Inside Xigma Games: The Indie Studio Making Waves in Bangalore!

hey everybody the Indian game development ecosystem is early but with a lot of small independent game studios trying to make a lot of great games for the global market today we're going to visit zigma games which is a studio that's been in operation for about 9 years here in Bangalore India we're going to check out the studio and see the game that they're working on [Music] what's talk about you good to see good to see you

all done to see you all right merry Christmas right sit down here all right hello everyone welcome I am here with the co-founders of zigma games hantu and govalan and we're here to talk about zigma so you guys have been in business and operating for quite a while now right like could you tell me a little bit about how long you have been in operating and how you guys got started yeah so me and Goan started back in 2016 and we both moved to Bangalore and decided to work on games that we as consumers wanted to play at that time but then as we made more games we realized the importance of market and whole games were then decided on that what we want to make based on the market research we did so yeah and then we pivoted to what kind of games we want to make okay so let's talk about some of

your games I see on the wall you have super Nano jumpers you have rhc bonfire the bonfire the bonfire 2 and the game that I became aware of was Metal Haven which I saw at igdc but can you let's let's start with Metal Haven can you tell us like what kind of game is it and what kind of games have then after that tell us more about the games you guys have developed historically yeah so midal Heaven is a Sci-Fi strategy game it's going to be our first freet toplay game as well until now we made only premium games so with metal heaven we are uh taking a huge leap in the mobile freeo play Space so in metal Heaven players can build bases on planets they go from planet to planet to extract their resources these resources will help the players to upgrade their space station and we have a 4X March map in which players will fight and for control of the Galaxy so they can form alliances

they can mine asteroids capture territory okay so you're making a Forex game in but previously you guys have worked on these premium games isn't isn't that a big jump to go from premium is a huge leap for us yeah okay and premium on mobile or have you guys developed on PC before so we have so we have the leased on mobile PC and consoles as well okay and yeah yeah so our previous games we started as a mobile first studio so robc was the first game that we released so that was okay so let's start with okay so super Nano jumpers what kind of game was that so super jumpers was made by himu before I joined okay so that that's a sides scrolling platformer okay with a single touch yeah so all the player has to do is tap on the screen to stop moving it's very much in the vein of uh super meatball yeah so it was inspired from Super Meat Boy at that time I wanted to create a tight controls for

mobile uh which provided the same mechanics as Super Meat Boy but with just single Tab and I was able to do that and I made that game in 3 months I was very fortunate that that game won the Pocket Gamer connect B IND pitch and that had a price money of about $10,000 oh and that gave us that gave us the enough money to sustain to to you know keep making games for for a while okay so then you won that $10,000 and you teamed up with Galan and then you got guys made rhc and what kind of game is rhc so rubek is a minimalist color-based game you have a control over a cube and you move them around and you pick colors on the from the ground and you match colors it was designed thinking about the minimalist games that that were doing good on the on the App Store at that time so we saw that App Store were featuring a lot of minimalist puzzle games and this was 2014 2015 so we want we had enough money to survive for 8

months and we both moved to Bangalore and we thought let's make something that we can make money out of so we looked at what we can make and you know get get returns out of it so that's where the idea of rubic came okay so okay so super Nano jumpers won some money then you guys decided to make rhc based upon what you were seeing Trends in the App Store you guys came to Bangalore why Bangalore why Bangalore because well my hometown is Goa and at that time I didn't want to move to Bangalore but himansu convinced me by saying that here is the ecosystem is the strongest so himansu is from Bal I'm from Goa at the time I used to work in China so we both decided to come together and start our studio in Bangalore okay so then you guys come to Bangalore I guess rubec does okay or does well then you make the bonfire and then how how did you guys decide to make the bonfire so the bonfire one was Goan idea and it was

inspired from Kingdom Newlands and a dark room a dark room was a text based game which was very popular on the app store and then we combined both of them and that's why the bonfire came in yeah so a dark room is a text based browser based game which became really popular when someone ported it to iOS but it was still very much a text based game so one day I just happened to read the blog of the guy Amir ranan and I thought why not make a graphics based version of it so it follows a dark room very closely but with graphics and then as time went on uh I made some gameplay changes and right so it seems like the way that you guys have been making games to date has been seeing some inspiration in the market and then trying to think about how you can make it your own or your own version of what you see in Market is that correct yeah yeah definitely I mean even even if we were not conscious looking for inspiration subconsciously

