The Dark Place of 'Alan Wake 2': Crafting an Evolving Nightmare Dimension

[Music] this is me uh my name is nazarin Urbano and uh for the past four years I have been working as a lead environment artist on Alan Wake 2 and among other things I'm passionate about graffiti football meditation photography and most important I'm passionate about pizza I've been working in the game industry uh since 2008 uh most of my recent career has been a tredy uh where I work on Quantum break uh control and alen Wick 2 and this talk is about environment warb building of the dark place I think uh game development can sometimes feel uh confusing and disorienting like being lost in in the

dark so in this presentation I will explain how we escape this dark dark place of development by finding some lights that led us to make the game become real this presentation is divided into three parts uh first I'm going to cover the creative direction of the game then I'm going to talk about uh the visual solution we have uh implemented to support the the creative Direction and then in the end I'm going to talk about some uh technical implementation and uh this is the table of content uh for content for each section of the presentation and here you can see all the subject we're going to cover uh throughout this presentation and for those who are not uh familiar with the game halan wake 2 is a psychological survival horror game

and the player takes the role of two characters Saga Anderson an FBI agent and Alan Wake a writer that has been missing for 13 years and in the game we are exploring uh two different worlds the real world set in the Pacific Northwest and the dark place a nightmare Dimension and this talk is about the dark place and to give you a better context I'm going to play a trailer in a horror story they're only victims and monsters and the trick is not to end up this either but trapped by the genre we're all whipped to Pieces along way no welcome we have a great show for you here tonight one of my alltime favorite riters and gu on the show he's here to talk about his latest book

initiation tells a story of a fictional writer named Alan Wake who was trapped in a nightmare desperately trying to find the manuscript of a novel he has forgotten he's WR did you write these Pages Mr W I'm trying to remember it's you're the killer the cult bleeding no you've got the wrong man it's my fault they got out wake has a double where is he now I don't want to be in the story just right be out of the story

and the foundation to build a great and believable world is a great story the starting point for defining the dark place is the story written by Sam Lake narrative is the key component of most of the remedy games and it is also what makes them special the following is a quote from initiation the manuscript of the dark place the dark place is a nightmare diens mention it is a source of dark energy that can make art come true it makes Dreams and Nightmare come true Alan is trapped in the dark place looking to escape and so was I dropped in Sam Lake story trying to make the game become real the writer told me about the atmosphere

wake is a writer of AR Bo crime novels about Alex Casey and the atmosphere we need to recreate it's a cidi and dangerous New York of his crime fiction books and we do not want to replicate New York as it is the city must feel like a bad dream wet cold and dark we want to create a fictional New York that fits the narrative and all of it it's part of the construct so what is this construct the nature of the dark place is built from a crooked mirror reflection of Alan's mind and the dark place can manifest as a mental construct at the same time we are trapped in a horror story the dark place

must be scary a looping nightmare Dimension the dark place works in loops and spirals Alan is trying to escape the dark place by rewriting the story and he must make the horror come true to escape the dark place and so is lost and trapped in his own nightmare and so after understanding uh the creative direction of the game uh we need to think about some visual Solutions we need to build an atmosphere and also a world that is built from a mind construct so how do we start building the atmosphere we start by using uh the story as a light to start our Research into the darkness

we were doing research about New York but went deeper than a simple image search we were diving and learning about the history of the place and also study relevant films and books we identified the most iconic element something that will be recognizable as an archetype of a big city and those elements can sometimes be Bridges dark par hys elevated Railways and also tall buildings and there is a collective memory of New York and what we want to do is to steal those memory and then use them uh to build the world and this memory uh can come from movies Comics photography and also other media and for example we look at scores movies for in inspiration and taxi

driver was one of our main reference and then I became obsessed with research and created numerous reference boards and then in my mind it start forming a new version of New York we applied our research and ideas and created uh the first version of the dark place and uh this phase of pre-production uh we were exploring the atmosphere uh we were building prototypes and uh find ways to integrate a narrative and gamepl and also trying to understand how in the world we're going to build this dark place and to give you a better context of the production pipeline at remedy every project goes through a stage gate process so we have a Mand that stage that Define uh the strateg iic goals

then in the concept stage we Define the high level Creative Vision and this is a a product product of the collaboration between the three directors uh Sam Yan and Kyle and during this concept phase they all work together and uh Define how the dark place works uh but they also make sure that narrative art and game play work together but also support each other and then uh we take this high level Creative Vision and then create the proof of concept uh build so we translate that into a playable build um that show that the game is fun and it works but we also focus on the risks and The Innovation and we created some concept art and uh we explore uh different ideas

