Panel: From Transactions to Relationships: How Studios Are Redefining Player Ownership.

Today we're going to be talking about relationships, y'all, and how complex relationships are, but obviously from the lens of consumer relationship, right? So, our our talk today is about moving from transactions to building more sustainable long-term value with

your players, and how you do that through identity, community, engagement. And instead of focusing on installs and transactions, how do you truly get to know your consumer? And how do you build that long-term loyalty and sustainability with them? So, I'm going to dive right into it. We only have 40 minutes with you all here today, but it's going to be time well spent. We have some heavy hitters on the stage, and we're going to go around and just do a quick round of intros on how we got here. I'll start. My name is Ola Doku. I have been in the tech industry for about 20 years, most recently at Scopely, where I did about a 6 and 1/2 year run. I started off in the ad monetization product team, and then I moved over to direct to consumer. I've been at Exola about 6 months now, and been super focused as the VP of strategic insights and market in being more

data-driven and being more confident in scaling the direct-to-consumer business with everything that's going on in the ecosystem, the regulations. How do you get ahead of the curve and how do you ensure that you are optimizing the investments that you've made through your direct-to-consumer business? I'll hand it over to Daniel and then we'll just go down the line and do a quick intro.
Hello. Good morning, Gordon. Can you hear me well? Cool. So, I'm Daniel Madrid. I live in Paris. I am the co-founder and the chief growth officer of Dott Zeko. Uh probably Dott Zeko needs also introduction by itself. So, um Dott Zeko is a platform for real-world environmental rewards. We do anything that is environmental that we can measure, quantify, and monitor like planting trees, cleaning plastic from the ocean, saving sea turtle babies, restoring coral reefs, and many

more. Uh and our business partners, our clients, which are predominantly uh gaming studios, are using these real-world environmental rewards as a way to incentivize desired actions. So, it's all about purpose-driven engagement and retention. Uh and that's what we've been doing for the last 4 years and a half. Uh very proud to be working with the largest gaming studios out there from Scopely to SciPlay to Rovio, Supercell, and many more. Thank you.
Rafael.
Go, yeah. Well, um I'm Rafael Morgan, VP of partnership at Crazy Games. Um Crazy Games is one of the largest web gaming platform in the world. Um we we have more than 3,000, 4,000 games. Um and we work with a lot of different developers from uh and publishers from outside from small indies to to even like big big mobile

publishers that joined the web. Um, I I work with web games specifically since over 15 years. So, I've seen all all different times from uh the dark ages after whatever Steve Jobs did a great job killing um flash and everything and everything migrating to mobile. Um, and now actually we're seeing a lot of things coming back to the web. Um, and that's why I think we're you know, we're we're interesting um point of the industry at the moment where we can talk to different different different companies like Xsolla potentially not Seiko. Um, yeah. So, that's
Hi, good morning everybody. Uh my name is Oren. I'm in the gaming industry for more than a decade now. Uh been to Playtika and SciPlay building uh platforms for monetization, marketing inside these games.

Um, DTC was also part of the platforms that I've built, which was a very interesting one. This is how we met. And for the past 18 months I led SciPlay into AI, which was very interesting journey for me. And for the past months I'm acting as an independent advisor looking at everything from the front row seat.
All right, thank you. Thank you. All right, so to set the stage I'm going to ask a question for all three of you um about just what you think the industry is still getting wrong on how to build true sustainable connection with the consumer. Start with you, Daniel.
Okay, I think that today um most studios are still very much focused on on channels and considering probably all the whole concept of the player

ownership as being access to them to the different channels. So, I think that what what is still lacking is the involvement of of the players to being to participants beyond the game itself alone. I would say that's the main point.
And what about you, Rafa?
Well, I think we're we're kind of like in a very interesting time because there's so much change happening like in different generations. I feel like you know, sometimes we we would I think like a lot of companies they actually got very comfortable over time because they're very successful, but there is a sort of like I see a bit of a disconnection now with this new generation that's coming. You know, a lot of them I see this on my kids for instance like playing Roblox and how they actually communicate, how they

