📊 Is 24-Month Payback the New Normal? Real ROAS Benchmarks Revealed!

And within genres, we we look at a whole bunch under under each of them. So things like puzzle games, strategy, RPG, simulation, and that's, you know, our benchmarking for casual puzzle games. So what we have down here is all the benchmarks of payer retention and rorow performance across all the casual puzzle games that we have seen so far last year. It's rolling the dice with those coins with the two and a half crew talking and game designs. We're rocking those vibes till the early master tracking data through the cyerspace. Felix like a wizard in disguise. Jack lift us to the high. Two and a half gamers talking

slows are beautiful. Light the way. Click it fast. Don't delay. [Music] And we can we can start. Welcome everybody. This is Two and a Half Gamers and another special episode because we love special episodes. Tonight. Yeah, I know. I'm Felix Bro and we are your hosts. We have super special guest from PVX partners. ZJ, thank you very much for coming. Can you introduce yourself? I mean, you can also talk about PVX partners even though we talk about you guys every episode, but you can you can yourself as well. No, it's great. Great to be here. My name is ZJ. I'm co-founder here at PVX and also the head of underwriting and analytics. So, what do we do at PVX? We finance gaming companies as well as consumer app businesses. We provide user acquisition

financing which means that we we invest directly into our clients marketing spends and we essentially are a credit facility to help them scale and um yeah things have been going quite well. We have been helping and supporting people. Nice. Very very good. Very good. Awesome. So today we are talking about the main thing that everybody wants to know which are the benchmarks benchmarks everything and since you are working with a lot of companies you have quite an interesting database of real data no like here and there uh type of data stuff down from ad networks. Yeah yeah yeah yeah which you're working with. So, all right, let's let's let's let's get this on and start like talking about benchmarks because it's like super super hot stuff. So, just for context, like just in last year, we looked at over 200 companies

and around 200 to 300 games in total. So, we have quite a good amount of data set that we first party deterministic data that we that we looked at and we studied to form part of this report. So this is really deterministic data that's real and we of course anonymize it so that there isn't any important client information that it goes out everything is all aggregated or averaged out but we we are looking specifically during the the date ranges from January to December last year because we just want to isolate the trends that we are seeing most recently and it's also important to note that when whenever we talk about rorowass test metrics in the report. It's always on a net basis and and we count IP revenues, we count IIA revenues and any other subscription revenues. All these are net of platform fees. I know the the Apple 30% platform fees may be

kind of you know going away next time. Uh but for now maybe we have taken kind of that that 30% haircut for for most of the games. Yeah. So, so this is kind of you know the data that we've gotten in in-house proprietary from a clients. So I I would I would say that even though this is um you know a lot of data that we have it wouldn't be a onetoone representation of the entire market but I would say directionally this would give quite a good you know guideline as to where the market is heading. I think the uh the 3,000 data points is that's pretty significant amount of data I would say because yeah and you're working with companies with a lot of good data points with cohorts that are measuring over time revenue it's like I think we are

looking at the good data set in here so perfect awesome So just going into the first trend that we are seeing is that in last year huge increase in UA cost um through the roof you were you know spending a dollar to acquire yeah exactly so it's almost up 100% in last year and uh what we are seeing this being attributed to main channels applvin unity being you know the the usual suspects where most people are spending and driving up competition. You know, we we are seeing the largest spike in UA cost going up in Q4 last year. I think that kind of coincides with you know holiday season most publishers ramping up spends during that time. Wonder if you guys are seeing the same thing as well. What what are other gaming studios doing to combat this? Yeah, I think the the fun

starts before Black Friday. I feel like I think you that's Black Fridays the ECPMs are usually bigger than than in December now, right? So that's uh usually the weekend before Black Friday and Cyber Monday is the highest ECPMs at least for the last two years. And then afterwards in terms of the UA the costs are going up and with the being the peak I think around Christmas I mean the competition is there. It's like not only gaming anymore. It's the e-commerce and all the brands gearing up for the the Christmas and now well it was always Facebook well Meta and then Google kind of and but now Applavin is going to be I mean in for UA people it's going to be tough for Apple it's going to be amazing because now they're opening up to e-commerce and they're going to bank on this heavily. uh and that's what I think they they started doing in US last year

