Netflix's $83bn Warner deal doesn't value games & why award shows hate mobile | Week in Mobile Games

[music] Hello, welcome to the pocket gamer.biz podcast weekend mobile games where we discuss the week's news and provide some insights. I'm Craig Chapel, head of content at pocket gamer.biz. With me as ever, Aaron Assel, our news editor. How's it going, Aaron? What you been up to?
Yeah, good here. Thank you. I was at a Jaquai concert a few nights ago. That's been the highlight of my week. Um, very cool gig. Um, they played for a long time as well. It was about 2 and a half hours there, which I wasn't expecting. Basically, they they doubled the length of like every song, which yeah, really added to the run time. But yeah, it was quite fun. You know, it worked for that kind of music. you know, there'd just be a little breakdown set and slowly build back up and then, you know, come back in on, you know, the chorus or whatever after a few minutes interlude, which I think worked better on some songs than others to be fair, but um it was good

and funny that they actually they opened with my favorite JRIP song, which is Don't Give Hate a Chance. So, it was like, oh, you know, this is great. Straight in favorite song, you know, good vibes and then it's like, well, that's this kind of peaked for me with the first song. Obviously, you know, it was all good. Obviously, you know, there's bigger songs by them like Virtual Insanity and stuff which were great, but yeah, it was just funny. I don't think I've been to a gig before where like the first song is my favorite song that they do and then it's like, yeah, kind of I'm satisfied now, you know, whatever else happens. But no, it was very good. Weirdly, it was on a a Tuesday, so I was out of office Tuesday, which I don't know why it was on a Tuesday. That was quite a a long evening. Um, I I won't say too much um in case, you know, any of the pocket gamer bosses check in on the podcast about what what time I got home Wednesday morning. But um yeah, it was a long long evening.

Choir, it feels like not in your era. That's a band that was in my when I grew up.
Yeah. Well, you know, into some retro music from before my time. That's how you know you're getting old when people start calling it retro vintage.
Yeah, I was quite impressed actually. So, they've got a new album coming out next year apparently and they did like one or two songs from the upcoming album which I think often obviously no one's going to know it like that kind of thing is a bit hit or miss usually at gigs I think when there's new music but they're actually like really good songs so I'm now actually interested in the new album that's going to come out. Uh but yeah, again given, you know, how old they are, how long ago their music was about, you know, I didn't know how their new stuff would be kind of, you know, of the same caliber.
They still got it. Was good.
Yeah.
Thanks, Aaron. So, as for myself, I've actually been watching Stranger Things, the new season, and I don't know. I I feel it was okay. Very okay, I would

say. like it's fun, but I think last season was so good. I thought the characters, the story was all really well put together. There was like some iconic moments that, you know, people have been people would have talked about online. I'll try not to spoil it, but with the music this season, it's going to finish on on Boxing Day, I believe. But like if I was to a year from now, if I was to think about this season so far, I don't know what I don't know what bit I would think, oh yeah, that bit was so good.
I don't think there's I don't think there's really any of those moments. There's a big there's a big battle, I guess, that's quite fun, but yeah, I don't know.
Have you seen Aaron? Yeah, I was say I feel similarly because um
uh I I didn't watch series 4 for a long time because I didn't really like series 3 that much and then I think it was sort of August September time I finally got round to series 4 and like you said you

know that was greatly blew my expectations away I think that's up there with like series one lots of great moment that was you know that was quite fresh for me and looking forward to going into series five and then yeah, as you say, I was kind of watching it thinking like it's fine. There's not really anything wrong with it, but it's not really standing out.
My problem is it feels like it's just waiting for the end.
Yeah. Like kind of filler in a way.
And so it's all just sort of running in on the spot, whereas last time it was a lot of big reveals about the whole plot or everything that's been going on. And again, like running up that hill was really like super brilliant moment. The villain was fantastic. And this season, I feel like all of that momentum that they had, even the ending, they've just decided, yeah, don't worry about it.
And I presume there'll be just like a three episodes of a really mad rush to get it all finished.

