PocketGamer.biz Podcast Episode #6: Zynga buys Peak, Sonic the Hedgehog movie sequel, and more!

hello and welcome to the Pocket Gamer the dot biz podcast a podcast all about mobile games and the business around them and things my name is Rick Carelli and the editor of polka dot biz and join me as always are my wonderful staff writers Kaylie Poppleton oh and Matthew Ford hello good morning to you both we usually record this in an afternoon instead it's morning and so I am naked but everybody's good is everybody good we all alive happy doing well I got that Friday feeling oh yeah can can confirm alive yes yes doing okay with what you what you can you know in this today's world and everything yeah it's ya know the good thing is I have my green screen up so that's something we will be talking about a lot of things today we will be discussing Zynga buying Pete games for 1.8 billion dollars which is mind boggling some Tim Sweeney's

comments about the epic game store Sega paramount that confirms gonna be a Sonic the Hedgehog movie sequel Sega revealed Game Gear micro and much more but we would just like to address something start of the show because obviously this is important and we can't really escape it the last week Elmore has been a really turbulent time in the world as we've seen from the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis we it's disturbing and upsetting that this continues to this day and we fully support the white lives matter movement and everybody protesting against police violence and stearic racism and obviously it's not gonna go away overnight it's not going to go away because a bunch of companies have donated X amount of money to X amount of organizations or anything like that it is on us to learn from this to go forwards and educate ourselves to

diversify as an industry and talk to more people who don't look like us and all that kind of thing we do have a list of resources on our game table is if there's anything you want to contribute to that please let us know and if there's anything you can do to help we've listed some ways that you will you will find can be useful even if the media in general seems to be moving away from the story racism doesn't go away because we're not talking about it it's still there and there's still stuff you can do so please do go check that out yeah but now we'll move on to the regular show and talking about games and people playing them and people making money off them and one of the big things that we've seen this week probably the biggest news of the past couple weeks Zynga has announced it is going to acquire peak games in a deal worth one point eight billion dollars so to break that down that's 900 million dollars in cash and 900 million dollars in common stock shares and realistically speaking

that singer is spending about 900 million dollars or each on tuned blast and toy blast which it claims is going to add two more games to its forever franchises list and increase its daily users by 60% I mean Kaylee you covered the story 1.8 million dollars does that seem like too much to games yeah like when I was when I was writing it I did think wow it's just a bit insane but that's that is all I for that time I was right I just was absolutely mental deal 1.8 billion I mean I guess the you know the thing to consider is are these games going to bring 1.8 billion dollars worth of value to Zynga and that's that's a it's not gonna do that overnight at all it's gonna be at least like five years so it's definitely a long-term commitment to two games that I would argue haven't really been in the

top lists for a while I don't know Matthew what are you what are your thoughts on on toon blast and toy blasts yeah you correct what you say needs a long term investment I think they've seen the games do bringing a lot of money and peak games past 1 billion and in August last year and that's for a lifetime players spend across its entire portfolio and Mopsy they've now spent 1.8 billion zing get us to acquire and full developer so they're obviously seen there on their up there's they obviously they think they can make the revenue back over time and I think it makes sense for what I think I've been going for recently you know after you know small giant games was their recent previous acquisition so I think it goes slot seeing quite nicely with that forever franchises also goes for a bit of a younger base audience base you could argue and both games are like much puzzlers but they are very skewed to a

much younger audience as opposed to you know a couple arguments you know twenties I could be any everyone but these ones are much younger audience I find you know so interesting you say that because I would usually argue that a match-three puzzler of this kind would actually be aimed at a sort of older female audience I know it's got the toy blast and toon blast sort of stylings but actually I played tune blast for quite a while when it first came out I got really into it and I was in because the thing that's interesting about two blasts horn blasts is that they launched with more tune blasts at least launched with clans pretty much straight off the bat and you as part of like a clan would sort of guild put build points and you could donate lives between each other and there was no text chat or anything like that and it wasn't trading resources or anything like that it was just oh whoever's at the top of the clan gets can donate stuff to other people and as far as I could tell it was definitely a female audience who is joining me in that I mean it's difficult to tell you my zip using their fake

