Gamestop Bids on Ebay, Battlefield’s Preorder Battlepass, & The PS5 DRM Scare | Games For Breakfast

[music] Good morning, Matt and Zia.
Ah, good morning. Well,
good morning to all of you.
Welcome to Games for Breakfast, the only internet talk show we talk about this week's gaming and tech news, but we're also Zoe had a part in the intro and I think the translation of what she said was, "The sun is forever."
The sun is forever. The sun is forever. Happy sorrows first week to all who celebrate. Zoe, are you excited?
Yeah.
She says the sun is definitely forever and that. Yeah.
Uh, you know, this is a great question that we get all the time. Let's answer this. Was that meow a sound effect or her actual meow?
That is an actual meow. Every s every time you hear Zoe on any extra credits thing ever, bar one. During my first year, there is one false Zoey in the first year I was doing extra credits videos. The rest are all records on this

mic from her. Um, yeah,
she's quite vocal. Um, just normally we don't give her a chance because we we could wait forever, but Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
You're being talk this morning.
Yeah. Hi everybody. Welcome to a wonderful show where we have a lot of silly things to discuss with you today in the world of video game and zen and buzzness.
Besess.
Have you heard of the of our lord and saviorness?
Okay, chat, wrong answers only. Please spell.
Yeah. So, if you could just spell it for me, that'd be really good. I I've told this story once before, so I'll tell it very quickly. I uh when I was working at MTV as an editor, my first big mess up was on a VJ hit. We had to spell like business owner for something and it instead I I sp I spelled it buzzness. Like I spelled it I spelled business entirely wrong and it went to air and I got in trouble.
Cool.
It was fun.
I like
Yeah, I spelled it every one of those

ways that you're typing in chat right now.
Yeah, these are all great. These are
I like I like coppers. I like Hold on. See if I can get it before it goes away. [laughter] Andy's is good. Biz
is very good. Yeah.
The P the P is silent.
Uh yeah.
Oh, dramatic. Dramatic. We're getting to it. We're getting to it. We have a couple we have two tiny things to say and then we're getting to that story.
Yeah. Uh first off, and most importantly, may the fourth be with you.
May the fourth also be with you. Hey, Will, what's your favorite Star Wars? Uh, I like the one with the lightsabers.
I like the one with the pod racer, but the one in the video game that you could play on your PC and
spinning. That's a good trick.
I Yeah, I like Sand because it's coarse and rough and gets everywhere. Um, but regardless, we we don't have any Star Wars stories because we would be remiss if we did not say that.

Yeah.
If we weren't contractually obligated by every marketing department on the planet.
Listen, listen. They're going to take our nerd cards and they're going to light them on fire in front of us or they're going to cut them in half because we forgot that someone else had the high ground.
I don't even have any Star Wars stuff like in my general vicinity.
I don't either. I actually
can't be over banan. When when I went to um I have people who witnessed this who will attest when we went to uh FanFest out at Anaheim, we went to Main Street Disneyland to hang out for a little bit because it's free and you can go there and there's like stuff to do and there's a Star Wars shop and I held a lightsaber, like an official Disney prop lightsaber and I didn't buy it. I'm so good. I demand your accolades, chat.
Is that because when you were there no one told you to
do it?
That's No. Plenty of people were telling me to do it, but I I resisted. Um I didn't give in to temptation or the dark side.
Um
I forgot I had all these Star Wars

sounds loaded.
Hello there.
Because [laughter] because we did it for when we made a Jedi or we made Darth Jar and Elden Ring for a charity stream.
Yeah. Now now Matt's remembering that he has a a soundboard. Yeah.
These are called Jinks.
So then we got a lot. We'll we'll play with them as we go. So that was announcement one. And then I promise we're going to get to eBay. I promise we're going to bid on this story. Everyone, please put in your bids to start the eBay story in either chat if you're watching us on YouTube or Twitch. Hello Janet. Hello Brad. Put in what you want to bid for us to begin that story while we tell you the next piece of housekeeping information.
Yeah. Uh I like I I I'm seeing the correct answer already come in. Uh about tree fitty.
About tree fitty.
Yeah. Right. Uh so next up we want everyone to remain calm. This important it is imperative that you remain calm but change change is coming to this change. Yes
to this breakfast program. So Matt and I

have been looking at data and looking at uh how things are working and we have um we have come to the inevitable inexraable conclusion that we need to change days for breakfast.
That's right. Now to be clear, you can continue to eat breakfast on every day.
You should. It's important
unless you're fasting for any particular reason. the the the the the general breakfast, the breakfast that we all share is going to in months coming up in how many actually, let's see, it's probably going to be a month and a half.
Month and [snorts] a half.
Uh we are going to be moving instead of Mondays at 11 Eastern Standard, 11:15 on YouTube. You can join us for the pre-show on Twitch if you'd like. We are going to be moving to Fridays at the same time at 11 on June 19th. We'll be the first one of these. We're going to be doing them on Mondays. Until then, sorry, Zoe. Okay, she's done. She's exploded in a cloud of cat hair. Um,

yeah. Uh, in in fact, uh, I want to address this there. We are not unaliving the YouTube live version again. In fact,
I I I will not tell you the manner of its expansion, but we are working currently on the technology to expand the YouTube live version
to to bring it to you in new and exciting ways. Uh, and we're also working, and we've talked about this briefly before, we're working on some uh other change ups to the show itself. We're going to be um sort of compartmentalizing some stories. Like, uh, this week we've got a couple of gaming law stories. We're going to try and keep those together so that we have a gaming law section or a section uh where I can rant about magic or, you know, whatever. Um, we're going to try and keep those more condensed so that it's easier to find stuff in the chapters and so that, you know, we we have some uh semblance of order as weeks go on.
Enough of it. Here's the other thing,

too. Uh, the thing I'm really excited about, we're also going to be moving my streaming hours from Thursday when I play games to right after breakfast on Friday. So, you'll be able to come and hang out with us. If you're if you're still vibing while it's still going on, the stream will continue with a very similar form of chaos just with more gameplay and less screaming in an animated kitchenette.
Um, and I was going to say due to Hold on, something just went by. Uh, la someone had just mentioned like, "Oh, no, you're the only Oh, Annie. Uh, we're the only few bright spots on a Monday." We do understand that. Uh, that that can be the case sometimes. Uh but Will will still be streaming I believe on Twitch during that time. So there's still something to watch uh during that space.
And Design Club as a result of this will also be moving to Tuesdays. So we will have content earlier in the week, but we've found that um there's a couple of problems with Monday. Number one, um I don't know if we've ever mentioned this.

I don't mind it, but it is a little bit of a hassle. I prep this on Sunday, like throughout my Sunday. So, if I have other plans on the weekend, I kind of have to like juggle prepping the show. Um, which is fine, but also can be a problem. Um, and also it's kind of a two-fold solution, too, because what we do on this show a lot of the times is cover what happened in the previous week, right? or stuff that breaks so early like the main story, the eBay story was a rumor before at the end of the week and I believe this morning or maybe late last night there was an actual offer that we'll go into it and talk about. So, we feel like we're going to be able to act like the messaging on recapping the week's news stories is much much cleaner than recapping last week's news stories. I know it's the same thing, but it's an odd feeling difference.
Yep.
So, I don't know. I'm very excited about it and I hope that you'll be able to join us on on Fridays. But we will be going uh most every Monday. I'm trying

to think if there's any Mondays between then and now that won't have a breakfast.
Actually, you could tell that at the same time as me. We we good for next Monday or are we
uh We are good for next Monday.
Okay.
We are good for the next Monday and the next Monday and the next Monday. The only Monday that will not have one is June 8th because that is when we are taking our studio break.
Yeah. And then the following week,
we get late timed for no particular reason where most of the studio is not going to be here. Computer,
what are you talking about? It's gonna be fine.
That's fine. Uh, okay, cool. So, um,
I have to accept a bid to move the to move the show forward unless there's anything else before we before we continue.
No, I think All right. What's What's the winning bid on this year on this year eBay story? I I think because it's triply false, one gorillion Dogecoin is the bid I will be accepting slashnot accepting because it isn't real.
You know, I like one gorillion Dogecoin, which is probably more than the combined value of both of these companies.

I'm at the Pizza Hut. I'm at the Taco Bell. I'm at the combination pizza hut and Taco Bell. What um what's going on, Will? What is happening? So, okay, let's let's just address the the the short version is that the the the leadership at GameStop thinks that in order to maintain their stellar market position and their ongoing track record of just excellent business acumen that they need to buy eBay. Now, before we get much further into the story, we should address some facts, right? some facts that are not feelings based that are that are really just um you know like very important. Okay, so the offer that came in uh fiveish hours ago um was 55.5 billion.

