LIVE | Steam Deck, Blockchain & NFTS Discussed by Game Devs

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what's up everybody welcome to another episode of game dev unchained the number one game development podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof i am your host brandon pham and with me ray graham how you doing ray hey what's happening what's going on man it's been a while oh yeah you know i'm here it's been it's been a minute i've seen this this raggedy ryu looking shirt you're wearing like i don't know what's going on with this thing oh i have an undershirt today feeling kind of clutch but flashing but uh if you haven't read the title we this is a round table news episode where we kind of hit up uh the biggest topics of the last month so let's get right to it guys [Music] as always these are those of our own please do not try to get us fired

uh i can't i'm untouchable and ray is almost there so uh let's talk about it man so there's a lot of things that came up this past uh month and the biggest at least for me i know like there's a good amount of factors that uh you don't care as much but um let me kind of get this going wow while we do this uh let's talk about you first all right so at first there was a huge amount of hype at least from this side that i liked about the steam deck right so the steam deck came out to select a few there's a lot of back orders they're still kind of catching up with hardware but overall i think reviews are out there's a lot of hands-on from news outlets from journalists that are delightfully and maybe surprisingly

liking what they're seeing so what are your thoughts man it's interesting because they have people saying that like they're like oh a lot of the reviews are good a lot of the reviews are good and then i see a review the title from the verge and the title is the steam deck is a glorious mess right and and um and of course you know they talk about all the good things about it and what makes it great you know portable pc gaming is here right um but also talk about all of the bad things which is like you know it is it's emulating most of the games and a lot of [Music] the vast majority of them right and a lot of them just don't work a lot of the ones that you would want to play don't work and and then um games that say only support mouse and keyboard you have to go through all sorts of fiddly setting up the controllers and the touch pads and and that level of that level of

customization is cool but like i mean it's just it's just turning it into a fiddly piece of hardware that i don't like i'll just repeat what i said way back i don't know who this is for maybe it's for the the steam hardcore that want to play games on the portable devices and they will take the time to set up custom controls for a keyboard and mouse game that will work to make sure that it works nicely on on a steam deck in this emulated fashion but nah man i i just can't i just i just don't see people doing that as any sort of large numbers you know what i mean yeah i mean i think it's a slow grind i i don't think it's like one of those uh i said this before it's not one of those switch moments where suddenly everyone's adopting it uh i i do think it's a pc hardcore audience first and uh at least the reception has been kind of positive uh at least from that crowd it um

the one thing that i think we agreed on day one is that it has the most comprehensive uh library day one launch right we're talking about your whole steam library uh that is available to you let's let's say it properly right okay um it's not your whole steam library okay and nobody knows exactly what percentage of your steam library works it's up to you to do to realize that right and then when you play a game that does isn't supported you're gonna it's gonna you're gonna feel it right you're gonna be like oh let me pop in and let me play destiny oh wait that doesn't work right so it's not your whole entire steam library is available to you it's what it's what currently works in through the emulation right yeah there's a there's a good number of factors sure i mean nobody but that's my that's my point right is is it is a weird launch it's kind of like an early

i don't believe that's good for the customers i i i don't believe that's good for the customers i like some people may be able and like especially just a hardcore pc crowd maybe they could look past a lot of this stuff right but it's definitely not something that i would want to sell to every customer that's out there like you'll get so many complaints this game doesn't work this game doesn't work and you can't say well you know it's a linux machine that's why it doesn't work like people are not trying to hear that like a lot of people are not trying to hear that they just want the thing to work you know and because it's a uneven experience like i just don't know if that's the thing to be supporting you know what i mean yeah i i it's a weird hardware launch because it's not quite a launch not everyone has uh you know i i i uh i reserve mine but i have yet to kind of get a solid date of when i'm gonna get it it just keeps being pushed back it seems to be an early beta type of

release right not a lot of people um have access currently and not knowing really if by the end of the year that people that pre-order will get them so it's kind of in this static stage of i can only equate it to early beta release right so with that means a lot of the library like you said is unavailable and that's kind of okay uh in this little phase that that's in some of them well some of them will never be available right like i and the developers have said that like you know you're not ever going to be able to play you know fortnite or or destiny on the steam deck as of right now right right um so like maybe that will change right but there's no there's no there's no timing there's no time in sight where we we know okay now the whole entire steam library is going to work on this thing

yeah i mean it is it is what it is man it it is what it is it definitely is i would say that at least the reception i was kind of surprised that even with me kind of being excited over it i was kind of surprised that um it wasn't dead on arrival right even though there are some questions about where it's at and you know um and everything overall oh my god i think he's starting off this is part of it being live guys uh my apologies um but part of what is exciting about this whole thing is that because that it's kind of early access because yeah there's a lot of stuff about it that people are kind of willing to wait on except for ray right um i think the potential of it outweighs a lot of those shortcomings because it's not like people are being

delivered bricks at their doorstep right it does work the software part is just a third-party issue where not everyone has signed off on it so of course they don't permissions about it yeah with consoles content is king like with these the devices the contents king the content that you can play and if people get value out of it that's what's going to tell the story um is is it dead on arrival like nobody knows if it's dead on arrival yet quite frankly and valve can lose money on this no problem right you know what i mean and wait and see how it turns out right um so like so i don't think we know right but this this is yeah like if you tell me it's a better it's a better um nokia engage or it's a better nvidia shield yeah okay cool i guess you know i mean right but um but like i i don't see [Music] the crowd that is targeting saying oh i need to have this thing to play my pc games on on the on the go

right like as as a matter of everyday life to the point where this becomes like a big thing um i just don't see it especially when it's a piece the pc market is full of people with big ass monitors and like 30 90 ti's all sorts of nonsense and they're in their rigs right running games at 4k native at 120 hertz right like yeah you're gonna have a a a lesser experience than that and it's portable and that's that's where the value comes from but a lot of that crowd is just really hardcore right and and most of the people i know that are hyped about it um about the uh steam deck like they're hyped about it but then they're not gonna buy it i you have yours pre-ordered right but still they're they're hyped they say oh there's so much so much potential here i could game on the go and i'm like well you're not gaming on the go with the switch right now yeah and and like and the switch has in my honest opinion of all the games that are on pc that i love so much right you know nintendo's catalog on the

switch stomps all of those games right so you know you just buy a switch and play on the go and have a blast playing some really well designed games that are made for that device um but steam deck you're playing some games that you're gonna have to go and fiddle with in such settings and maybe that's what that's another thing that's one of his powers but that's that's only for the super hardcore be the who will tolerate setting up all this things settings and throttling the gpu the save on the battery and all that nonsense like no yeah no no i don't i don't think it's as bad as you're putting it man you're like yeah the worst case scenario right now read the bridges review bro it's right there yeah so you're saying overall it's a more negative result i would say that it definitely calls out some of the good things right but all the bad things that calls out are all the reasons why i'm like nah i don't know i don't know who this thing's for right and it's and i think it's all the

