Panel: Should influencers be at Arm’s Length or Considered Part of Your Team?

our first session this morning is a panel should influencers be at arm's length or considered parts of your team and do we have our panelists with us this morning fantastic good morning phil lovely to see you loving the show thank you thank you so much i'm actually in los angeles it's in 1am here so this is my late night i was going to see you're looking very sharp for 1am hey thank you so much or a very early morning you know i usually uh 2 2 a.m is my bedtime generally so this is perfect for me dear god i i'm i'm a i'm a morning person i'm annoyingly perky um after half past nine forget it there we go we'll never get along ah wait because about lunchtime

fantastic we have very nearly the full panel so let me introduce everyone we have alex from viral talent phil uh who we've been chatting to from home let me try that again wormhole labs a carolina from gameset and karina from hype factory good morning folks how are we all today great good fantastic stuff wonderful thank you all for joining us um so alex you are moderating this this morning's session i believe i am indeed yes so i'm going to step back into the shadows and let you pick up is that all good yeah of course yeah yeah ready to rock and roll ready excellent i will join you at the end of the panel good luck folks good um so today key topic should influences be kept at arm's length or considered part of your team um well we all know that influence and marketing is now a staple part of every brand's pr and marketing

campaigns um i'm the firm believer that there's always the right influencer for the right platform but it's really understanding what the right platform is for the brand um and who is the influencer that's really going to drive what they're looking to achieve um but so i guess it's the age-old question of how do brands really work with influencers and what is the best way i think everyone's got you know their own opinions and how they feel this should work um but let's let's kick it all off um i think as we've probably got a mixed bag of knowledge in regards to people watching this panel i think let's kick it off with um you know should should brands really be using influencers and you know what is the benefit to them um should we go ladies first carolina would you like to kick things off thank you thank you yes uh thank you for for inviting me thank you for uh for this question for starting this conversation uh well i

think we all here can agree that influencers um are now a vital part of every marketing strategy um this is because they are very authentic um they help brands deliver their message and their business goals precisely um to the target group they are targeting um and they are very also very cost effective um still the rates are going up but um still there they are very cost effective and influencer marketing is not new in marketing uh before in marketing we also had we need some social proof uh we need some key opinion leaders um to help us boost our products uh awareness and and influencer marketing is just bringing this to the next level uh with with the celebrities we now have which are influencers so so yes this is just an evolution um

and and a right one when planning every marketing strategy okay fantastic grinya what what you know what your thoughts first of all thank you for the invitation i'm really happy to be here and with you all uh i completely agree with the previous speaker and just the couple of things i would like to add to this is just uh i think we all agreed that the influencers uh is mostly a tool and the tool that can be a very good uh help for any large-scale advertising campaign and all of the rest of the work is carried out until the moment like the brand or the agency turns directly to the influences and a lot of things stay behind the scenes like weeks of strategy development selection of

suitable influences categories development of uh some creative mechanics uh time plan creation etc so all this uh goes down to influencer as a brief so where they can clearly [Music] indicate what they will need to do what they need to share with the audience and the main benefit from the influences is of course the ability to natively show and share necessary information to their audience so at the moment more and more people tend to trust influencers uh they experience their stories like their passion to things they're doing to things that they share to the audience so and exactly this is something that brand brands want to get for themselves and be a part of this process

i think it's really good what you highlighted there it's all the behind the scenes there's a lot of work that goes into it it's not just a conversation you know a quick scan there's a lot behind the schedule and understanding how they really want to promote it and the motivations so there's a lot of effort that's going in from it from selection right to the brief um phil great to understand you know your your your thoughts around this yeah it's i i might surprise you because i've been working in the crater economy for 15 years but though i don't know if the word essential is right right like there's lots of marketing campaigns that would greatly benefit from influencers and i think that you influencers are still wildly underutilized but also you have to figure out who your target market is and how to best address them and how to best tell your story and it's not always influencers right i mean influencers also have a lot of difficult parts with them right like sometimes they want a more trusted publisher they want a more traditional

