Sony Reigns in Bungie, Battlefield’s Beta Booms, Nintendo Stays Nintendo | Games For Breakfast

[Applause] [Music] Good morning, Matt.
Oh, good morning, Will.
Good morning to all of you.
Welcome to Games for Breakfast, the only internet gaming talk show we talk about this week's gaming and tech news, but that also I can assure you my shirt is neither chain mail, wet, or wearing a tank top underneath it. I just realized looking at this basically like after washing it, the dye pattern made this weird kind of like it's almost like I have a superhero suit on underneath it, but it looks it makes like the shading look weird and I just noticed it like two minutes ago. So, apologies slash you're welcome. I just wanted to clear it up.
Okay. All right.
And I can guarantee you that what I said in the opening of the show is entirely true.
Okay. I believe you. I mean, if anyone uh Brad Janet uh would like to fact check me, by all means, please do. And I will come here uh hat in hand uh and

apologize if I was misinformed or misinforming the public about this being the only show about gaming and tech news and also giving a disclaimer about the specific shirt I am wearing.
I think the odds are pretty good we're clear on that one.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Hashnotle advice. Uh, well, how are you, buddy?
I'm tired, but good. I'm tired, but
Are you tired because you, me, and Jay just slayed at night rain yesterday?
Uh, only very tangentially in part. I'm very tired because I helped my bestie move on Saturday and uh, so I borrowed my parents minivan and did Okay, I love my bestie a lot and there's a lot of other people I would pitch in for, but I kind of lowkey hope this is the last time I do this. Like
moving is tough. Like you do it for the people that you love and even when you're done you're like
God I not not ever again. Like it just

doesn't it doesn't ever feel Yeah.
Right. Well, especially because so they they got movers and the movers are actually in the process of moving the furniture like right now. Sure. Um, but uh the the bulk of the stuff, right, the non-f furniture stuff, the books, the kitchen, the everything else, me and her husband hauled five or six minivans packed to the gills full of stuff between the old place and the new place, and I am tired.
Yeah. No, it's it's it's a lot
there. I'm like covered in like weird bruises from like when I held a box in an awkward way to try and like maneuver through the, you know, the doors and places you're unfamiliar with and then you like almost drop something so you have to catch it and you're like, "Oh, that's going to hurt tomorrow." And then lo and behold, it hurts tomorrow. Yeah.
I'm like, "Here's something."
My my giant bottle of Tylenol. It's fine.
Of course. Perfect. Um, I think throughout this show to honor Will's

sacrifice and help that he did for his good friend, I think that we should, as they come up and as we think of them, give moving advice tips throughout the show. I'll start uh and this is a legit one. This isn't even a joke. Uh, in my last two moves, what I ended up doing was, and it's surprisingly it's cheaper than you'd think, um, uh, rather than get a bunch of cardboard boxes that you either have to collapse and store or just throw away and buy new cardboard boxes, there are companies and moving services that give you essentially like plastic like big bins that are that can carry more weight and, etc. that you like zip tie shut and you can just have them sort of done. Um, and then they'll drop those off at your house and pick them up. So, it's sort of like, you know, less cardboard waste and reuse, reuse, reuse. Also, um, the only the only caveat I will say about that is because you can put so much weight in them, you have to be careful and not put so much weight in them because if you're moving a bunch of books versus a bunch

of pillows and you haven't labeled them correctly, then it could it could turn sideways.
Uh, and my my related tip is dolly.
Get a dolly. Get a dolly. Like even if you are young and spry and full of machismo and think you can get no just save yourself like it also reduces the number of trips so your legs will thank you and your back will thank you because you can stack so many boxes on a dolly and then take one trip versus like walking all of those boxes and taking like three or four to get a dolly.
Uh pro tip to piggyback on that pro tip which piggybacked off of my pro tip. Listen to Dolly as you are using the dolly to move.
Obviously, no. How could one not, right? Yeah,
I like I like Lunar's tip. Here we go. Let's see if it'll play. Yep. When a friend asks me out of town,
you know, that's that's real truent based to be honest. Uh anyway,
so we're back. We we missed last week cuz Matt was at Jen Gun. We'll talk

about
We missed you.
We missed you. We'll talk about that in in a hot second. But at the top of the show, we are um obligated to uh and excited to remind you all that a Kickstarter is in progress.
That's right.
For our history happens every day 2026 calendar.
11 days left.
Uh I think you mean 11 days. No, but it's actually 10 days.
It's 10 days. Oh man,
it's 10 days left in the past. Um, and we just we are at $56,688. And and that's not the impressive part, Matt. The money is great. The thing that continues to impress me is $1,163 backers want calendars with our cool art on it to hang in their in their doiciles and remind them of the passage of time next year. So, that's pretty cool.
You So, you've talked to Jeff on stream sooner than I've talked to Jeff about this, maybe.
Yeah, sure. Will, I want to make sure I'm not letting a proverbial cat out of a literal bag. So, I need to I need to

ask you,
correct,
if the other big thing at the end of a certain stretch goal has been announced yet.
I don't believe so. He He has told me what it is, but I don't Oh, no. It is. It is. It is on the page.
It's on the page because what does it say on the page?
It says bonus goal $70,000. We're adding puzzles to the campaign and you get to vote on the art.
So, what that means, and everyone who's been here for all the streams knows Will has been running these awesome puzzles with all of you where you get to put together the art, etc. We got so inspired by that that last year and this year, that should we make that, it will be enough of a seed to actually build up a thing for basically pre-orders in this campaign. It won't like come with your thing,
right? We'll do a separate thing,
but everyone who did, even down to the $2 tier on, um, will get to vote on which of the 40,
no, uh, 20, 24, 26 different images

we've had across the two calendars will get to be made into a physical puzzle that you then can buy and will eventually be in our store.
Uh, um,
yeah. Uh, real quick, Annie got a great question. You're making calendar. How can you not know the day count? Uh, because you don't have the calendar yet. on the calendar yet.
And the other calendar is from 20 is for this year. You know what we should have done? Actually, to Annie's point, we should have I'm pointing like they can see my calendar hanging on behind my monitor so I can't see it.
Uh, we should have had the forethought to put down the launch date and the close date of how how much of a flex would that have been? It would have been a nightmare because it would have been so hard to hit.
And and we would have been wrong. We had to move the launch date this year.
I know. I know.
So, yeah, we were actually all ready to launch at a different time and then we were like, "Nope, it's this week." And we're like, "Okay, that seems good." So, yeah. No. All right. So, that's our that's our update. You can go and there are Kickstarter links everywhere in the mods and posted them in places. And if

you haven't gotten your your uh Kickstart for the calendar in, please consider doing that. Um there we did crush the $55,000 extra creator bonus stretch goal. So, the whole crew is is very appreciative of that. Um, and we're I'm super excited for the $70,000 goal. I will be I will be looking through the art and championing one of these pieces. Uh,
yeah. I I really uh Jamie loves doing puzzles and uh I I just think this art is so good and such a good like to do it actually physically on a table would be very exciting.
Yeah. All right. So, that that's that uh that that is all of our preamble. Let us now get into the news beginning with we go live now to our special Jedcon correspondent Matt.
Oh yeah, I was at Gen Con. It was pretty dope.
Yeah.
Uh what happened at Gen Con? I was out there not even in an EC capacity. Some of you who watch Thursday's stream might know this, but I uh basically went out there to uh help out James uh who is uh

designing the Cyberpunk Legends card game. We actually have a stream on uh on the credit side of things where you can watch uh me, Will, James, and Mike Ponmith, creator of Cyberpunk, talk about the onus and the creation of the card game and a bunch of other fun cyber facts. Yeah, I saw Mike uh at at Gen Con. He was he was doing great.
Um yeah, it was really fun. And basically from 4 to 900 p.m. in a uh a convention that has 70,000 plus people, uh I along with the Night Crew Games team who were uh phenomenal. Shout out to all of them. uh James' uh company that's making the game with them. Um, we play tested from 4:00 to 9:00 nearly every night there and we apparently they sold out in 19 minutes and that's why like James asked me to go out there and he got extra decks and extra play tests and stuff and we were never waiting like it it it felt so hyped and even I I can't remember if I said this to you will or chat but like you know how when you're at a con and it's overwhelming and you are tired but you scheduled a thing that you're excited about but like

your energy level is just down.
Mhm. There were a few folks that came by and like I felt like that's where they were in their day. It was like 7 o'clock. They should be eating dinner, but this was the only time they scheduled to come play this unreleased game.
And I will, this is the strength of this game. Uh I every time by the time we hit like a certain like a third through the demo, like everyone's life like like came back. Like everyone was having a really fun engaged time. And that to me again uh is the sign of a great game. It's always wonderful when your friends make something. It's even triply wonderful when they make something that's actually amazing. So, uh the that I we were just talking about Kickstarters. That Kickstarter will be I think September. So, we'll tell you all about that more when it launches.
But that was great. Got to hang out with uh Jasmine uh that bronze girl. I got to hang out with uh Sephi uh Praphanie Valentine for the first time in IRL since uh I we did our Cryptics for Christmas stream over on the Extra History channel. Uh she was nice enough

to allow me to use her Titus deck uh and play some actual magic in person, which I never get to do. Um yeah, met a bunch of really fun, cool people. It was a really, really, really good con. Uh and it was nice um after doing the episode, the animated episode launched last week, which we are very excited to be getting back to those. We have a second one coming out in roughly a month. Um about the board game industry and the problems that the board game industry is having. It was also really really lovely um to uh basically like see a celebration of that space. Like the times are difficult. There's no question. But like people were out in droves celebrating this hobby that they love and that was a really good
like alternate side of the pendulum swing for me after working on that episode. Also, uh the board game community seemed to really like the episode. Uh uh Jamie from not not my partner Jamie, but Jamie from Stonemire Games actually commented on the um on the on the episode itself, they make