everyone works that way okay we take inspiration from a variety of sources and then we make a game so did you guys raise any capital or was this completely bootstrapped off of that initial $10,000 from Super Nano jumpers yeah it's it's completely bootstrapped we have been profitable from the third month of when when it when the company existed okay okay so now I want to talk to you guys about okay you guys are nine people in total you're here in the studio which we'll we'll we'll take a closer look at but I want to know more about how you guys think about the company like if you were to describe your company what kind of company is it in terms of like the work culture the environment things like that how would you describe that to other people we are very product focused product driven an output driven company we don't enforce any fixed or particular timing

people are free to come like to an extent when they want and they can leave they can take leaves when they want though we have some some rules but it's not hardly forced we believe that in an in an creative environment we need to give them enough freedom to think and to be self so that they they are self-reliant and so that they can answer for themselves and so that that makes them more responsible sorry so what what do you think about so like there are some artists like Will Smith for example who has famously said that all artists need deadlines do you you disagree with that deadlines are definitely necessary otherwise the scope keeps getting out of hand sure so it needs to keep in check but they're not hardly very hardly forced okay so it sounds like the kind of company you're describing to me is one where you value creativity and just personal freedom is

that is that correct yeah that's correct and I think when we talked before one of the things that we talked about at um local event nearby is about how your work culture has changed though right and and like one of the things that I mentioned is that for example some people I mean Zinga today is famous for being a work life balance company and you know that's one of the main things that they stress about their work environment but fewer people realize that they were super hardcore in the beginning and you know I've met and I know because I met a lot of those guys and you know some of those guys would be working weekends till past midnight every day and now when I say I believe in a hardcore work work at that for example you know a lot of those guys they they hate me right and so but you also started with a hardcore work culture can you talk about how you started and then what happened to change to kind of like the work environment that you have today yeah so when we started it was just go than me so we had

to wear multiple hats and we had limited time and there were lot of things to do so we had no other option other than just giving more and more hours we used to give 12 to 14 hours per day for 7 days a week and we did that for continuously for 3 4 years from 2015 till 2019 but then as we got some profitability and we were comfortable in our shoes and we then we started slowly expanding our team that's when we started slowing down on this hardcore work ethic because at that time we were in a comfortable at a comfortable position but if if we were not profitable we would have been doing the same thing or we would have maybe burnt out by then yeah definitely burnout is a huge thing that we both have went through like after every project yeah okay so then after every project how did you guys did you guys like take a break or something or go on vacation or what what what happened at the end of the projects yeah yeah we do take a few

months of break after every project few months wow few months yeah after bon fire to we were really burnt out we worked for 2 and a half years continuously Non-Stop and the last 6 months were brutal like as you said work life balance it it happens till like till like when you are comfortable when when you are starting out on the project or you the middle of the project but when you are about to release it there are so many things deadlines we have to achieve and at that time it was it was a little so you still also don't necessarily have work life balance now at the end of the project you kind of push to get things done okay cool cool cool and as far as like so you guys have been operating for a long time there must have been a lot of lessons that you have learned mistakes that you guys have made and so when you think back about over this nine years is it yeah n yeah n years nine years what have been some of the biggest lessons that you've learned my biggest lesson would be that change is inevitable and being too rigid

is not fruitful you have to be agile you have to think on your foot sometime if things are not working out you have to Pivot you have to iterate and evolve so change is part of the process embrace it yeah definitely we have to change with what we see in the store what we see in the in the basically what the things which are out of our control we have to change according to that and Company wise I think one of the lessons that we have learned is that or one of the mistakes that we made is that we should have hired a little earlier yeah we were slow on that yeah and also firing we should have started firing also a little earlier than we started now we're here in India and Bangalore and one of the things that some people ask me about often is really around the Indian game development ecosystem and why have Indian game