outlet or out of home advertising might be right you know there's no one-size-fits-all for any brand and any objective now am i somebody who's almost always going to push influencers on people oh yeah right because there's there's communities and niches for almost anything but i'm starting to get really fascinated by the idea of kind of self-sustaining communities and you know uh like the group nines of the world like the dodo right it's not really an influencer but it's probably the most influential pets channel on all of facebook so would that be considered influencer marketing or is that just kind of like traditional marketing on digital platforms you know so i i i here to say yes influencers should definitely be considered for every campaign but it does not have to be essential for every campaign when you say um that they're not being fully utilized well could you give us a little bit more about that is there any sort of examples or you know where you've seen brands not really i guess maximize the potential of

their partnership yeah oh man i could write a novel on this one but i feel like any minute there we go i'll take my three minutes [Laughter] yeah i mean a lot of brands are still treating influencers as a check box right and i think it's because a lot of people they get used to the marketing strategies that they know and paid media is easy right and it's a sure thing you shoot a 30-second spot you see it in places you demo target on instagram and facebook and you can scale it to the moon right influencers take a little bit more work um so that's why you see so much of this culture is like lazy product placement or 30 second shout outs where people are reading copy and that that i consider to be a pretty massive under utilization because oftentimes they're spending the same amount of money they might get for say a fully bespoke product or something that feeds into the current narrative of the channel something that could be really

really authentic and tell the story in a really smart way to the audience is being replaced for something where they say hey do you like books make sure to buy books at this book retailer right and that's just not convincing anybody of anything so and also just in terms of building loyalty in the same way you would when you're buying television advertising frequency is very very important so doing one-off drops on a bunch of influencer channels it's not always the best strategy but it's the most often utilized strategy with brands so i encourage everybody to find influencers you like to work with who are moving the needle for you and do a year-long flight with them so their audience really gets to know your product they associate the product with the influencer and then you know you're gonna get loyal customers instead of just like a oh wait what were they shouting out again it was in the beginning of the video i forgot moving on with my life there i think i got it in three minutes perfect you did very good i'd say two so well done perfect um i i think that's a good point as well and i'd love to understand everyone's thoughts on this because i think it's

been something that brands have always asked the question should we be going for ambassadors or should we be going for you know let's maximize everyone out there let's lose 15 at a time and all push the message at one point um yeah karina what's your what your thoughts around that what would you say to it to a brand um it all depends on the marketing um strategy because um you can um it depends on the brand's goals you can use many influencers just as for example paid media just to ask them to show the product or you could have influencers as ambassadors or for example you could produce a product developed with the influencer with the influencers brand it all depends on on what campaign are we planning what are our business goals what is our strategic positioning goal um in this

matter because um we could have um a single-minded strategy that we want to for example position in a specific community on a long-term basis so so in that case we would probably need influencers from that community to be um involved with our brand on the long term to uh to keep our competition out of this uh out of this area to to claim it uh to our brand so so it it always varies uh um on the strategy um probably the most used solution is is having a limited amount of ambassadors um or ambassadors that for example change each each three months or each half year and then a long tail of smaller influencers who just help you get the message across to other communities but you have the main uh the main ambassadors who are

in for long term involved with the brand this is this is probably the most of a new solution but but this this should all depend uh on on a brand on the product on on on our marketing goals so so it's it's hard to answer that question in um [Music] as a specific menu what to choose uh from from the very wide array of options we could work with influencers but um but yes if i if i could say just just one it's usually mixing ambassadors with with the long tail uh influencers that that switch over time so we uh we don't uh address the same message to the same community over and over again okay fantastic anything to add on onto that uh first of all um as usually agree that like influencers uh