Wingspan and a couple other great games about like some things that he thought we we uh got wrong and some phrasing and things like that, but then really thanked us for the for the uh overall vibe of it and like talking about what's going on. And like when you have industry heads like that also talking about it, I don't know. It all it all it was a really great weekend like culmination that didn't really I didn't plan for it to to be that way. Uh but it was and it was great and it's so nice to be I hadn't been back there in seven years. Uh and uh I suggest anyone who is able uh that that that likes board games to check it out at least at some point.
Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. All right. Uh we've got a bunch of uh video gaming industry news to to roll through. Some of it isn't actually video game news, but it does pertain to the gaming industry. So,
we will tie it kicking and screaming to the back of this uh trailer.
That That's right. We'll do that. Uh because we're moving experts. All right. Uh so, first up,
that's our next tip is tie whatever we're talking about to the back of a trailer,

right? That's Yeah, it's totally it. All right. So, okay. So, you remember when uh Tencent released the information for uh the game Light of Motor and everyone was like
Rosa and Lord of the Brochian that is Horizon Zero Dawn with the numbers filed off and by
filed off I mean they waved a file in the air above the serial numbers on Horizon Zero Dawn and then said, "Ah, good enough." Um, so yeah, it's a a like it. It's great. Perfect. Wonderful. Um, so, uh,
we got some singers today.
Yeah. Horizon Zero. That's correct. Well, Sony finally like looked at it and went, you can't do that. So, it's finally there there's finally some um some legal action going on. Sony's filing a lawsuit. The light of the most

egregious examples of uh blatant intellectual property yoinking uh have been pulled from the light of Moto um publicity package. But it will be very interesting to see how this goes. Largely because this is not this isn't like the Nintendo um uh Palmon lawsuit. This is Sony and Tencent. They're like this is two Kaiju fighting. This is like two Kaiju battling it out over intellectual property and how how similar is too similar. So I don't I don't it it will be interesting to watch them fight. Um
I don't know. I think I it's I don't think there's going to be a fight. I think they're just going to strip everything away from this thing. Like I think what what this uh Aloy is in my opinion is uh the company uh and

the their you know who knows how much even Tencent even knew about this cuz it's a subsidiary of Tencent like everything is but like uh this is testing the fences.
Yeah.
This is this is their raptors in the pen being like can we get away with this? Can we get away with this? Can we get away with this? And I think that when they get slapped down I don't think there's going to be a fight about this. I I highly doubt actually. Have we seen any actual gameplay footage of this game at all or is it just announced with a couple images? I can't remember.
Don't believe so
because I I imagine that this is not a um again I could be entirely wrong. Please prove us wrong uh here over over on Blue Sky. Um but I imagine that this is not exactly like a years in development heavy duty thing. This feels like a uh a simpler uh exhibition of of of game design. Maybe I'm wrong.

Uh Red asks a very important question. Who uh whose jurisdiction is this? Um great question. It turns out that despite it being Sony and Tencent, the lawsuit was filed in California federal court. So that's
file where you can win.
Oh yeah, right. That's a choice that was definitely made on purpose. Uh
both companies do business there. That's totally fine.
Correct. It's just very interesting to me that like of all of the places that Sony and Tencent could duke it out. California Federal Quarter is where it's going to be.
File where you're going to win, man. Like that's just
Yeah, absolutely. Um
this is what it is. Yeah. I I'm I this was coming like we we were we talked about this months ago. Um and I imagine they just getting their ducks in a row and
Yeah. And and I imagine that there will probably in order to save on lower costs, they will be like, "All right, how much of this do we have to chop out to like make you happy?" And

they've already chopped out uh this comes to us from Kotaku. They've chocked out like the words colossal machines and mechanimals. Um,
okay. But like Mechanimals sounds like the weirdest. Is it just me or does it sound like some kind of like weird breakfast cereal? Like now from Quaker it's Mechanal. Like
Yeah.
Is it just me? It might just be me, but I feel like Mechanals is like
the other side of this is the ten the the Tencent the Kotaku article continues. The Chinese conglomerate uh was uh recently sued by Sony who alleged that Tencent kept trying to license Horizon Zero Dawn for a survival crafting game and when Sony kept saying no, turned around and made it anyway. So they probably they could have even like started it and then had to change it.
Yeah. Okay. All right. No. All right. Okay. Okay. Uh, so yeah. So that's going

on. Um,
Mechanicals versus Anomorphs when um,
please and thank you. God, Anomorphs remains the children's book series that I I think about fondly the most often. Anomorph was wild, y'all.
Like it it remains. Who here's Who here's read anomorphs book?
Right. Yeah. Right. Chat, how many of you have read an anomorph's book? Show of hands, hype, or other emotes, right?
And if not, change that.
You probably should actually.
I imagine they hold up.
They do actually.
They're young adult.
Yeah, cuz cuz like the the um
Oh, chat. Oh, sweet childs.
Yeah. some of like the the core the core themes of anomorphs are very good. Um the

author remains goated. Uh and yeah, it just they're just really good. They're just really good. So instead of spending time on Light of Motor, go read anomorphs. Go get yourself some anomorphs. I just looked up I'm just curious on Goodreads what the best anamorphs book is considered right
it's the last one right
uh it looks like that's possible the
40 I want to say it's 46 books
yeah something like that uh
if I'm right by the way that's like deep brain
and delight chronicles
um man they changed the book covers I wish they were Some of them were nightmare fuel, specifically the prophecy, I think it was.
Yeah.
Um, so, uh, there is some confusion. Uh, someone asked, "Wasn't it?" Man, we're so far off topic. Wasn't made more of a

ghostritten. No. Um, Ka Applegate is a team. It's a husband and wife team. She helps.
Right. Jamie, could you co-sign?
I'm just confirming that those are the best anomorph books.
Yeah. There we go. Okay. Great.
Yeah. Right. Wonderful. Um, uh,
cosign cosigned.
Co-signed. Great. Awesome. When the goblin queen comes in to tell us that you were right. We're right. Okay, cool. Um,
how much money to buy all of them? 48 cents. No, I have no idea.
You can probably find them at a used bookstore.
Yeah.
Uh, okay. Cool. Great. Awesome. Let's I'm dragging us back on track. We're going to talk about Switch 2. So, um, there is a, uh, we got two small pieces of Switch 2 news that kind of conglomerate. All right, great. Awesome. Matt is very proud of this.
I I just pulled it directly from the Nintendo site. I don't know.
Okay, awesome. So, uh, if you are a Switch 2 owner or other, um, Switch 2

interested party, there is now a a survey that Nintendo is putting out regarding customer sentiment on the game key cards. So, if you missed this in uh, thing in brief, the game key cards don't actually contain the data for the game. They're just the license key in physical form. So, you still have to download the entire game and it isn't actually a physical copy of the game. It's just a physical copy of the license key. So, um this was done for a whole bunch of reasons, none of which particularly pertinent, but
some are some some things are good, mostly it's bad. Like I in my opinion, again, like I really do like the idea that this is a way where you can still resell your game. However, comma, but that is only doable if the Nintendo servers that host the game that license to that key are still live and therefore inevitably it will go away.
Correct. One Yeah. One of the problems

is that um especially as we're seeing the impact of things like the 3DS and Wii U shut down, the Wii shop shut down. Um it's not really great to have no access to some of these games. Now,
Lunar, great question. Great question. No one seems to be uh answering.
Uh a reminder to everyone who's not in the parts of the US that are affected by this. Huge swaths of the United States have absolutely god awful internet.
Yeah.
Um in fact, uh it didn't make the cut for a story, but probably could have if we wanted to spend a bunch of time feeling really old. Matt, do you know what shut down this week?
No. What?
AOL's dialup internet. just shut down this week, [Music] right? [Music] [Laughter]