names and stuff but it was definitely that kind of audience which i think is actually more in line with what Zynga usually does in its someone saying a game words with friends and that kind of thing and Wizard of Oz slots and that kind of thing I think that's kind of there already in that way it's kind of additive but I see where you're coming from as well isn't that it's it's a different kind of presentation it's much more colorful and aimed at that kind of younger okay I mean you know more than me having played the game ever played game researched it had a look at everything I've basically you know I've looked at a look at the community and everything like that and it's just a lot of comments I've seen surrounding people saying and this has been great to play play with my kids even you know yeah very colorful it's very you know that style so it probably is a bit of both to be honest you know female audience cheering with kids that's all yeah I think absolutely yeah as you say it's interesting as well they just acquired recently acquired them small giant games which is

obviously a very very different game and they're kind of diversifying their portfolio in that regard I think it's interesting as well because Zynga correct me if I'm wrong but until recently they were kind of that they weren't seem profits or particularly high profits am I am i writing that I was out of the industry for a few years they brought it back last couple years I believe yeah they didn't go for a bit of technical time so it's interesting that they clearly found themselves yeah October 20th October 2019 I'm just looking at previous stories that we wrote they recorded their best quarterly revenue and bookings in their 12 year history which they attributed largely to acquiring small giant games in late 2018 so clearly they've seen that they're doing something right and it's time to actually go out there and start buying even more developers even if the cost is nearly two billion dollars for essentially two games yeah I mean mergers and acquisitions it's you know it's a key way to success isn't it in

this industry especially revenue wise that's very true it's very true I wish there was a way I could segue into the next story off the back of that but I just it's it's 10:00 a.m. and I can't think of anything and Tim Sweeney voice of the people has come out and claimed that well actually no this first of all Tim Sweeney is said that he reckons that the epic game store is still coming to mobile so he's mentioned this I think a few times in the past in December 2018 he said he expressed interest in bringing it to a new retail platform then he started saying that he was gonna bring it to Android and iOS at some point he's gamespot of doing a big event in a minute and he did an interview with them and said that he's still planning on bringing it to well the company is still playing on bringing it to Android and iOS I mean we have seen the storefronts land on Android but I mean Matthew do you think Apple would

even want to play ball on this one hard to say with Apple and I'm not sure Android definitely you know they're not focused at all obviously they've had history and you know with fall night and everything not originally going on Google playing it's not up true and I don't think they'd be forced because I don't know what they've got to offer power from like you know being able to see your collection of games and purchasing that sort of thing I think it depends we need to know more about it I think I think it's we don't actually know what the Epic Games star on mobile will look like will it be the full thing I don't think so I think it's away and so yeah I think the question is like are they actually going to be releasing any games through on mobile and starting there's like a mobile publisher or is it just gonna be like the steam app which is literally just you can see the steam store and interact with it that way I think that'll be an interesting thing to note I mean but if it did if it like if it did manage to break through onto Android there's no way absolutely no way I

reckon if they were gonna sell their own games it would be allowed on iOS because I'm fairly certain about this and in the Terms of Service on the App Store you cannot have your own App Store to download through the App Store so you know the only way it could happen is through Android Kaleigh do you think an Android epic game store would make a huge difference to the world or would we still see like Google Play taking over holding oh I don't think it made much of a difference I think it is still one Android still be dominated by Google Play even if epic were to do their own mobile games for their storefront because Google place to go to that's in the Android store for forever and yeah I also I'm just gonna say I don't think epic games will sell games through it I think it's going to be an app for authentication security and things like that I think it just gonna be like the sea map I don't think

they're gonna sell games through it yeah the other thing to know is like fortnight's not actually you know now that it's being sold on android through Google Play Burger jingly - obviously epic and it's not actually done that great in its first month not not as high as expectations as many people were expecting so you have to think about how much you know leverage you have on that platform then that respect yeah that's a very good point I had I haven't actually looked at the sales figures for fortnight in the past month on Android but yeah I think I wasn't it was the recent thing were they they'd surpassed a billion dollars in lifetime revenue then you actually broke it down and the only figure that you could see for Android was this tiny amount because it had only just been released on Google Play yeah I haven't got the figures off top my head but yes yeah but ya know it's interesting the thinking of that and and if Tim Sweeney reckons he can persuade Apple to have another app store on the platform then