development Studios not been able to compete on a global basis right certainly in the local market there are game studios that are doing well but not really globally and so when you guys think about your own experience and I know you you you go to international events like GDC so you have met Global Studios what do you think is the gap what's missing between Indian game development Studios and other Studios so that there could be more Global success I think until now there has been a mismatch B of talent and money so in some cases there has been talent but they haven't had the resources to make their project and in some cases the money has been there but maybe the team wasn't experienced but I think we are seeing that changing now with a lot of talented Indie developers specifically targeting PC and consoles coming from India they're not on AAA level yet but I think it's only a matter of time every other day we see LinkedIn posts about VC VC's funding some AAA Focus studio with

with an experienced team so I I'm sure something will come soon yeah it seems like there there needs to be some funding but ALS because for example if you guys didn't get 10,000 for super Nano jumpers you wouldn't have been able to start your journey to develop the studio that you have today but then at the same time it seems like this is probably going to be a longer process right where there's some initial investment in terms of I think grants and these kind of prizes before you get a teams that are capable of raising VC funding would you agree with that or what do you think definitely I think it takes time building a company and with every game you learn a lot so it's going to take some time it's like until people reach their third or fifth game they're not going to learn like what it takes to make a successful game at a global scale also I think the market understanding is something that people should really look into which I think is a little bit lacking in India because maybe maybe looking into the games that are doing well or or what kind of genres are there or where where are the gaps or finding

their Niche is something that that some indie Studios should focus on in the very beginning they try to overreach a lot in the very beginning they want to make a million dollars or 10 or a million downloads in the from the first game itself so I think keeping the scope lower at the initial days releasing one or two games and then get getting the experience and then then growing the team making bigger games I think that be that be that can be a good way okay so I just have one last question for you guys which is what is the vision for the company in the future what are your plans kind of whether it's more shorter term or longer term in terms of where you see this company in the future we we definitely want to be one of the biggest Studios coming from India we think we have the we think what we we have what it takes I think we have covered the 0 to 1 distance and now it's about time that we go from 1 to n we have experienced 0 to one from from

with various of our projects even with Metal Haven we have we have been making it for about two years now and now we think we are at a point where we can grow it so what is this current stage of Metal Haven is it so so metal Heaven is currently is in pre-alpha stage we'll be soft launching it sometime around October this year okay yeah that's that's the stage of met at the moment so you're so it sounds like the plan is just SC scale scale Metal Haven and just get that to be a much bigger game as that yeah yeah also we have been bootstrapped for past 9 years right but now we think we we think we might raise we might look for funding we we may look for funding we are open to that as well okay all right guys well thanks so much and maybe we can uh meet some of the folks from your team can we do that definitely all right awesome all right guys we are here to meet the the employees of zigma and so Haan and Galan okay we we've got nine people in this

room and so this is the company right here in this room right which is awesome but can you describe the current break the the makeup of the company you have nine people how does that split out so there's you two yeah co-founders what and do you guys what what kind of stuff do you do on the game in terms from the do you guys just do business or do you guys have specific roles so golden looks like the technical stuff he he leads the whole technical team so you're like the tech lead okay I handle the production and we both codesign okay and I look at production marketing and whatever have to do okay so marketing producer PM designer designer and then you have what else so what are the other seven yeah so we have raakesh over here raak 3D artist 3D artist okay raes is a 3D artist we have shami who is a full stack game developer he he does back end and front end back end and front end okay we

have two other Engineers right yeah one is you can see he's not here but he's working from home at the moment okay uh we have Krishna over there working from home and then we have Hari over here har okay uh har does the gameplay programming okay hurry up and get that code done hry okay and then we have two other artists we have Arwin u a programmer yeah oh programmer okay yeah and we have SU is also a 3D artist and a con and a 2d Artist as well okay so the two Founders you guys do a lot of pro you guys you lead programming also design production so very compact cross functional then four programmers three artists so let's find out so the artist where the artist three artists yeah we have our concept artist is on leave today okay okay and then for for the artist can you tell me what do you do on a daily basis break a 3D artist so I

make 3D art every 3D assets of the game I work on the 2D concept art concept art is made by assis so wait wait you do 2D concept and 3D no no I don't do the 2D concept it is done by assis our concept yeah okay so I do the 3D part of that I see I see I uh I look and look on that concept art based on that concept art I make the 3D right so you get the 2D concept art and then you go here on your fancy tablet and is this one of those can we show this okay so so you we've got this 3D art that you're working on yeah and can you describe the process so you you get this 2D concept and then can you walk us through what you do to make it into a 3D so Asis first decide what to make like so he he finish this design right make some concept art of ships so right now I'm working on a mother ship okay so this will be work on the games 4X section so our game is a 4X game so so there will be mother mother ships so every mother ship have different skins