how they interact with video games, which is very different than older audience. I think we're getting better now, but but I do I do feel like you know, especially when I look at at my kids how they how they interact with games, how they actually interact with their friends when they're playing games. And I think that you know, there's a lot of safety conversation happening at the moment, a lot of changes and and I think we we still have to catch up with a lot of things.
Apparently, UGC definitely takes it to a whole 'nother level and everything in between on user-generated content, but yeah, definitely. What about you, Oren?
Yeah, I'm I'm looking at it in a different angle like more from the platform side. Um I think uh relationship with the player is on the emotional side. Like I think that relationships, when it's built correctly, if the user uninstalled the game or the game is missing, he will

feel it. Like he's missing. He feels that he wants to connect back to the game, to create something, to feel important. Depends how the strategy with building a relationship is working in that game. Uh and I think that a lot of games are trying to build stuff on their own that they can buy. And it shifts their focus from what they're best at, which is building the games. And And we see it in the payment industry. Like a lot of uh publishers wants to build them by the by by themselves instead of just getting it as a service. And I think that it's a big miss. Um instead of just focusing on your player and focusing on your game mechanics.
Speaking of downloads, Rafa, you you spent over a decade working on platforms that installation is not necessary, right? Like the player friction is essentially zero. You don't have to download a file. You just click and play, right? So, what

what do you studios consistently underestimate when it comes to psychological and operational reality of keeping the player's attention?
Um I think on the web, it's like it's exactly that. That we don't have a friction, right? So, this is the biggest advantage. So, there's from the from the technical perspective, um obviously you want to optimize your game and make sure that the player really can start immediately, right? Today the technology is evolving both from the browser both from game engines. So, you you actually take away um like a lot of this friction that prob- I mean the past um it was it was more challenging to do and and then I think for for the for the players the mentality is that they want to start it immediately but you know if if monetization is not set correctly things are not in the right place they might leave again as fast as they come. So it's a bit of a different I would say environment there's a lot of advantage

but of course like with everything you know in Steam you have to download a big big build if you want to play a PC game. So and you have this installed in your machine but versus on the web you don't. So so it's I think it's important to to actually show volume to get the player immediately inside the game and actually show that there is a journey that he has to go through so he can come back tomorrow and I think that those are some of some of the things that can help with the retention right have to set up a clear goals give enough rewards for the players and and yeah so we see on crazy games we're growing a lot because we're actually really pushing for this type of experience we work together with developers in the more educational side about understanding how how how the web works we wrote this a lot of guides that we exchange and we you know we create something with benchmarks on the platform so that gives them indicators as well how they're doing with their game and obviously there's direct player feedback right so even a

rating but also emails and and we feel we feel like you know the experience is getting better and better on the web and we're able to we're able to translate a lot of new things now that before was not even possible on the web right this even with like there's some breakthroughs like in the in the in the browser development with WebGPU which is coming to reality even more so we're talking about like really nearly you know PC graphics running on the browser which I have seen some some really nice stuff. So, I think this is a sort of experience and actually um there are the the the things that you have to consider once once you are making a game for the web.
Huh. Definitely. Daniel, for you engagement is truly led by a purpose-driven ethos engagement at Dats.ed.ego. Now, I want to get into how it can always and it can sometimes feel

general public a bit performative if it's not done authentically. So, let's talk a little bit about how you help studios with the environmental reward programs that players actually have to trust and value.
So, so I would say that when you're adding a layer of purpose in the game it's very important not to not to manage it as marketing campaign but rather as a player experience. So, I would say that the first thing is about understanding your audience, your players. Understand what really motivates them. And there are a lot of ways to do that. If you don't know it, you can always survey them, you can check it to your social media channels with your VIPs. Understand what are the causes that they care about and don't just lend something for them. I would say that's the first thing to get right.

