Fireside Chat: Kuuhubb & Game District Discuss: How to Build a Successful Gaming Company

from game district and uh cool Hub respectively and we're going to talk about how to build a successful games company and just because we want to uh it seems a bit crazy in in the heat here but because we don't have a fireside chat a nice cozy fire behind us to talk so uh guys I'm gonna let you uh kick off it's all uh we wanted to have a fireside chat we just wanted to do it like you know a very non-conventional way that you know there would be a no like you know guy who's just like you know asking the question it would be me and Yoni uh so I have like you know a lot of questions uh but before the question

but before the question I wanted to like you know introduce myself so my name is sadhmeed I'm the founder and CEO of game District we are one of the like you know largest game companies in Pakistan uh with over 500 people and like you know 200 games in the store with 1.7 billion downloads almost uh one of the things I wanted to mention here like you know when we are talking about the Meena the best thing Mina Kam zip comes up with if we call it meenop so Meena comes and you know joined Pakistan so it will be Middle East North Africa and Pakistan so the people which is already like you know really less and the people in Pakistan is 200 million so when we join that it will one of the biggest region and then like you know this regions like you know the core power would be that you know it is really really near to understanding the Southeastern Eastern region and when the Southeastern regions with the help of Pakistan join the Meena it will be a really really different game so I'm I'm a really big educating

of Pakistan as a market as a as a go-to place as Google said like you know Pakistan is the fastest growing Market in the world after Vietnam so it's really really exciting things from there and I just wanted to hand over to Yoni just introduce himself and then we'll have really really good questions from Yoni and me let's go yeah thank you my good friend Assad so I'm from Finland but I spent most of my life actually in the East so I started in year 2000 in Bangalore I was building games for for Nokia cluster moved on to to China where we launched the largest virtual world or metaverse to date called Hubble we had about 300 million users 100 million in revenues with in-app purchases and virtual avatars in year 2005 so quite a while ago I was also a partner of of the next kind of gaming success from Finland called Angry Birds working with them for China Market

I started a studio in Finland where we we launched an app called recolor that I think we'll talk a bit bit more that became the kind of standard for for coloring communities and I'm also a very active kind of in investor in in startups and and through Fund in traditional gaming technology and and web3 companies awesome awesome um I think I think one of the first question I wanted to ask Yoni which is like you know really near to my heart also is like you know what's going with this Finnish gaming industry like you know every year like you know you guys have a a unicorn like you know I I've been to like Helsinki the kind of people you met there and everything is really really crazy so what's going on like you know how how you're like you know able to do that yeah I think everybody has heard about the Finnish successes you know of of Nokia and uh and and supercell uh in

gaming so I'm gonna talk a little bit about different angle uh which I think uh is equally important to to kind of where the Finnish gaming industry is today I mean it's 4 000 people in Finland generating over three billion in revenues annually and and you're right there is like uh like a big exit every year in hundreds of millions or in billions in in the last you know five six years but I I think the the key thing has been actually uh the combination of successes and failures and and there's been a lot of failures like if you look at Nokia actually it was also a failure like we were on top of the world having in India for example 95 of the mobile market and so on and now Nokia has no consumer phones it's a network company from Harbor Hotel I mean we were the largest social network and online game in the planet and now we have Facebook was worth quite a bit more than the small Harbor Hotel who who failed to basically to you know to see the mobile wave and and so on but

that time we built a global company with 20 offices and 100 million in revenues we were living and breathing in-app purchases and so when the mobile came those people went on to be founders of supercell they went on to work as Management in in Rovio and and you know when when Rovio was at the top of the world Robia was worth billions it was the hottest uh you know you know kids and and entertainment brand in the planet but then Robbie also stumbled kind of and and now it was sold to Sega for a fraction of the of the peak price but then the people from Rovio went on to start companies like seriously that was sold to play Tikka for hundreds of millions um and and so on and so forth so I think this this kind of Silicon Valley type of of of embracing of of the learnings and experience from failures and and moving on to start new companies and so on bringing that experience and then you know succeeding in this I think this is

