Valve's Steamdeck | Roundtable News Episode 277

[Music] what's up everybody welcome to another episode of game dev unchained the number one game development podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof i am your host brandon pham and with me a special guest at least once a month rick graham how you doing ray doing good man what's going on brian it's been a while man i know i know thanks for having me come through of course always a pleasure to have you on and uh it's uh i always need my daily well my monthly dose of what's up and uh for those who haven't read the title of this episode it is a round table news episode which also means that we take the biggest topic of the month and discuss it openly through opinions of our own and not reflective of our

company and uh this helps kind of figure out what the trend is uh regarding the game industry so without further ado let's go ahead and start talking about this so the main thing is uh this is right off the hot press here uh the steam deck right the steam deck was something uh that literally just popped up uh today uh as of this recording for those that are listening you're about four days later right but this i guess was long rumored for a while ray right um i didn't know it was as serious though i didn't know i didn't think that they were i thought they were all vr focused uh but uh i think it's a generally why don't i ask your opinion what do you think this move is about i have no idea like like i think

well thank you i don't know i think it was like it was long long rumored and and then like it kind of took me by surprise when i came out so i was just like oh okay that's cool and then i immediately started asking the question why though you know what i mean and um and yeah like it's it's it's kind of seems like it's similar to the the steam boxes you know that came out while back that all that all flopped miserably but now it's it's portable so like i'm just i'm just confused about why yeah why now who's it for um it seems it seems interesting though seems interesting so is it the same concept are you streaming from your pc your pc still needs to be on how does it work um what is it oh it's it's important it has a full-on amd um apu inside of there you know cpu and gpu all built into one that's built on zen 2 so it runs solo then you basically

can access your steam library and play anywhere yeah so you have to download that onto sd card then that like huge yeah well that's the that's the thing that gives me makes me raise a couple eyebrows is um you know it comes with you get in three different flavors right 64 gigabytes 256 gigabytes or 512 gigabytes right and and the 256 512 are basically you know pcie gen 3 you know uh type type ssd card so you know fast fast loading speeds but these days like a game like control or or fortnite or warzone would take a hundred gigs damn near a damn near half of that right so uh it also has an expandable micro ssd slot as well but like the built-in memory just off off the bat is kind of it's trash whoa it's just games these eggs are just so big man you probably only have a couple games on there we talked about this like a while ago

like one of the emerging problems of the game industry isn't like well part of it's getting bigger and better but uh the storage space hasn't really there hasn't been any leaps and bounds of of solving this ongoing issue i mean stadia for a while was that beacon of solving this storage issue but uh now that that's out the window uh because google paused it at year two of year three of their game plan right what have you heard in the grapevine is is there anything fixing this because these games are getting ridiculous like i i it's like a life choice now whether to install warzone or play nba 2k it's like do i want to sacrifice the storage space i mean i'm not living that life you know i got yeah you got plenty yeah i got i got like five terabytes in my in my current machine right but um but you know yeah i i i i think there's a lot of other streaming players that

are out there that are that are probably gonna you know streaming is one way to solve this problem um but as always though like i think i think hard drive space is just going to get continue to get bigger and faster and bigger and faster ssds for cheaper right like i think that's what's going to happen so that's the trajectory and there isn't going to be some awesome compression technology in the near future that's going to help with this well i mean the ps5 has that compression technology is like it's oodle from from rad tools that that does compress down the size of the textures like more more than say on the xbox one right like i think that's what i've done what about the nvidia scaler thing um where it was um i think you've heard of it right it's dlss you're talking about something like that where it uh it is able to kind of hyperpixelate uh lower res and makes it run well that's just that's just the main render target right so it renders a render track at a lower

resolution then it then it upscales it using ai to upscale it right right what is that technology called dllss dlss yeah and then in in on amd cars it's uh what is it called fidelity super resolution or something like that this is what it's called and uh those though is only at run time right it's not right nothing with storage yeah storage yeah yeah yeah ah what are we to do man i feel like we're just on this path of like sure fire death like everyone has to run around with a hard drive basically to play a game i i wish i wish i had that problem yeah well for for podcast listeners let me kind of describe the spec of this to kind of give you an idea so uh well it sounds like you have a better uh idea of what the hardware spec can you kind of list them again too too like what's so impressive about the steam deck that you're seeing versus like a switch and all this

well it's definitely way way more powerful more powerful okay um but it's yeah amd amd apu also the cpu is a gen a zen two four core eight thread twenty two point four to three point five gigahertz cpu um the gpu is eight our dna um so it's rndna it's it's basically an iron dna with uh with two compute units uh one to one point six gigahertz i guess the one to one point six or the two point four to three point five gigahertz whether it's docked or undocked right um 16 gigabytes of ram and then the storage that i talked about before like that's that's it's so small it's a small mini pc like that's that's what it is right you know right off the bat man i think this is awesome like um really well this for for many reasons right i think it's a very smart move for valve to do something like this

