Alien: Rogue Incursion | Bridging VR and Flat Screen Experience with Ross DeVito | 366

Help. We believed in our mission. We were going to be gods, but we tampered with something we should have left alone. Everyone else is dead. We're all that's left.
Whoever fights this Destroy them.

Every last one of them. [Music] [Applause] [Music] What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of GameDev Unchained, the number one game development podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof. I am your host Brandon Fam. And please help me welcome a special guest, Ross

Devito. How you doing, Ross?
I'm great. How are you? Thanks for having me.
Great, man. Thanks for coming on to the program. So, uh, before we get started, this is the part where I introduce our guests or let the guests introduce themselves to the listeners and viewers out there, who they are, where they're from, where they're heading, just a little little taste of what we're going to get into.
Yeah. Um, so yeah, like you said, my name is Ross Cvidito. Um, I have been working at a company called Servios, uh, VR Studio for the last about five years. And um I started uh I went to I went to we we can do a quick little uh background. I started um out studying mechanical engineering and ended up realizing I didn't like uh my path and needed more of a creative route and I ended up kind of just stumbling upon um a minor uh called computing for interactive arts um at Calpali St.

Lucabispo and um uh we made a VR capstone project and I was like, "Wow, this is uh this is great stuff. I'm I'm starting to feel like way more fulfilled in and like the creative aspect and uh interviewed a lot, failed a lot, and uh finally Servios picked me up and and I've been there since. So, it's been cool."
Awesome, man. Hey, that's quite of a origin story. Mechanical engineering. I think that's the first guest we ever talked to. We've had architects, we've had people uh from all sorts of industry backgrounds coming into the games, but mechanical engineering seems uh even industrial. So, what the the the biggest difference obviously you're working with your hands or or are you mostly in the background kind of drafting up things? What? Uh well yeah mechanical engineering you're like you do more like designs of like uh mechanical and moving systems and like I I would say like

industrial engineering is probably more like um like with factories uh and stuff and um and yeah I knew lots of architectural engineers over at Kalpali. They're really famous for that. Uh but yeah, it's uh it's a great industry and I definitely learned a lot and like it my day-to-day uh here working as a gameplay programmer um you got to do a lot of 3D math especially in VR and uh a lot of my dynamics uh you know mechanics classes really actually prepared me quite a bit which they don't tell you in school like uh yeah I was um you know pretty surprised that like I keep calling upon that almost every day.
What's um before we move on to the the meat of the topic, what's what's kind of like the the crowd like with the mechanical engineering that know the people you hang out with?
Obviously, a lot of listeners, myself included.

Um coming from an art school background, you kind of get like a sense of the land, right? Um
yeah,
I feel like engineers are kind of like a whole different side.
Yeah. Um, I mean, you got you got different, you know, different clicks. I I would say, um, I was like, uh, before I decided to make the real transition over into a more creative space, I was, um, working on, uh, there's a a club at, uh, Calpaly called Cubat, which was actually founded there. It's a um, it's a like a satellite program. uh like you know they develop these like small tiny little satellites that you get some some project uh like experiment you want to try to prove something and and uh
and you you know get get your team together and strap it onto a rocket and then it ejects into space. Um but yeah anyway like that that sort of like uh crowd of people like going uh going into

aerospace were very outdoorsy, very friendly. Um, a lot of my friends there would like go rock climbing all the time and we'd go on hikes and and uh snowboarding and and uh yeah, it was like definitely not the the typical thing that you'd expect.
Yeah.
Yeah. You said outdoors that that's a big differential uh to game developers. I mean nowadays it's changed obviously where this group is more ver like have gotten more versatile especially with remote like I know a lot of
people are into camping and and outdoor type of life kind of get that balance but there were there was a period where game developers are kind of known to to just especially engineering uh to be uh in the corner kind of slaving away at the computer. Yeah. missing the sun basically on week
I mean vitamin deficiency is is still a thing with

yeah sometimes and uh co didn't help that you know but um you know trying to catch up on the out outdoor time for sure
well I mean man um the cool thing about what you guys are making over there aliens a rogue I mean I I've been thankfully Alex introduced uced us. We've had him on the pod a while back. Um VR have always been this passion um part I come from the environment art background. of VR in general have always been like this thing that that have have grown, you know, uh it's way beyond the niche market at this point, right? We're talking about millions of units across all platforms. We're talking about the meta, talking about VR2 now with PlayStation. So, it's always been like this growing uh sector uh and to me still the most exciting sector in the game industry. uh uh that a lot of