like really important like non-spoken part of the Finnish gaming industry success failure is always a badge you have to embarrass it and you know once like you know a really really nice score of like you know Nelson Mandela I just wanted to mention here he just said like you know either I learn or I win I never fail so failure is kind of a learning so you just like you know keep it up with that yeah like Winston Churchill said success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusism my next question would be um about the recolor so what is your journey from zero to 100 million dollar at the top of one coloring app because from the Pakistani perspective this is huge like you know you take one game and you know from zero to 100 millions of 100 million dollar Revenue journey is is really different so can you please tell us about that yeah I think this is quite typical for uh for a Finnish gaming to to kind of aim at building one high quality High

Revenue game and and scaling it aggressively to hit those kind of valuations of uh of of 100 plus million and and we did it with recolor basically recolor was taking a uh an offline concept where adult women like coloring books that that kids color all over the world and and making an app on that and that was a decent success but then what really scaled is was building a social kind of community around it so we built like this whole Instagram Pinterest type of of following liking sharing pictures Etc that that kind of created that that engagement and interaction and and then secondly uh sad we did a lot of Partnerships so we went quite aggressively using kind of the connections that that I had for example from from Harbor Hotel and the previous projects to partner with Lion's gate in the Hollywood uh we did corporations with with Hunger Games Twilight um Orange is the New Black with with Netflix um with Barbie

we partnered with Samsung you know for example recolor was downloaded or pre-installed in all the S3 tablets in North America uh we did a partnership with Kellogg's where recolor was printed in 90 million cereal boxes or of course North America to go and download recolor and then color Tony the Tiger Frosty flakes and and so on so I think it was this kind of brand building together with kind of community and then the the marketing as well that that really grew Us in in two years from like zero to 100 million perfect my next question would be that you know you have spent a lot of time in the east coast of the world like you know China India Bangalore eight years in China then Japan and then like you know now you are you're living in in the west side of the world like you know where you see different kind of approach to getting into the technology and gaming so what is the difference you find out in the east and west and what do you think like you know how we can close uh like you know this difference and make something like you know kind of

a marriage of east and west what do you think of this idea well of course kind of you know mixing East and West is my life's work so I believe strongly in those Partnerships and and it's been really interesting to see markets like China uh to grow when I was there in 2003 it was very much like foreigners entering China Koreans and and uh initially and and Chinese just learning how to make games I think like like Jeff was was mentioning earlier um but then it really became about you know how big China is as a whole market and then eventually like tencent for example going out and buying supercell and and epic and Riot and and and and so on so so you know power balances change but I think the the key to to like East-West partnership in my opinion and based on two decades of experience is I think mutual respect like it shouldn't be based on the fact that okay the labor is cheaper in Pakistan or in India or it shouldn't be based on that there's more

money in Silicon Valley or that China has a one plus billion people and and so on it should be based on kind of long-term you know Mutual uh mutually aligned interest on on building something together because there's always you know ways to uh to try to benefit from from each other but I think it should be really about Partnerships on building something together and also looking at East as a as from from the Western perspective as a as a place to build games together but also a place to to have Market access and there are strengths between like Finland and and and Pakistan for example where Finnish are very good at high quality games and that that like user experience and the polishing but the teams are much smaller so they are not as future Rich uh and that they move much slower so I think trying to combine The Best of Both Worlds with mutual respect that would be my advice so one of the like you know question I really wanted to ask about the Swiss

fund so you are the partner of Swiss funds which is like you know one of the like really lucrative funds if around the gaming industry so what's your advice for people who like you know looking for funding uh like you know how can can you can you tell that you know how you can help them in a way that you know they can get to Swiss funds so in Swiss one we have different products so we have for example we have a metaverse fund where we invest in anything you know widely thought as as metaverse so for us it's it's uh you know we have roadblocks we have Unity you know as as a gaming blocks and we have like Gala games and and render Etc so so it's a kind of very you know hand-picked uh actively managed fund where we can invest anything whether it's a big company or whether it's a it's a pre-ico or it's a it's a private company um then we also have a more of an ecosystem uh seed fund where we invest really on on kind of idea and there it's more based on on Founders and and on the

