Legend of Mushroom's Success: 150+Mil IAP revenue in 4 months? Social features, guilds, UA & Admon

tell us a little bit more about your pair experience can because I didn't have that yeah we could well yob couldn't figure that out doesn't know doesn't know to put in some credit card details I can I can definitely get into that here in a second I just I just want to cap this off by saying that like in in a game that's this complex with meta systems I would expect them to go so far as to push it maybe in the next iteration of this game down the path of like a 4X social Loop [Music] this is a no [ __ ] gaming show where we talk about games and their revenue in great detail powered by our ad monetization game design and user acquisition Triple Threat expertise welcome to the two and a half Gamers the unfiltered truth served with a side of giggles

let's not forget this is a 400 a.m. conference discussion Vibe so let's not take it too seriously tune in now and stay two and a half steps ahead of the gaming as usual as you can go live nobody cares it's fine we'll look at the silly creatives later yeah I can put in post production whatever H yeah everybody Welcome to the two and a half Gamers and we have a special guest today again because we had a lot of fun with Ken last time when we were talking about braw stars and he is also a guy who can actually talk with yakob about the the game design product stuff right but before we start uh my name is mat anich I'm Felix braberg we are your host and as I mentioned welcome Ken welcome again thank you for having me on I really appreciate it yeah well uh uh what are we talking about today l of mushroom we

teased in our SL and [ __ ] killing it everywhere it was life I like outside of us for a while right and now they they did a western uh lounge and oh my God they're earning a lot of money Legend mushroom go yeah actually how we got known about the game was this Korean sensor Ty article if I remember correctly can you remind me who actually sent this to our like uh group you sent this yeah exactly okay thank you yeah thank you very much it's fine yeah so if we yeah if you translate it actually pretty much says that like Legend of mushrooms H number one in South Korea which is kind of unheard of especially where you know there's still lineage dominance there and it's kind of very heavy still like yeah that's that's South Korea for for all all you know reasons and purposes but yeah the game grossing very very

high there uh and we'll get to it how it actually can go there where we are yeah so it was released somewhere in November 23rd 2023 last year and now it scaled all the way to something like two and a half 2 million IP Revenue only there's subst a day a day a day a substantial amount of AD revenue on top of it but like it scaled like crazy and download wise you could see I think this is let's let's do countries filter yeah this is the Western release somewhere at the start of March this is the Japan one can you can you drop the name of the legend of mushroom in what South Korean or where is it to our chat which one yeah the name of the game because you know the fun fact is when you're trying to actually search for it in sensor Tower you can't physically impossible yeah it's it's impossible now it's possible because it's Western release now but before you had to go with the Korean name yes you're right right that's that's that's like that's

there but yeah let's even right now if you like just now like try to uh search for it Legend of mushroom it's it's not there but it's it's there now now it's there like you see it there ion has the Pepe frog in it yeah yeah yeah exactly Jesus Christ that's crazy yeah all the memes all the memes you can get so now it's it's under like also like uh Western release now you see that like whatever at the start there was like 80k downloads from us now it's something like 20K a day but overall uh if you look at it they're still doing like 200k downloads a day so pretty strong still already somewhere past like I know 125 million dollars in IP revenue and something like 10 million downloads still a lot less downloads that I would expect now but again they're just scaling in the west this whole kind of thing where they started in South Korea from like end of December was kind of I

would say trial period a little bit but then you see how it's killed now yeah can you put Legend of slime next to this on the launch yes that's that's the other thing we'll be talking a lot about our other favorite game from our friends from Lo Goen which is Legend of slime which is no longer managed by them right yeah it's now on sitting on EP quantum's account and this game was actually released or let's say soft launch in June 202 two then it hit its peak somewhere around February last year and then it went on a little bit of decline but still going strong with something like I don't know 35k IP Revenue day which I would multiply ma is clicking m is yeah yeah yeah so yeah I will talk a little bit more about Legend of slime but the this other game if I if I understand correctly the legend of mushroom is what like four months old regarding

yeah so it's quite an achievement actually uh because I think this is the second podcast in a row now that we are talking about the game that's making two and a half million a day and this G Gamers talking about game this game is actually making more than the previous one the last four one because last one didn't have ads this have ads on top of it so my guess is it's like three plus million day please uh our listeners if you know about game makes 2 and a half million a day please let us know yeah really want to talk about it yeah definitely that's there um shall we go to the games then which games yeah because if we look at it and I'll do a very fast kind of a round down of it oh history lesson yeah not history lesson it's literally like it's there and this is also there where are your cucumber glasses I was hoping you'd have your cucumber glasses no I don't have cucumber glasses anymore I have this whatever mask there yeah so the thing is that

some features are literally taken one to one from these two games like you open the game like Legend mushro like wait a second this Legend of slime yeah but don't get me wrong this is not the blatant copy it's like they copy the core and the solid kind of Baseline of the game but they improved where they they I get I think it's very very smart Improvement because if you look at let's say let's say the pet power progression layer it's basically the same like there's Lally nothing to it if you look at the skill progression layer uh again it's literally the same if we look at let's say let's go to yeah these can alternative game modes again literally the same they even don't bother even changing the icons it's literally the same icons like the keys has the same icons if I go uh where where I was there The Relic thing here yeah this thing like you see this Fork icon car