people I still feel haven't fully experienced. And we're talking about the mass general market. Um like for me myself, I didn't realize how like I I felt like I was more like a casual VR person, but then I took a look around the room. I was cleaning it. I realized I have pretty much all the VR sets from Oculus 2. I even had the Samsung Gear when, you know, you were attaching your your phone to your face and everybody thought that was a good idea at one point, right? Uh just burning your face off. And then uh yeah, I I followed it since the Meta um uh uh the Oculus uh since they bought it and now I got the the latest Meta 3 Quest, right? So like and um so I I realize I've been kind of uh involved in that market as a gamer for for a while now. Um you guys are

recently porting, right? I don't even know if that's the correct term uh from VR to flat screen, which is what Alex kind of mentioned in his messaging. It's like, "Oh man, this is that is a term I haven't heard yet. Uh I wonder where that term came from." Uh, and can you kind of expand on that a bit about why what why flat screen versus console or anything else?
Right. Right. Um, so so yeah, like uh you know, servidos um you know started out VR company. Um we're always looking for ways to like innovate and uh and immerse the player and VR is definitely a great uh avenue to do that. Um and uh like flat screen is it's like a it's kind of like an in-house term I guess it's just like an easy way um like you know you got virtual reality is VR like we call it um flat screen or FS like uh internally and um you know like uh I

think uh to to speak to like VR or flat screen or console PC like whatever you want to call it um you know they they they uh They're great for for both for for like any whatever mood you're in, I think. Um and like once once uh like the hardware becomes more accessible um like you said um like you still feel like most people haven't fully experienced um VR uh like you know once once it keeps uh growing and more and more people are able to like go and um you know really play it and see and experience what it's like to go to another world. It's like that that's uh that's pretty that would be that's that is going to be pretty sweet. And um and like but that doesn't take away from from this experience. Uh Alien Rogue Incursion Evolved Edition we're calling it. Um,

like we we can take all of that knowledge and like we built a like a really solid um, you know, narrative and and experience and and fight with the xenomorphs and we can we can pack all of that in and like our whole uh, you know, company knowledge of how to innovate and immerse the player will go into this this flat screen or console experience. Um, and it's it's something that we're really really excited about and and uh you know we're we're getting close to you know the release date and I've been playing it as as we get closer and like every time I just like am playing it with like a smile on my face because it's it's just cool to see it like all come to fruition and and uh yeah
to kind of expand on the um there's a couple follow-up questions but the main one is like was the the game originally for VR 2 first and then uh

like meta or meta at the same time or
uh VR2 you mean PSVR2?
Yeah. What was it originally developed for?
Um yeah, so the I mean the original intention um was was for both for sure. And like the um I I don't necessarily know uh all the you know I I can't speak for leadership decisions and stuff. Uh like we uh definitely like when you develop we were developing on on PCs cuz you know that's uh it's just easiest de to develop uh working on a PC and and I actually didn't work too much on the uh Quest 3 version. Um but it was you know like uh I I worked very closely on like in PC

and then uh working on PSVR 2 and um uh yeah uh we we had like a separate team that was working on um making those uh cuz you know Quest 3 is is uh it's a lot lighter you know it's it's like working on um mobile
bit mobile. Yeah. Uh so like working and and bringing a game from such high fidelity that we had down to that is is quite the feat in itself and uh they they worked they worked really hard and and they I think we we come away proud with how it looked. Um uh does that kind of answer your question? Sorry.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like I I guess my my my main um question about that is that you know as a developer um you you always kind of develop for the baseline right the in this case probably the meta is probably like the

weakest right and then the PlayStation VR
so um I was wondering how uh much of a leap it was to develop
uh well it sounds like VR2 and Meta was kind of developed at the same time, right? I would imagine meta to VR2 is probably a better like uh transition, right? Because you get more memory, you're working with PlayStation hardware versus just the meta itself. Uh there's more to deal with in computing power. And then uh the last part of that is obviously what you guys have done from the VR2 to now PC or in console overall without any limitation of the VR hardware and would kind of like want to learn more about the technical aspects of the challenges of doing that optimization. Yeah.
Yeah. So, uh, like I personally didn't didn't get into the, uh, like all the optimizations and stuff for the the

lighter hardware. Um, I I worked and focused more on like uh the player uh mechanics and the interactions and like uh, you know, weapons and and uh, combat uh, like that that sort of stuff. So I I don't know if I have a whole lot of input um to share on the hardships uh going between the two the two different platforms. Um, but what I what I can say is um you know like we originally were going for a uh like a uh simultaneous um you know console and and VR and uh and at at the time we we were really focused on like cuz like I said before too um Servios being starting out in in the VR space uh we we had never really launched a a title at the same time. Um

