Panel: A New Era – How Alternative App Stores Are Opening Up New Opportunities For Game Makers.

[Music] next up we've got um a 30 minute panel um we'll just let everybody come up over to the stage the name of this one is a new how alternative app stores are opening up new opportunities for game makers and I will shortly pass you over to the moderator for this chat hello everybody oh there we go um yeah we've got an awesome awesome panel for you today following on from Paulo's granular analysis of uh the opportunity on iOS so we'll uh we'll take a bit of a step back today but um it'd be good to yeah go down the line and just do super quick intros from each of you uh who you are and and what your company does hi uh I'm

Chris from bipu we are a all-in-one uh analytics and live Ops platform for mobile and web that's pretty pretty much it straightforward hi I'm Sam Director of Business Development for us and APAC for aptoid you've just heard all about aptoid um I've been in the industry for 5 years now previous aptoid I was in the publishing side bringing games to different platforms now I'm in charge of bringing games to Apptoid hi I'm Shalom um managing director of our alternative store uh with digital turbine digital turbine is app growth platform we help app developers to grow their businesses with user acquisition uh running pre-install campaigns with carriers H monetization with our monetization Solutions and recently launched app stores and we'll touch about it in a second hello everybody my name is Yanni and I'm one of the founders of geeg laab and coo and we focus on two things which is App Store optimization and

specifically AB testing the creatives of the app stores and then nowadays also creative level optimization on the UA side amazing thanks everyone so I think as I said if we could start by maybe taking a a step back for those who don't know obviously the the framing of this panel is you know this new era because you know alternative app stores have been around in in some cases for a while already but actually because of that changing picture of of many things that Paulo just talked about we're entering a kind of an era of New Opportunities so it'd be great to hear maybe starting with you Shalom about just a potted history I guess of of of the industry and I guess where we're at now in its Evolution sure so I think that you know where alternative stores is not is not a new thing it exists in 2012 uh from the previous decade and there are more than 300 alternative stores now and there's a big misc misconception was partially you know Justified that in the past decade alternative stores started mainly in

apok um most of them were in China in India and up developers trying alternative stores in the past decade H relatively disappointed because the revenue generation proportionally was relatively very low uh and that actually changing right now because of different things like regulation like available technologies that emerging and the developers need to create much bigger growth so we are seeing now up Dev alternative stores uh surging again Rising again and the misconception that we're trying now to break is that hey guys those stores that are rising right now again they're not Rising only in AA countries they're rising in tier one countries and there was a great presentation over here by Paulo over here from uptoid sharing about the growth opportunities different tier one countries and this is exactly what's happening right now and we see that in US H we see that in Europe we see that in Japan South Korea and this is brings to developers finally an opportunity to integrate and start growing revenues

with a store that they tested in the past but now is able to generate sustainable revenues for them hopefully that's in general overview is helpful yeah and it would be great to hear I know so Chris and Yanni you're not so in the weeds day today of alternative distribution but with your you know your businesses are you you know now seeing more companies start to ask you know okay what about analytics for these platforms what about you know optimization for these platforms yeah like uh as sh mentioned it's not not like a new thing it's being around but the knowledge about the alternative stores it's being like pretty little and then it's mostly focused on Asian market or used to be and people didn't know what to do there but now it's being more and more popular to ask like what kind of things we should do in alternative stores and like how to use the knowledge and that's usually also the biggest uh pain point for everybody that when you're moving the new places where

you have a different kind of audiences you need to act differently and you need the knowledge so yes people are interested for sure uh but the pain point is having the knowledge what to really do because there's not that many people who can share you what to do with iOS and Google play it's mandatory people being doing that they know how to test things where to drive the traffic what kind of audience everything is ready made to you but now with the new ones people are looking for the knowledge but I think this is going to be the year that people start to share have a case studies and finding the ways to do with the new places yeah I guess just in terms of what we're seeing at bip breu I think the interesting thing about alternative distribution right now is that uh correct me if I'm wrong because you guys know way more about this than I do but it seems like it's largely been the domain of uh very successful Studios looking for additional scale where where you know prior they you know they kind of maxed out um iOS and uh Google play but I feel like maybe like the market

