Inside Nostra's Game-Changing Lock Screen Experiences

[Music] hello world welcome to the Pocket Gamer podcast I'm your host Brian belago and joining me as always is our fortune teller and futurist Peggy anals hello Peggy it's great to see you again how are you I am good Brian I love how you come up with something every single episode but this fits futurist I like that uh because we're going to look at the future of App Store Alternatives because everyone's talking about right these are real business opportunities more places more players it just makes sense so we're going to zoom in on Nostra which is a platform revolutionizing game publishing and development primarily in Southeast Asia and in India but it's coming soon here so we want to talk about that and we want to talk about both sides because it's not just the platform it's also

about the player experience it's always great to be on The Cutting Edge no one has done a show like this we're the first excited I am always excited but it's when we when we discussed this show and and started looking at what's happening outside the sort of the western markets um which most people see as being The Cutting Edge I was thrilled and delighted when uh when you told me the guest that we have today because the one thing we know about the mobile market is it's always changing always evolving and looking at some of the the markets out there where they're really experimenting and going in places that that we are going to have to follow so H yeah I'm I'm really looking forward to this I think we've got a fantastic Sho ahead of us so maybe we just sort of raise hands when I call you out so we know who you are there we have deac wenka chamani he is Vice President of business operations at Nostra Nostra under his leadership has grown to become the top largest Mobile gaming platform in India and southeast Asia with over 90

million monthly active users a catalog of over 500 games and as I said like all Innovations from the East we will soon see them in the west before diving into the world of gaming deac also founded a skill gaming platform so he has seen it from both sides in Deek we're happy to see you here on the show today welcome thank you for the kind words of introduction Peggy and Brian and uh I look forward to having a wonderful chat with you guys maybe maybe your first podcast could it be deac oh yeah it is it is my first ever podcast a first topic and a first a First Time guest oh yeah don't worry you're in the hands of professionals and uh we we'll try and make it as as fun as we possibly can but um absolutely delighted to have you here so welcome on board thank you and we have the founder and CEO of Felicity we have anog choward he's based out of India and really interesting Brian he has steered Felicity to become a true

Beacon for indie game developers in the region looking to design and publish captivating casual games the company three people right that is the success story company counts over a million monthly users and develop more than 10 super fun games that resonate globally not just in India he's a long track record across a number of verticals because he's been in Commerce he understands user engagement he understands product Market Market fit and of course anog fantastic to have you as well to share your journey and tell us about the ever evolving gaming landscape so I can't resist it Brian you know me uh pun intended it's G to be a truly gamechanging episode Brian I love the fact that you can never resist a pun it's it's one of the reasons that we get on so very very well so let's get to it because I think there's there's going to be an awful lot in here for our listeners and for um our audience that they haven't yet come across and as we said Nostra is currently the the largest

gaming platform in the whole region with ambitious Global aspirations so could you start by telling us about how Nostra because it's the gaming platform on glance surfaces I think I'm right so how how does it work you guys uh put in a couple of puns so let me start off with one um this will change the game all right and perfect I guess with who opens with a pun Peggy I like him he can definitely come back GL to start with is revolutionizing mobile surfaces uh by that what I mean is glance as a company takes control on the lock screen and it tries to bring out appless content experiences uh which is to say that there might be an app out there or there might be a website out there which is which has content on it but glance takes elements of that content and makes it available in a in a very smart way uh powered by AI to a large extent on the

lock screen makes it available for consumption on the lock screen and uh we do this for different content verticals we do this um we do this for entertainment we do this for movies we do this for news um and we also do this for gaming and that is when noar comes in so nostra's mandate in this in glances journey is to go deep into the gaming landscape and U the way we started our journey back in 2019 was to start with snackable gaming experiences which at that time meant largely instant games our scope our philosophy is to again take content snackable forms of content from within games that people like and um make it available on the lock screen on a mobile device on which glance is integrated and Nostra is integrated when a user powers on his or her lock screen they'll be able to see they'll be able to consume a piece of content from within a game so that in a sense is is what we um what we what we

do on mobile devices um and hopefully you'll see in the future on on on a variety of other devices as well but um that's that's where we began our journey amazing dpack and and it seems to make so much sense given the the number of devices the number of times that you look at your device through the day without necessarily opening it up um so a couple of quick follow-ups first of all is this a piece of third party software do you have to install it how does how does the user get a hold of it um and then select the verticals that they're interested in and second all what what's the revenue stream are the the content creators the developers and Publishers paying to be there or is this something that that you're offering as a service to the to the network just give us a little bit of context if you would so the way the access gets created in the first place is that the software comes bundled with the device um it's not a separate app that can that can be installed by the user once the software is first accessed once the experience is first accessed on the lock screen

