Build Your Own Fan Club: How to Use Your Email List

[Music] all right good afternoon everybody one quick reminder turn off your phone and then listen to me and then turn your phone back on and rape me I don't make the rules I just follow him that's all I do okay so this is my talk I'm just gonna call it email lists that's what I wanted to call it but I knew nobody would want to show up so thank you so much for attending this talk that sounds so boring so I really commend all of you for showing up I swear I love this stuff it's really fun I hope you like it just as much as I do okay so I'm going to start the story Halloween 1989 that's me I'm nine years old my mom made my tunic and I'm linked if you didn't guess and my dad made my shield and my boomerang I was a total Nintendo kid growing up like I was almost a brand representative and my Bible was a Nintendo Power and this is actually my my original Nintendo power the one like I would just like pour a big old bowl of cereal in the morning and then just like spread that that magazine open employment Nintendo all

day and let me tell you I loved it it inspired my early artistic abilities like I actually like notice that I made her arm jet out it was an artistic interpretation of Samus it wasn't a straight-up copy but I grew up and I became a UX designer and I like to study how people use technology what they find interesting about it what they don't like about it I also make my own games my latest one is a top left one one screen platformer it's a platformer that takes place on one screen I also write about marketing I tell you how to market a game on my website how to market a game I try to keep things super dead-simple guys okay so I try to fit it all down to 25 minutes they only gave me 25 minutes for their talk I couldn't do it so you can get the director's cut of these slides at GDC how to market the game.com slash do you see 2019 all the slides are up there even more and you also get a free book if you go there I'm serious we'll get my free book okay but now that I know all about marketing and Technology and how to make a game it

occurs to me that Nintendo Power is just a giant advertisement targeting like the six-year-old two 16 year old demographic and I was marketed to my whole life with this book and you might say like god this guy said that life is a lie and no it wasn't it was like one of the best times of my life and what I want to show you today is how to like the reason that it was so good was they weren't always marketing to you they were along for the ride like they enjoyed this stuff as much as I did like they loved video games just as much as I did and so what I want to teach you today is how to market your game so that a nine-year-old would want to draw it and like that's what I'm here for and you can't distribute magazines financially viable e anymore but the next best thing is email marketing and I'm going to tell you today how that's gonna work but before I can get to the fun stuff I guess start with the boring stuff which is funnels I love post mortems I read them all the time this is a failed post mortem that was on Reddit and the guy on the on

reddit said this is a commenter for this post mortem he said I thought they quietly cancelled the project until I saw it on Steam the week it released and you're thinking up and apocalypse there it is in the apocalypse but it's not this is an age-old problem that we've been facing for hundreds of years and this man Elias st. Elmo Lewis wrote about this problem and how to solve it like way before television or the internet radio all of that his theories really influenced marketing today and his most important contribution is this it's called the sales funnel and the thing about the sales funnel is if you if you follow nothing I say to date you have to learn this this is the most important thing you can learn because it's kind of like gravity or evolution even if you don't believe in you are affected by this thing so basically what a sales funnel is is it just marks it's a mental model of how people interface with your product as they get down the funnel as they learn about it so it goes

from awareness to interest to desire to finally taking action which is just buying your game and I'm gonna kind of chart the progression of somebody's face using this other magazine from my childhood which was game pro mag they use these characters to write people and the reason it's called a funnel is when somebody finds out about you it's like they're being poured onto the top of the funnel and they could have trickled down to the bottom and so I'm gonna just the easiest way to explain is actually just a story so let's pretend this whole room we're all together this is about the team size of making a modern art yes I believe so we're all making an RTS together and we are making this art kiss for this person a she's just somebody out there who doesn't know we exist but she likes her TS it she played them in her childhood and everything and put luckily we got caught up by Kotaku and they like glowing preview of our game we haven't released it yet and she reads could talk to everyday and she sees it and so she becomes aware of our game and she reads the article and clicks the link that provided to our website where she reads

like an FAQ and she learns about that game she realized this is an RTS it's just what I like this is interesting so she's now in the interest phase she finds out on our FAQ that we have a twitch stream we stream like three times a week on money and we like talked about GPS and what the units and the strategies and the maps and she learns all about it she watches it all the time and she desires it now she like thinks about this game like on her brakes on her commute she like this is my game I desire I want this game and then on the last day before we go live we do like a 24 hour stream athon like all of us buy matching suits and we're like doing something cool on the stream and we like every half an hour say go buy the game go buy the game and because she knew us she learned who we are and she liked us she wouldn't bought it like right away day one that's it checkpoint like we had something the reason this worked so well was we had something for her at every level of the funnel like we had a little piece of marketing everywhere like we

