Panel: The New Gaming Frontier Navigating Emerging Markets for Global Growth

[Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you [Music] next up we have a panel from uh moderated by the one and only Chris James and it will be about navigating emerging markets for Global growth all right well I'll take the stage then can I welcome my lovely panelists to Stage you know all cozy a little cozy circle come on I'm not going to name you all like I'm nice it's not the Olympics or something [Music] right come and sit yourselves down I'll move you have to sit next to me I'll move across cool right this is the last panel of the day so let's have some enthusiasm and engagement and then you

can uh if you're really good you can get X drink tickets so there's no uh no pressure um so this is this is we've just had an interesting talk I thought was really cool actually about the African market with something I'm kind of interesting as well uh this was initially entitled uh the uh navigating Emerging Markets but actually considering the expertise we've got we're going to narrow that down a little bit more onto the onto the the meaner space um I just want to drop a few kind of figures here recently last year in 2022 according to New Zoo who keep all the data uh the Mina Market was the fastest growing was that like six and a half a half percent and this year it's predicted to be the fastest growing again up eight percent uh to something like 7.2 billion dollars with 574 million players so something to pay attention to right and you guys are experts in this space so uh I've lost my is that mine yeah got me moving around sorry I hope I'm not to uh um so I'd like to start as usual by each of our planets just offering a quick

introduction to who they are and what you're doing in the mean of space or have been doing in in the the meaner game Space so from the far end you see you're at your first yeah so hi everyone I'm you're still doing uh even though it says resistance games here I was there working I was working in with Cadre in Riyadh in game Founders helping the startups uh helping establish startups and then accelerating them for cool so you're helping the ecosystem yeah yeah the grass what are you doing completely different oh it's a long story uh hi everybody I'm Katrina so uh I also one of the founders of game Founders that just finished uh one year uh program in Saudi so UC has a very good insight into the everyday life and struggles of of the people there but I was also uh two years as the CEO of 966 in the uh Savvy games group and our job was more to look on a strategic level how to uh how to support and and grow

the local industry so also got a chance to uh to when to go to all the other countries in in the region and have quite a lot of insights from there as well as do you now that you are people think I know things we can't have that Mika hi everyone my name is Saudi origin gaming company so we are working as a publisher not only publishing games in the mineral region but globally as well and we have also our own development at the moment we have already Studios set up in KSA but we are planning to open another studio in Europe soon and in addition to be publisher and developer we are investor so looking for excellent games and game companies to be invested fantastic so we've got three people sort of affiliated with Saudi and not Saudis it's different something different my

name is themer I'm the head of growth at Joe worker so we are a company based out of a Jordan Amman and with officers in Dubai and Baghdad Iraq so we are a social card game so we're over 45 Plus card and board games uh the largest in the mini region and we've been in so we do our own development and Publishing and so we've been live since 2010 and then two years ago we were acquired by still friend group besides Sweden well two years this last weekend yeah so drinks on you that's great um so no so okay first question I guess for we'll go back the way I gave her some numbers we're the fastest growing the meaner we're the meaner Market is fastest growing albeit from a lower base obviously than Asia America whatever but how how big can it get how bullish are you about the prospects over the next couple of years say I don't know somewhere between two and five uh you know I remember when the Chinese games Market was just getting started and that's done quite well uh so so you know

is that the sort of scale we're looking at I mean obviously there's a lot of a lot of Gamers there we're talking about I think it was like 600 million almost Gamers so how big can we get are we gonna is this gonna continue being the market region to grow I I think so absolutely I'd give it five I mean uh the amount of young people in the Middle East is pretty big and the amount of gamers in Saudi Arabia has a huge penetration in Jordan in Iraq and other areas there's still room for growth okay so absolutely I think so you're bullish 100 you've set up a studio there you have people actually be pretty mad to be doing that if you weren't I guess yeah yeah exactly so so we are quite polish on that because if you look at the numbers that's the area that has the growth at the moment so it's obviously the potential is huge so if you look at the past numbers that Nico Partners released some time ago yeah they said that 70 million of the players are generating roughly 2 billion Revenue so so and you have 600 million audience

