Week in Mobile Games E49: Trump tariffs chaos and Supercell's celebrity marketing & investments push

[Music] Hello and welcome to the pocket gamer.biz podcast week in mobile games where we discuss the week's news and provide some insights. I'm Craig Chapel, head of content at pocketgamer.biz. I remember to introduce myself this week. Didn't last week with me today. Got Aaron Asel back, our news editor. How you doing, Aaron? What you been able to see? Yeah. Yeah, doing all right, thank you. Um, I feel like I've got slightly less exciting stories to bring from my personal life than last week. I think last week was my return after few weeks off. Or was that the one before already? Anyway, too much partying, Aaron. You can't remember. Yeah, I can't keep up with what happened when. But, um, no, it's quite a quiet week for me. Really been playing some Zenoblade Chronicles X, which I got for my birthday a few weeks ago. Nice. Which has been quite fun. Is that like a 200 hour game? if you want to do everything. Yeah, I'm

going to see how it goes. I do want to play them. I haven't played them, but the uh just just how long they seem to be puts me off cuz Xenoblade 3 I would argue up there is one of the best games of all time. Um for me, okay, two is very good as well. It feels like it's always a hard sell on two because you have to get through maybe like five to 10 hours of it being Okay. And that is a lot of hours. Yeah. And then it's like brilliant once you're past like the 10 hour mark. But obviously that is a high investment for someone to that's the classic thing that I do TV shows. I'm like well if you get past the first season like 10 hours but um cuz yeah I'd say three so three has is more consistently very good. Two maybe has higher highs but lower lows whereas three is just pretty consistently like a good like nine out of 10. So, best game ever. Nine out of 10. Yeah, it has a few

tens. I think it it peaks about threequarters of the way through is um the only thing. So, you kind of It's not bad at the end, but they didn't save the best till last. It's my only little criticism, but yeah, we'll have to see how X goes. I'm quite enjoying it so far. Uh that reminded me of the uh is it the Guardian or it was one of the Brit British newspapers when Skyfall came out was getting a lot of critical acclaim and their review of this franchise that had had was at that point I don't know three 24 films or whatever it was. Best best Bond ever. Four out of five. Okay. So all the other ones weren't that great. Yeah. I'd say yeah, giving it a nine out of 10 there was I think as I say cuz two has higher high points. So if that is where 10 is then three doesn't ever quite hit the same heights for me but it is much more consistently up there. So yeah, you should definitely check the series out if you haven't. I I'm just kidding. You know, they're just numbers. Yeah, it's a good game. I'll give it a 9.2.

You're very good. Oh, you're going for that system. You're very granular. Bringing it back. Anyway, yeah. Anyway, what have you been up to? Already going off on a tangent. So, no, this week we we were just discussing before. I was like, what have I done? I don't know. Again, once again, I've been to a a nice cocktail bar, a jazz bar in London that I like. They had a live act. It wasn't actually jazz, but it was very it was very good. It's like a I don't know. I just like finding these places in London where it's like a busy part of town, but then the actual place has a nice vibe, but it's it's it's also there's a lot of people in it, but it's quite quiet. It was really nice, actually. Right. So, going to jump into the news. There's been a few big stories this week. One big story in particular that we'll we'll discuss. Before we get there, usual shout out. So, we've got a bunch of events coming up. Dubai Game Expo Summit powered by Pocket Gamer Connects on May 7th and 8th. PGC Barcelona June 3rd to 4th. PGC Summit in Shanghai July 30th.

PGC Helsinki October 7th and 8th. We've got the Mobile Games Awards in August. We'll have PGC Jordan later this year. And we do have some other events that I'm not sure we've announced. So, go back a couple podcasts and Chris says what they are. But yeah, we'll be announcing those in due course. And I'll Oh, and I'll also be um how can I forget? I'll also be at Gamescom Latam in a couple weeks just before I head off to Dubai. So I'll be in South Paulo, Brazil. Really looking forward to that. If you want to meet up, drop me a message on email, LinkedIn or wherever. So the uh onto the news, the big story of the week that I'll attempt to wade through. I'm not an I'm not an economist as is evident. So obviously last week we spent it talking a bit about the switch too and it impacts that as well. Is is the news of Trump's tariffs which have sent the global economy kind of crashing and recuperating as of So we're recording this on Thursday as of end of