and for example at the end of the first game Alan dives into cauldron Lake and end up in the dark place and water is one of the main theme of the game and we wanted to express it in different forms so we drew inspiration from underwater visuals but at the same times we wanted the dark place to look uh like a realistic City eventually this underwater feeling was translated uh with onscreen visual ual effects uh surface material treatment but we also decided that in the dark place it was always raining and here you can see the first prototype of directional flow in darkness effect and this is how then we implemented uh this proof of concept idea into the final game

and then here it's when we apply the rain visual effects on top and for the proof of concept uh level we have created a small City intersection and we wanted to create something that would be somehow recognizable as New York and this is was our playground to experiment and also fail and we built uh prototypes for light shifters and light shifter are unstable lights uh that can change uh the environment around them

and by doing that they help Alan to progress in the game we built prototypes for plot board where Allan find Clues and move them around to change reality and again this will help him to progress uh in the story and for this build we have created uh a full 30 minutes Mission and in this Mission uh we have tested some combat spaces uh we combined uh the light shifter gaml uh with narrative and also try to give the impression of a looping environment we also did this test uh for Chase with a dark presence and explore navigation in narrow spaces uh such as fire escape and also small windows

and the first version of the dark place uh was a painful learning process uh we did identify the main problem that we had with the mission flow uh so we had too much backtracking uh most of the puzzle were very confusing and the narrative was very complex but another thing we have learned is that uh the dark place was too dark and this mean that the scale proportion and silhouette they play a big role in the look of the city but also that we needed to have a bit more lights to see and uh another thing we have uh find out is to we defined the main feature we were going to need to build this looping environment and the first feature were the light shifters so unstable light that can change the environment the second feature was the reality

rewrite so with the plot board Alan can change the environment around him and then the teleports which are essentially enclosed space that we use to teleport the player around we've also learned that uh Flat City intersection are quite boring especially because the player speed in our game is very very slow and in the mission we had a lot of back track backtracking so it was not fun for Allan to Traverse these big roads with no elevation and that's why it was quite sad and so we applied this learning from the proof of concept uh in the final game layout and so we have built an elevated Plaza in the middle that act as a centerpiece and then we added the Highline uh next to the plaza and that

creates creates a nice elevated shape and then instead of the classic cross intersection we have built this v-shape intersection and then we had even more elevation by creating uh rooftop gameplay this video shows uh the level layout of the proof of concept level and this is one of the earlier version of the actual dark place layout and as you can see here the streets are still quite wide and then to reach the final layout uh we iterate a lot on the size and position of the building and also the streets and these are other example of uh before and after of the same layout

and we decide to place quy Ali on an even lower level compared to the street to create uh even more elevation and this is a top down map uh of the dark place and we designed the world in a way that every key location of the game is visible uh from the center plaza and from from there you can also see all the iconic elements of the city such as the Highline the bridges and the alley and then we had uh sign one one artist working on each location and we all felt like we wanted to escape the dark place to continue on the learning we have learned that using too many light shifter would increase the scope and complexity uh of the environment and then we need to have less of them and also find uh better

ways to manage the resources so we applied this learning in the final game layout H so we have spread the light shifter across the whole dark place and we made sure we had a lot of space uh between them as well as having something uh interesting to see and we find out that fire escape were very problematic especially for navigation collision and camera and so we decided to cut them from the game uh mainly because we didn't we didn't want to scale them up and make them look unrealistic because everything in the game must be as close to a realistic scale as possible because that will help the horror experience and it makes the environment looks real so we didn't scale any asset we also find out the small

interior apartment were very expensive to build and they were not very useful uh for combat spaces but instead we decide to use them uh mainly for narrative and uh exploration and to continue talk about the visual solution uh we need to talk about the construct the construct is the main pillar of the World building in the dark place because everything that the player sees comes from Allan's mind so how do we build an environment from a mind construct the way we approach the World building it's seen through and also asset creation it's seen through the light of archetypes so even though we reference New York of the 70s and early 80s uh we do not refer to a specific timeline and