it's all the things that i think valve is like yeah we can live with that that's fine right and i'm like i don't know i don't know if that's fine this is but that's just might be so what are you foreseeing here that if uh if this continues right do you think it's eventually gonna fizzle out or do you think valve is using this data to create kind of some software updates is it are all these things software updates uh fixable like cyberpunk it might be it might it might sound no man's sky and it's been a steam box steam box oh my god yeah that brings back memories yeah what happened to it i was talking about this with a friend right and he was like down those knows what they're doing and i'm like what what are you talking about like the steam the steam controller the steam the steam boxes like i they don't knock it out of the park every single time you know what i mean um

they they do make mistakes and they do you know this thing might not sell like and and i don't see enough people clamoring for it to say that they're they have steam boxes on pre-order to a point where i'm thinking that this thing's gonna reach anywhere near the king of portable gaming yeah you know nintendo numbers right damn near every person on the globe has some sort of nintendo handover that's what you're competing against or you just say nah we're not competing against that we're making a portable pc like what you know like i just i just who's this for i don't i don't get it there is a distinction between this the the switch and and this though right it's a portable i decided it was it's a portable it's a there's a lot of games that isn't available on switch i understand that the pc has a lot of games that switch doesn't have right but like like i said and it's arguable people can argue with me on this

all day if they want yeah but but when nintendo reaches games those are the best games ever made yeah nintendo in terms of they're like the playstation for nintendo playstation nintendo have the strongest first party nintendo is number one those games are made to use the hardware that they're built on specifically so you're saying nintendo has already have already well let's just compare the two companies right valve versus nintendo because that's an interesting comparison i don't think a lot of people have made right uh switch switch and steam no just in general the two companies right valve and nintendo i don't know who's worth more it has to be valve right in terms of company worth all right like it's probably that was private right it's a private company right is it nintendo private no no no but uh it's a public company

but they're but they're pretty their worth is only like 60 billion or something right it's like activision no more than that let's look this up well i mean i don't know but if if you think that was worth more than 60 billion you get that really i don't know man gabe is super happy and uh those guys never release games and uh i feel like they've been like that since early 2000s like i just feel nintendo's working way harder than valve and nintendo is 7.46 trillion yen what is that right now japanese yen to usd let's see where it says that is 64 billion oh hit it right in it all right so you don't think valve is worth as much as activision and nintendo basically i would be surprised

i gotta look this up i'm too curious i guess that's all private we don't know valve was valued at 10 billion in 2018. that's three years ago and yeah that was probably at its height but yeah yeah dude yeah 60 60 billion is quite far all right 60 there all right nintendo is worth more and i guess i thought because of valve having its uh marketplace it it kind of shoots up there in terms of value but i guess it's uh it's good enough for just 200 employees right nothing special i mean yeah it's a small company and and 10 billion that's it yeah that's a lot of money dude that's somebody a lot of money well for over sure it's a lot of money but i just feel like if you own like a piece of every game ever made since the early 2000s like what 30 percent take that's got to be i thought that was more i i honestly thought that was more yeah i mean but that's speculation right that's not

even really focused on all that kind of stuff it's estimation so but anyway my point is my point is is like like when it comes to quality of games nintendo has that down i feel right so if you want to play games yeah and yes you can play control on the nintendo switch i know you could play witcher on the on the nintendo switch though yeah how old is which oh my god um that's the problem dude you're naming like four year old games there's still a huge hunger uh for for these high-end pc games huge is a huge hunger really though is it i think there is more and more people even with remote i feel like it's a drag sitting in front of your computer to play games it is right unless it's a multiplayer shooter people still like not for everybody portability kids you can set it up where you you have you

have your pc hooked up to your family room tv you do all sorts of things to get around that is such a small niche group of people that can do the same i'm just saying right but also i don't think a lot of pc gamers are like oh no i hate sitting in front of my pc they're pc gamers of course they love sitting for their pc that's why they got these gaming chairs and that's why secret lab making all this money right like i mean they love saying for their pc most hardcore pc gamers guess i'm getting older man here's the thing man with remote working i hate sitting in my chair too long it's like i work during the day and i want to play some games i want to change a scenery man if i want to play outside that'll be great that that's to me that's what makes the switch so accessible and so appealing it it it moves you away from your standard tv and chair scenario and yeah there's a good portion of games that is uh that is unable to do that

because of the restrictions of the the hardware right so steam is the only thing to me so far that offers that yeah we can argue about game pass still though it's not quite the same because it's you're renting and uh i don't know have you have a chance to play with game pass you know on your phone oh not on my phone i i tried it on um i tried it on my like stream like you talked about xstacks cloud part the streaming part right yeah yeah yeah so i i tried it on have i tried on my phone i think i tried one game on my phone yes and i also tried it on on a web browser and it's it's it's it's pretty decent right like on the phone it's a little bit a little bit a little sketchy right because i think um you really want like a bluetooth controller on your phone yeah but you can play touchscreen but if you're right i'm not even but i'm like why are you playing touchscreen

i can't do that no but yeah so i think on phone you really do need the bluetooth controller and that's when it kind of falls apart because you're like am i really going to carry a whole bluetooth controller and my phone with me everywhere i go uh so having the controller and the screen and everything one form factor makes a big difference um but yeah like like that part of it i think xcloud has way more opportunity yeah because the initial la money is less a lot of people got phones that are capable of streaming this stuff you know like there's a lot of potential there other than the control issue that you have to get around yeah well i am reserving to pass judgment i'm just not quite there yet uh to to kind of give my full review i am looking overall i guess i'm leaning towards more of the positive views of people saying this is answering all my gaming needs on

portability right yeah these are non-switch games that we are liking yeah i see a lot of reviews saying they can't wait to kind of see what else they do with it but there are a lot of all the people that got early copies yeah and are getting paid the right reviews i've all said really good things about it cool no i'm just i'm just checking i'm just checking i hope i hope i just i wonder how many how many of your listeners and people that follow your your podcast are like all about actually got reservations for it yeah i'm interested in how many people just randomly on the street that i walk up to would be like oh yeah i'm all about it like i'm really curious about that i think more people are waiting to be on the second to third wave of of receiving and ordering receiving it people are waiting and seeing i think it is one of those things that you just have to see someone with it outside to uh actually virtually line up to get one

it is a hard sell outside of the niche group such as myself um yeah because you know what i'm gonna do right away i'm gonna be like oh my steam library let me play my most played game ever on steam let me load up sip six yeah i think for me i have so many games in my library that yeah i do have like this weird need to distance myself from the computer after i work right i just can't sit and you know i'm playing through limbo right now right that's how far back my playing library that's way far back let's wait for our back how how i am i'm kind of going this platforming stage right now and uh and i can't wait to be able just to not sit in front of my computer right um i mean like like i said there's a there's a good number of games all these epic games that i'm getting for free there's a ton of games that are playable on controller

that are lightweight enough that they'll be fine and they're also they have console versions that people play on consoles all the time there's a lot of those games and maybe people will enjoy that right um but i'm just like there will be edges that people are going to hit up against and be like oh what is this like this is not working right and that's where i'm like i don't know man and then some people are gonna say well what do you expect valve to do right because it's like they can't make or they don't want to make a windows box because of all the windows licensing fees and all that kind of stuff right um so they can't run these games natively they have to emulate them um and i'm like well like a way that some like what they did with steambox was like you got to make your stuff for linux right and everybody was like well we ain't doing that right because yeah because because then you have now you have to convince developers to to uh support support this platform yeah i would say that's the and you can target