um they've always been locked to uh a desktop right uh and uh more so a very niche market nowadays to very high power pc this allows them to expand that business this allows them to make their library basically netflix at this point for games right to to kind of bring awareness back to their library being the best um is it really their library right well i mean like i think out of all the businesses uh steam still is the most versatile i in terms of my games right i have the hugest library in steam out of all my systems uh even when i build up my ps3 or xbox library it's all sitting in a bin right now because you know the hardware it takes a while to set up it takes a lot of room and

most people kind of opt in retiring those things in the garage and you never see them again and so i think the the backlog library is still an issue right a lot of the ps5 xbox series x people are begging to buy the game again uh but the backward compatibility is always like a problem right uh steam from day one i can still play the games uh that i've always wanted to play so in terms of access and not having to buy the game again which i've always thought was really stupid right just to play the remastered version yeah steam still has that over anything else um i think the the systems are kind of trying to fix that with their monthly subscriptions you know you have like the uh the netflix of things but like there is something very awesome about your library that you've had since 10 years ago

that you can pump up and play anytime and this to me is fantastic uh because now i can really dedicate more time to playing these games and not be locked in in my office anymore i think that's one the main reason that at least the the first excitement that i got when i heard about this like yes finally what a solution when you ain't you ain't playing these games on the go you already know you ain't doing that and then but give me uh all that steam guilt man uh why why why don't you just have a switch you know like why get this over i switch like well switch doesn't have third-party games that i like you know control as it's kind of showcasing here like i have a lot like star wars jedi like none of these games that is non-nintendo i love the switch i love the switch the same way i i still love nintendo you know nintendo exclusive games right that's that's their apple ecosystem right so you got to play it on

their hardware but everything else i don't really have a solution like i'm kind of playing between systems and i do hate the fact that i have to retire i have so many good ps1 games ps2 games that i wouldn't mind kind of busting out but uh it's just you know you're retiring old systems all the time all the time and uh i think this is a great solution man this gives you that ability and a lot for for for many who don't have a high power it's a pc have finally like the best i would say the library to choose from in addition to like i would say steam is still very affordable because of their seasonal sales right um yeah like i don't see this being like for somebody who's sitting at home right now saying oh i don't have a more i don't have a very powerful pc so let me i just can't wait for a steam

box right like like those folks already have consoles and most of the games that you know like all the games you're seeing here control and jedi star wars um jedi fall in order yeah you can play those on console right and the console that you're playing on will be more powerful than this thing right because this is a portable right um it is the most is the most powerful portable handheld like thing but but why wouldn't i just play on my console oh now i want it to be portable it's portable something that matters to me yeah i already i already done bought a switch already right so but these games one one of the videos they did for this they showed hades running on this thing right let me see um it's it's one of those screens i can't remember but they show hades and hades is on switch like i'll i could just buy hades on switch right so i don't i don't see well like come on

make sense i it only that's one game but look at basically any game it only makes sense if i already have like you said i already have my steam library i'm a pc gamer i already have my steam library built up and i have the option to play some of these games on the go like if i'm traveling or something like that but like really like i i don't know right and some of the other functionality they're showing of this is like it is a pc you can dock it you could hook it up to a monitor it could run a 4k monitor at 120 hertz right which is crazy right um and so then but i'm like why would i do that you know if if i'm uh a current steam user why the hell would i adopt this thing and and use it as a desktop like i don't let me tell you why old man all right i don't get it let me tell you why old man all right the switch itself was amazing right it

[Music] for a long time nintendo has been trying to solve the issue of like how do we take remove you from your couch right uh through iterations of the wii the wii u even uh we finally got to switch the ultimate i think console system right um the consoles are going with another direction they're trying the streaming thing they're trying to get the app going they're trying to get the mobile phones going uh for the main reason being that they want to extend that experience outside of your the comfort of your home right sure so so nintendo switch made that leap you know i hope they keep going that direction i hope they don't go back to to a home console the dock thing is is the equivalent of the home console the steam library as a business valve right hasn't haven't really made any big noise lately right they've just been continuing up on this momentum and but they are

locked with a very niche market of mostly powerful pc users right but they they also are king on the pc market in terms of third party deals and and anything else they do first person right this to me maybe won't be the turnkey solution of making everything casual like the switch does but i think it is a step in the right direction for them to finally grow from their business of over like a decade right they finally are doing something uh a bigger step than their own vr set because their own vr said yes it could have been it probably is one of the best vr set but that adoption it's still it's still a very hobbyist type of thing this thing will basically allow everybody to enjoy third-party software without having to be tied to you know yes first-party exclusives but like most of the good games you can finally have that access in addition to your switch right the switch is great for

you know hades and stuff like that but we're talking about like the triple a huge games right that nintendo will never sport and like you said it's a lesser hardware so even if they do have that port it's not going to be as strong but including this right i still think out of all the consoles still steam remains to be my oldest library and my most reliant and consistent library for me to ever dig in and play a game that i want to play like that is something that they're finally taking advantage of you know yeah you've had your steam library for a long time you know i mean like a lot of us have right and so we have a lot of stuff in our steam libraries like you know what this would make more sense to me i'd be like oh yes that makes more sense if they were like hey for existing steam users no no they're like hey you can stream from our servers just like stadia