that's because the construct does not belong to a precise timeline and we use the quintessential version of an asset uh instead of the more contemporary one and in general we do favor Timeless and uh iconic models and to give you an example uh when we create one asset we collect a lot of different reference uh photo and then we review them and in this example we needed to decide what cach register we're going to build for the game although they look quite similar uh the second one as few B curves and that makes the asset looks uh too modern so we decid to go with the first reference and then end up building something like this uh for the game and this is another example uh where we a bit older model when it it

helps to build uh the right kind of atmosphere and then end up building uh something like this uh for the game and to support the construct of the dark place every object with text is an opportunity to adapt into the story and graffi is an important asset uh that contributes to the war building it is very characteristic of New York of the 80s and it's also part uh of an archetype of any big Metropolitan City but to be part of the construct the words in the graffiti must come from Allen's mind and I grew up making graffiti and I usually try to add them to every project I work on and the dark place felt like the perfect opportunity to merge uh Gra grai narrative and also video

games and I did not want to just make streetart again because it's too modern but instead H we wanted to create a nightmare version of the old school New York graffiti and then use them everywhere around the city in the dark place and the writers gave us a list of words coming from Alan's mind and we were only allowed to use this words and nothing else so we hired a graffiti artist and then built the nightmare graffiti in the real world and then we took uh photos of them and then create textures uh and made projected decals out of it and we've created uh this big cand uh

with a lot of uh layer tugs and color and a lot of the graffiti are dripping and leaking again to reinforce the horror feeling of the game and the dark place we wanted to have also shadowy figures in the dark place uh something that would complement the Real Enemy Fade Out in the game and also make the player constantly second game guessing what they're seeing the artists also experiment uh with different shapes and symbols and we also reinterpret various symbols uh that have a deeper meaning with the remedy connected Universe such as the spiral and the triangles

and then we added the graffiti uh into the dark place and uh as an example this is the base environment without any projected deals and this is how it looks when we apply a layer of graffiti and graffiti can add a lot of color to the image but they also can be reused across most of the environment in the game they also add another uh storytelling layer to the world and uh they help uh the war building by blending uh all the environments

together and another way uh to add words into the dark place is the use of newspapers and here the inspiration again comes from the photos of New York of the 70s uh where the streets were filled with like newspapers and trash but because they contain written words the text must come from Alan's mind so we collaborated with the graphic agency uh called lanan halami and created a set of fictional newspaper to use in the dark place and all of the headlines in this paper they have a narrative uh link to the story and billboards and post posters are also a great opportunity to add big images to the world and uh make the city feels more believable so so we created uh many

posters and billboards and then use them everywhere around the city and for another example like this is the base layer of the city and this is how it looks when we apply uh papers graffiti posters and also Billboards and Alan Wake is a writer and wor are very important to him so we wanted to give the impression that the whole dark place was talking to Alan and and the player and there are no generic signs uh in the dark place and here are some example on how we apply that idea to something that might feel generic as a license plate or construction signs or the subway indication and for example the text in the construction sign on the right is what Alan wrote in the first

game and neon sign are also one important aspect uh of building the atmosphere same as the other text they're also part of the construct we use neon to create the feeling of floating words in space at the same time we were having a lot of trouble with player guidance because the level it's quite open so we decide to use the neon sign to guide Alan and the player and in this instance uh we wanted the player to go left so I thought what about adding a sign that says this way and director did like the Prototype idea So eventually we implemented it uh this is the implementation in the game uh with the more meaningful narrative link and we implemented various neon signs um all with a narrative link to

the story or the mission and after covering uh the creative Direction and the visual solution uh we can talk a bit about the technical implementation so how do we create an looping nightmare environment the dark place progression is divided in loops Alan always starts from the same location in the talk show studio and Alan is trying to escape the dark place by rewriting reality and the story and by doing that is able to change the environment around him the dark place can act in a dreamlike way at each Loop a building can appear and also Des

appear and this concept uh shows the state of the dark place during the first Loop and then when Alan gets to the second Loop a new building has appear in the space and one feature that we use to create uh a feeling of impossible transition uh is the seamless teleport and here is an example the ocean view hotel my destination so Holland is trying to enter the hotel but then he gets teleported back a loop that delivered me back to the street what did the mystery caller said

if the waves keep pushing you away you just need to find another way in with only dream logic to lead me to the hotel I look to the neon signs for guidance and this is another example of a Teleport so when Alan enters the stairs uh he get teleported to another point in the level and the player does not notice the transition and we wanted to create the feeling of being lost and the way this works uh essentially we are using the same prefab in two different position and this ensure the environment is exactly the same and then once the player hits the trigger in the middle of the stairs uh they get teleported to to the other point in the