yesterday and and today it was announced I think last Wednesday in the most kind of the most ridiculous way possible. I just feel like I'm living in a in a TV show, which I think is exactly how it's supposed to feel. And and so it gets announced on this big board. Here's the reciprocal tariffs. And basically the US, the Trump administration is trying to balance trade with what is these kind of these imbalances. And they call it reciprocal tariffs, but it's not. Um so so some of the percentages so some of the tariffs that were initially kind of dealt out so China was hit with 34% tariffs on top of existing tariffs against it imposed 46% tariffs on Vietnam I think 20 something% on on India the UK got 10% which is the baseline for basically everyone except a a few countries which kind of avoided it for various reasons but anyway yeah so

these are called reciprocal tariffs and then they put out these like the formula of how they got to this and just when I watch the news see the experts talk about it they're like it doesn't it doesn't actually make sense and it's like these Greek letters that they've put together but what's actually happened is from that I think they've devised that I can't remember the I can't remember how it works now is it it's like exports minus imports or something like that divided by two and then you get to these percentages and and it all completely ignores why in most cases why there's a trade imbalance if you're going to do it like that cuz it's not to do with tariffs on American goods. So Vietnam is kind of becoming a manufacturing center and the way they make their money is to export to kind of a rich country like America, right? And then they and they can make money. It's not going to work the other way rounds. That that's not how again I'm not an economist. I'm sort of muddying my way through this, but that's not how like capitalism works, is

it? It's forcing people to buy basically buy your goods. The Trump administration wants more manufacturing at home. Fair enough. But you can't change that overnight, which is what they're basically trying to do. It's going to take years. So what in the meantime, the world's just supposed to suffer. And it kind of I guess it kicks it all off. Shock to the system, but it affects everyone. Everyone's retirement funds would blow up. well, could have blown up, but now there's a 90-day uh reprieve, thank God, for most countries. Although, China's now slapped with, I think, and something% 120 something% tariffs uh as a trade war kind of kicks off there, which is which is pretty bad for everyone as well. Somehow, allegedly, they're going to negotiate with 75 countries new tariff deals in 90 days, apparently in 80 days. Just it's not going to happen either. You can't do a big expansive trade deal in that time frame. If you consider like when the European Union

has done trade deals with other country, they've taken years. So you just got to put something together. Again, just doesn't make much sense to me. So anyway, the so the consequences of this for games and tech share prices started tumbling. Like stock markets were definitely diving quite a lot. And then Wednesday was when the tariffs kicked in. And then and then now and then by Thursday they're not. And Nintendo, which I think has manufacturing in China and Vietnam. They were moving some of it out of China to avoid I think the uh regulations and tariffs and then they just get slapped with it in Vietnam. So, there's uh they've delayed pre-orders in the US, Canada, and now China after literally just announcing, well, the release date hasn't changed, but after literally just announcing pre-orders on the release date. Um, and then obviously Apple, it's like they've lost hundreds of billions of dollars in their market cap. And then obviously other smartphone manufacturers it would affect like Samsung. So, and we looked earlier this week like all all

the obviously like all the tech companies in all the big tech companies in the US and like a lot of a lot of major publishers or Gab's companies kind of seeing their shares go down a lot of them have gone back up but like at least the last time I looked which was yesterday they hadn't say gone up back past last Wednesday. So you see you're hearing on the news at the moment you know biggest surge since the uh the financial crisis in 2008 single day stock markets have rebounded. I don't know. I I I mean, I don't feel that. I have, you know, I have some shares, right? And and I'm not feeling that. They they they tanked quite a lot and then they've risen but have not risen back to what they were. So, yeah, we we put a few articles out about it. We had a Louise Waldridge from Ampair Analysis talking to us. Yeah. She was basically again saying

the most immediate concern of the tariffs is the switch too. Um, again talking about the Vietnam tariff which was a big blow. Ultimately it could affect the prices of these of the hardware. We'll see what hap we'll see what Nintendo does. Be very difficult for them to raise the price just after they've announced it. Apparently well there was concern that iPhones cost hundreds of dollars more in America. None of this is good. And then al ultimately if some of this still leads to sorry if this still leads to a recession you know it's a 90-day reprieve and the China trade war still going. So, a lot can happen. Things could just change overnight as well. For all we know, negotiations don't go well for a few days and they get slapped with tariffs. Later recession will mean, well, that'll just impact games anyway because people have less money to then spend on on entertainment and we've now proven that games aren't recession proof. And and it's just as the games industry is getting back on its feet as well after a really rough few years.