We did not plan that ahead of time.
We didn't. Wow, that was nice. That's
what you have to do. Yeah. Right. Okay. Great. Excellent. Okay, MATT, WITHOUT looking actually [laughter] and chat
Easty, just wait. Just
Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Just wait one second. Just wait. We promise we'll get there.
Right. Okay. So, as of close of markets on Friday, without looking, and if you know, don't don't guess the right number. Don't spoil it.
Just guess the number. How much is GameStop worth?
How?
Everyone who doesn't know in chat, type a number you honestly think. Let's even not try to meme it. Don't look it up cuz you're not going to get a prize for getting it right or anything. I just want to know what people honestly think GameStop is worth. I'll pour my coffee while we wait.
Right. Okay. Cool, cool, cool, cool. Remember, this is in billions. Um, we're we're going with I I love this one even though it's not. It's $50 in store credit. I love it. Um,
but you had to trade in $200 and stuff.
Y uh So, everyone who's in the millions,

you're you're wrong. Um,
go billions. It's crazy, but it's true. Yeah, it's it's billions. What does it mean to be worth an amount? That's a great question, Feldar. We're talking about what the market cap valuation of GameStop was. Um, so, uh,
what the market says or what GameStop says the market will say is it value.
Yeah. 3.5 billion to fit the tree fitty.
Yeah.
2 billion, 12 billion, 3 billion of debt, 10 billion. We got We, you know, five billion. That's a good one.
TK. Yeah,
it's weird. [laughter]
It's crazy.
Yeah. Right. Uh Mary's guessing five billion, but I think Dramatic Gaming hits it on on the nose, not 55 billion. Correct. Because as of close of business on Friday, GameStop as a whole was worth

11.9 billion. So, let's just let's just put this in PERSPECTIVE HERE REAL QUICK.
YEAH. WILL PAINT A PICTURE.
OKAY. SO, you have $12 and you want to buy out a thing that costs [snorts] $55 and you're like, I'm more valuable than the 50. I have more money than the $55 thing. I should own that $55 thing even though my net valuation is $12.
How would one go about that?
One would get an inordinate amount of debt financing. Uh, one would find what we in the business colloquially call a sucker [laughter] to cover this transaction with like debt financing. And like I don't it's this is like the most egregious example of this

doesn't make any sense and then people make magic money numbers appear and then all of a sudden the shadow wizard money gang happens and now GameStop owns eBay and like it hurts. It hurts my soul.
Listen, we it this as people were saying this could this very well in very GameStop fashion could be a sort of like a grifty McGrifter. It's also sort of formulated to never like work, right? It's actually they're what they're winning at is shows like ours and a bunch of other news organizations. Like we're getting this from CNN Business. This is painting GameStop as a legitimate financial institution,
which it is not. Well, I mean it it is because to be a legitimate financial institution in 2026 means you you don't necessarily have to be a legitimate financial institution. Like it's just everything is vibes now and it feels real weird. Um so they've offered $125 per share for

eBay, half in cash and half in stock. stock of GameStop.
Yeah, because you know GameStop stock traditionally a high value investment according to Wait, let me look at this. Wall Street Bets the subreddit. If you need more information on that, uh, Folding Ideas has a truly excellent excellent documentary on the the psychology of Wall Street bets. However, you may need to pour yourself a stiff drink to get through it. Uh, it's it's a it's rough.
But don't worry. Don't worry, Will. GameStop won't be alone because they literally can't be. Um, I think I think they need a legal guardian. Uh, they plan to fund the buyout through cash and debt, which includes a commitment from TD Securities for up to $20 billion. So TD Securities in this case is a

sucker. Well, they like gambling. Um I I'm not familiar with what TD Securities is. Does anyone know off the top what TD Securities is? I'm just going to do a quick Google. It's not going to tell me much. They're an investment uh service and a wealth advisor, it seems like. Are they Are they TD Bank?
See, there's the thing. There's a TD securities that I think is tied to the bank and then there's a different one that doesn't seem to be tied to the bank.
Right. Also, I I do want I do like Red's correction. Yes. With finances, everything was always vi based. We pores are just seeing it now. That's true,
Red. That's an excellent excellent point.
Yeah. Like it just Yeah. Right. Okay.
It feels like it changed, but it didn't really.
It's just more transparent and more stupid.
Yeah.
Right. And you'd think transparency would get people to, I don't know, do something about it, but apparently not so much. So, let's talk. OKAY, SO OUTSIDE of the overt ridiculousness of

of the the the madeup money world problems of this, let's let's pontificate, Will and Brad and Janet. Let's let's play into a world where this comes to fruition. And what do we think this means in the gaming space? Now, I'll start us off with one of the main reasons I think that they want to buy eBay. eBay as a company itself is fine, but I believe it is due to the fact they own a a a infinite money glitch of a company. Will, isn't that correct?
Yeah. So, so eBay is an infinite like money glitch, right? I don't know when the last time anyone tried to sell anything on eBay was, but the slice of the of the profits of the proceeds from a sale that eBay gets is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So, they just host a site and act as sort of a middleman and then

they make infinite money.
Well, it's beyond that. What I was referencing was they own TCG Player.
Oh, yeah. and TCG player. From a cost perspective, buying and selling of objects, if you're just doing that with pieces of small cardboard, the overhead is some of the cheapest you possibly can get outside of digital asset trading.
Yeah, I I I wasn't going directly into TCG player, but yes, TCG,
but it's it's silly because that is that is a a an incredibly large pillar at this point of eBay's business model.
Yeah. So, I don't know if that's sort of like because that that's the from what I understand and correct me when I'm wrong, that's the most impressive piece of of business of weess um that that eBay has that GameStop might want or a company might want.
Well, especially because of GameStop and I don't know when the last time actually Chad sound off. When was the last time you were in a GameStop? Like legitimately, like not memeing, not like

I walked by and saw it and like got a cold chill down my spine cuz it looked haunted as hell. Like when was the last time um GameStop like you were in a GameStop? They've got a lot of collectibles. They've got a lot of collectibles. They've got a lot of cards. They've got a lot of um they've got a lot of physical merch because their game sales are not necessarily the best. And with the moves to digital, it's not been
Yeah, they if if GameStop was a legitimate company,
right?
I mean, it is, but again,
right, they are, but they aren't.
They are, but they aren't because they are because they aren't. The the their business model, their original business model doesn't work anymore.
Yep.
Uh I wish it did. And I hope that sort of like maybe more mom and pop stores can fill the gap and it won't be like as a you know I I really liked I loved I grew up in a time when there was um

electronics boutique Babages and then eventually games. There were multiple of these stores like you could go to just buy video games in the mall after you got your Orange Julius
and you caused trouble. Yeah.
Um but but so now um CEO since 2021. What the heck is this dude's name? I just had it. Cohen something. That's
uh basically um he's saying how
Thank you. He's saying how um basically he wants this to be he wants to if this goes through the idea is he wants to turn it into a legitimate competitor to Amazon. Now
you may all now point and laugh. Now, now, now, now, now now, now, if this was from a more serious organization with some financial backing and and a and a and a solid uh song in their heart to drive a stake into the uh curled up uh cavity that is Jeff Bezos's company, where they're where a blood

pumping vessel should be, I would be all for that. Um, this sounds like buzzword salad. Uh he was basically saying how he believes eBay should be doing more around live commerce where brands sell directly to shoppers via real-time video streams.
NOW LET'S LET'S BACK UP AGAIN. I KNOW WE'RE backing up and we're six feet from the edge and I'm thinking that's still a lot of space so we have some time to to kill. Um, but GameStop, wasn't it a while ago GameStop was going to get into the streaming video game sort of service? There was something that they were doing. I'm trying to remember the story.
They made like an offer on Gamefly
or something like that. And their whole thing was like trying to essentially trying to bring more live commerce to game playing. And now they're basically taking the the thing and trying to do it essentially. Essentially

tech bros are geniuses. We're going to invent a brand new thing. You ready, Will?
Yeah.
It's called QVC.
Right.
Young's in the chat. Do you know what QVC is?
Tell me right now.
There are people here who have never seen QVC. I'm sure. If you don't know and if you don't know what QVC is, you make it up and you tell me in the chat what you think QVC is,
right? Yeah. Right. Okay. No, this is this is the correct answer. This is this is the correct answer. You are correct, Dova. This is objectively correct.
So So uh Arfell kind of got it right off our shopping channel. Yes, they're turning it they they they're trying to uh turn it into uh essentially Can it run Flixel Sticks? Um no. Um it essentially is the Home Shopping Network. It's a channel that was a home shopping thing. So if you if you're if you're young enough to have never had

like true cable before streaming [laughter]
and and and you have to be living in a time share before I can do so, right? Um, essentially it would be hosts that were selling you things. It' be a show about jewelry, a show about knives, a show about cookware, a show about everything. So essentially they want to do live streams where brands sell directly to shoppers and they think, look, I don't like Amazon, but we all make various deals with the devil. Um, the reason why Amazon is ubiquitous and I would argue one of the reasons why the store itself is a festering pile of trash is it is so easy to never have to interact at all to get an item to your house. That's the sales pitch. And we've thrown away, myself included, a lot of our humanity to make that happen.
I wasn't using it anyway. But my but my

point is seems like you're trying to make an Amazon competitor with more steps,
right? Yeah. This this feels like Okay. Do you know what this feels exactly like? This feels exactly like when Amazon was like, "We're going to take on Steam for digital game sales." And we were like, "No, you're not." Cuz you don't understand why people use the thing that you're attempting to to emulate, right? and and the culture's moved on. I think Dorcat is saying it truly too. Tik Tok and so many other platforms, they're already kind of doing things like this, but they're doing it in a new media sort of format. I turning the try trying to eat Amazon's or Tik Tok's lunch via this is such a weird nonsense move that I can't follow it. Um,
so by the way, I also want to point out that there is a smaller company that

already does exactly what they're describing in the TCG space and in other nerd spaces. It's called WhatNot. There is like actually already a specific app for doing exactly this thing. Whatnot streams are just commercials. They partner up with all kinds of um uh content creators to like sell product on whatnot. It it already exactly exists. They could have just bought them instead of trying to buy a company that again, and I need to drill this in, is five times their size. They're trying to leverage debt buyout, A COMPANY FIVE TIMES their size. Did you ever watch the film uh and I know these were real uh the film The 40-year-old Virgin. Did you ever watch this movie, the Steve Carell movie back in the day?
So, uh the woman he is interested in, I can't remember the actress's name. Uh she in the in the film works at the eBay

store where you could go in to the eBay and I think this is real. this. They weren't even make they were they were poking fun at this concept, but it wasn't like it was a thing you could do. It was a store you could go into and look at objects, but then you still had to bid on eBay for them.
I thought it was going to be a place that like that that like packaged your stuff and helped you list it on eBay. Does GameStop think they're the underdog? I think GameStop
is high on their own supply.
This is the thing though, okay? And let's let's let's spin it around. GameStop truly as a corporation, not the people that work there, not the quality of service they used to deliver, not anyone at the lower levels, has not learned a single lesson because no one has made them.