level we also use teleport as a transition in between levels and in this case the ocean view hotel building is quite small compared to its interior layout and so after Alan passes the skybridge he gets teleported to the real layout which is this and it's underground and as you can see this layout is way bigger compared to the small exterior building and so the simless teleport allowed us to create impossible transition and also looping spaces but also was good to teleport the player to the actual layout without changing the structure of the level so it was good for creating looping environment but on the other hand we had to constantly iterate on the teleports because all the system must behave correctly in both tele ports so this feature required a lot of

iteration and it did cause a lot of bugs and Allan can rewrite the story and change the environment and in the dark place we have defined areas in the environment where Alan can rewrite the story and change the reality so when he's in the writer room he has access to this plot board and in here he can select different a plot element with different story and then apply them uh to the scene and by doing so the environment will change and the way this work we have um so each environment is divided into asset nodes and they could

be seen as some sorts of containers so each asset nodes includes all the specific permutation of that plot element and then we swap them dynamically via script and as you can see in the scene in the editor it becomes very messy because all of the elements are in the same space one on top of each other and most of these scenes uh they required a lot of concept art support and we did multiple iteration on them to create the final image and also to understand the narrative so they required a lot of concept art and also each plot element increased the scope of the environment because the propping is custom uh to each scene and the scope does not just increase uh for the environment artist but for all the crafts because each element has a different

lighting a different sound different narrative and they all need to work in the same space so the scope increase for all the crafts and what we end up doing during uh production is that we scope down and then prioritize uh each scene and then Focus mainly on the critical one and another key feature of the dark place are the light shifters light shifter are unstable lights that can change the environment they have essentially two states uh charged and uncharged and each state has a different environment in it and I've been trying to explain in a simple way why the light shifter were a major challenge for the team and unfortunately this is the best I can up

with and so from their Direction point of view the art director can require that light shifter are not just a door but then most of our design were just a door appearing and then the lighting artist would complain saying I cannot just add the light on a door and at the same time we had a lot of problem uh with game design and Ur are because the player did not understand that this specific light was important so they they were stuck in the mission and what we end up doing uh during production is that we created a lot of different prototypes and we constantly failed uh we asked concept art to help us and and then we we created some custom concept art for this and then on on the design side uh we decide the

shifters are the only blinking light in the space but we also iterate a lot on the the UI and the audio uh to improve guidance and also visibility and here you can see the uncharged light shifter and at the end of The Alley uh there is a charged one and because of the amount of Lights in the space uh our lighting team uh worked with the art director to establish a clear hierarchy of light so gameplay lights they must be pure in color and they're brighter than any other light and then we use a neon sign that they have like a dimmer intensity and they are colored and same for other uh backdrop

lights my path was blocked I had to find a way through the light would help me and the light shifter are the main tool we use to create environment puzzles and also to create this feeling of being lost in a maze and the light shifter are also they're also very expensive to build uh and they require a full collaboration between design audio and V and also lighting and we did iterate infinite amount of time because of player guidance uh in in a city with a lot of lights it was very hard to make the player understand that this specific light is important so this feature required a lot of iteration and then during pre-production we we were seeing them as

a like a reusable system that we could easily use to make puzzle but in reality each light shifter ended up being unique and this mean that they all come with different problems and they're like very hard to the bug and Alan was sad again and uh so we have covered this uh the three main features of the dark place and then moving towards the last section of the talk let's talk about the live action in the game the nature of the dark place allow us to use live action footage to express a different layer of reality and live action is seamlessly integrated with game play and it is just another manifestation of the dark place on a different

level and in this example Alan is looking for Zan's room so we use live action footage to transition between these layers of reality the room was empty except for the projector more games was the film a message waiting to be played so Alan is interacting with the projector and this allows um a transition into the live action where Zan room is and this room only exist in the live action it does not exist in the 3D environment and the layer of reality in the dark place can be expressed in different forms forms for example it can manifest as a supernatural

musical he could story like T maybe they be Happ again just one shot one more chance for to save their marriage away from the city a Roan so one of our main reference uh for the stage we building was the movie dogville and we wanted to use a minimal environment stage approach and this