This is just not what the world needed. and and America, this is as political as I'll get on this, but some of the rhetoric coming out is is mad. Like just looking at it from the outside of America, you know, you like they're slapping these ridiculous tariffs on countries has nothing to do with the tariffs against them and then and then when a country says what the hell and does it back at the same rate then Trump or people from the administration is coming out on TV and going well that's so like ridiculous. Why would they that's so offensive that they do that and and then they like double the tariffs. It's like, "What is this? What do you expect? You can't You can't just like punch someone in the face and then they'll go, "Thank you." What? I I just It's a strange time we live in. Anyway, I I'll stop there cuz at large I probably don't know what I'm talking about. But, uh, what do you think, Aaron? What do you that you've seen? So,

I've obviously I'm quite a big Nintendo guy, so I've been seeing quite a lot of speculations and conversations around Yeah. the how they may or may not have affected the switch to pricing we talked a bit about last week. Um so I guess from that angle um yeah obviously not great for consumers if the tariffs do end up meaning that it you know costs more to get games and consoles in America. There seems to be quite a lot of conflicting information out there as to whether the tariffs have already whether they Nintendo kind of pre um pre-planned for the tariffs and up their prices or whether they could still go up even higher than what we heard last week in response to them, which I think would be quite a a blow for people that already feel it's on the more expensive end if they go up even more before the Switch comes out. I think like the I get that again not an economist when people say that like oh

maybe they took the tariff into consideration when they did the pricing. I think yeah fair enough but I the level of the levies is is is I think just way higher than anyone had anticipated for for a lot of countries. So that just throws like how can you plan for that? So that's the that's the the big story of the week. I I feel like by the time this this episode comes out, it will probably have all changed again. It's been a It's been an insane week. It's gone from here the tariffs. We're not budging. Okay, it's on pause. Mad. Absolutely mad. Been on pause by the time it is. I I I wouldn't be surprised at this point. Be a guast. Right. So, what what else in these? Yeah. So, hopefully something a little bit lighter. A Minecraft movie has earned $31 million. That's over just its first two days uh in theaters uh global figure uh which is you know a lot

of money. It was reported that the production budget was about 150 million. So yeah just within its first two days it already like doubled how much it costs to make in revenue you earn which plus marketing. Yeah true but yeah obviously a very strong start for it. Um, apparently 52% of that initial like 2-day revenue figure came from the deep the US. It was about 157 million people spent. Um, yeah, go and watch the film. That was according to Box Office Mojo. Um, so obviously, you know, Minecraft's very big IP. I think we've kind of been seeing a rise in video game films not being universally hated in the last like decade. Maybe maybe not quite that long yet, but it feels like they always used to just be assumed it was going to be awful. Even if you're a fan of the franchise, whereas there does seem to have been a bit of a shift to, you know, even if they're not universally loved, there's certainly audiences that are

enjoying the video game films more these days. Quite a few of like my friends and stuff want to see it. Apparently, it can get quite rowdy in there, which is So, I've seen the clips. Have you seen them? like doing the rounds of people like applauding and so usually it's to do with the um chicken fight, right? And then that that's the scene that's kind of going viral where people are in the cinemas. Yeah. It's just people like screaming then but then like people start taking it to extreme levels. Like there was one where people actually brought in an a real chicken to the cinema and then started honestly it was it's mad. There's quite a lot of them and then they start frying loads of stuff around cinema and then obviously the whole thing gets paused and they get chucked down and then there's just image of this chicken just walking around in the lobby. Right. Interesting thing that I've also noticed is that like some of the reviews seem so guardian or so they give it like one star out of five. It looks like the the