so if we go here into uh no not this one this one this one yeah this this is again the same another Power pression rare but the Relic was where was The Relic I always forgot that one that's why you don't you didn't play the game properly too many things yeah CLI on the book yeah there there's the thanks again so see the fork icon is literally the same so they went like one to one didn't even bother with changing the visuals but what's what's really important between these two games and there's two major distinctions that we can talk about in more detail is that they changed the very core of the game a little bit because does mean very core there is core and there is very core yeah this is literally the very because both are idle RPGs but the thing is hardore yeah super hardore that Legend of slime has the let's say the very very very kind of old school very very core

yeah have very core core very core very very core you you upgrade specific parameters with these currencies that go to gazillions like literally 11.6 H or whatever yeah and that's that's like the core of idol like Adventure capitalis and stuff like that like that was the old idle core these guys took it and put literally one progression layer which is the equipment behind it and it's about opening gacha forever like the whole thing is based about this magic lamp which is basically a gacha that you're opening forever and at some point it gets automated and you select which kind of a let's say the where where's the Moto button yeah here it is you select which kind of a rarity you don't even want to bother with yeah and it only informs you or stops the game when you actually roll a rarity that you're looking for or you can rolling it for like specific Stat or whatever but once you press it the whole thing kind automates itself like you should you can't press anything else because that

my well yeah you on the yeah yeah you can't click on the lamp like I put like on auto cell I like what the [ __ ] why is it not working yeah this little guy actually showed me like ah but you can't click on this is this is very important like critical iteration where it's much more streamlined yeah because you put phone on the on the table and it kind of plays but you don't need to choose these things because here you need to choose like where should I spend my resources this or that or whatever here it's very simple because the moment a better gear arrives there's even a confirmation button like do you really want to get rid of this better gear that they literally have it in so it's very streamlined which I think is much better on boarding experience you don't really need to go through all these things then the rest of the game is pretty much the same we don't like we can talk about it a little bit but I don't think so it's kind of that that need very important the important part is the social part because they have social Legend of slime doesn't have social features which I

think is the killer iteration that they did there and thank you much for listening and by the way if you listen to a podcast about Legend of slime that was the point why I said I don't give Legend of slime 10 out of 10 because one point was deducted because they didn't have any social features o which means this is going to get oh well let's see what kind of rating this is going to get yeah so I guess we're going to talk a little bit about it more but yeah I would like to give Ken a little bit more space manag just rumbling all the time yeah I agree with literally 99% of the things Yakov is saying let's talk about the 1% yeah I mean like I just want to reiterate I think it's great that they reduce the decision fatigue on upgrading specific stacks of uh gear um and they've obviously done a great job with providing a super wide dir of progression verticals I mean players have a huge amount of things to do throughout the first week of game play um you know I think there's 10 different very clear progression verticals that they can hit but that's again same for

for legend of slime or whatever other game that's based off of um so long as uh like the social side of it I would say that where I somewhat disagree or where I feel like I might start disagreeing is that it still feels very uh juvenile to me like uh when I when I look at systems that are this deep um and there's a very like meta system deep game I would expect the social systems to also be very very deep and in my opinion it's still a quite a light social game like um our the The Guild that I'm in um is I think similar progression to yaka is like we're level four level five it's literally all the whales on our server are in this one um but there's not that many benefits I would say to being in our Guild right now um we can be targeted by our own Guild members in PvP they can raid us still uh for like our resources so there's like some weird trade-offs to being in that Guild the only benefits really are um that there's uh some like

custom rewards you can get inside of Guild versus Guild there's some shop level up that you can get so like some basic uh like I would say really basic rewards if you're a payer these rewards mean nothing to you um and there's some family show is kind of [ __ ] but the is not the payer so you know he needs to grind he needs to grind to grind yeah get this yeah tell us a little bit more about your pair experience K because I didn't have that yeah we could well y couldn't figured that out doesn't know doesn't know to put in some credit card details I can I can definitely get into that here in a second I just I just want to cap this off by saying that like in in a game that's this complex with meta systems I would expect them to go so far as to push it maybe in the next iteration of this game down the path of like a 4X social Loop where um they start really managing their shards and taking guilds like mine and putting them on a Forex map you like we've been talking in previous podcast about how

games bait and switch you from these types of Loops into really deep combat Loops from like Forex games this feels like a good game to do that with my everybody in my in my guild is like primed to do that they're spending $10,000 $15,000 within the first week and a half to two weeks the top payers in my guild and they would definitely continue to smash each other against other server shards you know in the same same uh same like regards so I think that's the type of place I see this game going right now it still feels super shallow to me I know that it's a big evolution against Legend of slime but there's still a long way to go question usually clones that make as much money is it just a social features you'd say that is driving this value or would you say it's something else it's not the it's the Clone I didn't um actually I barely played Legend of slime I have it on my phone and I played like a week worth um so I don't know the merchandising in Legend of slime very well I was going to go into some of the

