IP / Brand Crossover Development | PGC Digital #1

so ladies and gentlemen it's great to be here in this digital connected world we have David Kim with Sony who's wrangling all the different heads of Sony for crossover into the video game industry john Eberhardt was at the coast imagine Gathering is now wrestling monsters inside magic the gathering that new crossover Lance Prix formerly of Club Penguin now Rockets nail and box critters and in games his own board game company as well which had a huge hit on Kickstarter and Neil shaundra formerly a flight deck which was a 3d interactive device so now a verse and myself I've done everything from wargaming to mobile games to startups and Kickstarter's and everything that crosses over to toys and product design as well so we are going to get started here and I'm hoping these guys are online because we are going to see their faces here shortly there we go I see that versus muted though but Lance

and John and David are here and ah there we go we've got videos on one the rest of you guys hoping but their faces up here shortly as well two on that part but the first question we had and we discussed this quite a bit actually in our meeting last week was how we're gonna define IP and brand what does it mean to the company into the individual so I'm going to start off and ask David first to answer that question then John then lance and then Neil so David Kim if you can answer that question to you what is Sony defined as IP and/or brand and how do they look at it so I think when you really think about it and the most simplest terms an IP is essentially a collection of ideas you know whether it's a script whether it's a video game you know whether it's a movie TV show

book whatever it's essentially at its core a collection of ideas and then how that relates to brand is that brand and branding if you've done it correctly is a shorthand for the audience that you're trying to to communicate the entirety of that IP and all the ideas contained within so you think about something like you know a movie like ghostbusters right when I when you say Ghostbusters is a brand it brings all kinds of ideas into your mind if you're familiar with it whether it's no proton traps you know proton blasters Stay Puft you know Slimer a the ecto-1 new york city to firehouse it really is a way of you know kind of encapsulating a bunch of ideas in a simple phrase awesome I appreciate that John I would agree with that from the standpoint that really IP is about

trying to bring together a collection of not only communal thoughts but also really it's a way to go ahead and pull together all the different concepts that really establish a broader ecosystem from the standpoint of knowing that there's something way deeper every time that everyone looks at and something that's an IP they can say oh I can imagine myself in all of this because it's just a wedge of that pie the brand itself is that that little icon that that really identifies it and dreams up the entire universe or at least symbolizes the whole universe for the sake of magic it's the back of the card for the sake of dungeons as dragons it's a 20-sided die it's it's a dead type of iconography that really represents the tip of that iceberg I appreciate that lens um my thoughts are is uh I usually start with brand because I feel that it's usually where you start you your brand is something

you create it's the relationship between yourself the creatives and the property or the story the world the characters and the fans and how they interact with that property that bond creates memories relationships smells sights sounds etc which of course in like if you look at coca-cola and all them you think of coca-cola is this cool refreshing drink on a warm summer day on a beach because most of us have that we've associated the two together and we get this positive thing myself personally I take intellectual property it's literal term of intellectual property is something of value and sale and we build our businesses around but that value comes from the audience's relationship to the brand and as that grows we can create financial models and business models around it a little harsh exertion but yeah I see the two is the two hands the relationship of the customers and the business of our

industry okay I appreciate well - Neal yeah I think I kind of agree with everybody here but I think the product the IP is what it is and the brand is how you feel from a consumer standpoint and how or the or how that product makes you makes you the product makes you feel so the you know IP is something that is more tangibly attributable to you know valuation wise as well potentially I believe and then the brand is really the goodwill associated with that and where that company is positioned in a consumers mind both extremely important that different ways to quantify evaluate so what do you feel is not an IP or a brand well I think that you know it's

tough to it it IP could be actually even the reuse or the the brand be the the application of someone else's IP as in the case of you know these various game engines okay so create IP out of somebody else's IP you know either with credit or without and that obviously votes the legal questions associated with licensing and stuff right so but I think IP pretty much can be whatever you can you know claim is originated or a value added from you know from from one's own efforts and brand wise you know I think