and the end of the year they opened up the the e-commerce uh in the beta and now as soon as they open it up for the whole world basically it's not going to be only a terrible situation in the UA for Google and and meta but it's also going to be very tough on upload which well it's only going to make my life worse the life of applian absolutely amazing yeah and and What we are seeing some of our clients do to combat this increase diversifying into different channels away from the main channels. We have one game that we are financing Star Brew Cafe that's almost entirely marketing through Tik Tok right now. I know. Yeah, it's the it's the it's it's a great game. It's they're doing super super well and yeah 80% it's Tik Tok basically. So also I want to mention this the Q4 spike in terms of the UA costs like some

people are kind of in this times decreasing the spend but look it's also known this like holiday season for a high kind of opportunity for like monetized payers and there's always special offers around Christmas and throughout the whole December. So even though it's really it's more expensive in terms of the CPIs but also you can get really higher LTV from the players some I mean I can I can understand why people are decreasing the spend. You can't kind of combat all of the all of the gaming studios and now you need to kind of tackle the competition of from e-commerce but if you have the money then you just spend against even higher CPIs because you can get higher LTVs afterwards. Yeah. And speaking about e-commerce, what we are hearing from the market is as of last month, a lot of them have cut their their marketing budgets. Ever

since liberation day, we're seeing we're no longer seeing any more Teimu ads, any more Shin ads. Yeah. So, so I think for this year we we do expect this to you know largely come down a little bit but we also expect there to be more spends as uh as you see in iOS that margin being uh being higher for iOS going forward and game studios will be more willing to spend more. Look, it's just, you know, like there's a lot of spend from e-commerce now. It's going to be a little spend shift to iOS thanks to the the web shops and the the last ruling that. So, it's going to be I mean, it's just yeah, shift uh your view from left to right. It's basically going to be still very competitive. But yeah, the interesting thing I'm I'm seeing, right, like sure, there's Shien and Teemo, right? and they're still spending a lot. But you'd be surprised how many ads I see from e-commerce in the clients that I manage. That's from

like carpets, fire extinguishers, random clothes. Like one of the biggest advertisers in one of my largest games that I manage is a fire extinguisher company. Like it's just so wild. It's just everything e-commerce, right? Yeah. Well, look, I mean the e-commerce trend, but if you're a US company and you're US based, then it should be fine. But he would definitely was a very big spender on Facebook especially. But then yeah, now it's the time for US companies to shine, right? So they're not going to go away. Of course. Look, and the next trend that we saw last year was that monetization also went up, but not, you know, keeping pace with the CAC inflation that we saw. So on average we are seeing our pool coming up by 15% last year and what we are seeing primarily driving this increase is this

phenomenon of people hopping onto hybrid monetization. So the traditional AP heavy games like strategy, Forex they're they're all moving into playing rewarded ads nowadays and even for the heavy admon guys we are seeing them going into IP type monetization as well so that they are able to you know make sure that they have that longer term monetization aside from just just ads we all know is good for shorter term monetization. Um we there are being increased VIP monetization across the board last year where people are targeting wheels and targeting power users and and that is what we are seeing kind of driving up that monetization. But I think you know there is still a lot more that can be done down here to further increase this. I think this year it will be generally going up as well as at least for iOS

where we are seeing monetization improve because of web stores coming into the fray. I think this will be expected go to go up even further. I expect you when you uh work with so many different games that you will have a webop uh benchmarks as well at some point in the future. That's going to be very interesting to see. That that that will be that will be good. So CJ, if I'm understanding this correctly, what you're saying indirectly is that there's a bunch since e-commerce is moving in more and more into mobile, you're saying that there's a lot of games that will be priced out of the market and no longer be profitable as a result of that. No. So actually in fact the games are still profitable, but I would say less so compared to two years ago, three years ago. Yeah. Margins are getting thinner. What we are seeing I think if we can go just straight to this chart where we are measuring rorowes performance what we are seeing is almost

a 20% decline in rorowes. So what this translates into is if your game was previously paying back in 10 months last year it would be paying back in 12 months. Ah yeah that's what we kind of it's it's always something that we always discuss during the conferences and all these like different discussions like 4 a.m. especially discussions uh that we have but nobody was able to to actually give us the data points. Yeah, like always, oh yeah, pay are getting longer, but okay, where where are the data points? So here, okay, so you see, so you see it actually. Yeah, exactly. And but finally, we also see developers accepting this payback expectation and just tweaking their their mindset to being, you know, acceptable of this kind of outcome. And we also hear of certain games going out and targeting three four years payback windows.