there or let's say market so so of course there's room for growth I think that the biggest limitation is probably the number of people living in that region so so that's the only limit there yeah so we'll come back in a second so again do either of both of you wish to add to this I'm gonna you both had your own opinions I appreciate but you know I I maybe want to I mean obviously I I'm agreeing in terms of the the direction of the growth but I maybe want to bring another aspect I feel that we're only scratching the surface in terms of like what the games industry in the region can be itself yeah we're talking about players yes there's already a lot of players but they don't have a huge amount of localized content or content coming out of the region and I think in that sense once we start unlocking all of that Talent once you have all of these initiatives that all the governments are doing actually working and then you get more and more of the local Studios growth relocation all of that then I think that will kind of like be almost like the second wave like we're seeing the first wave now based on

players but I think that there will be like another one there as well we will come back to we'll come back to that because that is a really important part of it is the ecosystem yeah and I'll bring you into that later so you I'm gonna so just what could we mentioned big numbers in Saudi and and obviously you know like Europe like you know and lots of any like any state is it there's more than one country here lots of different countries lots of different regions when we're talking about the Mina Market we had somebody talking about Africa just now we're not really talking about Africa maybe Egypt I guess but what what what do you guys kind of see as being the kind of targetable meaner ASP Market you're obviously in Jordan so you're your domestic Market must be part of what you have targeting for us it's it's the Levant yeah uh plus Iraq and as you see it's usually Saudi Arabia Kuwait yeah uh Oman and the UAE yeah Qatar and uh Bahrain are small in population yeah but usually that's usually for us is where the big payers are it's where most of the users are and

yeah there's still room for growth is that broadly the kind of an agreement that's what we're all aiming for Saudi and the Gulf States you know maybe the main players but Minot tree basically is the is the driver for the growth for the region so so KSA obviously has the let's say biggest revenue and and then UAE has the highest revenue per user yeah and then Egypt has the fastest growing on a gaming population Egypt yes huge and yeah yeah you agree with that you're fine obviously there's a lot of footballers there now and they they apparently have quite a lot of disposable income too so maybe they'll be uh they'll be boosting the the numbers um and and what are the games that succeeding you you know you're just saying well come on a bit about how there's still not a mass of local grown content so what are the game genres or specific titles that are succeeding there is it is it just you know the same as everywhere else is it Candy Crush and pubg and whatever was it or is it something different I would say that uh if you look at the

top Crossing shot it's quite clear it's a social Competitive Gaming that is generating the most Revenue so it's literally first person shooters it's Forex strategy tabletop games so those are the leading genres that wear the most revenues made but I think that there's a room for growth for other genres because there is a growing audience of females that are Desiring for other content so so I'm I'm quite sure that the devil big growth for barceland merge and other more casual titles but are you saying that the moment we'll come to a second you're saying the moment that it's a more male dominated audience okay yeah because obviously mobile has started you know typically everyone's got a phone right so you know if you think about this just the sheer number of people and players there it's not really relevant what is on top like even if you are like in like position 199 you're still very comfortable yes like because of the the spending and because of the share number

of people so I think like number 199. no it's great it shouldn't no but I'm just I'm just saying that I don't think necessarily all the studios should align to you know this is what stop Crossing so I should do this I think everybody should just like you know figure out their Niche and do that because there's plenty of people and plenty of money in all of those right now and actually there might be niches that aren't public the reason these games are there because the ones that are localized or whatever yeah a good example is a stumble guy so stumble guys when it was released it was actually growing really fast in the minor region because of the social gameplay so it's not FPS it's not Forex strategy yeah but it was a social gameplay that was very interesting experience for the players so so kind of the reason that these games are successful is that you can play against other players and and Savvy liked it so much they bought the whole company yeah exactly that was good um so you social gameplay that's what that's where you squarely sit right so I mean like one thing to understand me in the Middle East uh in the region um social

gaming play like like Barney tricks hand it's part of our culture yeah we played during Ramadan we play with our grandparents like backgammon uh so it's something that we grew up in yeah and by default is the largest uh thing to play uh in terms of games and that's what we do at joaker yeah yeah so we developed games our folks more on the culture yeah and it's different for example in Jordan than it is in Saudi Arabia but it's tabletop games corner board games yeah yeah in terms of the female aspects we're actually seeing a huge number of growth of female Gamers uh they love for example playing Ludo I mean 35 of our users are females okay and it's increasing at such a rapid Pace yeah and on top of that a social aspect of it yeah like for example voice chat and the group playing together your apps are very social in their very nature absolutely it's as much as social app as as it kind of exactly people who come on the app just to speak to each other and just you know it's like little Facebook rooms groups and they're constantly communicating at the same time they're playing together so we are more of a

