the ltv of our users um nowadays on our biggest games our in-game advertising partner are representing up to five percent of the total uh ad revenue of the game uh so for a format that didn't existed before uh five percent of that share of wallet is uh is definitely an interesting part um of course there's a big room of progression i think those formats still don't have the same feel rate as we can see on on other placements so that leaves us an encouraging room of of progress for

future in terms of uh ad revenue and char wallet but definitely positive abdo and ltv impact yes cool and then make sense um you guys have at least to my knowledge and i'm pretty sure i well i don't know everything but i would be surprised if any company has done more testing than you guys have i'm always so nervous because i don't want to piss you guys off you're so big and powerful so i don't know what i can say and can't say but you know you guys have done a lot of research you've done a lot of studies the more you can share to the industry at large of course helps everyone but what have your learning's been and kind of where are you guys at with in-game ads overall um so so i i couldn't tell you exactly what's the uh uh what i could say is that currently we are seeing in-game advertising kind of less intrusive banner formats with slightly higher cpms

as uh vassan said we are expecting the fury to grow in the near future thanks to you know advertisers being learned that in-game advertising is now a thing and that you've got ways to to monetize through fun to show as for native feelings um in terms of revenue impact definitely the first thing you want to do is to test the different sdks that the different in-game advertising are proposing to you uh not taking advantage of vince mentioned not taking into account the revenue it should be only incremental so first of all you want to not have any negative impact whether on your play time your retention if you have some that is mainly due given our experience whether by a bad in-game advertising integration within the game breaking the user interface or it is a too heavy sdk demand for low end devices

let's say in india or in russia you can have negative performances you want this sdk to be only incremental so before thinking about like running proper tests and looking at the revenue you need to fix this so iterate understand go to the bottom of it talk to your in-game partner [Music] ask them to change their sdk if you need so that it fits your processes and your expected uh results and all in all that's a really nation industry i believe everyone can grow together and learn from each other so do not hesitate to open the discussion yeah no i mean it is a really good point right and that's also what what makes what makes it really fun and circling back to my presentation similar to rewarded video right we're not if we look at in-game ads as a separate industry it's like it's not a zero-sum game meaning if i take a cookie from you you have one cookie less like it is it is a game that is expanding since

there's more money coming in there's more it's like when you blow up a balloon right it's growing in every kind of direction and it's very similar there for sports games thomas we like them of course because they're a very easy fit when you talk to advertisers it's super easy to them to go and say okay you have a ice hockey game well you know who likes ice hockey right you can define the audience which is much easier than to do with a hyper casual game but with a hyper casual game then you say hey do you want to reach everyone and say yeah it works that way but so yeah what has this experience been for you guys thomas our experience is pretty similar to what you guys have been discussing uh and we also expected to to internally to to become a bigger part of monetization in our games as we we're launching a few new games this year and we are implementing um the solution to to our football game as well this year

and of course it's we've done mvp tests like a proof of concept type of thing uh i i pretty much expect when when we implement it to be more looking like a pro professional arena sports arena more like what you will see in nfl or those kinds of arenas then we expect it to have quite a major impact on on revenue cool and marawin well same question to you it gets a little bit repetitive but we of course we want to hear as well like what has the experience been at will's interactive in this regard yeah well in terms of revenue i think we achieved more or less the same percentage so it's something between four percent and eight percent uh so it fluctuated depending on uh the uh which game we we worked on and which market uh we were spending more in terms of user acquisition which brings me to uh one point uh

related to the the raising the demand and raising the geographical uh distribution of uh the in-game ads from from our experience we can see that ecpm is is different from one country to another which is very logic uh however the the area for improvement would be raising awareness about the in-game ads across different uh advertising companies and in in different locations so what what's happening currently is that uh tier one countries are the main focus and this is where we see revenue coming from i believe that if we exert some effort and if we raise the the awareness of the community or the the ecosystem with regards to the in-game industry and the the the advertising inside the game i believe that we can easily achieve 15 revenue revenue increase so this is what we are looking forward to we believe that there should be some some effort in