that that had both. So uh going uh no like knowing that we we spent a lot of uh time working on uh building out all the features uh in flat in in sorry in console and uh and uh when when we got to it like uh and we first were able to um like really see the xenomorphs in VR, that really excited us and we wanted to take that and run with it and and continue to try to build off of our our previous systems some more because being like having to maintain both on on uh you know like the timeline that we had. It's uh it's pretty it was uh it proved to be pretty difficult to um you know we we have like lots of uh like branching um ways that like the systems work because we we reuse assets but they

like at runtime we decide uh are we in the VR mode or are we in the the the console mode and uh PC console mode and Um like that's it's a lot. Oh, my lights turned off. Sorry. Um uh but uh yeah. So um so yeah, that's that's why uh you know VR first and and Evolved Edition coming soon. Um but but having been able to you know learn everything that we did in the beginning of the project um it it brought us out even stronger and and uh you know we were able to iterate and and uh make you know make make something that's really like really special and and uh this this project is my first time working on like from start seeing a project go from start to finish um and

finish few times now, you know. Uh it's it's uh it's really cool to see see all the hard work work paying off.
Yeah, absolutely. uh when it comes to the um with VR, right, with full body immersion where the player is actually controlling with head movement and in a lot of cases your hands kind of handling the gun or interacting with the world and then going uh transferring that to more flat screen uh what we're kind of used to with mouse and keyboard or even controller. Can you talk about of the of that aspect with weapons and everything that you worked on? How
Yeah, totally.
How how how did you guys wrap your head around that? Because obviously there was some give and take, you know, the cool things about VR. Now it's stripped down to making it, you know, as cool on controller and and and uh and uh and keyboard and mouse setup,

right? Um yeah. Yeah. So, uh yeah, I got a lot to say about that. Uh so like um uh since since we've we've been going at this for quite a bit of time, like it's it's like this uh our weapon system in VR is uh it's it's been a you know a continually growing and more sophisticated system that uh improves every time. And um so like so for VR and head controls and hand like all you got is the hands and the and the head and uh so like when uh when you're aiming let's say um you got uh in in in Alien Rogue Incursion VR like we we have projectiles that come out of the guns like on the precursor rifle, the shotgun, the the revolver, they're all real uh objects that fly through space.

And uh that that's, you know, just so that you feel more you feel more immersed. And like in flat screen games, you'll uh you can do neat tricks where you just do a raycast and it's not really um it's not really an object that's that's got physics and stuff. Um uh but in VR like you can you could like shoot it and look at it from all angles and it's you can't just do a raycast from your eyes or uh from the gun cuz it it just won't it won't look the same and it won't it won't feel as real. So um and then like it we do a cool trick in in VR where like when you aim down sights it's uh we have like a basically like a volume like around the gun and when you bring it up to your face, it it is aware of that and we kind of IK the gun in uh in place so that it feels like it's, you know, really

latched into your shoulder and uh we we tune down like the the spread so it feels like you're more accurate with the gun and and all these little like small things that um really help you feel that you're you're really there. And and they're all really I I call them neat little tricks because again, all you've got is you're not holding a real gun. You just only have the hand tracking. You only got the the head tracking. Um and uh and like coming back to PC console flat screen. Um your your guns on like always on the one side of the screen. And uh some games got you got you got the crosshair so you know exactly where you're going to be hitting. Uh others not so much if you if you have like less less of a HUD or something. But um basically the expectation boils down to uh you know like if I'm looking at the

center of the screen that's kind of where I'm I'm looking to hit. And going from our VR game now to Evolved Edition. Um, like I said, we have the projectiles that they're are real projectiles and uh then then you're like really depending on if you were to stay true to that original system, you're really depending on the animators to animate um the character's po like hand pose and uh to actually hit the the center of the screen. But then what if uh you know you're shooting the animators do a great job hitting the center of the screen at one point, but then you back up like 10 meters. Now you're you're uh hitting off to the left now. Um so then like now here's the time for some more neat trick uh neat cool 3D math tricks uh thanks to your mechanical engineering background. And uh you can like calculate you can

you can do that ray test and and see where on screen space uh the player is looking and modify the trajectory just slightly so that you're you're not way off all the time but you're not doing like aimbot where you're just hitting the center all the time. You still got that spread going on and you still got um recoil. Like we have a um the designers can can uh just like kind of make uh curves that adds a certain amount of IK back to the the hands that uh you know it just it it gives an all-around immersive experience and uh oh and then another thing um like in VR we've got the recoil system is similar to like what I said we have a curve um but you actually can see your arms moving so We uh this is sometimes it's a no like a a big no no in in VR where um you like take control away from