there's a very intuitive Flow by which the user is able to select the categories of content that he or she is interested in the second part is in in given that we've been in India and Southeast Asia the revenue monetization mechanism is through primarily ads uh which is inside the content that that can be consumed from the lock screen in very intuitive ways without it seeming disruptive to the core experience and we also believe that for example that the the the lock screen itself is a very personal space for the user they usually love to have elements of personalization on the lock screen we try to have the experience as intuitive and personalized to the user as possible um and uh therefore the ads also will not appear on the face but um very much deep into the content when the consumption happens that makes an awful lot of sense so you're keeping the barriers to entry as low as possible and encouraging that that initial engagement with the user Yep looks also like it's working really well look at the numbers because you

have 82 million monthly active users an average daily engagement of 20 minutes per user so there's a difference here between the engagement rates with traditional app store downloads of games and and what you're able to do with you know lock screens on millions of devices driving this engagement maybe you want to give us a perspective on that or compare that to understand just how it does the ability to feature a game directly on the lock screen impact engagement what happens when a game is featured on the lock screen is that an entertainment Avenue for the user is created um an entertainment Avenue that's always on we look at gaming um I believe quite uniquely in the sense for the vast for the vast majority of the world uh it's not about playing a game for 2 hours at a stretch it's not about playing a game for 10 hours at a stretch uh it's about playing a game for 10 minute when I have the time in between

doing something else in between two other activities I might be at work and um if I'm having a coffee break I might play a game for 5 minutes 10 minutes right so when you when you quote the 20 minute number uh Peggy it's not 20 minutes at a stretch but it's 20 minutes which is actually spread over four or five sessions in a day uh to be honest the numbers are just a way of keeping count it gives us a lot of happiness but it's nowhere close to the uh end result um and fun fact we did recently cross 100 million in terms of monthly actives so 82 is a little outdated oh yeah and congratulations are in order I mean it proves here that uh there's also that element of discoverability there so I think that also probably plays with this because 100 million active monthly users is uh yeah it's uh it's significant and probably also AI playing in there as well that we'll hear about in a little bit but I didn't want to only speak

about that because we have you anog as well and you are already on Nostra and you've been there you know we've talked about it three people in your company since 2023 so relatively young first thing you do you grow to Captivate over 1 million monthly users how has Nostra played in this journey how pivotal a role has it been because again that is that's a that's a sizable uh number and you certainly did speed it up right absolutely so firstly U I just want to set some context about how I got into gaming spent a decade working across food delivery e-commerce uh in leadership roles even spend some time building a startup in content and failed casual gaming was one space which I felt very very uh you know was very apt to build in uh why because couple of things one is the space at large uh you know doesn't have any vanity metric at the

end of the day uh you have to make money it's you know it's a real business that one has to build from the outside the second thing that I really love about casual gaming as a space is the acceptance to just failing fast and super self found you know Clash of Clans like after a year and a half into their Journey so Felicity embodied that from the GetGo that you know what we will not be married to a game we will be married to building a business in gaming and th when we started off there were two things that were really important uh apart from building games one was where do we find our first set of users where do we not just monetize but also find validation in terms of how good are we at the craft and that is where I believe Nostra really really really helped us Kickstart our journey our first game was launched on Nostra last year sometime and from there on we have gone on to publish more than 10 games uh with Nostra on their platform from getting our games to thousand of users across

multiple geographies uh you know we we do get a sense on which are the games which we want to double down on and further invest into you know like spinning off as titles which we want to scale on uh Mobile and other platforms I love that story Brian yeah it it's incredibly exciting so as deac was saying it's a Push Service it's taking games and putting them in front of players at the point where they're likely to want to to to have something was was this your plan from the outset um to build a a business in gaming or is this something that you kind of um emerged as you started I mean you know we are all trying to orchestrate success uh so yeah I mean that was the plan from the GetGo in fact uh I didn't commission one game uh we commissioned three games from the get-go uh just that we sequentially I mean we happened to meet uh uh Deepak Nostra got a chance to release one and they liked our game I mean they are very very adamant about