Yeah. And I think as well because I don't know in terms of series 4 spoilers like how they to be obviously that was a few years ago but kind of the way the way that ended before seeing any trailers for series 5 or anything like I kind of felt like the ending of four like series 5 would have to pick up basically immediately.
Yeah. because it looked like the world was ending basically and then so it felt a bit like it's diminished the threat somewhat that it's like oh actually they just kind of carry on as normal
they're basically retreading ground at the moment
like I feel like this is the things that happened in season 4 they're just doing it again right anyway all that so we we'll we'll get into things as always a quick shout out gamer connects pocket gamer connects London uh it's taking place in January 19th to 20th. That's the big one, biggest one of the year. So, if you're interested, I think there's still some discounts going. So, check those out and hopefully I'll see you there. If you are there, drop me a message if you'd like to meet uh Aaron,

I believe you'll be there. Paige will be there. We'll all be there. Can't wait. Okay, so the big news of the week and it broke just after our podcast, I think last week. I can't remember if it was that day or the on the Friday. I actually think it was the Friday, which is usually a bad news day, depending on what you think of this. Netflix is set to acquire Warner Brothers in an 82.7 billion deal. It marks one of the most significant acquisitions in entertainment history. Obviously, it will see Netflix snap up Warner's film and television studios, including HBO and HBO Max, as well as pick up key franchises like The Wizard of Oz, Harry Potter, and DC. The deal will also see the streaming giant pick up Warner Brothers's games division. That includes Rock Steady Studios, which does Batman Arkham series and the the kind of the ill- fated Suicide Squad. Never Studios, Mortal Kombat, TT Games, and a lot of Lego titles. Avalanche Software, they do the Hogwarts Legacy, which I think was 35 million sales, something ridiculous.

They're working on the sequel at the moment. And Warner Brothers Games Montreal. I think they've done a couple games and one of them was an a Batman Arkham game. In the announcement from Netflix about this, so it's it's a done deal with Warner Brothers, there's no mention of the games division or plans or Netflix's plans for that. In the original announcement, the transaction was expected to close in the next 12 to 18 months after Discovery Oh, here we go. After the separation of Discovery Global into a new publicly traded company in Q3 2026. It's all subject to regulatory approval. And then just as you thought, oh wow, this is the biggest deal ever, bear in mind that Netflix was in a bidding war and appeared to win. Paramount clearly very angry made a $18 billion allcash bid for Warner Brothers Discovery to take the whole lot, which is mad. I've been reading that people seem to be expecting further bids to be

made in this bidding war. It's worth also noting that there is speculation that I think Jared Kushner is involved in the Paramount deal somehow because of course Donald Trump's son-in-law who was also involved in the big acquisition of EA by mostly by the Saudi Piff along with partners affinity partners I want to say which is Jared Krishna's group and silver lake which is an investment. So the speculation that basically Trump's closest friends or closer friends and his son-in-law are involved in the Paramount deal and that might help push that deal through. So we will see about that. So, we we reported this week, so we got the kind of the jump on this, I guess, that Netflix co-CEO Gregory Peters in a conference presentation said Netflix didn't attribute any value to Warner Brothers games as part of it $82.7 billion deal. Now, if you bear in mind, Hogwarts Legacy did very well. They also have

mobile games. Some of them have done well. Hogwarts uh sorry, Game of Thrones Conquest, I think it's some exception. well, maybe around the $1 billion mark in its lifetime. So, it's kind of surprising even and with the Mortal Kombat franchise, which I don't know how that would work from an IP level if you just take if they're still valuing that IP or not, but the games which that IP runs on this apparently they didn't attribute any value to. So all these people talking about this trans media flywheel or whatever like Netflix is not thinking about his games division and Peter said that while Warner Brothers games have done great work in the game space didn't actually attribute any value to that from the get-go because they're relatively minor compared to the grand scheme of things. Now we're super excited to bring some of those properties that they've built which is a great example of that have been done quite well and we think that we can incorporate that into what we're offering. They've got great studios and great folks working there. So, we think that there's definitely an opportunity there, but just to be clear, we haven't really built that into our deal model. I think anyone that's working in their games division, anyone at Warner