got we got her in the top with PR then we peaked our interest with our FAQ we use twitch to heighten the desire of the game and then we had a launch stream to do the call to action to say goodbye it now the most important thing is everybody talks about like visibility seeing somebody on Steam and then going buy the game right away doesn't happen like nobody just sees it and buys it it's like the only time that happens is gum at the checkout aisle and that thing cost a dollar and it's covered in sugar it's the only time somebody sees something and then buys it exposure does not equal sales and that's exactly what happened here with this reddit commoner on that failed post mortem basically they they knew about it they heard about the game and they followed it a little bit but then the developers dropped off and they didn't keep contact and so they fellip the this person just lost interest and never bought the game and why you need to think in funnels it's like this week you are going to be like barded with so much information there's no way you could do it all so what you

should do is you should classify this information about where it lives on the funnel like oh this is definitely a top of the funnel type of advice or this is bottom of the funnel advice it helps you just kind of like organize your marketing schemes so you know we all know streamers and tweet a lot for the top that's for that's perfect top of the funnel stuff but what goes in the bottom here like what's the best way to do these bottom three funnel activities what am I actually going to show you is that email actually really fits this very well to do these bottom of three so let's get into the fun stuff this is where I like this is this is the good stuff okay let's go all right first off if you guys are like streaming out the door like this is not spam I'm not saying we all become spammers or something spam is totally different this is from Wikipedia spam is unsolicited where they just like scrape your email address off a website and then they like send you tons of emails and then hopefully one person will accidentally give away their bank account and then we steal their money that's spam that is not what we're suggesting here it's also not emailing the press so a lot of people confuse that like yes if you market to the press using you know

that's just marketing but it's not this is something totally different on this is where people regular fans will join your mailing list and it's all about consent they choose to give you their email address and you contact them and then if they ever don't like your message they can unsubscribe and you just never ever ever contact them again again it's all about permission sometimes it's called permission marketing because they opt in to your message and typically it's run on stuff like mail jam convertkit these these softwares are your your typical mailing list providers and you might say okay well I use Twitter I doing pretty much the same thing with Twitter and so here's here's four reasons why you know so totally awesome and much better than social media number one is you are not dependent on a big corporation to talk to your followers 25 years ago these were the hottest websites from talking to your fans and if you build up a huge follow on here you lost all your money and all that effort to build up a fanbase and if

you think like Facebook and Twitter are huge now and they're indestructible they are highly toxic and they have a very rough user base and you your following could turn out to be turned off by those con those controversial messages that are being put out there and it's happening today like tumblr just changed the way they they censor images and the way they allow people to post stuff people are fleeing tumblr and just today I actually just added this slide myspace just deleted twelve years of music oops through some diet database migration what a dumpster fire of all everybody's music that they posted on myspace basically don't let corporations control your fanbase you should do that and you can do that through email marketing number two is and this is counterintuitive social media actually isn't good at getting your fans to act okay so a marketing research firm surveyed a whole bunch of different companies and how their outreach did and they averaged all their different communications by based on response rates and the way this graph works is if

they if you theoretically had 2,000 followers on Twitter 2,000 Facebook followers 2,000 emails followers and you just sent a message how many of those people would actually like see that message on average only 40 of those 2,000 would be actually see it through Twitter it whereas email gets about 435 again this is an average and you're you're thinking like well that's general marketing it's probably for like insurance and stuff these are video games this is a young audience they're engaged technologically advanced it's not gonna affect video games so I wanted to test this theory I had the same thought so I found this guy pixel Jam games go check out his game diner on - he ran a successful Kickstarter last year and the cool thing about him the reason that's so interesting is he was so dedicated he emailed his list and tweeted at the exact same time on the exact same day with the same call-to-action and the same images it was like the guy was like a machine and going into his Kickstarter campaign he had twenty four thousand Twitter followers and sixteen thousand email