terms of educating uh the advertising companies about the in-game ads and creating more demand so that we can have more supply and more higher ecpm as well yeah yeah no i mean and that's also something that that we have to not educate but we have to talk to the sort of game industry about because people are so used to performance revenue which just again like it works in such a different way if you have a if you have a cpi target of 40 and you can buy for 39 well then you spend basically unlimited and it just keeps rolling whereas this fluctuates a bit more and also reach it becomes an important factor we're gonna i'm gonna put you guys through one more question then we're gonna see if we have anything from the audience but i would like you to try and predict the future a little bit look a little bit forward um particularly when it comes to like this becoming more like general in-game or like rewarded videos etc all

of that like how do you think it's to develop like it will there be mediation or is everyone going to try and build their own waterfall and then give up and do that or like where do you guys think it is heading uh and let's start with the guys on the zoom this time arvan you can keep going like dude are you waiting for mediation or like just to have that to boost or like what's the feeling around that that's uh that's a spot on yeah uh as i mentioned we tried different uh companies or different uh advertising advertising companies for providing us with uh in-game ads uh we saw some advantages and disadvantages across the different players available in the market but the one thing that we are missing is the mediation so we could only deal with one player at a time we could not have the advantage of putting them together and let them compete so that we can get we can come to the best performance uh just like

what we're doing using mediation in terms of rewarded video and interstitial ads so that's something that we are missing the mediation another thing that we we do that it can develop is related to the different formats of uh the in-game ads so currently we're talking about uh the normal or the the standard the placements that we have uh i was wondering or i'm wondering if there would be the possibility of having interactive ads or 3d ads which brings us to the next step of invading the metaverse uh arena as i mentioned so uh i would say that the the the development of in-game ads would definitely be looking forward to uh different formats that would help us have more interactive ads as well as having something that we can utilize

when when we have the metaverse games call thomas your thoughts from the north of sweden yeah my thoughts are pretty much the same mediation should be a natural thing to follow um and of course consolidation it's an early market still and uh we haven't seen the beginning of consolidation yet i think and also what likely is to happen in my opinion is that like with all forms of advertising um there's always a focus on personalizing things more and being more relevant to consumers um like you said uh with our games we know these people are sports fans in some way but it's going to be [Music] kind of interesting to see how the personalization journey is going to go for this kind of advertising also thinking um with all the with all the

privacy uh privacy initiatives coming from the platform holder for example uh how how will like traditional personalization is based on single user data collection how will it work in the future and yeah it can go a lot of ways but i think that the business is definitely as a whole um you know on a yesterday on the starting steps of a big year okay thanks uh vince i'll go to you and i'll reconnect to something that marvin said you guys have been running multiple sdks in the same game right several providers anything you can share from your experience there yeah for sure i mean i think there is this aspect uh as those new formats in game ads they're still a very little number of players it's still very new for brands for performance advertiser even though none of those ads are clickable yet so performance is yet to come so we're mostly talking about brands so for sure the fill rate is something that we all look up at improving uh working nowadays

with mediation on traditional format with 25 partners now we're about five six seven uh in-game at partner so the best way if we don't have any mediation existing yet what i feel will have to complement is having different partners either on different placement in the game or the different partners on the same placement but having different cohorts of users so 50 percent of the users will only see one partner 50 percent will see the other partners it allows you to help complement the revenue and and hopefully push a little bit the field rate uh on that side um so for sure mediation will be very uh useful uh tool to help us really maximize this because i think that's at the moment the demand that is still has to improve uh that say we can always find alternative solutions i think every partner is proposing a nice way to backfill the ads so this in-game ads become a new mean for cross-promotion for example uh have a fall back into your own games have them rotating so you can circulate the users

uh between your your own games we all know cross promotion is a big thing as we all try to to crack so at least this gives us an opportunity on that side um and in terms of future format we may be looking at the next step of uh personalized advertising and really integrate it to the game um so we're thinking for example i think the example of ice cream as i mentioned was hard to have a standard format but maybe something will look now next step we'll have uh mcdonald's or bennett jerry's on the cone itself rotating so it becomes more of a branded game in a way so those are things like in the future we can look at within in-game advertising uh and getting more more integrated but but as of now for sure there is always opportunities to try to maximize those placements play competition between players uh i think another way that we found out was quite useful to help implement increase that feel rate is now you have very adaptative formats so it's not anymore just a banner or 350 billboard is that depending on the