steve deck directly and you can make the linux game directly and tailor it for steam deck right but who's going to do that when there's not there's no users that have it yet yeah i would say the biggest valve misstep where they got to trigger happy was when they reacted to windows kind of going through what was it like it was a trigger effect right it was they were worried about windows kind of charging everybody go through the windows store or something right yeah it was when windows started like requiring apps to be signed and moving away from the open open ecosystem that the pc has always been forever right and if i was like this is unacceptable you know we need to ensure their survival and keep it open source but i feel like it was just a too quick of reaction they could have they should have stepped back since then uh when windows didn't go that way right well windows went that way for a while and you know microsoft was kind of like yeah yeah our bad sorry about that like

we're we were tripping sorry we're tripping right kind of stepping back well yeah and i feel like valve should have followed because as a business it is really hampering like you said developers developing for their hardware i mean they're they're really seriously doing hardware now we've seen it with their um vr set right we're seeing it now with their uh valve steam deck right and like you said it's it's preventing growth and uh and i do hate the fact that i have to do some kind of boot leg of windows to play my epic game store games that i have which you know that library is growing right i just want to have a windows ability portable laptop right so i don't want to go indirect way of doing it i don't want to run into issues so this is where pc thinking

is really bad right pc thinking is like oh you can run like a million programs to kind of make it work but it won't work out of the box and that is a huge like you said blocker for a lot of regular consumers to pick up a system and just enjoy the games they have if if you're you're selling it as if it's a portable console and portable consoles you pick them up and they work yeah and everything i try on it works right and i have a great experience because it's an ecosystem of the platform with this whole thing right but if you give me a portable pc with all of its intricacies of issues dc gaming right then it's only that market you're selling to right my hopes is because it's such a good piece of hardware that it's a software problem that they'll tesla it up and just provide an update that kind of ties this all you know this whole thing like i mean software yeah software is always going to improve and there might

even be another person that's teamed up down the line right but yeah i don't know man i think like just out the box as soon as you're like we're gonna emulate and then we're gonna put tags on games to say which games run great on steam deck and also like from the review too some of the games that are marked as run great on steam deck do not run into great steam deck right so so uh and you have like valve games running great on you have to turn yeah you have to turn knobs right so but as soon as you have that you're already admitting you're like look like we can't fix it all and we're just gonna let you know which games run and which ones don't and you're just gonna have to live with that and um so you're betting against valve being able to fix this issue like they're gonna make peace i mean they are definitely not as strong as they used to be i think if it was like maybe eight ten years ago when they were on top of the world they would have this power to go to look at their party publisher to kind of influence

their decision to kind of no that's inherent there's just inherent issues with emulation right and yeah you can make them later better over time and fix some of those issues kind of like how microsoft did with uh xbox uh backwards compat right xbox 360 backwards compatibility yeah they had a list these games are backwards compatible and then a few months later they have another list more and over time they kept adding more games to that list right yes because they're all running through emulation and some games never made it onto that list yeah right because it the relationship didn't work in those cases or they didn't have time to get around to it or it wasn't a popular enough game to get around to it yeah right and so and if you are one of those people now on steam deck and there's one game that you love to play you want to put yeah i can't wait to play this portable and it doesn't work and so the reason why you bought a steam deck is to play out one game that doesn't work that's a bad experience for you even though 80 70 whatever the percentages of games on the scene library are playable on it

right all you need is one person to have one bad experience for it to be a bad experience yeah you know what i mean ah well mine's coming let me know man let me know and if you get it and you're like yo it's the greatest thing since sliced bread i you know you're completely wrong i mean yo that's that's good for you well i'm tactical so i i have no issue of turning this laptop you know and make it work for me right i mean right you know we have a mutual friend he turned his psp into like this crazy emulator and it still works to this day right and uh i i hope that valve is able to do the market research on the psp and why it didn't work even though it was a way stronger piece of hardware even to this day it's pretty damn powerful right um and figure out why and and and and how they can make their

theirs better so it doesn't fall in the same issues yeah well let's look at this man so uh on from the steam deck i think at some point we'll uh come back to it at least by then i'll have one hopefully uh and we can talk about more but the last month alone uh you know dice 22 22 happened and on top of everybody's mind and leading up to that point it was all about blockchain and nft right so before you groan before you shut this podcast episode off right i am actually very surprised to a certain degree how people are so turned off by this subject right away right um why are you surprised i'm surprised because it's just a piece of technology right that is being evaluated right now right is it well here's the news article that i

pulled up right kind of transitioning from valve in their steam deck gabe noel obviously has uh his thoughts about it right and he he probably worded it the best where he he thinks that it's not the technology per se that is the issue here it's the people behind it the the bad actors who are using it that doesn't have the people or consumer best interests at heart right so that to me is the crux of the problem so i want to at least illustrate that you know there's a difference there and when i'm i'm not there yet and i keep repeating this i'm not yet to make up my mind that this is this technology is bad for everyone this is the worst thing that ever happened since like loot boxes or loot crates right uh it's obviously being adopted everywhere else you know people out there celebrities are making

right maybe it's part of a marketing ploy right obviously it's being pushed by people who has the money right now whoever uh who has all the best interest to make it work so they're throwing everything at it to get it um to be popular but there's legitimately you know a lot of developers that i know that are cashing in as well you know making little images little artwork i mean the biggest one was that one guy who sold it for like 60 million dollars right who kind of set off this this trend i forgot what his name is but i'll look it up um the first artist that kind of did his digital artwork uh like a montage or something uh mosaic montage uh i haven't really talked to you about this so i want to kind of hear your side because these are not exactly your people right but they're but i i imagine it is a bunch of engineers and and programmers putting this thing together to make it work

right it's definitely not artists pushing this technology so what are your thoughts about this because i i i i don't think i ever talked to you about this and and this is a big thing yes i'm actually like i'm actually torn on it okay right um because one way one on one side i see the notion of how the blockchain um can help artists um track providence of artwork right so if you say like say actual physical art his whole process of providence who owned it and keep track of that so that you could you can know whether it's a legit piece of art yeah right and so you could track the owners and and know that it is from this set of artwork and all that kind of stuff so there's there's a whole notion of that and that's what makes it a unique piece of art right or it limits the amount of art right so

there's so there's that whole discussion right um i think like sitting at home come up with like a bunch of different images and how to combine them in programmatic ways to make them unique and and make some of them less more rare than others in a fake way and then putting it up on a website and then selling it and then people buying it and then speculating that it's gonna go up in value just because there's scarce amounts of it and the only purpose of it ever is to just exist digitally and go up in value there's debate about whether that's useful for anybody now it's it's probably it's probably useful for the people that are about the art and making millions of dollars off of just offering something that people are going to speculate on yeah and it's useful for for the first people in into the pyramid