They've just sort of kept bumbling into being an 11 billion company in a failing business market that this is is pumped up on memes.
Yeah.
Which is if you're okay being a grifter, rock and roll. Like good good on you. But like I don't know, man. This whole thing is so strange,
right? So like I don't think I don't think that it will. So, so let's say that this goes through, right? Let's say this goes through.
Yeah. What's the effect?
I don't think it affects people in our community terribly much because I think that most of the people in our community don't participate in any of these ecosystems, but I think for the general um for the general community, I think the eBay community probably stays the same. I think GameStop would be okay. Now, GameStop is already doing something ludicrously

stupid by trying to buy eBay, but like, let's leave that aside and let's assume that they do the smart thing and let eBay do whatever eBay is already doing and not mess with it. Just don't mess with it, right? It just makes money, right? like maybe we get a branding change and I think TCG Player um might do like ship to like your local GameStop for like a cheaper fee or something like TCG Player is probably the big one. I think that uh GameStops being physical outlets for TCG player shipments would be an interesting idea. That's kind of like Amazon's model where you can ship to an Amazon locker, right? Or how Whole Foods is an outlet for Amazon returns, right? if you could cuz GameStops are already set up to be pawn shops because legally in a lot of places the game tradein part is already a pawn shop trade. It's already a pawning trade, right? Um like that's already a financial transaction because you're selling them something and receiving

store credit and that's like actually a thing you need to like know about GameStop's model. So, and they they could do a thing where they're like doing TCG player first-party transactions directly to TCG player as opposed to any of the stores.
Yeah. Also, RIP ThinkGeek. Oh my gosh, I used to love ThinkGeek
so much.
Y
um
I have an old bag of holding from like you ThinkGeek days. Yeah, exactly. Um
um but my uh what I was going to say is so right now here's here's a here's a thing that GameStop does that is even though the stores aren't doing well an already established footprint with a workforce even if you're not treating them well and you don't staff them enough. Uh they have approximately as of January 2026 after a closing of 400 stores they have 286 stores roughly still there. That is a large footprint that you could do something with. You've already established it. You already have

relationships and shopping centers. You already have you already have you're already paying rent on this.
Yeah.
So, like for instance, if you made it a hub for TCG Trader or you made it uh a place that could work somehow in eBay's ecosystem, there's still value there. I just with the with the methodology from the CNN article of wanting to make it into basically QVC. I don't like you're listen these are snippets from a from a press briefing of a of a ludicrous offer that is meant to generate headlines so therefore it doesn't have to be serious but these things often are treat are that until all of a sudden they're real.
Yep. And I would hope that there's someone steering both companies that would kind of be like I don't know want to leverage the strength of both to make something better as opposed to essentially surf uh

the avalanche down until it's a smoldering crater. Like I just Yeah. Yeah. There you go, Feldar. Right. Just like that. It's a joke until it isn't.
Yeah.
So, we're gonna see. I don't know what this would do.
Um,
Grant Take did make a really good point in chat. Um, the uh the
uh this will impact physical game collectors and like retro game collectors pretty significantly. By the way, that's a really good point that I hadn't considered because I haven't bought a physical game in I don't know how long.
I wonder if hear me out. So, yes, a thousand%. I wonder if there's going to be a weird opposite knock-on effect as well if they stop doing like tradeins of stuff. Like, will people end up keeping their older games or systems longer? Like, will will individuals have more of the I don't know. I'm trying to think of a of a silver lining at all and it's

hard to sort of find one. Uh, so that's a halfbaked idea.
Y
um because like I don't I don't know about anybody else. I've never felt great about trading stuff in I always feel like the value prop specifically at a game store like if a GameStop if it's at a mom and pop like I feel like I'm kind of treating it there there's a there's a comic book uh store in Queens. just a local comic book store that when I was uh when Jamie moved in, I was selling a bunch of books that I just I I knew I never was going to read again and I I I don't collect enough anymore. And I I it felt really good to like go to this small store and have them be excited like I talked to the owner and like have them be excited about the it felt it felt even though I was not making obviously as much money as I had in the past on that thing. it felt like it was going to a good home to keep a shop open that I want to survive and therefore the value drop is fine. A GameStop is not that. Right. So like

I've always felt really really bad on the few times that I've traded things in. I I I I it don't know that I've always felt really like there was something in my in my heart that hurt every time I did a GameStop trade in. And I don't know if it's due to value. I don't know if it's due to the company. I don't know whatever. But um
it's the asbestous in the walls of GameStop.
It's true. Well, that makes you hallucinate.
This is a joke for legal purposes. I do not have evidence that there is asbestous in the walls of all GameStops. Just probably the souls of the damned. Probably. It's probably the souls.
And also, God, GameStop workers, y'all the real MVPs. How you've how you've sort of put up and through this. Yeah.
Uh, I I really hope that um this does something good for you as opposed to something ill, but I mean evidence or precedent, I should say, might point in another direction. Anything else, everybody in chat, YouTube, Twitch, is there anything else on this story before we move on that you feel like we have

not covered? I mean, we've gone all the way back to QVC, so
yeah, I uh I I think I think we've covered most of it. I I generally think the sentiment is negative. I don't think this will be good. I think GameStop should quietly continue going back to being one of the last remaining gaming specialty stores and then die a quiet death and get dissolved into a bunch of individual mom and pops. That would be
I do. Yeah. I just I really, you know, the death of any legacy third space, no matter how infested with corpo brain rot, is a is a sad thing. Yep.
More third spaces, please. And thank you.
Yeah. I know. This is what I'm hoping. This is what I'm hoping. Like I mean, who knows? But like I do feel like
it's I don't know. It's all location and it's all like how you can get that foot traffic and what community is around you. Um so we'll see. Yeah.
Yep. Okay. Let's speaking of third

spaces and their inevitable decline into corporate nonsense. Won't someone please think of looking at my notes? The children in Indonesia.
Yes.
So, you know, these stories are big when they start breaking containment. Our last one was from CNN. This one's from the Associated Press. So, um, the headline, I'll just read you the headline from the headline the Associated Press, which is Roblox to require facial scans for children under 16 in Indonesia due to new social media rules. I don't know we need to say anything more on the subject other than what yeah for the kids. Yeah. Right. Um also

uh I do need to give a shout out to uh Ricky Strong for hitting us up on Blue Sky with this story. Thank you so much for doing that and for alerting us. And a reminder, this is an excellent reminder uh while everyone is getting their existential screaming about this out. If you have a story that you think we should cover, hit us up on Blue Skype. That's a really great way to do it. You can find us there uh frequently. So,
that's where we live on the internet.
That's right. And
other than here on the We actually never leave this animated kitchen at, but we do have phones,
right? So,
actually, my hair is so long, so you can't see the bundle of Ethernet cables plugged directly into the back of my skull, Matrix style. So, um yeah,
Mr. Wizard, get me out of here. [laughter] Uh I Yeah, this sucks. Um it this is kind of how this stuff's going to move, right? It's going to move in smaller locations. They're going to like It's so funny because the picture on the