demand and the type of campaign they have they will be able to adapt this ad format so if it's a billboard on the streets you can see a banner you can see a vertical format you can see a square um and slowly we're also looking at uh enabling videos uh so i think that can really become very very attractive at format for a brand advertiser to penetrate further those in-game in-game placement and in-game audience for sure yes awesome and voodoo final statements so i'm not going to talk about performances i totally agree with uh with what has been said by by everyone make sense uh no no no it's uh definitely we need the mediation uh what i would say is um we want also the tools to [Music] to move to a way where it should be almost a drag-and-drop solution um at vaudo's we created a scalable process that is

almost a drag-and-drop one but if you want to start talking to more to smaller studios with less people and less tech guys you know to to do this integration um i think that that could be a blocker because it is still quite demanding in terms of resources and when you compare you know the time versus the value added you want to be positive right and sometimes given the current market condition it's not so you don't want your studio to lose time on this kind of you know ad format if this doesn't bring higher value than if he was you know really focusing on the product update that will bring your 10 percent atv or stuff like that so definitely just like alternative costs like it's not like it's losing your money but you could have made more money doing something else exactly just scared me for a bit there yes yes this is no it's a yeah you can always get you know a lot of higher ltv uplift just with product updates and pure focusing purely on the game

experience i can complement my accents for sure those are really innovative advanced formats getting into the gameplay totally different than interstitial rewarded banner so the technical work is even more advanced and more leading but they're also more they're a younger network so for sure there's room uh for for much smoother experience improvement when it comes to technical integration uh drag and drop and making sure ads are displayed in the best way we have to maximize but that's that's quite of an opportunity this way to see the future is uh have a great chance and great space to progress foreign cool thank you do you have any questions from the audience online or in person for this awesome panel yep i'm coming with the mic hi everyone just a quick question around what you'd like to see in respects to new formats within the in-play space is there anything that you have like kind of on a wish list like

you would like a performance driven ad unit within the native space or a video unit or you know what is it that you guys would like to see as an evolution guys zoomers anyone want to say something about the or did you hear the question ah okay yeah yeah yeah sure uh sort of lagging behind there uh i'm a bit slow um yeah yeah but like you guys mentioned um more dynamic surfaces uh video of course uh different formats and also and that that's a really really good input a smaller threshold for smaller compa smaller companies should have an easier time to implement these kinds of solutions um we don't we our experience is that it's really a low effort kind of thing uh compared to a lot of other solutions that we use but that's not the case for everyone

okay uh one thing i wish i mean we're going to is there's all the questions about clickable ads as well on in-game you know it's really appearing different place of the of the gameplay and you don't want that's why branding i think is good here because you don't have to click on ads to to have a good results uh but when it comes to uh for example we mentioned the backfield the cross promotion of your own game then that's a possibility where you would like to make only some ads clickable which would be your own game so the churn rate wouldn't be impacting user because they will remain into your company cycle whereas all of the ads that are from external providers and excellent advertisers ideally maintain them as non-clickable there will be some small features where you think like in complement with video of course you can play on a different ratio to uh to look at a good matching with everything you're what you're expecting in terms of performance and user experience yes

would like to ask a pointed question i know i would um i've got a question for you and that is the metaverse and advertising the metaverse one of my big kind of things at the moment that i get asked a lot of questions about because i work in the metaverse is about why is it when we open up a copy of vogue we get advert advert advert in the magazine but no one is doing anything at all either in games for long periods of time don't forget that a lot of people are spending eight hours a session inside a game experience so both the question is about the game experience on console or whatever but also what is the experience going to be like in the metaverse as a whole do you think and will it be natural and seamless or is it going to be pretty jarring to start off with i haven't seen a lot of it so far i mean i i think

looking at it from the industry point of view it's going to take some time because the metaverse needs to materialize yeah it becomes a materialized verse or so i mean it needs to be like beyond i mean again it depends on how you define it right it's roblox the metaverse because if so like yeah you can go for roblox and do things there um awareness at the moment though yeah yeah and then yeah but but i mean then we have the the thing that the advertising industry is it's very big it's very slow moving and it's fairly conservative uh even if you look at a format like rewarded video which should be perfect for many video advertisers i would think like say if you have a movie trailer right you're launching the new whatever like it's it's such a perfect audience channel market fit you know that it has been but it's still like it's taking them time which is why i was mentioning my presentation so much of the money spinning around this ad company game companies buying ads in other game companies so like it's the cycle goes um so i mean it's yet to be seen i'm i'm i