fair dues to him but the other thing that Tim Sweeney has also been saying he believes that making games free on the epic game store which is something they do they really they give away a new game every week or two games or so every week he reckons that it actually leads to more sales for that get for that developer I don't know if so this quote is something like it's been a benefit for game developers most developers who launch their games for free on the store finding their sales on Steam and on console platforms actually increased after they went free of epic because of increased awareness now what I don't understand what he's saying here is people like downloading the game for free and then going and buying it elsewhere or are they downloading the game and then going and checking out the rest of the companies works yeah it's a confusing statement yeah he's yeah I think it's deliberately vague in saying this I was wondering if it was you speaking more like there's Yama's and everything like you you buy a game and I

think so he mentions is it satisfactory yeah please so if you buy that you like that styled game you then go and buy a similar sort of game which again is a bit like I don't know if that works to some extent it seems very clutching at straws for me yeah I guess I can kind of see the point though because it's sort of if it is like as you say based on genre when is mentioned satisfactory like there's no way in hell I would ever play satisfactory it does not look like my kind of game it's very detailed and and management based and all this light stats and stuff and all the kind of stuff that really cause the hell out of me but I mean if I did play it and liked it then maybe yeah I'd be more into other games but also at the same time I always think I personally I don't play a game and then think right I love this genre now yeah certainly I will I will I go out and and maybe play some of the games like it I'll try and ask people I've been really enjoying this is there

anything like that that I might also enjoy but I think it's playing one game doesn't mean that I'm gonna instantly fall in love with everything else available to me I don't know I think no I I do agree yeah and yeah with satisfactory I think you know no I don't know where I was going with that but yes yeah I think I've confused myself everybody's computers are let's move swiftly on because we've got something that we can all talk about quite easily now and we'll slow down my I realize I'm talking quite quickly I'll slow down although maybe I should speed up because okay yes because Sonic the Hedgehog is getting a movie sequel there was already Sonic the Hedgehog released this year on

Valentine's Day it was a very romantic day for me in my part they're going and seeing that and now Sega and paramount have come back together and they said they are going to definitely do a sequel Jeff Fowler the original director is returning Josh Miller impact case will be script writers it looks like all a lot of the people who were working on before executive producers stopped working for or or returning and as probably because the last film made over 200 million dollars globally in less than a month of release which probably made its money back if nothing else and it's in Oscar contention are you kidding me yeah cuz no other films have come up it's literally Sonic and like bad boys for life I think that's it son of the Hedgehog wins Best Actor for Sonic the Hedgehog not even Ben Schwartz the voice is just Sonic the Hedgehog wins Best Actor I mean obviously this seems like a good business decision

right Kaleigh good yeah I love the movie it was very stupid yes should we stop talking about business and just talk about something the Hedgehog the movie that's dead I could I saw it so screw I saw it for TX so like so the seats went up and down and moved there was like blast air in your face blast of water at the back of your neck all that kind of thing so when Sonic's like racing around your seat like lizards they're in the forward and Shane's around and stuff it's a very enjoyable film but he doesn't actually do that much racing in it he's in there like a car for the majority that's a good point this is a very deliberate choice on this the writers oh yeah Sonic's fast but also he's not feeling too well because he's been tranquilized so he has to sit in the car and Moomin speed for most of the film I guess the good thing about

this is that they have dealt with the redesign issue already because the first ever Sonic the Hedgehog look was horrific and I imagine they'll make some sort of joke about that in the sequel and you'd actually make a joke to us Sonic yes I lost it nobody else in the cinema was laughing you know it's just there it's very interesting to see how far it's come you know from the original design and obviously as a massive opera on social media about it and you know it brought into the conversation of should you give in to fans demands like this and everything is that the better thing is that the right choice and everything I think for this it has proven to be the right choice and you know it's people have voted with the wallets gone out and seen it has made a decent amount of money for a video game film I think it even beat detective Peaks unioned so yeah so there we go and it's getting a sequel which isn't great

the sad side of it is I know the studio that just did the redesign of Sonic the currents and everything in in the movie and all that laid off I sub so which is horrible you know he putting all that work and everything and see that happen so he can ace it's hard to not be a bit torn on it everything and from a personal standpoint I love sonic sonic it's hard I mean you know he just across all mediums he's got his good and bad but the film was very enjoyable I'm very much looking forward to a sequel and but you know with these sort of things it's hard to feel it's not a little tainted yeah well hopefully you know if there's definitely money going into a budget to get a second film off the ground hopefully some of the people who have unfortunately been laid off will be able to find work either at studios who will now work on some of the hedgehog or other visual effects studios I do remember they also did cats which possibly may have played more into their