the trademarks the copyrights to any of the visual or sort of you know any of the characteristics exclusive to that brand you know sort of fall into that pocket which is kind of why counterfeiting and fakes are you know really sort of protected or you are defended against buying you know legitimate brands gotcha I appreciate that David what do you feel is not an IP or a brand this name i crate oh wow that's kind of tough to answer it's kind of like saying don't think about the monkey in the room all you're gonna do is think about the monkey in the room right right so I mean I guess going back to let's say an example of you know coca-cola right so what isn't part of that IP would be the can or the bottle well I feel the bottle is actually a part of that IP if you take the iconic shape that they treat

you know what would be the the you know poor you know so that wouldn't be part of the brand or the IP right because the a little bit um can is a generic thing but as part of the product right you want the product out of it sorry I can spit me so you know and then what is not part of the brand is yeah it's kind of hard to say you know again you revert to the can or something that's generic right I mean generally what's not part of an IP or a brand from a legal standpoint it's something that's you know so generic that you can't actually qualified as being distinct and unique to that particular IP or brand gotcha I appreciate that John to ask you this the same thing as well to as I know that Wizard of the coast has gone after a lot of different aspects to the creation of that's gathering into the whole asset of tapping on cards but for you guys what is not considered brand or IP when you

guys create I would say something that is kind of like everyone else has said so broadly define dead land so I'm gonna and kind of go back to one of the things that you were talking about IP is about something that you can trademark if it's something that you can't trademark or if it's something that falls outside of IP law then it's still a universe but it's not something that is really IP it's not something that's really identifiable as something that is unique to that overall brand that overall experience something that is let's say open source if you will the a flag flag for a country that is something that is arguably a brand but it's not an IP because it represents too many different things to too many different people gotcha I appreciate that as well to Lance this questions for you and then we'll go to Neil and then John and David with this as well how does your company execute on brand awareness right now

with community my brand awareness so as I shared I believe brands is a relationship between your product or your IP and your fans or customers this has been off actually a previous question of what is not a brand or an IP before video games I was actually a marketing and graphic design and I was always amazed that people thought that creating a logo and slapping on your store became a brand I said well it's not brand you have built a relationship yet so to this question of community and building up brands it's it's right part of it so with Club Penguin and children's entertainment and different properties I've worked on that conversation that we have with our audience at all times be it the voice you give away hey we're working on an update this is what we're doing it's very engaging it's a very the

see the truth is it's not a two-way conversation but you always try to place it in such a wording is because the simple fact is there's a million children and they're all writing you so you can't actually answer every one but you try your best to talk to the voice that's coming back and forth and you sound like you're listening and we do we take our feedback and listen as well as we can and that link that we found in our media was the part that started to endear audiences to your property and create a brand there's a relationship that starts to happen what I found is whenever we just put out an ad or notice or a blog post that says updates to features there's no relationship there but if you just simply tone it in such a manner that our customer support teams are engaged and saying hey seeking your feedback or asking questions or we heard you the audience that you were looking for this

direction and these are the features we've been adding and we've been considering carefully your ideas that just creates unbelievable engagement that we found with our virtual worlds and mmo's hope that helped yeah that doesn't that part so Neil I'm gonna let you bring in this same question but the you do physical product as well I mean you created actually I was I actually spoke about to the sessions before the one prior to this product and what we've done which is part of the reason I wanted to be on this panel I thought I noticed that you and I and you were moderating Seth so I urged for it we should that was that we have essentially used gaming technologies to create a environment that allows brands to be interacted with by consumers before they buy the real

life good and I was actually gonna see right there if I was able to do a screen share into my window but actually I probably could if you don't mind for just one second because that might show sure but that might give us a little bit more clarity of what we're doing here or of how we here we go now I can go there we go so what we've done for example I don't know if that's taking my spot enough so you can see that but what we've done is we have taken models of branded items where we create models of branded items or at great generate those assets so that users can essentially use the game mechanic to to see how those items might

