Making Sense of Web3 Trends - The Metcast by Naavik

[Music] hello and welcome to the metacast crypto Corner brought to you by navic I'm your host nickovoi today's episode isn't strictly about web3 gaming but is instead dedicated to the broader topic of staying on top of understanding web 3 trends for anyone who's involved in web3 you will appreciate how lightning fast the entire space moves every single day there are some major new development every week there's some new NFC project that comes along and captures a huge amount of Mind share huge amounts of trading volume and every month whatever the prevailing meta is is totally upended and the rules of the game get Rewritten by the next hot hotness so what we thought was a reasonably fundamental truth just a short while ago is now woefully outdated this is true for everyone working and building in web 3 whether you're making games or you're an empty project or you're doing D5 uh

regardless of vertical and that is why I wanted to bring our two guests uh onto the Pod today my guests today are both independent analysts who cover the web three space uh they both write sub stack newsletters which are both excellent uh Illuminating insightful in their own ways but they are very different and this is why I love having them on the show together today uh they do have a shared goal uh which is to stay on top of web 3 Trends understand what's going on share with an audience hey what the heck am I doing here in this in this space and so I'll uh I'm really excited to have them on the show so we can glean some insights about their work and how they work to understand this space and share that with our listenership today so our first guest uh today is Thomas pan uh he writes a daily newsletter called t-pan on web3 which provides uh in my opinion at least a fun and entertaining analysis of what is driving the web 3 Trends and news of the day tpan welcome to the pod

thanks Nico I'm excited to be here excited to share you know what I'm learning what I know which isn't that much more than everyone else and um you know share my process and what the hell is going on in this space possible great to have you here uh our second guest Chris citritis uh I'm sorry I should have asked you for pronunciation hopefully I didn't Massacre too badly uh he writes a newsletter called spatial awareness uh Which is less frequent than t-pains um but it goes really deep on topics uh especially as it relates to established brands from web 2 coming into web 3 and you know building in that space innovating in that space Chris welcome to the pod yeah thanks for having us uh excited to talk more about uh all the topics we have lined up for tonight awesome great well the first question I have for both of you I'm going to start with uh tpan is uh how did you get into the sub stack newsletter business and why and how did you get into web3 uh

what made you decide to to cover this crazy crazy space that we all operated yeah great question I think you know a lot of folks who've joined this space over the past couple years have similar yet different stories so what I mean by that I'll I'll just share how I got in here um I first learned and you know bought my first nft in January 2021 like literally hundreds of thousands of others I joined through MBA Topshop by Dapper Labs uh great company great strategy great products um and honestly I came for the money and I stayed for everything else uh I don't think I am profitable from a Top Shot perspective but what I realized was as a growth guy I've had a decade of experience um in web 2 marketing and growth related roles at large startups at small startups Nico we've crossed Paths of course um I realize that there's something going on here from more of a qualitative

and quantitative standpoint that fascinated me so um after topshot I just continued to dive into the the niche of the nft space within web3 and I was fascinated with the community the culture the Creator aspects of what was going on and that sort of led me to the broader web 3 space and when I share my story and similar to many others it got to a point where my behavior completely changed and what what I mean by that was I used to consume a lot of my social media on Instagram primarily me games catch up with friends the DMS all that fun stuff and that changed in a wholesale manner I started to only be on Twitter and Discord and just lurk like crazy all my non-sleeping all my non-working hours were on those platforms I just started to just follow different folks and I got to a point where I realized why not be a little bit more serious about this not an interest not a hobby

but a passion of sorts and that comes by pretty rarely I think a lot of people are interested in a lot of things but it really gets to a different degree when you realize you have a passion about something so I decided to initially take a sabbatical for my full-time job um to do two things one was connect with a lot more people in the web 3 space Chris is one of them I'm grateful to have met him early on in my journey and the second was to itch the scratch of writing I've always been curious and wanted to write outside of you know prior to April this year I literally only wrote One public piece and that was actually being laid off five years ago which fortunately people on LinkedIn found helpful and useful um and I just thought there's something more but I didn't quite have the right topic or the right mental or emotional space to do it lo and behold being on sabbatical helps a lot so I thought I was gonna write once or twice a week um and literally the next week I started realizing I want to write every day so I've been writing five times a week or

almost five times a week if I'm traveling you know there might be exceptions but five times a week for six months straight so uh yesterday was number 123 today will be 124. I'll start writing after this podcast awesome I I have to say um I have really enjoyed your writing uh I you know I think I've probably read your very first edition or certainly got started very early on um and I don't think it's unfair or or exaggerated to say that there aren't that many insightful writers for web3 because it is it's a very fast moving space you know as I said in my intro and so I definitely have appreciated your writing uh you know you don't exclusively write about games and neither does Chris but I I thought that because the space moves so fast and there's so many learnings from the broader culture and community of web3 you know you mentioned hey I'm now on Twitter exclusively I'm now on Discord like I found myself doing the same Journey you know obviously I'm not writing about web3 uh I'm trying to

build games and trying to cover the space through this podcast but it's been a really interesting uh similar journey I hear this a lot where it's like okay what I was doing before I got into web 3 and got red pilled um it's quite different to what I'm doing now uh and that's something that is to your point T-Pain is it's quite rare it doesn't happen that often um that's something that significant happens where you're like oh wow like is a passion of mine I'm now like truly red pilled into the space I'm buying nfts I've got a monkey as my profile picture you know like this and and I I say that with some jest but it's actually a really powerful and meaningful Thing Once you actually get into that space so when you speak about the journey you know and and our listeners hopefully uh will share some of them will share this or someone will always appreciate uh how unique it is to have these types of experiences um they don't come very often so anyway

thank you very much for sharing that Journey uh Chris same question for you what was your journey into web three how did you become a uh sub stack newsletter writer and uh you know what is driving your idea of what to cover because again your your coverage is quite different to what tpans is and by the way listeners uh all of the links to Chris's and t-pains um newsletter sub Stacks will be in the show notes so don't worry we'll we'll link out to all of those um I endorse them I find them useful uh and hopefully you will too so press take it away uh what's your journey into web three yeah I mean it's very similar to Thomas's I mean we got in around the same time uh maybe for different reasons I had been aware of Bitcoin and had been using it but the thing that I hadn't really taken note of was the culture that was surrounding or starting to surround ethereum based projects and web3 at large so it had taken some time for me in like last summer a lot of