Brothers games, that that's very worrying for them. I did say, I think I said before last week, I was quite personally I was quite worried about the console division because they have ultimately closed a lot of some of their console stuff. They had the studio, I remember it name, Blue Studio, Blue something. They closed that down. I had some experienced developers there. They've redone their strategy uh last year and I just like in theory some of these studios could fit but if they're not going to target console on PC then they're not going to at all. There's been some mixed quickly there's been some mixed reaction to the deal. So Turboright this is when after the initial Netflix acquisition announcement said the acquisition offer is a battle to control the next decade of trans media entertainment. Simple Zero CEO Raphael Brown said he expected Warner Brothers games to start hemorrhaging a few months after the merger completes. There was an interesting comment from Game Economist Consultings Philip Black. He said the mythical trans media future that some believe the deal unlocks

already exists through anime and Japan solved the shared IP across TV, film, and games problem decades ago because it audience actually wants it. Meanwhile, the Mackenzie consultants are still workshopping pitch decks about how Fallout's $200 million TV budget will drive 50K in marginal game revenue. Or better yet, Ryan CEO is just justifying IP narcissism on how Arcad's Emmy was worth the $250 million budget. I've been increasingly convinced that the trans media first trap is driven by Western worship of Hollywood celebrity culture, which is why the eastern execution of this is ignored.
As you say, it's bizarre. But like I could understand it obviously if Netflix were like the game side wasn't the priority in the deal but to say it wasn't even like a consideration when they have their own like games vision already. I know it's different types of games but still yeah it seems quite shocking really that they just say like no we didn't even think about it.

And also then um I guess so obviously the the value of the acquisition isn't you know vastly more than like the acquisition u of like Activision Blizzard by Microsoft mix that was like 69 million. So like you know obviously games are big business which we all know probably everyone listening to this knows that but you know you think all these massive you know cultural phenomenon IPs like you know Game of Thrones and stuff Sopranos that are get being bought through the HBO side of it alone all these massive big budget shows and films getting bought up isn't ultimately a million miles ahead of the Activision visit deal and yet they're not interested in the game side of stuff. I guess my point there is games obviously are massive and you can even these massive franchises in the film and TV side are only a bit more than like one big games company of value.
I think um what they're valued is just

the IP.
So but not the actual games I anyway the whole yeah like I said the whole thing just shows that I think for all of Netflix's bluster about the game strategy and they always are they always talk about it oh it's growing really well but they never say by how much. M and I think this is another sign that that that whole strategy is complete a complete and utter mess and they have no real designs on it practically going forward at the moment unless they unless they come out of an announcement if they think this is bad PR but that's not a strategy right so that's the big deal what else have you got
so another story this week is that Duolingo is doing a crossover with Genchin Impact which they've said is an unprecedented collaboration. Basically, a few Genchin Impacts appearing in Dolingo. Um, and players can kind of earn rewards

for Genchin Impact by playing Dolingo over like consecutive days. So, it's I guess trying to encourage Yeah. Genchin Impact players to try out um Dolingo. I guess yeah, you have to play it consecutively. Um, I think it's three days to get um like a certain like avatar and name card for Genchin Impact and then you can get like a a recipe and then a redemption code for gems to use in Genchin Impact and by completing like quests in Dolingo. So I think um maybe what's most interesting is kind of this it feels like it ties into Dolingo's kind of gamification um you know obviously they bought um ne most of the Nex team um earlier this year to kind of further gify Dolingo and then it seems like another kind of push in that direction to actually try and get gamers playing Dolingo and perhaps