subscribers almost half as many email subscribers just keep that in mind so there's what happened he emailed his list five times during his during his Kickstarter campaign this is the first email these are the number of clicks his messaging got it's like an order of magnitude higher for an email and it just continues on from that way this is throughout this campaign of all the emails and tweets that he sent it's not even close it's not like hey if you just add some emojis to that Twitter it's gonna really pop it up there like it's an order of magnitude lower the number of clicks that he got from the Twitter versus email and number three you just have more functionality when you use Twitter you're just like barking out to all people at all levels of the funnel whereas email you can control your message and the best example of this is a Sindhi studio called butterscotch and Hannigan's they've released tons of games and they had something really smart like okay crash-lands was a big hit for them but they had tons of earlier games that were not as popular

so they had this brilliant idea and what they did was they created this secret unlockable side quest where you could unlock characters from their old games in crash-lands and what they idea was that it would encourage people to go get their other game and of all the people that then they ran this experiment and what they did was for everybody that found this hidden character half they got an in-game notification that hey this character is from one of our other games the other half of the audience they emailed him and this email was awesome they this email contained like a description of who the character was a description of the game that this character started which was quadruple rampage and then at the very bottom a link to go get it from the store and what they found after this little experiment an email player was 2.8 times more likely to go get the game and what happens is you're basically taking somebody from the bottom of the funnel of one game and just transfusing it like blood Overton's game be like that you don't have to worry about getting top of

the funnel move them all the way down it's a lot easier to move an existing fan over to your next game number four is real simple I'm just gonna go through all fast install base like everybody's got email you actually need an email address to sign up for Twitter and for Facebook and for Steam everybody's got an email address there's no way they can say well I don't I don't use Twitter or something okay so I know I'm pitching for email here but it sounded pretty good email-like there's a lot going on emails column here I'll give my reality to social media but remember virality is a very top of the funnel thing it's like even if you get tons of exposure everybody's retweeting it they're still just at the top of the funnel they haven't found interest in your game yet and it's we're all game designers here and what's a dominant strategy it's that thing where it's that awesome store that all players go to just because it's so overpowered email is that that overpowered dominant strategy and we don't get a lot of breaks as Indies and when we get just a little bit of a break we should double down on it so let me show you how to actually use it and take advantage of this and the way you do it is you actually you should treat email

like it's your fanclub your biggest fans should be on your email list and you should treat them like the prince and princesses that they are so it basically three-step process to get to work your email address you drive traffic to your list you build a relationship with that list and then you market your game so let's drive traffic to this list again use social media which is like very top of the funnel and you drive them to the list but like how do you get them actually join I if you look on a lot of websites you see this little tiny thing at the very very bottom of the their web page it's this little tiny box like we're afraid of it like nobody who's gonna put anything in there they don't know what's going on in there the other thing I see are a lot of noble devs that say these pronouncements like I only email you when I have a new game and it sounds noble like oh thanks dude but remember the people who give you their email address love you they absolutely adore you it's like what if you met a cool person and you gave them their phone number and you get the fun

of me like hey let's hang out this weekend isn't that cool and they said no I'm only gonna call you when I need $20 and you're like what the [ __ ] um no you're cool like let's hang out next weekend no no no you don't know when you're gonna hear from me it could be six months could be a year two years you don't know then you're gonna hit get it it's $20 that's all you're gonna hear from me it's like who would be that weird friend don't do that to your fan club the way you actually get people to join your email list is with a lead magnet and it's just a little tiny freebie that you give in exchange for an email address and you're thinking bait and switch ah no way who falls for that stupid stuff no well if you've ever been to an office and worked in office the most popular person in the office was always the one with the candy jar on their desk and the reason they were so sociable and popular was it's an icebreaker I did that myself like I'd go up and want some candy today and then I kind of get in conversation I realize they're actually a cool person and I enjoy their company it's the same thing discoverability and there's a whole discovery but LED day tomorrow the

biggest gap in game marketing is not visibility and discoverability it's actually the interest and all a lead Mac does is bridge that giant gap from somebody being aware of your game to being interested in it it just gets it over that little awkward period so here's a couple examples strafe on Studios they release the game name Bottas and what they did was a demo and get on the demo you just signed up you just gave your email address and you got on the demo that's it they got fifty thousand subscribers to their mailing list because of that you could also do stuff like give away your soundtrack say hey if you like our music I'll email it to you just give me your email address you can also do within your game in my game zombie King all my bonus levels where you got all this awesome gold it was only available to the subscribers of the email list and it was hugely popular and people signed up for it it's like a special thing just for subscribers okay so you drove traffic to your list let's build a relationship with them and the way you do this is with an autoresponder and an autoresponder is built into anything like a MailChimp or any other service provider and all it is is just a