social uh app than we are just a gaming company yeah okay yeah you're gonna come in new season yeah I was about to uh comment that uh at least in our program there that 40 of the participants were also women yeah so I think that and to them it was perfectly normal to for women to develop games as well so I would imagine that the number of female players is gonna just gonna grow as there is even drive to create uh in at least in Saudi so we've seen that I mean we we run the pocket gaming connection Jordan we've been involved in that event for 30 years and the the number of young developers at least that are that are female it's you know there's it's it's really weird because like it's great because teachers you know I it's it's the industry's getting better but it is still sort of the development industry still more male-led whereas in those the the young talent coming through seems to be much more balanced and that's it so it's great um whether that continues through to people professionally do it I don't know we'll see I guess it's early early days it's it's changing just to add to that

and look we have developers in Saudi Arabia and they're all female based yeah sort of in Sarabia 100 female and they're all developers why and the best developers why do you think that is just because why would that be different Saudi women are just cool what can you do I wasn't this exciting it was just interesting why is it is it because this is such a new field and it's kind of I don't know it's an interesting okay I have a feeling that it's not just uh genderized that uh in in at least in Europe often use there is a serious lack of female programmers and there that programming isn't as gendered that okay that's for men uh but the education is are similar to both and then I guess we see a huge number of books like not just artists being women but also programmers is that kind of like a function the fact it is so new so it's not been not had generations of kind of okay that there are like very strong uh let's say

organizations and movements of like women like game conference for women and like this and that for women only so it's almost like you know the the playing field is different or the the growth is different for for for that kind of talent to emerge okay so I'm gonna stick on Gamers for a little bit and then we'll come on to the industry so in terms of we've talked that that you know social gaming and board gaming is a big part of the culture is there anything else that you know anybody visiting the space or thinking about pushing their games their needs to needs to know obviously there's you know there's different cultural religious differences what is there any other things you just need to realize about you know uh Saudi Gamers or Jordanian Gamers that you might that might be different or are they just Gamers which I mean first person shooter is also another big genre that we've seen uh grow a tremendous Pace within the Mina region but no they love gaming I mean it's part of their culture they enjoy you see every single little child or teenage or even young

adult playing games uh you know we have cafes where you go for example small cook and you play card games yeah and that's just all over the main region yeah yeah okay fair enough but I would maybe say that let's say the players like they're very proud to be Arab in that sense I would say localization is like very important or let's say it can play a big role obviously if it's a game that is already popular everywhere it would go there as well as is but as soon as you kind of you know make something specific like a localized character or you make something they are grateful for it and they show the Gratitude with money which is obviously something that we're all looking for right so gratitude with money I'm always in favor any tips there'll be a tip jar going man like if anybody wants to add no it's fine um no I I know that's what we're trying to do we're trying to provide entertainment and and want something in return what about the um what about the kind of marketing and uh and acquisition channels are they familiar exactly the same is it the same just going through

Google and and apple I the reason I asked this I get the sense that um that the existing telcos still have more of a role like whenever we do an event Zayn or STC you know we don't they're more see more interested in engaging the mobile content and the games then U.S or UK operators for instance or telcos is that are they an important channel is is that a marketing channel or just well a bit a bit both I mean like platforms are still important because in terms of monetization yeah the dcpa which is Dart carrier billing it's still heavily uh relied on within uh in terms of ways to pay for your hard currency through your mobile credit yeah and that's why they're still involved in those in those regions yeah and they're also doubling down on Esports uh yeah but just on the topic for localization as you mentioned I think in terms of marketing uh localization is one of the most important aspects and localizing to also the country itself localization for

example Saudi Arabia is different than localizing to Jordan it's different localized in Kuwait there's different uh Arabic dialects different uh in terms of characters so you have to fully understand that and you know every single game has a chance to grow those markets if you understand that correctly understand the culture correctly yeah in terms of sample putting a character that Saudi comparison compared to playing a character Jordanian they'll I mean Jordanian people love it inside people love it but you have to differentiate you can't just kind of do marketing with a general Arabic yeah and just for example a shake yeah as a character no you gotta understand the different cultures for those specific uh markets no I I I I I guess that going back to the point like you know a lot of people obviously aren't publishing in that region yet or developing maybe so does that mean that that to make the most of that localization it's all about local Partnerships I mean can you I mean obviously the days of the App Store you can publish where you like you can just click a box and it's there but to truly make the most of that do you you know do you need to to find a local partner for

