Celebrating 10 Years of Pocket Gamer Connects: The Story Behind the Brand

[Music] [Music] hi everyone my name is Daniel griffi I'm the editor of pocketgamer.biz here at steel media we're here with esteemed members of the steel media team and we're going to be talking about the fact incredible fact that in come 2014 it's going to be 10 years of Pocket Gamer connect event I've got the team here many of which were involved with the very very first Pock game of connect Way Way Back in the in 2014 in London and uh we've got our London event coming up uh in January and in advance of that we

wanted to get together and talk about the history and and how this whole incredible creative monster came about um fellas could you give me a quick introduction of yourselves and what you do at steel and perhaps what you were doing 10 years ago when this whole crazy thing started okay um I'll tell you a bit more about wa we'll start in a second but just so we can get around um yeah I'm son Chris I'm CEO and and co-founder a title a share with several people here of of Ste media and yeah and 10 years ago as I'll show in a minute we were already many years into uh we already about seven or eight years in maybe nine years I don't know certainly in we'd already had the best part of a decade before we got into doing this of Steel Media stuff which I'll talk about in a second but yeah who's who's next um jez yes so I'm jez I'm the creative director for um for St media uh been there from the start uh with with these guys everything creatively that we do um

is through myself and my team uh and we uh we we hopefully get to to evolve what we do um as we go uh so hopefully the 10 years isn't just a repeat of 10 years but um yeah we're always looking for new ideas uh and new ways of presenting it and and Jo you you're there right at the start is that right I was so yes I'm Jo one of the co-founders I think when the events oh connects kicked off I was probably still on in the digital division doing apps or something um and certainly on the editorial side of things the digital Division I love it but then moved across very rapidly to the events uh because they clearly needed my help and I'm still behind the scenes and and D you're the relative newcomer here besides myself of course yeah relative I mean I I joined steel media in 2016 uh and I'm the ceoo now and um however I was kind of a hanger on before then I was an attendee at the first ever Pocket Gamer connects when it launched in 2014 in in in London and and

I've known um the uh uh the steel media team for many years before the event started um but no I formerly came on board in 2016 and and these days I'm I'm very involved in I guess the kind of marketing side and and live at the events as well I um uh I I I I work with the editorial team a little bit as well and and uh and so yeah I in intimately involved in uh live I think I've been since I joined in 2016 I've been to every single game of connects so let's take it back to 2014 can I can I can I start Stu I know I'm going to take over by all means by all means 20 the way I see it 2014 you're doing a bunch of websites and then somehow the penny drops about doing some events I mean what's what's the background to that right okay so I'm gonna do something now to break up the stream very briefly because I think it's instructive to have a very short Whistle Stop tour of where we've been because this whole thing didn't come out of it just didn't just happen overnight oh was do events it was kind of an evolution of where steel media was as a company so this is how

still media started and this was not in 2014 this is 2006 you might recognize some faces there this is a a picture I show a few times uh John's not with us this morning which is typical but um but but J is there doesn't look any different and jez and myself and couple of other folks um and we basically started not doing events we started doing um consumer media we we were people with great great team these guys certainly all had a good track record in magazines and doing the games industry and technology and and we we started off during a company together and we wanted to um we looked at a game we looking something in the game Space and we looked for something that's kind of newish and portable gaming and mobile gaming was were a niche we thought was interesting that wasn't really being covered and so we started with Launch Pocket Gamer In 2006 then we ended up doing this crazy ride where we ended up doing magazines and reviews for mobile phone operators so if you wanted to buy a phone a game back then it was on a phone and it it was really complicated and it cost before the app store right

yeah it five it was5 pounds a game at least and then you had to pay5 pound to download it so we did all that so we we basically did a lot of different things is my point I'm making here and then 2008 most of our stuff initially was consumer and then 2008 we started to get into B2B with um pocket gaming. be we also launched France but I'm not going that um and that was because we saw lots of people in the industry we we were working with our clients and partners and we saw this amazing mobile games industry with loads of great people and lots of complexity in it but no one was really giving it any love in fact it was actively actively detested by a lot of the other industry so that's Pocket Gamer W against that smartphone era came everything changed um we did lots of stuff J mentioned he was working in the apps division the digital division he was we made apps for a lot of the leading games that came on to the uh the iPhone 2008 2000 was when the iPhone came in and Android and stuff and and the App Store uh launched and and that's when the whole world changed and it wasn't mobile phone operators anymore and it wasn't feature phones and we did

a ton of stuff we did a student we work with Samsung on this developer challenge we went around all universities getting developers to um student developers to make apps for their new platform a thing called B who's got a B phone still I've got know a what what I've got about 50 St in my attic bar the phones if you want one it's not the most functional so we did that and and then the the we did a lot of different things like jazz said he works the Pocket Gamer guys which were these really cool guys you know you've got in the more modern video game in old school video games you'd have play Tomb Raider and then You' get this guide of how to actually beat the game because it's so very difficult and we kind of created our own version of that for mobile apps so for for for for Kings I think it was Bubble Witch for for Clash of Clans for a few other leading games we made these partner apps which jaia uh completely ran and they were brilliant never made any money absolutely brilliant though they're really high quality we just we we wish weren't very good at people um we did L of stuff we did smart TV event

we did a thing called pocket pocket picks do you remember pocket picks which is our website about not pocket games um we bought one for apps which is one of our partners at the time and app spy we did the quality index which was basically um a Metacritic for mobile which still that is that still existing or is that is that gone now gone you've missed it it was great it's actually in the workings behind a lot of what the sites deliver on the front end isn't it so it's behind pocket gamer.com at the moment it's still there in the background but yeah and then we did this magazine called swipe which again ja was kind of heavily heavily involved in and that actually won an award it was an app games uh magazine as an app on iPad and it it was award-winning very difficult to make any money out but it was very so sadly that's our story our story basically in this period was great consumer site starting to do business to stuff and projects for people loads of different stuff and then we hit upon doing uh someone asked us or asked me said oh you knowbody mobile industry why