quality uh I remember how they play tested our games and they like okay you know this one seems to make the cut uh but uh from there on I think we got the opportunity to launch a few more and uh that alternate validation Channel also kind of you know opened up just to just to add on to this right code is content and the developer is the creator right now that's that's that's something that's very AP for gaming in the sense that we forget how much creativity is involved in making a game and uh we we tend to think as an industry that it's about optimizing the funnels um have the users learn the game but it's not it's it's it's a lot about creativity and uh the way the the way everything is set up the the way the entire gaming industry is set up it just seems to to us and I think anur conquers that the cost of creativity is extremely high building a game from scratch applying creativity um and having it see the light of day and some amount of success even a reasonable mod of success is really tough so so I

think that's that's one philosophy that um that both of us believe in and and I think in my opinion all Gamers believe in the cost of creativity should not be so high and um this is one possible way in which that can be overcome there's the opportunity to have very rapid feedback you know testing really moving that development process forward maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that rapid feedback you know how that has impacted the development process and maybe also deac chiming a little bit from your perspective because you were also yeah cultivating that process supporting that process clearly as you start putting them out on Nostra and the other Alternatives you'll see that some games have a spiky behavior in terms of their first user session uh you know the first time the user experiences them uh the users also tend to come back to that game perhaps the next day which is a gives you a good a direction of retention right and uh those are the games those are titles which perhaps are

like in the top 20% of you know whatever we have built out there are the ones that we like to double down on uh so so far we have churned out 14 titles of which three titles kind of make the cut the other great thing about Nostra is that you know at least you don't lose any money on those titles while uh while they're out there right in fact it helps you increase the span of monetization as well for each and every game that you put out there as I said our approach was to ensure that any game out there um is presented in a snackable format it sees reach at least once everybody gets to experience it once and then they can make a choice on whether they want to play it again and again uh or not depending on how the core engagement of the game is so so the way we approached it was to say that you have a game code so what are the tools that we need to provide as Nostra platform to ensure that first it gets onboarded onto the lock screen then it's about saying what

other tools do we need to build to ensure that reach happens to ensure that rediscovery of a game happens um for example even even Elementary stuff that we think of in terms of Android which is what are the re-engagement loops are hard to build on a on a web platform so so that's that's a that's a tool that we created to enable any game to use um we then created tools which ensured that monetization happens on the day the game goes live so that's that's the way we look at it so honestly the difficulty of doing all of that is very understated in the gaming industry um but all that stuff is is is things that we try to take on board on our side and try to make available as tools to game developers who will essentially just have a code you know um their baby will be that code and we are able to introduce all these features with rap as a rapper to the game so that it it goes on it goes live on on nostr and glance and uh gets out there for users to discover

there are more tools also that that'll come along in the future for example um um Japan for example are Japanese users have even though a game might be really simple uh they are very adamant and very insistent that the game needs to be in their in their dialect of Japanese so difficult for for a game developer in in Turkey to be able to do that um for for an outsider it's it's hard to understand those dialects but we live in the we live in the world of AI in the era of AI so we are now able to create this tool which enables which takes the text from any game and translates it to multiple languages uh ready to launch in any any geography so our entire approach is to say that game comes in and integrates with one rapper which enables multiple options that a game developer can then use so so I mean that's how that's how we try to reduce the barriers of Entry to as small as possible and can we ask deac what's the impact been on the

developer ecosystem out there um with companies you're working with because this this is solving problems not just for the players for the developers are are you seeing kind of a community growing around you in terms of the gamees creators numbers aside I me you aside the the simple way I would look at it is does a game developer of their own volition and choice choose to work with us repeatedly because nobody very few people release only one title into the into the wild right it's multiple titles and if there's if there's genuine value in what we providing to game developers then they'll partner with us over multiple titles we have developers in um in Turkey in France in India as well uh some in Japan who who look at us to release multiple multiple titles without me having to um go and ask them for more so that's that's honestly the biggest validation that any platform could get I mean the other way to look at it is um is also longevity of the titles are be able to provide uh additional value over

any other platform to a game developer right so so so far I think the signs on both have been good well I think given given how you know early in the process you are and that those multiple engagements from the players from the developers and to have such an extensive network um you know as Peggy said at the top of the show you know this this could be the start of big big things there's one thing I'm hearing over and over again across all of our shows it's diversification right and Alternatives you know looking for more ways to get more mileage out of existing games that means bringing them to different platforms to bring them into different context as well and and that's what you also have in mind anog because of course small Studios they always have big Ambitions one is always to scale how are you leveraging Nostra and also whatever else you're doing at Felicity so the