merchandising in Legend of mushroom which is phenomenal um and why I think there there's really strong sides of it and there's a few like uh I would say problem areas that I wanted to call out um so I'll just go into that now if you you guys want yeah go go ahead yes so first off the the game um will have like super strong shark fin um so merchandising in the game is meant so that you have really strong upfront um p pay uh design where like if you guys would remember when you got into the game there'll be like three different offers the for like core core gear pieces like a headpiece AR like a weapon and um another headpiece those three pieces of gear will carry your character all the way to level 50 and you're basically trained from that those first initial very cheap purchases that buying power gets you super far and they tie that back into the like the first social unlock system so like leaderboard system that they have in the game if You' basically bought any of those three

purchases will rocket you up the PVP leaderboard will rocket you up the the progression uh what's it called like the level up leaderboard that they have in the game and then they they have those same three purchases for like uh every single progression vertical in the game they have um uh a really bad gacha design so they have which which gcha PA paid gacha sorry the pals and the skills so when when I think of a really strong gacha design I think back to like impact where when I buy a single uh when I unlock a single five-star character that five-star character unlocks a whole new level of gameplay for me I can play the game in new ways I know exactly how much money I have to spend to get that character buying another six five star character like synergizes with that first one and new unique gameplay ways this game [ __ ] sucks like I could I I I've probably pulled on this thing like 700,000 times and I could not tell you you what the value is like I know that

numbers go up but I can't point to how much I don't know like should I spend $1,000 in here or $5,000 in here because it doesn't feel like they're that consequential to me I would much rather just go into the store and buy $100 worth of gems for some some other progression verticle because these two things do not map well to power progression at all to me it's it's uh you know they have the like I call it like The Shard system of clash Royale where you're not going from like very rare big swings of like I get this five star character from genin Impact it's more of like you gradually get small amounts of power all the time all the legendaries all everything but just very small and the thing is that in the end it just not a like increasing number power progression layer with nothing exciting in it I would say which yeah sounds like bed CA design from this this angle yeah there like I mentioned earlier there's like 10 plus different uh Power progression vertical in the game and every single one of them has a battle pass every single one and each of

those battle passes there's three variants of it you know there's a free and then two P two paid variants of it there's uh a button to remove ads so you can I think it's like $9 and you can remove every single ad uh point in the game which is great I I pay for that one it's like a super clear value offer but I I would expect I would expect in a game that has four monthly subscriptions for that ad removal to be a monthly subscription too so like a fifth monthly subscription there's literally already four monthly Subs in the game put that as for like to remove ads forever like remove ads for 30 days easy yeah yeah put it put it 3.99 and make it like a monthly one um they have a custom shopping cart which uh is also like whale targeting um but they also have really really poor um upselling strategy so like I will have spent $40 on a pack of gems and then they never Target me with a custom bundle for $40 ever again

you mean like price segmentations price segmentations like not doesn't exist they have a web shop and they promote me to go to that web shop uh once a week through like a red badge but that's it there's no like great deals there um I think there's maybe like a 10% haircut I can't remember the exact value offer but there's only one person in my guild who goes and uses that which sucks even though like everybody in my guild is like 10,000 plus Defenders there should be like 90% of of the guild going to webop and just purchased for there yeah so all all this to say is like the the the way that they've designed their offers the how deep they are how frequent uh or how many there are they're basically shoving all this value really really early in the game play and they don't do a great job of uh spreading out that value longterm and showing you the long-term value all of it is showing you how to kind of uh progress as fast as possible into the leaderboards into you know the the PVP leaderboard the level up

leaderboard The Guild leader boards and so on and there's this like core uh player motivation of do the thing first right like there's this even these like um these prizes that you get inside of your newsfeed uh for being the first person on your server to reach like apocalypse 5 or whatever that is the core player motivation of this game so you are incentivized to do the the monetization soon quick now and why that's one of the big reasons why I feel like this is going to have a really poor long-term monetization without additional player motivations for long-term spend um there's they need to have more Guild versus Guild events that kind of reward that um that spend long term right now the only like week over week spending that I can see that they're doing for for me and my guild is these new like Mount events that they have where inside the mount system and their artifact system they'll have these I don't know if you want to go to advance um uh there yeah so there's these like

custom mounts that you can only get through the event system and you have to be like the top three players on your server Shard to get one of these things and that means basically you've had to have spent I don't know on our server it's like five grand plus an event which again poor monetization design because if I if I'm willing to spend a $300 but not $5,000 I can't get [ __ ] um so yeah it's it's a weird design but it's going to do well uh it's just going to shark fin quite heavily and yeah that's kind of like my my thoughts there on that monetization side I don't know how much of that tracks Jacob back to Legend of slime but it uh feels like they've done a good job it's just going to be very front heavy you mean like the offer strategy of Legend of slime compared to this yeah yeah uh I would say Legend of slime by its Baseline is much more skilled toward ATS because they have some some of the things that for instance this one well this kind of they still like 70% iip is 30% ads yeah I

