Ayzenberg | The Future of Brand Marketing for Games

hey guys we're here in Eisenberg one of the Premier creative Services agencies uh based here in La we're about to walk into their offices but uh what we'll be talking about today are a few things one what is the role of a creative Services Agency and what do they do the role of brand marketing and how that's changing the impact of data and how data is impacting how brand marketing works today and a bunch of other very interesting things so come with me and we'll find out more foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] thank you so much for inviting us over to Eisenberg I thought we could first start by just talking about the agency so Eisenberg as a creative Services Agency when I look at the website there's like a lot of stuff so maybe you guys could just help me understand uh you know besides video trailers what

else do you guys do I'm gonna first answer the question on the website so Eric Eisenberg um really is Mantra right now in cultures around creating awesomeness so in his mind I think just getting right to the work yeah being all about the work is what's there so the site for those who go there from your comment Joe yeah it's designed to just celebrate the work so it isn't fundamentally crafted in a way that might be classically stacked with about and services and case studies it's really just a way of celebrating the work and really the people behind it um as far as myself I'm president here at Eisenberg group and really oversee operations clients and strategy departments along with my partner Stu Chief Communications officer and we're really trying to kind of Forge the voice and the brand of a bison burgundy Network and promoting it both internally and externally right so could you talk about like more specifically some of the services um you know uh seems like there's there's a lot there's you know that the trailers business and

then there's stuff with soul mates it seems like there's a technology piece could you could you break that down for us yeah yeah the uh great question at the same time the challenge that we're all having I think of the marketplace yeah what we're dealing with of how we communicate is changing daily so as an agency every two to three years we reinvent ourselves we have to sit together uh as a family as a as a as a tribe and think about what's going on in the culture that's impacting how people consume Communications so if uh 20 years ago that was a classic broadcast and if uh 20 years ago was digital and five years ago social and today it's AR VR or mobile or the the idea of building an agency is building a consultancy right so probably more now than ever before we're a consultancy though structured in a very unique way so we're able to actually look at data and look at insights and then actually take action and power them by the virtue of how we've been built over the last 25 years

I was talking to Stu the other day I feel like the agencies has been around two or three years quite frankly and how we've evolved and how we change and and how we think about the Staffing to address the clients and the problems they're facing with and then being able to actually act on it so if I told you maybe eight years ago we made 90 television commercials and a classic definition uh and this year we'll make three you perception might be that the agency is in a direction not in a positive manner and the reality is I think last year the the shop alone did close to 20 000 pieces of content so it's just a complete reinvention of about what it means to actually create that one-room relationship with the consumer that hits them with something that's meaningful and whether it's where it's authentic or engaging it's really something that has to do with what's present in the conversation and what's present in the way the brand wants to be perceived with the consumer they want a relationship with so it's a big deal it's the hard work well we've been yeah it's a very true we've been around for 25 years now 25 years one of the things that has

always made Eisenberg unique in my opinion uh really comes from the top of America Eisenberg and that is being having a vision of where the future is going being a visionary but it's only in the last couple of years as Chris said as we're Reinventing ourselves that we've had the capability the technological capability to do more than just see the future we're trying to define the future we're trying to help create the future right and so we have a division within a network and Eisenberg is now part of what we call a network a DOT Network we have a division called soul mates AI who focuses on technology we're getting to the point where we can you know with social media and with the technology technological tools and processes that we're developing we can finally do the things that we've always wanted to do and it's which is the element of Frontline marketing which we uh which we really promote here and Frontline marketing is about listening to people and finding out what their desires are before we make the creative that's going to move the needle for Brands now listening isn't solely limited to hearing okay it's a term we use social

listening but it but it's also about examining images examining words hearing what people have to say on social media and then responding to that with creative sharing that creative and then letting the cycle listen create and share rotate again and hearing what people have to say about the creative that we shared with them and then fine-tuning it so by doing these sort of processes it's taken us years of waiting for the technology to show up and then also creating technology to realize the vision that we've had for so long and that's why it's such an exciting time right now would you say that that's a key difference like when I talk to other creative Services agencies like the one of the key things I took away was that you guys talked a lot about data and about technology and about you know how the future is changing for for brand marketing um would you say that that's a key difference uh or you know how how would you view yourself it's competitive or different I think you're close the only take I take on that is because so many of Executives CMOS marketers whether