But tell us a little bit more about the type of type of the game because was like casual games I guess. Yeah. So these would be casual games but the range of spends that that they are doing would be in the range of 20 30 million a year a month sorry a month a month. Yeah. A month. Yeah. Okay. So so these are crazy amounts of spends and as a result of that they definitely do see payback periods being pushed back quite a bit. Yeah. Because what what what happens always is and people need to understand like how this this kind of payback works. So you have a small spend which you're basically targeting your very like core users. You have like thousand per day then you can you can get that money back in 30 days easily because you're that's the core audience that you want to target. Then you increase the spend. You kind of go go beyond this core audience and then it's kind of the the potential reach is higher but also you're not targeting the core audience only it's other people. So then the payback kind of prolongs. So

yeah you spend 10k 20k 40k per day and then in instead of one month you your payback is three months but still you get money back. It just takes longer. It just takes longer. Yeah. Yeah. until you are kind of satisfied with the money that you are getting and you are actually getting it, then it's fine. You just need to accept that it's a different mindset. Of course, if you're spending 20 million a month, it's going to take some time until you get till you get it does because with 20 million a month, the CPI increase dramatically obviously and then the LTV increase as well, but it's just the LTV curve takes longer to actually reach that CPI. Exactly. Also, you know, aside from just getting paybacks, I think most gaming studios, at least those that are profitable, are expecting to get, you know, a return on their marketing spend. So, they're not targeting just 100%. Targeting 150%. So, what that means is if your games are taking three, four

years to pay back, that means that your profits only start rolling in from years five and year six onwards. So, that's crazy to us. Yeah, that's that's really crazy. Yeah. But you look if you have a match free game like we don't need to name the names obviously we talked about it million times so many of them some people are just playing this game for 10 years so it's like it's the the LTV curve after day 90 is just flat line until year nine exactly right that makes that makes a lot of sense but also it's kind of dangerous if you're a small company I'm not sure it's this is for Yeah, it does get a bit dicey when you're managing cash. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wait, are you saying some people need a UA partner? Financing partner. Financing partner. Yeah. I mean, if you if you do want to take your paybacks to three, four years and you are looking for

someone to finance that growth, you know, please feel free to to drop us an email. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was a nice that was a nice plug that we usually usually usually do during the the podcast. Nice. Awesome. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. And also what what we are seeing underlying this trend is two things I think from a retention perspective. Uh the yet the green line the light green line at the top represents revenue retention. So we see this going up last year. The dark green line is representing payer retention and we see that slightly down for the year of 24. So what kind of insights that we are getting is that yeah what does it what does that even mean? Yeah it seems like revenue is getting more and more concentrated within the smaller payer base. So it's concentrated within power users whale dynamics within games but that overall

revenue retention which is monetization does seem to be on an uptrend and as we saw in the previous slide our pool is up and monetization as a whole is up. This is scary because there being so much revenue concentration risk within a small number of payers. But if you were to lose a bunch of them, that's a huge blow to to is your cohort quality. And to replace this payers as we see it's becoming increasingly more expensive to acquire a new payer. Is is it possible that there's any skew data in your data set? here you have like one big app or game that has this or is this actually like a lot of clients so it's like not skew data cuz that's quite scary. Yeah. So I would say this is probably a weighted average so it probably is scaled to the biggest spenders within our data set but but

other than that like you know it's I would say it's pretty diversified in terms of categories and genres. So this would be generally what we're seeing. I mean, you know how it how it works, Felix. 20% of your play players are making 80% of your revenue. Then all of these kind of pairs are some of these you squeeze more more money out of them as you go. Yeah. But it would be a bit um worrying if it's 10% generating 90% of revenues. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's true. That's true. That's true. So I think the focus for for us would be you know getting getting our clients and games that we finance to focus heavily on payer retention making sure that that at least gets sustained or you know any degradation in payer retention is managed well so you don't end up having

to replace new payers at a at very high cost. also is this uh if I'm reading this this correctly on the left hand side we have actual January of 2024 and then on the right side that's December that's December yeah that's great so what might be happening here and I'm doing this quite a lot we already talked about it it's like it's higher costs obviously on the on the UA side of things for December So that's why that's maybe why the kind of payer concentration is down or retention is down. And then I do a lot of remarketing in the Q4 especially in December. So it's basically squeezing the most out of the the pairs afterwards. Interesting. Makes sense. Okay. And maybe just going down