critics don't like it that much while maybe fans love it. I think that's interesting that you can kind of do a film that hits a lot of the beats that the that massive player base you the massive fan base you already have will love but it doesn't do anything potentially because I haven't seen it but it doesn't do anything like yeah for the kind of this sounds like criticism but to like elevate it for a critic to be like oh this is this is a masterpiece. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's probably true for yeah quite a few of the video game films. I don't feel like I've seen any that like I don't remember Detective Pikachu getting like Oscar nominations or anything. Although I really enjoyed that. I thought that was a great film. You know, I really enjoyed the uh it's not a game one, but like the the Lego movie because they actually not Yeah. They actually did like a little bit extra, right? It wasn't just Lego. Then they sort of came out of that

world and did a bit more. And then with Barbie, they do a bit more than you expect. I think with the IP, you you could have easily just been here's a kids film, but what you actually get is quite uh they touch upon like quite big topics in a really interesting way, like the patriarchy and stuff like you just don't really expect to see that in your in your Barbie film. But they they did it really well. I don't know what the point is I I'm trying to make. I think in general like the quality of these these things has has got a lot better other than the Borderlands film. So uh moving on, we've got uh a few more uh news stories I want to cover. So I don't think we got to this last week. I think it happened just after we recorded the podcast, but apploving the adtech firm that's fast growing but also getting a lot of flak from short sellers uh which are trying to tank it stock and then possibly buying it back again to catch

it on the rise. App has found itself in the news a lot and yeah now it wants to buy Tik Tok along with I think every everyone else. So that kind of comes from Tik Tok is obviously effectively banned in the US right now. It's it's allowed to to to keep running but it has to divest or kind of it will go offline. Was given a I think what was it a 75 day 90day reprieve again again by Trump something else to get some reprieve for a deal to happen. So basically the US rights to Tik Tok is really what's on the table that has now so you actually we actually got to the day before the deadline and then it's it's been extended for another 75 days while so a deal could take place. Couple interesting things were that so when Adam Adam Fugi the apploing CEO is talking about it. He was b he basically said at one point I think it was on CNBC that he was asked like have you actually

who have you actually spoken to and I think it was just they've kind of sounded out their interest to the Trump administration. Haven't actually talked to light darts or anyone in China at least at that stage. And then in the when there the deadline was extended, I think there was a story that was basically saying a deal had actually been agreed or almost sorry been agreed before the deadline extension and I think Tik Tok would still own like a 20% stake. So that would suggest that Apploving doesn't really it wasn't them and they don't really stand much of a chance. Assuming everything that we hear coming out is is true. whether the extension to the deadline gives Apploven a chance. So they they think they're obviously they think they're the best choice. They actually Applo actually wants to acquire or or or as he put it like partner merge with Tik Tok's entire international business outside of China

so that they can kind of combine Tik Tok's recommendation algorithm with its own kind of ad personalization algorithm. And they said that Tik Tok was undermonetized even which I thought was interesting as well because it it makes a lot of money. Most of it is in charge of it. It's you know obviously it makes tremendous amount of money if you put it like that. It kind of make it does if you just looked at it like that not the the rest of how that deal made up. It kind of makes sense but then you know I think Oracle is in for a bid and they actually run uh Tik Tok's cloud service. So that would also make sense, right? And then Amazon or Amazon's just Amazon isn't it's got a lot of money to kick around. So could be them or consortium to of some degree in the coming months. We should hear more on that. I think it's sort of a roadblock going back to tariffs has been has been hit because China is obviously like well

you can't like they're going to block the sale basically because of the tariffs. And how do you when they're in the middle of a trade war and neither side wants to back down, it could escalate further. I don't know. It would be surprising to me if a deal was done for Tik Tok in the US, but you never know. What do you think, Aaron? You're a big Tik Tok fan. I am. Uh, you can't get me off of it. No, I mean, it's it all just seems a bit chaotic really. Obviously, you had it briefly going down back in January and then suddenly it was back. I'm at a bit of a loss for words on it to be honest. I just don't know what's going to happen. It's just again just kind it feels like the state of the world that we're in. It's all ridiculous. One other thing to say is it could affect in the end it could end up affecting other Chinese companies in America. The law that is kind of that is getting Tik Tok banned does open it up to other companies potentially. I think one of the concerns is 10 cent obviously