I bet you that is more accurate like the actual timing and noises than I think it was because I heard that growing up so many times.
Uh I imagine that sound is entrenched in my brain.
Yeah. So uh you're completely correct that it is a huge issue and that you're right. So, it is important to note that uh until the this changes, when you are buying Switch 2 games, you do need to keep an eye out for whether you're buying the game on a card or a game key card. And they need to be properly labeled. Now, most my understanding is that this is like poop emoji and poo poo poo. Uh notwithstanding, they are properly labeled at the bottom with game key card. what it is and what kind of product you're purch and at a bare minimum at the absolute bare minimum that needs to happen. So um but there is also a survey that's going around and

people are generally using it to express their displeasure with this piece of technology which you know good Nintendo asked for feedback. This is the right place to do all of the feedback, right? Because
Oh, wait. Will, this just in. There is an update from 8525 at 8:11 a.m. Following an apparent outpouring of feedback from fans who hate the Switch 2's Game Key cards, Nintendo has pulled the survey. That's also from Kotaku.
Cowards. You asked.
May I said you didn't like the answer?
Coward. May I suggest buying Cyberpunk uh 2077 Ultimate Edition on the Switch 2? It comes on the card. If you can fit if Cyberpunk can fit both it and the Phantom Liberty expansion on a card and sell it for an okay amount of money, perhaps everyone else can too. Um, also I did

hear that the Mortal Kombat Legacy Collection will also be on the card, which makes me happy.
Yep. Uh, also in Oh boy, I just closed our notes like a smart person. Uh, also in our uh notes regarding Nintendo business practices, um, they have announced the price increases for uh, their product lines that are going to be going into effect um, August 3rd. So, they went into effect while we were away. Um, on some, but not all products. The big ones are uh the Switch went to 340 from 300. And these are all American dollars. The OLED went to 400 from 350. The light went to two uh 230 from 200. The Alarmo went to 110 from 100 because people are

still buying Alarmos apparently. And the Joy-Con 2 controllers went to 100 from 95. And these are all
um according to Nintendo quote based on market conditions. So this is them saying it's tariffs. Now, do you believe it's tariffs or not? That's an entirely different question. Yeah. Nintendo's stated reason for the price increase is market conditions, aka tariffs. So,
yeah. Well, it's funny. They're upping the prices of their old things, uh, which apparently are still selling fine.
Yeah.
Um, the and I imagine that the Switch 2 will go up soon, but not quite yet. This is probably the opening volley to kind of like level it out as they're trying to still get those out the door. Um, yeah. I mean, it's literally an unknown market. How could you not How could you not do this? Uh side note, uh uh Shirro uh the link to the survey is supposed to go

to a small group of users but wasn't tied to select my Nintendo accounts. The link got shared survey overwhelmed numbers of unprecedented responses. So that that makes good job. So they screwed up and got more than they asked for. Nice.
Uh also I will say uh again from from the same uh I think the game key cards is better than opening a game box and getting a download code. Agreed. Um,
better is not like two things can be true. Better and bad are not mutually exclusive,
right? And and again, no, I'm I'm in the I agree uh with that, except I do see a world where buying a physical card,
the there is more investigation than should be necessary in order to know whether or not the actual card you are buying is the game on the card or not. Because institutional knowledge would dictate that if you buy a cartridge, the game you are buying is on the cartridge. Um that is just uh again sort of institutional knowledge based on how

games have been bought since they've been sold. Um and yes it is labeled but again like the value proposition of the object is changed because it it it has more requirements asked of the consumer and uh so yeah we'll see where it goes.
Yep.
Yeah. Uh and and as for prices, uh it'll be very interesting to see how the market responds to this. Uh and by the market, I don't mean the stock market. I mean like people buying OG Switch projects. Uh and uh people were mentioning in chat, it would be interesting to see if when the tariff situation stabilizes if prices return to their previous levels. That's the big question, isn't it? Right. because that is not something that companies have historically shown a great amount of willingness to do. Right? Once consumers have adapted to a price due to weird conditions, people tend to stick or companies tend to stick with that price even if those conditions are no longer

in play. That is the way that business has historically worked. So, I will be very interested to see if that is the case or if when tariffs go away, they go, "Oh, well, the American consumer is used to paying this much, so I guess we'll just pocket the difference, right?" And like that is that is the dark side of corporations is that that is the way that they work.
Yeah. So,
yeah,
we'll see. Um
Oh, man. What's the Yeah. What is However, the original 3DS price, what what is the 3DS? Oh, are they Wait, are they still selling 3DS's?
No, they can't be. Can they?
I mean, it's the last handheld.
Well, the Switch is a handheld.
Sure.
I I'm not
I'm getting I'm getting like 230 pre-owned,
which is They can't be They can't be.
Yeah,
I love my 3DS. I think I have like two or three of them.
The 3DS with a fiery passion.

Come on.
I know. I just I can't stand it. I've tried I've tried so many times. I just hate it so much. Like I've tried to use it. Like it's not a bad system, right? By the way, it's a fine system. I just can't stand using it. Hate everything about it.
I love it.
Um
the XL is really where it's at to be perfectly honest.
I have an XL and I still hate it. Just like I've tried repeatedly to get into it and everything about the ergonomics of that thing, even with light grips and and other stuff, has just made me like Anyway, speaking of things we could be upset at Nintendo about,
we promise this is the last Nintendo story,
right? We're we're sick of doing Nintendo stories, too, but they need if they will stop screwing up in public, we'll stop needing to do Nintendo stories. Um, okay. So, there's a there's a charity speedrunner event in Japan called RTA um that's been going on for like nine

years, 10 years, a little longer. And there's they've had some legal restructuring uh of the RTA organization and the way that they raise money for charities, which is cool and good and accent because they're getting bigger and like that's a good thing. But that was the impetus that Nintendo needed to tell them that they they couldn't use Nintendo games in the charity speedrun anymore because now RTA is legally classified as a corporation under Japanese law. Now, this is again, I need to stress this because it's a weird thing. These words mean slightly different things legally speaking because this is a like this is a case that is wholly contained to Japan. RT is a Japanese filed in the state of California.
Yeah. This is this is right. So what they mean by corporation, right, is a what I believe what most of us would

probably refer to as a nonprofit here in the US, but it is a different legal classification in Japan. Okay, cool. Great. Awesome. So Nintendo said you can't do that anymore. And in fact, all of the previous times you've done it have been no nos. You can't do that. So there will be no Nintendo games featured at all at this year's RTA event. And they are now working on a individual casebycase, gameby-game basis for getting permission for future RTA events from Nintendo. Nintendo, I know you're watching
vehemently,
bro. What? It costs zero dollars to shut up and not be idiots about this. There's no positive to this. And I like I know I know the lawyers are hungry and I know they keep pulling at their leash and it gets tiring to keep holding the back, but you gain nothing from this.

There's zero gain present here.
I wonder. Okay, I have a theory because there's been so much bad press Nintendo stuff lately and uh many of it rightfully so. But I wonder if and this isn't this is by no means an ask for people to stop being mad, keep being mad. Like, you know, if they're if a company's doing something you don't like, you can be vocal about it. Absolutely. um when when there's so many stories big and small about Nintendo like I I do truly uh subscribe to the belief structure of never assign malice when incompetence is right there right like so many different disperate elements of a company we we often think of big companies as like these omnipotent beings that like should have their eye on everything uh and stuff with all like we've talked about three different things from Nintendo today, right? We've talked about uh a survey going out from

their from their honestly probably from their social their social team. We've talked about prices going out from their financial team. And we've talked about um uh licensing and IP going out for a charity thing from their from their legal team. Not every one of these teams talks to each other. That's term. But at the end of the day, it is the heads of the corporation that are in charge of running the the the playbook on all of this, right? If it seems like there's two things happening. One, doesn't seem like any part of the company's talking to any other part of the company and then they keep having small fires and then that just boosts the need for shows like ours and news outlets that are hungry for gaming news. especially like this week was last week was a pretty slow gaming week to keep pulling at things and what gets clicks people mad at Nintendo. Okay, so we're going to keep finding these small things that again Nintendo is doing it should be called out on. But I wonder if the Nintendo like because it gets clicks and

we talk about it, it becomes more in the news. Like if there's a if there's a if there's a thing if there's a
feedback loop
and then like does that cause Nintendo to double down because they're not good at taking constructive criticism? Again, this is no one's fault. I mean, it's Nintendo's fault, but like people will click on and be interested in what people will click on and want to be interested in, but like is there a way that this does exacerbate the problem? I mean, I feel like there is some amount of um holding Nintendo to account for them screwing up, right? Like there are like
But also, no one is because
Right. Because it's sales numbers,
right? Yeah. Right.
You can't really tell Nintendo what to do right now. Have you seen the Switch 2 sales numbers?
Yeah.
Right. Have you seen the Bonanza numbers? Bonanza is wildly successful.
Is it? I haven't seen.