movie uses a theater technique to delimit different spaces uh with just a line on the ground they Define the rooms and the streets so we adopted the same uh minimal approach in in the game environment but that's also because the projections we're going to do a big part of the heavy lifting in the image composition and the way the projection are working it's quite simple uh we have created a cube and then mapped an emissive video texture to it and then attached to the cube we have a spotlight that uses a video as volumetric projection and here we can see um the spotlight projection so we use a lower Meep map of the video video the video texture and this that creates this

volumetric effect that match the what's in the video and the dark place can also manifest into our reality and some of the characters from the game escaped the dark place and start dancing on stage at the game awards the champion of I'll show you the of [Music] Darkness [Music] [Applause] [Music] never we did not expect that when to making the game and to talk a bit about the learning from this liveaction uh pipeline it's good to keep in mind that

the 3D environment and the live action set they needs to match and there cannot be a big discrepancy and for us the most efficient way uh was to build first uh the 3D environment and then let the live action crew recreate that on on the set and this is one of my personal nightmare so during previous project uh we have experienced some issues with the communication and then ended up with the real white box lamp in the shoots and that's not a final model and also it ended up in all of the live action materials and this quickly became one of the top remedy Meme and so it it requires a coordinated effort uh to PL the shoot and uh when we

were creating this environment for the game we gave priority to all the live action location in the game and created a special concept art and then we built the environment in 3D up to Alpha quality and then send all the asset uh to the live action crew and we have covered all the section of the presentation and we can talk about the conclusion so I think the creative journey of making a game it's similar to trying to escape a dark place and in both instances you need to find the light uh to make it out so your first light uh can be the story so let the story inspires you and then decide what kind of atmosphere you want to create in our case was an Noir crime scene EO of New York dark and

grimy then find your own construct and uh decide what kind of asset can be used uh in your game what kind of archetype can be used for us was a place built from memories where words have a deeper meaning and also the reality is subjective and then Define uh what kind of experience you want the player uh to feel and for us was a horror story with the a looping environment and Alan was trapped and then in my experience uh one of the biggest light will always be your team so be uh truthful to them and be there for them all the time uh try to be compassionate and understand other people people difficulties because making game is very hard and then be tolerant and kind because because building a World require a lot of time passion and dedication so solves problem

together and always strive to create something original and unique and whatever you do stay in the light thank [Applause] [Music] [Music] you maybe questions hey that was really cool and first of all I got to say this is one of the most unique and amazing like visually speaking games I've ever seen so great job um it's cool I thought it was really interesting that you had to you hired a graffiti artist externally especially since you already had a passion for that I was curious if you could just talk a little bit more about like what that like how did you why did you all decide to hire externally rather than I don't know maybe you making it or something

like that and um what you what in particular like what kind of criteria you were looking for with that artist yeah so the artist we hired is actually my best friend and uh yeah we grew up making graffiti together and then uh he end up being like a real artist so he does painting and he's a street artist um so when doing the dark place I knew he was the right guy to do uh the job uh because he can do like a lot of different styles and and if you notice uh if you know a bit of about graffiti there are so many different styles so each person has his own and uh my friend has a lot of different personalities and we he managed actually to create such a a nice variety of different style of graffiti and uh he also likes to draw like Monsters and like horror um and like painting so I was like he he's the perfect fit and I know him so it's very easy to

collaborate very cool thank you yeah oh sorry okay uh thank you game looks awesome I still haven't played it I'm like working my way through control so yeah you know not enough time to play games when you make them so um so earlier on you talked about learnings in the early prototyping stage and you you mentioned how the game had too much backtracking confusing puzzles and things like that it was too dark and uh yeah how do you um how do you keep the focus on track how do you keep is there ever a point where people are like well it it should be confusing there should be backtracking or something like that even if it's like yeah does that make sense that question kind of yeah like like someone could argue that the narrative says that it should be confusing it should be even if if it's not fun yeah how do you keep how do you stop that argument from kind of winning

over making fun gameplay because they say it fits the narrative it should be confusing yeah you know what I mean I think we never really like stop the argument sorry oh um it it's about the I guess the level layout being confusing but the story is also confusing so how do you deal with that I guess kind of was that your question um but but I I know what you mean uh we constantly like iterate um and we did a lot of play test uh I also collaborate a lot with the level designer and game designer and we constantly uh test every prototype and it's very hard because Alan is trapped and it's lost so it's supposed to be confusing and the environment is looping but it's very hard to make it fun in a way uh it's it it was very hard to to