look in their real-life East case so we have for example these all these items which are you know from from particular brands and we've created sort of a configuration tool that's part of our virtual world experience that we've created but it's really got the the value of being on his top sharing screen now and the value there is that it allows it allows us to I stopped sharing that stuff this year it allows us to to promote brands directly within this kind of game environment and although it's not necessarily a shooter game or in an action game where people are running around shooting each other our vision is that brands could be leveraging this platform and what you know something that we as game developers gamers are very you know you know we think of as

very commonplace but for you know non-gamers and for you know ecommerce and online shoppers you know we're seeing this actually being done also by other companies we're not the only one with this idea wayfarer for example which is the big furniture and home goods manufacturer they use these a room configurator solution there's a couple of others out there so I think we're going to see more brand utility man that is different than for tonight for example where you or you know the other you do see brand advertise on games sort of like banner advertising but I think that we're going to see particularly in this environment where our people are sort of there isn't weather content being produced or being consumed because they can't produce video and you know and production and Hollywood now so I think we're gonna see

more of a more of a branded game and simulation type stuff come to market it should this environment continue and even if it doesn't know I appreciate that as well - and that type of awareness which so David I'll push this off to you as well - because in this aspect of building of community Neal I brought up fortnight they of course have teamed up with nerf there are nerf guns now based around fortnight as well - but Sony's done a lot with its brands to build awareness within this community how do you guys look at that it well it's a multi-pronged you know like process right you you have your traditional marketing and advertising then you also have you know which are you know one one way as Lance said it goes it's communicating out to your audience then you have social media channels where there's a little bit more interaction but it's still fairly you know one way you know and then we also

use things like games to help expand that relationship with the audience and you know one of things we focus on when it comes to using video games to enhance that relationship is it's really important that the games accurately capture and reflect what it is about the IP that consumers really love you know I think that's vital if you if you put out a game that doesn't match consumer expectations chances are it won't do well but it also you know depending on how bad the disconnect is can actually harm the relations with the consumers because they feel you don't understand the IP sure but what Sony does there other ways they do awareness outreach to its community besides just gaming around their IP as they plan that across the board well I mean like I said you you know you have your traditional advertising and marketing your social media we do events

occasionally you know I mean last year we had who's the 35th anniversary it goes to posters we did a huge Ghostbusters fan fest all the lot you know you try and reach your your audience and your fans in as many ways as possible the only the only thing that's really key with all your outreach though is that you have to understand the way that your fans see the brand what their perception of the brand is and your messaging has to be in line with that perception otherwise you you do run the risk of harming that relationship because you know the consumers just gonna feel like you know you don't understand me anymore and you know this is kind of having Star Wars right I mean there's been a lot of backlash because people felt that the people who are now running the the IP and the brand the clans felt that they didn't understand what it was what the brand and IP really was anymore I appreciate that as well - that's absolutely correct Jon Mithila this question is well - you

for wat see and then of course we had discussed this beforehand a little bit but since the last Thursday Wizards of the coast of Magic the Gathering is now added Godzilla and monsters into magic so with that destroy our house yeah so how is that for I keep me executing brand awareness with its community I mean technically I don't think Godzilla's ever been and Maja's the gathering is that deviation that will be great or how did you guys plan for that if I may ask well first off just to echo some of the other thoughts as soon as you start to nascar the side of whatever game you've got or whatever kind of property are you're on you lose the trust you lose the trust of the audience from the standpoint that it it just becomes clear that you are and use whatever kind of metaphor you want putting lipstick on a pig trying to go ahead and and shell everything out that that's not what you want to do you

want to go ahead and keep core to the to the central experience for the sake of the Touhou brand that we brought in as far as having Godzilla in the game Coria was always going to be about monsters and it's always been called lair behemoths it's it's all about friggin gigantic monsters that will go ahead and rip your head off sound like anything else honestly yeah I mean this whole thing came out of the fact that last year we did some of the Japanese altar arts Planeswalkers and it was incredibly popular people loved it they loved not only the experience they loved getting those unique cards and those unique arts pieces that absolutely fit in with everything that that we're doing a Korea it just kind of came about from the standpoint that somebody said it'll be pretty cool if as far as these monsters we actually had these these huge reptilian beasts that everybody else knows I don't know if I can legally use