okay so player have to buy the Skins so I'm working on the mothership skins so first assis will make this concept art so these are made by assist yep so I will look and look on that concept art and B and I will make a 3D art B but I also add some extra details right that that is not possible on the concept art okay so the final is like this [Music] this is a finished mother okay yeah so this was based on this concept arts and all right okay cool so I added extra details on this so that it will look much better on and how did you learn your 3D skills did you go to school for that or no I didn't go to school you learned it byself YouTube yeah YouTube oh nice nice very nice okay and so you're programming right yeah C Unity

yeah C Unity okay and how did how did you learn about zigma and how did you how how did you first join the company I I saw the interview on YouTube okay and they were showing the the game bonfire which is a like uh city building thing so like I I'm really into those games so like you're like I want to work on a game like that okay and luckily when I was looking for a job they had they had an opening so I joined and so did you go to school for for Unity C or how did you learn your skills so I have a computer science degree okay so there I learned C++ butet I had to learn myself okay oh so you're you're doing back end yeah back end and C as well okay so full stack full stack okay gotcha gotcha okay cool all right well who else we got Harry what's what do you do so basically I work on mostly on the gameplay part of the games okay I basically add new

features or any new mechanics you want to add Sol bugs and related to that everything I do daily basis okay are you a good programmer okay there's a lot of things to learn but uh yeah if you keep learning then you okay what's the hardest part about the job that you do as as a programmer developing front end stuff the hardest part will be like to keep in mind that that everything should be optimized because you don't want to iterate stuff so you want to design systems such a way that it's flexible in the future to modify it very easily okay you guys have to build like your own systems sometimes like tools we have like our own editor tools to sort of range our map dynamically so that sort of stuff okay what about things like animation systems or anything like that animation systems not pretty much but yeah like we got a very optimiz animation from the artist and then we

integrated okay render pipeline your own render pipeline or standard okay cool cool cool what's the thing you like least about Unity I think we should we can say about the bug report that's very crashing apart from that okay I got you I got you all right thank you very much AR all right who do we got here you are also a programmer right okay what do you do front end back end front end I basically want on the front end part uh I ALS Implement mechanics and any features that are required by okay who's smarter you are har obviously obviously okay and so describe your typical day so you come into the office as a Unity frontend programmer what do you do from when you start your day till when you leave is it just all programming like what kind of do you have a lot of meetings not many meetings like describe your typical day know basically first thing I ask if I'm currently working on a task so I will

start with that and then I ask imano Goan if there anything else need to be done and in between we have a a little talk sometimes a little fun here and there so it's not all programming it is a pretty balanced pretty balanced well does it sound like you have a lot of meaning so seems like as a small team you're able to just do yeah we coordinate very well without much of at all right and then how are how do you know what to work on like do you guys use some kind of project management tool like jira or day or things like that yeah we use plastic and GitHub for maintaining clickup and click okay okay cool cool cool all right thanks and then finally we have su su okay and you are obviously an artist I see art I'm a generalist generalist 2D and UI and anim wow okay you do you do UI too nice nice okay so can you show us something that you've done that you're proud of that you know somebody out there would watch and then want to join zigma just like I'm sorry I forgot your name sh like

shami I'm not sure if you like so I think this is my best work till now okay let let's see what what is it so we are working on a New Concept so it's going to be something kind of CYS but SFI okay so it's it's basically a beast master so it'll be riding a beast we have a beast already ready over here as well so are you so you say you do everything does that include concept or is that the other guy so I generally do concept as as well but if there if he's absent or something I take over nice wow wow so you just plug in a lot of different areas cool and what about you for can can you describe your day how you how how do you usually spend it usually it's you know around the Artis thing only I don't know what else to tell but if there is something unic is you know designing the whole part you know coming up with stuff and all if the concept art is not ready and all so that's the most Center all right cool all right guys well there you have it this is zigma I love it it's like a small room small Indie powerful Indie

Studio that has launched one two three four and working on their fifth game over nine years so thank you very much for having us and that's it guys Studio Tour is done [Music] [Music] what