Roblox's car crash interview and Ubisoft's curious Tencent deal | Week in Mobile Games podcast

[music] [music] Hello and welcome to the pocket gamer.biz podcast week in mobile games where we discuss the week's news and provide some insights. I'm Craig Chapel, head of content at pocket gamer.biz. With me as ever, Aaron Ashel, our news editor. How you doing, Aaron? What have you been up to?
Yes, doing well, thank you. Um, been a fairly quiet week for me this week, actually. no crazy concerts or anything to report on. Um I think mainly um I've still been playing through the new Pokemon like Legends EA which
I'm somehow managing to kind of make it last. I always used to fly through them as a kid but it's been a month now and I haven't finished it yet which is good in some ways you know making it making it last. Um
is it good? I think you you discussed before I think you maybe weren't sure.
Yeah. So, it's it's better than I was

expecting. Um, to be fair, I'm enjoying it a lot more than Scarlet and Violet, the last game um in 2022. I didn't really have very um high opinions of that one. Oh,
like it it was just very glitchy and I don't think it the game design was very good to be honest because like that was an open world game but everything still had like a normal level curve and so you could say well that makes some areas more challenging but effectively like you could go to the eighth gym first but you know it's a turnbased game based on maths so you're just going to get destroyed cuz you're going with like level 10 and they're going to have level, you know, whatever the last, you know, it's supposed to be the last bit of the game. And then if you decide later like, oh, I'll go and do the first gym now, like that's going to have the level 10s while you're in the 50s or something. So, it's just it was like they just took the rails off but didn't build the game around it being open world. So, I didn't really like that.

It's kind of pointless it being open world in some
Yeah, cuz you still basically have to do it in the correct order, but just now you have to Google what the order is. And I presume you still need like the badges to unless I got rid of this ages ago, but the badges to be able to have certain level Pokemon as well, like so. Yeah. So, the wild Pokémon also scale up to the different areas. But if you manage to catch something that's way above where you're up to and you don't have enough gym badges, it won't listen anyway. So, so yeah, I didn't really like that one. So, I'm pleased this one. It's a lot more structured. like it you have side quests and things, but it's in by no means an open world game. Like there's actually a pretty good story to it so far. And it's the rails are kind of there a lot more that you have to follow, but it's just it actually feels more like a cohesive game.
I guess I I think it sounds good that they tried though in a way. I I mean not that that makes it a good game, but

yeah, it was it was like a refreshing experiment, but I think it would have just been so much better if it's like if it just check how many gym badges do you have? If you got like three, here's the level of the next thing you're going to go and do.
Yeah.
Rather than just, as I say, it's basically a normal Pokémon game, but there's just no barriers to stop you from going to the wrong place. I say some people have defended that of like, well, it just gives you the freedom to try and do things in the wrong order. Like Breath of the Wild let you go and fight monsters that were way too strong for you.
Yeah.
Which I did immediately,
of course.
But I think it actually works there because you can like learn the attack patterns and dodge stuff and gradually get through it. But I say something turnbased where like you are going to take a hit every turn in Pokémon.
Yeah.
If they're like 50 levels higher than you, you're just going to lose. I think the leveling is always quite difficult. So I um like in Oblivion, Elder Scrolls Oblivion, I think that was uh the world would kind of scale with you.

[clears throat]
So you level up everywhere gets all the monsters get more difficult to beat.
Yeah.
Or more powerful anyway. And I hated that actually.
All right.
Cuz it I think it actually broke some of the missions as well. Like if you happen to go cuz it's again it's open world so but if you happen to do like one of the earlier like side quests I think it would just sort of break can't remember the example like a farm or something and goblins turn up whatever it was whereas in Skyrim I kind of I preferred that cuz it didn't do that I don't think it just had a proper leveling system and so you would have the areas that you go to that are difficult or or easy. Fallout [clears throat] New Vegas. I guess it's I mean it's common, right? But like I remember Fallout New Vegas, it's like that. You turn, it's like you turn left, it's going to be you're going to have a really bad time,
you turn right and it's more like
they sort of guide you, but you can just go off and do whatever. But I see your point though. It's like
what's in a turn-based game about