digestion over the first year of really being in the space so I mean my suggestion for anyone starting to write is like you can really only write something meaningful if you have you know kind of gathered enough information internally and it was completely by mistake too I mean I I had loved writing you know my entire life and into working in a few other different software startups but um I knew something was different about it in ways that I at first couldn't fully articulate and as time had gone on it was like the clouds kind of like dissipated and I was able to make a better discernment as to like what to focus on and what to care about so um you know as far as like deciding on what to write on we'll definitely get into that more but um what's really kind of Forge my path is just what is interesting at the moment and what is different and like slowing down with information and being able to like have a level of discernment where you're able to like recognize like oh this is more important this is not more important and even with like the

recent changes in the market um seeing how and we'll get into this later with some of the changes for like Creator royalties for example that things change and uh you know nothing nothing is static but there are there are techniques and ways to try to stay on top of stuff and none of us on the call can say that we're like 100 engaged it's impossible but uh you know there are techniques and ways to to stay on top of stuff talking to smart people is definitely one of the best ways so getting into writing complete accident uh starting with sub stack was largely at uh tpan's uh kind of suggestion because I knew I had been using mirror and I didn't want to use medium because it just seemed way too cliche and I thought like substack had a lot of the features that I was looking for as a writer and moving into like adding mixed media content down the line like you know appearing on podcasts starting at starting your own or doing video stuff because you know not everyone's going to be engaged to read a 5 000 word essay you have to recognize that you're you know you're not just I'm not just writing for my for the audience I'm also

writing for myself to learn it helps for uh I just felt like that was the easiest way for me to learn and then as time went on formulating ideas in a way that made sense for me really helped for you know Translating that to other people it was it just made everything a lot easier so um that's what's been up in the last year in a nutshell awesome um I have a the first kind of core question I have for for you guys and then we're gonna actually we are going to talk about creative royalties next because that's uh the hot hotness and again it's very timely and topical you know things move like a million miles an hour and suddenly that's the thing that we're all talking about but let's start with this this question first because I think this is uh this is core to you know whatever topic you are covering um you know there's this fire hose of information that's coming out of web3 every day in a way that honestly I have not you know I've been working in games and and consumer internet for for quite a while now and I have never seen this volume of of change happen so quickly right like this is it's moving faster than than I I recall certainly from

other Industries um that I've been a part of in the in the past um how do you stay on top of the trends and I know that we can't all be 100 on top of every trend on every chain you know I I I'm building on Solana so I focus mostly on Solana and I look at eth obviously because that's the big you know the thousand pound gorilla in the room um but uh you guys you know you're doing this for a living essentially or you know at least part of your living aha he's covering this thing for real how do you do it and I'm talking specifically about a logistical like what's your workflow how are you covering these things who are you talking to what happens on a day-to-day basis so that you feel you are on top of the trends that you care to cover um on a daily basis what tools do you use what are your workflows uh why don't we start with Chris on this one sure um I can start with with trying to stay organized because I think as creators that can be something that can be challenging shout out to notion for changing the way that I was working or

digesting or organizing information I think having the more you can organize your own personal life the more you can you can kind of make sense of things so I don't really track my personal life any differently than I track work it's all one thing if I have I have to mow the lawn then that's you know I have to weigh that importance during the day as far as like am I going to mow the lawn or am I going to write an article about VR Tech today you know it or you know you have to just wear your options I think first the biggest the biggest game changer for staying on top of crypto news is having a network of people or at least knowing people that are engaged in the space that you trust their intelligence if you can't trust somebody's you can't if you can't trust your friends for that information then I you know you need to have people in the space that you can trust with that finding newsletters that you think are reliable and believable Thomas and I were talking about this yesterday like when I read New York Times op-eds I I know that they're probably not going to be horrible I mean I might disagree with parts of them but

like there's no difference in this space you know you need to you need to be able to find websites like decrypt or some sort of newsletter that you're into or a Discord where they organize information don't don't just be like hunting on websites for what to look for because then you're just wasting your time trust other smart people that spend their time organizing information get that information ideally it just depends on how like bleeding edge you want it to be because ultimately if it is super duper important you're going to find out about it from either one of your friends or one of the many newsletters that's going to cover it it's going to come up um will you miss things you absolutely will but you know I'm a firm believer in that in five years we'll probably we'll have forgotten a lot of a lot of the day-to-day stuff that had happened and things that'll be ultimately more important will be just the things that were obviously the top news of the time ideally or maybe even those things won't be important anymore so um yeah that I mean that's that's my takeaway for like how to discern things is just like find newsletters or find

people that you can trust to organize that information and don't be overwhelmed take one article one at a time slow down like my my suggestion is to slow down with information if you can if you can really get like one thing and one solid takeaway then a per day then you know that adds up over a period of time but sometimes people are so quick to read a million different things and just push content out to your point that uh you know there wasn't a lot of sometimes there's not a lot of original writing it's a lot of just read redigestion taking things that were said and then re-saying them into into organized newsletters and I knew with my writing I didn't want to do that I wanted to try to like sit with something so if it takes two weeks to sit with it then that's how long it took maybe eventually it'll be faster I'm not doing this full time so I don't have the luxury of an eight hour work day dedicated solely to writing and reading but um and then only that just like organizing your energy per day and Thomas will probably get into that how we we try to find the best time of the day that we think we're most creative and most productive and allocate that

towards writing because there is a serious and substantial drop off for wasting your time and attempting to write at 10 pm if that's not if you're if that's not your Zone that's not your Q Zone you're going to be just sitting there feeling like why am I so stupid it's like you're not you just should have written this eight hours ago so um those are my primary takeaways slow down drink some water uh get some rest and don't freak out if you miss some of the news because most of this won't matter in five years yeah I actually have a follow-on question we're not going to get into this now because we want to hear from from Thomas and what his workflow is but that's always a big question in my mind uh you know if you're on crypto Twitter everything seems so consequential it's so important it's so dramatic it's so like oh my God the world is coming to an end like our nft's over and it's it's one of those things where like how much does it really matter so we're gonna get into that in a second um but before we do that let's let's talk to Thomas a little bit about his workflow and how he chooses uh what to do because again your newsletter is

quite different to to Chris's Chris this is much more you know you alluded to this Chris like you'll sit on something for two weeks you'll go deep you'll write 5 000 words on it you know t-pan you're like daily it's a fire hose of news from you as well um you know it's a thousand words usually maybe sometimes a little bit more um and it's it's more like here's what's happening right now whereas Chris is much more hey I'm gonna go deep on a subject and again we've actually got some conversation that we're gonna have on that in a bit but see Ben what's your workflow how do you how do you make sense of what's going on uh with the fire hose that's that's coming at us every single day in web3 first of all how dare you guys say it doesn't matter all this matters royalties creators the culture decentralization everything's getting centralized meta is taking over totally kidding um Chris has amazing points uh and I think I I appreciate what he shared because I think I myself can at least take a couple of those nuggets and lean into that a little bit more and I wouldn't say my process or you know daily routine