the player. Uh but if you can uh like for example like uh in something that like a like a not as experienced VR player uh we call it the VR legs like you get seasick if if you're in a cutscene and the game takes control of the camera and moves you around.
Yeah. um that that like messes up your equilibrium and and uh you know we generally shy away from stuff like that or like if you have your hand this way and then there's a cut scene that moves your arm away that that starts to like break your sense of immersion. Um but for the guns specifically like you um we do do that recoil and we do deviate the the animated hands from your real life hands. Uh, but you don't really lose your sense of immersion there because you're actively pulling the trigger and you also feel the rumble um on the controller and you're you're

like feeding in more input to the the person's, you know, like senses to explain why your your hands moving. And that's something that's really cool on VR 2 is uh um you got the head the head rumble. So, uh, like in that in in Alien Rogue Incursion VR, we've got a big shotgun recoil and we actually like rumble the head a bit for
Oh, nice.
for big impacts or like if you're getting hit um or you know like you fall like all this all these little things that you wouldn't really notice or like after the experience you wouldn't say uh oh yeah this happened, this happened, this happened. you just come go away and say, "Wow, that was really I really felt like I was in that world." And um you know coming from coming from that like going back over to flat screen um uh we made uh I made I made a little system for like um the designers to

easily for shooting for interacting for anything like uh within uh within each of these interactions they're all very anim animation driven and uh I made a I made a small little tool where you can um make make a curve on on the back end for the controller to vibrate during like the course of an animation. Um, so like firing or like you know carrying objects around or like doing certain cutscenes, the designer can just go in and uh, you know, watch the animation end to end and uh, really like you know punch it up here, leave it down here and um, and they can do that all in real time without having to go and keep continually playing to see if it felt right and then oh I wait I forget how it felt at that time. like they can just watch it and and uh and feel it out right then and there. So, um

so yeah, it's like it's it's a you got to you just got to figure out all the things that that really matter to the player in the moment and and we just we do that by like you know play testing it all the time and and uh being honest about what feels good and what doesn't you know.
Yeah. So, coming from an art background, you know, my knowledge when it comes to the recoil system, uh, maybe tracks back all the way as early as the Counter Strike days where you're trying to figure out how each gun kind of aims, right? And you shoot at a wall and you're kind of tracking the the bullet hits and the sprays basically spray pattern. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, what you're saying, I I would imagine I I guess I always thought VR with the head tracking and the the player being able to control the

gun that it would be, for whatever reason simpler because uh the um the equations, the variables are kind of like uh in their hands, right? Um, but you're you're saying that it is a lot tougher, I believe, right? Because of the different variables contain being able to look around.
I wouldn't necessarily say uh tougher. I think um I think like to your point, it's uh you're kind of right like it it is it's basically where um where your hand is pointing cuz we we basically uh
track that anyways, right?
Yeah. Yeah. we like weld the gun to your hand uh and you're tracking where the where the gun's pointing, but um it's just a bunch of little things like like uh it's it's really comes to like player intent. Like if if the player is

um you know bringing the the gun up to their face, we we can assume that the player is intending to be more precise with the with the shooting. So that's why um it's it's not it's not like hard um at at that point to um you know it's but it's not it's not um just boiling it down to this is where the hand is pointing. Let's shoot there because there's there's now a new variable of um if we just use the same recoil like before like uh you know with the precursor rifle there's a lot of recoil like if you're onehanding the gun and you just you know spray it you're going to go up like this. Uh and if we did that same recoil when you have it when you're holding it up to your face
uh it'll just go through your head and then you'll be like completely disoriented. So um
just vibrate that's it.
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
That I I didn't know VR2 had that extra f What what what extra future does VR2

has over meta? You know, that that is like the vibration that is pretty cool, pretty innovative, you know, you don't really think about much. Yeah.
Yeah. Totally. Uh we were really excited when when we found out that it was going to get head haptics. Um but yeah, they have they've got head haptics. They've got um like adaptive triggers uh like the Dual Sense has on on PS5. Um they have the
What? Can you explain the adaptive trigger? What is that?
Oh, yeah. Double sensitive. You push it further or something?
Right. So, uh it's it's uh there's there's like little motors inside of the the triggers that um you can configure them. Have Do you have you played on on PlayStation 5? I skipped this generation,
but no worries. No worries.
Um, yeah. So, uh, so like Dual Sense is really cool because, um, uh, there's, so there's adaptive

triggers which, uh, which are like you, the the player or sorry, the the developer can configure these triggers to, um, you know, like push back a little bit on
I see
on uh on your finger as you're pulling. So, it it it comes in handy for uh making the gun like in a in a shooting game, making the gun feel like you're really pulling a trigger. Like you can I see
you can push back on the figure or sorry on the on the finger until uh you get to a certain point and then it'll like release and then that's when you've got
So, it has some resistance basically.
Exactly. And there's there's different modes too, like you can do uh it's like mechanical keyboards where you can have like the constant and then it like pops and then you go through or constant force. Um
and you can you can do that for many different re uh interactions.
So you just, you know, like make make each one feel unique and uh yeah. So so