their unfortunate demise as that film was a bomb that make sonic the first design of Sonic's a cat so that he could put that first design in the cat's film I feel like in many ways no I feel I think it was the the shoot it was the studio that did the redesign so the first you do I don't think worked on the redesign and in the new studio I don't remember that call worked on the redesign but they were also working on cats at the same time if you not watch cats please do watch it it's amazing preferably with a can of pre-mixed gin in your hand and on the other Saiga topics as well as something I really want to talk about so I'm really fascinated by this is the return of the Game Gear sager is now so it did it's sort of micro well the hell was that cots on console called what's the Sega thing so tired Mega Drive the mini mega

okay I thought you were thinking of like another spin-off thing like you know the Nintendo did the NES mini yeah well no well the minute they did a Mega Drive minute yeah but yeah it's like a bargain bin in the end wasn't it was it yeah I thought it became like a bargain bin product in the end because a shame because I heard it was really good and a very excitable dog whose Kingdom auntie loves the ogre drive is a Sega fan Sega fans represent so yeah we've seen the NES mini was in the snez mini was seen the Mega Drive mini we've got turbo graphics 16 micro Edition and now we've got the game gear micro now the game gear wasn't exactly the biggest console in the world and given is a handheld you know the screen is fairly tiny now they've made it even smaller and weirdly they've also spread out the games across four different consoles so you've got

different colored consoles all with four games each and you see in games like so one has Sonic the Hedgehog and a few others another one has Sonic and Tails I think was a Game Gear exclusive and a few others and then you've got one that's pretty much dedicated to shining force and one that's more dedicated to like hardcore RPGs like Megami Tensei gaiden last bible special runs on battery and can also be charged by USB display on the screen is 1.15 inches which is just something a and a single mono speaker and the weird thing is they cost $50 each so to get the collection you need to spend $200 or they have a special edition where you can get all of them for 250 dollars yeah a magnifying glass yeah I didn't understand that whatsoever like we sell them for $50 each the spore okay so the bundles 250 yeah because if you're throwing a monkey defying glass yeah you need to pay the extra $50 so you can see what you're doing I mean and does this seem like

Matt does this seem like good business sense to be releasing all these things and fragmenting your own market as soon as the market begins ah it's not to say when they sort of thing I mean he said it's just the how it's all come about and because there was rumors for I think a couple weeks saying no say you're a big announcement coming up and permit su D Japanese magazine we're saying we've got a big exclusive from saviours you know keep your eyes peeled lots of speculation people like oh is the Xbox Series X going to be rebranded the Sega series X and down deliberate that was my favorite rumor yeah released in Japan under that and because obviously Xbox doesn't do great over there and then for instance to come out and be game gear micro it was a bit like okay this was not what anybody expected so I think maybe saying your hand a little bit how will do I think you'll do fine and I think people like these little niche

products and everything like that and these definitely a collector's item um I don't think it's gonna light the world on fire yeah I think what you say about it being a collector's item is more interesting because it's definitely like that's good that's gonna be the thing isn't it if like I own all four game gears it's super cool here they're all lined up on my desk kind of thing that's gonna be what sells it I think because when you consider like even the Mega Drive Mini had like 21 games on it and that was 70 quid so only about twenty pounds twenty dollars more than what a single one of these micro consoles would be and with far more games on it so is it's interesting that Sega have decided now to like break down how many games are on it unless it's just a case of like because the console is so small there's only so much memory they can fit on them and that's that's the problem maybe they should have made like a game gear big instead of game gear micro yeah I don't know okay Lee what are you does this interest you as a consumer is this

something that you're thinking of buying when they come out it's not for me personally but I do completely agree that they're gonna be a collectible item I think it's more targeted at Sega fanboys people that love Sega worships a go and they want a little bit from their retro days that's um that's what I think it's aimed at but two hundred and fifty dollars though for all four of them with a magnifying glass [Laughter] it's like 50 quid this magnifying glass I'm not the only one that thinks we've seen stuff like this before though in some sense you know you know there's been so many re-releases like like retro consoles everything like that it just doesn't feel anything different like I say we had the you know that Sega's was it going SES not the estimate that's an attending mega definitely thank you I have is the Mega Drive mini but it is a small yeah I think like you know PlayStation you do that so we've seen so many of these yes it just doesn't feel

