Mistplay’s Gabriel Lewis On Leveraging Loyalty To Keep Paying Players Coming Back

[Music] hello world I'm your host for this wrap of some of the best talks and coolest speakers at PG connect London the games conference my guest today is Gabe Lewis he is senior director Global head of accounts at missplay we chat about the science of rewarded ad approaches and how you can keep players and payers coming back so listen learn and love this episode where I chill and chat with [Music] Gabe so this is what I like being able to sit back digest an amazing event Absolut and say okay what did we see what did we hear Gabe you had a session and um just some ideas some Impressions first before we Deep dive into what I'm excited to talk about which is like

rewards now and in the future yeah we had an early morning session today which was great well attended and it was just really awesome to riff about uh some of the changing things that are happening in 2024 you know there's a lot of stuff that everyone's aware about uh in the industry but I think some of the smaller changes and just sort of the style of games and really focus on the games themselves and how they're evolving and how player mentality is changing and how game developers and everyone else in the ecosystem has to react to that and some of the trends that we're seeing um and I think that that Pro provides the exciting opportunities that we're going to see this year what about what excited you in your talks and what you're hearing maybe even just chatting with some marketers yeah exactly I think you know just the the shifting attitude in the industry around you know the the sophistication on all sides around you know player attitudes and what game developers have to respond to in that way and then how that translates into how they build their marketing mix and their marketing programs and that's where the aspects of you know

integrating loyalty and thinking longterm around LTV really uh is starting to shine you know the old tricks of just focusing on the short term aren't working as much anymore which is you know bad news for people who were really good at that but it's an opportunity for people who are able to shift their mentality and really take a a longer view approach and you know as John put it this morning double down on their strategy and really believe in the products that they're building so I think there's a lot of excitement you know for the people who have the Constitution to to Really dedicate themselves to their crafts I interviewed John from Kali John wri from quali and that was the whole idea in that article when he said and you have to think about where he's coming from right we're talking about casual games hybrid casual space when he says we have to keep people in our game for a year iron remember remember was 14 days and you thought hey I'm I'm home free this is this is working for me so they've change how they're looking at things tell me a little bit about misplay I mean you also have to adapt to that and probably also

adapt to the good news because there's no Stigma anymore about incentivized remember those days absolutely I mean when I started uh with misplay six years ago it was really selling people on the concept of you know this it's not just in we don't we don't even use the word incentivized it was a dirty word at the time you know so we had to really change the mentality and and really talk about loyalty and talk about incentivizing long-term engagement and so in that respect I feel we were ahead of the curve which was great um and it's it's fantastic to see and really validating to see the market kind of catch up with that idea we see so many people focusing on loyalty and again it's all part of that ecosystem it's all part of that idea that we have to think you know with a much longer View and really dedicate ourselves to these things like you said people have to stay in the game a year that's what misplay itself is trying to do is trying to create an experience that helps game developers you know encourage people to stay in their games longer where we're you know we're curating things for gamers and we're adding this layer of engagement on top of already existing amazing games so we're there to work hand inand with

these folks to make uh win-win scenarios and again that's what what I think is really special about this and it just plays so smoothly into you know user attitude user Behavior you know they they're just they're here to play games people love to play games and they're looking for more reasons to play and if we're adding an extra reason you know through the rewards aspect you know giving them something back whether it's something virtual or something physical um you know that really ties into their lifestyle then it's just everybody wins in the end mechanics make it make it hard you have to earn it if you earn it you appreciate it now you are about rewards but how you might be building this in that maybe there's friction to it that it isn't a piece of cake yeah it has to be almost part of the game experience it has to be something that you have to work towards you give them a you know there's the simple aspect of gamification where you give them a little taste early so that they're they feel good about it and then you make the rewards harder and harder to get the other thing that we're doing is trying to get deeper integrated with the games eles and make sure that we're able to

leverage the events that they have the special events that are going on and the progression that they have in their games and time the way we engage our users in the same way so we're coming coming at them from both ends to give them a great experience that allows them to really have you know that really be invested in their game and get the most out of it both from the game themselves and from the service we provide so again it really comes down to tag teaming with the game developers to create this Rich experience for gamers that that leads to engagement leads to that long-term um you know playing and retention and drives that value for everybody rewards are cool but it has to be about the game people didn't come for the rewards and if they did they're not going to be that valuable so you got to go in there for the mechanic and then time it such that the rewards are like more of a I want to say trigger because that always sounds behavioral and sort of you know weird but they're more of a yeah a catalyst an impetus moving someone through the Journey so is that happening now can you give me an example like what that user Journey looks like because that's it's going to be something where there's an