is completely different but because I am able to spend a little bit more time from the absorption of content the absorption of the volume of content I do have a somewhat different approach um the way I break out my day um in the mornings I've always maintained my morning routine even during covid even after covid prior to covid where I work out I sort of just catch up on High level things with even just personal you know interests outside of web3 just catching up on the news Tech Etc and now I incorporate web3 and as I mentioned the primary platforms being Twitter and Discord um and for Twitter it's all about signal you know it's all about who you follow and the quality of the content that comes through from that and naturally Twitter being a social media platform having algorithms they also can pick up what you like what the people you follow are retweeting so it's really important to a degree and if you need to create a

separate Twitter account for it right because if you have personal interests and all those things if you want a more focused uh news feed so to say or feed of web3 related content do what you need to do to curate that and you could do lit you could create lists of individuals you follow and things like that so create a more curated feed is what I would recommend on the on the Discord side there are certain groups whether they're Alpha groups which is like specific closed gated groups where you might have to purchase and a t to be a part of and you get specific types of information or just groups of friends like what Chris said where there's higher signal and quality of that signal which is important I am fortunate to be a part of a alpha Group which is you know paid and things like that I was a very early member so I actually got the membership for free way back in you know last year but what they do is they actually have a couple of Discord bots on use bot that sort of pulls only from two accounts one

is called lucky Trader which is more nft specific and has like General headlines in the nft space and the other one is block Works where it's more web 3 crypto specific news headlines uh from those two Twitter accounts and then that's all that feed is so actually use that feed to really help me just understand what are the headlines in those two respective worlds and that helps me to just feel comfortable if I did nothing else that day from you know on Twitter or whatever generally they would cover 80 to 90 the news from a geopolitical standpoint from a general crypto standby from an nft standpoint Etc from an organization standpoint I uh I'm simple uh I just use Trello and I sort of have separate folders of just all the different newsletters including Chris's and other folks will I'm sure we'll we'll get later into the podcast about like recommendations of people who to follow and read but um I'll be honest that list is piling up the inbox is piling up in regards to all those unread things and I'm coming to terms with that the number of messages that and DMS I'm

getting from people some legitimate some I had to figure out if they're legitimate or not that's piling up as well and I'm you know traditionally I'm a yes person and I love being a yes person but it's time to start saying no and what's what's nice is people actually understand the situ generally understand like hey they're not responding they're busy but I do try to batch those things together whether it's consuming content or you know responding to people and the last thing I would say is you know in regards to the consumption of this information I I Bunch um the shorter bits or like the quick updates from Discord or the Twitter feed in the morning more so and during the day and at night I save more of that time because it's quieter there's less noise for the longer reads so I intentionally say that because there's no nothing really else bothering me and the craziness of the day awesome yeah I you know what's interesting to me is as I'm listening to both of you you know we all have similar approaches but we're all very different

in in how we consume our news um you know our listenership for this podcast you know our kind of leaders in web three people coming from web 2 into web three and this is why I thought this episode would be really important and interesting to that audience because in my opinion there is no other way to actually get this information other than to just Dive Right In you kind of have to get in there you have to have your wallet you've got to go on the different chains you've got to buy some nfts you've got to follow certain accounts on Twitter and see what's going on because you know for better or worse uh you know top of funnel is still crypto Twitter and then you know the action the the the kind of the insights the alpha happens in the discourse right and we're going to get into that in a second but but uh what to me is is interesting about trying to cover the space trying to build in this space trying to understand what's going on in this web 3 space is the only way to get there is to actually consume the culture you know become a part of that culture um in a way that you can maybe get away

with in other Industries you don't necessarily have to like Dive Right into Sneaker culture to you know maybe that's a bad example you probably do have time I can attest I can attest to that Yeah you sort of need to dive in right but um uh more so in web 3 than almost any other uh space that I've been a part of in my professional career uh it is one where you kind of have to go in there and you got to drink the Kool-Aid and you got to be in there to to actually understand what's going on um to that end my next question uh I'm gonna we're gonna get into the Creator royalties piece because that's incredibly topical uh it's in the news right now um you know magic Eden which is the biggest uh nft Marketplace on Solana made the decision last Friday I think so just a few days ago um to make paying Creator royalties optional I think a lot of people actually thought that creator royalties were baked into the smart contract well actually you can get around it and some other smaller marketplaces had been

taking market share from Magic Eden by doing just that by saying hey you know don't need to pay the crater royalties um when magic Eden made the call on Friday to say hey creative royalties and are optional um you don't have to pay them um change the UI change the experience for buyers and for sellers uh Firestorm again super consequential at least according to Twitter and it's kind of split the the world of nfts and web 3 into two Fields one is well it's about time that we change the The Meta here you know like why are creative royalties the thing the only way that you know revenue is generated by these projects come up with different models um to The Other Extreme which is how dare you like this is literally breach of contract it should be baked into the smart contract at the protocol level uh creators are the lifeblood of the space of web3 uh how can we not be paying them the royalties that they've asked for um and I I'm very curious to hear your

guys's thoughts uh I actually haven't seen either of you cover this yet probably because it's so hot off the press um but I want to hear some some thoughts on on how consequential is this really how are you guys planning on covering it and and where does it go from here uh Magic even just said this is temporary this is just for the next month they've also cut their own platform royalties to to zero percent from the usual two percent um how do you put the genie back in the box or do you where does this go from here yeah um I I can open up with this uh you know Nico you said you know neither of you have covered it I mean this if anything probably if if I wanted to cover it I should have covered it yesterday being the following Monday and I write five days a week that said I wrote about azuki and they're doing some very interesting stuff but um yeah it's it's very complex because I personally am someone that tries to

see the multiple angles of any situation I've you know in previous jobs and people have given me you know made comments like Thomas you're very diplomatic or you're like very level-headed when you sort of look at you know potentially a controversial topic and I don't know exactly why I'm this type of person but um I do see all the sides this is a multi-dimensional monster I think it's you know pretty short-sighted and I I do get why people see it as like black or white but the reality is a lot of this stuff is gray area right when you think about regulation when you think about you know 10K pfp projects when you think about royalties when you think about any sort of Topic in the space the playbooks are being written yes nfts have you know technically been around for you know five seven years but you know they've only really hit some level like very very early versions of mainstream only in the past 18 to 24 months so a lot of things are still being figured it out and I think you know to your point a lot