into some insight. This is a very interesting graph. Yeah. Yeah. So what we see in our data and we we do a whole bunch of prediction analysis and and we also have our proprietary in-house machine learning model to be able to help us predict what is long-term ROS performance based on a bunch of different indicators and different bunch of signals. So things like revenue retention, payer retention, ROS performance, how much the clients are spending, we use all that information to be able to predict the aor curve for that game. So what we are seeing is what are the best indicators of predicting payback. There there are two indicators that we are seeing stand out to us. The first being M1 rorows which is you know early prediction of um your your ROS performance. What we see correlates is

if you're getting 40% M1 rorows that likely translates into a 6 months or less payback period. If you're getting you know 25% or lower M1 rorowes that typically translates into 12 months or longer payback. And if you're anywhere between 25% and 40% That's 6 to 12 months payback. This is of course, you know, a broad generalization because it doesn't factor into account nuances by different categories, different genres of games. But but this is kind of what we are seeing at the overall data set. And aside from M1 rorows, we also see D14 payer retention being quite a strong predictor of longerterm ROS success and performance. Yeah. I wanted to ask like where's the the retention coming into this uh equation because uh I have this

example. So we had we had a game where the day seven ROAS was like 70%. Everybody's like, "Oh my god, this is like, oh, this is going to scale to to the moon." But then that 30% to get to 100% ROAS took us 11 months. That was kind of problem. That was that was the problem in that equation. Yeah. It's a balance that you need to Yeah. It's a it's this balance between rorowes like fast rorowes and longer term payer retention that's more durable and you need to balance this two out because what we are seeing in a lot of heavy atmon games is that they squeeze the juice out of their their user base right in like day by day seven day 14 and they get super high ROS but because of the amount of interstitials and rewarded ads that's being you know shown to users a lot of them get ad fatigue and and turn off very very quickly. And

although you may get to 100% payback, but thereafter you don't get that incremental rorowes coming in thereafter because no one's staying. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean that's why we have the the hybrid hybrid casual games these days which have high early ROS but then there's enough depth in the in the games that kind of supports the the long-term retention. Exactly. Yeah. I would also say that you know this is kind of a broad data set and we are able to get very very precise in our predictions and we now offer a service on our platform called Lambda which essentially enables a client you know a game studio to plug in their data into our system and be able to generate very very specific ROS pro uh projections for their games and right now it's all available for free

for anyone who comes onto our platform and you know it's an easy integration with their MMPs like at apps flyier and adjust so with within I would say two two to four hours they can get access to this benchmark and then this rorow projections will be up in a day or or two okay so again how does that work is the it's tied to the the previous slide yeah so so this is this essentially is the the data underlying that, but we are able okay offer a service to to clients on to to be able to project out how their cohorts are doing and and this is of course kind of all available for free right now. Just hop on to our website pvxpartners.com should be quite straightforward down there to sign up. Is there a big button that appears if you have good enough uh like cohorts that you can get financing there? There is it's a it's a secret button I would say. It's a secret button that we that

we do that we do enable and then um we also come up with like a like a legibility report a funding eligibility report that essentially scores a cohorts um on on a scale of one to three and beyond a certain metric in that scoring system can expect to get a call back from us um to on on high level terms for the financing. Yes. Okay. Nice. Yeah. I think next thing that we are seeing is yeah a breakdown of where the spans are going to different channels and this in particular is for the casual segment. We we do also have details for other categories but you know given given the focus on this channel on casual games this is where we kind of can spend more time on. We are seeing I think 50% of spans being through appli and then followed by Google and unity almost

holding hands then meta and some other channels that are like mint integral and adjo there are smaller channels but I would say largely applo unity and google are the main channels that people are spending on that's crazy different from four years ago and what's even more crazy that stands out to me in that chart is basically that Meta is 11.24% and they're only spending on Android and no iOS, right? And Google's kind of spending on both, right? Cuz there's no like in in the apps that I manage like meta is no like there's nowhere to be found any meta demand on iOS, right? Or that's only from fan, right? Or from Facebook audience network. You mean in terms of the monetization? Yeah. Yeah. But then then you have Wow. But this is kind of uh this is the UA side of things. Yeah, this UA side of things. Yeah, it's the other way around because uh what this