catching Pokemon and you're going to die in turn-based battles and you can't use the Pokemon that you catch. Yeah.
What's the point? H. So, and so I think like it was a good idea. Maybe the next games will be open world again and they'll do more like level scaling. Anyway,
just a reminder, you mentioned Breath of the Wild. So, obviously at the start, I think it's quite clever cuz they say like they're almost like challenge you. It's like
don't go over there, I think, or something right at the beginning. So, naturally, you go to the horrible bits, which I actually fits really well with the sort of oppressive world. I went to Ganon's castle, managed straight away. Is it Ganon's castle? Is the the castle?
Yeah.
And I I got in and then I scaled the whole way up. It took ages obviously cuz I'm I I have I'm so weak.
I scaled all the way up and turns out if you get to the top, you then fight Ganon, but you fight one after the other all of his forbes that you would fight throughout the game.
Yeah. And you presumably had like some

sticks.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you pick up like some stuff while you're up there, you know, if you can kill some enemies, but it's like kind of like one hit kill kind of situation. It will just like you have like three hearts or whatever. [laughter] I managed to beat like two or three of the forms and then there was one it was just like this is impossible. It can't be done. But I feel like I could have completed the game.
Yeah.
I thought that was kind of a nice little thing that they give you. Like if you do get up there, it's not like nothing happens. you get something for your hard work, I guess, which is death, right? I guess as for myself, shout out to video games industry memo. I was at by George Osborne was at his uh mixer yesterday, which was fun. Nice to meet some new people and catch up with some old folks in the UK games industry scene. So, I had a great time. All right, a few shoutouts or one big shout out I guess really is Pocket Gamer Connects London is on January 19th and 20th. You can catch some deals at the

moment. If you're going to go, so if you want to grab a discount, please do. And we are about to announce the top 50 UK game makers list, which we did for the first time last year. We'll bring it back this year. here. It's very much like our top 50 uh mobile game makers, but it focuses on UK game makers and all platforms. So, keep an eye out and if you want to be considered for entry, please do uh fill out the form and uh maybe you'll be in it. Right. So, we got a few bits of news. So, last week we we had expected this news. It might even break while we were recording last week. But uh the the thing that happened was Ubisoft delayed their financials and everyone was wondering why this would happen and it took about a week to um to get any information on it. And when Ubisoft finally released its financials, I think it was on the Friday. It was like it was like an accounting problem. This is like speculation. It could be had to do with Tencent. Maybe the deal's collapsed. Maybe Tencent's going to buy it for some reason. and that caused a

delay with their financials. Although that I guess that would have been odd in itself. So the company's newly appointed panel of auditors asked the firm to restate his 2025 accounts to recognize a meaningful partnership deal. So said this led to the company not complying with its leverage covenant ratio under certain existing financing agreements. Uh this being addressed with funds from the 10-centent deal which is now closed. Ubisoft resumed trading on the stock exchange released its financials. So it was kind of like bit more boring than I think everyone thought it would be. But I guess the other news is we've spoken about it before but uh Tencent has kind of completed has completed its investment 1.16 billion euros into into Ubisoft. So that kind of carves out a whole new subsidiary which is called Vantage Studios which is still majority owned I guess by Ubisoft I think. So 10 cent specifically has a 26.32% economic stake in Vantage Studios while