Then also very important to keep in mind that we're talking about gaming, entertainment, escapism. People are here to have fun. Maybe to run away from all what's going on in the day-to-day. They don't want their levels of anxiety to be raising. So, it's very important to focus on on positive outcomes. On um on positive outcomes basically. Uh try to avoid the negative things. So, for example, we are very focused on environmental impact. We're not talking about climate change. We're talking about planting trees, which is a universal value. Cleaning plastic from the oceans is restoring coral reefs. So, I think that part is very important. And the last one is about really getting the trust of the players, and that can be done only through

through proof and transparency. So, make it very clear what the player needs to do in order to unlock this real-world environmental impact. Make it as tangible as possible. That's also why we quantify the impact. We're not talking just about reforestation. We're talking about, "Hey, thank you for planting one tree." Or thank you for protecting 1 m square of wildlife habitat. And we're able even to give a steady communication with the player about the impact afterwards, even many months after unlocking the impact. So, yeah, I would say that transparency and proof of doing it's a key.
Yeah, that's that's really spot-on. Orin and I were just talking earlier about the need for entertainment will never go away, regardless of what's happening to you politically or on the macro global scale. Um I think taking that positive-oriented

spin to it um is super critical, right? Um You go to It's very easy to go down the rabbit hole of being negative, um but when you kind of flip it on its head and focus on I like that concept of not talking about climate change, but talking about planting trees. Like it's There's a very nuanced to to that that just shifts the conversation. All right, I'm going to kick it back to you on um trust and loyalty. So, just still pulling on that thread. So, you've built loyalty programs and real-time monetization tools at Playtika at a massive scale. What's the difference between loyalty mechanic that genuinely builds relationship versus one that masks churn?
So, I'll start with the churn part first. Um I think uh if the user is only used to what's in it for me, like what the benefits do I get, what discounts do I get, what treats do

I get, it will prevent churn, but it's not the only one that you the only thing that you can rely on. Um you need this emotional connection that I've mentioned. You need the user to feel important. And what I've seen in Playtika and few other places that I've been to is that connection to a tier, a character that you will nurture, um an account manager that knows your name and you know hers, somebody that you know, I I've I've I've heard a story about an account manager that noticed a change in the pattern of behavior of one of his uh players, and he contacted him to ask what's going on, and he heard like something happened in his family, and you know, the the conversation just shifted. And instead of offering him

like a discount or a sale or something, suddenly he asked, "How is he's going?" And like the emotional connection in that, it's just more than just the mechanic of the game. And I think that today, and I will shift to my passion about AI, it's very easy and very accessible to get all this information about your customer from all the data that you have in your organization, and you can just scale the amount of personalization that you are giving to the user in your approach to him to them through in-app messages, through push notifications, or through the regular chat messages that the account managers are sending to them.
Yeah. Absolutely. I'm I'm going to stay on you for a second and talk a little bit about guardrails and principles. So, as we get to know more and more of our consumers, we're getting more and more data collected, some of which is PII. Um what kind of principles have you applied when

designing monetization and loyalty mechanisms that make sure you feel fair, respectful to the player, and protected?
Yeah. Yeah, that's a tough one. Um I think that if you're transparent with your player, uh if the player can see his transactions, if something suddenly changes, then you contacted him and like I can give you like personal example. Uh my son uh purchased in a day $2,000 in one of the games. Yeah. He's not doing it usually. Uh the fact that I was approached and like because something was changing in the
Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's a great feeling. Like and it happened like a week ago. And we are talking about relationship

and payment today. Um [snorts] so, I think that these guardrails are very important, and also fraud detection, It's something that is highly critical to make your business work properly. Yeah.
100% and a lot of bad players out there and for a for a for a vendor or for a studio to come first to you to say, "Hey, we noticed something is wrong with your transaction." As opposed to it being the other way around where you're now reporting it, makes a huge difference. For sure. And if it goes back to what Daniel was saying about just transparency and visibility and building trust. If I'm going to get a little detailed here with you um and it's going to get really interesting for you. You sit at a very chaotic intersection where you broker and you balance the needs of a game studio,