the word guide you but basically have these huge you can use it yeah all right I'm not gonna get a call from a legal department after this but you guys were aware of your community outside of North America that had a love for these and you've brought it now into it which now affects of course other areas as well - absolutely and on top of that what we did again with each one of these cards we made sure that the particular beasts a particular monster that's coming in makes sense with a narrative of the card so these are all for the card each one of these creatures they have the standard rule set that's there but then they also have this alternative art that is just those specialty cards yeah the the funnier fact trust me on this one don't have a card that talks about space Godzilla

with the corona of death because you might regret that one given world circumstances that one up if you can because we're not gonna read write a hundred years from now be very highly collectible on that part as well - absolutely okay so this next question is going to go out and I'm going to have David answer first then John then Landsman meal and the question is this how should you determine the next steps that your company should do for the brand or IP development should you do it in-house print-on-demand or should you find a licensing partner they entertainment company to help you out with it what are those next steps or how should you perceive your brand to see if you're ready for those next steps so David you're on ah that's a tough question because it really depends on where your brand is at at the moment right if you want to start entertaining the idea of doing safe films or TV space shows based

on your brand your brand better be pretty big already you know it or it's gotta have some kind of really interesting creative hook that it can translate into being a film or TV show without you know needing that the fans from your current existing brand you know and then you run the risk of you know your brand's no longer gonna be what it originally was it's now gonna be defined by this new thing you know I think the some of the other stuff you're talking about whether it's sort of extending through physical merchandise you know I think that's something that's fairly easy to do you can do it now especially things like print on demand in even smaller quantities so you can super serve a specific you know portion of an audience you don't have to necessarily have it amass cuz you need to produce some kind of insane minimum run that you're never gonna sell through that your current size and then you have to you know warehouse everything but you know you really have to look at you know where's your brand at how big is your

audience where is your audience you know what else is your audience into because I think that's the whole idea of the crossover right you know with what magic did with you know Touhou and all the guardzilla you know there's a lot of crossover there between fans of those two brands so it makes sense you know we've done stuff like that before you know we did last year we did ghostbusters and transformers now there's a lot of overlap in those fans because they're both probably in fact I think I'm not mistaken both IPS were born in like 1986 so he literally shared the same birthday in terms of a year and you know as and as a result like a lot of the fan base were fans of both because it was like nostalgic to them being a kid so the crossover um helped both enhance both brands and also kind of expanded both brands into you know related fan bases okay I appreciate that very much I shouldn't skip over so lance and I ask

you this question now but I would like to if you can chat about how you guys see this with box Twitter's okay oh can you quickly quickly your mind is property ready for the next mediums yeah oh that's a tough question the I love being a designer and a creative so of course whenever the shiny object passes across my desk and the laser light shines on the floor I'm after chasing it and pursuing it and being completely distracted now from a business point of view that's not always the best thing I think it's good for the creatives and the designers to be considering where your property might exist in the long term or the full vision of an of a property but the timing of when it should or should not do that is very important you need to be there's

two to two parts to it your team or your experts or yourself you need it it's got to be right it's got to be feel right now the problem of course what that is is a lot of times we have the wrong I used to formerly work with Disney and other things we go to these large meetings with lots of experts and they say that this is what we should do but the reality is is once we did it it didn't perform very well that's because sometimes your opinions aren't always the best where I'm trying to go with that one is and then there's testing so how can you validate each of these markets and how can you see if there is an opportunity for some of these things my new my new property is called box critters it's it's the next evolution of Club Penguin it's just how do I deal with this generation of children and their virtual worlds and experiences and how they they want persistent play and I'm exploring opportunities of where could it go with merchandise and toys as

it's something I strongly believe will be the driving factor of the entire property but where to go first is the toughest part and that's from trying to listen a lot to the fans I'm digging through a lot of fan sites and just trying to see what they're doing like what are they expressing themselves with are they making toys are they drawing pictures so they do where they ask for how are they expressing their love of the property already with a hundred thousand players already I can dig through various instagrams and different channels and I can see the birthday cakes being made I can see each of the things so I'm starting to grow as to where it will the right property right crossover exists I hope that helps it doesn't it's not clear i'm of course approaching it as the artist and then occur and then i have to go to the industry and then see what's feasible because some going on molding plastic and hitting a target audience and putting yourself in a store for a