PSVR 2 has that from the Dual Sense, the the PlayStation 5 controller. Um, and another cool thing about the Dual Sense is uh it doesn't have like the old traditional um rumble motors which are uh rotational motors. They're um they're linear motors. So, uh which act very similar to like how a speaker works.
I see.
Um speakers, you know, go in and out to to make air flow so that your ears can hear it. Um, so these these motors have little weights that go up and down and uh and so something really neat is uh like audio people can you know take sound waves and make those those motors uh you know move in the same way that a speaker does. And um uh yeah, so there there's just lot there's lots of cool tech inside of the PlayStation controllers. Yeah, I I don't I think uh that gets talked up enough like the

subtle upgrades that they do over the each generation um does have like a major impact. I mean besides you see Nintendo what they're doing, right? Which is like a huge um uh marketing thing, right? every time they do something.
Uh, PlayStation doesn't really promote it as well, I think. Yeah, I mean, this is the first time I I'm kind of learning. Yeah, I mean, they've always had hapted feedback on the controllers and I remember obviously, you know, playing middle gear, you know, shout out to Middle Gear since this week is about Delta, but that you would have to like press you can press the trigger twice, you know, to do certain actions, you know, holding it and then pushing it through. Uh but it sounds like obviously they upgraded that to be giving it more uh resistance and feeling the difference as well. Uh which is awesome. Uh but yeah, going back to to what you're

saying like developing uh player controls and player uh ability to well developers abilities to control uh the recoil system uh to a certain extent and then you know transferring that experience into a into like a flat screen experience that everyone's kind of used too, right? But then at the same time,
uh bringing some of that immersiveness that the VR games, uh I think by default offer, right? So, what was when you guys were, you know, especially with the weapon system, like what Eureka moments did you guys were able to come across when you were transferring that experience over to obviously having to hit like this baseline of what shooters are for a lot of gamer experience, but also,

you know, bringing some of that down from the VR experience is like, all right, here's kind of something that we borrowed from that universe to kind of bring this up a bit. Was there anything like that that you guys were kind of toying with? Maybe if it didn't get
on the cutting, you know, get got left on the cutting floor, but anything like that?
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, so like uh I can talk about like um so in in VR like the the weapon system. Um we uh well and then back to like when we started uh we we were we were trying to figure out how to manage the players equipment. And uh you know in in in this game we have you've got you got three weapons. You have a a plasma torch that helps you get through um doors and stuff and then you have a bunch of uh gear that uh you know

like help you kind of get gather more information as you go along the way. And uh we we started out as um you know early days of the the VR you know prototyping. um how do we how do we make this easy and quick um in like high stress moments? And uh you know it it like it's kind of going in like a circle like we we thought about it and like in in shooters you you know you the triedand-rue weapon wheel um it's it's uh it's easy. It's it's something that you can you can spawn in many many games in VR do it like uh you push a button and you've got the the pie slices that show up and you can like grab grab it out. And uh we we ran with that for a while, but then as we started like developing more um implementing more and more pieces of equipment, we started to think like, okay, well now we're at like seven,

eight pie slices. That's like
that's quite you have to be pretty um you know intricate with your hand. Uh and you know fortunately the VR controls let you be intricate and stuff but
if you're if you're not looking like you you've got a xenomorph coming your way and your hand is over here. You don't want to like come or like even worse like look away and try to figure out where your hand's going to go. So, um, that was a that was a pretty big challenge that we we pretty much had new and improved iterations and going in this like crazy roller coaster all the way until um pretty much until we shipped. Uh we we ended up with um this cool like body slot system uh where you know on on the the player character's body you've got all these little holograms that um it's like they're like little pockets where you you can look down and see okay

that's there's my revolver on my hip and um you know I got I got like my motion tracker on the side and and uh grenades healing on on my wrist. And uh and like on on your arms, they they're attached to your arms, so you can like move your arm in space. And we have a we have a a really cool um cuz like we said before, it's it's just hands and just head tracking.
Yeah.
Uh so that's one of the really hard things in VR is um you know, approximating where the body is going to be. Uh, and we we do a pretty good job of like making sure the elbows like kind of match and and uh with the things that I was mentioning on the arms, they actually update with your arms as you move um in the world. And uh so that that brings it to a more immersive uh spot in VR. and um and uh you know uh trying to prove out the weapon wheel