who will will like speculate up the prices and then and then dump when when the time is right and it's not so useful if you are at the end of that right or if you or if the whole thing's a scam and there's no regulation and somebody goes just disappears with all the money and and you have nothing right yeah so like there's a lot there's a lot of issues with bad actors and people speculating that make it something that's like really really sketchy right and of course video game companies seeing it and wanting to integrate into their games and things like that they're not sitting there saying to themselves what is the thing we could offer our users that'll make them you know continue playing our game that will be value to our users they're looking at how can we extract money from our customers how can we gain revenue right i know some people that are trying to pitch their games right now they're not doing nft or blockchain or anything like

that and they're like man it's really hard to sell a game right now but if i tell them it's an nft game i'll get funding in two seconds right that tells you it's about the money right and then like this and not even talk about blockchain and it's um especially even with ethereum which is what most nfts are based on the ethereum network right um the environmental impact the energies right to just track provenance it seems like a very wasteful way of doing that right because it's a huge amount of energy spent to do this right and some people who are like nft experts would be like but there's a different way that people are researching to do it that will make it less energy intensive yeah that'll be cool when that's like more widespread but it isn't right now right um and so so like those are reasons why people are

really pushing against it because like for sure if you're seeing it in a in the video game context you've seen square enix ubisoft pushing it you know for sure ubisoft is pushing it it's about money in any about their users and that's where you're seeing the pushback yeah i will say this right um the fallout the loot crates fiasco right uh i i blame this trend about micro transactions in on the mobile market because they do it so well right i i do think the nft blockchain tech that's going to be utilizing games the best will be a mobile game first right or well not by much it's already happening pc games like there's there's decent land there i know but i think the biggest one that we're where it becomes accepted right will be through the mobile game first right uh i i don't think it's these pc games that

they're gonna do it i mean there's gonna be little pockets of it but to see it on the grand scale of like oh this is the thing just like how customizable skins um are being released on freezie play and stuff that that to me was a positive from the loot crate fiasco right first of all we we we started way back a decade ago where it was downloadable content so it's just extra content after you buy the physical game comes out a quarter six months whatever right um that was kind of like a small snippet of that thing right and then it it transformed to what it is today which is like on fortnite you can buy special skin that doesn't affect gameplay because there was a a scenario a phase there where it was affecting gameplay and nobody liked it and we were pushing against it pretty damn hard right so to me i equate that little phase of pushback to now with this blockchain and nft right it's similar because it like

as gamers hey let me be clear right i get so much flack every time i kind of talk to people about this on the podcast or like just researching on it right they're like oh you're just you're just a pr firm for blockchain and nft is like bro i have i am the cheapest mofo when it comes to buying anything extra dude i am the default skinned dude in fortnite or anything because i refuse i grew up in the pc world where everything was free in counter-strike right where custom skins was made by this kid in a garage and you just download it and locally you change the skin like that's where i come from the modding days right so i am never about buying anything and i have yet to do it let me put that out there so i'm that guy but even then you probably i've never bought anything never bought anything i swear to god never never i play the bare minimum and

if i like the gameplay i keep playing uh her stone you never bought a pack in herself nothing i never buy any of that i play valor and all the time i don't buy any of the gun skins uh i pick it up when people die and it's cool and that's my little moment of uh you know flossing right but other than that i don't buy anything so with that i do recognize how those skins there's a lot of people that like it obviously there's a value to it right the same way i do see that little this phase that we're going through as gamers as developers we're figuring it out like you i do feel like there is value to track the original digital ownership right some people don't get it i don't collect art right maybe you do but i recognize and respect that you know there is value in original art in the physical world and so at least this

gives the same equivalent of that in the digital world which i feel like we are deep in the digital world and it's getting crazier and to the point that it'll be 50 50 uh and then eventually hit that threshold of 75 25 where people prefer to be connected all the time and visit their virtual home and hang up virtual digital artwork that they own right it's heading to that eventually right just think playstation home and then actually working well that's the thing you say as soon as you say that it's your second life picture first of all the people that basically life should be mad as hell right now because everybody everybody's trying to get another thing that they've been copying that last last 20 years right yeah and and and we thought it was dumb then yeah and we think it's dumbed down it's less

dumb now [Laughter] yeah no but somehow we're all we're all about it right and and i see some value there is some value there right but then it's nfts don't necessarily there are there is a stupid thing about this work right there i do get it right now like i don't get it and some people and some people are like oh but in the metaverse you can share assets that's an entity across different games right and i think there's been numerous threats on twitter yeah like from technical people debunking like how that doesn't really work right um like like fundamentally right there's things you could do to try to get around it if there's one central service that was all about nft game interchange and it was all using a comment file format and then different games could put in their converters into this big system right but it doesn't it doesn't exist

and there's very little incentive for for different games to even do all that work to support somebody else's content in their game right it's gonna be a while yeah so like there's a reason why the whole argument's been debunked by like professional people in the industry right and and then like you're saying something about it has to be on mobile xc infiniti is on mobile you can play actually infinity dude i got so much from axe infinity so i was talking about that from dice 2022 and like this reddit user was giving me saying like hey man you gotta do harder research because their whole economy collapsed it's like i don't think so they're still up and running uh and there's just recent report that you know there's it's a scam of some sort right and i gotta look more deeper into it but um i do know about that game uh it's done in the philippines by a group of students um maybe there is something to it saying that you know uh

it hasn't been really figured out but we're talking about first games here right you can't you can't uh conclude like the existence of the usage of this technology by one game that just came out that had some success right well i think we've talked about like we've like these games and then something of course all the leaders and the and the think piece uh people and all the people in this space are starting to start saying like you know there's a whole new gaming segment the whole playing to earn segment and i'm just like bruh that sounds like a job like like you know like gabe's games used to be fun used to be about fun now we're talking about playing the urn not to say that that's you know like you know game industry is very broad and we should allow different things in right but we're also allowing something in that like again is harmful to the environment doesn't really necessarily serve any

sort of practical purpose the technology itself doesn't provide any practical service other than speculation and and taking money from people um and there's a lot of ways to create like we've talked about already right there's a lot of ways to create scarcity in a marketplace and unique items in game worlds we've been doing it right loot boxes auction houses like these things have existed right and now we're trying we have this nft thing that we're trying to shove into games because because because of course we are right but we don't really have a real reason to oh this is a real reason other than the the speculation and all that kind of stuff right yeah i mean the speculation is a little far-fetched i mean if anyone for for anyone that that understands game development it takes a little while man it takes a little while to create these universes and make them all connected and then finally you as an avatar walk around in interconnected in

this different world i mean right now we're just at the beginning phases of of microsoft sony uh snatching up all these studios and and epic uh and somehow having these people talk to each other if if there is a reason to right you know you can't take develop a develop bb and just tell them to do something right there's going to be some maybe initial discussions for their next project right and we're talking like i said five to ten years of maybe some news about this metaverse happening right it's definitely not facebook figuring this out they are so far behind the line that you know you can't even see them in the line they're like around the corner of this line right like they don't even know how to make a game yet right so we have to start with these studios to know how to make a game uh and i don't even think that's the steps

