How's it going, Outfit7? Learnings from 2025 to New Projects in 2026

Hello everyone. Welcome to another Gamigin podcast. Today we have Jernej and he says it's not the exact pronunciation, but I'm doing my best. He's from Outfit7, you know, Talking Tom and Beyond. He's the CEO and has lots of stuff to say. Jernej, who are you?
Jernej, as you said, guy that joined the gaming industry but coming from completely different expertise and background. I'm actually the guy that is coming from finance, hardcore one. So, accounting acquisitions and that stuff. And then I continued into the FMCG, so retail, working there for 10 years. And then suddenly it happened that I wanted to do the move and I got not an offer, but actually there was opportunity to join the company that I was not aware what the company was about and it was Outfit7 interview and I figured out that this is actually the Talking Tom company. I was like, "Man, why you didn't say that?" But the thing that convinced me to join the company was not not even the product, nothing or whatever salary and or other stuff

around, but was the vibe in the office. So, my question was, "So, if I'm joining, then I'm allowed to wear shorts and t-shirts?" They were like, "Yeah, this is how we work here." I was like, "I'm bought. I'm in." And this is what is keeping me here. So, I'm in the company for 10 years, actually almost 11 years. So, like old fart here, working on different positions, starting with the financial backbone of the company, taking over distribution, marketing, um products. And now I'm I'd say a little bit pain of the in the ass for everyone because I'm overseeing the things and thinking what is the next thing, where to move and how to move. And actually keeping that old spirit of the company also for the new ones coming here.
You know, when you say CEO, it's literally the translation would be head of everything. You must be everywhere technically.
I hope that no one thinks that I'm everywhere because if they see that down there that I'm not doing the right job.

So I see it actually I'm like a inventory in the in the building which is also always also good because I'm here when someone needs the help and I'm there when I believe that I can contribute something. But the most important thing is amplify the the guys that we hear here and amazing team and that's it.
That's that's cool actually. And like today I would like to talk about like the markets was mobile gaming doing and on the top of it like at 25 last year how did you do? Of course coming back to how is it going today and connecting it to future not just from like Albert's own perspective but you know overall industry trends.
It was like I would say wake-up call. So the year started pretty much well. We have a good ideas and great ideas and we started to execute them and to be honest we were dealing a lot maybe too much just with ourselves. How we are going to structure ourselves where we are going to focus so it was really organizational stuff

because we are we had and we are still having an amazing product. And then the overall market was suddenly not suddenly but was changing. It was that kind of the thing that you feel it but you you cannot completely identify it until it hits you in the back. And we saw it with the results that in the somewhere around the May that our results and the project we are doing it's not really working well. And we couldn't find the proper ingredient what was missing there. So we had some kind of crisis meeting which was more like meeting around the coffee. Hey what we are going to do and suddenly it was like what we really miss here. It was that that kind of it's a connection or the gang style that we were always used to do and work on. It was like we are actually missing this our back to the roots who we really are. And what we started to do we had a lot of things in the pipeline that were not completely we we missed some kind of clear focus what we wanted to do. And uh we were always used to have some kind of nicknames for the projects. And this we

are talking okay, but we are on the right. We know what is happening with the market. And we are actually acting like little Calimero Calimeros. So, you remember that small bird with a thing on his head. And we are actually going into the corner and say, "No one is fair. Nothing is fair towards us." because everyone um is doing something and we are not getting that and entire market is working against us. And it was like, "But we are here and we can do the change." So, we actually said, "Okay, let's go on the right." This was our nickname. And what we set to do, let's stick to our roots and do the things that we do the best. So, we decided that we will not go and do just protect our position, but we will do the complete attack. So, we said that we want to do something that no one is expecting. So, we released for first time in the history of Outfit7 three games in a row. So, we had in production Talking Tom and Friends 2, which was a sequel of Talking