it's gaming or non-gaming or looking for accountability so they're looking for an ability to understand that the time a consumer spends or their brand and the risk they they develop in the creative that connects with them is it going to deliver the results they're looking for so it goes beyond just brand awareness although categorical component but we look at awareness look at consideration you look at conversion uh as a partner I don't can't speak for other agencies but if we can't sit at the table and articulate through that entire funnel so to speak and I know Joe you've done some other sessions around these these topics understanding that relationship at all those points and being able to actually provide a solution or a service um I'm not being a good good partner if we can't do that and so yes investing in tools and data are critical but really investing in people that believe in them so we're a company that is measured by talent I think more than anything else and having that Talent excited and ready and amped every day to jump into it we have to fuel them with a lot and data

right now today is that fuel that's helping them convert to a story that actually has a measurement component that gives us enough insights to do it again and again and again and Steve one of the really interesting quotes from you that I read was the importance of people evolving or developing their own personal brand can you talk about what you mean by that and like maybe some specific examples of how you would would actually do that absolutely um Joe you are becoming a brand actually and you already are afraid at this point uh you've created a YouTube channel you've done amazing things with blogs and so forth that's what people are doing now yeah social media especially has really allowed people to establish their own Brands now sometimes those brands are a little bit different than their own personal uh you know personalities sometimes your online Persona is a little bit different than your real life person uh just like a real brand may present itself or what we the traditional brand may present itself a little bit differently but what's happening is people are starting to think of themselves as Brands you know whether it's their Instagram account or their Facebook account or their YouTube channel right

they're thinking of themselves uh in the way brands have traditionally thought of themselves now this presents to us a unique opportunity we can start matching brands with Brands making alliances between Brands as opposed to selling something from one brand to a consumer right and that the dynamic of that relationship changes the attitudes of both parties the brand the old marketing Brands don't think of themselves anymore necessarily as just trying to sell their product they're looking to they're really looking to form long-term alliances with people who are now other brands that make sense and some people don't make sense of it just like some Brands don't make sense for other people so this by by really defining things differently and looking at things differently we can start creating the tools and the processes that make this magic happen yeah one of the other sorts of changes that I I'm starting to feel deal is is beginning to develop in the industry from a brand marketing perspective is the you know is a quantification of for example Roi

against brand marketing activities could you guys talk about you know you guys were leveraging technology in a big way you guys are using data are you applying that to really try and quantify the you know the impact or the ROI of brand marketing yeah so Steve's been part of the two so there there's a couple ways to answer one is intermedia value index so about about three years we started uh because of that exact request what's the value I'm getting out of the investment of the content we're making not everything can be reduced to just a sale right so there are many value index and it's actually available on at our site that's highly organized to your point Joe earlier that uh it allows you to actually put a monetization value as if it was real world media dollars so the index tracks many of the social platforms many of the different kpis that markers are looking for today and provided evaluation that determines the performance of those data points so Roi on a brand standpoint and

on a consideration standpoint or an awareness standpoint we're also working deeply a lot with regression analysis so influencer marketing is you know a call that I think we're getting a lot of people out of exactly yes very much what you guys were just talking about in terms of Brands and the relationship of what a brand value is so these influencers or content creators have a value in the marketplace however what is the conversion on that then say a post on Facebook or a ad placed within Amazon's app store or ecosystem so looking at regression analysis of when an influencer's content hits when an actual ad hits an out of home or TV when an actual ad is placed or your click action is that's going through purchase what was indirect and direct attribution modeling so like many clients we work with we have to have an army of data scientists an entire stack of of technologists license tools and the actual humans to actually sit there and kind of ride this

thing like a bowl and just try to get it figured out and get it harnessed and every day the algorithms that are used to help calculate informalitis it's it's real and so the only element that ultimately is hindering any Partners you're working with and for us as well is just access right what data do we have access to um and I don't really say big data I know that was a big topic a couple years ago so it's big data that I think in the last couple years talk about big insights people's getting more of around and then all right I have it inside and today I think the dialogue is on right could we take some action now right can we can we move on some of these can we test some of these and then figure out how do we virtuously continue to move through it is really important on the data side well Chris brought up something that we're very excited about and that is the emvi the earned media value index which is one of the ways of you know figuring out the ROI of your investment on you know online campaigns and one great thing about this is as we're trying to quantify it and we're trying

to standardize it it gets bigger and bigger and we get different verticals and all of a sudden we have a product we have a technological tool that can be used by many people so as you're aware a traditional advertising agency the entire value of the agency walks out the doors at the end of the day right the building may be worth something but that's not what the agency is about we are creating value for this company by creating tools that can be licensed and franchised across great numbers of people helping them understand these sort of uh you know Roi elements but at the same time really you know creating a combination advertising technological company uh whose value is much more than that of a typical advertising agency I think we've got uh I think over a thousand I think over a thousand companies now downloading utilizing or accessing embi so it's actually uh it's great learning tool as well to see how brands are actually measuring and utilizing it so it's been fun