should be a part of some big strategy that includes other uh way to promote your product your brand etc etc it shouldn't stay alone especially uh in case when you are a huge brand uh that uh and you think that it's easier to spread the information around using the television about soil so plus uh regarding the ambassadors etc i'm agree also that it's a really sometimes really hard job to work with the influencers to communicate with them try to make uh everything happen according to your ideas and the brief that you created before uh because when you're working with people there a lot of different things could happen

like everyone they could be a good person a bad person etc uh and regarding the ambassadors uh they could be some difficulties especially you should be really carefully uh really careful when you try to choose the right influencer to your campaign because of their such thing as the cancel culture so this ambassador one day could tweet uh some uh very short what uh show it to the world and everything will be over so one day he's the superstar and the best person in the world and everyone trusts him and then another day he's the person of non-grant so yeah no that's that's that's a really important thing and i think as well it's and i guess following on from that would you

recommend uh if if a brand had a choice of two that they'd really like to work with would you recommend the bigger one who has a lot of reach and engagement that potentially has that sort of risk associated with him that you mentioned about the tweet or do you recommend the one that probably isn't as engaging isn't as big but really good to work with um you know is professional when and there isn't that element of risk where would i've gone off topic a little bit here to an extent karina but where would you where would you go what would you say to the brand you know if you were trying to direct where you know where they should be choosing the right influencer uh it really depends on are we ready for some uh certain of hype that we could get if something will happen with the ambassador with this big superstar etc if we are ready for that is the brand uh

the idea of the brand uh will not uh get in trouble with this so why not if this is the goal if the goal is to reach uh uh the biggest level of the audience so we should definitely trend of course it's all up to the agreements contracts etc there are many ways to control uh influence and also it also depends on your professional skills so okay fantastic and i guess it brings us to the point of you know what we're discussing today um you know how um how would you recommend brands work with influencers directly you know what's what's the best way to do is how immersed should they be in the whole planning and the campaign aspect of that um i guess phil you know what what how what would you recommend is the best the best

practice how should they be fully immersed in or should they be immersed in in the whole process yeah i mean luckily we're about let's say 10 years into uh you know youtubers being a thing let's say that that started around 2012 2013 right where brands actually started saying okay this is legit um because of that we've seen the funnel that a lot of brands have to go through and i think that it's a logical one where first they do a lot of direct reach out to little ones they test the market they see if it moves the needle for them the ones where they saw move the needle then they'll bring on a huge digital marketing agency or a huge marketing agency that can help them scale that product and then as it becomes more and more core to their mission they bring all of that in-house and they leave the agency aside sometimes or they keep working with a major agency right so i recommend people go through that funnel because if they want to test their roi you can test your roi really really efficiently right you've probably known what your paid media looks like you know

what you know your out of home advertising looks like like you already got that nailed so why not just say all right let's take an r d budget let's take twenty thousand dollars let's take thirty thousand dollars find a really specific mid-tier influencer or two or three or five and let's see how much time they take and let's see how directed they are and how much audience they move and let's really look at our return on ad spend and consider it right i think most brands when they start to do it that way they actually really get into influencer marketing the ones that fall out of it very quickly are the ones that go out and buy pewdiepie once and then say okay we just spent 200 000 on one video how did it do right and then they judge all influencer marketing based on that one campaign not realizing that maybe it got dinged in the algorithm because he said a swear word at one point or maybe his uh thumbnail wasn't as good on that video so yeah i think that it's one of those things that has to be treated with pragmatism and experimentation and

there's no really wrong wrong way to do it as long as you're diversifying your spend okay great so it's more of a case of start off initially small you know take that budget that experimental budget that you have select a few and scale up from there and test and then in that process would you be dealing with the agents or would you be keen to deal with an influencer planning agency or you know would you say you know see if you get that conversation with the influencer direct what would you say that the best way is there or is that one yeah i think it depends on how much stress you're writing to take on right the reason why you can go through an agency it's not like caa in the 1990s where you can't get harrison ford unless you talk to the agent right everyone has a business inquiries email in their instagram and in their facebook and their youtube right so yeah i mean you can deal with creators front lines if you want to you can reach out directly but you'll have a low response rate and it'll be a pain and