It's the first 3D Donkey Kong game since uh 64 and it is incredibly good and incredibly popular and very wellrated and
probably selling more Switch 2, right? So like that is the unfortunate truth is that right now they are not really going to hear criticism very very well. Um, that being said, we should still give it to them even if they're not
I mean, we'll see. I'm more cur like this thing them shutting down the charity thing feels very Nintendo. It's been Nintendo forever. The price upping is actually, in my opinion, not Nintendo's fault. It is the global economy and the terrorist fault. The um and then finally the um the game key card thing is entirely Nintendo's fault. Uh it is a is a company decision uh that that plays in with how they have dealt with you owning their products for the past 15 years.

Yep. Think that's incredibly true.
Yeah. So we'll we'll keep hopefully we don't have to keep talking about it, but my my if I was a betting man and I am, I would say we're probably going to keep talking about it.
Yep.
What's next?
All right. So Sony,
see that pony down there? That's me. I am a Sony pony.
That's right. Um has admitted uh that their feray their interest
deep company tie into making a specific kind of game.
Yeah. their live service sort of ongoing continuing great Sony experiment is not going so well. Um
no they said quote not going entirely smoothly.
Right. um the

right. So the the the games that um CFO Linta mentioned in a uh shareholder Q&A as the pillars of live service for Sony are the following. Hell Divers 2 was the top of the list. Okay, that's fair.
Cool.
MLB's The Show.
Okay. Gran Turismo 7 and Destiny 2, which we'll get to slightly more in a second. So, the first one is a live service game. Sure, a thousand%. MLB is a game that I know there's microtransactions in, but you buy a new one every year, so it's not really a live service game. Like,
like there's there's some amount of like
it's a Scooby-Doo villain of a live service game.
Correct. Yes. Um, then what was the other one? Oh,
Gran Turismo 7.
I don't It's funny. I was this I I saw

F1 and I was this close to buying Gran Turismo 7 for the PSVR to capacity. It was on sale for $30 for a little bit, but like I just I had to remind myself I don't really like racing games.
Yep. It's like every time I try and buy a fighting game, I'm like I'm not good at these yet. I would have to spend so much time on these that like
Yeah. Um, but like actually does that who plays Gran Turismo 7 here in chat? Is there is there a live service component? Like I think there's like you can buy in-game currency to get parts or something. I I don't know the exact
So okay. So I guess maybe they're operating with a slightly different definition of live service games than we're used to, right? But like would you call Mario Kart a live service game? because it had a DLC pack like
No, but like but these are more than a DLC pack. This is expansions like and and in-game currencies.

Okay. So, so there's there's weeklys. Okay. So, there's some amount of live service, but it's not it I wouldn't say it's predominant when we think of live service titles.
Okay, great. Roller, do you know what the live service capacity is of Gran Turismo 7? Like is it just like you can buy is it I imagine it's like Grand Theft Auto Online where you like you can buy the money in game and do things. That's my but you could also earn that money in game. That's
that's my guess.
Sure.
Oh, I like I like uh I like Dart's zombie service games.
Yeah.
Also social calling me out all day. Mario Kart is is a racing game. It's probably the only one that I like. Mario Kart is a racing game in the same way that Mario uh that me uh sorry not me Smash is a fighting game which is to say that it has many things in commonality and is not a core of that genre.
Heart racers are different than racing games like Gran Turismo in the same way

that Smash is fundamentally different from something like Tekken.
Also Dark Wasp uh earn in GTA. Ha, very true. The the great thing about GTA and how do I say this without getting in trouble? Um, the game is about crime. I feel as though in the context of the in-game world and and using that in-game world and playing that in-game world in that in that specific uh bucket, just use that as you will. Use that as your northstar and you'll be you'll be free. Oh god. T. Okay. All right. I like two racing games. I like two racing games and that's it.
N um so
oh here we go. Roller uh sorry roller got back.
You can buy credits sort of a catch-up system but the live service is usually about racing with others ability to sell your cars to others. Interesting. So
So there's
do you sell

Okay, I'm seeing the
Yeah. So there's like there's more of it, but it's not in the same way as like um as like a larger ongoing ecosystem like an MMO or a Fortnite style or like a battle royale. So it has some elements, but it's not as I would say I feel like you could take all that away and still have Gran Turismo, but you can't take all the live service out of Fortnite and still have Fortnite,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. Um
anyway, we Okay, so now that we've defined and then we'll get to Destiny in a second, but that's that's a game that has enough expansions and microtransactions and things that it makes sense. Like that's it. In order of clarity, it goes Hell Divers 2, uh uh Destiny 2, MLB, and then Gran Turismo for me kind of.
No, that makes sense. And I think the reason they're digging so deep for that list
Yeah. glitch service games
uh is that Concord according to rumors and this is what

Kotaka is reporting on and I'm inclined to believe this cost somewhere between 200 and $400 million to produce and made back one that is 1 millions of dollars made back on Concord. So they are desperate in a shareholder meeting to be like, "Yes, we still have live service games. Look at all our live service games. Look at how much money they Please don't look at Concord. Don't look at the Concord files. Please don't look at the Concord files.
Look at all two and a half of our live service."
Right.
Yeah. Right. And I'm I'm also I'm also very much in in in line with Richard Sphere. Concord made a million dollars. Like a whole million dollars. I'm amazed. Right.
How did that not get refunded?
Uh I have no idea. It should have made zero dollars. That's true.
Weird.
Anyway, so it's the fact that they are saying in a shareholder meeting that it's not going well is a sign that it's really not going well because generally

shareholders the last people that you want to admit that things aren't going well with the money that they want you to be making for them.
Yeah. Um, so this is kind of an interesting uh problem.
I do like So this again from the Kotaku article, uh, they say they didn't paint it as all roses as the article says. They said, quote, "Of course, we recognize there are still many issues. Uh, so we should learn lessons from the from mistakes and make sure that we introduce live service content where there's less waste and is more smooth." Now, yeah. Um, and listen, I and they it seems like they're doing that with Marathon. like it seems like they want to make sure that this isn't another another um
conqu
conquered look I think the issue is and we're going to get to this in our main story where we start talking about battlefield I do believe that in every space and live service games lifestyle games which is a broad topic there's more lifestyle games than ever

and therefore and there's not an infinite number of people with an infinite number of disposable income and that number of that is of the income is going down.
So the cash cow that is a live service game might have really been a boon in like 2015 2016 and sort of like the knock-on effect on co obviously knocked it for a loop in a weird way because everyone was at home. Um, but like now in the year of some lord 2025, it's it's not going to do the same thing that you expect it to. I uh did I tell the story of running into an old executive producer friend of mine at a network event, Eric, did I talk about this in the show?
I don't think you did, but we also only have 40 seconds until ads, so do you want to
Okay, I will do the story ascredibly quickly as I possible. Eric was a great executive producer over at MTV and Viacom. And when I met him at a event, he he's like, "What are you doing these days?" And I told him I was on YouTube.

He goes, "Oh," he was saying this jokingly. He goes, "You're part of the problem." And I was like, "What do you mean?" And he goes, "There's only a set number of advertising budget, like dollars that can be spent on advertising a year." And before it was just uh network, TV, and basic cable, and extended cable, and that's where all the dollars went. Now, anyone who's good and successful that has a camera due to all of these streaming services and YouTube, etc., can take a piece, ever so small, of that amount. But because there's an infinite number of people that can do that, the advertising budget has gotten smaller for cable television and it's slowly dying. Um, and I was like, "Yeah, that's really smart and I'm sorry and I have to go check the shakurerie board." Um, he was very nice. He's was a he's a wonderful dude. He's super talented and uh we ended up uh going drinking for the rest of the night. So, it's very very fun. But
cool.
Yeah. So, uh, we're going to run we're going to do some fake ads while Twitch gets real ads. And then when we come back, we're going to talk about Destiny and why it's both the weirdest thing they put on that list and Sony's current problem child and what's probably going