conditions you know being what they are have um you know kind of leveled the playing field in a way where smaller and more medium-sized developers are starting to pursue these opportunities as well like uh partners of ours uh wizard games uh exploring fire uh Amazon Fire TV and um you know obviously uh uh when Unity had previously announced runtime fees there was a lot of conversations about web so I think it's become less about um you know where do I find that last little bit of scale that I can't find and more like uh an additional incremental Revenue stream for even smaller more medium-sized developers and um so I think the to your point I think that knowledge is is really going to start to grow because these are like the scrappy Studios who are doing what it takes to survive that um you know are really are are going to do so much learning so quickly right um so I think it's going to be a very interesting time for for alternative distribution as a whole yeah I need to add like a I'm definitely on the same page that the big companies that have already made the successful stories and having like hundreds of

millions of downloads in Apple Store and Google Play It's kind of no-brainer to also jump in alternative stores because the brand is so well known so it's a little bit easier to move there but now we are basically waiting to them share what to do how to do and how the whole thing works because if you have a small game and you're struggling with the audience already with the mainstream stores it's not going to be easier with the alternative store so yeah that's definitely how it goes right now yeah I definitely think too it's important as you enter these alternative distribution models that um you keep in mind that the player themselves can be wildly different I mean especially going from like mobile to anything web right like it's been a big eye opener for me over the course of the last year or so since we launch support for web I'm just seeing how differently uh those players behave and and so you can't really just kind of copy and paste your work from one store to the next it's you really need to think about um the nature of the player in each platform um how can you Cur your content for them and so that's

why obviously analytics is so critical across all your channels Sam obviously you know you're speaking to to developers and Publishers day in day out about alternative distribution and particularly you know alternative Stores um what's your assessment of kind of where we're at now in the the development of alternative distribution yeah well I think a lot of developers are seeing the benefits of these alternative stores like Shalom said there's I didn't even know there's 300 stores out there I thought there was just in the tens of Stores um which is amazing but that just means there's a lot of work and a lot of challenges for these developers but there are also a lot of benefits for developers each store has their own benefits it depends on their Market Their audience and what the stores actually offer themselves right but I think the two key benefits that is consistent across all these stores is One Market divers diversification so meaning developers

don't have to be so dependent on Apple and Google they can find ways to reach new users reach reach new audiences in different markets and then two that's consistent across all these stores is monetization so all these stores offer better Revenue share that's a given than Apple and Google but they they can also offer something a little bit different so for example with aptoid we have a loyalty program where we offer up to 20% in bonuses for users that's how we incentivize users to our store and to spend more in our stores this is great for users because they get more for their money but this is also good for developers because this 20% comes from the aptoid share not the developers share so developers end up retaining more of the revenue and earning more as well and each store has different unique features and different incentives for users which is just more beneficial for Developers

and what other kind of I guess benefits of alternative stores would you would you highlight guys I mean is it you know discoverability is it you know the opportunity to kind of curate less saturated market and I guess more freedoms as well potentially you know there are speaking about numbers 300 stores there are 4.4 million applications in Google and apple right 4.4 that's pretty pretty lot right so discoverability is really a problem and it's problem for for smaller Studios and we speak about the the bigger ones okay they have their abilities to go and continue promoting the titles but what about the smaller ones in this industry when 80% of the developers are struggling cpis are increasing and our pools are decreasing we need to continue giving the developers an opportunity to continue growing otherwise you know it's going to be a very small operation over here in terms of developers so I think that you know the biggest thing and we speak about Innovation Innovation is important is first of all improving the economic model and Revenue shares over

here are extremely extremely important now those things in in terms of innovation and discoverability they're great I think that the first and foremost after H the developer understand that they need to be part of this ecosystem they need to start embracing the strategy of user AC acquisition you speak about you know distribution of alternative APK how do you distri distribute applications that have different billing model if you use Google play Then you use Google billing if you don't use Google billing then you are not able to reside in Google store so where do you go where's your home and that's the biggest challenge that was actually up until now with developers because there was no option to do side loading uh but now with regulation changes side loing is finally available in tier one countries so if you build the right strategy around how do you distribute your custom apks around the world then I think Innovation around it comes in the second thing because you first of all improve your economic models you start growing and then you