has a lot of investments in the US including in like Epic Games. Bite Dance has actually already had to kind of split itself apart from the games some of the games it publishes. Skystone games has picked up the publishing rights to Marvel Snap and they've also picked up the US publishing rights to Mobile Legends from Moonto which is owned by Bance. So, it already affects other apps, not just Tik Tok. I guess those deals were easier to do cuz they're not on that same level. But Marvel Snap's not a small game. Mobile Legends is not a small game. Even in the US, removes. What else have you got? Yeah, so the next one from me kind of loosely on a similar trend. So, Supercell is kind of going all in on celebrity marketing. So, they've kicked off a new Clash Mania season in Clash of Clans. And so, there's various like celebrity

and IP partnerships going on with the Clans Village has changed into like an arena, like a wrestling type thing. And so, they've got a trailer with some WWE superstars in it like Eddie Rhodess and Ria Ripley, which yes, they're not the first like wrestlers to ever be in Supercell advertising. John Cena was in advertised Squad Busters. I think it was last year. Brawl Stars, which Spongebob of course and yeah, so I guess it kind of just continues this thing we're seeing of celebrities advertising games either being in them like with Minecraft and um Jack Black and Jason Mimoa and stuff or Yeah, there just seem to be loads of cases lately like you had um Will Ferrell voicing like the Monopoly man in Monopoly Go adverts and Chris Hemsworth was the barbarian in when Squadbusters was coming out and yeah, now we got WWE people advertising superstell stuff. It's like a whole event as well, right? It's Clash of Mania like so so when I when I saw the

the uh the WWE Clash Clans trailer and then I just suddenly like Supercell have been doing this a lot this celebrity marketing like with all of their game like their bigger games. And so, yeah, we had that. I've had the freaking Michael Bolton, how am I supposed to live without you song stuck in my head now for the past week because of the the Barbarian duet for Clash Royale. I'm I'm actually furious with Supercell just I can't get I just can't get rid of it. And then they did Gordon Ramsey for Heyday as well. Yeah, that was quite good. Yeah, that was really good actually. And then you mentioned some of the others. Oh, Early Hollands last year. Clash of Clans. I was I guess I was just thinking you know when you when you when I look at the data I don't see generally I haven't seen like for for the Clash Clans event which is pretty big but I don't know are they making like a lot of money out of these deals like what is what is their goal because obviously celebrity

partnerships going to be very expensive and and they don't always really work out like it's cool to see you know Pedro P you know you remember Pedro Pascal doing Merge Mansion or Ryan, well, no one remembers this, but Ryan Reynolds doing I can't even remember the game, Toy Blast or Tomb Blast or maybe both. That was a massive deal and they did loads of different creatives and I think it just flopped entirely. Please someone correct me if I was if I'm wrong there, but I think that whole campaign just absolutely flopped. Luckily, the games were incredibly good. Peak Peak is fine. Yeah, it just seems very Yeah, I'm just wondering what the goal is. Obviously, they're now kind of spinning off into film and TV. They're hiring someone to lead that and adapt their IPs to other mediums, which I thought was interesting. So, I wonder if this some of these part celebrity partnerships are kind of to empower that IP a bit, kind of get it connected with these other big names and really interesting campaigns and it kind of gets it in everyone's minds a bit more as like an even bigger

thing. I wondered if that was part of the play there or it could just be they got loads of money. It's cool. Let's do it. Yeah, because yeah, like from a kind of user acquisition side, I guess it's hard. I guess maybe I'm just slightly impervious to the advertising. I don't know. But like if you've not played an older game that is really wellnown like Clash of Clans or something that's been around for a long time, I don't see how seeing a trailer for it or an advert for it in in like 2025 with a celebrity in even if you like that celebrity whether it's like now I'm going to try this game because this celebrity advertised it. That is that is how it works though. I Yeah, I just don't understand it. But I get that. But but also to your point, like I just wonder how big the impact is versus the money you spend versus the money you get. Yeah. But I I it feels like maybe they're just trying to help their brands a bit whilst kind of maybe

they're expanding. Well, I guess they are with film TV expanding a bit more into an entertainment company long-term, not just games. cuz obviously I has always said his admiration for Nintendo and how they'd like to be like that, build these forever franchises, these IPs that people love and and so I guess it's a natural extension for them to expand expand into different mediums, I guess. But anyway, I'm going to go through very quickly this last story. So, we've got another Supercell story. They've kind of rebranded their investment arm. So they're giving it a new website, Supercell Investments, and they are looking to fund yet more games. It's actually surprising how many deals they've already done more kind of recent times and last few years. App Liy, App Charge, Bit Magic, Future Run. Obviously, they did Metacore before and some and some others that have kind of come and gone. I think they've had a bit of a spotty past in investments, especially early on. Um obviously not everything works out. Uh it hasn't always gone to plan. So the the