[Music] hey guys uh video seems to be playing an increasingly significant role in terms of reaching new audiences and wanted to get your perspective in terms of you know how that's being done in today's media well I think it all starts with video being such a a great format for telling a story and really when we get back to the beginning of human history it's always been through telling stories that we share ideas and we get most excited about those new ideas and now we're really able to bring video into the realm of social media and everywhere else to create stories that um connect with people and really share a brand story with another person yeah and Scott I know you know I I know Eisenberg primarily through the video trailers business and you know at NBC Universal we've done a lot of work with you excellent work um you know I saw the division two trailer which was amazing but I wanted to just ask you in terms of that specific business can you walk me

through what's typically involved when you come up with a new video trailer like the process and kind of the the people involved absolutely you know it's it's not all that different from the process of making a more traditional film to be honest so you start off with uh your writer uh so you have a team of creatives a creative director a writer and you start developing the concepts and you know as much as Stu was talking about really you're focusing on classic themes even though it's in a it's always in the setting of uh the world of the game but typically you're going on sort of this hero's journey you know they're up against they're out to save the world right you know or whatever it might be and so um I think great stories no matter what medium they're in they have the same elements to them really right but what's different with a with a video game you you start out you write a script you describe uh the vo or the dialogue that's going to be in that right so you write all that out you describe the sort

of scene so you get the pacing with your First Act to set things up and your second act really propelling the story for it and then of course the climax and the resolution in your third act the main difference is really that uh instead of going out into the world or into the back lot at Universal to shoot we are living inside the world of the video game in that in that build right and that becomes sort of our Sound Stage and we take that camera and we go in there and we shoot our own scenes we kind of make a movie within the the world of the game so instead of having a director and a DP we have a gameplay capture director who sort of operates in that in that role right and then at that point you start working very closely back and forth with the editor the gameplay capture director and the creative director you're constantly shooting a scene the editor is putting it together that worked that didn't work we need to shoot a reverse of that this needs to be wider we need an extra ending to this and you're constantly changing uh you know the shots until you

get everything to work out correctly it's really a collaborative process just like filmmaking is one of the things that we've noticed from a marketing perspective when we're doing like user acquisition is when we actually use a very high quality you know trailer for a game that you know it performs significantly better in terms of being for for us being to be able to acquire customers to to a game for example so if if you were to try and just doing distinguish or characterize what makes a really strong trailer from a trailer that's not going to work as well so would you say it is that storytelling aspect of it or is that like what are the other elements that make a really strong trailer as effective I think in gaming the the quality is always there Gamers Gamers want the latest you know um technological bells and whistles that you know like when we went from SD to HD or when you're going to HDR there's always some next sort of uh objective out there in the world of technological

Fidelity of the image right so Gamers always care a little bit about that so yeah sometimes the higher quality stuff attracts Gamers but I think at the end of the day it's that emotional connection that it that the story that gets your heart pounding right and that it builds that you feel that excitement you feel it in your bones you know and when and that's when I know I've made a great trailer when you at the end of it you're just like and that's when you know tell a story and invokes some kind of emotion from the audience absolutely absolutely right it also it invites you into that world it immerses you in that world and for that a few seconds when you're there yeah you're really there and you're living it like our tagline for our agency is creating and sharing brand stories right and we really believe that we're not the only ones doing it of course but that as an industry we have sort of you know raised expectations on the part of Gamers not part of viewers right to be entertained through the the marketing and at this point we always have to con you know just see as discussing what's the next level where can we take this to the next level to where we have that immersion that storytelling uh and and