get kind of into the the gameplay loop, so to speak. Obviously, it's a learning app rather than a, you know, a direct game. Um, yeah, I thought it's quite noteworthy that, yeah, they're doing this collaboration with, you know, a massive mobile game. Yeah, I guess it's try try and get more people on board.
Yeah, I think it's really cool from Dualingo to be doing this. It just shows how serious that they are about games.
Yeah. And uh obviously they did with the aqua hire of the next beat team and setting that up. I think this is the first probably of many partnerships that they'll they'll do to tap the game audience and yeah I think it's kind of I think it's pretty smart and we forget how just how big still Genchin Impact is. It's absolutely huge still. Right. The next story. So there's a lot of debate and this happens every year just just so we're clear. Uh there's a lot there's a lot of debate going on right now about two two awards shows. The Game Awards. So, we're recording this on a Thursday. It takes place basically at midnight for UK people and the BAFTA

games awards and it's the recognition of mobile games. Do they get it done? So, at the game awards, there is a category for best mobile game. So, there is recognition in one specific category. There's also recognition in best esports game by the way, Mobile Legends Bang Bang. Best mobile game. Let's run through them. Destiny Rising. At the rate it's going, I wouldn't be surprised if it closes. But I guess that you have you do have to remember these awards. They try Well, it goes both ways. I guess they're trying to reflect the quality of the game. Maybe the game is good but didn't do well. But in short, if it was good, it probably would have done well, right? So, uh, but mobile's a bit of a different piece of monetization, but anyway, it might close. So, that would be a bit of a strange winner. Persona 5, the Phantom X hasn't really gained traction on mobile, but again, maybe maybe it could be in there. Sonic Rumble quite a surprise because it's a big IP but the developer you covered Aaron they admitted so Sega developed Roio published effectively and they admitted

like they're reworking the game and this was already after like at least a year delay but they were days away from launch so they've admitted that it's not maybe up to par where they want it to be and yet it's nominated for an award for best [clears throat] game pretty derby now good game great It's old. It's been out for quite a few years, but the worldwide release was this year. So, I I mean, we could like fine, I guess, right? They if the western a if it's a US audience, right, that I haven't been playing it, then that kind of makes sense. So, I'm kind of happy with that. Wthering waves I thought was a bit odd because it released Well, I thought it released like two years ago. When's it when's the anniversary? I was going to say, I'm pretty sure it's like May 2024. I'm surprised it's like eligible.
Okay. Yeah, I think it is that. And so I guess it's it's a really I actually really like this game. So it is a good game to be nominated. Weird that it didn't seem to I guess make it last year. I haven't double checked. I

presume it's not nominated twice, but it feels weird. I was kind of old, but okay, at least it's getting recognition now.
But it's kind it feels just like a bit of a weird bunch, right? But I kind of get it because it's just what the Game Awards is, isn't it? It's it's quite bastic. It is very unashamedly PC and console focused. And these are like the big IPs basically that people might be more familiar with and the types of games people will be more familiar with which is it looks like your a lot of these look like your 3D console PC games. That's why they're on that list is my theory. If we look at BAFTA, I could be wrong. I was looking through it and I was like, sure, Monument Valley 3 is the only mobile game on here, which is now, I think, available on Switch. And that was out of a a long list of at least 64 games, something like that. So, that's quite shocking, I think, of a long list. And they they've got people, you know, mobile people on on the panel. So, I don't know where that's fallen down in terms of in terms of it sounds

like they've got the right people on the panel, but I don't I just don't know why they're not nominated. Now, I have some theories. One theory, you have to pay to to get on the long list to to be nominated for a BAFTA Games Awards. This is like I guess it's not really a secret. It's like an open secret is clearly listed in the nomination form how you get nominated. So there are fees to enter for any game. 264 that includes that before September 11th for within 30 days of your release to nominate or if it's later than 30 days of your release, it's £528. There's not massive amounts of money, but I guess if you're an indie, that's like quite a lot. Hopefully, you got a publisher to work with. And I think so with BAFTA, and I heard this before, I think there is absolutely an element of the mobile games industry just isn't nominating itself for these things. Maybe it's just they just don't see the value. So, we can blame the organizers, which I will a bit, but also I think mobile publishers don't help themselves. They don't engage. And probably because