to happen to Bungie as a result. So, uh, if you're new, the way that we do this is while Twitch gets some real ads for things that you can really buy if you're a subscriber over on Twitch or over on YouTube, you can get, uh, fake ads for things that you can't buy, uh, as sort of a a little sort of a little, um, improv game and also to keep y'all entertained while we keep pre-rolls off. So, Matt, would you please start us off?
Sure. [Music] Hey everyone, Matt from Extra Credits here. Say, do you ever want to wash a shirt you really like, but then realize that it changes the dye pattern on the entire thing and makes it look like you're wearing an extra swimsuit under said shirt? Well, then may I sell you never washing your clothes? That's right. Listen, there's a lot of problems that come with that specifically, and we're not going to get into that today. That's future use problem. But right now, maybe you have a shirt that possibly makes it look like you're wearing an old timey bathing suit underneath it, and you really wish it didn't, and you didn't notice it until

you were on camera. So, in those specific cases, I truly truly urge you to buy Never Washing Your Clothes Again today.
Okay, great. Awesome. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. All right. Okay. Okay. Great. Oddly, that was one of the most cognizant one of those I think I've done in a long time.
Yeah, it's correct. Nor that that had that had a higher than normal uh hinge quota.
Um Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Mhm. Okay. Uh uh
you let me know my Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Here we go. Three, two, one.
Hey there friends. Welcome credits here to sell you on the idea of don't let everything hurt. If everything hurts, Find find ways to stop it. Take hot showers. Tylenol. Also, don't move your arms. Just if it hurt, just don't don't move your arms. Just whatever. You definitely don't do this cuz it hurts a

lot cuz you can't extend your arms all the way cuz you hurt from moving. But it's also worth cuz you help someone move. And that's cool cuz you like set them up on a path to like a new happy life and a new home. But like also consider just don't move. Just don't just sit here and be pretty and just don't don't just whatever. Don't stop moving.
I think by volume,
correct?
Your fake ad was the like 27% the word don't.
Yeah, right. Just No. Don't. Like that's Yeah, right. Just don't.
Hey everyone, Matt from Extra Credits here. Have you ever just tried don't don't don't. Uh but then you might be thinking wait don't don't don't don't. But what if don't don't don't don't don't don't. But wait hold the flipping phone. What if you don't? Don't don't don't don't don't

don't don't don't don't don't. That's turning into a new kind of Pokemon.
Oh. Oh. But last brings it brings up a great question. consider. Nah.
Oh, that's a good one. No, no,
no. I'mma touch it. Don't touch it. All right, we're back from ads. So, uh, we said that we were going to talk about the exception to Sony's list of live surface games, which is, you notice how they put Destiny 2 in there. But there's a problem, chat. There's a there's a problem. Sony didn't make Destiny 2. They just own Destiny 2.
Yeah, but that's not a problem for the what they're saying in their share. Correct. I'm just also like we should also reinforce that like they only own

Destiny 2. Destiny 2 came out in 2017 and Bungie got bought three years ago,
right? The problem is not who owns Destiny 2. It's in their their plan of successful things they want to do live service with. The problem is since they acquired them, uh, it hasn't been going great.
Oh, you didn't I mean, I thought you did. I thought there was a slide for this. I'm sorry. So,
no, no, it's still the pony. It's still me.
Yeah, it's it's still the pony. So, uh they have said that the days of Bungie sort of sitting on on on an elevated platform and getting special status because they're Bungie have sort of drawn to a close. Um Again from that same call at the time of acquisition we were offering a very

independent environment. So that was one way of thinking. Tao said in response to question about Bungie's future governance. However thereafter we've gone through structural reform as we announced last year. So from this type of independence the independence is getting lighter. So Bungie is shifting into a role which is becoming more a part of PlayStation Studio and integration is also proceeding. So in the long term if you see this as an ongoing process the direction is to become part of PlayStation Studios. So I think I think that I would like to call out and again I am the pony. Please know this and take my opinion with the grain of salt lick that that it deserves. Um I think this entire thing with Bungie and Sony is a really smart move that did not pay off. So Sony acquired Bungie uh basically kind of saving them in that term and was like we want them to keep making the games that they want to do like absolutely they're we're handsoff and let them go for roughly 3 years. I also think that they

have a somewhat hands-off approach for certain projects. Like I don't know for instance Conquered how much they like how much Sony was like had their hands in it or not or if they just ignored it, expected it to be great and even then that's poor management, right? Um, so they Bungie has had three-ish years of runway and due to what they've done and due to the other things that are going on in the studio, that can't happen anymore and they are now bringing them in more for honestly to be controlled more because based on sales numbers and general acclaim, it seems like the last Bungie expansion was not wellreceived. Um, was not
it. It sounds like it needs it. And listen, Sony does a bunch of boneheaded things. Their their first party uh like Sony Studios games are nine times out of 10 fire. And that doesn't mean that you can just take a whole company and integrate it and then that whole thing

will be fine. Of course not. There's growing pains and a bunch of problems and a whole bunch a litany of other things that can go wrong. But I like that they gave Bungie based on reputation time to see if they could do it on their own.
Mhm.
It doesn't seem like they were able to and now they're going to I I think it is a smart move to move them closer into the fold. Uh even though that does bring more problems with it. Now let's I'm going to put on my tin foil hat. I'm going to put on my my uh anti-S pony hat. Is there a world where Sony set them up with unrealistic expectations, but also requirements for live service profits based on what Destiny was to maintain an ability of anonymity? This is me making stuff up on the spot right now. I'm just saying like, is there a world where part of that deal was, yeah, you're independent so long as

you're profitable? and they needed like the only way that it could be profitable would be to shoehorn in live service nonsense because that's part of what Sony's trying to offer. I I think the big problem with that is that by no account has any like by no standard has anything that Bungie's released in the past three years been moderately successful. Right. the the big problem has been that I I I would be more inclined to say that if the fans thought that the Destiny the the Destiny 2 was heading in the right direction and then Sony was like no it's not good enough. No, no one thinks Destiny 2 is heading in the right direction and it's kind of just lots of people are worried that it's just getting worse. Right.
It is. I I listen it must be Monday because I say I love Destiny and wish I could play it,
right? But it's not fun. Ghost at this point, not the ghost in Destiny, but
yeah, I want the thing that Destiny has on offer, which is like an MMO with MMO style achievement grinds and the like

with like Destiny style weapon play, but the amount of work I would have to do to like actually understand what Destiny's offering me is like too much. It's not No, I'm good. Thanks. They should, and I normally don't like doing this, they should at this point put give a long road map or say some nonsense about how long it'll run. They should just do Destiny 3. They should start over from a brand new point. If they like there, the Destiny 2 player base is shrinking. You need something. I I you need a new on-ramp and do like a true three, not like a Overwatch 2 three,
right?
Yeah.
Also,
if it is going to be free to play,
I you know, I'm going to I'm going to push back ever so slightly.

Yeah.
Destiny's Destiny 2's alltime peak was only two and a half years ago on Steam. It was 316,000 players on Steam. It's still pulling like 60,000 concurrents. So like it's a fifth of its peak, but he does still have a player base.
But here's the question.
Actually, will this is this is a great question basing Twitch metrics off of game popularity because we're going to talk about in a second Battlefield. And when the numbers are as big as that,
that I think falls into a different category. But when we're floating around 60k and we know that Destiny 2 is floundering.
Sure.
Does that say that more people are watching it be played?
No. Sorry. That was Steam DB numbers. That's actually
Oh, so they're That's Steam, not Twitch.
That's Yeah, sorry. Did I say Twitch? I'm sorry. I apologize. I might have Steam DB numbers.
The The Twitch viewership numbers are

decreasing in all metrics. Uh it's down from last week and the trend line is down. Um uh the the viewer ratio is in a bad place. The number of average viewers is down. The hours broadcast is down. Like it's not it's not improving from a Twitch metrics perspective. Right. I have a deep love for the Destiny franchise and I have not played
and I have not played that game truly like give it played played in years. Okay. Uh oh. Did we drop?
Twitch chat is saying that we dropped but I'm not seeing anything that indicates that we dropped
YouTube. Are we still there? Yeah. Grass says it's still on there
and I don't see any un Oh god, it's uh it's on Twitch because I
Oh, I this just in on YouTube Janet only fact

Twitch goes
cuz I've got according to all of Twitch monitoring metrics I am currently showing an uninterrupted stream. Hold on to be
Well, mark this time code, Will. I think this is a good chapter marker,
right? Apparently.
Well, we'll see if it comes back. Ah, FS in chat for Brad. No.
All right. Well, Matt, you keep talking and
Well, I did want to say this. I did want to say this. Um, Bungie, if you're watching, and we know you are, uh, I love Destiny with a passion, and I cannot think of another game or franchise that I love and will speak positively of that I have not played in so long. Um, that is still an active game. So what I would like to do is on our tiny tiny platform if anyone from