Ubisoft retains full control and consolid uh full control of the entity. Both companies signed a shareholders agreement based on the terms outlined in March. And this entity basically has their top IP which is Assassin's Creed, Far Cry and Tom Clansancy. Tom Classy's Rainbow 6. the fact this is part of a new structure so there will be other parts like this. I don't know what they would house. I guess technically there are still other IPs like rabbits etc. It feels a bit on the one hand I guess it's technically it's good for Ubisoft because it gives them more money to make their games as we all know they they've struggled somewhat over the past couple of years but I guess if you're one of the studios it's kind of worrying especially if you're not part of this new subsidiary. The thing that I'm still mostly confused about is this all see like this whole restructuring etc. It all just seems like a really strange way to stop 10 cent having to make an acquisition. So in u under French law if you acquire a 30% or more stake in a

company you have to make a mandatory takeover bid. So before this or currently I don't have it in front of me now but uh 10 cent owns a just under I think 10.5 sorry a 9.5% stake in Ubisoft in this new subsidiary as I said they now own a 26 is it 32% stake in Vantage Studios. I I don't know how they work this out feel it feels like it's above it should otherwise be above 30%. So, they've done some weird sort of accounting stuff and I I I guess it has passed muster uh under the law because that deal has has gone through, but it's kind of a strange one. I guess ultimately it it's probably good news for 10 cent, right? Because at some point they they could just well own all of this IP and it feels like it's going to move in that direction, but we'll see. The Gilamos have not wanted to relinquish control at all ever. So, I

guess we'll see what the future holds there. But I hope for better times ahead for everyone at Ubisoft. Any thoughts, Aaron?
Mainly, as you said, like it was the it was the anticipation of what the delay was for. It's like last week and you kept checking, you know, is it out yet? It's going to drop while we're doing the podcast. And then it was like we we kind of wrapped up at about 10 to 6, I think, last week. I bet it's going to be, you know, by 6:00 it's going to come out.
Yeah.
Doing all this speculating of what it could be. It's like it didn't happen at 6 PM. It's like, well, it has to be by like 9:00 a.m. tomorrow. And then I think it was at like half 8 or Yeah, half 7, half 8:30 UK time was the investor call
and I think it was around 7:30ish was when the financials were released.
So really like quite close up to
quite time. So it's like, oh, you know, this, you know, this could be big news. And then, yeah, it's like it's just an accounting thing.
Yeah. Right. So, Aaron, what's the next

story?
Yeah. So, next from me is a Roblox story, which is that Roblox's CEO, David Bizuki, had quite a heated debate, I'd say, about um child safety. This was on podcast interview. Um, and they kind of pressed him a bit about child safety stuff cuz obviously there's been quite a lot of I guess criticism and concern around child safety with Roblox and lawsuits and things. So yeah, they they asked him about it basically and um it was just it was quite a tense interview of just him kind of obviously, you know, he said stuff like um child safety is like enormously important. Roblox, you know, they want to preempt risks. And he did talk about things like their new AI, like facial detection stuff that they're going to be rolling out, which is supposed to basically categorize players by age so that like adults don't end up talking to children, but as well as

covering what they are doing. Yeah, it was just quite a um fractious conversation of um talking over each other a bit, like interrupting each other. Um as a part where like the New York Times asked about predators like navigating filters and like getting kids off Roblox. Yes, there were parts where basically he said like he just didn't want to comment on it. they raised like so Hindenburg research last year um released a report which accused Roblox of compromising child safety rather than explaining ways in which they were wrong. He just said that like Hindenburg went out of business quote for some reason. And then he asked whether like the interviewers had done their own research or if they were just like quoting someone else's. And then they kind of said like oh you know we can tell this is you know frustrating you. And then he said I'm not frustrated. It it was just it was a bit of a strange one to watch really.

Yeah.
Like Yeah. I don't know if I'd quite go as far as to say he was dismissive of the concerns, but just it clearly like he a few times as well said like he wanted to talk about other stuff and he thought he'd been invited on to talk about other things and then I think the interviewer said like well like it had been discussed that this would be one of the topics
and just overall yeah you're a bit of like an awkward watch really.
I think some people have been saying this is like a like a gotcha from the journalist they just got in there so they could catch me out etc. But as you said like in the interview and also uh it's worth people checking out Casey Newton's newsletter that went out after this. It's his podcast as well and he and he's just like yeah we we reached out when we reached out to the PRs we asked if we could get him on the show and talk about child safety and AI basically. It's not a gotcha. It's this is what we were going to do and he came on the show and then he didn't really want to talk about it too much and he obviously wasn't prepared. Now there's I guess it's whether the PRs I guess