it's just a programmed set of emails so that you pre write and so like when somebody joins a list on let's say Sunday email one is automatically sent to him on Monday and then you can program it some autumn email to is sent on Tuesday and email three is sent on Wednesday and you can change the duration and you can program it it's like writing dialogue trees um and what you do is it's how you introduce yourself like one email might just be welcome web sorry welcome another one might be tips for your game and then you talk about your company another email might be about you it just slowly introduces people and the reason this is kind of like Game of Thrones like I didn't get into it to like the fifth season or fourth family there I went back and I rewatched all the episodes in like one epic month it's your autoresponders like that like people probably are finding you for the first time even though you release tons of gay before your autoresponder will slowly introduce people you can use it to say hey this was my game I realized four years ago there's my game only two years ago you can slowly introduce who you are and catch them up so that their current

with everybody else that's the fan of your games and you might think oh my god that's a ton of emails who would ever open all that this is my autoresponder for zombie king my most opened email is that one when you have an autoresponder you're slowly building relationship with people and they like you more and more and more by the end of the autoresponder so that's why that's how you get people down the funnel your autoresponder hits the interest desire in action phase that's what it's built for so okay we we drove traffic to our mailing list got on the signup we built that relationship now it's time to market let's [ __ ] sell sell sell let's get them for every penny you've got just dig and drop the money bomb no do not cash out on your mailing list do not you built a relationship with these people and you've got to be gentle with them so we practice something called give give give ask and basically what it is is for what everyone email that you send that says like go buy our game or it's on sale it's a call to action you

do all but you have at least done three other emails that are just just content just interesting stories they don't even have a link to go buy anything they're just cool stuff and this is why you should treat your mailing list like you're just this little present wizard who's dropping presents to all the boys and girls like that guys in the desire phase right there that's what you do that is what your mailing list should look like and this is exactly what a Nintendo Power did like all their stuff is like comics it had maps they had cheat codes and like that middle map of Metroid is what sold me on the game like somewhere and there's something called an ice beam I didn't even know what an ice beam was but I knew I had to have that game cuz somewhere in that game I could find the ice beam like that is what sells people on the game and a perfect example of this is what Kitfox did for their boyfriend dungeon kickstarter on their email campaign now full disclosure I consulted with them on how to do this for their Kickstarter but what they did was that it's a game about dating weapons and dungeon fighting but the most attractive thing of course are

the dateable weapons and so what they did was they did a series of weekly emails written by each of the dateable weapons in each week you got a different love letter from each one and it told about that that weapon it told their backstory it told about the game it slowly built it up in the story of them from the from the standpoint from the viewpoint of these dateable weapons so each one was just just luxurious and here the results of that dear kit Fox their community manager Victoria got this email from one of the subscribers to the mail list I signed up for the newsletter and I never got the Isaac one and I would like to because I love these characters love letters so could I maybe be recent one show of hands has anybody even ever received an email asking to be marketed to more like to somebody say like please tweet at me more tweets like no but if you write this an engaging way people love it and they will engage with with

you and your content and I mean that's one that's pretty hot like that is totally hot like when CL no Louis was talking about the desire phase I had no idea this is pretty amazing stuff right okay so this is your fan club treat it one and the biggest myth people ever said it like what the biggest tale that devil ever told was it people don't want your email I get emails all the time from Indies they're like a very rare dispatch or I hope you don't mind getting this email or I'm invading your inbox once again this is the emails that Kitfox Cruz sent for their Kickstarter they sent six emails I'm also graphing the unsubscribe rate and if you can't see that I'm gonna zoom in right here that one pixel is the unsubscribe graph two percent of people unsubscribed from their emails despite emailing them almost once a week they people love this stuff if you write it correctly so I'm gonna kind of wrap up here um it's a story time this is me