at the end of the day it's in entertainment in itself just like the game itself will be another team great thanks a lot guys thank you [Music] it's one of the most interesting parts of talking to people is finding out sort of the origin story right in terms of how did a company get started you know what was the initial sort of scene and and the circumstances could you so like set the stage for me like how did this company get together who were the initial Founders and and then when did you guys join Eisenberg right well good luck uh 25 and a half years ago we celebrated our quarter Century last year uh 25 years ago Eric Eisenberg was already just a few feet from here standing now all right in the next building over and he had two partners at the time in an agency called Peridot okay and when they dissolved that agency one of the partners took the name Paragon went to the West Side another one of the

partners went back to Salt Lake City and Eric stayed here in the building uh but changed his name to eisenberger okay and at that point Eisenberg group was Eric Eisenberg and no one else so uh he had visions of having a group but at that point it was just him he quickly assembled a small group of people around him about four people and they started uh just as a scrappy small agency really focused on as a design shop okay so that was 1993. around the year 2000 uh he started bringing in people that could really create a real Ad Agency you know really take it from a design shop to an ad agency I came here from the big agency from Gray and Lois uh Gary Goodman one of our partners came here from Dreamworks so I brought adages experience and then then copywriting and creative Direction skilled Gary brought all kinds of filmmaking and story telling nice and soon we had you know Chris Chris arrived and Vincent arrived bringing in media bringing in strategy and business development and all the all the components that we needed from an

agency right so it was really around the year uh 2000 around you know seven years after Eric started it the things really started to grow in a partnership start to reform got it but when Chris and I came here we still only had less than 20 people so we still had a long way to go we're now at over 250 people in the network just here in our Pasadena headquarters uh so that the growth has been uh organic but at the same time it's been dramatic and can you talk to me about like you know over this 25 year span there must have been some some tough moments um so to the extent that you can can you talk about some of those tough moments and then also talk about what do you think were the keys to success in terms of being where you guys are now as you know one of the Premier agencies so it was a great question so the agency uh that's due described in a kind of a core group we constantly take it time in a moment to pause and realize what's going on in the marketplace right so probably for the impact coming out of the the bubble of the IPOs and the dot coms in 2000s when I joined the agency

and trying to establish something that I think a group had a vision around around how to deal with marketing present day at that time um and we've been growing 10 year over year ever since actually 40 Joe in the last two years wow so when you look at 2008 you would say man that would have been a seismic moment where the agency shift would have happened it happened a lot of agencies and why were you continually to grow or those are continue to to decline or even potentially shut down so it came to actually our ability to just take a real humble approach of looking every day and every quarter and every year at the businesses and they're going to Marketplace we need and what we need to do to change to evolve on it I tell you right now and Stu's the same I'm not doing the same thing I did when I joined here and I didn't do the same thing I'm doing two years ago and it has nothing more than probably something that is the greatest difficulty to do in management which is to let go right so we're spending a lot of time now listening in a way that might sound kind of fluffy and Airy but genuinely it's about empowering those that think they can do

more but they're just not allowed to because of structure or org chart or things that come into the marketplace that for a small small company like ours we have a little time to pay attention because you're just trying to get through the next day so um our success and our journey although has continued to grow we're always trying to improve and always trying to move there it's not easy but it comes in with a very kind of workmanship mentality getting it in will you get your hours in and getting your work done I haven't figured out how to do it anyway smarter well part of the reason I think we were able to weather some of the big changes in the economy for instance 2008 right uh I mean gaming helped the fact that people uh when times got tough they wanted to buy a game and go home and not go on a vacation like playing 50 hours of gameplay so that helped but what the in the bigger picture what was really helping us is that uh the spirit of this company is entrepreneurial it's an entrepreneurial Spirit right and really Eric Eisenberg is more than anything else an entrepreneur so when the when the dot

bomb thing happens Eric had been an incubator he had actually been you know creating websites creating creating companies uh he saw the writing on the wall and he got out at the right time as an entrepreneur he knew where to shift he knew where the winds were blowing uh same as we were just talking about recently about you know creating a network in which we can sort of Define the future through technology and through marketing right so it's this entrepreneurial Outlook I think that really helps us weather the tough storms [Music] we're here with Chris and Ashley could you first just introduce yourselves and talk about your role here at Eisenberg yeah yeah I'm Ashley Owen I'm the strategy director here at Eisenberg and um specifically under the marketing science umbrella so if you split those two up into two separate pieces I'm the marketing side of the marketing side it's umbrella and I'm the Chris drosser VP of marketing science um you know basically what I do is I handle a lot of the go to market