investment arm is aims to back studios at early stage and later called funding development teams across platforms as well as games tech companies. They said they offer early funding and growth capital operational independence and they bring industry expertise and a community of more than 1,000 professionals and partners. We actually we just published an interview today so definitely check that out which goes into a bit more detail about what Supercell is looking for and why they're doing it. One of the interesting figs that came out there was a few. So, in terms of their investment, they actually help with hiring, which I thought was interesting. So, they're not they don't just do the money, give you some independence, and then just leave you. Yeah. They actually if you need to recruit, they they can help with that if you need that. Their community of over 1,000 people is basically uh all their all the other kind of comp all the other companies they've invested in, as well as all the the staff that they have. I mean, I I feel like the 1,00 figure is kind of inflated because you're probably not going to speak to

every single person. Sorry. Not every one of those is going to be available to chat with, but there there's obviously a lot of extremely experienced people at Supercell, which runs its teams like separate businesses, plus all these other businesses that they're investing in. It sounds quite interesting for knowledge sharing and it sounds very Finnish because cuz they're very well known for that culture in in Finland's games industry which is really parted it become such a big hub. And then one of the other things is they just said that they are actively keeping an eye on M&A opportunities. So they've obviously just completed the full acquisition of Space Ape turned it into Supercell London. Um, interesting that they're also looking at, I guess, fully acquiring someone cuz I I did ask them. They sort of answered. So, I I spoke with Yako Haras, who's the head of investments. And I was just like, you know, why why do this at all? Basically, why do investments? Because why not just focus on developing your games and making some hits? Cuz ultimately, Squad Busters and Moo

haven't really hit the highs at all that you'd so far that you'd expect of Supercell. And then why not do like big acquisitions really you know players acquiring super play you know these like some sort of trans almost transformative deal or or one that has at least a very serious impact ultimately on your bottom line and brings like some of the market leaders into your company but they seem to just want to do everything. And so he said Supercell invests in other games companies to broaden its reach beyond the walls of its own studios. Not every talented founder wants to join an existing company. Many want to build something on their their own back. Backing independent teams, we could support that ambition while also learning from it. Then he said, "This approach gives us access to a wider talent pool, fresh perspectives on game development and exposure to genres, platforms, creative approaches outside our core focus." And then it says about empowering others. They're literally doing everything right. So in the changes that they made, they've got they kind of split Supercell itself almost into two parts initially which is the

new games program and then had the spark initiative to put together teams. They even have like psychologists to help put those together. That was initially opened internally and then now they're taking external developers. So they have Spark as well as investing in companies that I guess want more independence even though in theory Supercell's quite hands off. Yeah. And then uh then they got the live games teams and then now they're expanding also into film and TV. So there's nothing that Supercell isn't doing to grow. I guess it's must be feeling pretty ambitious after a good year. Um and they obviously have big plans like we were just talking about with their IPs. So yeah. Anyway, good for the industry that if Supercell wants to invest more money after the last couple of years where there's not been that much investment and it's kind of on the rise a little bit at the moment, but it's good to have a big backer like Super. Right, so that brings us to the end of this week's pocketing podcast week in mobile games. Thanks everyone

for tuning in. Uh, next week we're going to have a very special episode. It's our 50th episode of this particular show. Can't believe it's been 50 episodes. I think we've only missed a few. Yeah, we had, you know, it was a a slow start this year, but other than that, I think we've been pretty consistent with it. I've learned not to get ill again basically for a month. But yeah, please tune in. Uh we'll try we'll try and bring on some uh special guests for a very special episode. So, thank you for everyone that's been supporting us and listening or now or these days watching uh the episodes. We actually started started calling it the weekend views because that's one of the regulars we do on the site. Then I was suddenly like, wouldn't the weekend mobile games make more sense? Yeah. And now you can view us. It's not called the weekend view. No, I guess. Yeah. Didn't think of that. Once again, thank you for your support and thanks Aaron for being on the show. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Good to be here as always. And we'll see you all again next week. Have a good weekend. Goodbye.