prepared him for that interview. Maybe maybe they did, right? We don't know. But he seemed unprepared or just didn't want to ask them. But it's just like it's such an important topic that he has to be prepared. And if he'd have g actually better answers and had been so combative, I bet this se we wouldn't all be sat here talking about it, right? He would have answered these questions pretty like easily. I'm not saying it's an easy discussion, but you know, had he been prepared and frankly Roblox deals with this every day, they should they should be able to answer these questions. It wouldn't have been such a big deal. It's just the way he came across. And it does come across, and this is what Casey Newton touches upon in his newsletter really of like someone, even if this is not what he meant, it does come across as someone that didn't actually really care. It's like, yeah, it happens. But it's like okay you are running a massive platform of like say 100 million users whatever. Yeah. And and yeah there are going to be bad actors there right but fact but the fact is is that people are looking

closely at this. It's been banned in a few countries and I know they're doing a lot but they've just got to be on it in in their coms about it and make sure they put across how much they care and just say all the good stuff that they're doing. There there was no gotcha for me. It was just he he didn't do the interview well. That's all. And then actually like worst possible outcome for them because now all the eyes are on it again. Yeah, it wasn't uh it wasn't very good at all. It's always easy to just blame the journalists etc. You brought me here. I thought I was going to talk about this when he probably knows that wasn't the case anyway. He's just I mean when people start attacking journalists I don't think that I mean not saying a journalist always right etc. But in this case, he's just doing that to try and deflect attention away from the shocking job that they've done for listen to. Um, we'll see if it impacts Roblox moving forward. Um, in terms of any maybe investigations that are ongoing, you know, other countries looking at banning it, they might look at that kind of thing and be like, well, they're not

really that serious. The other thing I did want to say, I remembered now, was that uh, one of the things that was touched upon and I think people are forgetting is yes, Roblox is doing a lot now. the pro I think the core the issue actually is is that when Roblox was scaling did it do enough for a long period of time and I know you can't go back and change that but the fact is is that some of these measures that are brought in now could they have been brought in years ago to help protect children that have suffered on the on the platform to to predators and I think that was the core of the issue that I think he just wasn't really grasping and it's that whole I think it's that whole maybe kind of Silicon Valley thing which is what was touched up on the newsletter It's just like they're they're in their own bubble, these tech CEOs, and he's just thinking about kind of this big growth story and yeah, thinking a bit about child protection. It the question was really like are you trying to scale really quickly over child protection or you putting child protection first and then trying to scale? And the way the interview has come across now is it

looks like scalability first, child protection second. But when it comes to kids, maybe it should be the other way around. Yeah, the platform's still not profitable. Those are my thoughts. So, moving on to the the next one. I a fairly short one from me, but I I was doing the soft launch list update, so check that out. Top games in soft launch. We try and update it every week or two. And I just noticed how many IP games are in soft launch at the moment. And which I think is probably says a lot about the mobile games market. So, if I just run through these that we've got. So, The Sims Lab Town Stories and the Sim Lab life together. That's actually quite hard to say. Uh, I think those are actually just like experimental things, but it's interesting and I know that I think longterm they are going to put another Sims game on. Was it The Sims Mobile recently shut down, but The Sims 3 play is still available. Uh, Sony's got Ratchet and Clank Rage Rumble. There's Minecraft Blast, Hill Climb Racing Free, Angry Birds Match World, Angry Birds Rush, Monopoly Go Chat, which which is an app. That's