Tom and Friends 1. And we said, "Okay, if we know that it's really hard to penetrate high on the ranks, let's go in with all the knowledge that we have and add something on top." So, this was like going all in. And this was the first game that we released during the summer. The second one that we decided to stick on was let's enter the kids segment with Talking Tom and Friends. Why we decided to do so? Because users were always asking or assuming that, "Okay, you have a really nice characters. Why don't you do something for kids specifically?" And we had in pipeline the Talking Tom and Friends World, which is game designed specifically for the for the toddlers and preschoolers. So, we said, "Okay, this is the second one. So, we are covering and extending our presence in the mobile segment to new to the new segment where we are not present. And the last one is also connected with the name going back to the roots. So, let's remaster the Talking Tom, the original one, with the new design, upgraded, and let's do this

revamp of that one. But, let's do it ballistically. So, let's really stick to that humor and the things I remember it before joining the company when Talking Tom was ruling the mobile gaming segment. It was scratching, farting, doing the crazy stuff. So, let's do this. Let's amplify it. And we did it. And um it was not what we released and what we did, but was the learning that we got from that, and specially the vibe that was again in the company. So, why I'm saying the vibe? Because we really missed that spirit. Everything was really well specced. So, it was more like talk the talk, but not walk the walk. Because we know what we were intend to do, but we are missing this mojo to do it. And with this, when we stick together, I'm not saying "Oh, this is my job, and that's your job, and you didn't do that, and you didn't do that." It was like, "No, guys, we are on the same boat. This is our gang. Let's do it in our way." And this is now reflecting. So, the second half of the year was again revamp of the things. We ended

this year reaching the KPIs that we wanted to reach. And we see right now for the first quarter of the year, the things are going into the direction that we want. Beside that, we work a lot on collaborations, which we know that we have a cool products, the old ones. Let's maintain them. We also learned that market is not the same as it was. Before, we were really used that whatever we released with our brands, we get a insane traction organically from the users. Right now, we were on the top of the ranks with Friends 2. But, the amount that we got in is something like 1/3 or maybe 40% of what we were used to. So, we also proved that Yeah, this is the new reality. You can do an amazing stuff. You can do whatever you want and you are reaching the top ranks, but the user base is a little bit different and the intention of the users is shifting somewhere else. So, with all these learnings and specially the gang style that we have again, things are moving and we are going to stick to that. So, I would say that our main

learning is having the clear focus for everyone. Don't deal with your own KPIs, but deal with the vision and stick the roots to who you are, to your core principles and values.
That's That's very well summarized actually. And connected to that, like you also gave some really clear advices. How would you depict markets for the last literally 1 year? Because everyone is saying yeah, the market got higher, the like barrier to keep profitable and like successful got higher and higher. Like how how do you see from your perspective?
But I agree with this. It's a fact. Penetration and obstacles are getting so high that it's insane. You need really to work on the visibility and discoverability and here we are all limited with two main platforms that are dealing with this. What I can say, if I'm connecting with the financial background, it's everyone is maximizing the value that he can squeeze out of the market and it's not fair to finger point

and blame anyone on this because everyone wants to maximize the value and his output. So, we really need to live with that and try to benefit out of it. So, the fact is that counting just on new releases and then thinking that things are just going to happen, it's not fair anymore. So, you really need to think and curate what you have, but still leave the space for the exploration. So, for me the key learnings to share is like working on exploitation keeping the exploration. So, exploitation um we have a really good platform or ecosystem of apps. We shouldn't forget about them. So, users like them. They are getting the biggest traction and the biggest visibility. Bigger one that's the new ones. So, why don't focus on that one? Why we are ashamed of or ashamed of them? Because they're really great. Users like them. So, let's try to not just get more users into it, but actually think about how to maintain them in how to keep them in the