don't know really truly because i still don't really understand what the metaverse is but we'll have to see a beer later and we'll talk about it what do you think about um or also collectively what do you think about other verticals outside of the traditional advertising models getting into this space so i just talked about brand awareness you know seeing ralph lauren for example or the gucci game garden in things like roblox that's really just brand awareness but we want to potentially make advertising sort of better coming from different verticals and i'm not really seeing any other verticals outside of just pure entertainment like sports or other games that you can play or other stuff so when do we think that this experience would be a bit more seamless also august oh no i don't know i mean there's technical challenges this

market adoption like there's at least i don't really do you have a desire to see other verticals advertising in this space or are you just really happy with the passive income coming from the regular entertainment channels and the you know accelerators and stuff well i think everyone wants more revenues right and again opening up more taps increasing the different channels where the revenues stem from highly important how to reach you i mean that's the thing so do you see yourself going to paris fashion week for example yeah well i mean i mean all of the i'll let you but like all of the companies on our side of the table like we have sales team we have alex over there he runs around talks to agencies brands and like there's hundreds of people doing this work but it it but it is challenging because either you go to an agency and they don't have direct control of the money or you go to a brand and then all of a sudden you have a regional buyer for benelux but then if you want to buy a global like this challenges right but they're overcomable

if that's a word manageable challenges from our side at least i would say i mean jumping on that question of fashion brands for example i think a lot of brands didn't want to be i have associated with the forced a bit user experience you can see on interstitial uh on other formats but with uh native and in-game ads now it's much more uh seamless uh and and positive experience for the users and we have seen that you mentioned the metaverse with adidas with a lot of brands now really rushing and jumping to the metabolis so i think that is giving us a good way for in-game ads into mobile games as well because now they feel like well it's the same kind of experience users spending time uh into uh into a world of gaming uh where we can see those ads and we've seen some in-game ad networks already entering the metaverse with those integrated uh ad format and billboard so i think now it's really making the world is a whole entertainment in gaming so no brands is able not to avoid it anymore so i think

this is very soon becoming a more common trend we can expect for for sure any more questions yep here welcome hi yeah i have a question following up your pardon i have a question to follow up what you've just said uh about the metaverse and so on how it goes and grows maybe slow and the vincent comments about the brand guys getting into that i would like to know what do you think how do you see the picture of commercial relationship or any purchasing power commerce relationship in this field and infrastructure within the game yes difficult question right but um i i think it depends a lot on if you're calling it like g-commerce or something like that right i think it has a lot to do with the contextuality again if i'm making up words sorry for that uh the the or the like the contextual part of the game right do you want to be oh yeah

and then it comes also into consumer psychology like are you in a state of mind willing to make a purchase do you want to interrupt your gameplay experience to go through and do those things uh so i'm certain there's there's a market for it and there's companies out there doing it as well i'm guessing maybe you're with one of them have you guys tried an energy commerce or any like actual sales within the game of other product like i mean basically i mean i don't want to diminish it right but it basically becomes affiliate in a sense but we are always looking uh you know to the state-of-the-art technology to offer to our studios it depends a lot on the game uh i'll take again an example of some apps we have but we have sneaker art or ice cream those are really products that are talking to certain brands and that's when the further integration when it comes to e-commerce when it comes to

going beyond and selling that product or the opportunity to the users i could picture very well mcdonald for mcflurry or other type of brands like ben jerry's willing to have this kind of voucher outside of the game when our users love to making ice cream why not driving them to stir with some kind of more integrated partnerships name with sneaker art for example at some point the brands will see that many users it's a way to integrate the product directly in the game so the door for us is open i think they are curious about hyper casual and and the target the wide audience he has around the world so for sure it's a few matters of time before this uh further integration comes i believe great way to end it thank you very much please give for these guys you've been absolutely splendid [Music]

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