particular age group might not be the right time today i mean i have enough information to know that is the audience that will purchase but i I see it as experimentation this is how I see it but I'm very familiar worked with larger IP holders and there's a lot of discipline to how to get things to market gotcha now I appreciate that very much John Stehr that's up for you now I'm gonna answer it in two different ways first one because it amuses me and secondly because it's a real answer the easiest the easiest way to go ahead and put out a fire is to drop a big-ass log on top of some smoldering embers because if it's not ready for it it will go ahead and put that fire out as far as the way that trying to launch a new brand or launch a new idea it still comes down to the to the triangle in this case the triangle is about the idea the community and really the the marketing behind it or at least the messaging behind it and if you grow any of those out of proportion with one

another it's not going to take off you've got to have something that you build up the interest level slowly over time so that there is an interest level in the very deep and rich universe that you've built out and then you have the campaign behind it if you have something that launches with too much hype in the first place people won't come to it because they're gonna they're going to feel like it's being shoved down their throats if people come to something where there's not a deep backstory or deep sense of content to it they're not going to stick around for long enough to go ahead and not only realize your investment but also the investment of everyone else that's that's put their time and effort into it and if you don't have the community you might have the greatest thing in the world but nobody's going to stick around and therefore it's only going to exist for as long as that paid advertising is around yep absolutely absolutely on that part Neil that question else for you for

you guys how do you find that next step to grow your brand your product that's kind of the that's that is kind of the tightrope that we you know companies need to walk which is at what point are you even going to be successful and engaging them you know if we had gone to on a kid too early if we had tried you know it's the chicken and egg situation right because if you try to outreach to early you don't have enough to hook them with but also on the other hand if you you you do need them to be along you know to be successful I couldn't help when you were when you when you asked the initial question or when you

know John was answering I couldn't help but think of something non-gaming related which or entity an entity non-gaming related which are the Kardashians right look at that that word here on this but I mean it's not gaming but they've done a marvelous job of sort of matching their launches with their you know continued notoriety or sort of publicity of the brand and the example is this Kylie Jenner Kardashian who just did the cosmetics line and because of what she had sort of you know created and then leveraged boom goes to a billion dollars like you know upon launch so I mean that because it is a very extreme example of leveraging one's

existing brand and launching products but I think the idea is right is that you're basically cultivating this this prospect base an audience at the same time as you're prototyping products and pushing them out and if you can if you can you know and if that can be optimized it can be very successful that's 2020 you have to say the horse people of the apocalypse winter dashan's that is true on that part absolutely I believe we are down to our Q&A session on this part and I believe Dave this grandest I'm now first question here to Neil are the branded products limited editions and how can people make money from verse is this question to you the branded products okay so one of the topics actually that I didn't want to talk but because there's a table there's a

round table tomorrow and also because this is a sensitive area which is in terms of regulatory we actually use a block chain based ledger system for tracking the actual goods the virtual items and that's actually not quite ready yet so yes every virtual brennick branded project in our universe is catalogued and that's an important economic sort of that's important an important sort of feature for what it is we're doing and in terms of how we make money as we do a revenue share with any of the asset or property on the brand owners so if people do buy the virtual version of somebody's good there is a relationship with the owner of that IP to share it

with them so essentially you know we've because if we facility position ourselves as a as a retailer or you know a middleman in that transaction and our commission or fee covers the cost of you know maintaining all of this infrastructure that's needed to display all the stuff and how's all be all the assets and the participants that's how we love it okay gotcha David this one's for you for Sony how does Sony look at a partner who wants to get a license with you guys well first of all generally we start with asking any interested partners you know conceptually what is it you want to do with the IP right you know what's the game concept at a high level if we feel that the idea is good it fits with the IP and the brand and then the next question we ask is well are you capable