none of what you're saying here says that we need nfds for that yes it's a deeper why here's why i'm not exactly with you on this right yeah if this has been the case for the last six months and the year and no one's touching it right however you have friends i have friends and they're making and they're selling it to people who wants it people are touching it and i have a friend as an artist he's all about it right yeah people are doing it because they are making money yes right that is the driver right it isn't about the usefulness no but some artists some artists are doing it because yeah they they really do believe in like my art is a thing i want people to own i make digital art and there was no mechanism before for me to to guarantee ownership and and decrease its value and

to create scarcity yeah there was you could just make 10 different images put it in a server give give somebody who buys it a login to download the picture right and that's their picture and if they choose and if they choose to have someone copy it or make a copy of it yeah because but you can still do that nfts entities are not uncopyable you can still copy them right you just right click save as right but then they're saying oh but it doesn't have value because it doesn't have the blockchain attached to it but it's like but it's the art right i can just right think about it the other thing is about it is i could remint it as a new nft and say it's mine now right so like color it differently yeah and then some people some real hardcore proponents would be like well yeah of course because but now it's a different thing and the blockchain will say that it's different but it's the same image you know you so you tell me the only thing of value is is the blockchain that's attached to it

yes here's the thing about art right i don't i don't own any piece of art from a login into a server this is where this is where it needs to be understood right what's the difference of owing uh owning a van gogh and having a digital version of it like a printed version of it right to me it looks the same but knowing that it's the original that's what brings it value right so to me it's that same type of feeling transfer the digital world and but the print like in the art world the physical print also has lesser value because it's not original right so it's the same thing as this nft stuff so to me it's a good equivalent right like i'm a digital artist okay so if i do like that and your art has some value and it's all digital right so we're not talking about the difference between an actual painted campus and a printed campus we're talking it's all digital art yeah and then i steal the art and i re i meant it i have now decreased the value of your original creation because now

does it though it doesn't it doesn't if it doesn't decrease the value of the physical art because there's a lot of printed version i'm just xeroxing it over and over and over right if it doesn't devalue the original art the digital version shouldn't be devalued either because it's being copied right there is there is a bragging right and traceable bragging right saying that now there is an original digital art that someone does own and you can trace it back to history there is if you are into that type of world then it should have the same there's no difference to give you a password to a server that's hosting that image okay now you're talking about kind of windows pc and and valve steam deck only a few will do that they need a third party to handle saying that i'm saying there's no difference between that right so we don't need a technology that is more energy energy intensive yeah right and we don't need to find a problem for it to solve and

that's what we're doing right right and that's that's that's i think is the problem more so it's less trendy the way you're doing it right yeah blockchain and it doesn't help and it doesn't help that a lot of the the hardcore components of blockchain are very annoying yeah and and they're people that are easy to dislike and so then people latch on to that too because there's all the speculation and the tech bro nonsense right it just yeah it's it's just has so much baggage attached to it now that whenever somebody does mention it like you're saying it's immediate like oh no that's that's that's poison right yeah i just can't i'm not there yet man it's like i just see when people talk about how there's so much people making money off it right i don't i see it both ways like well obviously someone's buying it right so there's there's a seller and a buyer involved in this transaction and the the hype is just equally

uh from both sides people have this argument all the time right you know like you can say same thing with other bad things in the world like you know people are buying it you know what i mean and um and the thing is like yeah like we're people we're gonna we're gonna do things if you were to let us do things right you know what i mean right yeah but it's a matter of do you want to be party to that or not right is it against what you believe in right it doesn't matter if people buy it or not right like i mean right now if you wanted to make money you could start selling cocaine if you wanted to right you're not going to do that you can't can write it because it says it's against yours it's against your values yeah but you're not okay you have the hurting environment sure and so i'm saying what i'm saying is is like if you are against it for whatever principles reasons you're not going to want to do it people are going to buy it sure you know people have been buying it and

some people with just too much money to spend up and buy it honestly right but like like what is the value like where is the value is where anyone believes there's value i mean that's what crypto is right i mean that's the fundamental of this whole age of digital money and digital transactions that is speculation it's all speculation but it's stained that's the funny thing man like you talking about bitcoin years ago it's this it's to me it's the dumbest thing in the world right but like people are hyped into it and it's staying it's not going away to me like the industry is big enough for these sectors to survive right like there's like user generated content games as a genre now right for a while a little big plan in minecraft was kind of a thing and now it's growing into the sector i don't think it's gonna take over right all these games that we love

but it it exists in its own little bubble in the same way these blockchain nft games i don't think it's gonna take over everything but it exists for its own crowd and i don't think it should be shunned for that um it could easily take over like especially like you see what ubisoft was doing and sometimes they want to do it it could easily become the next loot box because then it's a way of making even more money and especially like hey what if we made our own coin sure and then we can speculate get people's money for this coin you know and and like drive up the value for real money because like yo this video game thing is risky and like this thing at least we know we can get 30 40 total revenue off of this right it's it's it's and that's what and i think people see that and the developers definitely see that and we're like yeah now you guys are being greedy you're being greedy right i will say most developers under these houses are opposed to it

right but you see also a lot of indie developers who are for it right uh that are doing it and doing whatever they can to grab this money for for money reasons but they're doing it to get to get their bread yeah to get the bread so like i you know they count as developers too they're of the same group and uh i do it i'm not so worried about it because in the end i do think players and gamers get to vote with their wallets right it's not gonna be we can't be forced into something we don't like doing like if there's no support behind it no one's buying right and uh there's such a strong opposition against it and there is a good enough support around it where maybe a small niche group will continue uh doing it and then buying it but the others to me you know if you don't like it you're not

gonna be bothered by it so much i just don't understand why there's there's such a need to have a rejection for the whole thing right if you don't like it just go somewhere else and so i told you all right yeah i get it but like you get the reasons why yeah there's a lot of games i don't like right that i think are stupid right a lot of them are mobile games but i'm not standing out there with the picket uh signs saying that they should not exist if you thought that those games were fundamentally destroying humanity yeah there's a lot of things about social networks that i feel like it's destroying our brain cells but i'm not out there voting against it right i just don't participate i don't partake and it's a choice you know that i feel should be protected man if you don't want to make blockchain nft game you shouldn't if you don't want to buy blockchain nfc games you shouldn't

but i'm not going to go out there and and and basically be out there like abortion protesters right and tell you how to live your life i just don't some people would would do that abortions and they would test other things and and they would protest the harm that and if these are doing to the world like yeah they would totally and they would they would also they would also protest gambling or you know whatever right and definitely nfts are you know let's just be real that is it yeah i do feel like this stage and i agree with you blockchain like a lot of people who talk about this kind of gloss over blockchain being unhackable right it's like anything's hackable uh like how is this guaranteed right maybe i don't understand the technology enough but i feel like that does gloss over a lot of times where it's like oh if someone figure it out we just do it right that's like like i feel like i can pirate anything at this stage like what guarantees are there that this original artwork will stay original well

that's yeah that's mostly the thing about blockchain right is that nfts yeah right is that yeah maybe blockchain is a little bit more secure but with nfts the asset itself is not actually stored in the blockchain yeah the blockchain stores a link to the asset so the asset is is hosted somewhere in all cases it's hosted somewhere and so now that hosting site is is hackable okay and i can just download whatever i want up out of there once i hack it you know what i mean and so this whole notion that yeah the edits because they're back right watching they're secure like they're more secure than say an asset on the server is is false because it's literally still an asset on the server somewhere right so yeah the whole thing the whole thing is literally like some technology and then somebody was like oh i know i could i could solve this problem with this technology look how cool this is