kind of suggests is something that we've been talking about for for a while. Every time we review a game, Lavin is on the number one or number two spot. I mean, all in the last year, like yes. And then the there's like always this these different um ranges like if you are 50% that's okay 30% would be better but 50% is fine. Then you have the other side of the coin where like the other companies that are like 80% of up loving spend or 90% of up loving spend or 100% up in spend and that's very dangerous. It's very very very dangerous. I ran a survey on on my subscribers uh just to see like where what's your biggest UI channel in terms of the spend on iOS versus Android. iOS was like Apple loving absolutely across like across the board and then there was a little bit of of Facebook as well but then also Mint

integral and Google even on iOS but then when I asked about Android it's like Google all over the place and then Applavin as well and then everything else. So it's Applavin is just always there and uh it's not going to get anywhere anyway. Yeah, they they really are dominating the space it seems at least for casual games. We do see a different dynamic across core games and real money games and subscription apps. But yeah, I would say for casual it's quite it's uh they are really dominating. But what's also interesting Yeah, go ahead. Think about even if you think about the subscription apps the applian is is is there. not the top spender but it's definitely in the UAM mix which again like Felix mentioned it wasn't here like a year ago there's always like Facebook Google thank you very much and then now it's like it's integral there there's appla as well they're using playables uh

the subscription apps it's yeah it's going in the in their direction yeah for sure for sure and I think what's surprising to us is when we do benchmark the performance of each channel. We are seeing quite a different story when it comes to rorow performance in that even though applovin is where most of the spans are going to, we do see better performance coming out from Google and unity which are the orange and yellow lines at the top. So quite a bit of a divergence in terms of where performance is coming compared to where spends are going to. But of course, this is all data that's based on lastclick attribution. So there could be some multi-touch attribution that's going on in in this case where it's actually explain that a bit for people who are just joining us because that's a very important point but I just want to make sure you

highlight it. Yeah. No, for sure. So, so this could be the case where a game studio was actually spending on AppLin that their campaigns and creatives were all through AppLin but because of attribution related issues where it's a multi-touch attribution where it's actually the you know last click attribution is is what's captured in this data set. So they the first click attribution would be appli but the user subsequently clicks on Google or unity ad and that's what being that's what's being recorded in this last click attribution here. So although the first click would be an app ad that the user actually interacted with but essentially Google and app unity would have stolen that um that the attribution in the end. Yeah. So look, you see Felix, you see an ad on on AppLin. You click, you go to the store, but you don't install. This go on with your day. Then you see the

same ad on Tik Tok or Unity. You click it's like let's download. And then you download and start paying. But then the all revenue is going to be attributed to to the Unity which was your last touch point basically. But honestly it should be shared between Unity and Applavin because Applavin was the first point but then the last point was Unity. So that's what can be happening here which is absolutely happening everywhere in the industry. Yeah. And in fact they should be sharing the kind of the share of the revenues like 20% attributed to Zepploin 30% attributed to Unity and so on. Oh, ZJ, how long are you in the industry? Come on. It's never going to happen. It's never gonna happen. 10 years. I've heard the same argument. I'm like, "Yeah, sounds great. Good luck."

Yeah. Good luck executing it. Exactly. That's why I think that's why Appin has like six clicks to actually exit the exit the creative just to be sure that you are not not doing uh you know, you're not into anything else. Yeah, I mean that's amazing. Hey, that's part of the story. Let's let's call it that. Oh, sorry. If we go back uh in the in the previous slide. Yeah, we do have this feature on our dashboard as well that allows our clients to see benchmarks of where they are performing visav different channels and different categories. So, it's benchmark based on category and based on genre. And down here folks are able to see where how they perform and also within channels. So in meta in Google and applovin where are they ranking compared to you know other competitors within the same category and genre which could be

helpful in being able to benchmark performance and then informing your your UA decisions as well. Z this is this is super important like people are always asking me like hey so what are the benchmarks for day one day seven day 30 roas like how are we doing well are we doing bad like should we do something else it's like people don't know so this is perfect because then you can you can like I'm doing actually quite well maybe it's fine nothing is wrong with me it's just maybe we can we can push a little bit uh the budget here and there. Exactly. And we use this on a day-to-day basis for our underwriting purposes when we look across games to finance, but we thought, you know, it'd be interesting to give this tool out also to game devs and studios and UA teams to be able to let them track their performance and see where they can improve. So an example

would be some games where they would see that they're underperforming in M1 ROS but very strong in the later months ROS and and that means it's you know it's just a different strategy that they are engaging towards in their their whole life cycle. It's the same thing as I mentioned with the with day seven 70% but then the the rest is day one it's one year basically and you just need more data points in that LTV curve if if you're underperforming on month one doesn't really mean anything if you have strong monetization points afterwards and that's what this is all about exactly it has to be a very holistic view when it comes to grading and assessing saying ro performance and I would say what works for one game or one genre wouldn't be the same across different genres. There are a lot of nuances across genres and across categories as well.