demands of advertisers and expectations of players. When these three interests inevitably conflict, what relationship do you protect first? And how do you maintain your platform's integrity?
Well, they're all three very important right apart but but I think without the players, there is no need for a game, right? So, I think obviously the player is the most important thing. We we have some guidelines you know for ads implementation um and obviously the developers um you know they they're also very important part because they're they they don't provide you the supply for the game. So, they're all interconnected but I think it all starts with the players. If we we have like 55 million monthly active users now. So, it's a lot of it's a lot of people to care, right? Um and uh so, obviously adjusting, you know, all possible uh things at the same time um I think it creates a healthier uh ecosystem, right? We

we do have advertisement partners that keep coming back to us as well trying to run special campaigns cuz they know our audience is you know it's a pretty nice you don't find this everywhere. Um so but obviously sometimes we do get emails from players oh there's too many ads or things like this. So so we have some safeguards on the website itself where we control this part of things. Um and obviously I mean not only on the ads but also speaking about monetization uh monetization in app purchase I mean we also we also make sure that you know we don't have something that's that's too aggressive. Um because in the end right what we want is to make this user come back um and he feels safe and he feels like their parents feels he feels safe to to allow them to play. Um so we have quite some controls as well in the sort of content that we bring to the platform. Um so we're we're like a pegi 12 platform so you will not see something too aggressive for instance.
Yeah. Definitely. I mean that's a massive

library of just games and audience. When when studios bring a title to Crazy Games um often their their biggest fear is not just external market competition but being cannibalized by similar titles that are living on the same home page. How does your algorithm balance feeding like viral hits with protecting discovery of new or niche studios that aren't cannibalized by clones?
So I mean from from everything I think Crazy Games is quite fair because it's all engagement based is right so the player we let the players decide. Um we do have some ways that whatever we're releasing new content that the enough data is pushed enough players and and so we can collect enough metrics but over time you would recommendation will know your profile the more you play and then we'll be serving um the the right content for you right? It's it's a very complex topic not much my area but we do have a lot of discretion internally about how uh know

what is the correct way about releasing a game, what's the correct way about like, you know, showing an update for an older game to a player. Um so, I think that it's it's a it's something that I think you we're always trying to make it better. Um and uh and I think like with 55 million what we learned well, what I observed from Crazy Games is that there is there is enough players um you know, for a lot of games, right? For the good games. They will always found an audience. Um and I think that's that's very important cuz I think even today if you are I mean, a young founder uh something that I'm really proud of, actually, is that if you look at the highest top 20 on on Crazy Games, a lot of them are like founders under 25, which, you know, it's a it's a best place for you to start, I would say, these days on the web. And we take care that, you know, you don't need marketing, you don't need you don't need to to do UA. We take care for you of this part.
Yeah. You know, brand is such a powerful thing, right? So, why don't you help us

understand from your perspective um what you've learned about what makes consumers willing to engage with a brand?
So, um I think that, you know, to create a true engagement, to create a very strong relationship, you need to like, you will win relationships when you're able to to turn your players or or to talk to your players' identities. When you can do that, uh when you can create um an experience that feels bigger than themselves, bigger than the game, something that they are proud about, something that is just not merely entertainment, but it's something that they can feel proud about, tell their friends, tell their families.

We do see that when we let people do good in an easy way, they will hold it with both hands. So, I think it's really about letting them do good and feel good about themselves. And yeah, I think it's a very powerful way to to be able to engage with your players beyond the game itself, talking about their values, their motivations, their aspirations as human beings.
Mhm. Definitely. Oren, what data and signals do you look at to know that the player relationship is healthy, right? Like in your deepening that relationship beyond spent.
Yeah. So, I want a lot of data points. I I want to focus on web stores because like this is our area.