design and we just iterated like okay a lot and then we had to ship so we were like okay this is fine again all right interesting thanks hello hi uh fantastic talk um and as a native New Yorker fantastic job uh creating a a version of New York City uh that represented how dirty New York City was when I when I was living there um uh I did want to ask a question about the collaboration between multiple teams uh you mentioned um user research uh inform forming some of the decisions uh in the game and then as a user researcher myself I was just interested in understanding uh the Cadence of user research um and how that uh affected your teams um and possibly uh some of the impact that that had on the work that you did uh specifically yeah thanks for the question so it's about your testing we do a lot of your uh research uh throughout the whole project uh I

would say maybe every two months or so like as soon as we have something we just organize like a your test and then we can um we can look at people playing and see how they play um and then based on that that that's all always very very helpful because we see when they get stuck uh what happened what do they do and most of the time it's something that you don't expect that they do and based on that we actually iterate a lot on the Lev design side and on the layout um so it it helps a lot like the more you can do it I think the better it is did you find that uh your teams uh took well to the to the some of the findings that the user research team uh found um and if so what were some of the challenges uh adapting some of the findings that uh the user research team articulated to the various teams that you work with yeah uh yeah it's a tricky question in general I think if something comes from

Ur uh we do fix it if it's especially if it's critical or major uh we do fix it if we find out that something is on a minor level that maybe not but we tend to react on that uh very quickly so we don't wait uh time to fix those but there is a point in production when like you have to you cannot change so much the level uh so so later on uh at the end of alp or so you can do only like small adjustment um like lights there is one there was one very very painful light shifter that we I think iterate until the day before shipping and and this light shifter was actually inside a plot element and inside that there was also a Teleport so it was like an nested mess of things uh but then towards the end we did fix the the UR issue with the audio and lighting uh because usually those are

actually kind of easy to add later on without changing the layout so that was one example awesome thank you so much problem um I had a question about like how level design and environmental art work together yeah um I'm currently working at a very small team so it's basically one designer and one artist and we don't really know like where one thing turns into the other so I wanted to know what do you normally receive from Level design department and what do you normally get and that back and forth to Define kind of the layout and how it affects gameplay and narrative so the way we structure the team the mission team is that we have uh it goes in couple so we have one artist and one designer and they all work together uh on the same location and

it's up to them to them to iterate on the layout so it's uh to me it should be almost like a married couple because it they really needs to solve the problem together and understand that uh art is important but also level design layout and gaml it's also very important uh and in general they sit in the same room so we have the the mission team structure is divided into like hubs so we have a dark place cauldron Lake water in bright fold that are four rooms and in those rooms we have artist and designer level designer together uh so I would suggest keep them as close as you can and uh let them like iterate a lot okay thank you very much hi um I was curious about the uh like liveaction pipeline like kind of um how you decided like where those transitions happened or if you like had

to I guess like I guess kind of like chicken in the egg like what comes first of like do you guys like uh you know decide like oh we really want like a life action sequence here and then trans into like a new level or um you know kind of like how much oversight does like the 3D team have over like the set production because I assume those are like different like completely different like Studios or pipelines yeah yeah there are two separate pip ples um so for the dark place we decided that all the cinematics almost except one they are in live action uh so we decided all that pipeline was going to be live action um it's not just for for a scoping or a budget point of view but it's also because it fits the the dark place so because of the reality and the different layer H in that sense it makes a lot of sense to live action as cinematic uh and I think in general like 3D cinematics

are very very expensive live action was actually cheaper in a way but it also fits the The Narrative and the story and then in the real world uh we have the the normal cinematics so that that was our our thinking um did you have any like issues with just like uh if one gets like ahead of the other or did you just kind of have them all self-contained enough or like like it didn't you know you could just work on them concurrently and then I'm I'm asking cuz like I'm interested I'm on a very small Indie team but like we want I want to do like you know that kind of like sequencing but I'm curious like do it use my um but I'm just curious of like you know at at what that level kind of like how much of an effort is it to like just coordinate both of that because that's obviously like very very different like you're working with yeah I'm not very familiar with that we have a team that uh deals with the whole live action

Pipeline and uh also for for the game it was defined from the story point of view so from The Narrative team actually decide when a cinematic happens and where and uh for the environment artist we only knew that okay that space needs to be in live action so let's build it uh fast and let's review it a lot and then let's send it to the to the live action all right yeah thank you yeah you're welcome all right thank you so much [Music]