One-hit wonders don’t create neurons – But your brand should

[Music] [Music] we can have a talk about one as what hit wonders the idea is that one hit wonders don't create neurons but your brand should so what we'll do is you we're gonna have a chat I'm gonna get the guys to introduce themselves and then we're gonna sort of talk around subjects oh sorry don't introduce yourself and tell people what you do sure my name is Samuel I'm one of co-founders and creative director of Zeptolab I'm in a mobile games industry around around 15 years I just three of those years I spent here in Helsinki working

in digital chocolate and yeah our best problem most known game is cut the rope obviously but we're not only about cut the rope we have several other games which are very successful yeah hi I'm Hannah I'm from light near I'm the marketing communications lead there and I have my background and actually entertainment this is my first gaming company I've worked before with different kinds of artists and festivals and Live Nation for example and and slush I've helped them out since 2011 a lot and channel came out of a conversation we were having about you know the the role of brand in general so I think you've got a lot to add on that as well Natasha do you want to discover something yeah I'm gonna try to be shorts due to all the stuff I do so hi my name is Natasha Trigg I am a CEO of

snowfall for you may be more known as gaming company that focuses on moving games and momen brand other than that I'm active in the gaming industry as a board member of nail games IG da Finland's and chairperson of Turco game hub as a business cluster in the southwest Finland and someone who often gets mistaken for moominpappa mommy mama went wrong yeah so let's talk about Brad so and obviously you know you know we all know about cut the rope we all know about you know that sort of idea but there's this question about the role of a brand I think is sort of central let's define it first so we all know we're talking about the same thing how do you guys look at brand in in-depth life how do you how do you think about them well first of all I think it's important to mention that when were working on like the first original version of cuts rope we're not thinking that much about brand you know

or about like selling plush toys or anything like that it was more on how make the best possible game and to make best possible game you tanda already working on the I think most important components of the brand you need to have these a very appealing and memorable and original character you need to have a catchy name it's great to have a catchy tune and music in the game so in a sense while you know like achieving a goal of creating a great game you already I think like at least half way of creating a great brand if the game will succeed and I think we pretty much keep the same pattern with any game that will work on yeah I think this interesting area because obviously a lot of people who I mean I've got marketing training so I kind of think about brands inherently it's gonna put it in my DNA but essentially you know a lot of the behaviors that you do as a brand manager are essentially a lot of the design

choices you're making because finding that integrity finding out I think new threads are identifiable it's kind of one of the key things and if you think about just the basic principle what a brand is I mean the word comes from literally getting something hot metal and stamping it on something so you know it's yours I mean obviously you've got more remarketing background anywhere but you recognize this kind of kind of evolving working process that delivers that identity yes definitely I mean what brand is is basically when you have a recognizable brand so we all you know we all have it's actually like scientific it's in our brain we have our own specified neurons for certain things that we find the most important in our lives we have a neuron for our mothers and our most important relationships but we also have neurons for McDonald's and H&M and Game of Thrones and Angry Birds

and the relevant question is why why do we actually have these specification new runs in our brain for certain kinds of brands and I think the relevant answer to that is because they drive certain kind of meaningful emotions in us with a repeated pattern and also they encourage us to take meaningful action and that kind of cycle is what actually makes a neuron in our brain and something that the one-hit wonders don't do because our brain doesn't prioritize the information because it sees that it doesn't matter to our lives and that's why it's so important to also include in the marketing messaging the kind of emotions that you want the players or your target audience I mean target audience is super ly important you have to know who your

target player is because then the messaging and also the emotions that you want the people to have are a lot different I think we'll end up coming back to cinema' on that one because I think I think intrinsically that comes out of the kind of game you want to make but I kind of want to move it for example I think I'm here here what I think I'm hearing is affected the brain is looking for ways to shortcut things which she does regularly and it's so it's forming these neurons in order to be able to make that pathway work and every time we complete that path where we're getting some satisfaction therefore we're getting some dopamine release and therefore we're getting positive reinforcements that now when you're coming along with a brand is so famous and iconic as the Moomins you're not going through that kind of experimental process it's already there how does that then translate to other media yeah well before I get to that I would like to just add colleagues it's the brand is basically standing for something and standing meaning having uniqueness whatever that uniqueness is

depending on the product literally whatever brand we're talking about whatever industry we are talking about so the end gaming as such is not much different when it comes to branding like any other product I mean or sales because usually people it's one thing how you approach target audience because especially when you are dealing with the casual players or the hardcore gamers of course the marketing approach is different but the branding is pretty much the same thing so and there when it comes to these neurons and all of that story and meaningfulness when it comes to uniqueness in the story is something that comes there in the back of our heads is it a good thing or bad is it part of our tastes personal taste like do I like Kardashians or not it's not like that's a personal thing like or write say Angry Birds or whatnot so this is something that now each individual can basically you know relate to but generally they're all having the same