some of them are great to work with so if you build a trusted relationship with an agency or a management company where you know that they're going to help wrangle a little bit more it'll take a lot of stress off your plate but you might be giving up a anywhere from 10 to 50 margins so i mean it really just depends on on what you're willing to do i generally recommend people find a really professional agency to work with just because you might have a bad taste in your mouth about the entire market if you picked the wrong 10 influencers to start with 100 agree one hundred percent i mean yeah i mean karine if you wanna carry on from that uh i just would like to add that uh probably if you are just starting your business and you're kind of a startup and you have very limited budget uh you can try yourself like test uh the uh ideas you have in your mind just this

way this way that way uh then you will win a lose and when you lose just come to the professional agency ask them what they could offer to you uh they will uh definitely offer you a some certain strategy and also they really know who pro will will be the best uh option for you as the influencer list or ambassador whatsoever this is like something that you could start with but if you are like a really huge brand and you have a lot of money and you don't have time or a department that can just run uh campaigns by themselves then your obvious answer is just come to the agency fantastic and carolina how immersed do you think they should be um when we are planning uh comprehensive strategies for our clients because this is the main parts of our business

designing comprehensive strategies especially for non-brand damage brands to show their to position um in gaming um and if in that strategy we have influencers ambassadors who will be deeply involved in in the campaign in the strategy we bring them in the process uh we do workshops with with them with the clients because they have a lot of creative inputs they very very well know their audience because well if they didn't they wouldn't be influencers in the first place they they are people who have creative ideas all the time they know how to create content that moves their audiences so so we are bringing them in the process uh we are letting them shape how the campaign looks um in a way there's of course also the client and the agency but but they are involved in a very high level and this is very beneficial beneficial for the brand for the campaign and from the for the

influencers who are um they are learning how to how to work in this professional environment before we set how important it is that that influencers understand how to work with brands that they behave professionally that they understand that this is business this is um this is not just creating content for fun anymore and and we bring them in inside the process and they are they are a part of it as a let's say sort of outside creative team um and this is this this has proved very effective and efficient in the past fantastic love that you're doing workshops i think that's really important educating both sides because sometimes there can be a clash because you know it's a new space so that's yes we are workshops and they are creative sessions so for example once we have strategic direction for brands positioning we

develop ideas how to how to uh spread the message what what specific campaigns will we plan what influencers how will influencer convey that story and we do this brainstorms with with the client with influencers with us as the agency and the strategies to come up with ideas to help each side learn from from one another and this this works really well fantastic that's great um okay for the sake of the audience then you know um where would you say the best platform is at the moment and i guess the influence is to an extent for mobile games app developers to be on you know what would you if i was you know if i was a mobile get if i was a mobile game and i was thinking okay well where should i be going you know say my target audience is you know 30 to 35 year old women let's just use actually no let's not go target audience let's keep this quite broad so i want to

keep it support for everyone you know for this for our indus for this industry at the moment what platforms would you say they should go on what's working well at this this point in time uh i think it would be platforms that have mainly mobile traffic so instagram tick tock um youtube youtube varies from channel to channel some channels have more uh pc traffic some have more mobile uh so so it varies and um and the platforms that can allow you to to target precisely for example twitch does not allow the precise targeting when it comes to 2h um [Music] so so this is um somewhat could be somewhat difficult but uh when uh focusing on conversion those would be the platforms that can con convert to moba uh but if we are still in the face where we have to build awareness it would be a mix of channels that that corresponded the target demographic