interplay a very deep interplay between the game mechanic and you being literally part of the game yeah so it's definitely a little bit still in the works but just from a a basic point of view of of the reward economy that we've built you know it's a long-term economy that incentivizes people over you know hours and hours of gameplay uh and you know so we've we constantly iterating on that to make sure that we're responding to user Behavior if we see the drop off because we can see when users are playing their games if we see the drop off we iterate the economy to make sure that it's something that can still be more valuable to to users so that's something we're already doing and then those deeper Integrations that I alluded to are still in the work so more to come on that pretty soon I imagine I imagine there's got to be some automation optimization AI all that cool stuff every buzz word every buzzword how personal can it get I mean it's down to the user level right I mean we we're not the only ones lots of people are doing predictions on the user level based on you know as much info as much as you can

know about a user we we try and predict if they are going to be a long-standing user someone who's going to engage with the game engage with multiple games uh and so it's really on the user level and and that leaves room for personalized engagement you know through misplay through the rewards platform and and the the potential is endless on that you know the the the the future road map on what we can do with the way we engage with each user on an individual level I mean the possibilities are really endless and that's also what what really excites me about the future and why I know there's so much room left to go in this space so it's not just like what I'm hearing the players will you know shape the experience in the game but they can also through their behavior Tas it or express it shape also the rewards and say you know this is this is the challenge that I'm willing to go for this is the way I want it presented or something where the rewards become the experience yeah I mean at a at a very basic fundamental level it'd be irresponsible of us not to respond to what we winess and user behavior and so

we're going to do that if we notice that there are certain things that make users tick you know uh or certain uh aspects of of their game Journey that they just they really you know engage with the most it would it's only to ours and their benefit to if we respond to that and create a reward path or types of Rewards or or whatever part of the engagement that experience that we can make that tailor to that behavior so that's it's a constant learning experience it's a constant Evolution and you know nobody's static what that's what's exciting too the market changes users change the things they care about change and we respond to that and we have to I mean otherwise you know we have to keep evolving that's what it is you almost have to design for rewards in a way it's not an afterthought help me with the creativity what goes into mixing that making it right help me yeah help our audience figure out hey okay I see this but baking it in building it in help me push the boundaries a little bit more because you know hey a reward video been there done that y so I mean it's

it's interesting and this is something we alluded to in the discussion this morning too is the is the types of rewards right you know I think that's a that's a big thing that keep that comes down to it and the way we the the more diversity of of types of rewards we can offer because you use the word rewards it could mean you know people think I'm just getting cash back or or something like that which is valuable and people people appreciate that but other things you know physical Goods in the in the real world that tie into their lifestyle that match with sort of the profile of a gamer of a certain type of gamer if we're talking about RPG gamers predominantly into certain things uh other other kinds of Gamers into into other things and being able to customize the rewards that we're able to give users um to to that style to that lifestyle is really where I think you know the value gets unlocked it's it's it's all in that personalization uh and and again with that goal of creating this stickiness this this reason to you know to just keep coming back and playing a game um and I think you know that's a that's a really big part of it what are some consistencies here because we know that in Behavior there are some consistencies

and then we have our player types or we have our you know there's so many different models you can have Professor ble you you could you can do whatever you want you got six 12 I think 14 you know you pick it you've got your player types reward types now that's something and you probably have data going into that maybe you can lift a lid on some idea of how that's going to help developers make the decision because you're going to have to match them in a way yeah absolutely I think it all comes down into the way we have those discussions with our partners you know get to understand them in in a true partnership and understand you know the kind of game that they're developing and the users that they cater to and making sure that we can match that offering I mean we do have that data on the users as well and so we we can propose but but the idea is that it's a partnership it's two-way we don't we don't presume to know you know everything about uh about a specific game or their users we really want to work together on that and make sure that we're able to do so and and on our side you know leave enough flexibility so that we can again design

design a reward path that caters more specifically to those games uh that will um you know end up in in in in giving the rewards that mean the right things to the right users it's it's really around having that diversity and not just putting pigeon ho holding everyone into a box oh Everyone likes money and so we are going to say after this amount of time of playing you get x amount of money it's not that it's really saying you know you continue as you go and more you go the more you can earn but you know you don't just earn towards one thing it's it's whatever you're into there's an option for you how adaptive is that because audiences change tastes change and I might say yeah I'm really into that but no I'm actually really into that and I want the tech to always change with me I mean look at look at the games themselves you know I'm going to be deciding pretty soon my gameplay my ending my character the the the AI is going to give me the voice I want I mean I have everything on my terms do I have my rewards on my terms I mean yeah that's the kind of that's