know but like still like they have these like Kuma ads yeah yeah yeah so leg Legend of mar is definitely less than Legend of slime that's my guess but yeah I can't really comment on the like the because I'm not that like into paying things no no worries I was gonna say that like things that Remo has never said why I want I made a purchase yeah yeah like I have I have like 100 plus or whatever like P of Exile like payer account or whatever like that that's like was my my kind of thing but I always everybody says nobody cares about pile we are this the game you're talking about just wait until they release the second anyway yeah want to finish like few things here like for me this kind of a like I know it's kind of super primitive but for me this is like genius what they did here with this Farm thing where literally yeah you're growing your crops and you can go and steal other people's crops literally go there and then have this kind of thief and it also

happens there that if if you if you log into your game you literally log into your farm and there's this Thief character sitting there and you need to either win a fight against him or call your friends or call your guil to kick him out otherwise he steals your crops nice this is I I somebody was stealing my my resources from my uh from my crop and I called my guild to to to defeat them because it was somebody that was like more powerful than me and our our most powerful player came in kicked him out and then started stealing my resource like sh what the what am I supposed to do about that yeah yeah this is this is the thing like I don't get this like okay like this whole mechanic makes sense and everything but like most of the things that I go to Ste is from my friend list actually yeah like all the people that went through me through this other mode where it's like cooperative and you random match make with people like all my friends I can like see there know they're offline I can go into their farm and like steal their [ __ ] and stuff yeah it's very interesting but for me the other good thing they did here is that the guild thing is no longer a list it's a map so you can show off your

stuff you can have that social status you know skin thing there which is very old schoolish but you don't see these days anymore you just see lists like in all the games that I played in like last half half a year there was never a social feature with like like this kind of shared space I think that they did that very good uh yeah if you say that especially after we covered like four forex's in a row on this podcast yeah I I could definitely see this going into some kind of like Forex functionality other functionality they took from Forex already by the way is the is the timer helper mechanic which is really good that the whole Guild pretty much can help you on timers where there's like research timers building timers crops timers whatever timers and everybody can shave those like the typical Forex thing and and the guild is very very pushy like I literally have people like here in my chat messaging me that like I think it's just today like hey you could also donate in the family good rewards for you and everyone

Jesus people are very very pushy yeah so yeah mentioned during the weekend like oh my God I need need to play Legend of mushroom because they will kick me out for like two days of no activity it's like okay that's what literally written in our Guild like AFK two days is a kick it's there well remember to donate daop yeah yeah yeah I need to help Family come on man I would say that one of the one of the gameplay things I think they need to improve on is they need to AV test the when to unlock the auto lamping yeah it's too late I I have a few friends who I was like you need to play this game to do some research on the monetization and they're like this [ __ ] lamp selection thing is is like super annoying it unlocks after like I don't know level 10 or something like that it should unlock at like level three but they need to a test that guys what do you think the session links this for this game obscenely long yeah say so giant I literally leave mine on all day

I have like a uh a wireless charging stand here in front of me and it's just going on all day cuz I have I have like 20,000 lamps I have to open up yeah yakob got there was like how can you even like spend them all uh just leave it playing that's it you can unlock uh go back to your auto button and um click on the oh there's you CLI on the one you can increase the number from one to like four go yeah by the way yeah oh really yeah oh man this is life changing no I I saw that but the lamp was like number like it unlocks after level of four or five and I was like oh my one more one more the pricing here at this level of lamp by the way I think go back to the go back to just click on the 16 there y yeah so $939,000 gold that is roughly like $90 an IP just to just to buy that much gold to go up one fifth of a level yeah and it still won't give you the next Rarity

this time insane yeah so things are very expensive you know once you get past like the first week of progression yeah but but by the way one other thing I think I don't don't have it here let me show you because I think I took a screenshot did you see how the like asynchronous DOTA event that they built in the clan wars thing I think that was that was really good the three lanes yeah yeah the three lanes so so basically what these guys Guild is pretty much an async DOTA where you have three lanes you put your whatever character in one of Threes like all the guild pretty much puts it there and then it goes in this uh series of un synchronous battles against the enemy Clan and after winning three battles in a row you get penalty so you wouldn't like destroy everything in one character it's like pretty much like an endurance thing I would say and if you win two of the three lines you win the whole thing and there just giant rewards and there they are they this feature has the special shop which the special shop only is is the sole source of some of those I

don't if I get there yeah I can get there some of those other spells which are like whatever Dragon resonance event based one and stuff like that so this there's a little bit of like kedon a stick within the social layer but yeah I I I don't think so it's like enough as can said like could be fleshed out much more usually games would blck the really end game things here and it would be like the sole purpose of going this way like no other way around it and just like you need to go this way otherwise you know you're [ __ ] so that's can we move on to admon because I know it's going to finish with a argument me versus you one last thing really just want to kind of cover like literally one minute uh the events that they're running uh I think again it's a little bit of improvement from Legend of slime because they have three types of events which is the trigger events basically we track how you how you play and we give you rewards based on that very simple one recycled one then there's like start from scratch which is currently done here this like life simulator where this pretty much