they just don't really want to. They just don't what's the point? the whole marketing like with the game awards not really baff but with the game awards the whole market it's a whole marketing vehicle the whole night is about new game trailers and announcements it's not really about the awards that's kind of weirdly it's called the game awards but that's the sideh show right and that is not how generally mobile publishers engage with their marketing obviously they do these kind of user acquisition campaigns and then you have our special words right KPIs LTV ROI etc it's just a different way to get eyeballs and players is. So, I kind of get it. I think it's a real shame that still the most played platform. Like, yeah, it makes the most revenue, but like the most played games in the world aren't recognized at two of the most prestigious awards shows. I think something has gone wrong there. At least the game awards is putting a category together. BAFTA got rid of its category, which I think the last time it had it was a sponsored category. So, there's

just no room for it. Now, I guess people could say what what would you vote for? Who who would make it this year, which I think is almost a valid almost valid, but we had Aaron, you've been working on this list, right? New games released in the past year and the games you've got that I think could be on there. Kingshot is a great game. Delta Force, which I'm actually kind of surprised not on the mobile list, but Arj 2 maybe. Color Block Jam. It is not the game that looks like a AAA product, but it is very popular. And as as an aside from that, which is not why our games get nominated, but it has been very successful. Disney Solitaire, I I know it's a solitaire game, but it's very well like made game. Doing really well, very popular. Uses a massive license. surprised that wouldn't get mentioned. And then potentially there's a couple other ones. So I think there are games that could do it. The last thing I'll say is I just wanted to read out the Mijiwan CEO Christian Love Stat. They

make the Battle of Poltopia, which is a very well-loved mobile game. It's also on Steam, very popular, and it and it totally goes against all the free-to-play stuff really. And he's put an open letter titled, "The games industry is biased. It's time to fix that." And effectively he's saying what what we've just kind of gone through is why do these award shows not reflect culturally like not reflect what all these people are playing. Why do they feel it's not culturally appropriate to do that? Um he said yeah gaming currently represents 55% of the global gaming market 3 billion players but it's often ignored or even looked down on multiple awards platforms and industry bodies routinely overlook overlook it when the laurels are handed out. He says, "While there are some amazing first mobile first titles like Monument Valley, which managed to get the industry's attention, many other extremely popular and successful titles do not. Mobile games like Clash of Clan, Temple Run, Crossy Road, Car Saga, are critically acclaimed acc claimed and commercially successful, yet are never

or rarely acknowledged at game awards. I guess on that bit, one bit I'd probably disagree with some of those games are just very old and I know it's all about live, but those like Temple Run is a very old IP. Then he goes on to say, you know, why do they get ignored? Because mobile is perceived by too many as a world of predatory monetization and low quality. I previously called this out myself and push for change in the mobile sector. However, just because games like that do exist in the mobile market, it should not diminish the achievements of the market's best games. It perhaps makes them more impressive. And if we're honest with ourselves, there are AAA industry darlings crammed with the same monetization mechanics. And then he also goes on to say, "Awards and media shape the narrative of what counts as culturally or creatively valuable. Where mobile is excluded, we send a message to developers, investors, and publishers that mobile is not a place for ambition or artistry. That narrative influences hiring, funding, and who gets a spotlight on stage." It goes to say, "If we celebrate innovation, we should celebrate it." I agree with the sentiment, but I I I disagree with some