Bungie or anyone has a contact with anyone at Bungie wants to come on I'll invite them onto your other show will onto design club or have a chat with us here on breakfast. I would love to find out what people are actually doing and feeling over on the Destiny team especially with this news. Is it seen as a good thing? Is it seen as a bad thing? What's the plan? I want Destiny to do well. I want to champion Destiny and sadly the releases of the games over the past couple years have made it increasingly difficult to do so. So if there's any way that we can help as so long as there is good faith effort being made along those lines, I would love to hear about it and be a part of it. Uh I love that game. I just wish it was still
fun and easy to start.
Are we still Are we still dead over there? Uh, yes. Despite not showing literally any problems in any of my metrics, I literally have the backend

Twitch inspector up and I have zero unstable events and show a stable connection. So, it's
So, you're broadcasting, but Twitch is not bringing it to where it needs to go.
Twitch is acknowledging that I'm broadcasting even and then just not doing anything with it. So,
all right. Well, we should keep the show going.
Yeah, we're going to keep it going. We We'll keep We'll figure it out. It'll be fine. Uh,
my shirt was too much.
Uh, yeah, apparently. Okay, cool. Um,
Brad's invading Janet as we speak. We go live to the YouTube chat, which is now just a bunch of Brads and Janets. They're talking now. Will, we don't I don't know how long we'll last.
Correct. All right, cool. Uh, let's keep going. So, what should be a story about The Rag Ally? What should be a story about The Rag Ally is turning into a stupid story that I hate. So, the Rag Ally release date is leaked um or has leaked or a likely one has leaked, which is October 16th. Um is

is the rumor date for The Rag Ally. Now, The Rag Ally is supposed to be a really big deal, right? It's going to be a handheld Xbox platform to compete with the Steam Deck, right? It is Microsoft competing directly with the Steam Deck through this raw um piece of hardware, right? This is a cool new market break. But because the internet cannot be chill about Silkong for a second, the story is actually that because the Rag Ally came out on the 16th and they were using Silkong footage to preview the capabilities of the Rag Ally. Silkong must be coming out by October 16th, if not on October 16th when the Ally drops. So there's like two things. One, the Ally is probably coming out in October. That's kind of cool in time out in time for the holidays. sort of a good fall release schedule. I like that idea. I'm excited to see what the ally does to the to the space. And the second one is that

people have failed their be cool about silk song check and now are um uh sure 100% sure absolutely concrete 1 million% evidence that song will be out by October 16th. Right. And that's that's where we're at. Um,
I just I wanted to put on this graphic as many things that Will likes as I could think of in two minutes.
That's good.
Uh, so that's why
Yeah,
there's potatoes and also magic cards uh there as well.
Um,
yeah, it's funny. I I do like Annie's comment here. Uh, are running out of tinfoil, string, and push pins.
Correct. Now, and again, what I really want to focus on is um the idea that the Allies like actually got a firm release date this year. Um especially
they they want this out for for the holiday,
right? And I think that that's good, right? Because this like handheld

this three-way race for this handheld space switch to
that was a nice ride.
Steam Deck and um the Ally I think is good. Right. We've had sort of a lull in the handheld space. We've sort of seated a lot of that to mobile. Um, you can look at a lot of the Pokemon stuff coming out on mobile and Switch, but also on mobile. Um, and I I think this is good. Um, I'm just annoyed that lots of people were reporting it as like Silkong release date leaked. Also, the allies coming out,
right? Well, look, uh, Microsoft isn't exactly in my, uh, good graces right now. So, if they're getting their lunch eaten a little bit by this, I it's only going to help them to be perfectly honest. But, uh, if the if everyone's more excited about Silk Song than they are about The Rock than, uh, Rock and Roll, um, I think that Yeah, it's it's I'm curious

if there is, and it seems like we've moving this direction. We've been talking about the the mythical Xbox handheld for a long time. Um there there could be a world where this is sort of the way that they go. They license out Xbox as a thing that can go like Game Pass can play on this thing, etc. Also, if they if they team up with Steam and somehow get Xbox and Game Pass on Steam Decks,
uh that could be uh a huge thing. I there's no way that they don't move deeply into the space. We've talked about it a bunch of times.
Yeah. Uh, [Music] okay. Sorry, chat. I'm still trying to figure out what in the world's happening to Twitch. Uh,
but everything that you're doing is like it doesn't seem like anything, which
is why I'm checking for like the weirdest message cuz the only thing I could think of would be that we'd get banned because this is what a ban would look like. But like,
I don't know, right?
But wouldn't we get a notification?
You would think that, wouldn't you?

Is the rest of Hey, uh Janet who some who is normally Brad,
can you go on is the rest of Twitch down or other channels?
I'm working on that. Like I'm I This is the reason I have three monitors.
Morning Siri. Okay. Um
Oh yeah, ban shitty chat too. That's correct. Gladius. I don't know then. I literally don't know and I can't do anything I can't do anything about it without like completely
can't I can't do anything about it. It's It's not on my end. So if I
you show up in search and we wouldn't if we're banned.
Oh, that's true.
Uh question, Will, can you stop the Twitch stream and restart the Twitch stream without stopping the
Not without stopping both the recording and the YouTube.
All right, then we're here.
Yep. Uh I'm also gonna I'm doing a quick thing.
Other channels are okay.
It's not OBS. It's not I have no clue. So, you know what? We're just gonna

forge ahead. Okay, great. All right. Uh, next up. All right, so this is like Twitch and gaming related. So, Brennan Lee Mulligan has announced that he's giving up his prestigious career of making tiny shoes for American Girl dolls to run campaign four of Critical Role. This news dropped during Gen Con and I feel like it broke a lot of people's minds.
Yeah. So, this is great for Brennan and great for Critical Role, but I'm confused. So, okay, I am first and foremost I am excited. I've loved Brennan's stuff on everything he's done. I really really think that it's wonderful that Matt gets to play. I want as a forever DM that

never gets to play, also named Matt, I am very excited for him. Uh but the I don't I don't know how one person running this and the stuff over at uh Dimension 20 and uh you know working on other things and having a family and friends how they survive like how how this is a this is so much time right like and also the campaign 4 for those of you people who are not quitters the campaigns one two and three have been all set in the same world of uh Alexandria and like characters sometimes intermingle and all this other stuff for the past 10 years. Campaign 4 will be a new place. Um and probably Daggerheart question mark, but we'll see how it how
Yeah, they're uh the Watsi may have long-term definitely buckshot their own feet when they did that whole like the whole snafu with the OGL that like

pushed a lot of people just enough to start investigating other things that they could be doing. And Critical Role was definitely one of the things that was bringing a lot of people into Dn D.
And now they're going to be bringing a lot of people into Daggerheart and oopsie poopsie. Especially because a reminder a reminder that uh didn't they get both Crawford and Perkins?
Yes.
Right. So again, Critical Role also got Jeremy Crawford and Chris Perkins, who are two of the biggest names in Dn D design and just yonked them, right? So like Dn D not having a good day over this.
Yeah, we we'll see how this goes. I I have a cons I am excited. I will watch it. I still need to finish campaign 3. I just I I have such a I was taking apart actually Dwarf & Forge this weekend and I had it on and I was like, man, I miss this. Um, okay. I have uh concern about this and

it has nothing to do with the talent of people involved and more more concern about the very nature of human beings.
Sure.
Okay. Um, what is happening now is Brennan is becoming what essentially happened in my opinion to Pedro Pascal this year. Brennan is going to be everywhere on everything. And it's not that he doesn't deserve to be there. He absolutely does. And it's not that he's not incredibly talented and funny and likable. He's all of those things. What happens to a celebrity in a space when they are everywhere is inevitably people turn on them. It Pedro Pascal has a weird backlash for absolutely nothing because he was in three movies in a row. Uh I mean you you look no further and there granted there's there's various um isms that uh are taking place in a lot of these things too but like look at Anne Hathaway look at all these people who

get uh uh Jennifer uh Lawrence like if you look at these actors and actresses who are everywhere then all of the sudden because they're everywhere people start getting uh granted there's other issues but like the Chris Pratt effect of it all right like there's there's an element of celebrity that when you are everywhere, when you are everything everywhere all at once, not the movie, just those terms, the public does tend to weirdly generate a backlash. And I don't want that to happen. And maybe the TTRPG space is a place that it won't, and I hope it's not. Um, I that's my one concern about this entire thing. Does that make sense? like uh it's funny. Yeah. Isn't D and D a small a niche enough thing that it wouldn't be an is I I think so. But I do just because the pool of people that are knowledgeable about it like think of it

don't think of it at the size of the pool. Think at the percentage of the pool.
If one person is in 80 to 90% of the mainstream things, it's still going to have this. it could have the same effect. It's my again uh I I just I love this space. I love actual plays. I think Brennan is the easily one of if not the best DM in the space.
Um that is my one concern about this level of consolidation.
I agree. Um
I I did want to respond to one thing uh which is uh Spartan mentioned that uh D and D is too big for players to switch. Uh that's not the danger.
No,
that's not what's going on. No one's going to switch. But one of the leading ways, the one of the leading entry points for D&D because all media, all media has churn. All media has people leaving and you