AP's uh article also has the Ministry of Communications uh in digital affairs uh Muda Hafid, which I I'm sorry if I butchered that name. um the general of digital space supervision, Alexander Sabar, and then Roblox's vice president for global public policy, Nikki Jackson, uh Kalako. Um so Roblox is treating this like a whim. Uh or or or trying to put on a brave face about it in that way. Um we've talked about facial scans and safety and and stuff to death on this. Um, but this is the same. It's the same thing in a different space. They promise that they don't save the images. They run it through an AI and then that AI tells you if you're old enough or not. And if you say no, you're not going to do it, they automatically put you into a kidsuh thing. Um, I always come back to

there has to be a better way to do this. And I'm not saying a cheaper way to do this, but one that also there has to be a better way that to do this that still allows Roblox to make a ton of money, just not all of the money.
Um,
yeah.
And yes, Feldar. Yes. Uh, the different age groups on Roblox allow different groups to do different things. And I I I want to say the 13 I just read it in the article, too. I I think it has something to do with the 13 to 15 demo can only talk to them. 5 to 12 can't talk to anyone.
I I also want to just point out that this is backwards. Like I just I really want to point out that like at absolute best at like 1 million% the best option, right? Let's say that this is the best way to do this, right? It's still

backwards. Why are they scanning the kids to get the kids into the kids group? Why are they not putting everyone in the kids group and then scanning to opt out? They're trying to scan the kids. They This isn't This isn't
Well, they they are kind of doing that though, too. They If you don't scan, they put you in the kid group,
right? It just it feels like the way that at least the AP is presenting this and the way that it feels like it's being presented is still like they're asking kids to take Okay, I just want to raise like 10,000 red flags over the idea that Roblox, a company that is notorious for not taking the safety of children seriously and for exposing children through their own negligence to serious harm on the internet, is now asking kids to take a video selfie. I just want to raise like 10,000 red flags over that concept as like
also also no just no.
There's also this didn't come out yet,

right? The the Roblox short that [clears throat] not come out yet
with the new pricing model.
I don't remember.
I'm going to check if it doesn't lock me out a 100,000 times. Uh the YouTube back end is being special. Uh no, that's not out yet. Uh Will wrote a wonderful uh short and uh I believe uh Scott illustrated it about um the new subscription model for Roblox as well. So even beyond this there's like beyond this level of invasive security and air quote safety um they're also making their subscription model far far worse. Um and essentially turning it into um what I would call pyramid schemed. I know other people uh you know at the channel and whatnot say more pyramid shaped um but it is essentially where it rewards you for making things that get other people to sign up for the service that you are already paying to be a part of. Like the entire thing of this is just like I it's it's triply awful to me

because Roblox as a concept is a wonderful thing to get kids into learning how to make games and get excited about making games.
And the way that this this company is is positioning itself, it's like turning that joy into a trap. And it that's awful. And I don't know how you come back from that other than making a pledge to literally not make all of the money. Just make a lot of the money.
Yep.
Extravagant wealth is a mental illness. Like it it
it is it
it's it's infuriating. I I I it sucks that like and of course governments are going to get on board with this because it's the we've talked about this before and I'm sorry if this is a repeat of everything.

This is theater.
Even though it's a terrible idea, it's not going to make anyone safer, but they can say, "Look what we did. We did a thing to make kids safer." No, you didn't. You just did a thing that said you were going to make kids safer.
Yeah. you know, uh I'm I'm I'm with Barry. It can I just trade depression for extravagant wealth?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big big same.
Luckily, I also believe that those who are this much in charge are actually or sorry, the the level of wealth that turns you into having a mental illness. I I don't believe I think while you might have u intermittent moments of happiness, I do not think that I think the everpresent drive of number go up will always make you not happy. And I do sleep ever so slightly better at night uh thinking about that.
Yeah, 100%.
Anyway,
yeah. Uh okay, it's time for my magic moment. I've got two magic stories for

you and they're not alike and they're very interesting. So,
I don't play ESO. Sorry. I've tried it. I liked it, but I do not have time.
Yeah. Right. Okay. First off, and very excitingly, the Magic THE GATHERING ARENA TEAM IS unionizing up the Union. Uh, fantastic. Wonderful. They're asking for voluntary recognition uh from Wizards of the Coast. This is great. Um, they have
Yeah, this is wonderful.
Yeah, this is awesome. They're organizing under Communications Workers of America. There's about a hundred people in the team and one of the things that people are are asking for u there are petitions circulating online I neglected to grab one um asking let's find one asking wizards to voluntarily recognize the union um and because magic is a community that is driven so heavily by the players uh I really think that this is a place where your voice in supporting a nent union is valuable right if we want to see more unions in

the gaming space, we need to make good loud noise when a union forms. Um, and of course they're asking for the usual things, pay protection, AI protection, all of all of the usuals. Um, but uh yeah, now someone someone asked uh the the real question, which is, hey, does that look like the Pinkertons? Yes, there is uh there there are rumors that the Wizards is going to attempt to union bust this, which is why your voice matters so very much uh in this matter, right? Like
I just put in uh the if you could put it on Twitch, I put it on YouTube. They they have a site, the Union Wizardsofthe coast.com that tells the the um
what's it called? The the platforms to let them know and we'll put it in the show notes.
Yep. We will we will put that in our in our show notes. Uh so you can you can go and support them directly. Uh but again, I know lots of big fans of unions here. Uh and if you want to do something, lend your voice to this. Uh especially if

you're an active Magic player. Um that that does mean a lot. Uh so that's a good piece of news here about Magic. And now we've got a weird piece of news about Magic.
Yeah.
Because over the weekend was Magic Con Las Vegas. And at Magic Con Las Vegas, they announced a bunch of things. They announced a bunch of upcoming sets. Like there's one where Jace Bolerin, whose dad definitely owns a car dealership, creates an echover verse, like a mirror universe where everything's good, except he turns his girlfriend into a cop, which tells you a lot about Jace Bolerin. Um, so, uh,
isn't that what happens in Arcane?
That's a great question, Matt. Next question. Okay,
there's a whole bunch of they announced a whole bunch of sets and a whole bunch of stuff and all of that stuff. But one of the things that they announced and the most important one for our discussion is they announced the a bunch of cards from the Hobbit,
a Hobbit set which is coming out later this year. And among the cards that were announced were some reprints of highly soughtafter cards that had seen an initial printing in Lord of the Rings

and haven't been reprinted because Lord of the Rings is universe beyond set. See our recent episode on that for all of the problems with universes beyond. But they showed us the one ring and there's a problem which is that some people noticed that the one ring looks a lot like the one ring if you flip it.
They took it too literally really is what happened.
Yeah. So, okay. So, on the right is the mirrored version of the borderless one ring from the original Lord of the Rings set. And on the left, you see one of the versions of the one ring from the Hobbit. Other than being mirrored, the one on the right has not been altered at all. Kind of a problem. So, um they are uh it appears as though the one on the left has had the um Elvish writing smudged

out. Uh, you can tell that they are the same ring because if you look at the reflections, and you don't need to zoom in terribly far for this.
No, you can see it. Just link ping pong your eyes back and forth. It's not
If you If you look at the reflections on the inside of the band, they are identical. The reflections on the inside of the band on both are identical. So, this is a problem. now.
And it's not a problem because, let's be very clear, I have no problem from a uh printing of a card looking or taking art that's already been made. What I have a problem with is how the original artist is nowhere to be found in the crediting of the new card.
That is correct. The original artist is uh Oh god. I'm going to make sure I get her name straight. Um
get it right.
I'm gonna get it right. gonna get it right. Um
I believe it's Marta something Marta. Um

can't
this brain fog brought to you by
Joe too many
trying to dodge ring rates
right Marta. Um
I just forget what Marta's actual uh last name is.
Last name is
Nail a A N A L. Thank you so much. Um,
and this new art is this new art is by Dan Frasier,
right?
WHO IS A LONG-TERM MAGIC?
YEAH, CORRECT. Dan Frasier has been making magic art for a gajillion years. He's 81. Okay. And then the story gets weird because Wizards fessed up and threw Dan under the bus. The statement from Wizards is that um Dan so so Wizards released a three-part set uh three-part message. One, hey fans noticed a problem. Then they released a a a statement from Dan saying essentially, and I will paraphrase that he feels really bad because he um used

Martyr's ring as a reference and painted over it. Okay. Okay.
And then Wizards is saying, "Hey, this wasn't intentional." Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Um, you know, Dan made a mistake. He's fessing up to it. Let's all move on from this. Essentially, thank you to the fans for noticing and calling this out.
Yeah.
I have a question, Matt, and it's it's a professional question for you.
Oh, good. I'm a professional. I'm wearing a shirt with donuts on it.
That's right. How many times does art for our channel go through art revisions?
Three, two, three. Depends on the show.
Okay. And many different people see it from the artist. You see it. Um sees it before it gets posted
andor read the edit,
right? Uh and and uh what's been actually really great about the process is um every once in a while and this

could be either a reference or a piece of art or it could be even um a tone check like uh like what I really do like is almost everybody on every sort of level if there's something that like 90% of people miss and they're like uh oh this Sonic still has the bad teeth AND YOU'RE LIKE OH NO AND LIKE YOU kind of you can there's a lot of catchalls
right? Okay. So, we
although that is to say, I want to make it very clear, we also have made mistakes. [laughter]
Yeah.
But we are not Wizards of the Coast.
Sure.
Okay. All right. So,
and this DOESN'T COUNT AS THAT. LIKE, this is a different thing,
right? So, there there's there's a lot of there's a lot of of concern here. One, that's definitely a Dan Frasier background. That is Dan Frasier's background style. That is not in question at all.
Yeah.
Right. That's definitely a Dan Frasier background.