again nine years old loving Nintendo just as link two years ago I had my own son my wife and I had our first child and you know you spend a lot of time just like looking at this leading kid and I'm wondering like am I gonna write this am I gonna someday make a shield for mice or make him a little link outfit I don't know but I had to work really hard to get zombie king out and this is the first game I use this marketing scheme on this email marketing plan and I got it out one month before he's got it before he was born because I knew like okay once he's born dev times over for a little while and so while I was doing it turns out actually you can do some like answering support emails while the kid sleeps cuz he sleeps all the time and he he's trying to get to sleep and eat all the time and this is an email from somebody who was on my mailing list and I always subscribe I always reply to them any time he said great work on the game my son and I are loving zombie King I was initially very apprehensive but subsequent emails from you have been

good and useful and true to your word that you haven't turned into a spam engine I told you guys I told you anyway then I replied back to immediately because any good dead would and I said thanks for your kind words I think it is so cool that you play with your son my first child was actually born on Wednesday can't wait for him to be old enough so I can play games with him and then this guy emailed me back and he said blank is a big fan of your game and gets the concepts well enough as was most as with most games these days he owns me and shows me how it's done and the reason I blanked out his name that guy's name is my reply was what a coincidence my son's name is the exact same he's actually in my arms as I type this it's like what kind of freaking weird by our connect scheme is this where I'm like I have a dad time with one of my fans like I'm having a bonding moment with somebody like how many times have you learned that your son like has the same name as one of your fans it's like I've done this a long time I've tried Twitter

I've tried you know talking to the press and stuff but oh my god nothing has ever worked where I'm like bonding with my fans and the reason is is because it's a one-on-one communication with email it goes to their inbox it's one person to one person and if you do this right if you're genuine you communicate with people in a kind way you're gonna connect with them and that's all this is all about this isn't crafts marketing like upping your ctn's or our booze or whatever it's just connecting with people and that's what I'm trying to teach you all with this email stuff this is the best mechanism for doing it you can you can follow me on Twitter down there I mean I love whatever and then how to market my game again I put the director's cut up there whoops and there's my desktop and but anyway um let me play this again but but you can just get more information about that there I don't know how much time do we have are we done the end of the day five minutes of questions let's go for it

I think so much for the talk I was wanting to do a question about your unsubscribing so I had on my email list I was trying to send pretty frequent emails and I got very very mixed signals about how often emails were to be sent so some people actually were unsubscribing a lot and then I just asked some friends who were on the email it's like how often you might I you merely do often some p.m. said absolutely like I'm getting way too much I don't want this much and then other people like like you some consultants for saying no you just email as much as you're gonna email and if they unsubscribe the unsubscribe so can you just maybe comment about that a little bit more yeah up your content game no I'm just kidding like basically here's what I do like for myself I try

to email every three weeks and the reason I do that I don't wanna get into this is a whole nother like talk but Google actually rates your emails based on how frequently you send and they actually they reset your good sender score after three weeks so if you don't email for three weeks it kind of reset your like credit score and that's in a bad way so if they if you're sending quality content that people are opening and you keep doing that it actually builds your reputation if you do it every three weeks and I know that sounds frequent but you just gotta send like awesome stuff like maybe the I don't know what your emails are I could actually talk to you afterwards again you guys can contact me any time this week and I will answer stuff I love this stuff I love it I will talk to you at any time so you can interrupt me but at any time while I'm walking around I'd have to look at them but sometimes it's just like just give them cool stuff that might be better the important thing is you don't want to just sell sell sell and so that's often a problem that that will cause unsubscribes so but yeah I'd be happy to check and see what you did next hey um so what is your best way to

get people to your email list I don't know if you have statistics for that but like would you put that box at the top of your website you know your social media and marketing yeah a lot of ways here's here's one of the best ways I would say it's like on a trailer at the end of the trailer say something like and again advertise your lead magnet you'd be amazed just adding a lead magnet will just boost like in like by an order of magnitude how much more subscriber you get so like at the end of your trailer say hey if you like this art get the free art book it's not after our mailing list and we'll email you this cool concept art just doing that hit them where they are you could also like on social media pin your tweet I pin a tweet that just says hey if you want more information go get this game on there but also forums all kind of stuff and within your game is also a good way of doing it just because your fans are in there so those are some ideas so you compared emails to Facebook other Twitter other social media but I was wondering if you have any thoughts on a discord set seems to be like the big up-and-coming community engagement