need to keep a number of people coming in as people are leaving to keep the player base for whatever that game is sustainable. This is particularly visible in MMOs, live service games, uh tabletop games, war games, card games, whatever. You need enough people to play. You need a critical mass. And so the problem isn't that people are switching. The problem is that as people churn out, new people won't be churned in at the same rate. They will be directed towards Daggerheart because Critical Role, a big forward-facing part of Watsy's overall brand strategy for a while now, is directing people in a different direction because Watsi killed the Golden Goose. That's the problem.
Yeah, I I I mean the the that is exactly right. It's not like uh campaign 4 will start and everyone will stop playing D and D and play Daggerheart. This is a this is a play uh in years. This is a play like for instance like right now in in D and D spaces we are still in
I would say the very end of the if you

were psyched about it the glow of version 5.24 of the updated 2025 uh 2024 editions, right?
Yeah.
Um
I love the system. I love D and D. I think it's a great game. Uh with Perkins and Crawford gone, who knows what's going to be happening over there. uh there's no no there's no public facing path or or uh brand identity to really speak of outside of the IP itself, not the people behind it. Whereas the reason that brand and IP got repopularized was because of personalities outside of their purview.
Yeah.
Critical Role, all the uh Dungeons and Daddies, um tons of tons of actual plays, right? Um, so when talking about this sort of thing, what Will said is entirely true. The churn will be real. And if Dn D doesn't answer with something equally as exciting, that's when you start seeing it. And like, it's funny because the ubiquity of D and D is

the thing that keeps them up. I know some people in chat were saying like D and D is slowly dying anyway because there's a million different systems that do X, Y, and Z elements better than D and D does. True. The thing that D and D does is it allows it's it's a it's a melting pot and you can you can play almost any kind of game in D and D even though it won't be the best version of that game. Does that make sense? It's ubiquitous.
Oh uh serious uh why is it 5.24 rather than 5.5 or 5? That's just a colloquialism that I did. That's not what it is. Most of the books came out in 2024. It's still 5e but an update. So I just call it 5.24 for 2024. I know the Monster Manual dropped this year, but
uh so yeah, so that's where we're at with that. Uh good luck to Brandon. Interested to see what happens.
I'm so psyched to watch it. I even all of my worry aside, I think it's going to be a great show.
Yeah, I um I've sort of turned out of Critical Role. I will give this one a shot. I'll I'll I will I gave I gave

third day I gave campaign 3 a shot when they started. Uh, and I'll give this one a shot when they start this one just to just to see. Um,
also Mighty N uh, season one dropping this year
something like Yeah,
the animated. So that's that's my that's what I'm Also, this is Sorry, we're still talking about this. Uh, the thing that I'm actually very very excited about is this does give the actual core team, I think, more time to develop the animated shows and other things. I know they want to get into video games, etc. the whole cast is deep rooted in in game voice acting and and producing. So, uh I I I like that that will also be the case for that.
Yeah.
Uh okay, a quick update on Mastercard. Uh so we This is just a brief followup. So there's
I thought this image would be what gets us banned from Twitch, but apparently
Yeah. Right. 100%. It's two CDs, right? Um okay. So, uh,

it's two CDs, Matt. All right. So, we talked a little bit on the last show about the problems of payment processors demanding that platforms remove games or cut off access to the money that keeps those platforms around. So, that's been a whole thing. There's been a bunch of community action since then. people have been doing the the thing of calling and wasting so much time on payment processor helplines and uh so now now what's what's happened is sort of this interesting thing um I know itch has restored all the not safe for work freetoplay or free games um anything that doesn't require payment processing they've restored um because there's no payment processing involved you can't get upset with us we're just giving this away for free Um, so that whole thing's happened. Um, but Mastercard is now saying it wasn't it wasn't me. They're executing the shaggy defense.
The shaggy defense like zoink scoop.

No. No. Like Yeah. Well, right. Anyway, so um they they've issued like a public statement and they've said that it's not it's it's not us. We didn't do it. However, that's contradicted directly by what Valve has said. Valve has said that while Mastercard didn't directly tell them that this was what was up, intermediaries between them and Mastercard did. And all of this boils down to Mastercard rule 5.12.7.
And that's that's one of my favorite ones,
right? Yeah. Obviously, and this is Mastercard rule 5.12.7 which says a merchant must not submit its acquirer and a customer must not submit to the interchange system any transaction that is illegal comma or in the sole discretion of the corporation may damage the goodwill of the corporation or reflect negatively on the marks. The sale or product of a service, including an image which is patently offensive and lacks serious artistic values, such as by way of example and

not limitation, images of non-conexual sexual behavior, sexual exploitation of a minor, non-conexual mutilation of a person or body part and beiality or any other material that a corporation deems unacceptable to sell in connection with a mark.
So basically what what Seam has been saying is that yes, Mastercard, the grand centralized company, did not contact them. However, the people that are hired to talk for Mastercard contact them.
Correct. So, uh, basically it's still Mastercard's fault. Keep calling them. Keep calling them. Just be very nice to all the customer service representatives. Waste as much time as possible. Ask so many questions.
Be so polite and be so stupid.
It is It is not the person on the other line's fault, right?
Uh, please be nice to customer service representatives. Please, please, please. That having been said, try to make their time as much fun as you possibly can while wasting enough corporate time.
Correct.
Uh to carry
also ask to talk to their supervisor.

That always works. Just ask to talk to every supervisor. Say that you're not satisfied and you're just trying to get answers and don't accept when they tell you that you need to email them. Just keep asking questions. Yeah, it's great. Okay, cool. Um, our main story, uh, is a little bit on the shorter side this week, but it is a really big thing that's going on in the gaming world this week,
specifically outside of what I would consider Will and I's wheelhouse.
Correct. So, I'm not a big live service shooter person, and I'm definitely not a big um, modern warfare person.
Military shooter like like like um IRL type real life military shooters. I don't really vibe well with with uh modern military shooters for a whole bunch of reasons. That's not to say they're bad. They're just not my bag.
Um but the Battlefield 6 open beta has been so big and so loud and so prominent that it is cracked through into our spaces. Um we were playing Night Rain with Jay last night. We we were talking about the beta and how much fun he's

having with it. Um, it showed up in a lot of places and it's been mindbogglingly huge. So,
so real quick before we get into the story, can I just want to be sure cuz I I was having trouble finding this because again I this isn't my world. It was an open beta. You just had to sign up for it or you had to watch a Twitch stream to get a beta key. Like how did it work?
So originally there was you can get early access by watching a Twitch stream and then there was an open beta all weekend and there is an open beta all next weekend I believe.
Okay. So, this was a free experience no matter what.
Yes, you could also gain additional cosmetics by watching Twitch streams. It was like the third or fourth director on Twitch all weekend.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everybody.
So, a bunch of things about this are kind of interesting and it'll be very interesting to see. So, what one of the big things that I want to draw attention to is that the Battlefield 6 open beta has a bunch of the same inongruities that um the Switch launch does. in a really weird way, which is it's doing a lot of

things that people claim they care an awful lot about, but they're participating in it anyway, right? It's a bunch of things that people have been very vocally opposed to, but we're seeing the behavior pattern does not square up with that. Um and the um so for instance uh the beta requires secure boot which not everyone has enabled and the only way you can enable is by messing with BIOS settings. How many average consumers are willing to torque BIOS settings to play a random beta? You have to be pretty in deep for the average non-computer literate consumer to even
know how to open their BIOS. Right? Remember there are a bunch of tech nerds in chat and a bunch of you going to be like, "Oh, that's super easy." Yeah, reminder. Not the average crowd, right? There are plenty of people who like I know streamers for games like that who

don't know how to change their alerts or how to set up new scenes in OBS. Yeah. or how to troubleshoot a two- rig system or whatever because that's not something they need to do because most of the time the things that are involved in these games are fire and forget. So that's a big deal. Also, it's an anti-che thing that requires secure boot. So like it's a very low-level antiche. Again, a thing that people claim they care an awful lot about. And yet the Battlefield 6 open beta is crushing numbers. It is the um it's it passed half a million people. Uh I'm gonna pull up the Steam DB right now to make sure the
uh Battlefield 6 open beta. I should have had this open, but you know
had a bunch of tech problems.
What's the reason
the alltime peak was 521,079 players in a beta. And and hold on. I just want to put this out. I just want to put this out real quick. There are 8,300

people in the app right now and you can't play. They're just idling.
On just in case.
Yeah.
Uh question.
Yes.
Why? Why is there a secure boot? What is it supposed to do?
It's part of their anti-che.
I don't know the next part of the story that people are already cheating in it.
That's correct, Matt. It's not working, but people are still doing it, right? Like you still you have to do it to get in and cheaters are finding out ways to make it not matter, which to be very fair is good in an open beta because it means that um EA will get a shot at fixing that, right? They'll be able to see the ways that people are cheating in the open beta and be like, "Okay, cool, great. When we go to release, we need to patch these things, right?"
Yeah. So,
okay. That's true. If you're on If you're on 10 still, then yes. But
when do we have to switch over?