of people assume that from a protocol or like some fundamental level um royalties were like baked into contracts I didn't know that either until like a few months ago when I learned actually I learned from zenica who's a pretty well respected individual big name in the space particularly on the ethereum side and and with nfts but you know he shared his story that he only relatively recently learned that you know this is not on that level this is something that's optional the marketplaces help facilitate that so I think there's a lot to be unfolded here and as crappy as it might be for the creators and as interesting and beneficial it might be for someone that focuses on flipping for a living or whatever I think my take is there is a lot that will there's a lot of known unknowns right in this regard and unknowns unknowns in the next days weeks and months from a magic agent standpoint this is is what three four days old from

an industry standpoint this is like in terms of a larger understanding that this is a new way of thinking about royalties Revenue ways of operating um this is probably you know a couple months old and the first time I heard about it and the first time I heard Rumblings here was actually from a different Marketplace called pseudo swap focused more on the ethereum side that was when I learned like holy crap like this is not a contract level you know attribute so to say so I think what's happening what I see is definitely understandably log creators are upset at this because they had that same sort of understanding that this is a new way for revenue for them to be rewarded and compensated from traditional models where they weren't but now that's being taken away from them so I understand the anger the frustration on the other hand I think it's important to understand that you know to a degree we're all about decentralization or that's one of the the big tenets of the space and this is to a degree a reality of

decentralization right so I think thematically I think about like you can't always have your cake and eat it too right there's a lot of cognitive dissonance if you really take a step back and think about the space like people want like everything should be decentralized everything should be like self-custody it's like well if you want the next billion people to onboard and we know that the average person is probably you know not the smartest people in the world like we actually should have you know custodial wallets and we should have centralized ecosystem to to support those you know 900 million out of the billion that they forget their passwords all the time like you expect them to remember their seed phrase and to write it down even though we that's like one of the most important things in the space so when it comes to royalties you know education and understanding the space is important um and the reality that there are there's always going to be people or actors maybe not even Bad actors they're just going to find different ways around certain Corners right and it it's relatively recent that this you know

corner has been cut and well I'm excited to see is how do creators respond to this you know have creators in the past who actually knew about this the whole time how have they approached this right some some artists what they say is um they actually hold back a portion of the mint um I I can't forget who I I can't remember who off the top of my head but there are creators who have done larger editions and they hold 10 or 20 of the mint so the the incentives are mutually mutually aligned so when it comes to that point it's important to think about mutually aligned incentives right it's important to think about your holder base the quality of your holder base the Persona of your holder base right because the reality is someone's always going to try to cut Corners so how can you actually get them on your side and to say oh my gosh like this person's awesome like I actually want to pay them in return right and the other thing to take note of is on a macro level we're in a bear market so when it comes to Bear Market everyone's looking out for themselves no matter what people say like people have to put food on the

table and it's harder to do that in a bull market you know chances are a lot of those people who were flipping and were like doing it on you know marketplaces where there were zero percent royalty now they're like yeah I could get five percent you know to the Creator because I'm up 3x right like what's five percent when I'm up for 300 or 400 percent so that's just something to take note of um and the other thing is whether it's create Creator royalties or something else it's always going to be whackable right again we let's say that creative royalties get solved so to say from uh you know industry or sort of from like a revenue solution standpoint there's gonna be a next thing I don't know what it's going to be but it's going to be like well these hacks are going crazy and you know they found a loophole so you know there's going to be maybe ethical or sort of moral things to consider um the last thing I would say is I think we're already seeing Creative Solutions um there is a developer his name is saigar

c-y-g-a-a-r I believe underscore Dev on Twitter he is actually one of the lead devs or one of the main engineering Folks at azuki he's always been a fan of creating public sort of tools um for other developers and creators in the space and he's been creating contracts you know just more for fun and also testing because it's sort of the Zeitgeist and like the Hot Topic here point but he's like hey I created a contract where you could customize which um um which marketplaces are sort of blacklisted from Trading uh other potential Solutions are you know because this is on the blockchain because there's a level of transparency here creators can sort of think through okay how do I reward individuals or holders or Traders or Flippers that have done so in a way on marketplaces where I get a percentage of the royalty so it's all about adjusting the incentives adjusting sort of the way things work and there's a beauty and creativity that's going to happen from that yes a lot of good stuff there I I made some notes Here I think

one of the things that um to me is the most interesting and what you just said there again Innovation is going to happen right it's just kind of the space is moving fast it has to move fast there's going to be changes that's the one thing that's for certain it's going to change right um but one of the things that you said which which resonates strongly with me is this notion of aligning the revenue model um with the projects kind of business model so to speak or service model um and that's something that I've been noodling on over the last certainly over the last weekend but really in general which is like hey we've had this this Creator royalty has been so there's mint and then there's Creator royalty and that's really been it so far there haven't really been any other Innovation around the revenue models um in my opinion yes yes it's painful for the creators in the short term the ones that we're counting on the royalties um they're gonna feel the pinch at the same time we're we're I feel like we've been overdue some level of innovation around matching the revenue model to the

service model or the business model of the particular projects and for for gaming it's pretty obvious there's you know there's a lot of analogies from web2 and kind of traditional air codes gaming whether it be free to play or console based or what have you um I think for a lot of nft projects that are uh have a less obvious analogy to to something from web 2 or from from in real life IRL uh it's going to take more effort to figure out what those Revenue models are to match the the product model uh Chris definitely interested in hearing your take on this as well um in particular because you know you do this incredible job of covering web 2 Brands you know diving into web 3 I have to believe you have some thoughts on the analogy of exactly this which is like matching the revenue model from web 2 to something new and interesting and Innovative in in web3 how are you seeing this kind of Creator royalty kerfuffle that's blowing up right now evolving

going forward yeah I mean I think long term it's going to be okay if this is an experiment that explodes in our in our Collective faces then that's exactly what it'll be and maybe this is the you know the beginning of the end for magic Eden and people will move to Haiti swap or some other places to buy nfts I mean the the platforms aren't that different and most of the sites just look like copy paste versions of openc so uh not worried about it at all because if if there's enough of a backlash in the community will change we can't expect for things to be static with crypto and with web3 and that's part of the reasons why it's so enjoyable and we know that like total secondary sales for nfts over the last five months have been falling or in a crypto winter like we need to find new ways to reevaluate how to survive so you know removing the fees from the platform has already led to a significant increase in like wash trading on the platform so like that's the practice of like trading assets between wallet addresses owned by the same person or