simplified version of the whole game where you like select stuff select everything and you just play in this you know ladder based difficulty on the timer again same as Legend slime but the third one which is not currently running I can't show it but it's pretty much like gacha and it's like just opening gas and you have like three to four pools for like freet to-play user and then you need to pay all the time like you from these events you don't get [ __ ] like you Lally you couldn't play those events played all day long I couldn't even engage with the event it's just like you need to pay in order to play this event yeah yeah yep that's how you get custom like character skins custom Mount skins everything exactly like like the whole thing that people are let's say sitting here like like hold all the airplanes or whatever it's just like yeah it's there there like a motorcycle there's like a candy gun yeah yeah so so the event thing is literally cutthoat regarding this last kind of type of yep you can go Felix yeah yeah so for me

like I think also always like a big tell is where the game is made is always if you see anything relating to a durian fruit in the game because no one in the west knows what the [ __ ] durian fruit is so the shop yeah a bomb in the shop I was like yeah this game is not made for the West in the no one knows what it is it's a smelly fruit that tastes really good that you can eat on the Subways in Korea Singapore or anywhere in Asia too bad but they taste delicious either way uh I played to level 17 game made me giggle a lot uh cucumber glasses were your favorites and the random [ __ ] you throw is hilarious uh the similarities to Legend of slime are uncanny but it's also different in so major M many major ways when it comes to the ad monetization because there's a lot of rewarded ad placements welcome back magic lamp upgrade uh away from keyboard boost three extra draws and the pales of skills and usually they're

stackable so you can watch them two or three times in a row which helps a lot to get impressions up but there's one big major flaw compared to Legend of slime uh because there's no real urgency to watch I never watch an ad it's like why why would I do that [ __ ] you run out of resources that's the only urgency you run out of resour so there's no real urgency right so basically that's my biggest issue with this right so yeah like I would argue probably that there's a welcome back booster and uh yeah the the spins maybe account for 70 to 80% of the Impressions but the ad viewer rate on this game I would say is way lower than what we saw on Legend of line probably only around 35 maybe 40% uh yeah like I would argue here like like the core Gameplay at least in the start is a bit similar to Idol so if they want to earn more ad Revenue they need to have an ad placement at front and center that actually makes sense like a button uh but they don't uh so

how many ads do you guys watch I mean Ken doesn't cuz he he pays but but yakob how many all of those all of those like 40 per day why because you run out of resources you want to move forward yeah but it's annoying I mean it's you play the other game in the meantime on the emulator oh of course you play the other game okay good for you anyway so ADV I think is around like 35 45% 35 to 35 to 40% uh but since most ad placement are stacked probably what's happening is that the users who are watching are watching quite a lot of ads when that is happening so I think probably The Impressions per du is maybe around five or six so in the last 30 days sensor tow says half a million uh da on average in the user that's making 6.3 million in the last 30 days in iaps so I've had to increase EC PM average for that because obviously it's going to get higher

on Mad me here yeah so that means that this game is making about 55 to 60k a day from rewarded ads or 1.8 million a month or about 27% so if you take into account the sadness multiplier probably that would be closer to 20 I would say yeah so now I'm going to come to the part where probably I'm going to make yakob and Ken's ears bleed but just hear me out here so if I was managing this game the first thing I would ask to do is to try to integrate banner ads because exactly what Ken said before the session links on this game are absolutely wild the audience spends basically spends time playing on autoplay and ground just keeps the phone down you have the phone on the table nobody cares for non-p purchasers take the when most purchases are made and everyone who doesn't watch

a lot of rewarded ads and doesn't make any iips you call them like the useless segments and basically after a while you start showing banner ads right so basically that's where you'd have uh yeah the combination of yakob and Ma because ma didn't watch any rewarded ads and yakob didn't make any purchases Yeah so basically low like low Revenue driving users and you start showing them banner ads so I did the math on this so I think you could probably show at least least 160 or 200 Banner Impressions on average which probably is a bit low for this segment but if that's 40% of the users that would mean about 14 to 20K a day in additional ad revenue from a segment that's not really driving that much revenue which is almost like half a million a month in additional ad revenue and you know what nobody cares because they make 2 and a half million a day but M this is not significant enough and it it really I mean like here like look at the look at the look at this like the game play like first of all like where

would you put this isn't isn't there like so many things anyway like like [ __ ] me [ __ ] that man like I I I I refuse that to be an argument because I'm sorry about five or six million a year like there's no Studio that says no to that that's just [ __ ] oh yeah there are so many studios I think there's one in Finland I'm not sure I'm not sure maybe even more and like they make 5 million in two days who the [ __ ] segment I'm saying segmented that's all I'm saying so let me get this Dr so you're saying they're making 60k to compare to 2. half a million and they should do this yeah just think about the engineering work they one one AB test and they just increased the IP Revenue by 10% and already make more money you know wait wait wait wait wait tow said this game made 6.2 million a month 6 million a month with what of in the last 30 days in no in the last six days 30 days because it's going like