interesting. Temple Run Free, big old IP there. Tom and Jerry Blast, which is Steer Studios/Savvy. They got a big IP there. Coin Master Board Adventure, actually, which is obviously based on Moon's coin coin master, but a bit more like Monopoly Go. And they've also got whole stars puzzle game which has the pig mascot as its app icon. Got Sonic Blitz, Game of Thrones Dragonfire, Tetris Block Party, Subway Surface City, Roomcapes, and CSR Street Car Racing. CSR 3 Street Car Racing and Plants Plants versus Zombies 3 is back. And then there's some other stuff that's kind of cooking. There's a jetpack joy ride racing game. And maybe it speaks to where we are in the market. Years after kind of at user acquisition is really expensive. How do you stand out? Companies want to make more of their IP now. And I think that's all coming together. And we've seen a lot of companies leverage their top franchises to kind of stand out on the store. And

obviously we even had that recently. is shut down now. But Super Squad Busters once again was trying to rely was trying to utilize its most famous characters in a game that ultimately failed and now it's got boat game which doesn't have those. But I just wanted to point it out. It is a really really interesting time on mobile for the top companies. There there is new IP as well, but there seems to be a big go for either bringing these from other platforms or reusing older IP and kind of bringing it back. So Aaron, what's your next story?
Yes. an extra for me. I guess speaking of IPs, so Royal Kingdom, which obviously a royal match was um already huge, Royal Kingdom has just celebrated its first anniversary um and has made just over $300 million between Google Play and the App Store according to AppMagic estimates. So obviously this is Dream Games kind of followup title too and according to the estimates, Royal Match made uh 296.4 four billion in its first year. So,

Royal Kingdom actually did 2% of the banet. Um, based on estimates um of like their first year. Um, so, you know, I would say that's a pretty strong start for it. Um, the game spent like 19 months in soft launch in places like the UK and then expanded and went global on November the twist last year into some places that have ended up becoming quite like key markets for it. Like the US is now its most lucrative which was also royal matches biggest market. Yeah. So obviously like the two like comparing their first years they performed very very similarly. Um there's only 2% difference between them which obviously like Royal Kingdom um has likely had some expensive marketing campaigns because they've had like celebrities like Shakira advertising the game. So I'm I'm curious which one would end up being the more profitable from the first year. Obviously these days you

like Royal Match is a multi-billion dollar game but yeah like looking at their first years and then also as you saying like IPS obviously Royal Kingdom has had the advantage of Royal Match already being a thing like an established brand uh which possibly helped it but then like Royal Match maybe had a more captive audience because it came out in 2021 during the pandemic. So, it's kind of I think it's quite interesting um that there are quite a lot of different factors that play for each game and yet they and they did basically the same in their first year. It's should also be noted for Royal Kingdom that revenues like trending upwards. This October was its top grossing month so far at 43.6 million which was a 14% rise month over month. Generally, I think other than September this year, Royal Kingdom's revenue has like scaled up every month since it went global. Um, obviously November's not finished yet. So, you know, it it certainly the trend looks as though this

is just going to carry on and steamrolling and getting getting bigger and bigger. So, obviously, you know, it's it's not been we talk about some games that make like a billion dollars in a year like Pokémon Pocket and stuff. Obviously, when you compare it to something like that, you know, it's not a um gargantuan success, but it certainly seems like it's building into one. And, you know, maybe by next year it will be talking about it, you know, having hit a billion or maybe not. But, you know, currently, as I say, it's it's very much on that kind of trajectory to just keep keep growing and has grown for a full year essentially. So, well done to Dream Games. Uh yeah, I think they've done a great job. I mean, obviously, like you said, very expensive the celebrity marketing campaign. So, I'm curious to just how profitable it's been so far, but it is still growing and uh I don't see why won't continue into next year.