strategy for our marketing science so a lot of the public face of how we tell that story and how we explain it to people either in pitches or you know new business development and you know we really view it as this Confluence kind of you know of several different disciplines but especially that strategist and brand planner along with the analyst and somebody who's bringing a lot of that hardcore kind of data analysis to the equation with that human element of the of the of the planner and strategist and we try to make them you know invaluable to each other so that they understand they actually need each other a lot more than they don't and then today's marketing is going to be really hard to get what we need to get done for our clients done without that kind of dynamic so just so I understand a little bit better so when we talk about marketing science we're basically talking about how do you marry data and data science with traditional brand marketing is that fair to say I wouldn't say that so the line I like to use is

that it's the application of Science and Technology to The Art of Storytelling okay there's a lot there yeah in that statement okay but if you unpack it a little bit you know science especially the you know social science the sciences that would be applicable to Marketing in general have always been with us right data science has now evolved to a place where it's producing a lot of value for for marketers right and on the other side of that The Art of Storytelling that's a real thing that's a real human kind of the crafting of that connection right so that requires the that kind of human cognition and that element uh to find that net new truth that you really need to have to make compelling stories on the market so uh for us you know it isn't a new term but it's new enough for us to be able to apply it the way we need to and kind of in a way that's unique to you know Eisenberg can you talk about maybe um Ashley so under marking science could you talk about some of the products or like a specific application of marketing science to uh to a specific you know

campaign of some kind yeah yeah so um I think kind of piggybacking off of what Chris was just mentioning um if you if you look at traditional brand marketing and maybe brand strategy the tools that a strategist might use to better understand the audience for things like surveys and focus groups and getting out on the street and meeting people and doing interviews we still have all of those tools but with the way that data and technology has progressed we now have an entire Suite of opportunities to be able to kind of learn about our audience in the way that they're kind of interacting in the world so I think some of those tools here are things like soul mates and kind of our proprietary technology um as well like we've got kind of a variety of pieces so bringing in Social data as well as kind of those traditional pieces so on a day-to-day basis we're doing that for clients here like Microsoft and Oculus City of Hope we're kind of doing it on the ground all the time so could you talk so what does soul mates do exactly so soulmates is a

part of our you know kind of proprietary Tech platform that is the enablement piece to a lot of the marketing science that we do okay but it's mainly based on artificial intelligence and machine learning of social data so uh what we like to call social speech um or consumer consumer declare data however you want to put it that is the most transparent the consumer is going to be and so we haven't really had a technical capability until very recently to analyze the masses of data that come from especially social networks in a way that was actually beneficial and now that machine learning has gotten to the place that it has and that you you can really build a platform in the cloud with AWS or wherever you need to and those costs are reduced this all now becomes very um possible and uh and we can actually make sense of what used to be the mess of that social landscape so that Brands start to understand what is the share of

mind what is the share of voice what is it what are people actually saying about you are you inserting yourself into that narrative whatsoever um what is you know that General kind of sentiment do people feel like you're delivering on your brand promise or is or is there a disconnect between how you think you're performing and how the you know you're you're being perceived and uh so soulmates was a big investment that Eisenberg made that actually really is one of a very unique um it's one of the most unique attributes to the agency because I've spent you know the last 15 years at some of the biggest agencies in the world doing solution architecture and building Tech platforms very few of those agencies were willing to make the investment that Eisenberg did right very few of those agencies were willing to go and say no we're going to put we're going to lean into this and we're going to lean into it really hard and we're going to go social first or you know social forward we think there's a treasure Trove of data there in that social landscape

that's there for marketers to actually execute much more effectively on so that's part of our platform that's more of the build part there are other parts of it that are more bi and when you get those pieces all put together you have a really compelling competitive Advantage for us because not only we're focused on the consumer the declared data but we've made the Investments that you need to to actually create action uh based on that data that you're getting so one of the traditional or historical knocks on brand marketing has been just how hard it is to quantify Roi or quantify the impact of that marketing so with marketing science with soul mates and the data that you guys are are ingesting and analyzing is it possible now to you know quantify better whether it's social influencer marketing or other types of brand marketing uh so it is much more effective than it used to be okay I would say you know given my experience what we used to do