How many categories do you have at the moment? We we do look across uh the main categories being casual core real money and subscription and within genres we we look at a whole bunch under under each of them. So things like puzzle games, um, strategy, RPG, simulation, but you know, BA, you are mentioning kind of genres and categories. I thought it'd be interesting to show you something. And that's, you know, our benchmarking for casual puzzle games. So, and then and you know, I you know, I do see a lot of casual puzzle games being being mentioned and brought on today's show. So I thought this would be interesting definitely for you guys. So what we have down here is all the benchmarks of payer retention and row performance across all the casual puzzle games that we have seen so far last year. Um what we are seeing is there

being quite a difference between the top performing cohorts. you would see down here what we coin as the 80th percentile cohorts and the the the rest of the the cohorts that we are seeing. So there is that there is a huge delta with between the the top cohorts that we are seeing even in both um payer retention at the top chart and the rorowes performance. So that's one. On a payer retention perspective, we are seeing the best cohorts reach about, you know, 50% M2 payer retention. Then by M6 that drops to around 16%. But the long-term retention is 6%. So this is quite interesting because typically you would see casual puzzle games and you would think that there is low retention and you would expect you know low single digits in 2 3% but we actually are seeing the top games and

top cohorts being able to maintain retention out even into the long term. Yeah that's why they can can target the year three or four payback. Exactly. I would love to see this graph if I could break it out with games that have in-game ads and that don't and to see if there's any big impact on having it or not. That would be that would be interesting. Yeah, maybe in our next year's edition of this report. Happy to kind of dive. I will hold you to that because I've been in some LinkedIn arguments recently where that would have come very handy. Very handy. Yeah, very handy for casual game especially. Yeah. And from a payback perspective, when we look at rorowes, we do see the best cohorts getting to almost 200% rorowes by month 12. And and the median I would say the sixth year percentile cohort that gets broken even in in 6 months thereabouts at 100%

rorowes by M6. Yeah. So if you if you look at this this chart again 100% M6 rorowes that kind of correlates to 40% M1 rorows is in this benchmark as well. Yeah. Processing data processing. Yeah. Yeah. But the the casual puzzle game genre is definitely one genre that we do spend a lot of time looking at and it's it's it's the largest data set within our entire sample. We we are seeing quite a lot of interest and and flow coming out of this these clients and we are tracking performance here quite closely but we are quite bullish on this entire genre. There are a lot of product innovations that we are seeing coming up and a lot of marketing efficiencies that we are seeing UA teams um dive quite

deeply into creating new creative strategies looking into new channels doing very creative things with uh influencers very very deep. Nice. Okay. So this is this is all out on your website. People should go check it out and then ideally plug their data in so they can play around with the projections so you can call them afterwards. Help me argue better on LinkedIn and help our help uh argue better with different games. Oh, it's perfect because you really want numbers and benchmarks and they want to always compare to the the best in class in the industry and see if they are close or far. That's good. And previously you would have to call up your ad manager at Meta

or at Google to ask about the CPIs, but now with this platform Yeah. So you have the CPIs as well and the the ROS numbers. Perfect. That's good. Which is basically real data. Exactly. What what do you want to share with the with the audience uh as well besides the the benchmarks and anything else that you you want to share with the guys? Well, except like go to the pvxpartners.com and then just check the the RA benchmarking. No. sell selling your soul. What what what I would say is um go on to the platform do integrate with our with our solution lambda. We provide benchmarks. We provide you know cohort monitoring platform. We provide financial projections and this is all free. Um and and it's our way to kind of give back to the community and be able to allow developers to track their

performance and also see if there they are eligible for our financing. And if okay, if you are eligible, we would be very very um you know um helpful in being able to help you scale your UA without giving up your equity positions, without diluting your equity even further. So yeah, it's uh happy to be to be of service and be helpful to this community. DJ, thank you very much for for coming. Also guys, uh dear listeners, thank you very much for for listening to the episode. You will get you'll find all the links in the in the show notes with the contact as well. So yeah, thanks. If you found this useful, please share your comments under the video. let us know. Join the Slack channel. We're all there. And again, ZJ, thank you very much for coming and sharing. Thank you.

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