It seems like a solid performer. Hasn't taken anything away seemingly from Royal Match.
Yeah, I was about to add actually that um yeah, like Royal Match hasn't really taken a hit. So it seems like I guess maybe people are just playing both or it's new people playing Royal Kingdom or Yeah. Like it hasn't Royal match hasn't kind of gone down by 300 million that Royal Kingdoms made then. It actually grew by another 1% in the year since Royal Kingdoms come out.
It feels like the Candy Crush Soda Saga to Candy Crush Saga. It's like very similar and yet but they both kind of make good money. Um, I guess what Dream doesn't want long term is like the King situation where they were releasing new Candy Crush games with kind of less revenue each time. We don't know that's going to happen necessarily with Royal Kingdom. It's not quite there up with Royal Match yet. But yeah, the next one I guess we'll need to not show that same kind of decline. You know, Turkey is where it's all happening right now. Kind of trust in in the talent that they've got there, the expertise in building

these systems, these games. Yeah, they're really good for dream games. And then you've got another story, another anniversary.
Yeah. So, bit of a theme this week. So, Infinity Nikki's first anniversary is coming up next week on December 5th. And yesterday, as of recording, the 26th of November, they just launched the big like version 2.0 update. So, yeah, just ahead of the anniversary. Um, so they've it seems like quite a a big update. Like there's overhauls to like exploration, combat, customization, even like how the game controls, whether that's PC, PlayStation, mobile, like they've all had updates and to like the UI and things. There's like new abilities um with Nikki, like there's low gravity movement and grappling and also a gigantification power. There's like new locations to explore. It kind of feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feel feels a bit like the kind of Genchin Impact formula to me of like every year brings like this big new version. X point update that adds new

areas and things to do. So, um, Infold Games have framed this as the most expansive evolution in the series history for inclining Nikki. Um, and I think it's it's an interesting pace to me this one. Like it's been so this has made 70 million on mobile in like nearly a year. Um, according to AppMagic estimates. So a smaller success than Royal Kingdom compared to the last story. But like as always, I'd be quite happy with 70 million. But um, it's it is an interesting case. Like it's done I think now in the context of like Love and Deep Space from Infold Games. It looks like quite a small success cuz Love and Deep Space just kind of blew up and made over 400 million in its first year. But when you compare it to like the the Nikki series more broadly, I guess was maybe they still consider it the flagship that infold or whether they do think it's Love and Deep Space now.

I'm not sure. Like so Infinity Lick Nikki kind of landed in the middle. It had a smaller first year than Shining Nikki which made just over 100 million. Um, but it did better than Love Nikki. So, yeah, kind of in the middle. But it is worth noting that Shining Nikki and Love Nikki both were exclusive to China for like their first year. So, Infinity Nikki beating Love Nikki is on the basis that one's global and one was only in China. If you actually look at the revenue Infinity Nikki's made in China, then it's lower in Love Nikki. On the other hand, you have factors like this being a crossplatform game. So you got presumably the revenue from PlayStation and PC that probably pushes it back above and maybe more Shining Nikki as well. So it's it's kind of hard to judge exactly how well the game has done because of that crossplatform aspect and just the kind of different landscape it's launched in and like the global versus China situation. So say it makes it a bit complicated to really kind of definitively say how well it's done for

a Nikki game. I think we can still say like Love and Deep Space has just kind of blown expectations away in a way really.
Um I I played Infinity Nikki and uh I I just didn't I when I initially played it, I didn't really like there's a few things I didn't like. I thought the onboarding wasn't particularly great. Um and the and it last the onboarding lasts for a fair while as well. So like is in like the opening part, but it sounds like they're making they've made a lot of changes since then. So I I think it seems to be doing perfectly okay. They they're definitely giving it massive promotion. Like they're at events there at Gamescom with a big booth just for Love Nikki as well as one a separate one for Love and Deep Space. So I say Love Nikki Infinity Nikki.
Yeah.
And then and then a separate one for Love and Deep Space. Yeah. Seems to be doing fine. Like you know it's not Yeah. Like you said not everything has to be like a Genchin Impact, you know. And uh hopefully it's profitable and all that all the money that we don't see that it's probably making in China I'm sure

is very very lucrative indeed like as in off the app store Google Play but on on other Android stores. Right. We're going to leave it there. So that brings us to the end of the pocket.biz podcast week in mobile games. Thank you everybody for tuning in as always. We really appreciate it. Thank you Aaron for all your insights today.
Yes. Thank you. And uh yeah, it was it was a great show and we'll see you all again next week. Have a good one. Goodbye.