don't can you help us we want to do a party at GDC gdc's big huge industry event but there was nothing for mobile you know the mobile guys can you do it so I went all right and they said oh yeah we obviously we'll pay for it and it's like all right and then and then we got we basically got did this thing where we got to invite people who were our clients and friends and Industry people to come have a nice night getting drunk and having food and chatting and connecting and someone else was paying it was just genius it was just the best thing ever and that's when our event business was born cuz I went my little head went H there is a there is a thing that we can do that we're good at that people people like because we've would been quite and then that that turned into an absolute Litany of events there's Steve Jobs he wasn't there um and we did this is this was a student develop for challenge we did which was an event I did these mobile mixes all around the world literally we once we got an idea in our heads as you'll see again we just went with it and so this mobile mixer was like just a a cut it's a panel and a and a and drinks basically we did these I don't know we probably

got up to about seven or eight a year of doing these for a couple of years and all around the world um yeah as you can see the fins in the bottom left the most infused audience um and then and then and then that kind of evolved into into other things the mix sort into into parties and then um basically is then we get towards a perod we're going to talk about now which we'll talk about in a minute and and I'll I'll stop sharing a second which was going into the into into the events proper so I'm going to stop sharing because I don't think I need to show any more from it but but that's kind of there's loads more to show there's a load more parties and events we around but I'm not going to might just show a couple pictures CU look this is some other cool stuff we did look look at these events sorry I just love showing pictures look I don't know we did so many great parties and events around the world but and this is Pocket game of one so let's let's go back to that so why did we decide to do it I'll leave that on just for a second we basically I was going to and team as well going to events and we saw that um you know we'd already running our own mixers and parties and and other things

and we've been to people's conferences and they got quite big and people it's quite big business and we thought well we run the biggest B2B media in this space we're running these other events why can't we how hard can it be um and and we can do this and then we we so we we did and there we go so that's it 10 years later here we are no but but I think we did a lot of um and this was the first one yes I'll stop showing the pictures in a second but you can see there you know some of we'll talk about this in a minute it wasn't that different to to what we see today is there's a lot of elements that continue to seem the same there was networking talks booths all that sort of stuff and and and and side events so so yeah I'll stop me sharing for a second so yeah that that's from my side I've been to a lot of events I I I thought some particularly inspired me white knights was very good was they just started just before us and I went to one of their events in St Petersburg I thought this was good this quite fun as well it wasn't really dry there was an event called mobile games for that had been around for years and years and years that we used to go to it was was was

small but it was interesting and then casual connect was another event around the time develop and we just saw these events and thought there's not really a mobile focused one that's really good so so why can't we uh why can't we do that and and yeah and obviously as a company we as I said the reason I show those other things is we were trying lots of different ideas it wasn't like we just done one thing and never tried another thing um and it so it seemed sensible for my point of view at least to to give it a go so I'll stop talking now and the other people there tell me what they thought why why they thought was a terrible idea well I guess that we we all attended you know have attended conferences in the past and and so we kind of knew what other people were doing like you say you know but it was you know none of us had had an actually experience of actually building a conference so it was uh you know is a little bit of an unknown but one of the beauties of what we've created at St media is that we're not afraid to have a go at those things and uh you know where we don't know we ask people that do know um and so you know immediately you know you got to get in events people that that actually you know know how to look

after people and make sure that people get in safely and all those things but but ultimately it's the idea behind it isn't it you know so it's uh I think as Chris says you know nobody else is doing it for mobile and so for us going into that was like well this is this is a natural sort of progression if you like from from what we were doing before um it was just a little bit more expensive uh and a little bit more you know sort of more moving parts to it but um but yeah that's never frightened us tell tell us about the that first London event then so it's obviously built up out of the the whole mixer and party party stuff whereabouts was that first London event and and was it a huge Financial Risk were you really sticking your neck out getting getting it all together it was a terrible Financial Risk wasn't it it was it was it was it was absolutely frightening you know whereas you if anybody's sort of bought a tab in a bar you know they know how sometimes that can be a bit shocking but um imagine scaling that up and and then realizing well you actually have to pay for lights you have to pay for you know

someone to um to to clean the place you know afterwards you know all those things that you you wouldn't otherwise think about the costs were were frightening first of all weren't they you know and so we yeah obviously you know we've managed budgets before you know quite sizable budgets as well in the past but um yeah when you suddenly start putting these things together it's a it was a shock first all it was usually under somebody else was underwriting it and I think that was the big difference like often the bigger projects we've done someone else was picking up the check so we had to manage the budget and look after it we weren't afraid and and this I think it's fair to say that I particularly and jez might not agree I don't know had a slightly gung-ho approach to to to budgeting and projects that we could do and I just thought yeah we can do this and I we definitely make the money back and and I didn't really realize I think it took us quite a while maybe we'll come on to this to really understand the the economics of events like I don't I think we made profit in most of our events I don't I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we hadn't early on because I we just thought oh there's money coming in here and then oh there's another B Bill and there's another bill oh oh didn't we

have to pay for that and that's twice as much as it was quoted and yeah we were it's like a lot of things when people start if you kind of go into it really understanding all the difficulties and the challenges you probably don't do it or you certainly think twice I I I would say that we knew how to run parties and my thinking was we run editorial we run parties and mixers it's just same is it put it together and and and it is more than that to be fair what did you say J you're you're in the middle of it what's your crazy idea um so much say that I actually didn't get involved with the first one at all I thought we weren't ready for it um but then you know I'm the guy who does award-winning stuff doesn't make money so he probably don't want to listen to me uh and a good thing that uh that they didn't U because ultimately it was really impressive I I I remember going down uh expecting a much smaller event and obviously it's small by today's scales of of how kind of you know PGC has gone on to to uh to develop but uh it was uh do you know what it was it was a conference and I