early on in VR and not not fully deciding to go with it. Um fortunately we had a lot of that weapon wheel code uh you know made. So um you know we're like hey we we got a weapon wheel. Why not bring it back for for flat screen? So uh uh yeah like it's it's just fun. It's like it's it's cool to see how, you know, something wasn't working totally in in VR, but like you know, we we're able to can like reuse and not always build up from the ground, you know. So, uh yeah.
Yeah. That that um that's a really cool way to to, you know, go through your inventory backpack
um uh to to just look at where it's placed and kind of remember where it is and
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. VR in general. Yeah. It's just
it just turns every up to 11 when it comes to player experience. Yeah. Well, sorry. What you were saying?

Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Um I was I was going to say too like we we didn't fully do away with the like the weapon wheel concept at the end in VR 2.
Um uh like we had many many slots on the body, but also uh now that we're there were a lot fewer items like we didn't have seven pie slices anymore. We still had like the like the non-combat items the the gathering information gear. Uh they were, you know, in like uh like three or four spots around your hand and and uh you can, you know, you'll you'll always know which direction like cardinal directions. Um which is uh that makes it much easier and it's it's like a concept that we're all familiar with. So uh yeah. when it comes to um so this is kind of talking about you know I'm obviously you know I'm not expecting authority on

this subject I just want to know your opinion just because you're in this space and I'm just coming from like uh outside looking in again uh in the VR space you know it's grown so so much over the years I think the the the the main uh thing about developing for VR has always been well this is a very hardcore market right I mean it's definitely gotten so much better uh with meta kind of dedicating uh into the space uh but as a developer kind of going in now that you know there there are uh realistic things that you guys are doing from from porting VR games where it doesn't have to just live within those constraints and being able to uh bring that experience to the traditional PC market, console market, right? It it it extends that life beyond just the VR crowd, right? Are you seeing this happening more and more with uh

with uh what you guys are doing um with a lot of the Well, I mean, there's certain games that have to live in VR like beat Beat Saber. I I don't know if people want to play that with mouses, but there's a lot of like first person experiences that people would love to kind of
uh like Aliens is perfect for for that where uh
Yeah.
And do you see the VR players picking up the the PC uh console version of it as well, just to experience it differently?
Yeah, totally. I would. Yeah, I would hope I would hope so. like uh we you know we worked we worked really hard on this and and I want to clarify it's not just a port like we um you know all of all of the things that are are in it are are methodical and and like really really thought about to to uh really cater to this um flat screen PC console experience. Um, and uh I I think it's like I don't I don't think it's really

uh it's it's it's not a bad thing that um where you know like uh to go like have you know both versions. I think it's it's like a really cool thing to um to be able to you know have have an experience just depending on like what mood you're in. Um, like I I love both versions of the game personally. Uh, like uh if I if I really want to, you know, get scared, if I'm feeling in a in a spooky mood, I'll I'll toss on the the VR headset and uh, you know, get uh get get attacked from all angles and and get jump scared from behind. And um if I want like a really uh you know a really difficult and and uh challenging experience um I'll go with uh the the flat screen version cuz you know typically like um most people

are are very acquainted with how a first-person shooter is. So, um that was that was kind of like one of one of the first things that we noticed when when we were going um this new evolved edition route. Uh um they were they were like really easy to kill in the beginning like just having the the virtual reality tuning on on the xenomorphs and uh the combat team has done a great job uh figuring out how to rebalance them and and uh for each mode too. Um, I've been playing a lot on on insane mode and uh it's it's really cool to to just see how how different both of the experiences are and uh yeah, definitely I hope I hope everyone, you know, gets to experience both editions, but I I know that um like still like VR is not quite as accessible as as uh as we discussed earlier. So yeah,

that that's a I would love to for you to expand on that. So especially the combat. So the xenomorphs AI, right? Verse and being able to just uh let's call it remakeish, right? Remakeish for the the flat screen. You're saying that that if if untouched when you guys first kind of transfer that over, it was easier on the console, the PC, because players are just more confident with the with the keyboard mouse combo controller or what was it exactly
made that experience easier? Yeah.
Yeah, you can you can turn faster. You can um you can be way more precise with like where exactly you're aiming on the screen. Um, uh, it's it's brighter. That's that's one thing. Like when you're in in virtual reality, it's uh, obviously depends on your on your screen settings, but um, like just being in the space and