overall strategy is to ultimately be crossplatform as you said Drive the maximum mileage from each title uh in terms of users uh and then of course if your game's great enough monetization right thanks to Nostra you know we've also gotten introduced to a bunch of other you know instant gaming networks uh where we also publish our games and what I'm noticing this what I'm noticing is that this this this ecosystem is so nent and fragmented I mean I think Nostra is this one platform which is recognizable in India uh that many developers don't even know about it as yet in the long run I feel that if it's a casual game uh one will build them not just for mobile but for platforms uh which are instant uh like Nostra Facebook gaming uh there are by the way uh instant gaming networks which are PC first instead of uh you know mobile first like crazy games uh so uh

that's another place and lately I'm also noticing a third interesting uh diversification that uh you know some studios are taking upon which is web three I'm going to I'm going to dig into that if I if I can and so I mean this you've you've changed your development approach this is clearly helping with your user acquisition your engagement um are there any sort of numbers that you can share with us in terms of your growth in user numbers or or anything that you can you can share with the listeners just to show how well this this approach is doing for you we are less than a year old but uh you know we have managed to uh like you know get to a point where our games are experienced by more than 300,000 users daily across all the different platforms that we published on uh right and across 14 different geographies just by having a diversified approach we have managed to kind of you know uh uh make entries into geographies which would otherwise be very very difficult to if we were to spend our own UA money that is also us

build our discipline around you know how do you like adapt a game for different different countries localization uh you know build inhouse uh capabilities uh for some sort of content live Ops for games which are like worth doubling down on so it's interesting that developers such as onok but others you know they're looking for ways to diversify they're looking for Alternatives help me understand help our audience understand how does Nostra stand out in this we are trying to build to a system where um anybody could publish a game from anywhere for any audience right and the way to do that the the as long as the game is there the the tools that enable one to do that all that's our responsibility a game developer does not need to think about what's the UA or the UA budget or the ROI going to be uh they do not need to think about whether I need to create a

legal entity in Japan to launch a game in Japan they do not need to think about what should be my SEO ASO or marketing strategy to ensure that to ensure that audiences find this game um given that we are present on these surfaces and given that the tools are enabled to to take a game live in any part of the world wherever we are present the the task of bringing users to that game at least once it's our it's ours so so that's that's the first differentiator the second differentiator um we don't do this for money so we do we do not say that you can reach these users and for that you have to pay us a fee um We believe We this comes from the believe and this also comes from my my my past experience as a as a game developer in skill gaming uh finding the Right audience was literally the toughest part that's that's one headache that we are very proud to take away uh we are able to say that um um this this entire business of reaching users in any part

of the world um and um and getting an early sense of um how is that audience engaging with the game and how do I re-engage the audience all of that happens completely free of cost other big differentiators will come further down the line where um I go back right to the start of what we were saying which is we are focused on bringing out snackable experiences the ability to play a game without requiring a download on the lock screen but but um over time I think we'll also be able to release new experiences which are adjacent to the core gameplay but which will enrich and deepen the game play in in multiple ways um which I think is very intuitive and very necessary for gaming in the long term what those experiences are is is something that I'll not I'll probably not speak speak about right now but Brian and Peggy you guys did say that I'm welcome welcome again further down the line with a with a new pun so maybe that' be a good subject to talk about then yeah well you know what it's I think we're we're all intrigued it sounds like this service is is going to

go um very well in a lot of new regions that you're not necessarily active in yet so we would be delighted to have you back deac and if we're going to get the exclusive on all of the new features then yes we will roll out the red carpet my friend thank you as soon as as soon as I have the lineup I'll be ready we said we want to have you back and uh and and for good reason because you're going global as I mentioned the way we integrate on a mobile device the way we are available on a mobile device is is um if it is bundled through an oem or a Telco so the Nostra presence is not dependent on um a country bycount roll out it's but it's more a function of what kind of experiences are um really key and really beautiful to launch in a western market and that's that's something that we actively work on um so that's the way glance and Nostra both term any new market the beauty about that is that

therefore the scale up is not gradual um Brian I don't know where you at you sound like a Scotsman so I'll assume that you are in yes correct I am right outside Edinburgh Ed oh very close outside Edinburgh it's only 40 mil away so right literally nothing is the pro so so it actually might happen that um one night you don't have glance on the next morning you do right so it gets when it gets bundled with a with a Telco and an oem then it gets rolled out super fast right uh it's not a gradual scale up so so that way we'll enter that way markets will get lit up um but really the key to the key to understanding you know how we make a difference in any particular Market is to acknowledge that the games we have in India the games the games that are that are available to consumers in India are not going to be the ones that will work in Scotland right um simple example um Scotland is a huge fan