think at the end I uh very uh very happily uh congratulated Chris on on on you know kind of plowing through with that because I I didn't think we were ready but actually like a lot of things are still media we kind you know everyone the team Rises up to the to the challenge and over the years we've always managed to overcome any kind of and they've always worked all my ideas have always works never never stood like mine so so that that that was it it the vinopolis which is kind of like underneath one of the archers What station vinopolis was it was like a wine museum it was like an attraction next you had like the London dungeons I think nearby the ship is it the cut sock or something like that big boat it's probably not theind yeah the golden the hind sorry that's yeah it's not and and there's loads of kind of like it's a bit of a touristy bit and it was a sort of it was a a tourist thing based around wine so it's kind of like a museum tourist thing but it had a lot of space cuz it was all it was a I presume it was

from the wine trade or the beer trade ear on and and so had all these Subterranean levels and we took quite a lot of it we didn't take all of it the first year we we I think we we had plans take more and more of it um yeah and it was a good V location wise it was great nice and Central it was a bit weird in that parts of it you were kind of walking past exhibits and it was kind of like you know it was it wasn't like in the main bit but you just kind of go between rooms and be like Oh whilst I'm on the route I can learn a little bit about the history of the Shard or something you know it was kind of it was it was a bit of an odd it wasn't like you're going in like it's customade you know going to Excel and it's all custom thing but but it was it had character and I think for me the the Char something that really set us up to think yeah that's that's it felt us it felt it was a bit fun a bit quirky we and we've always looked for venues to have a bit of character ever since one thing I say J was very kind giving me props I I I think I definitely did drive it and and we might have had some some initial Discord about the idea

but um but there's no way this is such a team effort like this is of all the things we do there's no way that any individual can can can pull this off like it it's it needs a lot of moving Parts like jez the whole we created a whole brand a whole brand that didn't exist before that looked like a professional as just look like professional conference look they've been around for years from nothing and and there's so many different executions and have to come into that from the every screen every stande badge there so much work that we we don't you know look at and and and you know and and and and the editorial team as well helping really hard to get speakers in we hadn't really done that on that level before that was harder I think than we thought um and one person who's not with the c anymore but I think we do have to shout out to from her team perspective is is elsabeth and she was she was kind of like The Missing Link in a way that's bad not that's not not like she was primitive she was the missing connection not miss she was the I don't know the

the fifth Beatle or whatever she she she needed um she'd been working in in um events in the north for years and her she kind of just came in and wasn't phased by it all and just knew the right question to ask and just she brought in her her a group as well we've we we we discovered them there's this this is very Enclave of of of Northern events lady Mafia that exists in the kind of Newcastle and leads areas it they bring them you know hard up there they're not easily swayed by things and and and she brought down her you know her her group and and yeah and she kind of you know listened to all our crazy ideas and and tried to facilitate them and and and pulled off most of them and I know and yeah without you know but it was a huge team effort the sales team as well at the time obviously they got some sponsorship in and and and and and you know to help promote tickets it was a real a real real Team game and yeah we didn't get the bucking bronco but still

waiting for that and tickets were sold and people showed up and and sufficient tickets were sold you were happy with the audience what what what sort of what sort of people were there yeah I mean I think I think I I can't remember the numbers now Dave I think you know the about 500 about 500 people there so keeping track of numb days we'd probably be a bit disappointed with 500 people at conference but for first conference when we've never done it before we were kind of Blown Away we were kind of working if we get 200 people will will we will we not lose our shirts here and and and yeah people just did engage and and and I think yeah it was it was because we but remember like that's is why I was showing that my little preview bit it's not like we'd come into this from nowhere we'd been the voice of an industry that didn't have a voice both consumer and B2B for the past eight or nine years we've been running events with all these people so there was you know the the the the people that made the games the people that that that did the monetization services and the advertising Services the toolmakers the investors it you know

the crosssection was kind of similar to how it is today it's what what we wanted to do always was to have a crosssection not to be just game developers and not to be just business but to bring everyone together and and I think we achieved that yeah you know as obviously you know the mic but that's yeah it was a good I mean Dave you came so you not what did you think of it no it was well absolutely as you said I wasn't entirely sure what to expect I came as a uh as an attendee and as a as a friend of the of the team I was working for a different publishing company at the time but I I I came along it felt fully formed if you told me that it was your fifth event when I turned up I wouldn't have been surprised it it felt incredibly established um and it was really busy I remember walking in and finding myself it had it also had a very friendly Vibe which I think is it's maintained throughout the 10 years you know I I walked in as a kind of relative newcomer who knew some people who were involved in it but wasn't um particularly immersed in the mobile gaming scene and was immediately embraced by some mobile Indie developers

and found myself having a drink with them and talking about what what they've done and that that that sort of welcoming games industry family Vibe felt like it was there straight out of the box and has kind of you know been there ever since that's exactly right Dave actually that you know the the word family is has been bounded around around quite a few times at our events you know that when people come you know there's obviously familiar faces people that sort of have come sort regularly to each of our events uh and they they do you know after a while sort of start to feel like family you know and and equally they refer to us as family and they deal with all the events team you know uh as such you know with the respect that obviously they deserve you know and and it's yeah it's got a real good vibe like you say Dave you know yeah and I think that was there right from right from the start um and uh you mentioned about the fact that it was at vopos that was I mean it was an interesting venue I remember being being kind of you know it was it was it had character and I don't know whether this was deliberate but when the event grew