so this this is what i would say a mix of um of awareness first and then converting from from the platforms that have mobile traffic mainly and then the channel and the specific channels that that resonate with arthur brilliant phil what are your thoughts yeah i'm gonna tell the boring answer because i used to be an exec over there but facebook has a wonderful ad platform when it comes to conversions so um yeah instagram facebook the family of apps it just really works for mobile and they've got wonderful abilities to plug in cpi campaigns and it's cheap and it's it's great it's targeted especially as you said for 30 to 35 year old women easier to find on facebook than a lot of other platforms so you know there's just more inventory there however if you're looking at kind of core influencer stuff right where it's like their actual influencers talking to their audience not always the best play to go on something like a facebook where

it just feels like it's a little more media-centric and the leaning is a little different instagram's great right instagram stories has wonderful conversion for that stuff but for mobile games maybe maybe not for those i really like to look at twitch and youtube and twitch because the dwell time is incredibly high so if you can get someone to sit down and watch someone play a mobile game they'll sit and watch for a half hour to an hour right and they'll really get it in their brain so if you have like an immersive game or you're you know call of duty mobile or fortnite mobile or like any of the wonderful rpgs or decidia or apple arcade stuff yes absolutely twitch is awesome and then of course youtube has that perfect mix of like deep influencer longer form programming but also really interesting ways to convert also really easy ways to add buy so you can run pre-roll before an influencer that's then an ambassador your game and it just makes for this really virtuous cycle as well um so yeah i mean there's different places for different things i mean i've

run uh uh campaigns for mobile games on pinterest and it did great so this there's not really a one size fits all it's just like are you playing word scapes or are you playing like a horror game right you gotta find the right fit fantastic um two things i'd like to to just go into what you said there um pre-roll so we do for everyone that's doing an influencer campaign say on youtube would you recommend pre-rolls a fundamental part of the influencer sort of buy as such i think that it's an interesting part if i mean if you're working with a company that's that's targeting on that level or an mcn or something like that that's able to get that reserve inventory and buy out a channel and yada yada yada yeah it's really effective to say like hey dragon age now make sure to download it now and then cut straight to a video of this video is brought to you by dragon age and now i'm gonna go play dragon age right it's just a good way to like keep the story going is it necessary no but i think that it's an awesome way to like introduce

somebody to environment with something a little bit more premium before they go into the user-generated content yeah and twitch and that's interesting too i totally get that the storytelling part of it and the long dwell time and everything but would you is there an argument that you might be extending the journey to download yeah it's not a great conversion platform right i mean when people are watching live content they realize that when they click away from the live content they're missing something they can't go back to right it's really hard to convert from live so yeah i mean it's really more of an awareness play it's more of like a let's say stick in your craw kind of thing like if you're watching somebody play elder scrolls blades for long enough then you make the assumption that they're likely to go download it later which is terrible for your data right because then you're like oh i got zero clicks on it but they're not accounting for the lift that you get afterwards um but also in mostly kind of westernized countries like in western europe and north america there's not a lot of mobile gamers also

and there's not a lot of audience behind mobile games like there is in southeast asia in the middle east and south america so it's also what territory are you and you've got to be tactical on that side as well fantastic okay yeah it's a a lot of variables and it comes down to you know quite a few guys the points you've made about the brief and the kpi it's you know it's not one size fits all um bruno i'd love to understand your thoughts on this too um regarding sort of platforms we've got sort of a mixed opinion here so you'll be good to get a third uh yeah i can agree with some things that we're already told uh for example that if you're looking for uh some creative integration that you wanna uh share with the audience you definitely should go on youtube and do not work with approvals no it should be a

integration start somewhere before the third minutes of the video like the most uh effective way to present like one minutes about your mobile game for example uh this is like from our experience as an agency uh if we're talking about instagram that could work for a female audience uh but not for the mail traffic unfortunately it will not work at all because instagram is still a platform for women uh with the female content with the lifestyle and family and fashion profiles etc this is their main target audience for now uh i'm not agree about uh the statement about the twitch that it will not work for uh uh performance if we're talking about for example uh