you know I mean there are Arabs living all over the world and I'm sure that people are experts also living elsewhere but I think it's it is important to have somebody able to do it I wouldn't say it's necessarily like the number one to have somebody on site to like help with all of the it's like in China for instance like you can't it's hard it's a western world please it's it's it's not as it's not as difficult as no as China but I think you need to definitely have if you're looking for that market you need to have somebody who understands more than just kind of like I speak like you know Arabic and I'm from one country but like there needs to be a little bit of a dreamer I would say that it requires at least specific team that would be focusing that area is it then external team or is it an internal team it doesn't matter but it requires specific attention because there are a lot of things like let's say event calendar there are certain events in the western

world that do not have any let's say impact in that in the description yeah and and same applies then on the weekends weekends are on from Thursday yeah yeah unless you Dubai of course yeah yeah in which case they've changed it they're very nicely changed the weekends yeah so so there are things that you have to tailor make and and of course you can do it internally but it still requires that you have a people that will be specifically managing that Mina region because I see that a number of certainly the Jordanian companies and a few Springs to mind about anymore but like they seem to be focusing on bringing games to the region as much as creating new games and that seems to be a you know nothing wrong with that it's a good business but presumably they they must be adding quite a lot of value in order to make that a business so yeah when I went mentioning competitors um so you somebody else somebody mentioned Esports uh and and that's it's something that I that our parent company um uh very involved uh we we have owned

some Esports teams and worked with influence to work with the uh the NFL around some activities I'm I'm certainly not an Esports expert and I'm always a little bit confused by how it all works but it's huge in in in in the Middle East everywhere we go the event we're running in Jordan in a couple months time there's like Esports bits before and after it and they're putting Esports in obviously not quite on the scale of Gamers eight which is the biggest Esports surprise in the world or something it's huge right so so why is Esports so huge there is that just going into that kind of competitive uh sort of rivalries or what I know Esports is Big here but I don't sense it's as big as it is in in the mean region well it's growing I mean uh first of all you know that that you mentioned earlier the error pride of Esports is finally coming becoming local yeah plays a big role and what Gamers 8 did and I went to it it was pretty awesome and impressive uh I mean we ourselves uh I mentioned earlier we hosted our first Esports event in

Iraq uh which was a bit different so it's The Dominoes and we had almost 100 000 people play in the event online all that dominoes influences guys and then the top 32 qualified played or played offline in Baghdad in an event and we never we honestly it was the first time we do such an esport event and it was the first time in Rock's history we had no expectation of the number of people that were going to join it it was just massive uh prize pools is also another thing that plays a big role I mean we give a car which is nothing compared to the 15 million that Gamers eight gave up for DOTA depends what color is right so but I think that that does uh play a role play I wrote to that yeah yeah okay and are you are you I mean I've not been to games eight so I mean like is do you sense do you agree that Esports it just seems a real driving Factor then I mean to buy the wreck side about it as well is is there any other reasons it's just that competitive nature or the fact that's I think it was decided like it

was decided exactly but I think it's like a football league we're going to do the football league yeah but but I think let's say overall why we are seeing this whole Mina being on like all the headlines and everything it is also because you know it was decided and by a number of governments at the same time that this is an industry that we want to grow and this is an industry we want to support and that's why it's growing and that's why we're here and that's why you know it it was also there three years ago but there was no panel on Mina then yeah so I think in in terms of the Esports it was similar like you know let's see what is it that we can do based on what we have in terms of players in terms of people's interests and all of that and as I said like it was decided not at all in a negative manner but uh like governments have decided to give it a strong Bush to certain industries and right now it's it's going well because we are all talking about it right yeah and I think that the Taps also to the fact that the Mena region are at least the Arabian