right to a mobile device or to you know your tv or to your steam box or to your pc in a way using using a steam controller like that would make more sense to me i feel like that's probably within that's probably their next business plan to be honest it's like it's right there i really do think they're they're snatching up cloud servers right now and it's as is easy because they experiment that a little bit with the steam link right yeah that's what this was saying they already have steam link which is not great but like if they actually put some effort behind it and everything get some amazon servers in there and it could be like yeah they could they had and they no doubt have the money to to invest in in that right so it's just it just seems odd that they're like you know what we're going to do we're going to make a a handheld that will compete with the switch which is the just i i don't i wouldn't even say of

handhelds right this yeah i mean the switch is its own it's playing in its own field right now no one really competes with the switch they have the nintendo exclusive they've gotten better with the third-party ports but it's not a complete solution for all the big games that we you know other than nintendo stuff right i think this is the the comp complimentary system you know i have a switch i love the switch i would love this to play all the other games that isn't just switches you just got money to be spending that's well 400 bucks is not that bad bro like to me let's let's go let's back up you you of course went to the cheapest price right there's uh there's other uh let's see let's look at the pricing here the the one with the like the middle one it's pretty expensive 529 usd you know what i mean dude nvme

ssd holy [ __ ] man and the freaking mobile 649 like that's like that's a phone not that is a phone all right this is the biggest thing about portable people people get phones and pay monthly over two years you know what i mean so sure but i i think the biggest thing with portable is it is like um if if the mobile market have taught us anything about games it's like that that is where the future is right the ability to play anywhere anytime um that's why this switch was a great system because it it was a hybrid and uh but you know nintendo's nintendo right there they play with their own license mostly uh you know nvidia kind of tried to do their own thing the portable but like you know nvidia is it no come on it's not dude we've seen a lot of these right what was it game gear

yes nvidia shield what else who else who else tried to do this who else is trying to do this and failed not named nintendo right like nintendo owns this space right and like i just i don't see the hardcore pc gamers especially hardcore ones that have custom rigs with all the lights and and cooling loops and all that kind of craziness to spend all the money in their rig um to be like you know what i need i need to get this the steam the steam deck just because i must be the weird one man i'm seeing this and like this is yes you know if you don't buy the ps5 xbox series x you're missing out on a lot of exclusives right yeah yeah they have auto systems man up all the systems if it's xbox if it's xbox it's coming to dc right like you you know that's what i'm feeling like even some exclusives from sony are starting to make its way to pc like horizon zero don i got that on the pc as soon as i saw it so like you also

heard that somebody bought nixie's right and nixie's is uh what did they mean so they they're a well-known pc porting house okay they they do a lot of pc ports of games right so and sony bottom right so okay so they're they're thinking that path already like yeah it seems it seems it's going that direction so that's what i mean right so here i am faced with all the new systems and we'll throw the new switch we can briefly talk about it right slightly upgraded switch no here's something worth talking about all right forget about it right so there's these three systems i haven't owned i don't own any of these uh three new ones just yet right obviously uh the the playstation and the xbox i haven't owned them i'm not i'm not out there waiting to buy them just yet yeah but out of the three to me this is the most attractive for the reason being day one i have all the games like a lot of games i haven't gotten through yet

in addition of seeing that the console exclusives which is the main reason why you buy hardware in the first place it's starting to make its way to steam so i'd much rather have that ability to play on my pc if i want to but also the ability to play and continue if i'm not on the pc i do enjoy just not being like in front of a computer a lot like i when i played when i was playing the last metal gear solid man i was playing that half on uh my tv and half in front of my pc just using the steam like which sucks but when you're close in close quarter it works just fine and i love the ability to be uh able to transition like that and not having to like dedicate yeah a certain spot i think one thing also they have to think about is how like i'm looking at some you know like how these games control how will that track that feel for games that are

well they've been figuring this i've been there like a guy oh how that feel right because you can't just you know like i'm sure so you know every game will just be on there and it'll just kind of work but how it would actually feel how it will actually control um how would perform right um you know it's a linux based operating system that's running like an emulator to emulate the windows stuff uh i can't remember the name but it you know it's on the website but um but like how will that perform for like the really intense games right they also they also are advertising that they there is an sdk so you can tailor your game specifically for the thing but no you know no game studio is going to put the effort into dedicating them until they see the numbers right until they see oh there's something a lot of people and or unless valve pays them to right yeah so um so yeah i think there's a lot of battery life there's a lot of questions still right and like

i can't get two too like i still don't know who's four but i definitely on the chemicals on the ted on the technical side of things like i don't even know like how does it feel right and all of that right so i'm gonna give them the benefit of doubt i mean they dedicated a lot of time uh i forgot what their controller was called um to getting that to feel really awesome and i haven't used it myself but from what i've heard and what i've seen from colleagues or just general review it was one of the best controllers [Music] it was a closer uh hybrid of the pc and a traditional controller versus all the control it actually accommodate pc users i'll still say i'll still say that controller flopped yeah it flopped because because most pc because most pc folks just use the xbox controller right or oral dual sense or whatever like they they're not like oh man i