base of the you know branding stamping sort of thing so it's about story as well I mean I think the story is very important when it comes to these emotional attachments to whatever it is it is a good attachment to it or bad like as I said but this is really interesting is in the sense of like saying you we talk about neurons here we talked about kind of pathways or shortcuts but actually what you're talking about it with narrative I think is is it even if you think of it even more tremely important and when it comes to branding and something like that's why for example I used to work out as well in this sort of thing so that's why I'm so basically that's why you know slogans and this sort of having like a one-sentence pitch that you're just gonna you know like just do it those that's that's what is even that that's the story as well because that just three words together in the right time right place is gonna tell so much about the actual command so forth it's it is the whole philosophy behind but how when it comes to moments they are very

recognized not just a national brand here in Finland which are basically a cultural heritage but worldwide and actually up through last year they were in top ten brands now they're in top four which is insane I mean to be honest drop sanely yeah yeah it you know even in China it's just good so basically our approach is when it comes to gaming now is a bit different than when it comes to someone who has own IP because basically we already have if the market is already there the fan base the community is already there so basically the thing is that we really have to like explore what their expectations are and what their demand is in order to provide in a sense of course we as a game developers we have freedom to do you know game design and all that and thankfully I mean that's that's the whole idea I mean because moving brand and moment

characters is the company that owns the brand right so we work very closely with them and they also want to you know be you know up the top like what's happening out there now and what actually will sell the best and that's where we come in to make the games that would be because it's not enough to have you know like any game or something fastly done and just slap the brand on top of it it's yeah it will give the downloads first but it's not gonna keep the players that's why you need to have a good game design good stuff not so basically how we design it in our studio is that literally use you know like blocks like the coder graphics I mean you should see those first coder graphics that's basically the same game can work just and we would play it and we would get hooked on it and then we put you know of course the story is one thing especially if we with move means we have to let's say if we move in under sail is based on the comic by two variants a moment under sail that's the name so basically we have to

dare follow the story and that helps us a lot in the game design but all in all the game mechanics and everything has to be so so much fun on their own that we can slap whatever on top and it's gonna be fine like so was the game that has to stand up and I kind of wondering about the contrast between what you're talking about while we know would happen with with it black you were describing earlier with this kind of new game is that you're trying to think about the game being first but as a result of that process at what point do you realize whether this this identity this kind of this characters art whatever 2-tone or the things that that case was talking about earlier in terms of the environment how they they start resonating and when does that start turning into a conversation we think about the audience so if I understood the question correct at what point of game success it becomes some brands I was actually during the development actually when you think Owen or or does it not happen until after four you know I mean it's raised well

definitely we think about how we will market the game while we develop it but to be honest we don't think that much about like how we will grow it into global brand and stuff like that before the game is actually are being released and well-received and become successful because well it's an indie panel so I think it's also something probably the only route that indie can take I mean zip flap is probably not it's like it's hard to call our in this anymore that we independent and stuff but in this usually have a very limited resources so my advice would be don't spend those resources don't spend time don't spend money on you know planning as expansion of your brand and like vines easy our doors Edwards meant before your game because it says I'm going to challenge that because I think you do

but not in terms of the spending the money bit I think what I'm particular you guys but what a lot success event is do instinctively is think about the integrity of the visual style yeah how that works is they have mentioned like sing about making the great characters great visual style catch a name and stuff like this because they they they are the part of the brand already but I mean making a successful game especially today in a free-to-play market is super challenging games that would require all your resources all your thoughts all your time so don't make it even more complicated for yourselves really because having a brand and an OK game having a great game and ok brand well it's a good enough I mean you you will get money to continue to survive at the company and continue making new games

and coming out with a well successful brand and future so I think it's a game of process but I do wonder I mean basically like you say the complication ago feel free to play I think what ends up happening for a lot of people is simplification and I wonder whether that simplification process amongst its mission a small team where they've got good strong a vision in in a wider sense of what the whole of the game feels like I think when you get those teams working in their best and they're simplifying effectively you're distilling the values of what that game is about well of course when I say likes a complicated game I don't mean that it has like lots of features and stuff it's more about like the technical side and there's no bringing it to market side and those are the things we're hearing here is I you know a lot of it is just don't have the time to think about the kind of long-term consequences of some of their brand decisions because they're just focusing on making sure this game works