tool III I have not tested discord but there's a something fundamental about email because people always check their email and it doesn't scroll like people are pretty good about keeping their inbox clean and just that natural ability will cause them to open and click on more emails the other thing is for some reason just psychologically and the way the software works when people are an email mode they're thinking buying stuff for some reason when they're in discord in social media they're just hanging out with friends it's like a cocktail party and that's why it doesn't always work to advertise within social media because it's like you're coming into some of these cocktail party and saying hey buy this drink it's you like Tito's alcohol you're gonna like this one that's your kind of crashing some of these party in social media but emails all business and they're willing to like pay for stuff that's just a hunch but I feel like discord is also more in the party side of things but that's just a hunch I haven't tested it if anybody has data please email me I had a

question too question yeah let's see if I can sneak in both but the first one is about the content of the email and getting rated as by gmail as a promotional email and I wonder whether you feel like oh yeah you should be sending emails that are mostly not rated as promotion or whether no no you should be in the promotion tab just so everybody understands yeah I'm trying to sell you something but I'm trying to talk about myself the same yeah you want to get out of that promotion tab as fast as you possibly can oh there's a whole GDC talk just about how to get on a promotional tab which they probably wouldn't approve because they think this stuff's boring but but the basically about the promotional tab the best way is to send short emails that don't have many links and don't have many just one of the worst things you can do is I see a lot of people who won't write their newsletter for like six months and then they talk everything that that studio has been doing for six months and it's all these pictures all these links that hurts your Gmail score because that spammers and and marketers typically load stuff up with images and links keep your emails very short and simple and

just talk to them like they're human don't try and sell stuff smell says hey I just got something new talking first person like you're one way that I typically write my emails is I imagine I'm writing to my best friend about my game and then I just send that to everybody all of my subscribers and that just amazingly well you don't want to be a formal like press release style writing it's very conversational again it's like a one-on-one communication and a lot of times other tricks you can do is you can ask a questions it's like hey what's your favorite game if they reply Google trick it tricks Google and they say who would ever reply to a spam message this can't be spam this is out take it out of the promotional tab and put in the their main tab that's why when that person answered and said hey could you please send me that missing Isak email Google is like this is a quality email who would respond to a marketers email and so your whole game as when you get into email marketing is trying to get out of the promotion tab and into the real inbox when you're doing that you know MailChimp will let you like you know use your branded colors and your company

logo and your header of your email it sounds like you were like no no don't do that it's a feature but turn it off turn it off just some plain white background Arial text no branding a little bit of branding but the thing is I found I I subscribe to all of your email addresses all your email lists by the way I just I trow out I just go through and just try and collect as much data as I can if I don't hear from you while I forget who you are you're like sparking monkey studios I don't remember your games I don't remember your branding as much but the thing I do remember your games so what I do for my game says I always do like a headline image just like a header image of the game whatever game I'm promoting or whatever and now that's more triggering than your studio logo I know you worked really hard on your studio logos but they kind of kind of blend together the more important thing is I just do one big reminder image of the game I'm promoting and then then a link with a call to action okay last question so um I'm subscribed to a lot of newsletter that I like and I

subscribed because I wanted to but usually when I get to my email I'm looking for something specific you know and specifically Mayo that someone sent me so there's a lot of newsletter emails that I think would be nice but I kind of just don't read sometimes so is there anything to that we could make a do to not make people ignore your your newsletter like oh that that's nice I'm gonna read them later and that later never comes well like like I was saying give give give and the fact that you are like a little prison present wizard like you want to give gifts that people when they see the subject line are like yes I want that so one of the first things like when you sign up for my newsletter within my game one of the first things I email you is like here's a tip on how to get more gold and they're like yeah I do want to know how to get more gold I am definitely opening this that's it that's like what I mean by a gift or like like

if you've got a really complicated game like hey download this this tech tree that can be like the subject line like hey you like the tech tree for my game and then they open it and they see like a whole tech tree that you like help them like that's what all Nintendo Power was like just buy a copy of a Nintendo Power and just flip through it like all these pages of like naps and cheat codes that's the stuff that people want so if you just put that in the subject line and say open this email to get that thing they're gonna be like yes that's exactly what I need right now so you're just giving good things it will help them with your game so it's it's it's easier if you have a very complex game but I hope that answers um I again I will talk about this forever so even though there's no more questions if you want to meet me out there I will talk to you all week you get a free pass on this stuff so thank you very much thanks for coming [Applause]