games that have a pc modification not the mobile game but the pc one so if you know how uh to work with the correct mechanics on twitch you can definitely bring uh not only installs but a good uh roi i will have a solo presentation a bit later today about the twitch and the mechanics that we use uh there and there is the results that we actually uh saw during this work so if you're interested more about this topic probably could join me and we could uh continue this conversation in the q a session later uh yeah so basically it's uh the the platform the the the way that you choose the platform that you want to go and the way you want to promote the game it's

really depends on your goal on the game on their uh target audience sometimes on the country that you wanna uh go into uh yeah okay brilliant i'm aware of time so um i think i'll keep it quite an open question what's the future here what's what's the future of influencer marketing how do you see this this market developing moving forward um whoever wants to jump in you know go ahead yeah i mean i'm horribly biased because i'm the ceo of a metaverse company but i think we're going to continue finding more interactive and engaging ways for people to chat avatar to avatar kind of that fortnite roblox minecraft thing that was introduced is going to be kind of more of a cost of doing business with that immersion and then how does content play within three-dimensional space instead of two-dimensional space so am i going to be wearing ar glasses

and then seeing experiences plastered against walls as i go out in town or am i going to have more social experiences within games where the influencers exist within games and then are also promoting other things so and then i'm also really interested in web 3.0 nfts holograms there's so many things right around the corner as we get to 5g connectivity and everything's moving faster and lighter and cheaper that you're gonna see over the next 10 years technologies we can't even imagine right now hitting mainstream fantastic yeah the whole nfc game is it's crazy there's an agency's making some big moves in that space so you know it's always going to keep moving um carolina what were your thoughts um yes i agree with with phil about the great potential of the of the mate verse uh one of the the reasons why this is uh uh this has such great potential is that it is um engaging and immersive and i think uh in the times when our attention span

is shortening and there's more and more ad clutter brands have to find a way to engage their uh their consumers so um they engage through influencers who in turn engage their audience but i think a great trend would be something we are already doing right now so having um the audience shape the content with the influencers and as i mentioned before um with with the freeway workshops we work in influencers to shape their campaigns so it's um it all comes down down to a point where every the content we produce uh the branded content is it's more engaging is more tailored to the needs of the influencers um this will work great on on on big influencers but there is also an another another side to the story with the small influencers there are more and more

solutions how to um automate uh their content so so this is something i see i have biased thoughts on this but uh but it seems to work uh but only for for small influencers uh for campaigns that that aim for uh limited uh reach but on on a very limited budget they think it's more you know you'd be encouraging that the micro influencer approach but more utilizing a platform in order to streamline the process because you know who wants to speak to 200 000 micro influencers and timings and everything i imagine that's pretty stressful yes yes it's really really helpful in that way but this will not reach a certain level of massive communications the the massive influencers can can get fantastic um karina final thoughts on on that side

of things uh yeah so i think that everything is just uh moving away from this static images to uh uh in favor of the video content uh like tick tock literally made a revolution during this pandemic time uh everyone is so obsessed with the format they use with the video with their recommendation that you can just scroll all day long and see all these entertainment videos so the main competitors such as instagram come up with the reels and try to do something with the influence that tiktok has now uh also youtube with their shorts uh videos using uh superstars uh to promote the platform such for example maybe you heard about the bts as a

kpop group so yeah it's definitely moving to this format it will be uh very very pop i think it will be very very popular in the near future uh the entertainment short content uh straight to the point uh no matter what category you are uh uh coming from it could be just uh funny videos about cats or funny videos about your hobby of funny videos about your job etc etc okay brilliant um i'd love to um if there's any sort of questions coming through um brian coming back in i'm here i'm here this is fascinating guys there's there's a a a great great amount of information coming out of this this morning this is not an area i've done an awful lot of work in so i've been making notes furiously and i think