anything different yeah other than fragmenting yeah but I guess maybe that's what they were trying to do is like differentiate it from other consoles by going you know take your pick of these four games and they're sort of grouped by style rather than anything else yeah I think it'll be interesting to see if they if they actually perform quite well because I completely had forgotten about the PlayStation mini until you just mentioned it then that was just a nightmare isn't it because they just completely bombed out yeah that was not good because of emulation issues and all that kind of thing so it'll be interesting to see one if this might go micro mini whoever game gear micro this has too many words too small not enough words for snow game gear micro if it actually sells well and if people actually enjoy playing them I'm sure our friends at paquimé calm will pick up at least one if they ever make out to the west we don't know if they will yet they're currently Egypt Japan only and will be the equivalent of 50 dollars in

yen when they do release over there so interesting do it once keep your eye on moving further from the East more to well to Finland we're going to be looking at Rovio who you may remember from a few episodes back we were talking about there they had soft launched a like a turn-based RPG type thing and they'd done it so they'd soft launched one game without the Angry Birds branding and one game that had all the Angry Birds branding but it was the same game just to test whether Angry Birds still held it's it's yes Angry Birds chronicles think it was yeah that sounds oh is it legend my bangle bracelet runes niagra's legends is different I think there's a lot of Angry Birds game it's too many angry well we might not see a different Angry Birds or a non Angry Birds game in they've just acquired Dark Fire Games a company that is really difficult to find anything about beyond they've been acquired by Rovio because just looking them up just comes up with a fortnight dark fire

bundle so I've really never heard of this company before and but they apparently had been working on the soft launch game called dark fire heroes which looks very similar to the the Angry Birds Chronicles of legends whatever it's called and heroes of Chronicles or legends or whatever it's called Rovio's CEO can t live Arantes said that it strengthens our game genre mastery and expansion to mid core games where we see attractive opportunities in rpgs it's something they've experimented in before and I think we talked about that before in that they they've done this before with Angry Birds evolution I think it was called which was kind of like what if Angry Birds had were teenagers in the naughties and one full emo and I don't know Matthew it should Rovio be going into mid court because my gut feeling is no it's not really works for them in the past but is this is this a better way of going into my core as hiring somebody who knows how to do it or acquiring somebody it seems a smarter way to do it I'm not sure it's the best

thing I mean they'll do Rovio loves to experiment and and you know that's great you know that should always be applauded for and you know it's similar to what Marvel Studios the gaming side of it has been doing with their products you know you know Disney or them not they went to insomniac games and found them for the spider-man game because of like look these guys can create open-world games you know similar to the Ratchet and Clank and everything that's what we want for spider-man yet similar thing here you know Rovio are looking for a mid core developer someone who can you know make waves in that particular genre and they if they believe this is the right studio then you know swandam things we just gotta wait and see what they'd release in the end and if that's right proof will be in the pudding I guess but the one that so the one thing I always go back to is like they have just casual so well though when you look at like their top performing games Angry Birds - very much a casual game even if it's got you know long-term retention

mechanics and clans and that kind of thing Angry Birds dream blast I think is the other game they regularly mention is being like one of their best performing's like that's what that's what Rovio is really good at and maybe what Rovia should be doing is is expanding it's it's casual output and involving that rather than going right we're gonna go back into mid core because they've tried mid-course so many times and it just doesn't seem to really work for them I mean I don't know Kaylee you know we've we've talked - I think we spoke to you about before about Angry Birds doesn't really hold much sway in your mind but you know would you go for an Angry Birds mid core game if given the choice would you play an Angry Birds casual game that was just another angry Birds like the good old days or would you sort of explore the Angry Birds universe with in a different way like like a turn-based RPG this is probably meeting a bit biased because RPGs are actually my favorite genre across whatever platform so I would be more inclined to try their experiment especially with them having them had acquired Dark Fire games for our mobile