you moved to the brewery was there a deliberate attempt to find booze related venues I mean it's just just to prove that we could do something in a brewery yeah we did it was but that was only because they shut it the only reason we left monopolis is because it got it got closed down and turned into into Flats we have had a bit of a record of of helping helping gtif forication I believe it's known as we've had venues where we kind of go and they sort CL but yeah so that so that that we we we had space to grow there for a few years and we kind of thought that was going to be our home because we just you know once you find a venue that kind of works you know there's always maybe better ones out there but you just it's one less thing to have to worry about and learn about each time and um so yeah we' have stayed there if we could but yeah I think we did two years though did we do two years yeah and then um and then and then we had to move because they moved it well I want to say one of the couple things we did because I was looking through this I was looking at your question as I was thinking about it and I'd forgotten some of the stuff we did like some of the stuff we do is still

the same now we had talks we had panels but we were really kind of try hard trying to make us fun and different or whatever and we had a few things I I remember now we had we had this thing called the um uh we had the indie rock stars which was like a side panel we were just sitting there like on a you know quiz shell of Buzzcocks kind of cross questioning people on their talk or their panel in one of the tracks and it was it was the idea I kind of still stand with something in it but in fact I don't think it worked particularly well because it's like someone's doing a talk and then someone interjects at the end and goes I'm not sure about that and it was It was kind of it wasn't like the whole day but it was like a couple of hours was it like kind of the the strictly judges is that how it was for they it was a bit like that I think I think it was some pitching in it as well but it was definitely just some panels and talks and that that was one idea then we had the open mic stage do you remember that we had like I think we had four three stages and one of them maybe the fourth stage was open mic which is like an auditorium where people could just there was like a sort of a board where you can just write you know like a

sort of Blackboard type fil outside right down you know a space and you come and do a talk and there were some people just sat there because it was like a chill out area and and uh well I don't think we did that again I think Oscar was probably the most enthusiastic about that he was talking about bit and then um didn't you do something with boxing gloves was there a boxing glove thing I saw no that was that was that was the um what's that called battle panels that's that's something we done our mixers we did these battle panels where it was like is is it should it be Freeman or should it be pre prum games and you'd have a panel of two or three on each side wearing boxing gloves and I put these funny pictures of them together with M their face and head of boxers with these CEOs these game companies but that's what we was did they thought it was quite funny and then we'd have this that would be like the theme of the night and you'd and then people would would write write who won the round and and stuff it was a really cool thing we which we which you should bring back at some point but it it was fine when it was an event on its own but then it's another it's a lot of organization for just a a side bit the other thing we did which I I'd forgotten about and again I was looking at this my notes for it is we did I spent loads of time

with probably I drove Els mad I know I did queuing up warom music for every speaker so I was going through on the main stage at least I was going through going okay oh it's a global thing everyone wants to rule the world or something I was just going through try to pick themed music tracks that would they could use for the like the five seconds coming on and it's like we've never done that again we we only occasionally even use warcom music now but it was but it was just yeah I don't know it was we were trying to do different stuff and the final thing I remember we did is we were trying to do experiences London experiences like one time we had a bus that took you to the party and then and this one year I think it was the first year mightbe the second but we we we got these Italian Job mini tour of London so the idea is you get you know few people sitting and you drive around these three minis through the Streets of London sounds brilliant right if you watch your tallenge job that' be fun if you apply that with any sort of thought at all to the Streets of London on an average day basically what is a slow motion being

suting traffic moving about three miles Shing along in a vehicle that's very low down so you can't actually see anything either so they were all they were all late for their meetings as well you know yeah they were all late because obviously it's supposed to take half an hour and it took him about an hour to get back it was just oh sorry anyway but we yeah I that first one we tried a lot of stuff and some a lot of it we kept and some of it we didn't but uh but yeah I'm in about by when connects went International the first time you know that must have been organizing it in London seems hard enough but taking that to to to to the global Arena what what was the first International game Helsinki was Helsinki and actually and I will sharen it lby I'll speak but that was actually planned we almost launched in Helsinki before London because I was out there talking to people that run event called slush which is a huge um investor event in in um Helsinki because we've been Helsinki is like our second it's our spiritual second home for the company we've been going there a lot

we've got a lot of Partners there and and the mobile games industry was huge in fin was supercell roio n games all stuff and anyway we've been talking to them about running event and I said I wanted to run run event and this guy called Peter vacker who was the Mighty Eagle of roio and also was involved in setting up slush and mobile Mondays he's a bit of a big Ideas guy and he was going oh yeah we should do it we should do it slush wants to have these other events as part of slush's umbrella and you could bring connection you can do all the game stuff and we spent probably about a month going back and forth trying to trying to sort it out and and it didn't quite come in the end but that was already in our head so then when the first one had gone well it was right okay how can we do the when do we do the Helsinki one we went back and we we recognized we can make money and we the model worked so let's let's go and do it in HS well before that though Chris we actually said that we were only going to do one for the first year didn't we we said yeah yeah we did don't remember I think from the starting year and then working out

you're GNA do twice as many events as you think that's sound before we even went into into London um we you know like exactly like you say you know we we'd ruled hell syy out because uh because it you know why would you do your first event you know outside of the country that you're all in you know surely it's going to be easier to do it in London but actually as we got nearer and nearer to London it was yeah it was like actually we could scale this up and we can do this pretty much anywhere and so why not do Helsinki so I think we'd maybe the contract wasn't necessarily signed but we were certainly you know we'd certainly kind of um penciled it in you know into the diary as happening and and of course that was that was a surprise because we only said we were gonna do one that year and then we did two and then we jump from two to wherever we are now yeah seven seven I mean something like that this year I mean I have to say one of the things that I always found like extremely inspiring about steel media and one of the things that attracted me to to come work for the company is how