the challenge that's upon us right I I feel that we I feel very good about the diversity of rewards we have right now there you know in I'll say it generally there is something for everybody but the ability to really really customize that is something that's that's a challenge for us as as you know user customization and individuality through gaming you know really ramps up and increases that's that's our responsibility as well to respond to that so the more we can do to offer that the better results the our partners the game developers are going to see with the users who come through misplay and play their games they're going to have a more enriching experience so again it's it's our responsibility to respond to that challenge so I can tell by talking with you Gabe and also from your panel you're like you know you like to you like to think outside the box a little bit you like to think ahead and you've also still told me that there's some cool stuff coming so you know this at misplay but having that kind of personality means that you can also be a little a little frustrated by where we all are right cuz we're here this is q1 2024

you're off I don't know Q4 at least maybe 2025 but what would you like to unlock and unleash and see because you know it's possible if we can just get on the same page with you Gabe yeah it's it's an interesting one I try not to live too far ahead uh you know try try and be present in the here and now but certainly you know I think the you see all the possibilities of what AI can do and and the custo and really again it coming comes down to individual individuality you know what each person needs to see before them to have a rewarding and engaging path in the games that they're playing in whatever they're participating in and I know that the possibilities now to actually map that to an individual user you know it's becoming more and more possible by the day so just waiting for you know technology and bandwidth to catch up with our Ambitions you know like everybody it's you know we've got great ideas we know you know so many special things that we can do to keep engaging users create like the most rewarding experience that creates and I say I use

the word term win-win a lot but it's win-win-win it's it's win for us win for game developers and win for users and if one of those is missing then it doesn't work and and you know so we really are just excited about all the ideas we have uh and and being able to put them in motion like everybody else we're trying not to get ah ahead of ourselves not trying to fall over our skis but uh it's it's hard not to it's ex exciting times things are moving fast and uh you know every week every month we've kind of got you know new plans new ideas that that we're able to put in give me an idea of something where even for you watching it for the years that you have you're like wow are we on the cusp of something that we can't imagine right now but help me get there help me get there where can this go it's a great question I it's hard for me to to to to to put a finger on a point because it's like I I see an endless plane ahead where it's just it's it's really becomes seamless Integrations you know across multiple games or across you know games and lifestyle and things like that where

it's you're not just playing on your phone and earning rewards while you play while doing something passive it's also while doing things in the physical world that may that may react to that or things cross game cross promotion and stuff like that where you can earn cross promotion will comeback cross promotion exactly but in a in a new way with new technology that just sort of takes that loyalty aspect in in into uh into mind as they do it so I think it's really the the possibilities on that and the you know what we can do these days is really interesting so that's what excites me what about about you what about where you're going or what keeps you moving or what you're bringing to this I want to understand the interplay between your passion and you as a person yeah my my passion is really for relationships and and and sort of elevating everyone together I I really believe in that in in most aspects of my life that if you can come you take any scenario and with with both parties or as many parties are involved leaving in a better place place than they started then everybody moves

forward and everybody wins um I take that into my work and you know as a as a Partnerships director that's that's the the whole reason I do what I do but it very much stems from my my passion in life as well which is which is helping people achieve their success um and you can only do that by by making sure that both sides or all parties you know leave in a better place than where they came so that's really where it all comes from for me and and I think that translates to any kind of work you can do I'm just a I'm fortunate and privileged enough to be able to do something that's so directly related to that um with this partnership Ro and in this time that we're in I mean who doesn't want to be a better version of themselves right personal and professional growth absolutely Gabe absolutely awesome speaking with you and to stretch my mind thinking about where this can go this is not just reward video this is not that dull stuff we've been talking about for a decade this is on the cusp of cool so thank thanks so much thank you Peggy it

was a pleasure this show is all about how to do your job better how to make an amazing game how to Market it and you have a say so if you have a story or know someone we need to shine a light on then we would love to hear from you we want to hear from you we want to reflect the reality of the mobile games Market in all its wonderful complexity and strangeness so if you have any suggestions for us if you have any feedback for us you can always get in touch you can email us at podcast pocketgamer.biz you can find us on Twitter at PG Biz and you can reach out to us through the pocketgamer.biz website if you're interested in listening to all of our podcasts you can find them at pocketgamer.biz SLP podcast and we would love to hear your thoughts on future shows and we've got you covered on all the major platforms so subscribe to the audio podcast as Brian said look for us on YouTube if you want to read it hey you can do that too

because we have a companion post for you as well on the pocketgamer.biz website tune in again for the next edition of the pocketgamer.biz podcast and we look forward to speaking to you in the near future until then I'm Brian bagloo I'm Peggy and salts and that's a wrap until next [Music] week