of executing on this idea properly you know assuming that that's also the case then you know we would go to you know discussion of business terms if we can come to an agreement on that level and you know then we proceed with a deal encamped I'm gonna ask this question what are you looking at for personally what do you think what makes a great in this case pitch is that the team itself were their idea okay it has to be both I mean you know you can have a great idea but if you can't execute on it you know it's gonna fail at the same time you can have a great team but if they don't have the right idea for the IP then it's not gonna succeed either so you do need to be both okay absolutely John I had a quick question for you in regards to wat si and the future of wat si on this part if you can answer it a strange loop which just came out on Netflix just launched their car their board game on Kickstarter but prior to that they were an art book that went to an RPG and that's how they kind

of built their brand where's the coast is known of course for RPGs and everything else is there any future with wat si going into television with any of its ideas concepts I think if there is we're gonna want to do it the right way rather than the way that some of the early D&D films came out even when TSR had a brand I think it comes down to a quality launch on something because it's even the same case with the games that we've got right now just because you've got an IP doesn't mean that it is a license to turn crank for money because eventually that crank will break if you're trying to turn it on something that is just junk that comes out even though I love Jeremy Irons that was one time I didn't meet Jeremy Irons God said but I mean even when you take a look at it if anyone saw the commercial that came out last year it was from a Brazilian car company that did a live-action version of the 80 eighties

cartoons of dungeons dragons it was fantastic it was something that we all shared around the company because I think everyone not only in the community but also in the building wants to see those things done we would love to go ahead and have that stuff done again we're just doing it we will do it with the right partnerships and the rights the right ideas behind it okay and John I just had another question pop up for you hobby stores are suffering badly at the moment as a major outlet for MTG how do you think they will recover us and making survive we're doing everything that we can Donna yeah we're doing everything we can to partner with with the hobby shops from the standpoint of doing a lot of the Friday night magic events with them we're giving them codes we are doing everything we can to go and support them in the case of the acorrea launch we're doing something as far as the timing of the paper when it comes out if things continue as they are we're going to do

everything we can to empower those local local hobby shops really try to help them build out the idea of delivering to to their consumers basically whether it's curbside or direct delivery that is our lifeblood that's our lifeblood not only from the standpoint of the business but more importantly again for the for the players so it is extremely important to us weird we're coming up with plans to go ahead and invest as much as we can and in as many ways as we can with the local hobby shops okay I appreciate that very much last add a quick question for you in regards to Club Penguin of course and the heydays right before Coppa then after Coppa how do you engage with an audience that's younger especially with now with box critters oh because that's building a brand an IP I mean that's an age group that is more self-aware online than at any time the world but you still have parents they're there they're

actually they're actually a highly engaged audience they're consuming content unbelievably fast the key here is to understand that usually children I'm not this is a blanket statement because a lot of some of them are getting their own phones etc but you have to always remember that the younger audience tends not to own the platform or device that they're accessing the game or product from or with so you need to be where they are so I'm not recommending that tik-tok is for young kids but there's a lot of them on it YouTube is doing some interesting new chain these children haven't left these platforms you just need to be on it and speaking to them and speaking what they're looking for it was very popular in Club Penguin just to do endless music videos of penguins doing funny things and dancing and making music the view counts for the millions and millions

millions you can get a lot of your messages across through these videos just short little Hey the theming was pretty simple we're encouraging kids to be imagine a with their imagination gathering group with their friends hang out play so the pattern we just kept going round and round round and they would engage but he had to be everywhere you never knew if they were on their mother's phone or their neighbors laptop or we had enough antidotal stories of just people gathered yeah actually I wrote in my design document because we never did it unbelievable numbers of kids all sitting around one desktop so we never conceived the idea like in one of the Nintendo's with Mario had the helper play model or something where the other person played the other character those types of ideas need to be explored and understand like like I watched my daughter at school and