and actually can get it out the door and be good enough to be able to get some attention but of course we you know the key thesis that you kind of presented earlier is actually one here wonders don't create this is kind of like this sucker yeah it's newer all kind of pathway that we're talking about this positive reinforcement we've been talking about yeah I mean I mean obviously obviously no marketing can save a bad game I mean that's that's a fact but at the same time I feel like the brand thinking should already be there in the design process of the game itself I mean branding I think has a bad bit of a bad rap in terms of you know we think about McDonald's or like hmm it also sounds like magic she said someone's magically pulled something together no I mean the question is that like branding in general should ask is why would anyone play this like why what is the reason that drives people to our thing whatever

it is and I feel like you have to have some sort of a deeper story and a mission I mean it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be like super complicated or like fake I'm saying that if you actually tell people the passion that you have why you started making the game in the first place that's something that people can actually relate to and sometimes I feel like game developers tend to forget that when they actually focus on doing the game which is also like of course crucially important but at the same time I would say like there are things that you can actually do without spending a lot of money in terms of brand thinking in general and you can do PR you can you can focus on in the game design process telling your story I mean it's a global world nowadays and and you can tell your stories in

multiple different ways within the digital world and you don't have to be tacky or you don't you don't have to opposite you kind of have to be authentic very Indian I mean there's the stuff that you know when you see cut the road you know exactly what's going on and you intrinsically understand emotionally how you connect with that gameplay mechanic and you connect with the character and you connect with the the way the unboxing happens yeah that's part of making good game Oh true and I think that's really kind of what we're trying to get to which is I mean I don't know how many of you ever did anyone pitched for the big indie pitch before anyone done that yeah do you know the most common feedback we give people what's your USP what's your unique selling point and I think that's really kind of at the end of the day the heart of it's at the heart of what we're saying with breath yes it's been a distill what about USP is so how does this sue we got this kind of spectrum obviously we how does it actually know I'm thinking about here we've got his accent called kind of aspect what I'm really saying is I don't

think is accidental with the right team making these guys I just don't understand that that is the same thing as making a brand but you're obviously coming for the point where you do understand what making your brand is I'm not saying you don't so much but you are coming from that point of view where the brand is already front and center and also well I also have lots of experience with it in the development although snowfall is far from Indy let's face it like come on we have investment we have big brand and we are about to announce the publisher so it's like what what is in the about us except that we are small and we want to keep small but that's a different business strategy however I mean small team sorry so so when it comes to marketing there is a really big difference when it comes to Indy marketing the approaches and something when you work with the big brand I mean or how you because with your own IP you you build it along the

way like it and story is extremely important of your team of the company itself of team members of it I mean you can use every trick in the sleeve when it comes to that and that's the whole part of the you know like also branding around the game as well because those are the guys who actually made the game when it comes to the brand I or IP that is already successful and now we are representing it well first of all every single move we do or want to do it has to be approved by the brand holders and which is not an issue but just something to have in mind because of the legal part and everything else so we have to because we represent that brand out there anything you do has a knock-on consequence exactly and that is really well for some developers I can see that is a big frustration thankfully my wealth part of my doctorate is licensing and copyright so it's kind of okay for me to deal with it so so that's not an

issue but it every single like literally every bigger butts a Facebook post has to be approved not mentioning anything else so yeah we have let's say there is a fan base as I said there is a whole thing but then we have to also bring some novelty to it which is still in the same culture of the Moomin brand so I just see that as challenging not a problematic at all but but it does it's not easy because you really have to there is so much responsibility so much expectations from the brand owner from the audience and so far because brand itself is hoping there's a big demand for the games out there that's why they need a basically a game company that would be dedicated to their brand and they also have other IPs as IP holders so we are going to work with other IPs as well as a snowfall so not just moment moments are our like first let's just say so that's something that in the in the when it comes to

going out there and and making the games because other games so far we're basically kind of trying to be one you know one time hip sort of thingy that basically you have a some so-called easy game mechanics that you can just you know put moment characters on the top and oh it's gonna sell like just every single fan you know it didn't sell at all these moment games out there are really crap pardon my french but they are really bad games and that was the problem to actually like get the people to to stay with it yeah so I when I'm not working for unity I'm making a game based on the Rocky Horror Show and one thing I found is you've got this challenge to try to understand the audience and finding a way you make a game mechanic that actually works with the brand exactly because I can give you very little I mean I would just give few examples what we as developers have to work with and what our game designer has to work with

which is here in the audience so if someone wants to talk to pet their schools just get to him so basically for example Moomins cannot die they cannot be hurt nothing bad can happen really I mean there are little quarrels between them but other than there is nothing really bad so make a game around that second thing they they can't talk to the player anyhow there can't be this fourth wall breakage of any sort there can't be two same characters on the spot like let's say you can't have multiplayer or something like that way there would be two moving Pecos on the spot but yet we are making multiplayer so haha and also like as I said like they can't die they can't do this and that everything has to be like their movements and everything has to go within the actually how they are described basically in the in the you know Brad description and and rules and on the top of that one more thing would