on the idea like in gaming it's very rare to have guys out of University or or with an idea and create a big success I mean it happens but if I look at Finland for example most of the big successes come from people who have already tried something before they've been in these other companies that they learn and then they start and then they succeed so I think from a investor perspective I mean one is your game idea and so on but it's also really important on who are the founders and what's your experience so my advice especially on early stage like if your later stage then there's kpis you know it's easy to look at you know can this thing scale you know in terms of retention LTV metrics you know the UA costs but but for early stage you know try to build a founding team that has some experience have worked in some companies that that we actually know and and and even for young people I would advise to join some

companies that have successful games where you can learn because if you're trying to figure out everything by yourself I mean these days it's it's already a really hard road to learn all the aspects of successful game development and Publishing by yourself as a small team awesome I think I think I have all the questions probably like you know you go on and you know if you wanted to ask anything I'm good to go yeah this kind of brings me to uh to um what I was talking about like you guys uh I know you and your partner Ahmed you started as as kind of young guys uh and you bootstrapped this company game district from from zero to 500 people with no funding and kind of no outside help uh and and so on that's really impressive so can you share some advice you know to other people and and kind of some of the key success factors on how did you succeed um I think I think the answer would be really interesting the first thing is

um the one company I've been working they got funded really well and then you know when they're funded there would be a lot of problems started so one thing uh is there like you know I wanted to do it bootstrap and the second thing is like you know when we've started the company in Pakistan there was no like you know regular investors so it's it's a fortunate thing for me and for my co-founder that you know we didn't go for the free money or the the investors money at that time it would we call it the free money so we just like you know go it like you know full-handedly and you know reinvesting what whatever the profits we will be the two things what we have cherished during the whole time is the persistence like you know the the way we are like you know just going there and you know cherish over failures and like you know start doing better and better things but you know after 2018 uh I think the best thing happened to us is like you know we believe and you understand that you know it's not about making the right kind of a game it's about the right right kind of UA it's kind of the right kind of analytics and

like you know we put all of these talents into the gaming industry in Pakistan and things would be really uh like you know better and like you know one one more highlighted point which like you know 2x overgrowth in over one year is the international team we incubated and you know indulge with uh with with the game District so we have like you know we're growth and you know head manager over CTO um they've like you know help us like you know really really well in like you know accelerated the things so like you know just imagine 5 1 hundred people in game District all of them like you know Pakistani almost like you know all of them like you know never go out from Pakistan so these guys like you know coming from um like you know Russia and they like you know work in the really really big companies they come to Pakistan they accelerate it they talk with the guys they change their mindset and it's really really boosts the company so I think these are the three factors like you know in 2016 no funding 2018 go with analytics and data and like you know start UA aggressively and then like you know 2022 hire more people who can like

you know change their mindset and accelerate it yeah that's really interesting I think one point uh like to ask also here is the the company culture because I I know that you're a big uh kind of uh uh supporter of building a company and the office in uh in in Lahore with game this week is quite amazing it looks like a Silicon Valley startup with inspirational uh quotes of from Steve Jobs and so on on the wall so can you talk a little bit like what role culture played in in your success here think I I believe like you know culture is everything like you know if you don't have the right culture you never like you know able to make things up to the right Mark so when we started game District the first thing we have planned it that you know the culture has to be the top notch like you know everyone comes in a hierarchy but ideas will always like you know cherish in the right way and people will be like you know giving the full regard of like you know respect either your uh janitorial staff or you are the CEO uh the culture is like you know you you like you know you're the same so there is like you

know one one quote I wanted to mention it's a Persian quote by like you know one of the philosopher Who's the who has the idea of Pakistan drama Iqbal and he said like you know that you know you you do something with Excellence that you know once you you you you do and anything with excellent you will be dear to the whole world so that's the culture we cherish and that's what we wanted to do at game District like you know do everything with excellence and with the right strategy and I I can see that like you know things has been like you know changing for for us like in as a Pakistani company all around the world yeah that's exciting can you also mention a little bit uh or talk about the the markets like you know Pakistan is in the middle of of India and the Mana region and and so on how do you see the opportunities now in in gaming you know in both sides of Pakistan you know East and West I think I think I think Pakistan has been really really fortunate and you know it can be uh uh like you know change maker and I think I