can't wait to get that steam controller yeah but you gotta see it as a r d for for this right here this is what it was going towards all right they just start piecemealing it so they can build the ultimate system like out of the three man this this looks very attractive to me because day one i have a lot of games for it already and uh it feels like a lot of future games will make its way to steam so i'm like this is the ultimate system here and you know what's cool if i buy a game for this it again goes back to my pc i'm not going to lose it i can dig it up i can uninstall i can install it that that is just killer for me um because i have so i had so many places and systems that i went through xbox systems and i will never touch them because the hassle of getting out of bin to set it up it's just not worth it bro i rather just get the remastered version at some point you know well that's well that's why some folks are all about streaming right because there's like no

set up but um but like you once figured that out yeah so that means tomorrow that means tomorrow morning i will i will see you like first in line reserving your i am going to celebrate myself yes you you will you will drop you will drop 500 bones and 500 i'll go for the ultimate mother thing with this thing honestly yeah i was honestly gonna say i'm just gonna say it straight up yeah man it's ugly it's not good looking [Laughter] it is kind of 80-ish sharp rectangle-ish [Laughter] it doesn't have the smooth ergonomics it looks like a game gear or what was it yeah game gear yeah but you know what man

it's a diamond in the rough right the concept is so strong i i truly believe like obviously it's going to sell out right you know the limited supply they only made they're only going to make like 10 of them but yeah yeah sure it's always going to sell out the strongest portable all right stronger than any phone switch by far sure in day one man you have all the games that you need uh i have so many games i know anybody who's a steam user have so many games they haven't gotten across uh for that price it freaking is awesome uh you know imagine buying a traditional system you you're dropping 60 bones for a new experience right uh and it takes a while to to get several of that experience day one and you know i don't know how many games you got you know we're in the hundreds right probably uh that's pretty cool

that's pretty cool yeah uh but that it's just a general idea where i can build up a library and never be afraid of not having anymore that's just the power of steam man 10 years ago steam strong right everything else in a bin and that's pretty sad yeah here's the other thing about building up your library here's the crazy thing so this thing is just a pc right it is a pc right basically i love it you can actually you could actually run the epic store on it and install epic games even better that's why epic uh i did see i did see a little tweet uh what what did tim sweeney say tim sweeney uh so so how much is so it is gonna be able to run like it's os and stuff like what what's the interface like i didn't really dig into that too much well it's through that emulation right like it's running the games through through emulation that runs without the linux right so i

believe that any windows app would be able to run on it so here's tim sweeney right the uh the guy who hated steam to start the epic store says that it was uh it was very interesting an amazing move by valve quoted by tim sweeney uh he said it will allow users to run pretty much whatever they want and the whole thing runs with the pre-installed team os with windows so like it required for you to use that you need a steam account but but it is a pc right so you could install any third-party software yeah so it's an open platform where users are free to install software for their own yeah yeah and it says and operating systems which i think is kind of kind of crazy right that dude that's amazing so if you have all those free games from the epic store now you can play it too like dude it is it is the most open system out of all the consoles well while it's still far from clear how easy it will be

to install third party stuff on the steam deck or how well epic game store games would run if at all it's a notable stab at openness in the market characterized by walled off ecosystems right um like yeah like gabe gabe is against it's it's kind of weird because yeah game is against like you know walled off ecosystems but yet steam is kind of a walled off ecosystem but uh but um so it's it's cool that you could do that on the steam deck but like again who is this for like uh you know hey guys a quick word from our sponsors for this episode gamesboost42 you guys building an app and trying to get it to launch off in the mobile market is one of the hardest things to do i should know i used to work at a mobile company a lot of it has to do with getting people to try your game more so than how great your game is but if your game is already great

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front of the computer they're at a crossroads of what system i should be getting and they're trying they're holding their 500 600 at hand in cash and they're trying to put it in a most future proof system this is future proof sure don't don't don't they'll they'll release a part two or whatever right but you can still play your games right you can still play the games that you bought in the last 10 years and you know what the next 10 years of games will also be available when we're all super old right so dude that that kind of guarantee the the the behemoths of xbox and playstation can't even promise that the switch systems you know when switch 2 comes out can't promise you that it's an old problem that have never been addressed there's

some fancy some fancy technology out there hoping to overturn that with the steam streaming and and and stuff like that but i don't think that's a great solution because you don't own any of that product so what about the stuff that i've owned right you can't you don't really you don't own the stuff on steam either like you have a false sense of ownership that's like tomorrow but i'm not paying ten dollars like netflix to keep my steam going so that that is a huge that's a huge difference man that's huge it's basically a share drive it's a higher risk because you aren't paying a monthly fee it's a higher risk what risks and i don't pay a monthly fee we talking about no you don't pay a monthly fee so it's a higher risk that's what i'm saying because with moves like this between you and steve right sure you just have to trust that steam will continue to provide to you the game of course of course but look at the deals that we're dealing with now like all those playstation games xboxes where are they right where are they they're in your bin

you're never playing with them you're never going to play with them i bought anno 1800 on pc and then they got the deal with epic and then they removed it from the steam store and some new people couldn't download it but because i already bought it they let me still access it like i mean there you go you're gonna have you can still have this problem of content ownership regardless of right but this this this today yeah this problem with content ownership is by far a better deal than uh the other side of the fence right because the streaming i think it's like a nice rental service right but um the fact that you don't have to pay for steam is great the fact that steam is still kicking and coming up with new ideas is very hopeful like gabe has no reason he has no reason well he has no reason to do anything right is this innovation this is what it looks like