of the points made because again, it doesn't re does it really affect investment. Does it really affect publisher deals? You know, the popularity of these games. Again, it's just the way that mobile games reach. I although I think it does. And I'm not saying that any of this makes mobile games a failure cuz it doesn't. Like, do you need this stuff? Not really. But ultimately, I think like the teams behind these games deserve the recognition like everybody else does. And yeah, you could be sitting there thinking, "Oh, yeah, it's lovely to have nice things. You don't need to, but it is nice to have nice things and for teams to get recognized along with others." I guess that's the only reason that I I think it should be celebrated and the industry is just very strange like you you shouldn't then just call you should just call it the AAA awards or something not the game if it's called the game awards or the BAFTA games awards it's inclusive of everything otherwise just be clear of your intent and don't and again I kind of get sick and tired of especially from BAFTA in the past we don't ignore mobile you know it's just like well you kind of do and again the other side but the other side

of the coin is I think if anyone in the mobile games industry wants this kind of recognition which it may be that it just doesn't then you do have to shout about it and you do have to nominate because if you don't do that then we just end up in this once again we'll end up with the same conversation next year
I think the main thing I I wanted to add in but um yeah I think the fact that particularly like Persona and Sonic for me being not to you know throw any shade at these specific games but them being among like the potential best mobile game of the year does very much feel like, oh, these are game IPs that we know from consoles. So, the mobile games, you know, yeah, they can go in the potential best mobile games rather than, you know, really looking into, as you said, stuff like Block Jam that maybe people on the console, PC, PC side might not be as familiar with, but if they actually played them, they might actually think, you know, these are really great mobile games. They'd rather just go with stuff that they're already vaguely familiar

with. what it's all about. Obviously, you know, you have stuff like Uma Muse in there, which I think, as you said, obviously it's been around for a long time in Japan, but I think that's a kind of a good entry for this year in particular. That feels fair for that to be in there. But yeah, overall it, yeah, that the list kind of felt again like Weathering Waves. I'm not really sure how it works, whether like do they normally have games in there that are more than a year old.
It could. I don't know what the reason would be. Maybe there is one. I just don't know what it is. I am glad it is getting some recognition. [clears throat] So, like for that one, it feels like it falls out of the eligibility period.
Yeah.
But at the same time, it if it didn't get last year, I'm kind of glad it's in this year because it is very good. So,
like that I'm not overly frustrated about.
Yeah. I'm more just confused with what the rules are, but I agree. Like,
you know, I'm happy for it to to be there.
Well, I think this is really essentially what it is for all of them. We're just confused what the rules are for mobile

and is it the same rules that apply to other categories? I'm just not really not really sure. But remember u you go back to the story from last year that um Squadbusters they got a trailer at the game awards and apparently it was just very difficult to convince Jeff Kylie to to promote a mobile game even with a trailer even when they're giving him money and saying please please can we have this trailer? And so that does tell you what the show's all about. So that is really why those games reflect the show. They don't re they don't reflect the industry. Um so yeah, that that's one of the big debates going on, but I do always look forward to the Game Awards to be honest. It's it's quite an interesting show again just because of all the game announcements and trailers. Right. Uh we seem to have had a bit of a technical problem. So Aaron has left the show mostly probably because he was bored of me talking I'm sure. but he is no longer here. So, I'm going to quickly, very quickly run through a

couple other bits. So, I did a uh interview, a video interview. I'm going to be doing more of those as we go into the new year and beyond. Don't worry, Peggy is still around for anyone that watches the our interview videos, but I'm going to be doing more. And I did one with Tyranno Studios chief gaming officer, Michael Rubinelli, who is has been working in the industry for decades. He's been at EA. He's been at Disney. Mattel played him when he was just before he was at Disney. And so he's been through all of the industry cycles, the new trends, whether that's go from 2D to 3D, browser, mobile, freeto play, browser, social, web 3, which is been doing with Torano, which is renamed from WAX Studios, which starts web free. So, we had a really interesting chat about first mover advantage or second mover advantage, how you how studios actually adapt and whether you should even try to take on some of these trends cuz as we all know, especially with web 3 didn't really it hasn't worked out so far despite all of the investment that's been put in it. So, whether you should even look at it