this so yeah maybe it's less but you know keep in mind if they stay at two and a half a day it's like it's going to be a completely different picture next month yeah yeah yeah yeah come on so I think I think my guild is $2 and half million man like like VIP Guild I'm sorry here but like yeah what you're saying makes sense but not for this game exactly that that's I would end up here because like if you just do like a I don't know quarter of what Ken just said with the pink part then you know I guarantee that there would be an increase in ARB Dow and and there you go like your whatever banners would be diluted by the first number that show up implementing banners in a segmented way takes less than half a day I know what you mean but it's just insignificant because you're talking about uh teams capacity I refuse that because it's such a dumb argument so much money still on the table it's like

opportunity cost man OPP opportunity cost that's it it's opportunity cost nothing else but how many of these AB tests that you run actually end up making more money usually this is guaranteed it's quite simple I know it's guaranteed but think about about other AB test that you could run instead which could make 10 times more money so we agree that more money is better than less money yeah of course yeah definitely but do we agree that more money is better than less money on the same same time agree to disagree I yield the rest of my time yeah no but like we talked about this for like million times before I mean if if you say oh they could earn potentially half a me a day more thanks to B out say yeah 100% but this is like 50k 60k per like come on man like one thing like I get what you're saying I I you know all good the thing is you never

went through these troubles yourself as a developer like all the SDK crashing your app your developers being [ __ ] furious about it Community people being completely outraged by the ads that are being shown blah blah blah things are you know you you from your perspective like people implement it and charts go up of course but you know you don't see all the troubles the QA and everything that goes into it that's that's the thing here I mean don't touch UA dude like what's why are you making EXC QA QA QA nobody cares about QA nobody cares about UA I know about U yeah I enough this week yeah thank you much okay bye no I know Ken needs to leave as well so like yeah we can we can we can we can leave it QA nobody cares about QA no yeah so anything anything else uh we want to discussing yeah yeah

exactly you game design what do you guys think about the current rewarded placements because like I don't really see a point in watching them like that's the yeah yeah I think that if they really wanted to they could slice off one of the 10 progression verticals and put it behind a rewarded video and then that would be meaningful for people to actually want to watch them and they could do that without drastically cutting into their IP Revenue because they just have so many freaking progression vertical they could do that um that's what I would do if I really wanted to push on it probably whatever like the lowest lowest uh risk version of that is yeah that that's that's basically what exactly Legend of slime has they had one one of the prod vles completely behind ads because it's on a timer so you need to watch three ads and all of those just give you bonuses for 20 minutes yeah so guys doing Legend of mushroom if you're listening you exactly know what to do now yeah of course oh take Games model Forex Forex style

before you run away U uh can you give us your rating for the game what' you give it um I'm gonna steal yakub's rating from the last game I'll give it a nine u maybe well no I won't do that I'll give it a 8.5 I would give them another half a star for if they improve their gacha and I would give them a full star if they had a better social Loop um I like that the progress they made versus leg Legend of slim social but they have a long way to go there still so yeah something like a Forex meta system and there would be just a gravy on top yeah they would make a lot more money per day a lot more and it would be much more sustainable uh which is I think the key here because these these guys are going to do great for a month or two I want to like maybe come back in a month or two and see how the game's doing going to do that yeah thanks for having me on folks I got dip than for stay see y see we yeah we can we can check the UA we can check the

UA alone at last no we can check the U it's going to be quite uh quite quick well uh actually Ken gave us a few UA screenshots because they are apparently showing some ads in in the US on Twitter yeah I was like what it kind of that says a lot because nobody [ __ ] cares about we just uh by the way but yeah they're kind of having like uh you know you know who is this oh nice you have you had to Google it right no I gar was my favorite Pokemon rude but it's only because uh yaku had a t-shirt of Gengar in Istanbul and you were talking about it there he is yeah what's happening oh now I see it yeah right there there's the geng right there okay so for for our fans uh yakob

just showed us his uh gengars and figurines small part of his figure collection yeah small part but then then they have also you know who is this Buzz ligher really yeah fake buzz ligher with mushroom head and wait wait a second you know who is this oh man mushroom Vader yeah yeah yeah yeah they're mushroom Vader and like a lot of different [ __ ] and obviously we have uh godess level whatever with w and and tits and everything and then we have also oh really Stars yeah they're kind of Star Wars Walker mobile you get away with this it's no you no man like it's you can't get away with this it's the Twitter it's it's only because of Twitter they they don't know you couldn't do these things on steam or whatever like the moment you have this you you're down really okay I mean fair enough uh well I guess we can we can check this because what we were talking

about that happened somewhere here right it's like end of February it's that the the western part of the the lounge and I also like they loued Japan oh my [ __ ] god the Japan is now like killing it it's like 1.5 million a day in Japan on these spikes it's like wow it's quite a lot but then you know like from here onwards or since here onwards like the us is kind of like going up so you know like it's end like beginning of March us already on the third spot in terms of the the revenue so it's Japan South us and then Taiwan Germany put the put the stack icon there you can see it much better there there whatever but yeah okay it's true wow so so now it's also like you know here they add the Japan just like end of end of February and then they added the rest of the world Bas so like March and then us taian Germany France and other