Lots of people feel like we're not getting the whole story here because Dan Frasier has done a lot of art and this does not feel like him. Even like they're trying to be like, "Oh, Dan Frasier's old. He's 81. He made a mistake. He he had a brain lapse."
So, wait. Do you think Hold on, Will. Are you Can you Wait. put on the tin foil hat because I have a question.
Yeah.
So, do you is the community sort of thinking like this is magic saying that Dan is working on things when things that Dan is actually not working on. The current theory is THAT
OH, DANG.
The the current working fan theory, and this is something that I think is plausible, and I will ask everyone to engage their tinfoil hats, is that Dan was going back and this is an iconic card. This is a card that matters a lot. Dan was going back and forth with the art direction multiple times. And what may have happened, and this is again a conjecture based on a reasonable line of

thought, I believe this was supposed to be a mockup.
I believe that this was Dan sending in a mockup asking the art director, "Hey, this is my background. Is this the kind of thing you want? This is not final." And then Art took it and went, "Yeah, this is good enough. This is what we want. It's everything that we want." And they took it and they didn't
listen when Dan said, "This is a work in progress.
Don't use this." Because they got sent something by an artist that they could legitimately put Dan Frasier's name on and then print it. And that's the most This makes the most sense. However, but so so my motto is always uh you know never never uh expect malice when incompetence will do right like or or never suspect I should say. Um so that

makes total sense. The thing that makes me think it's not that is the fact that in a mockup
you wouldn't
that was a background check. Why would you smudge
Yeah.
the lettering?
I I agree. And I think that that may have been done after the fact cuz it's done poorly. Um if you look in the bottom uh so it's sort of um in the bottom right quadrant of the ring.
I like this too. Any sufficiently advancing competence is indistinguishable from malice. Fair. I mean it's it's malice from the other direction, right? Like
if you look at the bottom right hand corner, you can see that the end of one of the runes is still there. It's a bad Photoshop job. You can see there's an upward stem in the middle at like the sort of the the 6:00 position on the ring. There's an upward stem that's still lighter than everything else. And if you look to the right of that at sort of the five o'clock position, there's

the remainder of a rune there. So like it's not even well done as a smudge job. like this is just a bad piece of art for a cart like and and so there's a bunch of things, right? And and I don't want to get too deep into the uh into the conspiracy theory track even though I took us there. Um I do just want to say this is emblematic of Watsi not giving a crap about one of the most iconic universes beyond sets that they're going to release this year. No one gave a crap about Ninja Turtles. Sorry. Nobody cared. Apparently the four player box set different rules is pretty fun. But that's about it.
It is right. But like that's a cool idea, but nobody cared about the IP. Lots of people were going to care about The Hobbit. And they screwed this up. They screwed this up. Not a little bit. Even let's let's say
are these cards printed?
Yeah,
these are out. These are out in the world.
They're not out in the world, but they're definitely printed because their print run is so far in advance. I would be absolutely shocked if there isn't a warehouse full of these right now.
Row.

Yeah. Um so uh the uh people are asking
we will actually soy we we can do this eventually uh to uh it is small we don't normally go this deep into the pictures that we're doing. We could do that next time. That makes a lot of sense.
Yeah. Um so uh the
we'll also put a link to the you know later on if you're interested link to the picture in the show notes.
So um basically I just think this is emblematic of Watsy's quality control slipping and their lack of care. Um, really,
but like why not just say like why make Dan do it? Like I I this is why I this is why I'm I'm going back and forth on the idea that it's a temp thing and then they're just throwing him under the bus. Like that doesn't help. Like that actually seems to hurt the story more than if Watsi was like Dan sent over a temp thing. He was checking out a background. It got through our process. We're working on ways to fix this. Sometimes this stuff happens. It's crazy it happened on this important card. We

are so sorry. Like that would have made if if if Dan had nothing to like throwing Dan under the bus doesn't help Watsi because it's still their mess up, right? It's it's either Watsy's mess up or Dan and Watsy's mess up.
I think that they believe that throwing Dan under the bus absolves them.
It's crazy. I don't They have done this. They have done this before where artists have used AI or other stuff and they've said, "Hey, not on us. this artist screwed up and they've thrown the independent because the artists don't work for Watsi. They're all contractors.
Yeah, they're contractors.
So, they throw an artist under the bus to make Watsi look okay and like that's that's it's just it's a mess.
Well, this stinks.
Yeah, this is this has been Will's magic moment. One good story, one bad story.
Will's magic moment.
Uh, all right. Now, it is time for ads. Uh, Twitch is about to get real ads for things they can buy. We're going to give you fake ads for things you can't buy

while they do that and then we'll get on with the rest of the show. Matt, would you please sell us a thing that you can't buy? Hey everyone, Matt from Extra Credits alongside of Will of Extra Credits being here at the Extra Credits Breakfast Studio at extra credits.com.edu/org. Listen, I think that I would like to sell you the thing I'm going to sell you today that you cannot buy. It's because I don't have the money to sell it or own it to you is QVC. That is right. QVC back in the day was a bastion of selling things to you online where you were just told exactly what you wanted to watch at specific hours. For instance, if we were trying to sell you Magic cards that were slightly altered to make sure that artists weren't given credit, that would be a whole show that would be an hourong block where there'd be two hosts, not unlike Will and myself, who would talk you through the process of why you need to buy these exquisitly crafted forgeries. But I can't sell you that. Not my best. Three of 10. Will, you're up. THREE, TWO, ONE, LET'S JAM.
Hi everyone. Will from Extra Credits

next to Matt from Extra Credits. You can be found here at extraracits.edu/orgcom/io. That's right. Here to sell you the trust thermocline. That's right. Do you see that precipice that you as a company are hurdling towards? You're far less than 6 ft from that edge. And I'm thinking that is an infinitely long cliff. That's right. The trust thermline is the place where your customers will never trust you again. GameStop passed it. That's why this Alibbeay thing stinks. Wizards is rapidly approaching it. That's why people are losing faith in Magic the Gathering. The trust thermocline. You should know about it before you fall off of it.
Yeah. Hey everyone, WILL'S FRIEND MATT from Extra Credits over next to Will at the animatedfriendre.org. So, okay, we've talked about this this edge that we're 6 feet from and how oh man, it's not that we're we're we're not

close enough to the edge even though we're h hurtling towards it, right? Maybe 6 feet I'm going to this is what I'm trying to sell you. Maybe 6 ft is so far down. Like you could you could drown in an inch of water. You could really hurt yourself if you fall off a cliff that is 6 ft down. I guess it's it wouldn't be a cliff. But regardless, we shouldn't be saying maybe 6 feet isn't so far down. You could hurt yourself. Yep. That's fair. Uh is Toasty visiting? Cuz I smell toast. Listen. LISTEN. UM, HOLD ME [screaming] NOW. And like I'm not saying that there aren't people who have lost trust in Watsi, right? There are definitely people who have done that. My my two favorite formats are formats that don't have boosters associated with them.
Yeah.
Right. It's popper and commander and I never need to buy cards to play both of those for as long as I want. Right. And so like I'm I'm very much there. I'm

also saying that again, and this is incredibly important when we talk about stories like this, none of you are the average consumer. Again, and and this I have to repeat this every time. Nobody Nobody here is the average consumer. You're watching two people in an animated breakfast kitchen on a Monday morning/ afternoon talk about industry news and do memes and things. You're not the average consumer who just goes in and buys packs, right? Even the average consumer of Magic. There are plenty of people who casually play Magic at the kitchen table. Wizards own market research says that the majority of Magic players do not play a format and instead play Magic at their kitchen table using unsleeved cards.
Oh yeah, I get a bunch of I get a bunch of guff when I go uh and I play with uh Sephi or Jasmine or any of them. these conventions where I'm like I just don't

sleep. I sleaved my first deck last year.
Right. Yeah. [snorts] Right. Okay. Cool. Great. Awesome. Excellent. All right. Let us move on. There have been many innovations in the world of video games. There was Pong,
of course.
Three-dimensional graphics.
Absolutely.
Internet connected games.
You know it,
right? Doom. first person shooters. But now I'm happy to report that Battlefield has unleashed a new kind of innovation on the world. That's right. They've combined two things that have never been combined before. Pre-ordering and battle passes. Now, strictly speaking,
if only this came before us selling you things that you can't buy. [laughter] right now. Strictly speaking, they're not the first, but they're probably the biggest group to do this.

Why
tell me your thing has no value without telling me your thing has no value? You have to grift the grift to get the grifting going. I don't have a problem with the battle pass model in general. I don't. I think some battle passes are more valuable than others and and and value is incredibly uh you know based on a person's own individual definition of the fact on their thing that they're working with or playing with or using it for. Um subjective is the word I was looking for. I think that pre-ordering a battle pass for extra stuff is dumb.
I agree.
[snorts]
I agree. I think so.
And a lot of people a lot of people it it's funny. They're getting dunked on. The whole thing has become a bit of a meme. That's fine. People are still buying it.
Y
So maybe maybe Will maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe this is the future. Maybe this is a a bright shining beacon on a hill where where uh we actually just keep paying for things that never come out. That's what we're getting to.
Yeah. So, uh, important to note, um, several things. One, this isn't a critique of the battle pass system of user engagement. That has its own merits and upsides and downsides. Two, lots of people, um, only buy the battle pass uh, when it's done. Highly recommend that. And three, this is not the first time you've been able to buy the battle pass ahead of time on on any live service game. Arena, you could on Magic Arena. We just talked about the union for that. You could buy the battle pass ahead of time. They didn't do it for this last set, which is kind of interesting. Um, but it was cheaper. You could buy it ahead of time for a discount instead of at the same price and getting extra stuff. So, feels different to me at least. Um, also worth noting that I