party that's bad you know and some people think that this change was made on Magic Eden to artificially increase nft trading volume to give the impression that it's more highly sought after that it actually is um which is deceptive it'll receive unwitting buyers to to pay inflated prices for nfts that's bad um you know so not to mention that you know there are other marketplaces that have been eating into the total market share for magic Eden on the whole so maybe they offer more competitive fee structures so maybe this is the reason for the change it was not you know the people that are running these uh platforms are not didn't take this lightly and so it was a decision that like it's kind of like once you remove tipping do we want tipping to come back you know I mean I think we go out to eat it's like oh just 15 20 every time you go out to eat it's 18 more is the same kind of mentality going to happen where it tipping becomes optional and Creator fees become this optional thing we're like oh I can't believe you bought that and didn't give 10 to the Creator you know I it and and

maybe the culture around that will change in some way um I think we're just gonna have to see how people respond but I mean it the issues become so prevalent that openc even announced that they're gonna you know temporarily block some Solana collections from top and trending to avoid gamifying or gaming the numbers artificially so like it kind of goes back to the whole question of like how long is the bear Market going to last like is this sustainable long term once you remove something like this will people be stoked that it's gone and start trading on places that are that have less cost because if I can buy an nft for the same nft for 200 who cares what Marketplace I purchase it on you know and as far as like Brands go so many Brands entered from web 2 to web3 um you just refer to web 2 as a traditional company that has a social media strategy it just as absurd as it would have been to have attempted a few years ago to have had advertisements on Tick Tock now it's like having stuff on web3 is just like well duh but like one of the biggest reasons brands are

entering was like oh we get ten percent we get we get 15 people are going to buy and trade these things and we're gonna make all this money doing that so find new ways to offer utility incentives for people to purchase the collections like um I think it's a good thing you know let it explode again every time bad things happen better stuff happens later so you know like hacks and things like yeah they suck but then it means the platform will eventually be more secure you know um it's it's a sad nature of in this code world where you know things things are protein they will change so you have to be like expecting that brands have to adapt if they're not going to be willing to adapt then they you know are just gonna be busy on Snapchat and Instagram and having failing social media accounts and stuff like it people have to change so I'm excited to see what will happen you know I mean maybe a new platform will pop up with different types of ways to offer utility um you know I think people become way more creative when they have more constrictions so the more constrict the

more restrictions the better um let's see where this goes yeah I think the big question in my mind is always so I tend to agree with both of your takes on this um adversity breeds Innovation um especially in the bear Market the big question in my mind is always is it uh two steps forward one step back or is it one step forward two steps back uh these hacks these setbacks these uh uh adversities they can have the chilling effect of either slowing or downright uh stopping the flow of the mass Market to to web3 my last episode uh that I recorded with uh John Oswald from Gala games uh was all about how how did how do we onboard the mass Market to web3 uh given all the friction which we already know about but also all the negativity in the news and

all the drama and it's almost like a self-inflicted wound um when we see some of these things happening it just feels like well why would somebody who is not already red pilled into web3 actually go to the effort of getting these wallets when they know like well I know there's these hacks and I know that my things aren't safe and there's no take backs you know I can't get it's not like I can go to my bank and I have a you know transaction that I can reverse if there's fraud or if I make a mistake or whatever so I think that to me is the big always the big question is is it two steps forward one step back which is fine we're moving the space forward you know and we're learning from from the mistakes that we make collectively as an industry or is it actually just one step forward two steps back um and we're harming the cause of of you know building web 3 which I think the three that I think I speak for the three of us were we believe that there are incredibly valuable and interesting things that web3 can bring um in a variety of ways to different Industries so

um great thoughts we're going to move on from from that because uh and by the way there's actually a great episode I just listened to last night uh Unchained the Unchained podcast um really really good episode last night if anybody hasn't listened to it uh it's all about uh the Creator royalties situation they actually have uh one of the founders of magic Eden uh on on the show um to to talk about that issue uh so you get it straight from the horse's mouth so to speak in terms of why they did what they did and um so I won't steal their thunder you can go and download that uh episode of Unchained um let's move topics uh it's aligned with what we just talked about but it's it's more at the higher level again uh this is specifically for for Thomas here so I think one of the things that I see in your writing uh that I find particularly interesting is that you almost obsess over the little details um you go into like the weeds and I love that because I think sometimes those little details are what makes all the difference um but other times I'm not sure they do

so I'm super curious to hear uh let me give you an example so I think in a recent newsletter uh you paid attention to a project where the founder of the project or founders of the project were retweeting announcements and you commented on this as a strategy and I find it really interesting because who knows how the Twitter algorithm Works um uh and obviously a lot of the action for nfts and web 3 happens on crypto Twitter and so I I find it really interesting that you commented on it and you do this all the time with different projects whether it's the onboarding flow or how people get you know engaging Discord Discord channel strategy like you will literally comment on all of the little things and I love personally reading about those because um even if I don't actually adopt uh some of those or all of those tactics uh I find it interesting intellectually and stimulating to to think about them and say okay well I wonder how much to drive so why and how do you pick up on these

little things and how often do you actually find that they are driving meaningful change or meaningful metrics for these particular projects how do you actually validate where your what I presume are initially thought exercises how do you actually validate whether they're right or wrong or whether there's a positive or negative impact uh to these little observations that you make um your newsletter in particular is absolutely of all the stuff I read definitely goes the deepest into the Weeds on some of these things which I really do appreciate I honestly do appreciate um so that's definitely something that that tpan's newsletter uh calls out anyway yeah talk to me talk to me about this yeah it's fascinating to me yeah and and yeah Nico I appreciate it I think that's a great observation of my observations right thinking thematically about the the things I read about like how I Write About It generally I sort of have three types of writing which is like shorts thoughts and uh Dives that said shorts and

thoughts sort of overlap in the sense that ideally my shorts are truly short like under five minute read which most of the time they aren't thoughts are usually there's multiple topics I talk about they're not necessarily related it's just like hey a lot happens in 24 hours obviously in this space so you know here's some top of Mind things and the Dives are more more focused on like one product one company one theme or framework I've thought about or sort of written about so um typically this is more leans on the thoughts or short side of things like hey found this really interesting thing like here's to a degree why and I'm making certain assumptions like why this is interesting from my point of view why this is something you should just think about or consider so to answer the question um my background's in growth my backgrounds in marketing uh so it sort of is the name of the game I think a lot of people in growth they share a lot of sort of nuggets from like talks to like what they're seeing um you know there's so many different tools and websites for example I come

from the mobile space like the mobile app space specifically and there's so many websites actually even from like a UI ux standpoint where they break down step by step every single screen you know for the onboarding of every single major app in the space whether it's Noom calm you know mobile the top mobile games to you know Facebook's onboarding process and things like that so I think to a degree that was just through repetition I went to the growth gym every day for 10 years and I was like whoa I really enjoy reverse engineering I really enjoy like if I were in their shoes like what am I trying to test why are they asking these questions in a user research survey and like just really making certain sort of you know assumptions to a degree but inferences about like what they're trying to do so with magic Eden so I I'm doing this on the Fly I haven't done this thought exercise but like what are they trying to do right magic Eden is a three-sided Marketplace whoa they are well they have creators they have consumers or buyers of the created nfts and they also have