Um so, it's on on several levels. Personally, I like to look on the data funnel from users that are exposed to the offers to successful purchases until they're back to the game. We noticed that there are several failure points in that funnel. So, it's something that we're looking at very closely. Um repeating purchases uh it's very critical. I think the first visit to the store is just a a test that the user is doing, and when he's coming back, the the the relationship is starting. Um and I would take chargebacks and disputes because I think that if chargebacks and disputes are happening, it means that the user is not trusting your support. And if he approaches

the publisher directly, it means that he trusts you. That you will handle it.
And in Rafa, for you on web and and browser gaming, which has historically, as you mentioned earlier, had a reputation for aggressive ad loops and and that can impact just player trust and quality of experience. How are you How are you all thinking about supporting retention?
Yeah, it was like the the web was the wild west for a long time, I guess. Some sketchy websites. I mean, we really try to be as professional as we can. So, you know, as you expect, whatever we handle we're handling I mean, payments, that's why we're working with Xsolla even. So, everything is You have You need to have your the trust, right? Not not something malicious or something that

a user will feel uncomfortable. So, this I think this is very very very important. In terms of retention, I think for us it's really like about the UX, like the you know, getting getting the right experience to the players. Being from loading times to to even like the the right game mechanics, right? Cuz we are across device platforms, so it needs to work everywhere. It needs to work on your tablet, on your on your computer, or also in your mobile, right? So, So, we we really focus a lot into into get this experience right. We also like we have an internal QA team that's is getting fairly large now. We we actually go through every single submission that we get Um, and we give feedback to the ones that get approved. So, I don't think that that's just it's a lot of UX in the quality of of this stuff that we're doing. Plus, I mean, I think they they're just looking professional, right? Because we are very independent in that sense.

Um, we're not inside App Store or anything. We're a website, so we need to take into think about everything, really. So, that's the I don't think that's that's what brings good retention, right? The games are, of course, a very important part of it, but like building the whole um, infrastructure around, um, I think that that's what matters.
Yep. Makes sense. Daniel, let's let's turn it to the future here. Where do you see purpose-driven loyalty and environmental impact mechanisms heading in the next few years?
So, when we started with the Dotsero 4 years and a half ago, we're talking to all the studios, and nobody knew about it. They looked at us like crazies, like, "What do you mean merging real-world impact inside my game?" And fast-forward 4 years and a half after, Oren, that has worked at Playtika and SciPlay, we've been collaborating with

them with most of their titles. Uh, we see the larger studios embracing it. So, we really moved from education uh, to adoption. I also think that authenticity is something that people are looking for. Um, and they are looking today, consumers are not looking only for the products or services that they are consuming, but also by the values behind the these brands. So, um, it's still you know, like I would I don't know if it's still the early days, but we're definitely in the adoption process. We're seeing more and more and more studios willing to add this layer of purpose inside their game to to create a stronger community, to give

this sense of meaning and ultimately they are businesses, so to increase engagement, retention, monetization, revenue. And we do see that for example, for key KPIs like first-time deposits, new paying users we see that whenever these mechanics are applied, we see very big uplifts. And I believe it's people can cross this psychological barrier of making their first purchase when they feel that they're doing something good on top of their entertainment. So yeah, to answer your question, I it's not yet mainstream but more studios are doing it and if we continue with this trend, I believe that it will be really table stakes in gaming in general.
And it takes impact to another level,

not just from a B2C perspective, but from B2B too. So not just for the consumer, but for the studio as well.
Completely. One of the things that we always hear is how much the teams at studios enjoy even working on these kind of collaborations. You know, giving them the option to for the first time probably in their career to be able to say, "Hey we're planting a forest." And this also makes business sense. Our players love it. They go to extra mile. They play more. They tell their friends. they're getting certificates. They share it over social media. It becomes a viral. So, yeah, definitely I would say it's B2C focused, but there are also lots of B2B values as well.
Yeah, definitely. And And for you, Oren, your your current focus is on AI. Where do you see AI having the most meaningful impact on player relationship, and where do you think it creates risk of making

engagement feel less human?
I'll start with some zoom out on the question. I think that this period that we reached to is an amazing. Like I started the journey like a year and a half ago. It was a huge party. Like everybody said AI. I think when I started to explore what solutions are there in the market, I met three, four vendors a week. It was crazy. And I think that the point that we are at these days is like we are in the after party. Suddenly, people are starting to talk about cost. How do we optimize? What do we actually do with it? And so, it's very interesting. I think that we are shifting from being AI users to AI builders. And starting to see all kind of new groups in WhatsApps. So, it's not like what's new in AI. It's like AI builders.