know stores as themselves we will not build stores of Google and apple tomorrow they have invested billion of dollars into it for the past decade and a half that will take all of us a little bit time so Innovation will come H there are few things that you know that you just mentioned about giving you know benefits to to users giving them discounts into in the purchases loyalty programs that's all great uh but eventually it has to come with one very strong economic model and scalability in regards to distribution everything else will come afterwards as we build this new ecosystem in three five years the ecosystem of alternative apps alternative stores will look completely different and the developers hopefully will benefit out of it I'd have to imagine too like another benefit of uh alternative app stores as I can jump in sorry out yeah but uh would be support right like uh I I mean to show a hands how many people here have had an app or an account suddenly deleted from from Apple or Google Play and you know who do you to right like how do you even find

out any clarities this guy's right here you know he's got a face and a name and you can message him and find out what's going on so I I think that's something that small and mediumsized developers struggle with a lot right I mean uh yeah we've all been in that boat so I have to imagine that the support landscape of an alternative app store is significantly different than what one would be used to the monoliths of of Apple and Google um so but but that needs to be taken in a pinch of salt because when that company grows to 1,000 2,000 people then it's going to going to be really hard to reach this guy um so we need to create scalable Solutions I think that competition will make the work done because they will grow to 2,000 3,000 people other stores will grow to eventually competition app developers and user questions will make all of us look much more competitive and we'll have to give better service to our clients because if we don't give better service to our clients they will go to somebody else so I think that's how competition makes everyone eventually be better in what they build and better service they provide yeah definitely the competition will be

the biggest uh Game Changer because if there's only two people or two companies that are ruling the world they are making the rules and they are pretty similar and the competition is low but when the competition increases then obviously the bigger benefits coming out because people want to change and they want to get the developers to your platform and your store so you try to figure it out the ways to invite them and when you have a successful stories and you start to get more people in then the big boys need to start to think like oh we need to change so the competition is the key because if there is no competition nothing's going to change so I think that's going to be the biggest benefit in this case but then the when there's pros and cons the cons are like uh the resources that realizing like how to use the new stores because we are struggling a lot or being struggling a lot with the clients that when they are testing and optimizing the

storefronts they think that if they're testing something with the Google Play and they find okay this is the best solution let's use it also in iOS they are not same places so you need to do the same work with the iOS and then now with the alternative stores you need to do it there so you need to have resources which is hard for the smaller companies for sure I think before we dive and we will dive into you know the challenges in a second but I think to crystallize it for for people in the audience you know there has been that perception of you know bigger grossing games you know 3% Revenue uplift or 5% it can be you know super meaningful um you know obviously there are games that you know will be more suitable currently for to you know to be listed on an alternative Absol for example but are we seeing that change and you know is the opportunity kind of democratizing to more types of games and monitization models um well you know since we're speaking

about economic model that improves the inner purchases Revenue share right the first and foremost and the immediate client Bas is the Hardcore the core Publishers Publishers that have 80 90% of their revenues coming from I APS but having said that you know it's really interesting because we see a trend where hyper casuals where they're less relevant to Alternative stores are changing their business model to hybrid casuals where you'll be surprised that some of their revenues are coming from different titles from I APS mainly so that that's also an angle but I think uh first and foremost is the core and the heavy I AP Spenders uh you know we have a theory that you know if they're publisher with 70% for example in a purchase right revenues uh 30% is coming from ads ads on alternative apks you know monetizing ads on alter look a little bit different than monetizing on Google packages yeah you have different data points you have different networks that buying or not buying your ad on alternative UK some of them think that it might be fro so there's lot of