it's being it's like really dark. They can be lurking in shadows where uh, you can't quite see, but you can hear them. and and uh uh it's we we tune we had it tuned for you know the virtual reality experience and then once we were first getting this flat screen version off the ground um and doing our regular play tests uh we had to kind of figure out how to make make these uh make these xenomorphs like um you know really pop and And uh yeah, so lots of uh lots of combat and lots of like rebalancing how they they uh they behave and react to um what what the player's doing in in the flat screen setting.
Oh, that's interesting. I never even thought about that. Like because of the

degree of turns versus the mouse, you know, flicking at the wrist versus a full body turn
or head movement. uh that that difference. Uh
yeah. Yeah, it depends on it depends on like this the space you've got. Um some people like to play like where they fully, you know, are turning around completely. Um I personally like uh cuz I I I am I would say I'm pretty experienced at this point um having been at the company for 5 years, but I still do get uh C6 sometimes. So, I like the um uh we have like a turning mode where you snap uh 30 degrees every time. It's a lot easier on the eyes uh you know. So, um so yeah, there's like there's there's many different ways uh to to snap around and in virtual reality, but like we you like if you just crank your sensitivity up on flat screen like you can be there like 360 no scoping those those guys.

Yeah. Do you ever see the uh I know most people I mean the the data is out when it comes to uh how people prefer to play on VR basically sitting right but you ever see like the 360 treadmill ever taken off like people running around I mean I like it's it's sounds like a chore but it is I I I experienced a few times is like the coolest thing ever running around environment
you've had one or like you've you've tried it out
I tried it out before at a at a studio where they had the Ready Player One thing and you're just running around in a treadmill and
uh
Yeah, dude. I think um I those are super cool and I like I can't wait to see how how they take off. Um I I I mean I I would imagine someday like
they'll get smaller and cheaper and and uh you know, more accessible for people. Um, I think uh that that'll only make it

uh make the whole experience a lot more immersive and a way for people to have fun and like exercise, I think. Um, yeah, dude. I I love all the like the new innovations. I've seen like uh there's like vests that like will like send you little impulses uh so you can like like feel pain in the game. Uh,
it's more haptic vibrations at certain points.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or I think um Yeah. I don't know. I don't I don't want to speak too much on on
does it poke you with needles in certain parts of the
draws blood? No. Um
uh but yeah, like that that uh that vest that I've seen like I think is supported by actual some like officially supported by some games which is like crazy,
dude. It's awesome. Uh uh but yeah, like it I mean every day it's moving more and more toward a like a more real uh real virtual reality immersive

uh experience. So um yeah, dude, that's cool. You got to try out the the treadmill thing.
Yeah,
I definitely want to try one sometime.
I I think um the game industry is is all heading in that direction, right? Um I I I I can see um I live in Orange County, right? So we we have like these arcade VR arcade setup
which are doing really well. Like every time I go by it, I see a lot of kids throwing parties experiencing VR for the first time or just repeated customers. And it's um it's exciting, you know, to to be able to see people introduced um to to that sector, right? And um I can see those being kind of like the gateway for a lot of more of these gears that people would aren't as accessible, right? But like these arcade setups, uh,

like these, there's a lot of those locationbased places that were popping up where it's like
I still haven't tried it, but it's like one of those arena where you come in with a group of four and you're kind of moving through this maze, right? Which is amazing, right? as a person that's building something in VR, you can have like this predictable maze setup uh in that facility and be able to kind of build the virtual elements of it and kind of have it switch out, themed out or whatever. Um, it's it's one of those things that I'm still like waiting for it to be super mainstream because it's
like you said many times, you know, um, walking around with a thumb stick, walking around with a keyboard and mouse, obviously tried and true still works, right? But then as soon as you put the VR set and being able to walk around alone, everything just 10x the experience immediately and the more gear

you have on, right? Yeah, totally.
And I think like what you guys are doing um which I hope more and more uh VR focused games should be doing, right? Maybe not Beat Saber, but everything else uh because that that opens up more uh opportunities for developers to kind of go multiplatform.
Yeah, totally. with VR being like a great option uh and and not have to like you know just one way it every time, right?
Yeah, totally. Which is great.
And like you know pick like if you if you're someone to pick up the the flat screen um you know console version first uh you can rest assured the the experience is like and it goes both ways. uh like that that could be the the stepping stone like you said into hey may maybe I should get you know VR headset and and check it out and and feel what what it's really like cuz uh I