International it thinks actually you know for for a small company that started with with um the media in this in this Niche at the time kind of nich Bas based headquartered in B although with with uh you know employees and and clients and and contractors everywhere within a few years was thinking really internationally in a way that even some big companies don't don't think about you know I mean looking to Asia and looking to the Middle East and you know and and and and steel Meers embraced all these these areas I mean hasn't run a um a PG connect in Latin America yet but certainly has has been over there and visited other conferences there you know with events in America North America and that was apparent really early on I mean I you know I I I remember I I wasn't able to attend myself and I I don't know how they went but I know you ran events in in India India in Bangalore quite early on right in about 2015 and and and about that but also you know by 2015 you were doing events in San Francisco and so and I and I and I think you can even see really big media companies staying within a

very kind of quite tight Zone really and and steel media's always even right right after that first year when it was London and Helsinki immediately looked to to support other territories around the world and I think that's that's very impressive and it still still excites me but again I I would point now again like that's you know that's really nice to hear that and I know people we definitely have a bigger Halo than we are as a business people think we're some huge business maybe 50 people now which is probably the biggest i' been but we've never been that big but I think we always the point about the company and and the industry has always been a global industry and actually most of our partners our bigger Partners came from overseas I've been going to to to States a lot I've been going to China a lot actually from about 2008 onwards uh we had big partner out there we work with quite a lot of few partners and the Chinese games industry was like really growing really quick and and and and likewise we had advertisers in in in Korea and Asia and and obviously we're going we're going to Finland so actually most of our partners and revenues um were coming from overseas anyway it's

not like we ever sat here as a you know we weren't like a biscuit manufacturer and we sold it to you know to the local we we didn't if you look at our kind of our business as a whole the UK part of it putting aside these days now London's tickets and stuff UK is not actually a huge huge we're kind of an exporter there you go government we're an exporter rather than an importer I think that means because you most of our revenues come from overseas so we were used to traveling it wasn't and we've been doing these mixers everywhere like when we did the mixes we were constantly you went to everywhere you know say and and just wherever someone wanted goes oh I want to run an event for the mobile industry in blah can you do it yeah all right um which is my standard response and then and and yeah and and and so it's no I don't think it felt as as as scary I mean maybe it did internally I don't remember being like the idea of being in another country being daunting I think the idea of will we get enough sponsorship and will we get enough people coming and when's the right time to do it was the kind of the fear and not not or could we

do this it just I didn't ever really feel it was a a challenge I don't know maybe maybe we did have lots of conversations and I just blanked them out don't know no because I think I think the team was was prepared to you know I think if you if if you kind of alluded to that Dave if you can run an event in London you can run an event anywhere really I mean the mechanics of it are the same I guess a little bit more complicated obviously with time zones and and and you're having to deal remotely but I think one of the key things for me of of that period traumatic as it was at times uh but in a good way is it was just how how reactive and how tight the team was and so actually I think from from from an outside perspective I can imagine people think this there was this huge team and probably still is this huge team you know involved in in in these events and actually when you break it down the number of people delivering that event was was was astoundingly small uh but that's because everyone did their you know play their part uh very well and very efficiently and so we run these

things really really tightly uh and of course you know you're going to have hiccups from supplies or or venues or whatever but you kind of you everything you know as I kind of mentioned ear everything that came along we we we overcome overcame rather um so the idea of going to India or or Hong Kong or or you know uh elsewhere it kind of it just it's just another event somewhere else but the the mechanic and the approach is the same I think the interesting thing like jez said and we were only going to do one I don't recall that but but let's assume it but then the thing that I don't know how I managed to get away with is like we went from like one event having never done a conference before to to doing a second the same year and then the next year I was looking at this I forgot it was the next year we did four yep we went from literally first event year one January you know September the way our financial years worked actually it was different from Financial year but anyway for calendar year was the same one and then the second year we did

London again Bangalore San Francisco and Helsinki so we we done it it got to from just two one event to to year two a quarterly event effectively so so far all we've heard is that that it was a great success and it was dead easy and and everything just went went upwards the wheels must have fallen off at some point and you must have been scratching your head saying what Earth have I done have we got any any what was what was the first disaster and and was it ever averted or did you drive headlong into it so many disasters thing is yeah when you're working on events there's always kind of minor things that go on behind the scenes that that that you need to solve so there you're always sort of constantly overcoming challenges of course correctly in ter in terms of things that have kind of gone wildly AR I mean a few things a few things sping to mind and obviously might have to change the names to protect the innocent but um there's a few before I joined because I think it might have been the year that I joined but I joined just too late to attend Bangalore right did I hear that you straight in there did I

hear that you had to host the Expedition area outside in the Indian heat did that is that a thing that happened because I that was a that was sort of was passed into steel media Legend so many stories with Bangalore just so many it was just it was just the gift that keeps on giving for this segment yeah it was amazing we we we did we worked with a partner uh Reliance games Reliance are massive campy ninja obviously one a big with the games partner they literally come to me and gone oh we want to you know we we we we loved your event we'd like to do something in India can you do it with us and we said yeah why not um and so the event you know in the end well but we turned up and we know what to expect i' never been to India before it's it was kind of hot and different and and but it was it was in a luxury hotel so it was okay and then we're kind of doing our usual thing before the event this is be our fourth event so veterans now and and we're kind of going and we've got our bits and we're getting ready for prepping and we we're going so where's the you know where's where's it all going to be where's the index oh yeah it's going to be in here and we're

going to do the Expo and we're going okay so when when you going to put that oh yeah yeah don't worry yeah yeah yeah yeah don't worry don't worry and and and it kind of got to about I want to say about 7 or 8 P.M the night before the event was due to start and there was virtually nothing there was virtually no signage there was no kind of Expo we had a few things we' done ready but it was just like they show the are is and there nice hes and I was going okay are you sure this is going to happen because like we're like I don't know how it works here but this seems to me like worrying and then we all kind of went well whatever we we had a a reception thing and went to which went nice we went to bed and then came in the next morning and it's just all done it's like magic elves it's like you know it's like Fair story where they just had the boot maker coming they've just done it all and if you look quite closely you'd see that you know it looked beautiful but if you looked a bit too close you could see it was kind of on the back of Roads signs and stuff it was been very kind of I don't know that's just how it's you know they've repurposed vinyls to to to