don't actually know how Battlefield's battle pass works if it's cosmetic only or if it's power. I think it's cosmetic only. Arena's whole model is gacha based. It's a gacha game.
If you don't think Arena is a gacha game,
maybe take a look at that because it's definitely a gacha game.
Um,
it's just it's it's and and and to come from EA and for this game, it's just like, yo, dog, we heard you liked Griff, so we put a Grift on your Grift that you could buy it early with Grift Plus. And it's like I don't again I don't play Battlefield. Maybe there is the value to it if I hope I I hope there's value in it for people who play Battlefield. But like the idea of pre-ordering the battle pass and only getting exclusive stuff you can't get in the battle pass that is supposed to be the bastion of exclusive stuff you get unless you don't unless you if or if you

buy the battle pass is just it's like it's like a fractal going the wrong direction. I don't know.
Yep. But you know what you could use to play Battlefield to earn all of the tasty things from your battle pass?
Perhaps a new a new item.
A new peripheral,
a new onethird of the things I'm excited about.
That's right.
Yay. Welcome to the Steam Machine watch. The controller. Yes,
the Steam controller is now out in the wild. Tech reviewers at least have it. Are they selling it? Selling it?
Yeah, they're selling it. It's $99 on Steam.
People are saying that it is a fairly good, robust controller. Will, have you gotten to play with it? Have you researched it a bunch? What's the What's the deal?
I am probably getting it. Um Oh, it it

is still officially coming soon, but it is up for pre-order. Um, and it is at uh, yeah, available uh, today. Literally later today.
May the 4th be with you.
Um, opens in 40 minutes.
Oh, so right at the end of the show if you want.
At the end of the show. Yeah. Um, I will probably be getting one. I liked the last Steam Controller quite a lot and I'm kind of interested to see how this one does with Final Fantasy because I'm consistent to a fault. Um, yeah, it it's getting good reviews. It is definitely a new interesting way to play the game and I like the idea that it's got dual touchpads. I think it's good. Um so yeah,
the the the the look of it and I know everyone's saying that it it almost every review is positive. Um the thumb sticks in conjunction, I guess they're not that different. Like I'm just looking at a PlayStation controller like I guess the the pads are just like down here, right? like it's a it's a deeper controller down so you can move your thumbs. It always feels in pictures

whenever I see a a touch pad and the analog stick and the the buttons, it always feels like there's just like the sticks are too high, but I I'm I know that they must not be.
Yeah, Sleepy Will will give a review when he when he eventually gets it.
Yes, absolutely. That is 100% on my list of things to do. Um,
or you would have done it today, but you can't get it for 40 minutes and then the show's over. If this was Friday, like we're moving the show to
Yeah.
in a month and a half.
Yeah.
Perhaps we'd have it.
Yeah. Uh,
in fact, I blame this story specifically for the entire move.
That's right. This one and no other.
The Steam Machine uh also due to RAM issues is uh a bit on not hold, but they haven't announced a um Oh, HELLO DEAD OF THE SEA. I like that. That's a fun name. Hi, Dad of the Sean. Um, God, how late is it there? Um, is it breakfast time? The Um, I I'm very excited for the Steam

Machine. I am very curious how supplies of it will last even when they do announce it. I think the reason they've even been very public about it, they're like, "Yeah, it's Ram cost and RAM availability and we can't get enough to have enough for launch essentially." So, um,
you know, and and I trust Steam to be transparent. Yeah, I
I trust Valve to be uh transparent to a fault about this. Um so yeah.
Yeah.
Well, uh more thoughts when I get the Steam my hands on the Steam Controller and I will be in line in 40 minutes trying to buy this.
I will be getting it probably when I get a Steam machine. I think I'm going to try to if there's a bundle with that and the headset and something else if that's possible. That's going to be what I go for. Um yeah, and comps sort of. Yeah. Like I I really want something that is a standalone. I love my PSVR 2. I've actually been getting really back into synapse and um and mosque. I never beat Moss. Um and I'd like to live Mosque. So I think uh yeah, I'm at the Pizza Hut. I'm at the Taco Bell. I'm now just falling on myself with references.

Yeah, but we'll be on the lookout. Hopefully the the rumor is that it's going to be a couple months away for the machine at least. I don't know when the headset will be, but
we'll see. uh a company that could stand to be a little more transparent and would probably save themselves some headaches. Sony with the PlayStation DRM. Matt, you've got the details and thoughts.
Yes. So, as the resident Sony pony, this uh story broke a bit ago. And it's funny, Will, because the um the when it broke, obviously DRM is a thing that people do not like uh and makes games harder to use. and they're, you know, I that's kind of not what we're talking about, but Sony under the hood essentially changed the way that um that you have your license for the digital games that you've bought. And again, this is a good reminder to everyone on everything, be it our our sweet, sweet baby boy Steam or any digital storefront that you ever

possibly have, none of us own the things we are buying. We are buying perpetual leases or not leases, licenses that can uh essentially one way or the other go away at the drop of a hat. Nothing is forever. It's it's that is what it is. I think we all kind of know that. Uh that's why we buy a lot of physical stuff. But the um this was a change under the hood that got people sort of very very nervous because it was it seemed like on the surface that PlayStation was requiring an internet connection pretty consistently to make sure you owned the digital game that you had on uh your system. It turns out that is true but not true. in a very typical Sony fashion. Uh they made a change and did not communicate it well at all. Essentially, from what I've gathered, and there's two different stories here, um in the show notes that you'll be able to see, they're both from uh Kotaku. And finally, after a few days, Sony kind of

set the record straight, that there is essentially a one-time check that happens. So, you're going to buy the game. You have to be you'll be online to buy the game, right? to download the game and then sometime within the next 30 days after that purchase, it will ping back, I think later in that span, and move your license from essentially what is a temporary license to a an air quotes permanent license. Um, and so yes, statistically, you will have to be online at least one other time, sometime in a 30-day span to officially, and I use this in air quotes, own your digital purchase. But it's not a consistent thing. It's not like something that it has to keep going back to check. And I believe this is implemented due to a couple different uh hacks on um returning games like getting refunds on digital games. And there was something I want to say with Star Wars Racer of all things that like let you kind of get past some things here. And I

think this is why they've implemented a change overall. Again, the Kotaku article goes into uh more detail, but this was a thing that it's funny. I like this story a lot because I do want people to be diligent and know when things are changing and kind of make sure that companies as large as Sony, you do kind of hold their feet to the fire a bit to like okay like to me the process that is exists now does in the in the grand scheme of how we digitally purchase games does not seem that intrusive. But they tried to essentially kind of shadow drop a thing and then eagle-eyed people noticed and then that's when the freakout happens because Sony hasn't said anything. And I hope that things like this train Sony marketing or Sony social media to be like, "Hey everyone, we're doing a thing. Here's how it works." And I know that there's not often budget for those things, but I think after enough of these kurfles, it might be time to like get that a little bit more robust. Yeah.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And grass kind of hit it, too. Yeah.
So, again, it's funny. I saw someone, it might have been um someone in the chat said this way earlier, uh B, I uh something about like basically cuz I know that this story is in our show title. We understand that it was like I find the story interesting because it is the story itself in my opinion is a nothing burger but the reaction of people who find a thing and the inaction of Sony to explain the thing and what can be learned from that I feel like is a is a worthwhile thing to discuss. Does that make sense?
Yeah. Um,
yeah,
because like the the back and forth between customers and companies is always worth taking a look at when it happens with something like this, right? Yeah. So, the I think the bottom line is Sony really needs to have a better or a better methodology or better way to do this, right? But I I I wonder how my I guess my question is how

prevalent was the problem that people were refunding and then keeping digital games or or
I imagine it was probably like not terribly prevalent, but also like there's truly there's nothing wrong with oh, you notice someone did an exploit, patch it. But the problem here is the the they're patching their process. And when you do that, you have to tell people you're doing that,
right?
Right. Like
um Yeah. I just think
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was uh BFH, I believe, was saying this in the beginning of the I think it was you who were saying in the beginning of the show, like basically how we got to the end of the story of what it actually was. So, um Yeah. Nintendo looking nervously around the corner.
Um
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. and and and so
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, Nintendo basically Yeah. since the Switch One launched. Yeah.
Um I I I I do just want to call something out. Uh yes, this is very much the PS5 version of turn off the Wi-Fi on

your Kindle to keep your library book forever. Don't don't do that. Please don't do that. It screws with library tracking and libraries are already having a tenuous time with ebooks as it is.
Yeah.
I totally understand the desire to do that, but doing that end ends up hurting your library and libraries are great and everyone should patronize their local library. uh get a library card.
Even if you don't go a lot, go get a library card.
Yeah, get a library card because they they have a number of people with library cards is a statistic that they can use to get funding from local governments. If you're if you're not in the states and you're like, why is this a thing? Libraries are like one of the last holdouts of like really good public service in the United States.
We stay we stay in libraries forever.
Yeah. Um,
also thank a librarian.
Yeah,
thank thankless job.
Yeah, absolutely. Uh, okay, Matt, would you like to talk about a PS5 exclusive release?
I I WOULD LET'S SPIN Let's spin the

story a little bit more positive here as we're we're coming into the back end of our of our series. Soros launched and there was much rejoicing. For those of you who don't know, I am uh I would argue one of the largest Returnal stands to the point where thanks to some uh some some grit and some doing a lot of streams and some folks on on chat uh I have platinum Returnal finally. I am in the 1.5% club. I've don't think I've ever tried to platinum a game before. Well, no, I did. I tried to do Dante's Inferno and it didn't click and that knocked me off the entire time. Uh but the um the sun is forever. Soros the the next uh game from Housemark who origin, you know, has basically been making their games ever since the PS4 Reso gun which I really really enjoyed into Returnal into Sorrowos continually iterating on their thing. And I wanted to talk about what I'm This is more of a question to chat. Brad and Janet, Twitch and YouTube. Nebula, please blue sky us if

you have any ideas on what I'm about to ask. I love this game. I've been playing it a lot. Um, I was really hyped for it and and at least in my algorithm, it was kind of all over the place because that's all of our all the things we see are different, right? But something about this launch sort of like feels different to me than other large launches. And I'm wondering if it's just because it's actually a small launch that my algorithm is treating like a large launch. Do you know what I mean? Like I guess the first question is people who aren't into Housemark Games or Returnal or Sorrowos or whatever, how much have this have you sort of seen in the wild right now? Have you seen your the gaming websites you go to push it? Have creators you follow been playing it? like um yeah, I'm just curious because I you barely seen Sorrowos here on the other channels to play it. Streamers playing it by quite a bit. Very little. Okay, so like