RPG specialist I would definitely be more inclined knowing that chances are there if it's gonna be in it and this is what they do so I I'd go with that over the old-school Angry Birds although I do enjoy them I did you slip my Angry Birds back in the day they are stone-cold classics even now and yet I still can't find anything about dr. Ochs like games other than their game duck fire heroes which as I say looks a lot like but actually looking at it it looks kind of like almost a clash game so that kind of dropping and dropping your units onto a thing and then they move forwards and start attacking except with some single player added into it which that could actually be quite interesting and near the interesting thing is for me at least it looked like wargaming was originally publishing this game and Rovio who clearly looked at that and gone oh hang on a minute well after that so now wargaming wargaming is still listed as like the

publisher for now so I don't know if Dark Fire is gonna still be published through wargaming or if if Rovio respectively the publishing rights as well I assume that would be the case because it would be wild if they happen yeah is interesting looking game interesting seeming acquisition not the only company that's for doing acquisitions this week either dr. Fargo's moved in last week no it is this week player except in back on their acquisition front they have decided to acquire I'm going to get this wrong cat's ear games I think or Katie or something like that CA te ia games a Croatian developer which are now being set up as play routes Croatia with a new office in Zagreb it's a team of 40 who I believe worked on a few casual games before now and they're now working on announced free-to-play mobile title quote from co-founder deja and Radek we are one of the oldest studios and

Croatia this is the start of a new and exciting era for our team it was a great opportunity for the local gaming scene to grow and prosper I do think the if I'm not mistaken Cassio games have previously worked on a lot of PC titles before now being shifted over to mobile by this acquisition and it looks like they've worked on a lot of point-and-click I would sort of guess kind of games based mostly on the arts I I'll be honest I'm looking this up as I talk oh they did the Love Boat okay and so so interesting acquisition I did have a question written down for this let me find it real sec and is this a sign that player X's continuing to explore new genres and the answer to that is yes but Kayle discuss I'm totally honest this doesn't come as a surprise I've never played anything by play Rick's so um for me I don't know if I don't I'll be honest of all the topics

that we've got for today this is probably my the one I had the most to say about is the one I said nothing about Sonic for a minute just like a hedgehog no mine the one I knew the most about was the epic game store cuz I used to do the piece Easter well we're on play Rick's now Matthew definitely thanks what was your question remember it's the end of the podcast now isn't it we're all just winding down that position acquisition is it a sign they're pushing out to different Shores I guess in trip I guess the bigger question is I think it's again it's it's another thing that Rose was saying about Rovio Rovio the Masters of if casual games and they keep pushing out to mid call player X I would argue with the Masters of like narrative match three games and we've seen that in guards and

home escapes we've then spawned off a whole genre and now they're exploring stuff like hidden object games is this a good move for play Oryx and or should they stick to what they know yeah again I think it's just a same thing which Rover you're doing an experiment in with the market trying to branch out from you normal you know genre everything like that see if you can make even you know more waves in different departments you know it's always a good thing katia games you said they're normally known for point click for point click games that correct as far as I can tell yes so with titles like M escape from drug no tales from the dragon mountain to : the lair this is yeah so we don't actually know what so again they'll be working on I mean from that you know it could be anything like a hidden-object game they might just want to be expanding that sort that's the were looking for I didn't mean point-and-click I'm into hidden objects looks like they're working on hidden object games and there you go

there's play Rick's are expanding so that at least makes even more sense to continue with that and play Rick's know what they're doing you know they've they've surpassed 1.1 billion downloads recently yeah and garden escapes has been a big huge success and big part that and gun home escapes too it just seems a smart move you know bring in a developer that's maybe not that well-known bringing them into the fold they've clearly seen something there and then they're gonna put it onto their banner and then hopefully you know they've between releasing something associated with play rakes and something underneath katia game so we've never heard of it's obviously gonna get a boost hmm I mean Casio games isn't like an unknown force or anything like that as I said I may not be in the mobile market especially play Rick's is fourth yeah no true and yeah I think it's interesting I guess the thing that player works good at and probably best known for is this is the whole narrative addition to to existing genres so be

interesting to see if the player its formula of kind of sticking a story into a traditionally story list game and it's gonna work in different genres I mean a hidden-object game they typically do have good stories and we've seen games like Joon's journey from whoo girl have got a lot of they've continued ly updated with new episodes each week and all that kind of thing so we've seen that that can work if you interesting to see if the player it's approach which kind of intertwines narrative and base building almost is gonna work as well yeah I mean they released mana matters recently play Rick's that was the hidden-object game and I played a few hours of that and everything and you know they are fun they are addictive so I can definitely see how they can take off and you know it does seem to be early estimations he's doing okay so I imagine with this they'll just continue to go on as they have been and we shall see in the future yeah the other thing that's interesting the players are done