200 people at steam rolling in money every day every morning right when they clock in have no reason to be creative ever again right it's a small company pumping billions every month right no reason to do anything but here they are all right within the last two years we get a new vr headset we got a new half-life you know we got promises of three new oh half-life alex yeah yeah it's very good but like three new three three ips in the pipes and then and then another attempt of hardware which i feel is more attractive than all the other consoles at this point right because all those games are eventually moving to pc right so steam is still king in addition to what what's happening and what's blossoming over at the epic game store right those guys are doubling down right 300 mil last year right in terms of losses to get exclusives to give them away i have quite a library over there as

well now i can ask access them as as well and they are forever you know within a click right that that is something that these two stores uh have been able to provide that both microsoft and sony are still playing ketchup right that's huge man i don't know anybody that that is able to do this right now this feels like old man stuff quite frankly i i think i think it would i would be more impressed if it was like yo valve's discreet like i said before about streaming service and like well i think that is the next thing is what we didn't talk about was um the weight the weight of it probably like the people done that kind of like they're like basically if you took your switch and put your phone on top of it is it that heavy it's about that heavy right which which like some people already get restrained from the switch so and heavier handheld and then it has trackpad where you get easier

man i i'm getting carpal tunnel just thinking about it right so oh my goodness yeah it's not meant for the week bro it's not meant for the week and this is for the hardcore gamers okay i need to lift more weights i guess they need to pump some more oh my god i'm sure it's not as heavy as everyone's making it out to be i don't see it man don't see it i don't think it's gonna be a crazy nintendo switch seller right i think it's very very particular you know you're not gonna see any ads about it at all right i think it's very experimental still but um why why are we doing this like just because we've got money to burn like why though just because they didn't extend their lifeline man steam is probably heading to a a uh a direction where you know a lot of these third party are moving over the epic or having a lot more choices right there's only so much that val can make on their own exclusive that's why they're starting to but it's going to take a while to build up that library again

they're probably software you know are are uh have their own libraries as well so if you're in steam shoes you need to do something you just have to make noise again right this this obviously will create a buzz and excitement because they do have a competitive edge they do have a competitive edge which is relying on personal libraries that have been building up for for most people five to ten years right yeah like like i i have a steam library i play some games all the time and i'm just like why nah why why is this happening because you like being glued on your seat such as that like i'm even thinking about the like the games that i would play on my pc like okay let's let's think about a game i'll play my pc like sieve like six yeah i and six is actually i think seven six is actually on switch as well like

you play six and switch but um but anyway but like if i was to play civ six i don't wanna play c6 on a portable like i don't wanna have to have the mouse controls that's horrible just docking bro that's a pc i already got my pc right so like i don't i don't see i don't see the point i think it's cool that you could dock it i think it's cool you can do 4k at 120 hertz like when it's stocked i think it's i think it's cool that like it has a pretty beefy cpu gpu and then memory and all that kind of stuff like like i'm i'm not hating on any of that at all i just i just don't see who is this targeted at it started so far what i've learned is it's targeted at brandon fan like that's only one person bro like i don't see the cool guys the guys can see the potential the future yes those type of guys the brain fans don't i don't i don't i don't see it i just don't um and like i'm willing to be proven wrong

like i totally want to be proved wrong with this right but like i got the popcorn out i'm just waiting [Music] i i i think the general consensus box i mean they are they do have a history a lot of hardware that that becomes forgettable but like um i think the general consensus is probably that way to half and half right some people are excited most people are kind of playing the weight game and see what it's all about um it is lacking that marketability right i don't think if any of us see that someone's using it we'll be curious but it's not going to be a huge buzz seller right yeah um i see somebody using i'm like what is that big ass thing you're using oh it's oh it's a scene it's very niche but i think it's just one future way to make it super attractive man like you said as as long as soon as they build that stream ability where you're not downloading anything

right i'm sure i'm sure out the box or probably support steam link i can imagine that it's on the same wi-fi network beyond that like now you don't have to be on the wi-fi network you know you just be on i don't know what what is their network do they have 5g capabilities what was going on with that no i think this is wi-fi right there's there's no i don't think there's i don't think there's actually cellular network yeah it's just wi-fi okay so it's only wi-fi but i think that uh they have a long uh plan for this um they're just trying to get into people's pocket right and um they're trying to basically you know people who weren't on steam before uh give them a reason to uh now they don't need a beefy pc anymore they can just use this and play all the games that they want