Peninsula puts a lot of effort also in tourism that it's kind of a soft soft power that okay there is content and then please come visit but then also like be having that visibility to Gamers as well that there is uh esport events and it kind of TAPS into the similar stuff that what we see also in actual footballers as well so yeah yeah no it's I mean you know I'm very into actual football in the UK and it's everyone's like obsessed with what's going on there at the moment the the kind of you know the numbers are eye-watering but the the it's actually people have tried this before and it hasn't this has really broken through and maybe it's just the money but I it doesn't it's working whatever it is um so let's let's talk about the industry it's something you you've obviously both involved in and you've mentioned like one thing is bringing uh game studios over but then to have a sustainable games industry you want homegrown kind of talent and I know that both of you particularly all if you're involved in one way or another but can you can you speak a little bit

you see about about how you know how you're kind of working at the moment and what what's happening in Saudi Arabia to to sort of Advance the the region and what you're working on yeah I mean there is a lot of different programs and ours was uh was just just one of them and it seems that they like there is a lot of public money if we use the term public money there to help the talent grow but I got the feeling that it's often kind of ad hoc project that okay now there is the neon neon stuff let's associate that with the with funding so far small projects to it yeah I mean so it's more like that they are nurturing a lot of Talent with via different mentoring programs which which makes perfect sense I I'm not criticizing at all but like something that the teams could plan that okay now uh I will apply it like in

Finland with business Finland we you could start planning that okay part of this is here I like these are the rules there is a regular structure and then I leveraged a publisher deal or something like that that structure isn't yet there yeah it's often like okay this is a program it runs runs its course and then we buy some other program uh for from other other partners and from the startup point of view it's kind of navigating that support there is lots of support but it's always highest Talent into yeah different uh I think but with government support anywhere that's often like that right you know the grants system moves in the UK quite a lot and and also but so what sort of programs are kind of I mean where are we at is that we've obviously got a few big Publishers as big brands that set up offices in and around the region of different places there's I know Jordan has pretty healthy the system of homegrown developers and stuff but where

who's the most advanced and and what's going on that we should kind of keep or which reasons should we keep an eye on because I know for instance in Egypt there's loads of Indie kind of small developers but have not really that I'm aware of like a bigger publisher or anything like that so I don't know when we talk about what's the Jordanian because you know Noah and others been working the kingdom of fun has been investing and in programs for 10 15 20 years I don't know so a long time a long time uh I mean I mean it's not who's the most advanced it's more of in terms of you know there's a lot of capabilities and a lot of room for growth and a lot of room for growth all over the middle region for game developers yeah and like with us I speak with my team all the time it's like based on our success story and I'm hoping we see that multiple times across the region uh and we're hoping I mean there's a lot of money being pumped into uh gaming students across demeanor yeah there's a lot of the same in Jordan uh it's like we really hope that these gaming companies focus more on profitability and are able to grow and

kind of long-term sustainability and I just kind of a hit and run yeah um and Jordan ends what's happening there's a good like at least five or six or seven studies that are doing really well phenomenal games and same thing in Saudi Arabia and in Egypt yeah it makes us proud right and the more the better but we're just hoping that uh they tend to focus more on profitability you know and long-term stability and grow bit by bit yeah but you need that you need local success stories to inspire the next wave of developers I mean if you didn't have your ovos or your supercells or house marks or remedies here you know who's it you follow you need like something you go okay we want to be like them so so where are we with with with with Sally you've obviously got like sand soft and and Savvy is it is it a case that there's you're seeing a lot of Western Publishers coming over and expressing interest and or are you seeing local things that we would never have heard of like springing up because I know but I think also sansoft and Savvy you are

mentioning just because you know we are here and we go into the international events but if you're thinking about like there is for instance there's also the national Development Fund who has never gone to any of the events but they are like fully both investing as well well as giving loan to game companies so I think there's like a lot of things that we don't really see so in that sense there's a lot of initiatives and everything and I agree with you see that it it's like maybe not the most um let's say clear system right now but also if you think about Finland 30 years ago it also wasn't so it kind of like it is just starting and like everybody is starting with like a huge bank and like huge speed and then it's maybe you know not 100 coordinated um but let's say if we are talking about going to the region I think each of the countries have their own specific kind of angles or like advantages like for instance I think probably Jordan is the one that has the most uh local technical Talent available because the universities have just done their work

for so long and like everything is really nice the community is there it's supportive everything I I can't say that about Saudi yet although it has been really really growing and developing a lot it's a function of time as exactly education isn't something that you do fast but at the same time I feel that in Saudi uh probably let's say the coordination of the support is the biggest because they are systematically looking at okay this is still missing let's do that who is doing that so it is it is something that is really being pushed and also I think that currently probably the uh the initiatives in terms of moving your company there and the incentives that you could get are highest in Saudi and that that is something that has now slowly beginning to work like I know that we already talked about this last year but it wasn't maybe 100 working then yet but now it's already starting to work so that is a good thing then I mean I don't know if you look at Dubai then they have the most I would say International companies there but they don't