recently is they have soft launched a new match-three puzzle RPG called puzzle breakers so this looks to be pretty much kind of eret fairly similar to what they would usually do in that it involves matching colored gems and the only difference this time around is that it's more like previous dimension small giant games I think Empire and puzzles or whatever it's called with the that kind of match three RPG genre way you match stuff and then it attacks an enemy and that kind of thing which I think is really interesting as well because as I say if play Rick's is gonna add its own narrative spin on that maybe that could be a new big thing I'm gonna go back to you on this because you're our Slough launch expert I mean what do you what do you make of puzzle breakers do you think it's an interesting looking game for what you've seen it's a little different from what we've seen I don't know it beats it's always hard to sell themself launched the game's changed so much over time you know this is just being soft launched recently so who knows it might not come

out for six months it might not come out for a year might not come up for two years it might not come out at all that's the thing with soft launch you know it's got a generic awk as it's like poster boy at the minute mmm it doesn't stand out to me anything different gameplay as well it's just a bit Nights and aux and you know monster sort of thing it's just experimenting in a minute I think it's the RPG elements if they can find something different with that or even just you know work on something that's been established before and make it fun I'm sure the component audience I think yeah it's an interesting thing as well because as we were saying it feels more of a mid core game it has that sort of casual play but it's definitely if you're gonna be upgrading stuff and leveling up and that kind of thing it's it's again another casual company sort of pushing into mid core and maybe maybe we're about to see the return of mid core you know the one thing we we I think we can all agree on is the hyper casual has been enormous lately and there's been a

huge push towards developers returning to that super simple game but now we're seeing like the developers of traditionally simple games again returning to or what if we can make them deeper and what if we make them more you know that mid tier experience between hardcore and casual that mid core as it is called I think that that's the more fascinating thing is that we're seeing like this general sort of trend of developers experimenting again in mid core which was a huge thing back when I saw it in like 2015 2016 and then seemed to to die down and the hardcore games carried on and now and everyone else went back to casual maybe now is the time I don't know Kaylee what what are your thoughts are on the mid core markets in general um I actually I think it's I think it is gonna make more of a comeback I definitely think it will because um people like me I like things are a bit more in-depth I think that's part of I like some hyper casual games the part of my issue is I do like

to go a bit deeper and that is what midcourt offers and I do think that's been missing and I think with some of the companies now clearly leaning more towards it I do think the markets and they're gonna come back up again for mid corn I think it will be received quite well Matthew seem to be chewing your lip and is possibly thinking of a response I didn't know I was butter no I was just thinking yen no I just I agree with what Kaylee saying and it just seemed like it's gonna be making a big comeback I mean the main thing here I take aways player it's making a lot of big moves at the minute and I think it's gonna be showing over the next year or so indeed only time will tell as you say these games might not even come out and yeah it'll be interesting to see where it all goes and and who comes out on top and I think that's gonna do it for us I think we've reached a good stopping point there we've talked about a lot of the big things and the big moments of the week so yeah let's let's call it there

that'll be the end of our of our weekly podcast thank you all for joining us there will probably not be a podcast next week because we will all be at Pocky a mood connects digital number two which is going to take up a lot of our time and hopefully take up a lot of your time as well if you haven't got a ticket they are still available you will still be able to buy tickets during the week as well if there's any days you particularly want to go to you know you can just join a midweek and join and get access to our new meeting system we've got new channels to talk to people interact with everybody we've completely revamped a lot of it same great content same great stuff all of us will be there as well hosting panels and roundtable sessions at the end of the week and fireside chats and all sorts stuff so if you're not sick of seeing our faces yet come check us out it's going to be great and as I say if you've not going to take it please do go get one so it's it's worth going to if you are a job seeker we are also offering free tickets to people who are currently trying to get jobs in the industry and we know a lot of people are

struggling with jobs at the minute juicer to the ongoing pandemic and that kind of thing so there'll be information about that on pocket without bears as well so go check that out and do you check out became Adobe's for all the news that we've talked about and News and all your business needs for the mobile industry I think that is everything so it leaves me to say goodbye to Matthew goodbye goodbye to Kaylee I and goodbye to you all thank you again for joining us and we will see you all in the near future bye bye