October.
It's not as bad as everyone says. As long as you get Windows 11 Pro, which is not that much more expensive. It's not that bad. You can rip out all the stupid. I have ripped out all the stupid. I could teach you to rip out all the stupid, too. Not you, Matt. I'm not doing tax support for all you. I'll do tax support for Matt. He's cool.
It's the shirt. It's really the shirt that's doing it.
Yeah, it's the shirt. So, um
it also weirdly does include bots to help fill lobbies. Um only in the uh training grounds playlist, but
yeah, the first 15 ranks,
right? Yeah, the first 15 ranks. It is including bots to help help you get under like your feet under you and everything else. That is probably one of the most interesting parts is that people from a design perspective including bots and low ranks is a really good idea.
Mhm.
Because it gives people more time on target without getting absolutely curb stomped by someone who has a much more

who has a much greater amount of experience in shooters in general. Right. Okay. Because without that, right, little Timmy, who got into the open beta because it was his first shooter and it's free and you know, whatever, has a chance of getting matched into Shroud's first lobby and having a terrible time.
Yeah,
because the matchmaking system doesn't know who Shroud is yet, right?
I like Adam. Be honest, the bots were harder than the actual player.
That's very reasonable. True. True. True. and real, right? So, there's all of these things and I think the most important thing is it's wildly successful and in a way that means that the next one will be more successful and the release will be hyper successful probably simply because as we were talking about with Churn when we were talking about Critical Role, ubiquity is equality, right? And if everyone is playing Battlefield 6 and

you want a shooter that's kind of like Battlefield 6, then the number of people playing means that you're more likely to jump on it because it's going to have some amount of longevity and it's going to have some amount of sticking power and it's going to have some amount some chance of having what you want.
Yeah.
So, side note, will we can keep we can stay a little bit longer. I've moved my meeting a half hour so we're good.
Okay, cool. Um Oh, I don't know we need to. I don't I don't know.
I'm just I was just double checking. Yeah, I didn't want to rush. I I think that the it's really interesting. I I will say that I am normally like not a fan. I am interested in it from a systems perspective and like looking at it. Um I don't know that it's ever going to be like my main game, right? I've I've pretty much stopped playing Rivals in favor of playing more Magic
um or playing more 14 or whatever, but like
I want to love Rivals.
I see people loving Rivals.
Like I don't have anything against rivals. It's just not something I want to play,
which makes me sad.
I don't know. I I um I think Night Rain,

to be perfectly honest, and again is my own little corner of the internet, has taken my like ah cooperative play, like that's what I do it in, right? Like um but listen, I feel like if I out of all of the military shooters, if I were to play one, Battlefield would probably be the one that I would play. Um I I don't see myself trying this one out again that they don't need me. Uh but it is really interesting to see something this big. Now I I'm curious what the like one of the comments uh from before I think it was from uh Tomato uh was saying how they do the open the opens with their friends but then they don't like buy the game. Sure.
Like obviously this is incredibly impressive to get this amount of people playing this game. It also is a giant property that's letting you play for free for a weekend. Like, that seems to make sense.
There is some amount of spectacle. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm curious. Uh I'm sure the sales

numbers will be fine. Uh I'm curious what they are. When does it drop?
Do we know?
Two weekends from now.
Okay.
Think.
Yeah. I don't know. I um I I am happy that it is as popular as it is. And I hope that uh the game uh continues to Oh, it drops in October. Thank you, Jimmy. Um
yeah, sorry. October. Sorry, I'm thinking of the next one. Yeah, the 10th of October.
So, you could probably play it on the Rag Ally.
Yeah.
Yeah. I'm sure that won't affect competitive play at all.
Yeah. Sorry. I was thinking of the next beta, which is next weekend. [Music] You're looking
anyone who who in who in uh I guess only in Janet who in YouTube chat
played uh this beta.
Some of you already answered, but I'm curious.
Just curious.
And who will be playing in the next one?

Yeah,
that that's like if if you've done it now or the hype got you and you're going to start in the next one.
Travis E says beta's good. Yeah,
last not me, but also me.
Yeah, had a blast. Good, good, good, good. Yeah, I might give it a shot, but I also think I have plans this weekend. I don't remember. I don't I don't member who can member chat.
I like ringing endorsements.
Good. Excellent. Excellent. Uh, okay, cool. And then our last story for today is a return. I make these graphics and then I forget I make them.
Yeah, that's fair.
I'm like a goldfish.
That's fair. So, the original devs of Guitar Hero left and founded a new studio, Red Octane, and that
you can you can watch our the the death

of Rock Band video on this very channel if you'd like the deep history of what has happened with rhythm games in the past and the companies breaking up and coming together and buying out and selling for a dollar and all this other stuff.
Correct. Um, and so Red Oxen was also listed as the co-developer of the original rock of the original Guitar Hero. Yeah. And sorry, I keep conflating Guitar Hero and Rockband, and that's wrong. Um, and they have announced that they've got a new game coming out.
Not a Guitar Hero game, but a new rhythm game.
A new rhythm game from the people who helped start the rhythm game phenomena. I'm interested. I'm I'm I am I I I don't know that it's for me, but I am definitely interested in seeing its emergence again and see what people do, right? Because like we have come a very long way since the OG plastic guitars on the 360 and the Wii.
Yeah.
Right.
And it was peak grass. Like I I loved

Guitar Heroin Rock Band.
Yeah.
I I got all of them up to I think three. Uh, and then because it just it was it was a great way to be social with your friends that didn't inter to be perfectly honest didn't interrupt the full flow of a party.
Yep.
Like when you when you have a uh a game even like Mario Kart or Smash or something like at a party, it can either uh splinter the event or cause too much focus. But because the act of playing these games was also playing music. Yeah. you you you're trained, I think, socially to uh go about your business if you're not involved with said music being played, but you can have fun with it. Like, it was just the perfect mix.
Yep. I agree.
Also, yeah, Mindless, great point. They made uh they Red Octane made good DDR pads. Red Octane. Uh I I I'm I'm happy to see this happening

whether or not we are in an economy that can depending on what the rhythm game is because what was the what was that rhythm game I was playing on stream for a second? It doesn't bode well that I can't remember it. It was you played it with a controller. Um well you played a DJ
Fuser
man. What was it?
Fuser.
Fuser. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I I'm trying to think of like and and if anyone's going to do it, I think it's Red Octane, but I'm curious like what like can the economy handle more plastic instruments at this point? Um so like and if not, are we just going to use controllers? And is that fun? Like it'll be it'll be interesting. We'll see how it goes.
Yep. Uh I think that's it for our stories for today. I think I think we've I think we've covered all we meant to cover. I think that's it. Yeah, I think that's a good spot. Sorry, chat. I do apologize. I know I have not been the

most present, but tech problems from a producer standpoint are one of the things that absolutely just cook my brain. Uh especially when none of the things I have and I have a I need you to understand I have a lot of things set up to help me understand what's wrong and all of them 100% of them say nothing is wrong.
Is Twitch still down for us? It's still down. It's We're still broadcasting to them, but it's a black screen. So, I'm hoping that the VOD will survive. That's my hope. That's why we're still going is that
a we'd have to segment this and the recording, but I'm also hoping that the VOD makes it even if the live isn't. So, we'll see. But, uh, we're gonna
We know how much Twitch values VODs,
right? Huh. Um, so the way this is going to work is Matt's going to lead us in our sign off and then we're going to go dark completely and I may be back later today on Twitch to do some uh Donkey Kong Bonanza. It's also possible I won't be able to go live at all, in which case I'll see you all tomorrow.
I bet you will. I have faith. But before

that, uh, let's all just say goodbye to one another, go off into the week uh, in in happiness and gaming news the same way that we do every week. Um because as you know this is a a team building exercise. We want to make sure that everyone at Games for Breakfast on the YouTube side of Janet to the Brad side that's normally on Twitch uh to the to the Rockies over on Nebula we see and hear you. Please message us on Blue Sky to say hello. Uh we want to make sure that everyone feels connected in the same way. Uh so without further ado, thank you so much for watching Games for Breakfast and always remember don't don't just Hey, [Applause] [Music]