the developer ecosystem believe it or not right so this is actually a three-sided Marketplace and what they're actually straining right now is the relationship with the creators so going back to you know how I think about this um I think additionally I just always love like diving into details catching things that people don't catch and like sharing that with a broader audience and to your point Nico I think it's important for my audience and I think they uh indirectly already do this like they they find it very interesting but they also have a level-headedness of like oh if t-pen talks about it it's interesting let me poke in maybe click on the link and try it myself or observe what he's observing but like that doesn't apply to me uh what I'm trying to say with all the things things I point out is not that you should try it but this is interesting that might apply to you in a year from now that might never reply to you but like just take note of this because maybe this becomes something where there's pattern recognition and I will call that out in my writing and maybe you should take a closer look at it at a certain point the

other sort of you know comp for this is like feedback right we're all Builders we're all professionals and we get feedback all the time whether Nico you're talking to investors about like hey you know what do you think about what we're doing right now what are you seeing the space and investors are going to be investors they always have an opinion and like it's very valuable opinions for me I have a lot of people you know who say like hey I like this I like that or whatever um and some of it's very valuable and you truly take it to heart and some of the feedback a lot of the feedback you sort of take note of but to a degree you you appreciate it and you acknowledge it but then you ignore it right because like you have a vision you have something that you're focused on that maybe sometimes people just don't have the full context on so I'll also finish the the question with my answer with is um one thing that sort of popped up in my head when I was like thinking about the questions um was this project called moon salt moon salt is basically a version of NBA Top Shot by WWE and when I came across

that because I probably saw a headline somewhere or followed a Twitter account which actually mentioned it it was actually yeah it was a Twitter account called the first mint they're pretty OG they came from the Top Shot days and built a sort of media brand since then to cover more sports related and Dapper related products among other things I was like whoa WWE is coming in the moon salt let me check it out and I was like oh interesting this is basically a version of Topshop um who's running this because I clearly the IP licensing is WWE I doubt WWE has like a web 3 arm so I was like hmm typically you know copyrights trademarks like you know all those you know things on the fine print at the bottom so I scroll down to the bottom I'm like okay there's no real mention you know outside of the standard stuff this is WWE by no it's not really WWE to a degree so let me look at the tnc's on the privacy policy right because that's sometimes where you get to see the dbas like who's the real business beside it but like behind the thing behind the product who's building it and I found a

company called blockchain creative Labs so I Googled blockchain creative Labs let's see what that is bcl.xyz I believe um and lo and behold that is Fox entertainment's Tech and web3 arm so I was like what's this and then it went on their website they have a lot more that they're doing besides WWE which is apparently and I might be wrong so don't quote me but like a Fox Entertainment property of sorts so they have the licensing rights of some degree they're doing U.S Football League they're doing the math singer which I used to watch feverishly with my fiance they're doing crapopolis which is by one of the co-founders of Rick and Morty so they're testing a lot of them interesting things so that's just the way I operate I'm not encouraging everyone to be like oh let me look at the tnc's of every single like product web3 product but that's sort of the way I operate and that's how I'm able to find interesting details that your average person sort of just glosses over which is totally understandable yeah I mean you know as at Zynga where I

got my start uh in in game development and one of the things that we would do I think perhaps to a fault um ultimately was we would absolutely go on analyze and reverse engineer you know top games or interesting products or you know uh for two e flows you know first time user experience flows or payer conversion flows or things like that and and that's why I appreciate appreciate your takes here because uh sometimes it's those little details that actually have a really big impact um on how a product uh functions and it's only through looking at the little details and actually analyzing the data and then following through on okay I have a thesis this is interesting I'm gonna look at this and then I'm going to measure what it actually does can you actually you know truly observe uh what what these things are doing so um so to anybody I would encourage anybody building in in web 3 um you know in my opinion no detail is too small and there is no vertical that

you shouldn't look at when you're you know whether you're building games or defy or whatever uh we're all figuring the space out and there's a lot of learning that can happen from looking at some of the smaller details um and the bigger picture we're going to get to that in a second Chris because that's why we have you on the show as well because you're a great Counterpoint to to t-pan like he goes into the weeds uh looks at like the individual uh feature level stuff you do much more of a high level hey here's a historical take and anyway we're going to get to that in a second but um uh yeah to me the value of analyzing any web3 project whether it be gaming or otherwise is trying to figure out what's working and what's not and and what's resonating with consumers um and what's not whether it be toward a strategy Discord strategy or product strategy you know Revenue models whatever there's there's no detail too small that isn't Up For Debate and isn't up for hey let's rethink this let's do this better than the other guy uh you

must do this better than we're doing it in web 2 or you know traditional uh industries that have analogies and book three okay um with that that's a perfect segue into to Chris so you're you're writing I've alluded to this already your writing is much much deeper um which is not to say that t-pan doesn't again incredibly valuable but your your writing is deliberately I think quite different um you know Thomas is writing maybe a thousand words each again five days a week uh yours is less frequent but you do five thousand plus words uh you do historical deep Dives um you did a piece on uh Disney's web 3 strategy which I found absolutely fascinating I highly recommend it to anybody really interesting but you had literally a Page's worth of footnotes and links out uh you went all the way back to the 1960s and Walt Disney's original vision for the Epcot Center and what that was going to be um but then you tie it all back together at the end to hey here's what Disney's doing in web 3 here's their strategy I'm not gonna you know know give away your

content here but how do how how do you decide what topics to cover again a lot of your writing goes into Brands you know existing Brands kind of touching on web3 and it's not just like oh I observed that Disney's doing a web 3 thing it's more like no like here's how it ties deeply to their actual brand strategy um and certainly convincing to me I'm compelled by your arguments what makes you be interested in what web 2 brands are doing in uh in web 3 why does it even matter what web2 brands are doing in web 3 you know doesn't the Innovation all happen at the startup level isn't it all about you know web first crypto native Founders right um so yeah throw it throw it to you Chris like what what's going on with web 2 Brands and web3 uh why does it even matter yeah why does it matter when they're gonna end up emulating the web 3 startups that are making original cool content