which fair enough but it looked great um apart from the fact that the Expo was outside in the courtyard and and we were like right okay so is that no this is no no no this is how it works this is how it works are you sure yeah the sponsors expect this they're fine and we brought our own sponsors they had their sponsors and we were our sponsors and we're like going okay but it's pretty hot outside goes oh yeah you've got fans and had these little it's like one of those little fans you kind of buy a Fairground that just kind of go dies after 30 the fans are and and you go okay and bizarrely enough the Expo area wasn't very populated because you had a choice of being in in air conditioned halls and TS and and coffee areas or outside in the baking heat uh cuz it when was it what was the date it was like May or June or something wasn't it uh yeah of May I think or maybe in April but yeah around about then and we was like okay and we we actually had to physically

bring a couple of our sponsor spaces inside like just move some of their bits because they were like kicking off and and rightly so to be fair the best thing about the story just to conclude is year two we're going back different hotel but same sort of setup we we're a bit less stressed about things you know being done last minute because we we've got it now but we're we're very clear we could not be more clear the expo's definitely be that ho inside you yeah yeah yeah yeah yes yes yes yes yes yes know the whole shaking heads both ways no yeah yeah yeah yeah definitely give yeah yeah absolutely okay fine go to bed next they come out outside again just outside and you're like what and obviously then we the problem for us is we then you know we have sponsors and you know and sponsors they pay they they they they have demands and most of the time they're you know rly reasonable sometimes not but most of the time they are but you you're kind of having to go around smiling and nodding going yeah you're right you shouldn't be out here but I'm not sure what to say at

this point and uh but yeah that was our that was our last year in in Bangalore for the moment um but uh yeah that was a there plenty more stories about Bangalore but but yeah I don't I don't know you got any CH I I I think it's like that is that scene in Shakespeare in Love where the guy the producer guy is always going I don't know why it just works but it does it's a mystery it's kind of like that everything's a constant state of mini crisis that no one that comes to EV will really understand but you're kind of going so I mean my my take has always been if you're enjoying the event you're not doing it right um because there's there's always there's always a battle to fight somewhere along the lines but you know as I said I can't actually you know Daniel you asked about disasters I can't think of any frankly I I can think of of of attendances that weren't perhaps as high as we'd hoped in the earlier days I can think of uh you know arguments with venues over over kind of uh post event costs and and and bills and so on and obviously along the way

there would have been well there were a few kind of uh hiccups to to to get over but that's you know as Dave says that's that's just events that's kind of every every every week has its own challenge um I can't think of of a PGC where the team didn't deliver you know and and and yes I think some of the locations perhaps didn't go down as as as well with some sponsor for for some of the reasons that uh you know that Chris mentioned um but I can't I can't genuinely think of of an event that we didn't come away with with more positives than than negatives and in fact very few negatives over the years absolutely I don't know what guys have been doing since I've left now you make money you don't win Awards but you make money the um to the point there is something I can think of in our our Hong Kong event that's just worth worth saying but all these things you're right completely we we we battled through but it's it's funny you were

saying that about events all events have stuff in the background that goes wrong you know the infamous fire Festival which of course there's been number of documentaries about because it it felt that wasn't one of ours wasn't one of ours it wasn't one of but there's an interesting point in that documentary where um you could see as the documentary unfolds all these things going wrong with the island that they're going out to and the venue and the setup and the food and someone in the one of the interviewer asks well why didn't you see this coming and the the the logistics person says but yeah but all events feel this bad and that's kind of true unfortunately in the run up to every event there's always kind of this sort of rolling things you've got to you've you've got to solve the thing I was going to say is out in in Hong Kong we did have another another very hot territory um a uh a beautiful kind of purpose-built Center that we we were running a conference conference in alongside an orts tournament that was there and a and very big blockchain presence as well and then this was in the summer so in the summer a very very humid um environment in Hong Kong and the air conditioning broke in the whole venue it went down um which was you know an unexpected challenge it may made the

climate suddenly collapses on you um bless them now our local our local hosts uh bought everyone ice cream I remember which smooth the if I remember the correctly how they dealt with the problem they came around smiling with buckets of ice cream which which actually did surprisingly turns out that exactly what you need to get through an hour of no was the government agency I mean they were very good nice that that was like Hong Kong's main government agency I I think at one point the the the CEO time was carry lamb I think it was was going to come she did the end but that was that was that was that was a nice that was what that their proper complex it wasn't like uh yeah but yeah the AV went off I've got one other thing I've got to share which is is g to not be it's going to celebrate someone else in our team and this was a um these things happen all the time but this is particularly bad AV experience in in London I think it was three years ago one of our bigger shows um and we just had to use this new and very expensive AV company and and they're a bit behind setting up because they were new this year blah blah blah but they had loads of people around it it was and seem to be going okay day of the event for some

reason they don't use any of the people it appears that were actually setting up the the the the event and just use a whole new crew and the guy on my stage and I tend to open the thing with a little talk and it was it was about 10 15 minut before to start the guy on my stage was sat down at his AB desk going how does this work then and literally he he didn't seem to know how to use a computer never and it was like obviously the company he kid it wasn't stuff we providing him with he's like I'm not really used to doing this and it got to the point he was going so what's a PDF then and like I'm stood behind him going we've got probably about eight minutes now to this thing's got kick off we've got quite a packed schedule I can't really push it back and I'm sitting there going oh I'm gonna kill you and the guy was going right and then Katherine who's one of our events team Katherine absolute star she is kind of like this zenik constant piece is kind of still point in in a turning world and she just came across him let me me show you so what you do is you take the mouse click that and you move that to there is that