of football most Indians are not aware of football right so so the huge difference so Cricket but Cricket might work in both places to an extent not not so much in Scotland but but a lot more in India so I mean that's this is a very surface level analogy but um as you go into um as you go into so many genres that exist in games we have to acknowledge that that content that works in in a given place will not work in another place so all of these complications come in and um one game developer one game will not be able to solve all of that for all the countries in the world but our our philosophy our ambition our vision is to ensure that the option of um that option should exist any game should be able to go to any place in the world we do live in the era of AI um but what that means for us is that is that a lot of things that were not possible earlier uh for example simple language language translations with high accuracy um are now are now suddenly possible AI

personalization and the and the localization that that drives is a huge part of it uh again our approach is not to acquire games country by country but to create a system by which anybody in the game development ecosystem in the world can can create games and once you have that catalog then the option is option is for the game developer to to take the game to whichever country that he or she wants and then our then let our personalization algorithms take over our personalization models take over to figure out if if that game will work in that country or not so sourcing from sourcing globally and then making it available locally um in AI powered ways which handles the presentation part that's the way we approach it do you have future plans of expansion um but you also want to further support game developers people like anog and his Studios you know you're in the middle of an ecosystem there are a lot of there's a lot of I wouldn't say mouths to feed but there's a lot to balance there how

are you doing that and how do you see Nostra evolving going forward I don't see it as as a balance to be honest okay if you are true to our philosophy and if we if you stick to these basic principles that I outlined then this is something that can expand the mobile gaming Market it's not a it's not a fixed spy anymore um I think that are there are some common statistics which which which we keep hearing about retention is tough right um we know that if if 1 million users are acquired for a game maybe some percentage depending on the games even start playing the game and um a single digit percentage out of that is retained after 30 days this can be one of those things which solves that problem so that's the way we look at it it creates additional gaming occasions from consumers uh which which goes back to the the first point I said I'm not looking to take away 22 hours which is spent on some of game to be be spent on Nostra but I'm looking for that 10

minutes when you're having your tea right that time you're not playing any other game and therefore you know it's not really a question of balance it's it's a question of expanding the pie in a way that everybody benefits um and all our successes therefore are linked by by how effectively we are able to expand the P great model great model Brian just having having it there you know so whenever you look at your phone you glance at the screen and it's like oh a new game something something interesting it's it it's that dopamine hit that we know Gamers love andr I'm going to I'm going to come to you and ask the same question that that Peggy just asked deac in terms of the uh the trends the changes that you see coming up where is it that you guys are are looking ahead to you know what is it that you think is is going to come where developers like yourself are going to have to change using platforms like Nostra so having that uh Diversified mindset from the first get-go is I think one thing that a lot of developers will start thinking

through that you know what will I be able to Port this game across multiple platforms seamlessly uh it would be in the choice of the game engine that they make the choice of um you know assets that they create the grade of assets that they create everything else right that is one uh the second thing interesting thing that I'm noticing is that you know given where the industry is going U you know there's a lot of diversification that's happening to games which are what what we Now understand as hybrid casual right so where there's an opportunity uh to also monetize the user through an app purchases and what we're seeing is that even the alternative platforms uh uh you know some of them have started encouraging that the third is the shelf life of the game itself previously you could build titles which would perhaps last you U you know if not a decade at least 5 years you could continue earning from it but the pace the rate at which things are changing if I have a winning game how do I leverage that to build

many more games uh right like uh rather than just obsessing about that one because you know even for us I mean while we have a final which is narrowing down to successful titles the uh there are two things that we can do from here on either we can add more titles to the frey or think of taking this game mechanic which works and making multiple Renditions of it for example if one of the games that working well for us is a hidden objects game game uh where in you know you look it's a finding Walo or a where is W kind of a game right so uh now that lends very well to even an IP collab tomorrow if if you're you know if you're finding objects in Hogwarts Harry Potter uh so one also needs to think about the reusability of the game mechanic to kind of you know spawn more monetization and you know different experiences uh so these are the three broad things that I think a game developer needs to kind of think of to uh you know CH to kind of Thrive and

survive in this everchanging market that's some that's great advice it's and I think all too often it's there are developers out there who every single title is kind of starting from scratch and they're they're not kind of building on their their previous success or learning from from previous mistakes even so uh that that's fantastic what advice would you give to a small Studio considering Nostra as a distribution and feedback platform I would just say be game another pun another pun we can't beat that one we love you I think we stay with that one I'm good I'm good big game for anything is what we're saying here Brian and uh and and see the opportunities that's what this is about and it will be you know you have Ambitions to go Global but right now it exists and it's had such impressive Traction in southeast asiia and India it's also telling our audience that if you want to launch in those countries well they can do that through