European countries so it's that's why only now it's kind of starting to look interesting uh from like the our perspective because now way more people actually know like this game exists when we first uh looked into the the the article from S I like what the [ __ ] is happening here like we have no idea what is this and they're like oh wait we can actually play this all right let's try let's right now uh because you're quite surprised like this game made so many revenues and like okay like where is this Lally compared to Legend of slime it's 10 times more during its peak on iip site only yeah well according to to Sor Tower and also like in Sor Tower I don't see the the Twitter creatives some of you you might be missing something but they are apparently running basic everywhere like

all the channels you can you can get they are they're live on them except except Facebook they have very small very why is that you think uh because they are from Asia and they don't really know how to manage this but it's very true they have some very funny creatives honestly we'll get there uh look at this what yes there's literally red Angry Bird in their creative yes and it's you know it's not in the US right so there's yeah they don't [ __ ] care they really they don't really care so I don't know man China much probably I think China yeah I think China so they're running like every every country basically but if we go to us which is an interesting and just so one pie the anime guy yeah so again like all the images and oh my God again from Toy

Story yeah sorry but can you see like that was it was that was yeah exactly so they are kind of uh doing all of these interesting IP copies Star Wars and everything but this is not a video Legend of mushroom get 3,000 consecutive free drop why so high pitch the voice oh well I was Legend of slime almost uh some this like oh hey I'm making mushrooms for dinner mushrooms for you see videos well mushrooms now you can play with mushrooms and Instagram God you know I just love video games progress is ke and it's all about only thing like they didn't know is just check the the creative strategy from Legend of slime they if they like they would do way better

creative I can't hear what you're saying at all and I I don't I'm not saying uh that would be because I I did a lot of that those creatives but uh it's just it just doesn't fit it just doesn't fit it's like look at this game gives players wow 3D exactly like why and this kind of 3D is like this looks like World of Warcraft exactly it's like it's yeah but they like they are kind of going most probably for different types of audience with this maybe but this won't do the trick for like the The Sweet Spot of uh cpis and Roi afterwards just this will definitely have way how did they build this like did they build like a separate game for this creative or like this is literally like a different platform not a different game playay yeah nobody cares like they just yeah this is just like different creative and like it's it kind of goes into the [Music] same kind of fun at the

end some kind of fun at the end but it's yeah it's look you see like another ugc and it's like it's not even interesting what the [ __ ] is this upgrades your own unique mushroom Warrior this is the adventure you can't be fake and hell like leg play today get 3,000 consecutive but they also like say fre 3,000 free draws and it's just like [ __ ] they have that they have that in the game they have game can't mention it's like it's they ad something else they get 3,000 this is kind of good because this is like day one versus day 30 kind of level of progression in the creatives which this is from what a battle a mushroom days combat power 10 million how did you get so strong this game AFK

for a while and you get thousands of divine lamps just need a few Taps it's maybe if you turn the volume a little bit down we could speak a little bit maybe okay I'm like that volume is quite low for me so it's fine of course I don't want to have your ears anymore yeah yeah true fair enough no it's like yeah that's that was Facebook man like it's like it's so so weird and uh I look is it even more weird in South Korea or Japan are they like localized I will get there don't worry and you you see like all the all all networks right it's mainly unity and there's like a little bit of upload it's like U guys like I'm pretty sure like if you know how to run or if you are kind of skilled in in uh in UA you just have to have way more budget man like like Legend of SL was like [ __ ] killing it and even on

Google it was like so big on uh maybe they're not mediating on Max which means nothing they can still run a lot of uh iip campaigns this G makes a lot of money on IP and it as Ken mentioned you're kind they're kind of FR front loading all the payments and like it's strong on day one day two or maybe even Day Zero which means lot of signals so Apple in campaigns in like on Day Zero I pie like this man I can imagine like this work so well so well and you have all the like this like I like this end card which is I don't know lot like different characters there right it's like it's not even interesting this sorry yeah this is good thank you yeah no no volume no volume no no I don't know that don't worry I won't but this is kind this is funny but like okay mhm Maybe maybe but this works this works like on default for gacha games doesn't it that

you advertise that you have a lot of free gacha pools I think uh yeah but you can you can do it in a way that it's actually in the end card like saying like main thing in the in the concept kind I see like like literally the whole concept is based on that we give you free free stuff that's the concept I know it should be also on something else I know like the little games and Rise of Kingdoms had this like all these like free something it was either at the end as a coupon code or something and they had all these different ugc types of all real real actors in it and actually interesting I mean it was cringe as [ __ ] but it was interesting you're talking about UI creat anymore yeah I know like like come on you can have like so many I mean this I guess these are good variations in different concepts but again like it feels more like a like a slot game it's like Social

Casino all the money come on this this green there is it yeah yeah this one yes yes okay stream Social Casino like Lally thousands of diamonds dropping and then like three [Laughter] sevens I like thought like I'm so Sor you know yeah like in terms of like yeah the US like they are kind of of everywhere uh and if if you select like this uh it's all Unity integral and app little bit here and there it's like out outside of us of obviously so us is not their main country yet but if I guess if they want to grow on on the west side then that it should it should be way way way better in terms of the and then yeah we have all this like fun stuff outside of us which is basically who is this I know random guy random guy holding random