Education process over here so what happens into your total LTV is that higher or lower than Google packages so and if you take an application that has more than 50% of the revenues based on ads and you decrease the ARA on ads and just a little bit only increase on IP then you not necessarily increasing the LTV of the developer right so that's a point to consider this is why you have to choose application first formost that's coming from mainly I AP driven app and improve the LTV on the I AP side decrease a little bit on the ads improve imp improve overall the TV and start growing that brings also much more confidence to the app developer to start migrating other titles into the store okay let's do challenges because everyone's desperate to do challenges um obviously you know we know there's this big Market opportunity out there which is again evolving more and more with each piece of legislation each piece of Education um but what are the challenges both real and perhaps perceived that you know developers are are telling you about perhaps um you know what are the

what are the real legitimate kind of challenges that exist in terms of accessing this opportunity even for potentially those midcore I AP games and what are potentially some things that they've heard that might be a misconception yeah well to add to your point Shalom um the genres of games that do work well on our platform is these midcore games because there's an incentive for the users to then install the alternate app store and then to play these games and to be rewarded from these incentives right so that means a lot of the Casual games midcore game sorry uh hybrid casual games their users are less willing to convert they don't trust apps as much but there's been a lot of friction put in place by Apple and by Google Paulo just mentioned a lot of them um if you didn't hear us talk by the way and you just walked in I really recommend you watching it on YouTube when it's available because he goes very in depth into the iOS restrictions but

these friction points have been put in place by both these major two and this then just causes more turn and less Tross but once this friction is removed over time and they will be removed then trust will naturally be built and these users won't turn as much as they currently are so we'll definitely see more casual and hybrid casual players and games coming to these platforms okay have to imagine as well um you know just thinking thinking out loud but one of the challenges I guess kind of bouncing off your point is just time right for smaller mediumsized Studios especially how do you how do you effectively manage all these channels right you can't just copy and paste strategies from one to the next um so probably you know time is going to be a big factor you have to be very strategic with your resources you know especially in the market conditions that we're in um so Choose Wisely yeah and I have like a big concern that when people are seeing like okay now now other companies are going

towards alternative stores so we need to also do that because that's how competition works you start to see like your competitors are doing that so you are like okay let's do it but you kind of half ass it so you just put it out and hope that something happens because you don't maybe have the knowledge or you just hope the best so that's my biggest concern in this case that yes they know that there is the store they need know that okay we need to be there but they are not willing to do the research and the effort that okay I still focus on iOS and Google Play because they are right now making all the money for us and maybe in the future the alternative will be something else so let's go there just put it out and leave it there if we are getting Penny out of it good job so that's my biggest concern that people are not willing to do the work like same way and treating it as a normal App Store and doing the testing doing the optimizing doing the research so yeah that's my biggest

concern here I I I would summarize it as three challenges that I see that the team of here shared one is the is the understanding is the knowledge is the misconception that you can actually have a business scalable business with alternative apks with alternative stores in tier one countries that can be contributing massively slowly gradually to your to revenues second is the fact that you need to invest into Integrations of those of those those alternative payments and you know for one Studio it can take one month for another Studio can took two months but that's something that you need to invest and you need to absorb because you believe that the return and the outcome will be much greater than your your investment and the third one which is in my opinion is the most important is the fact that you have to have a strategy of distribution you have to have a strategy of user acquisition in mind and if you bring three of them together then this is how those challenges are eventually are being able to be unlocked and the developer can actually navigate okay

this is where we're going we have an iOS revenues column we have the Android revenues column and this is the alternative revenues column and it needs to grow quarter by quarter periodically and this is how they can diversify grow the business and this is the strategy and just to add that as well um the challenge of Distributing to many different platforms there is solutions for that already in place such as like aptoid connect flexion and a few others as well um that allows developers to distribute to many different stores but not only just distribute but to manage on consoles or whatever it might be as well to make it easier to put your games and keep your games on many different stores yeah it's it's super interesting point CU Yanni you you know you flagged a potential issue of you know developers pushing games out there and not really doing much to promote them but actually as you say sam one of the Legacy concerns has been you know the in too many Integrations too many different jurisdictions to deal with the you know the legal side on them and obviously you know things beyond that such as the you