necessarily have local talent so it's almost you know always like what do I want to achieve and and like what I need for it and then you choose it's interesting you mentioned the the incentives to come across so like you know all these incentives everything has a time frame right not everything's going to be there forever is is it if you're a you know if you're a studio you're doing okay but you're interested in this market and you want to is now the time to to to to grab it with both hands or absolutely because at some point you know they ultimately you want a domestic Market not necessarily bringing people in all the time so it feels like it's there's a window there that if you if you're able to do it and it makes sense to you Now's the Time to to go yeah I mean I think that definitely there is a huge need of international let's say people from the games industry to come in and help train the local people because it's not like you're going to get that from universities only like you need to have these practical programs internship programs for instance sendsoft is running multiple courses of their

internship program already and all of that is giving back to the talent pool and and uh you know helping them to at one point then start their own Studios okay and I mean what do you think how what's the because you obviously you know you've been involved in various programs in you're at 966 trying to encourage ecosystem there and with game Founders separately what what is the what is the vision what is the the timeline say you're looking at the Finnish ecosystem or the British or wherever you are is it is it Like A Five-Year Plan is it a 20-year plan when is it it is the 2030 plan a 2035 yes so where are we now that's seven years then is that right 20 years ago seven years ago okay so that it's going to be there by 2030. I mean look at something else though the whole 20 30 plan at least for Saudi is like very clearly written out like 250 Studios I don't remember that all the numbers yeah I think David's exactly exactly so in that sense it's very clear what what is being aimed for and also it is let's say waterfall down into like all the initiatives by different

Ministries everybody has their kpis so in that sense there is there is a system and there is a purpose we know we're going yeah and how far along is that at the moment you think 250 well let me just check out do you know what I get like I don't know right 10 of the way or we I don't know it's interesting it's still early days I'm going to stick with you Kennedy for a minute so I I I'm sorry to pick on you but I know because you with your game Founders initiative you've had in Estonia you've been in in KL in in Southeast Asia and do you see are there very different sort of challenges how does it compare trying to encourage startups and students in different parts of the world is it a very different experience in Saudi to what it was in in Southeast Asia it's the same sort of challenge I mean I think that the same way that we can find difference between the countries in Mina there's also differences between the regions themselves right so for instance in Saudi or let's say in Mina in general the talent the labor force is not cheap yeah in Southeast Asia it is so I mean

obviously you cannot do like an Outsourcing company in Saudi and and grow it into a huge thing and be successful in Southeast Asia you can unless you're Outsourcing people from Southeast Asia which is what happens exactly so I think in sense like they have like different profiles and all and Uplay on their strengths and that's what they're doing yeah yeah okay so the strength of of mina is that they are able to push this with funding and and they're able to start a lot of things at the same time without waiting for the first one to bring you back money so in that sense we are in a very unique situation actually with this region that is really being pushed heavily yeah I guess on the flip side as a as yeah you know you want local content for the local countries the local region but obviously for for soundstock I think it's it's the vision is to be publishing to the to the world right and and are there any uh YouTube are there any obstacles that that local companies have to overcome

before they can they can come out um yeah I mean I I only know for the startups not the giant like uh but I think that the one thing that the Saudi should do is that they like like Finnish Studios or any Studio they go to events where the deals are made so bigger push to get the Benchmark how what is the level of games elsewhere as well and putting support that it should always be as low barrier to go to gamescoms or Pocket Gamer londons or Helsinki or Tokyo game shows and and so forth so mainly came in London but that's fine the next one is Jordan the next question that's pretty easy to get to yeah yeah um is in Jordan next yeah that's uh thank you for plugging that um yeah what about sand stuff I mean what's your vision you've already you're there but you've got talking about Studios setting up in Europe is that

here or you're not allowed to say where it is not public but uh yeah so always you can tell us not too loud to say public but yeah yeah so um uh next topic so uh but what's your what's your kind of what's your focus I mean obviously you're an international publisher you're not just for that region but what what is your where was what is the vision for for sound so specifically so obviously for our internal development we are looking for a global market because why would you limit yourself only for the manner because the games are Global yeah uh for Bob listing I would say that we have two different offerings it's it's depending on the customer so if the developer is the size of Rubio they don't want us to publish their games in tier one market yeah so our value proposition to them is that yes we can help you grow your business in the mineral region while you are focusing on tier one yeah yeah and and then for smaller companies that are lacking resources is it and marketing or back-end or is it an even UA funding we