I think at first I was writing it to get a better understanding of like where where were things where are they heading and where do I think they're going to be like soon you know I did a deep dive on Adidas where I talked about like well how is Adidas used the internet and the web in general over the last 20 years and and are they typically Brands can you can you can kind of see it from far away they're going to be more Pioneers in the case of Disney they were pioneering there was the definition of the pioneer like they literally invented theme parks you know before it was just an amusement park where you just go and there's rides like no we're gonna make it this immersive thing and how does that tie into mixed reality where you know you can see the the clear parallels where we're going to take that idea and move it and then for me the big thing and the reason why my sub stack is called spatial awareness is because for me I just I couldn't help but keep zooming out and being like I mean web3 is important but web3 will come to be a part of a larger whole um that involves the internet in a multitude of different ways with iot devices extended reality and how just

how's the world going to look in 30 years like are we going to be referring to web 3 the way we are I mean it was largely a marketing term to begin with so I mean so why do I pick why do I pick the brands that I pick I think usually I pick them because they're doing something right in the case of like Coca-Cola there were things that I felt like they weren't doing well or at least I didn't realize I didn't like it until I had already written like 80 of the article so I was like okay I have to finish it even if I don't like how this is working but that's good I mean you know as Frank Zappa might say my music taste is is based on what I hate and then I just kind of go from there so like you get you learn a lot about Brands by being like I hate that like I I really don't like what you did but why do I hate it so much um but most but to be fair most of my articles are based around like what are Brands doing really well and how do things tie into each other I usually pick topics that I find interesting and then I'll kind of throw the idea around

to a few people that I know sometimes I'll pick web through oh I'll talk to a number of people before releasing an article um in the case of my recent article involving Byzantine fault tolerances I couldn't find anyone that was interested in reading that article because it was like well why is our distributed tokenized future why does web3 rely on fault tolerance I feel like I don't even know what you're talking about so that's an example of a of a bad of a bad article because I mean not that I like it please read it it's enjoyable and I think it's interesting for understanding why Firefall tolerance is important but it needs to be applicable to people's lives it needs to be applicable to like work and more importantly if you're working somewhere how can we like take these ideas and actually make them actionable so for some of my articles like for token gating signing with ethereum loyalty in 2022 like like that's that's the article name like how can brands use nfts to unlock new experiences and create brand brand loyalty like I a problem that I've seen with a lot of articles online was just like you'd get

those nuggets if you read like 30 articles and be like oh now I'm seeing a clear picture of how brands are doing this I was like I need a place to organize this information for myself for my own benefit so somebody asked me where's where's brand loyalty in 2022 I can be like here's where it is and here's a few examples of why I like it you know so picking picking subjects that are interesting and fun and that I use my girlfriend as a good example I'm like is that does that sound like an article you would read because the bar is extremely high for being like okay in the case of Disney it was like okay you know you can meet people that don't like Disney but I I don't think I've met too many people who like absolutely hate Disney World like I don't think I've ever met anyone who was like I hate Disney World that's not possible so good example of picking something you know I try to pick stuff that like you might not love Adidas but you probably don't like actively hate Adidas um the same thing with Nike like unless you have some weird Vendetta against shoe brands I don't know so yeah I mean that's pretty much it I did another report on the state of nfg ticketing because I kept being asked at work and

you know just by people like well how are people ticketing things like what are the best things for this I'm like I should just write an article that like sums all this up because it's driving me crazy so now when people ask well where where's nfg ticketing in 2022 I'm like Oh I thought the same thing that's why I made an article about it um so that we'll dive into there's a lot of different ways to cut the Cut the Cake um there are a lot of different right answers to things a lot of things are better than other things so comparing and contrasting things for Thomas's work it's great to see daily content where I can learn about something like yesterday you covered pbt's physical back tokens and understanding the future of of figgitals and like what a figable Marketplace might look like in the future and how that first from a purely digital Marketplace there's a lot of parallels to that but um daily stuff like that will lead into like well how can I have an article that dives into what are the future of like ethereum-based tokens are we going to have like svts pbts PB JS no it's just like continuing on and on and on uh but I mean like pvts is a great example of like after you know a

few weeks of Thomas's writing that's an example of an article where I would want to dig into that a lot and like learn like where is this going to go how does how does it really work how are you going to like keep it so a physical item actually has a code and then you get into like just like warehouse management and like actually storing an item and like how are you gonna like make sure it's actually the item that you're saying that it is and that's interesting so I can go find interesting things first I think we we both Thomas and I both write things that we think are fascinating so um yeah and we do write differently but it was not intentional it was not a digital at all so I wanted both of you on the show because you are you could not be more different in your Styles and in your approach and yet I find both of your writing to be incredibly valuable in just very different ways um and highlighting all of the Innovation that's happening whether it be in mostly Thomas's case you know crypto native startups you know who are like thinking things from first principles to you know in your writing

Chris web 2 brands that are entering web 3 with huge budgets you know and massive resources at their disposal in a way that you know crypto native startups don't and I think that's where I find it as a as a Game Dev as a game developer you know operator uh in the space I found it really valuable to see the different approaches and and the different types of thinking that's happening um around what is possible in web 3. what does web3 even mean um in web 3 certainly I as a Game Dev I find it quite painful to put it mildly uh right now because none of these problems is really solved um a lot of these pixel shovels have yet to be built and these Solutions have yet to be offered by different service providers and companies so my final step to the question to you guys is what are you seeing in this space um who is doing the best work covering and understanding these things why don't we start with YouTube bank because I

just called you out on the Safari uh referral um how are you finding these companies how are you covering them um and who's doing interesting work in this space you know there's no great answer to be first and foremost um I will give a shout out to Safari and jump so Safari spelled with a Y instead of an I um led by Justin Vogel and he has a couple of co-founders um they're a great sort of of community they are a apply First Community of growth leaders in the space an example a comp from my mobile days it reminds me of to a degree is like mobile Dev Memo by Eric suford you had to apply for that you know you really have some of the smarter folks or the more leaned in folks in the mobile space sort of actively chatting and you see those names continue to pop up a version of that's happening in Safari and one thing that happened um in the past few weeks where uh Justin and his team at Safari were actively sharing and then they just put out the sort of initial inaugural version of

this was they created a web 3 growth ecosystem map so we've seen this in a lot of other web 2 spaces or like companies like G2 create certain you know charts or you know versions of this too but he created a version specifically for web3 and web3 growth so you know SAS tools different platforms for X Y or Z and I think the initial version and probably it's growing own sense has like 75 to 100 plus companies that are web 3 specific Solutions the second one I mentioned is jump in capital letters j-u-m-p it's more for marketers um I think they're at about two thousand two thousand ish members so like anyone that sort of touches marketing so like Chris and myself we actually met through jump um that's how we got connected in the first place um definitely check them out they're also apply to join um great members the founder Jeff is uh is an awesome guy we both spoke at a conference last week in San Diego so it's great catching up with him in