and I think for big companies, yeah, you should look at it. But the interesting thing he was saying and I think things probably all know but it's nice to hear it is is just small companies it's a bit easier or new companies it's easier and you can build for these new trends. So specifically like mobile freeto play you just built for it and the example that he used which is interesting is is supercell obviously and they obviously caught the mobile freeto-play wave in the west very early and they did try to do browser with gunshine that failed so famously they pivoted to heyday which is really a copy inspired by farville clash of clans inspired by backyard monsters from kicksai and kicksai had been doing freeto play but they was stuck in browser superstar saw the opportunity and they went for it and Kicksai was just kind of too slow at the time to really adapt and so Supercell kind of took that off and and then we just kind of go through the years of that and hopefully the aim was to get a lot of really good insights and useful advice, practical advice for anyone out there

that's working at a studio, running a studio, thinking of founding a new one and just some of the things you can think about um and whether how to know if it's possible, whether a buzzword actually means anything or it's just a load of hot air cooked up by Silicon Valley. And then the last story I very quickly wanted to look at was there's a studio called Starbury Games, a developer of Merge Mayor, and the CEO and co-founder Antihhatara has been explaining how the studio has changed its approach to production and new games ideation, and they're going all in on AI. So, he said, "Our approach is deliberately scrappy. Build quick prototypes in one to two weeks. Test them with real users. Learn fast and move on. We've always we've already seen validation of this approach. Our game designer Sven Schmidt took a number one place in the recent AI hackathon by Supercell with his project Data Gotchi, a twist on virtual pets powered by AI. Uh they've also launched their first prototype from this track, King Maker, a

game that experiments with AIdriven gameplay in ways traditional design couldn't have. So he's interesting. He does admit, you know, AI tools are powerful, but they're not perfect. They require new workflows, skills, and new ways of thinking about production. Meanwhile, the other kind of track, I guess, is is the AI games. Like, how how can games be different? He says they face even steeper challenges. They're completely new to players, and there is no defined genre or corresponding player expectations. He said the opportunity is too significant to ignore. Now there's been a lot of debate recently in the industry about whether even AI about AI in games and how I think for certain especially premium AAA games there's been a consumer backlash against this but naturally there's also been really studios even if they're not public about it most are using it somewhere in their production pipeline and there's some new studios popping up that are all in on AI some are shifting like this some are keeping very quiet about it there's probably very very small minority that aren't using it at all. Again, it comes out in different ways. I think what I

think one of the biggest issues among consumers is using it for voice acting, for assets, and premium games, things like that. Really interesting that they're going to do this. I'm curious as always where we are like in a year, two years time. What What does it all look like? Is the backlash too much or everyone's just going to do it because that's the way the wind's blowing. Right. So, Aaron, I'm really sorry. You came back. I waited everyone. Aaron is back just for the end of the podcast. Yeah, sorry. Hello everyone. Some uh computer troubles today.
Anyway, I'm really sorry, Aaron, but we're going to stop her.
It's all right. Glad I made it back.
I thought you weren't coming back to us. I thought your laptop is is finished now. [clears throat] We'll wait for you. We'll wait for us to send you the new one. It's not a couple teams. I think I think his laptop might actually be destroyed. [laughter] Right. So, as I say, that brings us to the end of a slightly chaotic week of mobile games and really a slightly chaotic week. Yeah.
Oh, I didn't mention I got locked out of my Google account and then and then couldn't see the meet I had yesterday, etc. Chaos. Absolute chaos this week.

But thanks everybody. We hope you enjoyed the We hope you still enjoyed the show and have a great interview week. Have a great weekend
for the Christmas episode next week.
Yeah, we're all going to be with our Christmas jumpers again and very hopeful that our deputy editor, Paige Cook, will be making a comeback to the show. Very excited. And yeah, we'll do our end of year wrap-up. Right, have a good weekend. See you later. Goodbye.