i wouldn't be surprised i wouldn't be surprised if valve at some point comes out with valve access you know some kind of uh service where you can rent uh and i think uh i think if if anybody were to do it they can right talk to these uh developers and be like hey here's a percentage you know for 15 percent uh give us the ability to kind of stream your game for this month or something instead of 30. here's but here's the thing right we in this talk we've come up with better ideas what they could have released instead of what they released this is the first step of that i think i think this is the the gateway towards that future like these type of moves that i'm seeing let's let's be honest here valve has been a sleeping giant for like seven years basically since left 4 dead 2 right they have done [ __ ] yeah they get dota they have like

these little like card games but like in terms of the type of stuff they were pumping up before yeah but in terms of like all the the what there used to be right they just were sleeping and hibernating and suddenly the last three years have seen more activity uh than i've seen the last seven years so they are building up to something here uh they are making maybe limited supply of this but they're they're experimenting with some theories uh to unveil like their big megalith plan right i really do feel like they're building up to something at this point you know you get the vr headset you got this i would really put it out there that there's no way that these are separate ideas only right there is some kind of thing that they're trying to make here an ecosystem with of course steam being the center of it but like having these hardware hardware of

all cases like who would have thought they've been going the hardware this hard right um i really do think that there's a lot of smart people here uh there that they're they're really building up to something uh that is gonna be pretty amazing i don't know what yet i mean you know the experimentation of steam link this you know their continuous uh investment in this industry when all they needed to be is just become a best buy for online right they don't really need to do anything beyond that but they're still doing it uh it gives me some kind of hope that you know they they're one day they're gonna have that killer thing uh and all this is a tribute contributing to that unveiling is how i feel about it yeah it is odd i agree with you this is random [ __ ] this is a day before launch right there was no build-up yeah they're just dropping it it's it's

you could reserve it tomorrow yeah the day before reservation yeah you don't get it until like this december or whatever yeah that's odd that's weird right uh completely left field um it's been rumored for a while but uh it wasn't it wasn't it's not clear what their trajectory of as a company is just yet like steam as a company they're still private right and um because they've been sleeping so long they kind of let other competitors uh kind of play catch up a bit right and so now it's kind of uh the problems in the on the front door now now they're doing something about it um my question is do you think it's too late like do you think whatever they're planning epic game store is gaining ground but it's nowhere near you know obviously to where steam is just yet um

what is like if i were to can you over the key right gabe kind of retires what would be the move for steam if they want to grow beyond where they are right what beyond were they yeah what is it i think this the streaming stuff is a good way of getting more like maybe they're trying to look at this as a way of expanding the user base but like i like like who is picking this up right like i just don't get it and but uh but if you're doing streaming stuff and and all of that like yeah i could see that definitely growing the user base right um i think even uh devoting even though it doesn't make any money and we make way more money not making games i think like continuing to invest in actually making games would also help a bit um just i would say that they did do [ __ ] of their name and their brand right something magical did happen with half-life alex right i didn't see such a big interest in vr headset uh you know until

obviously the quest two like it was a big uptick and still to the very day i i can't really name a quest two game that was as buzzworthy right as half-life alex at least with the with that community right uh and we haven't heard anything since really besides half-life alex that was like you gotta play this game oh yeah your life is beat saber i don't understand saber's old it's not it's old it's still dope as hell though oh my god it's not the type of game that i want to play yeah it's like a different flavor right it's i've been on here so many times i've been people don't know that i would beat saber fans i've been hearing enough talk about beat saber but yeah you're it's the only fan still yeah i'm not the only one you know that's not true like i have a vr headset that's collecting dust right i love alex i still have to finish it but um it was a huge alternate universe perspective for me a game changer

uh i do there's something about this i still think is very attractive it's just you know i think if anything time is so limited now right as i'm getting older and portable has a i'm really bad i don't know what it is i have a phone it's capable just like most but for some reason i don't really play mobile games right i have no interest i'm not looking out for anything i know there's first person shooters now on it even then i'm like i don't want to use my phone it's just as a game device it's just it still feels like a step down right uh the controls i'll say call of duty mobile on call of duty mobile is a very very good i'm sure it's really good i'm sure and i'm not downplaying obviously a lot of mobile phones absolutely like i i hate virtual sticks yes and and it's baffling how good that is right like i was just like wow this they put a lot of work into this yeah that's what happens when you have

billions of dollars but like even with that it's just it is a downgrade right from using controller to uh to virtual controls always there's just no replacement that's why the switch is still very awesome it's like the best hybrid of everything um but it's very limited in its library so that's the in terms of like me want to play outside other games right outside of nintendo and something like i mean like people played legend of zelda for hundreds of hours like i don't understand like you know what i mean like when you have you have that and you have mario and you have i have gta v like why do you need to play anything else because you also know you also let those games just like personal opinion but i think a lot of people agree with me those games are some of the most well designed they're very good and that's why everyone should have a switch right why do you need why you need anything else like why are we even talking about limited life oh my god why experience anything new