mean the f like I remember the first time I put on a VR headset it was at um it was at my university and we had this like sandbox where we like I think it was it was either either the Rift Oculus Rift or the the Vive HTC Vive And um I mean, dude, just thinking now like how far we've come from then. Like you had to always be facing
Yeah.
uh the the monitors because you had the little sensors in front of you.
Um and that was a that was freaking clunky, but it like just wearing it and you're like, "Whoa, dude. I'm really here." And then someone behind you says, "Time's up." And then you pull it off and you're like, "Wait, what just happened?" That's
I can't believe it. Yeah. Yeah.
Um,
just going from tethered to untethered was a big uh difference, you know, having that big like you're choking yourself in just turning around too much.
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And like um with uh Quest 3 like they they have um that you can turn on like the pass through mode and it's full color pass through and they've got some like AR games uh where I I I popped that on and and uh I was in I was still in my apartment obviously and and then all of a sudden these these cute little aliens start like busting through my walls.
Yes. And uh and then like you look through the holes and you're in you're on a different planet and you've got like a little like uh you know squirt gun. You got to catch these little aliens that are infesting your your space. It's uh it's all really cool stuff, man.
Yeah, it's uh Yeah, I played that demo too and I had my kid play it
and yeah, it's just a it's such a game changer like um that no nobody not enough people know about, right? It's like as a as a developer, it's exciting to develop for games like that because you

instantly get it, right? There's no buy in necessary aside from the hardware. So, like I really do hope more more flat screen games have a VR mode. Like if I had to like give like an order tomorrow, right, to all the industry games like you got to have a VR like that would be amazing. like especially first-person shooters, but like uh anything really should have a VR mode. Um you know, a lot of these we're seeing a lot of strategy games now, isometric mode, playing board games with even AR integration um in your living room, right?
Um
yeah.
Yeah. So that space have always been and will always be the most exciting space. Um, and I think what you guys are doing is allowing that space to uh grow, you know, being able to uh uh just open it up to to to a bigger

audience, but also um use it as a gateway to to for people to try the the VR mode and everything.
Yeah, totally.
Uh, so we are actually hitting the hour mark. I want to thank you, Ross. Yeah, that hopefully that was painless. Uh, but this
No, it was great, dude. Yeah.
So, this is the part where I actually shut up, right? Hand the mic over to you. I I think I have an idea of what you're going to say, but you This is your chance to uh promote, give attention to, special thanks.
Uh the the floor is yours. Go for it.
All right. Cool. Yeah. Thanks. Um well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. like this was a great time. And um yeah, I just want to say uh Alien Rogue Incursion Evolved Edition uh coming out uh pretty soon, September 30th. Uh it's going to be on the Epic Games Store, Steam, and PlayStation 5.

Um go go check it out. It's uh it's it's really it's like I I've been playing it this week and it's it's really turning out. I'm really enjoying it enjoying it and I hope you guys enjoy it as much as as we have been enjoying making it.
Awesome. Well, thank you, Ross. I am I'm going to try the VR mode first. Uh I I'm I'm really uh I'm a wuss when it comes to horror games, but uh but I I love what you guys did with it. It looks great. Um one last question about that before we wrap it up, right? I'm I'm guessing there was a lot of upresing on the art from uh VR to to to the flat screen, right? Because of more to work with that process alone, just to kind of give an idea to the listeners and viewers, like if I were to uh start with the VR version and then remake it into the PC, how long did it take for you guys? Was it a year after

you think to add to change to make it fit for for the flat screen for what you guys wanted to do?
Yeah, I would I would say maybe uh yeah, about a year maybe. Um uh yeah that but like we can we can get into like the reason um you know you're able to like you have so much freedom upresing for a flat screen um like game is uh in VR you you've got to be rendering for both eyes so you're rendering the entire world two times and um yeah so that right there you've got you've got a ton of a ton of costs um
and uh with, you know, with flat screen, it's always just the one uh you've got the one perspective through the screen and um
yeah, like
a lot of tricks with that, too.
Yeah, totally. Totally. Um but yeah,

like I I think uh they both they both look great. Like if if uh you're someone who's fortunate enough to to get to experience both, I I don't think you'll be disappointed e either way. So,
I don't know if you know this. What What's the difference in uh game size? I think that'll be a great indicator of like uh
uh I uh unfortunately don't know the size.
I'm used to
Yeah, I'm used to seeing my Unreal Engine uh editor files being uh extremely large and taking up my entire uh hard drive. So,
well, if you guys really want to find out, go ahead on the Steam page and download both and you'll know right away. Uh, well, thank you, Ross, for coming on. To the rest of y'all, go pick it up and see you guys next week. Thank you, Brandon. Appreciate it. [Music]