[clears throat] there's something when a large game drops like Resident Evil 9 like everything everything felt the right size to me. And by the way, the what I'm asking isn't a I'll talk about what I think about Sorrow sort of at the end of this, but um that was a thing that everyone Oh, yeah. Second Wind. Yep. Yep. Yep. Uh you see games that are different from most people. If I didn't know better, I would think you might be the only one who cares. That's so sad. Uh only see it on Game Awards and your PS5. So I I think this is sort of my first time in a long time where initially the algorithm was able to train me my my personal one across all my social medias was able to train me into thinking and feeling that this game was the biggest

launch of 2026. Like, and I'm not saying I didn't like it, but I'm also saying this is the time this is the first time that I've like kind of caught myself. I've been like something about how this is being fed to me feels off. And again, this is not any This has nothing to do with the quality of the game. I love the game a lot. I wish it was getting more I wish more people were getting the element of my algorithm that this was being fed to me to. Um, but I was just curious like has has anyone else noticed a thing in your niches that like what you saw on social media made you feel like you were sort of at the center of a gaming moment? Like your individual interests have aligned with the overall zeitgeist and it feels bigger than it actually is. I know this is a weird question. It's a bit esoteric. Well, do you have an answer for that?
I I feel like it happens a lot with me

with um uh Final Fantasy,
right? Like because I'm so deep in like Final Fantasy cuz I play it's Final Fantasy 14 is my daily play game. I get off of stream and finish all of my work and whatever and then I log in and do like dailies and achievement hunting and I cleared the new EX last night and I'm very hyped about that and uh so it feels like every time there's a patch it's like all anyone is talking about. But then I realized that like outside of my bubble, no one cares, which is fine. But like I I do have to like mentally check myself repeatedly to like make sure that like
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's interesting too like Emily good point here. Slay the Spire felt huge for me even though maybe maybe not. I think it might have like it all depends on when that was right.
Spire Spire 2 broke containment. I would say Spire 2 uh is the most successful rogike launch in the history of Steam.
Yeah. And so that one is a little weird and a little different, right? So Spire

2 is currently the fifth most played game on stream, right? Behind Counterstrike, Dota, PUBG, and 5M, which is a mod for um uh Grand Theft Auto.
Yeah.
Right. And it's not far behind that.
Yeah. Uh, I it was just it was the first time in a long time I'd sort of like clocked that and I don't know it was an odd feeling. Now Soros in general loving it. I think it's great. I will hold my judgment on it entirely until I have beat it or come close to beating it. I'm only on Biome 2. We'll be streaming it again on Thursday uh 4 p.m. on Twitch. I think that um so far the story connective tissue is not it while it's very interesting is not so well mixed with the mechanical m the the the gameplay minations of what it does. It

feels less like a rog light than Returnal does. The progression feels more at right now and again maybe I'm not far enough. the progression feels more um on rails in a weird way and the difficulty curve is down because it feels like no matter what the way essentially in return and a lot of people bounced off it for this and I I understand why they think they moved in this other direction the your progression in Sorrowos essentially as long as you're collecting uh lucid or whatever it's called the little yellow things you'll be making because you get some of it at every time you die you go back to base and you can spend it on upgrades that's a real one to one thing. Whereas Returnal, the only thing you could bring back was a thing called ether, and the only thing you could spend that on was in-game or at one little vendor to get a uh an item you might not have gotten yet at the start of another run. But you don't move it get any abilities until you beat biomes. And there's some in here, too.

Like I beat biome one finally, and uh this is a minor spoiler. Like there's little jump pads that we noticed when we were playing on Thursday and you get the ability to use them to spring up and get to different levels, right? But it just so far while I think the game play and the minute-to-minute shooting mechanics of Sorrowos are second to none, I actually can't think of a a bullet hell shooter that runs better or that feels better than this game, even Returnal. I think the overall package doesn't doesn't uh like coales into like a perfect experience like Returnal did. Again, I this is not to say you shouldn't try to play it if you like Returnal. Hell, this might be an a gateway into training you up to play Returnal. Um, but it was just sort of interesting. And the other image that uh Will, I had you prep was something was very fun cuz uh IGN was one of the only groups that g Did I give you a second image?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you did. Sorry. [clears throat]
Uh with Alana Pierce, there's um our uh the hero of the of the game and the actor Rahul. I'm going to butcher this.

Uh Kohley's uh basically wearing an IGN 7 out of 10 shirt while they're streaming Sorrowos. He's the main character in the game who did the mocap and the voice. Um and many other places have been giving it nine out of 10 and all this stuff. And like you know your your value prop on on numerical ratings of games can vary. Uh but I do like how uh he was sort of rolling with that uh on this tube. I thought it was very very funny. He's he seems like an awesome dude. I don't know him personally, but he just seems uh Yeah.
All right.
Seems great.
Cool. Cool. Cool. And again, check uh come join us on Thursday. Thursday afternoon. It's on the schedule. It's right after Design Club. Um we'll be playing more Sorrows.
Yeah. Yep.
Time for Gaming Law.
It's like tree law only. Gaming law. Number one, a followup on the ongoing saga of Subnotica 2. It finally has an early access release date. Games are already scrambling to get out of the way. Um,

but it finally has a release date. We will finally see it and be able to play it for ourselves and determine whether or not the concerns of the publisher were founded and actually get our hands on it.
You be the judge.
Right. That's right. Um, this is sort of the next big public facing forward motion thing on this. Um there have been a whole bunch of weird minor um what's what's the I want to say enjoiners but that's not right like court orders about the way that this needs to proceed and one of them is getting the game out the door. So they're doing that. So that's the next big step. So, please look forward to the Subnotica 2 uh early access launch. And please, if you've been invested in the story, consider playing it for yourself to determine whether or not it's actually good.
Yeah. On May 14th,
your own well-informed personally like vested opinion on the subject.
Boot it up and then just say,
"Hello there."
And then you'll know you'll know how the

game fares for you.
Yeah. Exactly. All right. Uh, and then our second uh, gaming law story is in regards to Dark and Darker.
Man, we did a we did an episode on this two years ago.
Yeah. Uh, actual two years ago. It'll be in the show notes. Iron Mace has been ordered by the South Korean Supreme Court to pay $3.84 million to Nexon in damages. This is not the conclusion of the criminal trial. This is the civil trial between Iron Mace and Nexon.
But if this is anything to go off of, this is going to be pretty big. And it may spell the end of Dark and Darker, at least as far as Iron Mace is concerned, next time they pick it up. But whatever.
The full story is on the episode. You can watch in the show notes uh of how it got to this point. This is sort of the con one of the one of the conclusions in this in this tale. But essentially uh

Nexon claims that that Iron Mace was working that crew from Nexon were working on a game that was very much like Dark and Darker and because they I think during co had computers at home with with elements and and uh proprietary things for Nexon. uh when they left or they scrapped that game and developers left and then they made Iron Mason and made Dark and Darker that they took proprietary code secrets something or whatever and used it in the game. And so there's been multiple trials around it and now uh it seems like one of them has come down and we will see how um uh yeah, we'll see we'll see how this goes in the criminal court next. Uh but this has been a long time coming. Um, and this brings up a lot of things too, like I don't know. Again, it's all turns out the law is complicated. Um, I don't know. You can see sort of depending on what is true and what is

not. You could go either way on a lot of this stuff. I'm not a fan of Nexon by any means of the imagination. Um, but it all depends how malicious things were, I suppose.
Exactly. So, all right. Uh, I have a weird fun tidbit story for you. Uh, which is a story about a Japanese store and their solution to Pokemon scalpers. So, okay. So, if you're not familiar at all with the market for Pokemon trading cards, it is the wild lawless west.
It is absurd. There are people taking gram accurate scales into stores to weigh packs to find the to find the cart the the packs with foils in them so that they can get the best return on their investment like in stores. There are, you know, fights. Someone got run over over their Pokemon cards in like I think a Costco parking lot. Like it is wild.