all right and and I was just going how can you be so calm I there's another world I was like but yeah but that's the sort of stuff AV AV is one of those things that you just look at the bill at the end and go what sorry I don't want to I don't want to buy all the TVs I don't want to buy the lighting I'm just G to rent it for two days it's it's always one of the biggest costs and and it when it works it's great and when it doesn't you just go oh you've had so much time and so much money to do this why is this not working and we got stiff in Bangalore that's the one thing I want to say on pupp never never never got paid by Reliance so if they if they want to pay that second check ever then they can do because they didn't um that was that was one of two events we I don't think if we lost money but we didn't make much there of anything the only event we ever lost money was in Vancouver which was a which a beautiful venue and great City and everything we just didn't quite work um for us Vancouver was bittersweet wasn't it like you say it was it was absolutely fantastic then you you know if anybody gets a chance to go to Vancouver do it but clearly you know our attendees

didn't want to go to Vancouver that day it seemed no they wanted us they wanted us to come to Vancouver or the local Vancouver they just didn't want to come and support the event that they wanted us to come to it's like okay well that's why you've not got an event so uh there you go shout outs to Vancouver and which I do love my sister lives out there and to and to Bangalore let's talk best event best event ever and why you know is it just just virtue of selling the place out and everyone turning up or was there any kind of defining moments where you thought yes this is this is the moment that we've been working towards I think we've done some I mean all events have their highlights I mean you're absolutely right the last London events grown hugely year on year and so and seeing there so many people in one place having a great time is always gratifying and it was so this year was was you know you'd have you'd be hard pushed not to look at the London event from 2023 and think that was incredible but there are certain things that that running this conference has gives you an opportunity to do that you might not otherwise for instance we're going to be back in Jordan again in um November 2023

and we've been running that conference for a few years and that's in one of the most historic and beautiful parts of the world and Pocket Gamer connects has given International uh delegates including us the chance to go to Petra which is on most people's bucket list you know the the the huge desert structure that's in Indiana Jones for instance and and and I think the first time we ran an event there uh we had a great local partner in um the the G Jordan gaming lab and the kfd out there and so on so we we had you know help on the ground but um that that was interesting running an event and then just so close to the event being out in the desert and and going to see like some incredible things that that for me was a oh wow this is really open you know give us an opportunity to do something unusual what about you J what's your favorite I've missed a few I don't know if you've noticed I haven't been there um I I think um well actually because I was there U this year um I can't obviously speak speak for the events I haven't been to but I thought London this year was was was spectacular

everything worked as far as I could tell I mean I wasn't in the entire you know I spent most of the time in the downstair downstairs track rooms but everyone on stage that I kind of saw from compares to to speakers you kind just seem to deliver uh and everything seemed to work uh I'm not priv to to some of the hiccups behind the scenes these days but from from the perspective of someone attending uh and and you know still involved obviously photographing the thing I just thought every every element seemed to work uh and of course was was hugely attended as well you know people just seem to be having a really good time and really enjoying uh and and yeah it seemed well structured uh content seemed to flow and everyone did their job yeah I think I think that's that's totally fair I mean I asking to pick you know which are your favorite shows these are all our babies we've all all of these events gets a lot of love and attention and late nights and stress poured into them so you know I you know I wouldn't like to choose between I only have one kid so it's quite easy to choose that way but but um I I think the

first one for me stood out because we' just done it and and like I would never I'm very I seem to have a bit of a gun attitude and think of course we be do it but when we'd actually done it like getting close to it there was some nerves so get actually delivering and people saying to us well you're going to build the next games comp here and things like that and just been really the overall positive was I found that really kind of it really sort of hit home really touched me got me in the fields as they say um but you know I get excited by new venues when we first went to San Francisco or Bangalore or Hong Kong or vancuver Seattle Toronto Jordan Dubai this year always a bit of excitement there and a bit of fear as well that a new one I think probably London though yeah L between London and Helsinki because they're the original ones and and the vibe there you're always ass sure of a decent turnout like PGC London is just a fixture we're not as big as GDC or or Gamescom but we are a genuine International fixture for a lot of people now and you know the start of year I'm in London and and so once

you get the attendance and and the expectation all different companies that does a lot of work for you as well but I think we because we're staying in the same venue and we keep a lot of the we're constantly trying to make sure we keep a balance and we make sure there a good balance it's not all just venders we got a balance between the people that make the great tools and the services and the people actually make the games we also try to make more game makers than than anything else I I think the vibe still feels the same and that's probably most gratifying that like J said last last year it's still being being our biggest ever event but still having that same Vibe there's always a moment in the event sometimes at the party sometimes during the day where I'll get a I'll just kind of happen on a conversation or just get a sense of something where people are just accidentally connecting and and me I'm haven't seen for AG I've got got this opportunity and you can just see there's like a a new thing is forming there a new deal or opportunity and and everyone's just kind of happy and there's this kind of the games industry family thing is is is something I overuse but it is that's when I know we've got it right and I I think we get that right more often than not in in in in most of in probably all of our events

but certainly in in London it's it's always been present there for us even the pre the pre-co one was actually a high in some ways wasn't the biggest was last year but that was brilliant I remember the time thinking this is great like 2019 2020 what this was like God this is just how this year is gonna be so exciting so big we got wow look at this and then obviously you know thing the world changed and and it wasn't there wasn't we had no did yeah you when that was happening exactly like you say you know suddenly suddenly put in place in front of us that 2020 was going to be brilliant because you know we had no inking what was about to happen you know and all the plans were in place for 2020 you know you know everything looked like it was going in the right direction yeah yeah we were going out to we're gonna go to a I I was working on plans to start launching kind of APAC more APAC activities we all one in Hong Kong we do that again talking to people in Korea Japan southeast Asia about opportunities to do events there you know obviously that was you know that all got sh pretty quickly we were on the C of doing an event in Seattle that year weren't we I