ever again right well you're asking such a dumb question man of course everybody wants to experience everything you know if someone says red dead redemption 2 is awesome i'm not going to come back with saying well legend of zelda is awesome too i don't need red dead too no i'm going to say this i'm going to say this if you had money right and you only had enough money to buy one thing that's xbox one yeah playstation or a switch like i mean it should be the switch yeah i agree there's there's just no question you you should buy the switch it should be the switch uh for the fact that yes it has great games but the portable portion of it is just unmatched right it's just it's just no question it's just great hardware yeah that's why i'm turning to this this is the answer to the switch for all the other games that we like yeah this is what this is lacking though is the form factor this has the game well it has a lot of games but it doesn't have nintendo games

so you know you feel what i'm saying here i'm saying what i'm saying is you got two pockets bro it looks like dry and it looks like trash and it's it's heavy right like you know i don't know man i just don't lift some weights and stop the yapping man what are you talking about of course if you want power in your hands dude yeah power power gets in your hands power gets heavy all right is this is this a is this a nintendo power glove commercial [Laughter] bro if they if they if they somehow figure how this like can um attach to their vr set man i'm gold [Laughter] that'll be awesome because wouldn't that work you think what do you think what if they want to take on quest 2 right i got this honking little thing i wear as a backpack right i put on their stupid index right

now i can play vr games like this is what i'm saying man they're building a ecosystem of hardware that eventually will talk to each other that's what they're doing right there's no way they're not doing that the fact that it's on the linux system right the software is already there right now they just need a wire for something they hate windows that's true yeah right but what i'm saying is it's it's flexible to to like like anybody if they haven't done it already people can hack that right if i have an index that needs to be connected to a pc now i can play my vr games now right wouldn't that be the case with this like i mean like it is it could become like if you put it in a different form factor it could become like yeah a puck like like the puck in uh for magic leap right magically the thing you clip on right the glasses were attached to um it could be something like that yes potentially maybe well don't what what are these like they

obviously have like usbc and that's that's usbc port and microssd boards and like it's just it's i'm telling you man i'm putting it out there man they are this is going to be the center hardware we got to really go back right why the hell are they in hardware right they're a software company right um let's look at microsoft right let's go back a little bit of history they're they're they're a software company first and now they came out with all these tablets or uh or or i mean mainly tablets and and now uh hardware in terms of xbox right but their main problem is they they lack the uh uh the vision of what apple is about where they everything talk to each other right everything rely on each other oh we talk about microsoft yeah microsoft lacked the apple cohesiveness like i mean no i mean that was true of microsoft maybe 10 years ago but today yeah today

they're they're they're trying they're always five ten years behind apple and everything right no but like today every today every time you see a microsoft presentation a microsoft ad um they show how everything works with like between your phone the surface a piece right but what i'm saying yeah what i'm saying is they took that from apple of course they are apple through through like like these days but they're not quite there yet right um apple is leaps and bound ahead um because day one they thought about it like that and that's why even as a pc android user like i see the app watch them like i kinda wanna i kind of want that but that means i would have to go get an iphone to make it work completely right yeah uh and then you know they got their ibook store and all this stuff right um windows is still like the ugly stepbrother right they

haven't figured it out completely you have this tablet that looks like a pc they have this microsoft business that is booming but uh you know windows and generally don't acknowledge that yet really right hardly they don't really acknowledge the xbox as hard as if you talk to every windows user not everyone knows about the xbox is what i'm saying or cares for it i mean the xbox app is standard in windows sure it's there much like other crap on windows that you never click on right the great thing about apple is like here's everything that's included as an apple user it's like right front and center and sure like they're very good at that they can be marketing presentation stuff but like i i mean i think i think microsoft has made huge huge leaps and bounds but still still way behind right in the race right enormous so i think i think and i believe valve is already setting this

up from the ground up they just haven't revealed these devices talking to each other i mean because the quest too like think about it man if i were to look at the industry right now this is probably what they did they look at the industry right now hey mobile is awesome but it's separate from pc culture and console culture vr is awesome but for the longest time you know it's not portable right quest 2 is cool but it's lacking it's doing better but it's not there yet in terms of i can play all the pc vr headset they must be looking at this like dude we could we get this ugly piece of [ __ ] out here right we straps we strap it as a backpack we got this index that that we love we strap that onto it man it's going to be the ultimate console it's the ultimate console oh like i you telling me i can't connect my index to this or my my vr headset no i'm going to say like this again

in this in this little conversation the quest 2 can connect to this in in this conversation that we're having we have had a better idea i am giving them the benefit of doubt that this is on their blueprint of uh of taking over the world man i i really do feel they have the strongest library out of everybody which is just pretty much all the games right uh the longest sustainability right those li that library has not changed for me at all i like i am the most proud of that library versus all the games that i ever get gathered up like i am able to pull up a game that i love 10 years ago in my steam library and have my kid play with it which is like a huge uh accomplishment in my mind like i can't do that i i tried it with my ps2 i actually bought a ps1 system like one of those classic ones where they kind of refurbished and made the new one right the and made it smaller

i set it up and connected to my son's computer it's like hey man these are the library games that i grew up with that i think he can benefit from right just play him out he played two games within an hour and said i don't want to play this anymore and went back to playing pc games because the the the hardware was a [ __ ] uh putting the cd in and waiting for the load up was annoying right your date you're basically busting out an eight track next next to your spotify system yeah these are also like very not accessible right right they are lower class sure but like if it was on my steam yes aside from dealing with the bad graphics uh and whatever it's still a solid game yeah you can still yeah yeah but like i could probably play final fantasy 7 right right now on on steam right i'm not sure