and then and came all the scammers and the thieves and then of course in typical video game fashion we're like what if we could make money from this too you know and and that's where you're getting a lot of the pushback and hey um because a lot of people like this thing is is a it's a ponzi scheme it's corrupt it's scammy and it's not that in all cases but there's a lot of cases of that right and so then it colors people's perception of it yeah to me it's all part of this phase man this is the phase where you know you're finding what is acceptable and what's not with this i don't think it's completely gonna be gone yeah i have discussions with people about this and they're like they're like you know who likes cryptocurrency drug dealers and criminals right yeah yeah yeah because it's untraceable and all this kind of stuff and i'm like yeah yeah like i feel you like people are going to use technology

things for good or bad right um but then but then you see you know what's going on in the world right now and then people are like oh yeah like we're gonna sanction people then and they can just switch to crypto to do all of their business right and that's on trackable and it's outside of all the monetary situations right and so and then the detractors of crypto would look look at that and be like see it's getting our way around legally imposed sanctions and it's allowing for criminal activity and sketchiness to still prevail this is a bad thing to have in the world right that's the stance right and i i can't say i i'm fully on back camp but i also like when it comes to nfts and video games i just think it's useless i i just hate the fact that people just like dismiss the fact that people don't do criminal activities with regular currency right now it's like you ever heard of laundering money like it happens bad people will find bad things to do

no matter what though with crypto though that is actually the future right like with real money it's like you have to go through a lot of hoops to be laundering and doing corrupt things with your money with crypto that is like literally the future right it's like yo you cannot be traced right like this yes for now but like i mean we hear rumors of these government like finding ways to legalize it and put restrictions on and it's going to happen right and when it becomes the norm it's just they're fighting the last flight and it's getting to that point right and tax evasion a lot of taxes all this yeah it's gonna happen guys just hold on like people are just so fast to jump into conclusions about like this is a set thing and then we're not gonna be no you're part of this phase of of being against it if there are shitty things about blockchain and nft that you'll like then you are challenging the the the supporters to kind of back it up because they want in the end your acceptance right they're not going to

you know they want that other 99.9 to embrace this thing right so they're gonna do whatever they can to compromise to make it acceptable uh for as much of that percentage as they can because it helps them right they can't just be in this little circle uh jerk and just like please themselves about nfts right they need everybody even the haters especially the haters uh to kind of be behind the technology so yeah it's one of those top it's like one of the only topics in the past years where i just like accidentally cough it right immediately like this whole crowd just come at me as if i'm like uh i'm against humanitarian rights or something right i was like no i'm just asking questions man and i feel like we are at the stage where there's just an outrage against anything and nobody wants to discuss it right and i'm

just i'm always neutral until i have all my facts and that's where i want to be yeah i'm just saying like some people like i said before some people think it is a source of evil in the world yeah that's so crazy that's too much i mean obvious i'm just saying like if you believe that though then then it's it's worth having that much hatred for it right and and if every example you could point to is about getting money harming the environment sketching this in scams what good is that every everybody they'll come on man there's a lot of you you talking i'm just saying i'm just saying like a lot of you it's always what's getting reported it's always what's getting talked about you you're throwing up gabe gabe is like i'm not allowing that stuff on the steam store because he he also knows like on the steam store like steve is already a vile cesspit of of of sketchiness and scams and all

that kind of stuff as soon as you put nfts in the mix it's just gonna it's very confident of fire right so like gabe's like i want no parts of that this is more headache for me and my lawyers yeah it's unproven i mean they try to accept crypto but because of its uh volatility you know you can't build a business around it like i really do feel crypto needs some kind of regulations because you can't walk off a plane two hours later and suddenly your money is like half its value right but then that's exactly against the future of it right it's about not being tied to a central bank it's about not being regulated that's why it's a thing yeah and and uh and then as soon as you say well we need to do this so that the price stays stable that's why the speculators are there because the price isn't stable and it's highly volatile right so that they get in and ride the wave and ride the bumps and and it's going up it's going up stonks strong soldiers go up right like that's why they're there they don't want

it to be stable and cg regulation not sustainable man regulated and stable i said people are gonna dump it because it's no longer the speculative money money generator that they that they wanted it to be right well if everyone's my fear is like there are obviously advantages to these things and the get rich scheme people are are kind of ruining like i was just talking about kickstarter earlier today um how kickstarter in the last two years actually are is having kind of come back right a lot of project game projects in particular are are are getting funded more more than it used to than three years ago so it's been an uptrend right so to me like kickstarter at the beginning was kind of going through this shitty phase of scammers and then uh what's left of it are like the loyal supporters it's funny and good projects it's funny you mentioned kickstarter because you know what happened recently right what happened recently let me know

that they announced that they're doing their own their own token i know that's like that they got they got on yeah they got hammered for that right so i think big companies announcing it has ended up i have no idea but but that does seem very that seems like kickstarter is like we need to do something that will get some investors in here and they're like we need to create our own token that's it that's it right yeah they're dave and buster's token right i think it's a very bad idea for for um for big companies to kind of be behind unproven technology right now like i i do agree like this is more like a indie crowd smaller endeavor right to kind of figure this out actually you're talking about small and testing things out fail fast market fast market market cap is like 3.6 billion or something stupid which is

what is what can you reach infinity infinity that small company is already 3.6 yeah dude like so like it the amount of money that is flowing through these things is ridiculous like sandbox people are buying a virtual a lot of land next to stoop dog for 250 000 like right like it's crazy right so so it's it's not small indie let's try this out people out here making real money right like real real money and i need to catch up on the sexy infinity man why are haters hating on this so much tots one day trading volume 16.75 million crazy you know who's upset at this right the most this whole nft thing um what's that space game that you like that would be fun see that's that's okay hold on see perfect example perfect example actually

you don't need nfts star citizens out here making money regardless and they're they're selling you j scarce jpegs and and they still making a ton of money so you don't need that well here's the difference man you talking about earning 3.6 bill they only have been around in like less than a year right that's way more money than star citizen have made for the past seven years dude that's seven kickstarters dude that's the big difference dude bro don't give a quick don't give chris roberts any ideas stop it oh you'd be you'd be lying to yourself you don't think chris robertson is looking at this nft as an extra life bro he's always scheming about the next ship that he can sell that doesn't matter that's just this should tell you everything you need to know about yeah i didn't know it was that crazy man i need to look at this ecosystem more i had no idea

that that is not an indie crowd anymore man if you 3. 3 billion valuation of your company man but that's what i'm saying you're out here saying it's indiana small things like i mean we're talking about this at dice you know people are going to all these tech conferences having whole whole discussions about cryptocurrency it's no longer a small thing it's talked in same breath as metaverse you know it's not but well when i say small thing i mean more like you know teams like axe infinity right i like it needs to stay nimble because you know smaller companies obviously doing bigger things have the ability to learn fast and be uh listening uh to what's going on on a date like this is where mobile is really good right they they react on a day-to-day basis larger companies like ubisoft uh activision they're very slow