person too and meeting other Jumpers in person and some I've met in the past so those are a couple of the places where I I learn more about what's the latest and greatest and just people connect with me and people are like oh this guy writes about these companies he writes about different Trends and things going on he does Dives like you should chat with him or you should subscribe to him awesome uh Chris chance for you to answer that question as well picks and troubles um who's solving the problems where are they bubbling up how are you finding them and then we'll move on to recommendations from both of you for other sources that we should we should all be reading to stay on top of these trends sure yeah I mean to Thomas's Point um you know it's always good to reach out to people in person I was I for one was surprised that Thomas was not actually a small blue cat that was writing anonymously on crypto Twitter threads so that was that was a shock to meet Thomas it was a completely different in person um species I know completely he's not a feline uh

you know sometimes similar mannerisms on Discord but it you know that's that's way off topic uh people definitely reach out a lot on I mean shout out to jump again Thomas and I met there but um some of the best contacts that I've made are people that actually will even reach out to me on Discord or telegram or signal or whatever um for different updates for companies they're working at building out different tools um I really think 2023 for big companies uh uh using like owner relationship management platforms that are oriented towards web 3 is going to be major because they you know this year and last year you know maybe you have a large following or a large collection of people that are now using uh nfts that your company had created like how are you supposed to engage with them so a company like sale.finance is really cool it's kind of pivoting and tatting itself as the first owner relationship management platform for web3 so finding ways to you know and this kind of ties into gaming like having play to earn

mechanics engaged to earn mechanics earning you know custom sort of tokens or brand tokens for engagement um being able to have exclusives and a different advantages from nfts that are purchased and then you know like you know a good example would be um there's another company called flaunt.xyz that is really getting into Customer Loyalty um and uh that kind of ties in a little bit to I know the cost has recently been experimenting with how can we do like more Pioneer more loyalty involving web 3 and I think that just looking up Lacoste and what the cost is doing with web uh with nfts is definitely worth checking out as far as like other companies like I mean it just depends on what your slant is if you're looking for like development stuff uh things are changing quickly I think you know having no code platforms and having things that are a lot easier to use is like the name of the game for sure um Dows that are looking for different programs and different Tech have a different just a different set of requirements for things that they're looking for you know if you want to have

more of a jira experience like using clarity.so is a good example for Dows you know um if you if you're purely concerned about loyalty maybe hang hang dot XYZ is good for you if you just want to Mint certain you just want to have token getting for certain content maybe mint gate is the way to go um and but I really think 2023 is going to be the year or I mean because it has to happen at some point that more brands are going to be using web3 based crms to connect with users so there's a lot of protocols that are being developed right now um and especially you can definitely get a Vibe for how things are for how many people are messaging you on LinkedIn being like I've got this new product it's like yeah and you and like 20 other people other people so like time will tell what what tool Reigns Supreme yeah you know one of the things this reminds me of is um you know we signed up for a whole bunch of you know web Street tools and some of them work out some of them don't some of them we keep using some of them we don't um and one thing that just came to my mind is um every single one of them we don't get we don't get an invoice for

um we get a Discord message uh from a cat or a monkey or a lion or uh some animal and it's like hey your monthly subscription is due or like hey you got to pay for this quarter's uh service and it's this much in you know Saul or eth or usdc or whatever and there's a you know a wallet address and it just reminded me like to me that's normal um to the average person to to certainly to web 2 Brands who are used to do things a certain way where you have to have everybody on board into your invoicing system and your CRM solution whatever um that's Madness that's Madness um we're living not just wild wild west but we're like you know we're on another planet here in the world wide west um okay so on that note uh very quickly for both of you uh two or three resources that are absolutely like your must reads um you know what I think of service providers we're talking you know newsletters sub Stacks whatever medium blogs

um where are you getting the top two or three sources of information for what's going on in web3 doesn't have to be gaming related but just what is going on in web 3 what is going on with nfts what is going on with this you know world of crazy decentralization that we're we're living in uh where are you getting those uh those nuggets of information from that's most valuable to you let's start with You Chris sure great question um I mean sometimes I'll go Rogue and just start looking at random articles online I think decrypt is great for curating stuff that's immediately important um I also am subscribed to this thing called signal which is top three uh top web3 social headlines which is powered by Forefront so that every day they curate 10 to 12 different ideas sometimes those are sub Stacks like for today's headlines number two is gassing the miracle machine with McCormick who is I was going to mention as being a massive influence for me on uh substack um but likewise yeah

yeah it's usually a mixture of things but typically typically those um jump jump has a great newsletter as well that I would definitely recommend um and uh I'm trying to think what else and without really overeximing myself I think those are those are the top ones for now dig into signal and you'll you'll be in a good place because that's that's everything that you'd want to look at on a daily basis thank you Chris t-pan for you two or three yeah I would first give a shout out to Chris's newsletter spatial awareness because it's not often but when it comes out you know it's going to be good and that's just different for me so I always appreciate the ones that are less frequent and you just know you should and will read every single piece um proof is interesting I just discovered this last week because Sam who is at Punk 9059 was on rug radio and I'll give them a shout out really quickly in a bit but um they have like research reports that are free so proof is this like very

exclusive 1000 member Club I think the floor is like 40 East to even get in so not cheap obviously the who's whose um and then 6529 uh punk6529 just like a philosopher but also just like still Anonymous today 400 000 followers and he just has great big threads about like almost philosophical topical items and the lastly rug radio they have something called the GM show it's a Twitter spaces so it's really nice because they talk about macro markets they talk about um sort of the nft markets and then they always have like a guest um whether it's art whether it's gaming whether it's like some other thing in the space so it's really nice diverse sort of 60 to 90 minute Twitter spaces just to really like if there's one tutor spaces every morning that's sort of my daily routine awesome well thank you very much for those um this has been uh an incredible uh set of insights we're going to try and Link as many of the the name drops uh the resources that you guys have talked about obviously definitely we'll link to yours your newsletters

um in the show notes but uh that's it for today a huge thank you to Chris huge thank you to Thomas incredible insights I definitely recommend uh subscribing to both again very different styles but but both very valuable resources about the world of web3 so thank you Chris thank you Thomas yeah thanks so much thank you for having us um and of course a big thank you to all of our listeners uh we'll be back next week with more interviews more insights more analysis from the weird and wonderful world of web3 so until next time friends uh stay cryptic curious feel free to send questions uh guest recommendations and comments to me uh Nico my email is Nico navic dot Co and you can also find me on Twitter at nicothefin uh DM's always open thank you guys [Music]

thank you [Music]