if the final fantasy 7 but like as an example i would still have a very good experience free from hardware limitations right and um that that that's what they got going for them at that library they're not doing a good job like they're doing a one-liner right but that should have been their market abilities like hey we've been part of your life for the last 10 years so the next 10 years uh we're excited to build this journey with you again right they they need to really celebrate that man i don't think that that has enough emphasis on how great steam is it's like i've i switched so many pcs we've upgraded so many times right but our library have always been there like that's huge man like they they if anything the the the the the crime committed here is their marketing team all right their market teams suck right they're not uh

doing a good job of why like i i would have took the angles like heart this hardware is nothing it's all about your steam library right they should have took that angle of why this hardware supports your steam library it's like your steam library is not locked to your location anymore you can finally take your steam library on the go right and what is this new library it's every freaking game that you've ever owned since the beginning of steam do you know how else i take my steam library on the go what i just said windows a windows surface or a laptop oh my god it's not the same man this is not the same and and i have a controller and i have a controller that oh my god why don't you just connect your old nintendo wii to your your laptop all right and have all these wires right and you're like oh this is my new portable system you're such an old guy dude

you you you have a contraption like ghostbusters and you're like this is my portable computer look it's the same thing no man it's not portable in the in the pure sight of someone playing on their laptop it's like 10 000 wires it's big and hulky oh my god yeah it's not the same i don't know i i i agree with you that this isn't like i don't think it's gonna blow up huge right they're only making it limited which also means that it's only for hardcore it's experimental right it is it really is but um i think they're just getting data at this point right they're getting data and gonna build this ultimate system which is gonna be vr and portable right um and something more powerful than the quest 2. quest 2 is great i think it's a great direction but the only problem with the crest 2 is that

you're basically very committed to vr right and there are a lot of games that both you and i enjoy that is not vr and so um you know i think the playstation is the closest to kind of solving that issue where they have a very good ps vr uh hardware very good system and in terms of library very good library for their vr games but the main issue with that is it's still not portable now we need an ultimate system uh of course the mobile is super portable but it's lacking all the benefits of a console the switch is probably the closest out of everything because it is portable the controls are great uh and you know it really promotes lan parties really well right it's awesome um yeah out of everything i think is the closest next to the switch combining everything i'm telling you man as soon as they release like a usbc

index set they're like hey check this out plug it to this thing you can play vr on the go what's up they probably are doing that right now i'm pretty sure it's ready day one i mean i think i think you give them a whole lot of credit and and we should all i gotta say i say it again i i got my popcorn now oh okay i'm gonna be sporting this the next time i visit like oh my god you're missing out it's like oh i wish i was you like six months ago he's like yeah i know i'll be more than willing when you when you buy it to try it out i'd be more than willing but i'll i'll let you be the guinea pig all right i'll be the cool kid first all right he can deal with my crumbs uh but yeah i mean that's pretty much it we went a full hour i mean uh it was the most exciting that i've seen the last month of course there's a lot of other news but uh gdc is around the corner i'm sure we're going to hear a lot more of this stuff

um which probably makes sense why they're announcing it now because gdc is next week so man i didn't even know gc said no one knows that ggc is next week yeah but uh i'm i'm willing to bet we're gonna hear a lot more right so i'm gonna say it here right if you see a stupid vr set connecting to this thing i called it i i think that that'll be fantastic man if i can play my pc games or my vr games which is the feature here um that that would be i'll be so happy with my purchase it's so great to work yeah weren't you a vr hater for like the longest time like i don't understand i love vr man i i hated the fact that you needed to do a lot that set up right the future is the less out of the better right this is why that's why it's important for the quest well that's why the quest is so dope right quest is dope because yes you can play your pc

stuff but you're still hooked to the pc like you want to play the hardcore yeah if you want to play half off alex yeah no i can't well well the half like i was not on the quest yes you have to do tethered nonsense right but um but like this is what i mean like everybody is all into their exclusive and steam is the only open thing right i need to just have a system play all the games that i want to play like i don't want to be tied or walled off of the hardware anymore it's so old bro we're in the we're in the life of cross playing right this is the new generation right these walls set up by these companies need to be broken down right so let's break it down together and i think valve is the leader in this right now because they can show even though it's ugly that they can make hardware and software uh out of everything yeah i don't know if they show their keeping card like they shown they can yeah they can physically

make it but yeah yeah that's well that's about it all right all right well i want to thank you ray as always uh for coming on to the roundtable news and discussing the last hour about the greatest news of all which is the valve the steam deck uh but without further ado i want to thank you for for all the listeners out there thank you ray for coming on and as always you can find ray uh at his twitter handle uh at water ass water oz uh w-a-d-a-r-a-s-s check the link description for information and give them your peace of mind tell them what's up why why he's behind the curve again just be as honest as i did well i don't always say it again because i'm usually right but anyway yeah well thank you for coming on there all right no problem

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