all the girls are sitting on the bench at the basketball team every single one of them has the exact same mobile game out playing a single player game laughing at each other talking all whole team so you got to look at these patterns and understand how they're playing engaging there are rules where you can't just write to them address them talk to them you can't have a call like this except like that's there's a lot of rules but they're listening they're hearing and they're loud they put they put everything on line yes they do absolutely okay and we are at I believe time that's okay okay oh yeah we're actually playing The Wizard of Oz he is the man behind the curtain okay oh absolutely

this question was actually about branded avatars and clothes but in fact actually I'll put it over to everybody really quick because you all have platforms that could tie in to branded items out there for example there could be a Nike Godzilla on a trading card you want to type of thing John you had talked about you know don't crank that moneymaker machine 200 it breaks but but for your companies for the four of you where is that that middle ground where it's potentially okay to cross over to that brand and I'll do this way I'll let David you go first and then jig on that Lance Emile sure so I guess it really depends if you're talking about a brand coming into the universe of our IP then it has to be a brand that makes sense in that universe right so you know it's it's easier if it's something that's current modern-day versus something that's obviously set way in the past or

way in the future as far as the going in the other direction of putting our ip's into other branded items it's probably more of a look at the audience fit right is the audience for our IP the same as or you know have a significant overlap with the audience for that particular you know external brand yet you know it makes sense then you know we'll do those deals if you know if there's no it's not good overlap it doesn't really make sense for either side probably okay I appreciate that John one of the favorite events that we had in arena was I think was the last Valentine's Day we had day nine versus Danny Trejo we had avatars for both of them so we had Danny Trejo and read it as it tends to do when not saying I want to buy the Danny Trejo we we looked at things like that and saying we're gonna be with that

24 months from now 48 months from now is it gonna really stick out like a sore thumb no offense to Danny Trejo good lord I think I've just put a contract out on my life a machete yes you have exactly as far as something that is going to be brought in as to any kind of license or any kind of IP it's got to be something that will still be understandable and not stick out in a bad way within the license over time so it's got to be something that still is complementary to the overall experience rather than just a shameless cash-grab that's good peace wisdom I appreciate that Lance oh wow before Club Penguin ended a lot of the Disney was beginning to do what they called takeovers which the audience struggled with and I think it was a lot of positioning of how the wording was done an example is if you guys never won

frozen came out the frozen promotional for the movie was of course integrated into Club Penguin which makes sense it's a frozen world frozen characters frozen everything and of course it's a tough one so you know Club Penguin instance or a virtual world or an MMO you are entering that person's universe of course they own it's their space their character their environment their friends there was this pushback of his frozen took away my home yet I'm in love with frozen so it was this tension business-wise you guys said printing the Machine or something like that it made more money that month and subscriptions and you can ever imagine those addresses just like in real life just sold like crazy the and of course they brought back more frozen parties the but there was a lot of it didn't quite fit with everyone so

to have a full takeover for 30 days in someone's environment where they want to hang out with their friends and don't want to participate in frozen was difficult they were pushed out of their own little environment but the people of course that were in love with frozen adored the content and went through it so there's I haven't been able to do a deep the study is that what a solution would be but you do have to honor that audience that that they want a property a certain way or that that that that relationship again the brand they have a trust a relationship of how they they believe their memories and everything or associated something and then you changed it so it had this it was interesting a lot of memory it's made a lot of money okay there's a balance that I appreciate that Neal how do you guys plan do you know the birds well we've actually I mean that's sort of our core

business model you know plan so the idea is to utilize scale drawing scale models of both environments and avatars so that there can be more utility a utility play with the brim and as well as sort of a promotional play so for example if somebody wears a certain size of clothing they can use that that simulation aspect and then in approaching the brands we can say hey you know what this is a way to help with people online shopping problem sizes or improve that so we try to basically make it make sense for you know for like I said the the especially with the environment that we're living in where we can't exactly go on go try stuff on

in a store so we try to assist in that regard again our product sort of was born from the idea of optimizing configurations of products for started with architectural like you know furniture and interior design clothing is more difficult obviously because the non-rigid aspect you know aspect of it but even with with many products like for example like cars you can configure configure a solution for a client and then you know sort of let them play with it before they go online so that's sort of what you know what what our vision is that sounds awesome I appreciate that very much