entire ecosystem. We are having a lot of different same brands across different products and different platforms. Video content, physical products, even cinema streaming, and we have games. So, how to actually merge all this in one unified ecosystem. So, it's really important to work on the brand and curate it. Then the question happened, "Yeah, but you know, investing in brand it's like throwing money through the window." Yeah, how to invest smartly into it? And on the other side, if we are dependent and fact is dependent of one strong IP, also giving the wing a wind into the wings to the new guys that are exploring. So, this exploration. So, it's balancing. Exploration of the new IPs, new platforms, even new approaches how to how to distribute the things. And here with geo situation, so the visibility you can get it on some other stuff like Gemini, ChatGPT. How to be there not the first one on the rankings, but the first recommendation. And what

is working there? What is important to get that recommendation? For this we assembled a completely separate team just dealing with this. And it was hard because no one was dealing with that, but we were also used to do it not just assuming making assumptions, but through it with AB testing, having the clear goals. So, this is this exploration. Beside this, we have two separate teams that are fully allocated just for exploring the new stuff. So, one is a Play Very division. They are working on three different sub strategies figuring out one is like collaborating with big platforms, another one is exploring the new genres of the games that could have potential tractions and new IPs. And the third one is, let's try going also on the Steam and PC games where we are not present, but we see that certain amount of users are is moving there. And also H5 games are raising up. So, production is low, but you can get really good traction and you can do something amazing. And one thing that we

just approved and we decided to go to the global release is a sell approach where we are also exploring with different ways how to go to the market. The main thing is, let's keep and give the chance of one team to explore on the game that we just green-lighted, but they need to figure out the way on their own. So, a really small team and what happened that actually they come up came up with the game called Vampirio, which is like survival roguelike game play that is having really good KPIs and we are moving to the global release. So, with this, keeping the focus and just giving resources and focus for one team that they are not distracted with the, let's say, problems of big sister or being bullied with a little brother, but it's like, just guys go, you have the trust, prove it. They did it. The last thing that it's hard to say, but I think that important part was also ad- admitting that we need to reinvent ourselves. Because we are in the

company, I said it, old farts, for really long period. And yes, we have a lot of experience, we have a lot of knowledge, but um what I see is also that we are funneling or maybe limiting the new guys or new potentials that are coming up. If you are saying, yes, but you know, we already tested this and we know how we did it in the past. Another thing is actually admitting it. Yes, world is changed, Situation is new. It's new team, new potentials that yes, they will do a lot of mistakes. Our task and our goal is actually to be the hidden mentors trying to to support them, to actually mentor them, but not somehow frame them. So, it's like giving them the wild card, but be there as a coach. And that's it. This is connected with what's when you were saying that I come CEO and I should be all around. Yeah. Yes, but trying to be like more men in the shadow. Not being present, but being

there when there is a need.
Very well said actually. And like when you mentioned about this investment side, it definitely needs first of all the money, especially in this market. Like I'm very close to, you know, Turkish mobile gaming industry. And on the top of that like Vietnam, Israel. And I know how the industry is kind of like going for copycat stuff rather than like trying, investing. Basically, right now like usually having a new studio instead of trying like big project with big budget. Okay, this this is successful. Let's you know like just like this Pixel Flow new games. Wow, $1 billion. Why not reinventing the wheel? We will not maybe get $1 billion, but $100 million is us. You know like the logic is kind of shifting like this. But beyond that like what you like My last question would be when it comes to what is new, what is hot, what is shifting both market-wise, both and company-wise. What comes to your mind coming from AI to let's say, you know, new trends?

Coming from AI, it's like it's a fact. So, because it's for me it's really a buzzword that is just going around. And I said for me AI is really like a shower. And I can watch at the shower or excavator. It's just a tool. And we can all work around it and we can make a much better excavator. But what instead of that trying to build a building? Yes, using the excavator, but do something amazing that and there is too much words talking about the this. Fact is that it's like again, wake up call. Things are the same. Users are actually aiming for the same satisfaction in the games, cool feeling, keeping the motivation in, staying with the game for years as you mentioned it, finding cool stuff into it and this this will not change. But we need to understand them what is there and how we are getting there. For sure there are production cycles are shortening up because we needs to be much more fluent. So here is the technology that right now allows us to do the things much faster and much more efficient. This doesn't mean that people