What do I build with it? How do I build it? They're all sharing GitHub codes. So, it's very interesting these days, and I saw it in Cyber Place. I think all of like the domains inside the game, which is interesting. I think that if I'm talking about relationship, it's personalization. It's a huge challenge. And how do I approach the user exactly how he needs to be approached. With the right pricing, with the right experience, with the right difficulty in the game, depends on whichever game you're holding. And so, I would bet personalization. And the risks um I think that if you will take AI outputs without men in the middle, it has two risks. First of all, AI it's

trained on mass market. So, it will deviate from the design style that you have, from the language that you have in the game. So, and the users will notice it immediately. It will look generic. Like if you will generate a picture, an image with one of the models, you will see it looks like Pixar.
Mhm.
Because it was trained on it. So, this is one thing. Second, it's around text. I think that the uh if you will just put what AI gave you as an output, as an interface to the user, um it's not accurate. Like you need to double-check, especially for the high-value players.
Yeah, absolutely. And ironically, you know, even though it's less human, personalization at scale is likely these days only achievable with it, right? Um when you're talking about the vast majority of audiences that you need to

service. Um we're going to learn
it's a shift from segmenting users to approaching personally to them.
Absolutely. As we wrap up here, I'm going to close out with you. Um but I this is a question for all panelists here. If you could give advice, practical advice, to a studio who wants to start building something more direct, more durable, more sustainable, driving personal relationship with consumers, high LTV. What's the first real step studios should take? And what mistake are they likely going to make?
Um Well, that's a big question there, but uh I think what I see it's obviously it's a new environment once you're working with the web. So, um we see that normally the first project always gets some hiccups here and there. Um but after it's not so complicated learning about like optimization, the the right toolings, uh the right implementation, and understanding the

player behavior, which is different than mobile, right? Um and I think that's if if I were starting, I think definitely a web is is a place you know, that's been growing consistently the past years. Um so, there's a lot of opportunity, but I think just to I think get that the know-how um about, you know, what works and what doesn't on the web. There's a a lot of documentation on Crazy Games that can get you started, um but at the same time, you know, just talk to other developers, see what works and what doesn't. And uh and yeah, I guess if you're here, the best way to start is just come talk to us. We have a booth here.
Awesome. It's funny how it's come full circle back to web. Uh Daniel?
Yeah, so I think it's about stop thinking about your players as users, and think about them as participants. Mainly about everything that I've been talking about purpose-driven. So, you know, we know

all these like for years studios have been doing donations and charity activities, which are not taking the player as a participant. They are passive observers of what the studio is doing. So, really turn your players into participant of that. Let them work for the impact. Let them unlock the impact. And yeah, I think one of the biggest mistakes that you were asking it's about just thinking about this relationship enabled to channels alone. So, yes, we need to have access to the players. But when you will really unlock the full potential of them and create a long-lasting relationship, it's when they feel that they're as I was saying, part of something bigger than themselves, part of a community.

And when you're talking to their values, to their motivations,
Goes back to the philosophy of give space, take space, allowing the players to contribute. I like that. And Oren?
Um okay, so I I want to talk about web stores again cuz I like to be practical. Um I think that if you want good and solid implementation, you'll need to start a set of ground with executive on boarding because it's a big change from moving from top line revenue to net revenue increasing. Then you need someone with the right expertise to take it end-to-end because the games were not set to manage payments on their own. And what I would be careful from is just take it as a technical transformation and not like

something more profound.
Absolutely. And Exola can help you do that. All right. That's it for us here. I'm not sure if we have enough time for questions. If not, Okay.
Do we have a question? Well, then I'll tell you what then and let's leave it there. What I suggest is um if you do have any questions cuz I know it can be hard to put your hand up on the fly. I would be find one of our panelists or exhibitors or sponsors at their booth and ask them directly there. Um let's give a great round of applause to our panel. Really well moderated. Thank you very much, folks. All of that was great. Really good questions. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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