and i don't think they're the right people to kind of figure out this technology to get us where we need to be uh faster right uh and they have this bad branding when it comes to this stuff anyways uh you know they're they're evil corporations no matter how many good games do they do whatever they touch is always in the at least what we think of them in the worst intentions right like how gabe noel said like the bad actors at least with these smaller companies there's a natural sympathy to it right so to me as a big player of course i want to get in on the action but there's a lot of bad press and pushback automatically from all this i kind of wanted to sit back like how activision blizzard does with most things right to kind of prove itself and let the small guys win favors first and then step in

after it becomes more the norm right because the worst people to do it though the with the in the worst way are these big companies right the indie people i feel like yes they're getting the bread but i think they have overall more morality when it comes to this stuff they're figuring it out maybe in their best interest first but secondly you know they're trying to include their loyal supporters as much as they can because they know they need them to survive so it has to start at on the ground floor the foundation of these smaller groups to to to for this to be adopted more widely right at least that's my thoughts i i just don't see ubisoft and fortnite going at this and then suddenly it's all cool and dandy right it's so many questions like we proposed in this whole

episode i'm still unsure like i haven't heard anybody said anything where i'm like yeah this is how it works i hear stories like this like actually infinity make a bank and i was like well there's something there but what is it exactly what are they doing right and why are they still being hated on like what what are the reasons people radio that's that's why that's what yeah but it's not one-sided you know there's people buying it people like it so people are people are doing it because they're greedy man you know like this is how it is you know people it just takes one good designer to kind of figure out a way to make this fun right i i just think developers should not be straight up opposing it and say this will never work right just be a designer and figure out how it could work for the better good and be an example right and or otherwise all the bad designers are the one at the control yeah that's the shitty part about good

people it's like they sit back and let it happen i think we've been here though man like you remember you remember the the real money auction house and yeah diablo 3 and yeah all of that program about like you know we've been here yeah you know we've been done this and and uh yeah it's just it's just people have a technology and they're just trying to find out where else can they they shove it where it doesn't belong really and that's what we have all right so let me end it with this how far off do you think this is going to be laid to rest and what scenario you feel like it's going to be where it's going to exist where it's acceptable dude i i'm i'm really pessimistic and i just i i just you think it's gonna be gone a few years from now no no i'm really pessimistic where i think it will be here the i think it is here to stay as much as we're pushing against it in gaming yeah um i don't know how much more

integrated it's going to get in the gaming space because the the the pushback is really strong pretty bad yeah pretty strong um so i don't know where it's going to go there um i think a lot of the people that are saying that this is the ticket to sharing assets in a metaverse environment it's not there yet i think it's not just it's not there yet i think they're in for like all of the technology is that impossible right um without some real somebody needs to like own that problem and everybody has to agree that that is the standard that they're gonna use and so yeah good luck with that um so yeah like i i think it's here to stay i don't know like i think it might stay in in the decentraland sandbox axe infinity realm yeah i don't know i don't know how much how much bigger it's gonna get right like you saw who was who else said they're gonna do nfts oh it was uh stalker the stalker devs

they're like oh yeah we're gonna do nft in the next soccer game and then people are like oh no you're not and then they're like oh you know what our bad sorry yeah you're right we're not going to do nfds right so yeah he can't be popular yeah and they stepped way back from it um so like i i just don't see it going that route right so it might just stay in those little small games that are all about the speculation and making money yeah to me and i'll end it with this the timeline is very similar with how loot crate went about it right it took a few years for us to figure out the formula and part of loot crate is existing right now with these downloadable packs or season passes right to me those are loot crates but done in a very tactful way and it took us a while to get there i mean i hate the fact that people forget that and they say well we fought loot crates and it died it's not didn't die it just got repackaged in a way that was acceptable

and i feel they they they found the business model yeah that wouldn't have people an uproar yeah it also blue crates never never never never never were claimed to be sources of evil in the world and nfts wait what are you talking about you're saying ea never got no people hated on them but nobody said hey you're destroying the earth from from the computing technology existing nobody has said that nobody has said that your loot boxes are only for criminals to run ponzi schemes right like like nobody has said these things about loot boxes right so so so the vitro is like it's there's a little bit extra layer to it more than just hate on it yeah but i feel nowadays people are a lot more uh uh unphased with these level of threats that are happening as the day passes right it's less people are less shocked

than they were back then so when you say things like that it just like washes off me like a repellent right it's like yeah yeah i don't i'm saying like i'm saying i don't even think i'm that far on nfts i just think they're useless right but usually like some folks are literally like no this is a ponzi scheme it's preying on people yeah like it's cool if you're not you know as with all ponzi schemes it's cool if you're not the last person in right and criminals are using this and it's restoring the earth that's reason enough that we don't want any parts i'll i'll put that on the shelf as i kind of talk more and figure this out to me like not yeah i was upset back when i was a kid and i bought these chuck e cheese tokens that i don't use up and they're just useless metals that i keep in my pocket for years and years to come and they change it up right to me it's the equivalent of that these are just like they have to work if they don't then yeah you are kind of left with

a bunch of bags right once once upon a time those tokens were actually uh the same weight and size as a quarter so you could actually use it at a real arcade once upon a time and then they got hit to that and stopped doing that but yeah to me it's kind of the same so there are a lot of people discussing it listeners and viewers out there hey man i'm just trying to find how the hell xc infinity is making sense of dough and how the hell like and who are these people that are buying because i'm the first man i i draw the line between physical art and having value and actual ownership over into digital i think in the digital world it is nice to have something like that we're building up to it right we don't have it yet right it's the technology is faulty and to me i don't trust it just yet but i do like that idea right and um whatever people are doing with it

to each of their own i'm not there yet right i don't i don't find value owning owning like a gif a gif right you know that to me i don't care but i am the wrong type of audience for buying anything that you know i can't hold in my hand and and have a experience with it right so i'm not the type but i am watchful because you know part of me is being a businessman but it's not interesting to me right it's interesting to me to kind of see more of the reaction from it that's where i come from i mean you're you're an artist though right i am an artist you're a 3d artist i mean you could you could easily be like i'm going to make nft 3d art and and it's going to be i just don't know these people that buy them right so i guess one of my next journey is like who are these buyers and i want them to explain to me why they feel that's valuable

versus like you said you know i right click cut and copy i've heard a lot of the reasons why it all comes out what do you know anyone that actually buy this like i i haven't met that person yet i i know a lot of people that sells it all right and then making bang bucks from it but i haven't met a person that is collecting this and saying this is the most valuable thing i'll have for the next 10 20 years yeah i don't know if i have i know anybody directly that is buying entities directly but i know people that are proponents of it and they're like they're like why are you hating it's just like any other piece of art there's a big difference man you can talk all day behind a fence and you don't have to spend a dime right but i need to talk to that on a piece of land next to snoop dogg i don't know people that have that kind of like yeah but this is this is why i don't trust it yet right because i need to have a friend that does that because otherwise i feel like it's a bunch of