think Pakistan could I I I I mentioned Pakistan as the Brazil of like you know mobile games so we play our own way we don't pay the play the football the European way so we have our own way of do UA we have our own way of making games so either you call it stupid or smart I doesn't like you know it doesn't matter but you know we really really have the mark how to get like you know billions of downloads every company you meet in Pakistan and you see like you know okay I have two billion downloads I have one billion downloads and that's over over kind of like you know strength now what we wanted to build on over strength is like you know to help um the Mena region to grow up and you know getting uh the all the knowledge how to make this billions of download for a long tail time now into into the game so that's one thing we are learning and we are like you know trying to get into there and the second thing would be that you know we wanted to help as we know how to uh get uh like you know we understand the users and the data

everything and the Mena region I think if you talk about the biggest uh publisher in the Mina region uh which have like you know 300 million downloads it's the biggest like you know guy in the Mina and then like you know comes a company like game District who has like you know 400 million downloads only from the Mina region because we have like you know really diverse like you know uh downloads and then like you know we have 500 million downloads from the India so these kind of Statistics make us like you know really really powerful pack of like you know East and West marriage or or like you know something doing in Mina so that's that's kind of over thing so now um just a quick conclusion I I think also many regions is really exciting I think the other thing is that's really exciting is that you know the gaming industry that I've seen from 1980s you know Ataris and and Commodores uh you know 1990s with uh with PCS and and consoles you know 2000s uh the online MMOs Etc 2010s the mobile gaming which at the moment still is is like the

the by far the biggest segment and and now I see that the next kind of 10 years the the big growth the new area is coming from web3 gaming and and especially on how to do it in a mass-market way like there are three billion gamers in the world and only about one million unique web 3 gaming wallets and and and so that's actually something as a as a last point I wanted to know you know what are your plans uh with web3 I used to have like you know really really discomfort before like you know I met you and talking about the metaphors and everything because my problem was like you know whenever we are talking about the meta verses and everything we go for like you know far far behind of the like you know idealistic ideas of making games and I think game has to be fun the always like you know either you make a small hyper casual game or you make you you wanted to go for a like you know a meta verse it always be the entertainment has to be the purpose for game District also like you know we are looking forward to going

to the you know web 3 and with with one of the companies we are planning to go into the future would be gd3 which we'll be focusing on the uh web 3 gaming but you know in the in the nicer style for with with the one thing in in in in it like you know the entertainment has to be the sole purpose not like you know selling the coins or crypto out of the game so that is one thing and you know only you're being the part of that uh thing I just wanted you to like you know take that and you know wanted to tell the audience what it is it is so yeah just a lot last point because actually this is the first time that we are talking publicly about the game District 3 which is basically you know bringing this mass-market gaming to to crypto with uh game districts 2 billion downloads and so on the goal is that that we will be the largest web 3 gaming company uh next year in in terms of user base and and having really fun uh uh high quality games that that also have

tokenization uh mechanics and and rewards and nfts and and so on so on top so this is kind of a pre-announcement you guys heard it first uh first here so thanks a lot thank you so much uh is any questions or something we'd love to answer that time I will ask I will answer this a quick question anyone got a quick question they wanna he says trying to stay out there at the speakers so um I mean one thing I would just say is I mean obviously I think I may have said this to you before but when I was working on Playstation homes I was the home architect for PlayStation's virtual world we used to have meetings in Habbo because why not live and breathe the thing that you're doing and I think one of the opportunities that the metaverse kind of mindset brings us is that we're actually kind of realizing the interconnectivity between games is the thing that matters whether you know

visible crypto entities is the way to do it or not is something I think still being debated but the bottom line is the functional principle of inter interoperability between gaming experience is absolutely a amazing space to explore and I can't wait to see what happens