there's there's been some fantastic um knowledge bombs dropped this morning we do have a few questions coming in from the audience so uh the first one is are we seeing a move towards more long-term relationships with a focus on results excuse me results based performance yes yeah i mean to say it in short as people get more comfortable with influencer marketing and they understand their return on ad spend you're seeing people who buy an influencer realize the return on that spend is great and then keep rebuying them and rebuying them and rebuying them and you're seeing things like dr lupo in his state farm partnership and i mean yeah they're they're realizing it's easier it cuts down on a lot of the work of having to restart a new campaign every single time and building loyalty within the fan base so yeah you've see you see a lot of it now you're going to see a lot more of it in the coming years and i think that that was something that came through the last couple of days and on some of our other tracks is um

there's a growing demand for authenticity you know people are looking for something that's real and true so that that absolutely speaks to that and the next question is are there any developers out there that you're aware of supporting one or more of their own team members to build their own influence and audience so growing from within perhaps there are such companies uh i don't know uh game developers who are doing that but i do know other brands there are brands that are that's um sell gaming peripherals and gaming uh equipment um i i know some game developers actually discourage that um where that some uh information might leak in an uncontrolled way when when the influencer for example is streaming and he's talking with his audience and so so

i know some who are discouraging that and um i think twitch twitch is a a good example also also another game developer but twitch is is actually encouraging its employees to to stream on twitch to build their own audience to be a part of the community because they are all about um the community so there are some companies actually i don't know game developers i assume they are game developers but but i don't know a specific example of one yeah the main one that comes to mind is like ronnie 2k with 2k sports right he's got the like you know a lot about him he's got a shoe collection he plays with all the coolest athletes and yeah i mean i think that that kind of feeds into the rockstar ceo thing we're seeing or like every company needs a face that exhibits their personality so you're starting to see more of those employees take that but generally it kind of lives on the splashy executive level i haven't seen a lot of people doing it on the like let's get a community manager to do it because the scale is just not there it would make a lot more sense just to go get

influencers i've seen it i have seen it in the past um i think it may have been done by accident in all honesty but um you know i was meeting with one of the product managers there and then um you know two years later he's then taking pictures with with guys at their expo and he's become like a twitch influencer so i think it is it's a great strategy i think i think there needs to be more time as well for brands to actually focus on building their own social platforms through working with influencers and developing usage rights and having that because that's the most important thing you know own your own communities and i think that's going to be more prevalent as we go on great point alex thank you and um final question before before we jump off uh folks are there opportunities to reach beyond game specific influencers i.e sports hunting foods etc where it's relevant to the game and are there any good examples you can offer

yeah i think especially in the mobile world like we did one with dude perfect when i was at mob crush we did dude perfect uh campaign for pub g mobile we got 30 million organic views and it was just it was great because he's got a young they've got young male audience members who are the kind of people that play pubg mobile and they did pub g mobile irl so it kind of showed off dynamics of the games in real life and it went super viral and it was great and also we on the more casual games right we did at studio 71 did roman atwood with piano tiles through cheetah mobile and because it's more of like a family game and he challenged his audience to play it and send in their scores and that went really well so to be honest when i look at gaming campaigns i look at kind of core gamers as your way to like show the dynamics of the game and get people addicted to those but i see in terms of acquisition i like to go after non-endemics a lot of times well as somebody who is i i tend to have my second monitor on and i watch a lot of stuff outside games and

food food channels and ufos um i'm not i'm not proud but i'm not going to deny it and there have been quite a few uh campaigns i've seen sam the cooking guy and um yeah there's a whole bunch of people out there with a decent audience who have been roped in but it never really sits quite well and i think it misses that authenticity that you've been looking for so it can be hard it can be hard anyway listen folks i could go on all morning it has been genuinely fascinating thank you so much what a great panel and a great way to kick off unfortunately we're out of time as you'll have seen um kareena is uh has kind of dropped out because she's up next flying solo so i'd like to thank you all carolina alex phil it has been genuinely wonderful phil take some down time see if you can relax get some sleep good plan i wish i could do the same um thank you all so very very much i look forward to seeing you at a future pocket

gamer connects but for now we'll sign off thanks folks guys great to meet you great day bye