mean I think the shutdown came in what March 2020 and I think we were we would have we would have been running an event at the start of May in America it started in February though because I was I was traveling I was in helsink for the ngas international games Awards judging and checking some venue stuff and partners and then I was in Barcelona my family out as well and for M mobile Congress and just going to be there but then mobile Congress didn't happen and then I I just after that we we had all books go to Jordan to look at a new venue um and then I was go to GDC and I did go to Jordan with I think was with Sally it was dead with Sally and while we were there just like everything stopped just like it was already ratcheting down but every it just kind of just stopped GDC was gone and and that's actually when we sat I we we we were already talking about could we do a small digital thing and literally it was really kind of came together that probably that week it's like yeah let's just do it we can do a digital PGC digital how hard can it be easy and and and we came up that idea as a proper

idea it came to really quickly early March April the 6 the first one was out and you know we did yeah we we we we turned around did the I'm not saying the first one was excellent there was a lot of problems with it but but we learned from that and then moved forward but like we turned into this digital event company overnight when everyone else is panicking and laying people off and like oh events all over for events we kind of managed to become a digal events business and the premere games we only won we did like 10 I think in the next next over the we we did 10 I think and including a new event we ran Beyond games we ran at digital only in I think May 21 yeah I think we were actually hiring people at the time everybody else was furing lay people off we actually needed more res because we yeah we just we kind of yeah and I I think that the point about that is not to it was a very tough time for everybody obviously on all sorts of levels and but it was you still needed to connect the industry the the function we performing was still needed and in a way it kind of under underlined exactly how why what we do in

other events and media do is important because that that kind of uh you know the sandwich or the the jelly or the but I don't know whatever the bit the glue the glue between the bricks I don't know think of a better analogy that that that's needed you people need to to have those business needs to continue you know you can't just stop and the games industry actually you know as we know now had a a bit of a bump of time during that period but but people still need to get deals done and and talk about how they could you know put new tools and and and advertising techniques in their game and we kind of facilitated that happening and um yeah I I'm so I guess talking about high points in a way I'm kind of proudest of that that we just always kept it going and that's the symbol of the company as a whole we just keep you know we have adversity everybody but we've kind of managed to Pivot and and roll with the punches and and drive it forward so sorry that was very long answer one last thing just to wrap it up because I'm aware we bring a short of time plans for the future what's what's

next what what do you want to do that you haven't done already APAC we we did this year we've done Mina we've been Bing uh we we now we've run three events we're probably the biggest games industry event company in Mina now and Dubai Saudi and and Jordan and yeah the next thing for for for me at least is is to look look forward to um to to to opportunities in in in Asia again where which we had planned doing before the before the the coid hit because I think that's again a market where we have clients and partners and there's a very exciting stuff happening southeast Asia especially so I'm actually going to Singapore next week um to sort part of that to start thinking it might not be next year it might take us a 12 months to get something in place but um definitely will it definitely won't be next year Lads I guess I guess before then we're we're looking at San Francisco isn't it which is is sort of you know where we not where we started but certainly was one of the earlier locations that we

sort of moved away from you know in recent years but actually going back to San Francisco in in um 2015 did March have to remind myself yeah going in March is uh yeah it's it's very exciting you know just to go back there see how it's changed you know see see if we've still got the support um that we think we should have yeah yes is going to be very exciting and we're at uh uh new venue for that as well we the hiberia hotel which which looks amazing a lot of character it's an old Bank isn't it so a vault in there and stuff so in event of Co again we just locked the door bad the air flow everything but um yeah no we've got a whole next year we're actually about to announce we've got London which we announced we'll be announcing San Francisco very shortly uh probably in this video and then we'll be back in Dubai in May and and and got Helsinki locked in September and then we're just working out what we're going to do we've got a few slots we're just thinking what we do um with events around that but yeah we might not do seven next year well that might we'll see but I mean

that's that's the thing is who knows if you want to grow a business like ours you have to either do more events or the events you've got you've got to grow as well and I think one of the things we're looking forward to with London is uh is growing the size of that I mean you know since it's launched in 2014 we're now five times the size in London that we were there maybe made a little bit more than that maybe looking to be six so I think the question is you know how how do we take that and make it 10 times what it was when it when it started and um you know we're sort of growing towards that so this year in London we've got a little bit more space right right chz we've got a couple of mares outside to to accommodate people yeah yeah I mean even even that venue itself it's you know sometimes it felt like uh there was sort of squeezing points you know throughout the venue but going back to what we originally saying is just bringing people together bringing that CEO to that you know alongside that Indie Dev and being able to make those almost accidental meetings you know um is is a beauty of what we kind of designed within our venues isn't it you know in terms of you know how we sort of move people around the venue you know it

kind of facilitates that so it's yeah it's yeah hopefully we we've got a little bit more space there but um but the fact that everybody's sat in the same room is is a good thing yeah I think you're right jez and I don't think we're there are big venues like Excel available but but I think it's very difficult to kind of maintain the sort of Industry family togetherness in these big cous you know aircraft hanger type places so we we're very selective about venues when we you know they probably are a bit quirkier like the the venue we have in in Helsinki one has satar is is kind of similar to the Brewer in many ways one we we also used is is an old factory we always look for something that's a bit it's kind of talking point in itself so yeah and before that actually so next year we've got first half planned and before that of course we've still got Jordan um coming up in chance to go to see one of the wonders of the world in Petra um that's coming up in in a about a month's time and then we will be in Saudi Arabia month after for our leader Summit which is a sea level event we launched last year which

is um went very well so we can do that again um so yeah amazing stuff I I I I look on with with with all congratulations fellas for for 10 years he his for he for 10 more 10 more years thank you let's call it a day thank you my cake where's the cake you PR the cake I'll see I'll see what I can magic up later Dave jez Chris thank you so much for this highly Illuminating and all the best for the future thanks Danel thanks [Music] guys