Nostra yeah absolutely um um it doesn't require Hoops to jump through it doesn't require multiple methods of or mechanisms of investment before you get your first user I think I think it's a great way to um get your get your game into any Market not just India but wherever we are present even if you've developed a game in any other Market given some of the conversations we've had with guests over the last couple of years Peggy where everyone's has been decrying the the the competition on the marketplace the saturation it's the fact that so many storefronts are so hard to get in front of um you know players and that UA is by far one of the biggest challenges that so many developers are facing having the opportunity having the invitation to go and and reach markets that you may not have considered before um sounds like something that that every sensible um studio and every should be doing gentlemen can't thank

you enough for your time it's been completely fascinating it's been eye openening and I'm sure we're going to be hearing an awful lot more from both of your companies now before we let you go we have two questions that every guest of the show gets asked the first is what is it that you're playing right now and those little 10 minutes where you're having your tea or you know and then the the tough one at the end is favorite game of all time so um anag can we can we perhaps hear from you first yeah so I'll start with my favorite game of all time it's Subway Surfer and I have a I have a high score of 5 million uh so you have play I think I was on the India leaderboard uh like third uh something for a week uh you have to play that for I think at least three and a half to four hours continuous to get there uh so yeah yeah and and I love the way they like make the game fresh with a new map every few weeks uh the game that I'm playing right now actually

U yeah I mean you may say that it's a cheap uh you know plugin but I mean I'm playing our game seek and find uh it's a hidden objects game uh you can kind of you know come and find objects from like the Pyramids of Giza to U you know a beach Sunny Beach so we have multiple Maps a lot of art what I like about the game is there is no you don't have to premeditate anything just sit and relax and you can go about finding objects in whichever way you want right hidden object games I think are much underrated here in the west you know it's they're they're somehow seen as as um being simplistic or not real games but they have been huge across the world when you look beyond the Xbox and Playstation um crew so I'm I'm with you uh it's a nice relaxing hide-and seek you know nothing wrong with that at all so thank you Andra um deac you've had a

few few minutes to think so what are we what are we going to hear what I'm playing right now is uh Dr Wolf chess um absolutely mad about that game for the last uh last couple of weeks now um I mean whatever whichever 10minute window I get I'm I'm usually on that and it drives my wife mad as well um so that's the that's the game I'm playing now um the favorite game would be a mind game that's another pun [Laughter] and okay you're not you're not supposed to take over the hosts you know love of puns but no I'm I'm teasing please continue um I think the all-time favorite game would be Football manager so I'm I'm a data junkie at heart and I um I love football following in playing for the longest time in my life so

Football manager I think I would have bought every purchase off of steam for the last um 10 years or so listen it's we hear we hear that from so many people that that we speak to um and yeah you know for for a country that isn't necessarily big on football you know it's it is a solid choice so thank you very much gentlemen it has been uh an absolute joy and an honor to uh to find out more about what you're both doing I will second that it has been a great Glimpse also into some other models Alternatives and I love to end on a very positive which says that you know there's a lot out there to discover and to do and that's what you're saying you're doing literally you know game on May I say it gentlemen game on nice one good one this show is all about how to do your job better how to make an amazing game how to Market it and you have a say so if you have a story or know someone

we need to shine a light on then we would love to hear from you we want to hear from you we want to reflect the reality of the mobile games market and all its wonderful complexity and strangeness so if you have any suggestions for us if you have any feedback for us you can always get in touch you can email us at podcast pocketgamer.biz you can find us on Twitter @ PG Biz and you can reach out to us through the pocketgamer.biz website if you're interested in listening to all of our podcasts you can find them at pocketgamer.biz SLP podcast and we would love to hear your thoughts on future shows and we've got you covered on all the major platforms so subscribe to the audio podcast as Brian said look for us on YouTube if you want to read it hey you can do that too because we have a companion post for you as well on the pocketgamer.biz website tune in again for the next edition of the pocketgamer.biz podcast and we look forward to speaking to you in the near future until then I'm Brian Bago I'm

Peggy an saltz and that's a wrap till next week