be for example they can't you can't put words in their mouths so they can only say things which are in the comics books whatever to were made originally so yeah make a game where you can't put anything that they actually say outside of the of the story if you follow that story again these are the challenges so that it's not impossible that's design constraint yeah but I wanted to do is say that further look at it kind of when you don't have someone else policing that brand is that life easier for you or does it actually become harder because you've got to make the constraints to continue that brand no I think it's easier okay I mean we we experiment Iran's is a brand quite a lot and I had experience working with external brand in previous companies I worked in and I

know that can be it can be quite a struggle so of course it's you like we're in a better position well when we make decisions inside the company but it's do you know challenge because at the end of the day you've made some decisions about what that brand looks like feels a responsibility if we buy decisions there is no one to blame except ourselves yes another today you know you've got if you're gonna make me new games in that with that character or are you gonna make new levels or something so forth if they don't have some continuity and how do you police that continuity so that's really the questions how do you police the continuity common sense mostly I mean this is the question I really it comes down to which is how do we know when we've got a one-hit wonder or when we've got a brand and is it fixable you know I mean what's how do we know what the difference is what do you think well I don't think there's like one cure for this answer for this question but I

would say that of course there are certain specifics that's you know make up a good brand and a success obviously with with the gaming gaming industry it's having a really good game that people can emotionally engage to I think the biggest thing is actually the emotions that it brings whether it's you know funny it's in some way like worki for example with Angry Birds or whether it's really addictive within the gameplay itself or whether it has awesome characters like Pokemon that you can collect or something that the people can relate to and actually they can their story is intertwined with the brand itself and I think that's you know it's it's the same kind of an all entertainment to be honest I mean what makes a really successful artist what makes a really successful TV show like

Game of Thrones or or stranger things you know it's it's initially the feeling of being involved as a person in in there in a way that's meaningful and and if you can't have that experience in the game if it's just generic the whole experience of playing and as well as the marketing or how you like present yourself then I mean you have at least a really less less of a chance to succeed if you don't it sounds like what we're basically saying is that it's about focusing on the emotional response yes yeah and it's realizing at the end of the day a brand is a shortcut to help people connect with what otherwise would be a you know just an ambiguous process I mean I mean think about Apple I mean Apple is always like this big example with when you think of branding I mean it's just a you

know expensive computer Mac but at the same time they've done their branding and they're like target audience really well they have actually figured out the why people want to identify themselves with the brand so initially it's about building yourself your own brand with with the brand that you have and you want to connect to these people who you want to you know have it in the game itself and I mean you know if you think about apples think different campaign if you think they're target audiences you know let's stitch all of the other ones and let's focus on the creative people who you know we want to have the best computers for and you know making this you know rebels and misfits and making all of this kind of you know story line around that I think you know that's a really good example of how we should also consider making the story lines around games and making them meaningful to the player and answer the people that

was a robust game to social identity theory at that point find oneself by playing something I'm as a as a gamer so yeah that is the thing like you you like the games you play basically identify you in a sense as well when it comes to moments just to add to this definitely having this sort of image because what we want to do in our games is that we really want player to get especially those who are moving fans to get into the moving universe and really experience all of that including even arv our stuff in the future so there will be all sorts of things that people can actually do with them so associate themselves immerse themselves with that nostalgia or whatever else that emotion might be exactly yes so we're coming up running out of time so unless there was got questions which case put your hands up and shout I'll come to you but what's the one piece of advice you'd give someone looking at a game how would they how should they think about it to realize what the brand potential of that game

what do you think I know it's a tough one and you you say just we have one minute left I mean serious exactly just just one like wow what I don't know one piece of advice don't loan don't only trust yourself also like listen listen to your players listen to the story and think about the emotions and your own passions and why you're doing your what you're doing basically and make it into a like a nice story the people can relate to I'm sorry about being a bit of rebellious here but my advice is focus on the game make it as great as possible make sure it has great memorable characters make sure it has all like the secret name and stuff like that make sure that you keep IP because some publishers would try to tell take it from you if you'll go with publishers and once you have successful

game then build on their success and create a create a brand out of it one more just for me basically agree with both but depends on what you do like is it your own IP and brand or or you're working on well external IP either way focus on the game the game the quality of game is essential again the brand and all that definitely has to go hand-in-hand but at the end of the day no matter how pretty graphics there are or how big brand you have already working with if the game sucks no one is gonna play it focus on the game so who said it but the the classic line is it's the game play stupid and that kind of works but what I would say is what is the game play stupid that does not mean that you should ignore the player brand emotional response and you think of that as a constraint and that will help you get a lot further and on that note I'm

gonna thank analysts removal today's home thank you [Applause] [Music] [Music]