will lose the job. In reality, I'm proud of this talking about all the layoffs. Till now, we didn't actually separated with no one in the company because of the technology. Yes, but we are keeping ultra high standard who we are hiring for. And one of our principles, which is a little bit again contradictory, we want to hire better people than we are. So this is I want someone that is actually going to be pain in the ass for me because if he is better and he's bringing something else, I will also grow and the company will grow. If I'm just getting someone that is a top expert, but he's going just to say, "Yes, master. Yes, I agree. I will do this." He's not changing the overall production, overall idea how it's what is happening there. So I would say that for the future what is the key role is getting the right people in with the right right spirits that are not that are hungry to do the change and on the other side keeping the core values the same. So we have the users, they still like. So we needs to keep the product up

to speeds, up to the quality and think broader. Platforms are changing. Users are spending We are all having the same amount of time, but we are spending it somewhere different. So how to get the eyeballs and integrate the games somewhere else. TikTok, markets. We needs to go there. We need to be present there. We were smiling about H5 games 2 years ago. Now these are again the hot potato. So it's again going back to the roots. Things are here to stay. It's the same as with mechanics. We are all enjoying pretty much the same four five types of mechanics that are just merging a different way. So let's work around that thingy. But the most important thing is how to bring the emotions emotions in. Because if I'm just playing that a Tamagotchi thing, but I cannot connect with that one that I will have the urge of coming back, exploring what's new, really having this emotional connection, then it's just a a game. But if there is a connection, then I can talk about Tom. And this is then the Tom, it's an Angela. And in our case

this is our Outfit7 gang or Talking Tom and Friends gang. I will end here with how I see the team and then also the products. We can have We can have a really good one top leader or a manager that can guide the things. But he's the just one person band there like a top guitarist doing the solo and having the the best musi- musicians support him, but there is no vibe. Actually he's a master, he's shredding that guitar, but just that that little niche of you of audience will enjoy it. But if you have the let's say high school band, no one is like a top guy into it, but there is a power and they just want to bring the energy, you see that connection. They they up the riff, but it's just the eye contact you feel it and then the audience responds to that. They will they will be shredding under the stage and they will be all enjoying it. And this is what what I believe that we need to bring

back. That we are passionated on the product that we are doing, that we are not dealing about how much money we will get out of it, but how much enjoyment we will get and the users will also feel it. So it goes both ways. So it's easier to say, but
[laughter]
maybe this is the the North Star and I I feel it here. It's a different when when you come to the office and you you see the guys and you are not talking about product, but you see the passion, that's what what matters and what is keeping this industry still really prospective also for the future.
That's so true and very well said and actually I've been planning about a big article where is the industry heading like literally getting insights from different publishers in terms of why are we super dependent on UA big budgets and like it's you know like the title will be something like has gaming industry always been under capitalism? But I would love to get your take over there, too.
I like it. I fully agree. I think that

we went actually back to the we wanted to be different and we wanted to be a little bit more edgy, but in reality we started to act like a proper capitalistic industry just aiming the KPIs and the profit, but the fact is like let's stay true to what who we are. Um and I will go back to my FMCG retail carrier, but when I'm now joking with the guys is like, "Hey guys, we are think about our users that our games need to have some kind of loyalty program into it. Don't just think about get more and more users in and then don't take up care about them because they are we just we are the only one here like a store and everyone will come to us to to buy, but in reality there are a lot of stores, a lot of games around there. So, what is the added value that they will get here? So, this is this loyalty program, which means happy meals, super cool things, or we are calling it super cool value. So, super cool value is not the value that one user brings into the