Korean guy with a sword yeah fantasy one by the way it's a [ __ ] sword no like honestly like those swords won't work like it will hurt you more than the enemy wait are you talking about the UA campaigns or are you talking about no no actually this sword that he's holding in his hands it won't help you you will get hurt from it trust me yeah does he look like a guy who fights with swords bro exactly fights with mushrooms I know yeah maybe this is like special abilities like yeah you fight mushrooms not not real enemies so yeah it's this is like this is the crit yeah all the mes Kore mes exact of course all it works it works for them so iess Kore in Japan for sure I mean yeah like Ken said the peper frog in the icon it goes long way yeah yeah exactly so yeah I mean we have all all all the same all the time like and developers from from Asia they do well in Asia right and they have all the creatives because they know what works

Asia but they don't know what works in us it's just like that's just just how it is yeah you can call me this this applies except Forex yeah okay okay fair fair fair fair fair fair enough fair enough oh a second oops o wow so mushroom W I mean this might work actually in in West yeah yeah Mass battles come on like Mass battles m b always work definitely very very yeah we need mus mushroom versus Zombies easy the whole game is very cute for zombies I don't think so it would work yeah all by the way you mentioned the beginning like oh well there's like something they changed in from to time it's also like different art style so yeah yeah yeah it's definitely different art style about this there you

go what you saying oh Social Casino yeah exactly this also Social Casino come on PS5 on the left hand side for Asia this this isn't soci yeah man like I know like I I remember we went to was like Unity party was like oh we have Lucky Draw what yeah but it's normal because you know Asia lives by the gacha I know yeah true can she be a bit more quiet yeah maybe but yeah it's this definitely works but I can't imagine localized localized yeah yeah but it's this yeah it's good because then they know what works and like we have these discussions always like okay should we just translate things to to penetrate Japan or South Korea like h no just need to properly localized and you need to know what kind of works there so yeah it's like my rating one be uh very generous so what's your

rating five out of 10 yeah was there even a game that that went past eight in your yeah def yes I can't remember really no but we had we had definitely eight we had definitely eight uh I need I need to check I need to check which no game of war no the no but I give some I gave even like nine some game actually you G Nine yeah you I give a nine I gave a n okay Felix four the plac don't lead anywhere they have placements but like they don't like you don't need to press them you do it if you feel like it and it's really not worth it yeah yeah but that's that's like important distinction here like even though it's so successful it's still like stuff to improve I agree here yeah um but I wouldn't do the banners anyway um yeah um my side I would do nine this time because this is very very very complex to do where you're building

on a base of something else and then you're actually very heavily improving it and these guys really heavily improving it I think especially with the lamp mechanic turning gacha into like the idle core game playay I I haven't seen it yet I think like this this is very Innovative and then the social layer it's kind of stitched from like different things but for me it kind of works well like I I I definitely agree with what Ken said that like for whales and like paars kind of portion of the economy it's not enough and they could be making more out of it but the whole kind of farming shroom like whatever stealing mechanics and like all these things especially the map the old school map they have the shared space in the guild I think it's very very nice so for that like I definitely kind of he done that but yeah as Ken said like the not having price segmentation is like a first grader mistake I'm sorry guys exactly yeah so it cannot be 10 I'm sorry no of course like there's always a pattern as soon as we we give the game a

high high rate with Felix you go like this five and then like there's the other part like we say like it's five or six or four like oh my God this so so amazing eight yeah you go back to those it's always like so true it's so true I just I just realized we always like oh my God this could be so much better like oh this is great which is fair is fair come making two and a half million a day I know I know yes yes that's exactly I know how long stay that's a question and second question is like can you imagine like how much more could they earn if they they kind of fix these two things as well on the maybe on Azor or on U on ads it doesn't matter because it's just so tiny yeah one Public Service Announcement I don't know when we're going to do this but I uh understand there may be some people pissed because we didn't do soft lunch sonar and review radar for some time now and it's kind of du so maybe we'll get to it at some point in like a little bit more special format

to look into it because yeah we'll definitely keep this we're keeping brawl star veryy heavily on our radar from our last discussion we'll get to that we see you guys we see you guys yeah we see you guys yeah definitely uh but yeah there's a lot of interesting games being soft lunch of course we're looking at them at some point we we talk about don't worry we didn't forget about those we're not going to do reviews forever from now on so yeah going to do reviews forever but it's like so many new games we going to do these things on top yeah we'll see we'll see we'll see again thanks for listening uh and then please keep subscribing our subscriber count on YouTube just pass 7,000 which is amazing the total number of listeners or subscribers around like nine no yeah nine something uh you know we stopped counting it's just too too many people no no no it's no we didn't we appreciate you all yeah yeah thank you for support and join the SL if you want to have like heads up what we'll be reviewing the week after yes it's going to be in show notes and then see you

next time yeah cheers byebye thank you [Music] [Applause] [Music]