was we you know on one end of a platform turn on a fire hose what they used to call Big Data yeah which really meant nothing and everything all at once um build a platform in the middle and on the other side you got basically what was a leaky faucet so you had all this stuff coming in but the output of the system was this drip drip and it wasn't very effective and we've gotten to a point now where that platform that's sitting in the middle there is much more evolved and that allows us to produce the kind of metrics on the points you're mentioning that can help a lot of the stakeholders on the other side of the table um you know vouch for a lot of the Investments they're making in their marketing efforts and tactics most of them are looking for that kind of what is the ROI what can we expect what's going to happen in six weeks eight weeks what's the percentage of lift and sales we can expect those are all things we can do now with 99 point something you know levels of certainty that wasn't even two or three years ago

uh widely available to us just in general but I think that over the last two to three years there's been such an advancement in the technology and the analytics tools that are available and such a reduction in the cost in order to make that happen that now you've got platforms that can be built to add and scale that are highly effective and I think it's even just about having people in the building who specialize in data science for example not a not a ton of advertising traditional advertising agencies will prioritize that kind of skill set because you know as much as the technology is part of it it's about having kind of that human intelligence who can distill it make sense of it work with different data sources and kind of make sense of all of it so it can be applied to something like Roi let's talk a little bit more about that in terms of the people so when you when we're talking about the types of people that are employed here at Eisenberg and you know as a premier creative Services Agency and is you know and I I love the

building you guys are working in but if somebody wanted to crack into the industry in a company like Eisenberg like what are the kinds of people you guys are looking for what kinds of skills do they need I can give you my three characteristics that I look for they're not so much skills but it's three C's and everyone has to have them okay one is curiosity I want you to come in asking questions learning listening figuring out what you can impact and do differently this is kind of a scrappy roll of your seat sleeve sort of place so you've got to come in Curious okay the second C is creative we're surrounded by Art we make things you have to be kind of compelled to make things to come here and then the last one is collaborative I have never been at an agency more collaborative than this place I'm coming again from somewhat of a traditional background where a brief was crafted and then handed off to creatives to to create this is not how how we work we really kind of hands on all the way throughout the process so those are kind of my high level characteristics across the board I

think skills can be can be taught and built but those those are are important right yeah I would totally agree I I think um you know one term I like to use is kind of a both brain thinker and obviously we're going to land on certain spots and you're going to have skill sets that lend themselves uh you know more to one side or the other but there is that idea that you have to be able to go into it thinking not just totally subjectively and not just totally objectively there's got to be a mix there and you got to be able to bounce back and forth or at least be in rooms where that's happening in order for us to effectively do what we say we can do someone who's trying to build like you know a knowledge base and experience to come work at a company like Eisenberg like what what advice would you give them before applying to to this agency I would say one of the things to to you know definitely focus on is try to be a little out in front of where you see the

trends um I think that's a a really interesting part of Eisenberg and something that definitely distinguishes it from the other you know agencies that I'm more familiar with is that there's this constant kind of soul-searching about what is Eisenberg what do we really want to lean into um and if we find something we're really going to believe in it even if it's not like you know the biggest money grab out in the marketplace or something like that we're not necessarily chasing that I think you have to be able to come in here and adopt that kind of DNA in order to be successful looking a little bit past the Horizon because that's what a lot of the work is about I would say start start making things okay whatever you know how to make whether it's spreadsheets or content or you know photos or if you write like start making things because I think a place like this wants you to come in and show what you can do and then let us

sort of build upon the things that you want to be better at right so expose your work and build your personal brand as Stu would say I yeah exactly what I would say right all right thank you very much [Music] hey Steve I gotta say this is one of the most beautiful buildings that I've ever visited and such a great work environment could you talk about you know the the way the the architecture and the building you know integrates with with the working environment here absolutely that's uh you picked up on something that's very important to uh to our company and that is creating an environment that Fosters creativity right so it's not just the architecture we have an amazing architecture um you know built by Rick Corsini of course Indian Stark Architects but it's also the way that we have filled that architecture and it's you know the furniture you know going with you know very modern furniture it's the art on the walls yeah uh some of this art is from you know very well-known local artists and we've actually created a

gallery called space gallery uh that we have exhibits every three months or so on the weekends on Saturdays and Sundays the public is invited to come in and actually experience the art buy it maybe right but it's all a non-profit venture to help some local you know Charities but also to help the local artists but but the real the real bottom line is that we feel that by creating an environment that Fosters creativity it really helps all people in the agency not just the so-called creatives that are making you know the art direction or the copywriting but everybody in the agency uh is inspired to be more creative in whatever discipline that they're doing right great thank you very much dude [Music]