your game, but is a total time spent that they spend in your ecosystem, not thinking about just KPIs of the product team, but also entertainment team. So, video content, physical products. If you keep him user in this loop, it's your. So, I would like that it's happening when someone asks me on the street, "Hey, what is the best game that you recommend or the brand?" And the guy will say, "Sorry, I'm not playing the games. I'm not aware of this, but check out Talking Tom, Subway Surfers, this thing because I think that I heard that they are really cool." This is what we are all aiming for and we should aim for. Because this means that no one cares about how much we are spending, but we are really taking care of who we are and what we are bringing on the table.
So true. Very well said, to be honest. Well, circling it around uh because like mobile gaming industry people are listening to this, I would love to come up with the let's say advices side for

the industry. Of course, we cannot make it like super general because, you know, like there are people from, let's say, Zynga to also like solo developers. I would say with the business mindset, because like you are in a really good position, you know, not directly founder or like not just the marketing person, but covering many aspects, how would you suggest to these studio owners from hyper casual, hybrid casual, casual to, let's say, bigger IPs, what would be your mindset's advices?
Be proud of portfolio that you have. So, if you have the games that are performing, don't be ashamed of them and really curate them and think about the users that you have in. So, updates matters, but the amount that you are spending per update, and if this if this is not contributing that much, try to lower those costs and really think about the impact that you are doing. Fact, I can prove it with the data. We are working insanely on one update for My Talking Tom Hank for a new island. It

took us a lot of resources, but the amount of users that came to that island was really small. But they were coming more into the beginning screen. So, how to be give them the in the initial funnel the biggest crazy experience ever. So, this is think really where you are investing your resources and what this mean for the user. It could mean insanely a lot for the internal team because they will do the the top sheet job on their product and they will really enjoy it, but no one will see the value. So, think who for whom you are bringing the value and then you can again do the excellent work just with the right focus for who you are doing it. Uh that's one thing on this side. Another one is for sure don't hold back and close the pipe for the investments because right now when the industry is in completely mature phase without investments nothing will happen. It's

like saying, I want to race but you are not going and you don't train. What's the point then? Then you cannot say that you will win except if suddenly something will happen and all other guys that will actually fight with you are going to be sick or they would just not show at the starting line. So, you need to think, hey I need to train, I need to explore, I need to do something different and that's the whole point. And regarding user acquisition it's not about into the all into the direct spend anymore. I believe that we need to find the right balance. It's also not insanely investing in top of the funnel, but it's like a a right combination. So, in different period of life of the product different strategies need to be approached. We also needed to prove to ourselves that our old perception how to do it didn't worked and we did it in a hard way. So, this was with friends too in 2025. We were happy on the other side with the results, we were not completely

happy. But we learned it. And this was also a hardcore proof to us that yes, even though that we did everything, this is the new situation. So, let's adapt adapt to it. Because without having this data point, we would always go back and say that's not intentional finger-pointing. Distribution didn't do everything or product didn't do everything. No, we all went into it together. And now we know where we are. That's go together forward and avoid silos. Because finger-pointing, saying that's not my job, this is that's your task, it's not true. We are all together in this. One of the principles, do the right things and do them in the right way. So, it's it goes in the both sides.
Very well said. And I would say you literally have one keywords summarizing, wrapping up all of them, value first. I think that's your vision overall. Probably you you have it also in daily life, whatever you do, value first, guys, right?
Value first, but not value in money and

the numbers, but values first. So, what is it defining the core essence of the company or the brand? Yes, it's for me it's values first, who you want to be, how you want to act, and then all other things will reflect. And this is something that stayed with me when I joined the company because I was before value first. So, numbers, KPIs, profit, margins. And when I joined the company, my first question was, what is the budget? What are the KPIs? And I got the answer, man, we don't talk here about this. That's just the quantity. We talk about our values and way how we work. So, for me, how much is not that important of how we are going to do it. Because then what we will get out of it is just the consequence.
Love it. Like I wish everyone was this lucky because I really love this. Well, that that was really a great chat, Yianni. Thanks a lot for joining. And my

last sentence would be, let's just all remember that we are in the entertainment industry. So, that's why we should first entertain ourselves and then value us first. Thank you so much for joining and lots of love to Outfits. Thanks for invitation and it was really great chat. Really like it. Thank you.