And this is not a even a US specific phenomena. Pokemon card scalping exists in pretty much every market where it is uh sold, including Japan. So, a Japanese store has a solution to this. Um, this is Bick Camera. Uh they are implementing a system where if you want to buy the new expansion Ninja Spinner, you have to pass a Pokemon quiz, which I love. I I love I kind of love like a lot as a solution, right? Cuz it's not a difficult quiz. It's like basic Pokemon knowledge that if you're at all a fan of the show or the the franchises, you you will know like you will know the answers to this. And if you're a scalper who

doesn't actually participate in the fandom, you will have no chance.
You are not allowed to look up answers. I believe you're not allowed to use your phone. They just give you the sheet and like watch you. I don't know how they sort of like
you can't use your phone. You can't look up answers. Um, if you if anyone is caught taking a picture of the test, the comp the the company says they will simply stop selling Pokemon cards altogether.
Um,
well, we'll see. I don't know if they'd actually do that, but that's a good threat.
I mean, it's a very good threat. It's fantastic. Uh, I'm I'm very I'm very it like it's great. I love this as like a weird creative solution to an ongoing problem. Um, there's a Pokemon vending machine in a in a grocery store near me and it has like time. It like pays out it only has a certain amount of stock that it will sell in certain units of time. And I have seen adults loitering around waiting for it to restock. Yeah.
So that they can buy out the machine

again. I actually felt this way. Uh, Volians, I actually felt this way too because like it is it is gatekeeping but I think truly it will sort of do more good than harm. Um, like because there is a problem, right? The problem is that the barrier to entry being zero is causing there to be insufficient supply of stuff.
Oh, you're a Pokemon fan. Name every Pokemon.
Okay. Bulbasaur.
But like you get like there is a weird thing about that.
Yeah, absolutely. It's it is it is a tricky problem. This is not an ideal solution. It is merely a humorous one, I think. Yeah.
Um because
Hey, everyone everyone in chat, name every Pokemon.
Yeah. Go.
That's how we know. That's how we know you're a real Pokemon fan. You have to name everyone
starting.

Yeah.
Ditto. Correct answer. Yeah, that's right. No, they're all Ditto.
That is That is technically the correct answer.
Yeah. Um,
Red, I'm g see if I can click this before it goes by. Trick question. Name the sexy Pokemon.
Nope. We're not falling for that. We're not Markiplier. All right. Um, [laughter]
I like I like everyone's sort of like first Pokemons they're going to
I like Dasher Dancer Prancer Vixen
Dash Dancer Practice Vision comic cub blitz and I got it.
Yeah, that's right.
Shout out to Jingle all the way.
Yeah. Uh, I don't know. I just think this is like an interesting way to approach this because I I think the big problem is that scalpers are
and Alex they're also doing this. You fill out the thing and then you get the thing. And if you buy a box, they open the plastic off the box. Like they don't let you buy sealed.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, not new, by the way. Wizards has done that at cons for mystery boosters before. Um, all kinds of stuff. So,

who is that Pokemon?
Yeah. It's uh it's just very interesting um to to see the way that the industry is responding. All right.
Yeah. Last up, uh, for news stories, we've got my FanFest corner. Uh, we didn't have a show last week because I was at FanFest. Well, I wasn't actually at FanFest. I was in Anaheim the same time that FanFest was happening because of the way that Final Fantasy 14 does FanFest tickets. But they announced the new expansion, Everold. They announced a whole bunch of changes to Final Fantasy 14. I'm excited about all of them. Uh, I will not drag the show on forever, but the short version is they are changing the way that gear acquisition works to make it more friendly to players who only want to play weekly rather than daily. They are changing the combat system up to eliminate a thing called the twominute meta, which a lot of people hate. Uh, well, they hate the two-minute meta. They love that it's going away.
Sure. Um, they have announced uh the

cutest new uh friends that we're going to be getting. They're little dwarf cats with little dwarf cat beards in like little braids. They're perfect. I will defend them loudly and continuously. Uh, and it's great. I'm really looking forward to it. Everything that we saw at FanFest was awesome. Very excited. I'm also very glad that I got to spend time uh with folks out there [snorts] um in Anaheim. It was great. I even got recognized on the street by someone. Amazing. Um, that's an experience that I will never get used to.
Perhaps they're here right now watching us pretend to eat breakfast while we speak.
Yeah, I love how we both had the same thing.
That's how you do it.
Yeah. Uh, FanFest happened. It's good. If you want more thoughts on Evercold or anything else, stick around. I'll be happy to, you know, uh, talk Final Fantasy 14 pretty much anytime. Uh because I love that game so much.
Yeah.
Um

all right. And then Max,
I got two two SMALL THINGS TO FINISH UP. FIRST AND FOREMOST, I PUT OUT A bounty on my returnal help. And while uh uh I actually cuz it was just it was very late on my birthday and I actually finished it. Uh there was one uh there was one person who helped me out on Blue Sky uh quite a bit who is here for a lot of the Returnal stuff. So, and I'll be saying this when we play on Thursday again. I don't know if they're here right now, but uh Dork 77778, uh I believe is the username, uh came back with a lot of different help and tips and tricks on the streams. Uh my bounty was if you helped me get through the end of Returnal, I would figure out a way to get you a Zoey plushy. So, if you're watching this later or whatever, you can blue sky me. I already have your blue sky here. I could try to reach out there, but I'll figure out a way, one way or the other, to get you a Zoey plushy of your choice for the help. I very much appreciate it. Um, next up, this is a weird one. This is a personal one. Uh, a week ago, we can we

can switch the slide. Uh, this is my grandfather. I call him Bubba. Uh, he uh was 98 years old and he passed away. Uh, I'm very sad about this. I'm going to if I talk about it too long, I will start crying. Uh, AND THAT'S NOT HOW WE end this show. But I wanted to call it out here. You know how there's people in your life that like even though they're not into the thing that you're into, they're very supportive of it. Uh he was that guy. I'll I'll make this quick. Uh we can go to the next slide. uh he taught me how

to play chess at a very early age and in return eventually I taught him how to play chess on the internet and I just wanted to say in a in a weird public spot because I don't have a lot of places to do it that I will miss you Bubba and thank you so much for everything that you did. He was a he was in the army. He worked on the literal Star Wars satellite missile defense system before computers were not using punch cards. He eventually bought a farm. Like this dude was amazing.
I think it it's
so Thank you.
It my grandmother was the same way. She did not understand what we do here on the internet and uh didn't get it. But uh one of the stories that will stay with me forever is she was at a doctor's appointment. When we had some public speaking engagement and uh like in the waiting room of a doctor's appointment when they were done, they like finished

the appointment. They went out and they hurried and so she got to watch us do something cool on my dad's phone.
Yeah.
Like a teeny tiny phone. And like she she had no idea what was going on, but was so happy that we do this. And I think there are a lot of people in that generation who might not understand the specifics of all of the ways that culture and gaming and the internet have changed, but they do care about you and they care about us and the things that we do and it's like such a big deal. So, if you have someone like that in your life, reach out and thank them and tell them that you appreciate their support because I think that that is a that's a huge thing that often goes unrecognized.
I I I'll finish I'll finish it up with this. This won't this won't make me cry. He always
[snorts]
uh he didn't understand what I did at all. Uh but he knew, and this is so funny, he knew that Zoe was famous. He had the plushie. He had I got him a

custom hat. Like [clears throat] you can't buy this hat. This was like a hat with like Zoe like peeking over like on his head that he'd wear all the time. It was like a beanie.
And he the first thing he would ask me whenever I saw him was like, "Oh, how's Zoe doing? Is she keeping the lights on?" Or something like that. Like he knew my cat was famous and that was like the thing.
Yeah.
Like that was the question. So anyway, uh a honorary member of the EC family as well. So bye-bye. We'll miss you. And uh yeah, that uh is the end of games for breakfast for this week. Sorry to sort of uh have a little bit of a saccharine moment. And I saw a bunch of very nice wellwishes go by. I'll go back and scroll them. I was not looking at the time. Um yeah. HEY, IF YOU LIKE WATCHING ME CRY, message us ON BLUE SKY. LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE SHOW. IF YOU'RE WATCHING THIS, VON, you've made it to this point. You're the real MVP. Um, over on Nebula, you can talk to us

there. Throw that blue sky thing back up there, Will, if you don't mind. Um, yeah. Uh, say hi. Let us know what you think. Also, I'm still waiting for you to name every Pokemon, or else you're not a real fan. So, uh, you [laughter] can do that on any of the platforms and then we'll send we we'll send you a metaphysical card in your mind allowing you to do other Pokemon things.
Pretty sure there's a Pokemon that does that. Pretty sure if you can name the Pokemon that gives you the credentials that say that you're a real Pokemon fan, then you're a real Pokemon fan even if you can't name all the others.
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Uh, friends. [laughter] Yes, I already do. Um, I guess the only thing left to do is to do our patented sign off that we do the same every week to, you know, keep keep a sense of camaraderie and togetherness as we go into this week of

hopefully getting to play a lot of games. Um, and I think for this one, everyone knows what it is, right? like everyone understands that we say this. We we do the same outro every time. Will, you know exactly what I'm going to do this time.
Yes, of course I do.
So, everyone, I hope you have a lovely week. Please uh stick around if you're on Twitch uh to watch Will's stuff coming up next. Uh and otherwise, I will just leave you if we could all just say the same thing at the same time. I really feel like this would sort of bring us together. I'm telling you to loosen up my buttons, babe. But you keep fronting. Say what you're going to do, but I see nothing. Tell you to loosen up my buttons. YOU CAN'T LOOSEN A BUTTON. THE PUSSYCAT'S DOLL SONG LIES. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW what I'm talking about, it's from the pre-show. You got to come early.