will be providing the global publishing services so really depends on that what are the needs of the developer how we can support them to actually grow their business okay okay fair enough so I was gonna so what do we if you're a developer you're here in Finland what is it you should be doing is it you should be talking to to you should you be just making sure your games are sort of localized and you know try out some some some like what what are the biggest what's the kind of lowest hanging fruit of approached this Market should you go and set up an office I would say just go to an event like go pick go to an event because I like it I'm doing audio markets I promise but let's say in general like there are events in all the countries but also there are like the big events that we see but also there are small events like in Saudi there is the monthly igda event and like all of these things yay so in in that sense just go and meet

the people and ask what they're struggling with and what is good and what is bad and then make your choice I feel it is very difficult for us to kind of like be here and be in everybody's situations and say like for you this works and for you that works so in in that sense I would literally just go and see and and you know ask for the local developers what events you have coming up maybe you can even package like two or three countries within one visit or or something like that and nice times go a bit of winter sun now as well right but easier in the summer in two months two months more than yes yeah yeah see gosh they'll be getting emails it's fine um but yeah do would you would you do you agree I mean absolutely I mean like we for us was reversed so when we tried to expand into the Greek market the first thing I did was I actually reached out to gaming studios in Greece yeah and I went and visited them sat down with them and said what they do and they're actually dirt competitors in a way yeah and then we eventually grew in the Greek market and the Greece in Greece

um but yeah it's not working right understanding where those gaming Studios fire meet them uh learn from them what works what doesn't work because each country is different from each from each market yeah so that's very no substitute for being on the ground and seeing what's going on would you 100 because come and speak to you if you've got a big game you want to publish right that's what you'd say yeah yeah exactly Finland for it yeah yeah that's why I'm here because as you can know that there's a lot of Fitness gaming companies that have been succeeding in the global market so it makes sense that we have a people on the ground fair enough have you got any any final advice you see You'd like throw us ah that did that you took me by a surprise yeah yeah I think we can't answer our last minute and a half so I don't know if anybody's got a question I know we're kind of its end of the day so we're small audiences anybody want to ask a question about the market we have here or small assemble group oh there is one there's a man at the back of the mustache someone getting a mic

it's one of ours yeah there we go so this is more sort of a general question about getting people interested in uh specifically in the Mina region do you reckon there's still a bit of an element of culture shock for a lot of people coming from outside of that region and how do you hope people will overcome that in both their personal and a company basis why culture shock do you mean just got you know it's just like something different it's the other side of the world for a lot of people you know it's like a 11 hour flight and it's just a wholly different place you know for people who want to go there and want to experience it how do you hope that they'll kind of overcome that initial that that initial shock of going somewhere so different it's to be fair I mean Dubai aside which is apparently TripAdvisor the number one you know yeah you're probably not going to go people a lot of other people aren't necessarily going to Saudi for for a whole day already so it is a new

place to go so I don't know I don't know what we what do we think I went it was great I mean it was different but it was um yeah at least I feel that as long as you travel there with an open mind you'll do fine like it's that's the main thing if you go there with the like what like a stuff on your eyes then you might not like it but as long as you have open mind it it it's it's gonna be great still I mean I have the experience of living in Saudi Arabia almost two years and I it was it was more or less my first uh first visit to uh to any of the countries well besides Dubai to uh to the region and I would say that there there are already such big networks of expats there that it would just make sense to see like who you already know and like reach out and and and a lot of um kind of like expats tend to uh network with each other or live in the similar places or something like that so it's really not that big so as you said if you kind of keep an open mind I wouldn't say that it's it's a huge

culture shock and at the end of the day like if you're going there for with a purpose then you're not necessarily going there to you know have a program to live yeah but no yeah it's a fascinating I mean it's good to have a bit of different culture as well right I think yeah go on sorry oh it's just one thing go and try food that will be sold go and try the food like they do they are very generous with the portions and there's a lot of good food cool I think I think we'll probably draw draw a line there we want we're on time so that's it then please give a big round of applause to our panel thank you very much end of the day [Music]