phantom investors that are just hyping up something right just to make sure that it goes through right and i feel like that people certainly are feeling that way because i talk to you and i talk to these proponents right that are supporters but they haven't bought a damn thing right so i don't know where these people exist who are these people and it is a search that i'm gonna keep going to invite them off to this podcast because i want to talk to them and maybe understanding their psychology the empathy will be there the understanding will be there why this will become a thing but because right now i do feel it is kind of schemey you know i talk to developers that have obviously uh business advantages of making this work right you know being a seller i get it i understand that psychosis but uh yeah the buyers dude i just not there

yet i'm just i can make 3d art and like you said i meant it and make it super you know original or whatever but who who is buying the infinity marketplace man and i was like i've never been on here before and it's like back seas or something for 22 pieces of land anywhere from five to seven thousand dollars you know items you could buy items for your characters you know they're but these like people doubt the metaverse and i do agree to the extent where it won't be a microsoft for sony who are buying all these companies and telling them to make to make them work together and come up with a metaverse i really do think it's something like this where it's axi infinity or among us who create a game so compelling that people want to hang out in that universe and suddenly it becomes that theme right and where they want to live

in that universe right i think that's actually how the metaverse will be and and if that's the case if that's the case the metaverse can't support your visa credit card and you could just buy everything with your with regular ass money like everybody else right like you know nfts don't really solve for that see the only nfc thing like i do go back to the playstation home if i want to hang out the digital art on my digital wall right yeah it becomes valuable then yeah i mean you can hang digital art in like i can make a better verse right now where you sign up and i give you a piece of artwork that or even i let you import your own artwork that is completely unique and you can display it in the game that's usually that's called user generated content it's called modding yeah but your art is a copy of my art which is the original and right you just xerox yours but mine says it's original therefore it's cos it's it's values

like that that argument i think is sound right there people who collect art you know they like it because it's original right there's something to be said for providence of art yes yeah our nft is the blockchain the answer to that in the digital world yeah you're not there yet do you do you own art let me end it with that do you own anything i do own rts oh valuable piece of art well it depends on the way you say valuable right but like i own pieces like other people will like to buy it from you at a good amount of money yeah i would hope like if if like you know heaven forbid when when the artist of some of the art i have passes away maybe it'll go up in value right because you would stop making art because you'd be dead right yeah and that's what i'll go up in value but also like i just i just like his art all right so you don't collect it for investment you collect it because just because you like it yeah yeah if it's worth money sometime cool you know you don't you don't own

any autograph memorabilia any of that stuff i i do some of it is autographed some of it is numbered and limited right i do have also like like toys and stuff like that that are worth a little bit more money these days than they were back in the day and when i got them yeah you know um but like stuff like that i don't think i'll ever sell it you know what i mean so like so what's the point it doesn't matter what the value is because i won't sell it right even if you can buy like another house with it you wouldn't sell it come on wait there's a number like it would there's probably a number but like it would have to be something ridiculous right yeah it's already like nft ridiculous you know i have like a an original omega supreme in the box damn um and that thing is like nothing is like online you probably get it for 300 bucks damn see you're further than me i don't own any of that i don't own anything that is of value over time so if you can't make a connection with this like that's why i have so many

questions like the difference the services those things okay and you can touch and people will say it's gonna be half the feedback in vr man people say it's the same thing it doesn't matter it's just how you feel about it and i'll be like i'll be like cool you think that that's your opinion i strangely disagree that ain't real right it's digital it's a different generation man yeah it is i'm talking i'm sounding like old man right sounding the whole guy but that's how it is kids spend their whole life on on social networks now that's their life they value things online more than they do and because of that somebody had a bright idea to say what if what if what if we attach this to this and then say it's unique like like real physical things and and that's where this came from it was tech sitting around that was solving a different problem yeah then somebody said hey let's let's solve this problem yeah i don't i don't think that's a bad thing though like it's like

we're going in circles but as a digital artist i i do like having something like that eventually that is proven and and like secure and does everything that it's promising i i like that idea right but i think we're far from it where your friend next door or your co-worker that you know actually buy these things and collect it right i'm not i'm not there yet i don't know anyone so that keeps me at arm's length with these things like it does feel scammy at this point right i don't know any buyers shouldn't we know more buyers it sounds popular shouldn't we know one buyer by this point of anything nft related i don't know anything here's the thing i think i just i'll just be honest i think we're just too old you think this is our young kids with this much money coming no i think there's i think there's a lot of young money for sure like doing buying issues yeah i think it's more of a millennial

thing i think i don't think i don't i don't know how many six-year-old dudes are are like yo i'm about to like finish this i think now maybe there might be some vc's and things like that they're all about it now because oh yeah now is the bandwagon let's get some investment in and get our money out right but um but like i don't think it's it's it's it's our generation out here just dropping money off i gotta find it i gotta find this person man uh well i mean we've gone more than an hour maybe somebody listening someone listening you know someone or you yourself is a sucker i would love to kind of bring you on and talk to you because i think the big part of understanding this is talking to that person and kind of getting their mind around honestly i don't think it's any different if you talk to people that are buying star citizenships i don't think it's any different quite frankly i think then i can talk to you i think i think one of the main ones then why did you buy star citizen and not any of this i think the only thing is like with

star citizen you know you can't necessarily get your money back out of the you can't resell it again you can't resell would that make you more interested in if you can resell all the crap that they even sold to and star citizen you're not interested it's not your world yeah i mean it's a very particular generation i'm feeling that that it's more about this anyways uh uh it's never ending man every time i talk to someone about this no one gives me a straight answer where it's hidden what's about what it needs to do to kind of get everyone talking i've had guests talk about nft who owns like a company that are uh doing this as part of the ecosystem and you know i just come out with more questions so it is definitely some of those one of those things that is the topic of this year unfortunately for someone i guess you had on that was doing it is for their job why are they

doing it why are they doing it what's the purpose what answer did they give you there well he is generally interested in the technology right um adrian creon i think it was a couple of episodes ago a few episodes ago uh and he he's just a technologist he just loves the fact that it gives you another way to economize your game and uh there are a handful of people that are embracing it and so it's one of those things there's a gold rush mentality behind it right but also uh he does see the practicality but also says that it's great that people are against it right now because it it it is a new technology it's not perfect it's not that great and it only gets better by people opposing it right so i appreciate his open-mindedness about and i like that too it's like well you know if it didn't work then it wouldn't work and uh

yes it's destroying the environment but come on that's very few people don't like it come on man most people don't like it not because of that you know they like they don't like it because of the greediness when they're my age but who cares that's their problem hey man if they're the one buying it right you say the young millennials buying it all up there they're i'm not buying it i'm not supporting it they're playing into their own demise yeah it's their choice it's not my choice it's their choice so uh that concludes today's or this week's uh this month's round right uh i have no doubt that we're going to talk about it again i'm going to do my research find more about it ray is going to report you know back to us after he talks to his friends about it i am not i am absolutely one of these days you're gonna be out of the two of

us let's be honest here you're gonna be the first one that owns an nft it won't happen out of the two of us yeah if there's ever a possibility you would be the first one because i'm the cheapest one out of two of us i know that for sure you own some cryptocurrency but it's it's it's more me just seeing what happens you know there you go you're already making excuses why you're buying nothing and nothing is happening they're there enough