know the the admon infrastructure or whatever it may be but um be be cool to hear in our kind of last five minutes you know where each of you thinks this is where's this all going I know it's changing every day because there's different legislation and things like that in different GEOS all over the place but 5 to 10 years from now where's how is this opportunity going to crystallize so I'm going to go first cuz mine will be the least informed opinion I'll let the experts go into better detail but um obviously the regulatory landscape is what allows this to even exist right um so really at the whim of political will and there has been a shift in the political landscape as of yesterday uh so you know I really I'm really curious to see um how how long the regulation that has permitted the the rise of alternative distribution how long that lasts right because it's very easy to Cozy up to the people that make these decisions like these Sy are in place so

um I mean each you know the owners of the big two we're in attendance um and and that that is a factor um you know is is Apple going to be beholden to the regulation in the in the United States is Google going to be beholden to that regulation is their political will to reduce monopolies um I think it's fair to say that it's possible that there might be less regulatory conditions that make it uh more alternative distribution channels open um that said developers are really Scrappy and and they're always going to be looking for those alternative channels you know I have partners that have moved to web I have partners that are trying fire I have partners that are trying making games for epic I mean they'll do what it takes to survive because they're very passionate about what they do so I think those are the the two interesting sort of forces that play the the top down forces which are going to change um and and the bottom up forces which are kind of that that engine Underneath It All all the time 5 to 10 years time um give me a market share prediction for returns

about EXA yeah well Google and apple definitely still dominate um that's under deniable but I think their dominance will just be significantly less uh which would mean there's more room for OEM stores carrier stores publisher stores independent stores like ourselves right uh there's also going to be a lot more opportunity for direct consumers for developers to reach consumers directly and the question I think the most interesting question is will there be too many stores you said there's 300 stores but these are the vast majority of these stores are smaller stores right um the when we're talking about the major stores though some will succeed some will fail in 5 years time whether there's going to be five major stores that's taken up most of the market or 50 or 100 I don't know but like you were saying Johnny earlier it's better than two right the best way I like to explain this I had to explain this to my mom the other day when she was asking about what

is an alternative store I I literally just said to her like imagine you're doing grocery shopping and all you had was Audi and little or Target or Walmart for the American audiences here that would suck right The Limited choices so with alternative stores in the future it's just going to offer more opportunities for developers more choices and more Innovation right which is only a good thing for the industry as a whole agree um I didn't explain to my my mom uh it's complicated uh I think that you know 5 to 10 years I agree about the the the legislation and the regulation I think that this a huge part of the success of alternative stores but I think that this train has left the station that's not there's nothing that you can in order to stop it you can maybe why because of the forces the forces mainly that are sitting in this room app developers need growth this we have available Technologies and it's moving uh how they can stop it with different

you know political influences I don't know but that's definitely is going to move and continue growing I think that there will be more stores that will open up developers opportunities for diversifying their revenue I think that diversification is going to be very important and what we will see in my opinion in the future is not necessarily a store I think that we will see more and more d2c that store is my opinion it's a name code for hey I have a different payment than Google's payment and eventually I'm taking this APK and I'm Distributing it and it can be one distribution in APAC in China in India in Us in Europe different countries and it can be another one others so I think that's the method that will go and operate more and more as we grow this industry in the next several years stores are there but eventually you go out of store and you exploring and your exploration enables you to increase your operation your revenues because you are localizing your

application with its payment to each and every country because every country has different needs and different uh behaviors that's Yan play us out I I don't think we'll have time for questions but um obviously feel free to reach out to any of the guys uh after bit Yanni take us out yeah uh quickly 5 to 10 years I hope I will be retired so I don't need to know anything about the alternative stores but if I need to know something uh I think that there will be like a two or like a three bigger ones and then there will be the smaller ones so some bigger alternative Source will be like in a bigger Spotlight there for sure but then one big thing that we need to do is our evil vendors need to be also part of that because people need to have the tools on our case like having AB testing opportunities and uh the data analyzes opportunities and everything like that but I think that there will be like a two three bigger stores on top of

Google Play and iOS but I hope that I don't be around during that time anymore to app toid on the podium right third third position by then well third position now actually probably in terms of users but um do we have time for maybe one one one question one quick question come on come on guys in let's go let's get a question it's also lunchtime so maybe people are hungry awesome well thank you guys that was uh yeah super informative and as I said reach out to the guys with any questions thank you thanks everyone