Shenmue 3 Versus Backers | Games ReCAP Episode 022

[Music] again welcome to that episode of games recap yeah good morning guys welcome back to the show hopefully you guys can hear us now let me know in the comments if you can or can't cuz we do the raisins in the potato salad we do see the comments and thank you guys always for being our backup as we get things rolling Larry Charles here 1/2 the team Brandon Pham doing tech support on the right I'm gonna fix this camera because it's a little often I must have hit it on the way all right so what we're doing today is we try to take the biggest piece of news from the game industry from yesterday and really dive down deep into what caused it why it exists or what's what's interesting about it and I think we got a good one for today yeah that looks good I look nice and center here I'm gonna switch back come on and Brandon introduce these good folks to all the reasons why we do what we do but

how they can help us but yes if you are joining us live obviously you're on twitch TV for slash blue underscore champs and if you want to watch this later or get any footage from our previous episodes you would want to go to our youtube com4 slash blue champs if you want to support us directly you can go to a patreon comments to get any of our other shows a week early games recap is always gonna be uploaded today of but all our other shows were talking about backseat gamer a beloved by the but you can get that a week early but most specifically you can Terran gains recap into audio podcasts listen to us on your commute on the toilet anywhere that you will listen to podcasts and then one last thing if you want to just go ahead and click that subscribe button on our Twitch become a twitch prime subscriber that helps also just be involved but be

involved and so let's go to today's topic this just keeps creeping back up BAM right so we have Shenmue back in hot waters I seriously thought after Tim Sweeney said we're gonna refund all people I think that the offer is very much still on the table and it is at a point where they want those people to take the refund and leave them alone but the issue is now that anybody that was promised pre-order content backing on the Kickstarter platform won't be getting it period it's how many different ways can this get messy is is what I want to know it's like even to have epic try to step in and take a bullet for you and like take money out of their pocket to make this game a reality you know it's all calmly whatever that guy's name is yeah the

main switch this arc oh so you see what you'll be seeing how many times three times at least Shenmue 3 so from day one when the Kickstarter campaign happened it was during that period of Kickstarter where well-known developers with the the means and the funds was kind of corrupting that platform in my opinion right it was a plan for people that didn't have the access to get their games fund in any other way yeah but of course the greedy bastards saw it more as a marketing platform the natural funding exactly and free money right because there were no measures in place to check them and they took advantage of that so said Mia was on the cusp of that they were at the tail end of that where I felt when I saw the campaign for their game I was like these guys these [ __ ] they have nothing going on and if anything it was more like a just

a self gratifying but also proving to the publisher yes see there is puppy peepee wanna give us the real moneys I understand the public interest gauging right like using kicks are as a way to predetermine like sales potential that's in a sense better than a pre-order because in a pre-order your game is usually 70 to 80 percent done by the time that you started talking about announcement dates and pre-order dates and things that we're Shenmue 3 might have been a PowerPoint deck and a brief design document at the time that it goes up on Kickstarter maybe they had some early assets but definitely not 80% of the way down the track yeah but they were getting money for a game that didn't exist yet so I understand it as like wow this is a great way to really feel the pulse of if this is a good or a bad decision did we get a hundred thousand people's interest you know or do we get four thousand people's interest that's it's a valuable metric even to a top-end development it's just that getting it through Kickstarter it really hurts and kicks the soul of why Kickstarter exists it's helping the

people who can't reach or who don't have access to to basically have a platform to reach hundreds of thousands or even millions of people with their page and try to get money yeah just calm [ __ ] started is this what they do it's like you ever go to New York subway right you see the performer guy like on his guitar with this case and he's got like ten dollars in there and all of a sudden Bon Jovi is like what exactly when they open up their [ __ ] right up yeah I like the good old days where it was quality content in exchange you know donation or whatever speaking of which de bello just subscribe to us at Tier one about the Bela thank you so much for Subway sandwich in the bank yeah that's Elvis sandwich it feeds us another day twice this week each Tyson exactly thank you so much for anybody you know we would love your know your thoughts if you're on the touch strand at any point just draw you will continuously check on them but the Shenmue 3 I've been a fan of Shenmue since Jimmy one yeah right it's still to

this day is very unique because the type of RPG finding mechanic is only available in fighting games right and maybe like a like an offshoot mode and Tekken right but never really a dedicated it's mostly shooters and it's mostly if anything a lightsaber or soldier games as the next step but never a fist to fist combats to this day so Shenmue still has a lot of weight a lot of uniqueness and a lot of interest obviously to be successful yeah all right it's it's I would say its cult classic yeah but now it has an opportunity with Shenmue 3 to like really sell and really do yeah because it's modern I saw the demo and like I thought the grams were gonna get taken at least two steps further than it was but it's still better looking than Dreamcast and it Shenmue 3 exists yeah basically dust off the CD and it looks shitty right it

definitely looks shitty is you're definitely paying for a Dreamcast plus game Dreamcast Plus yeah and this is beyond it like I don't see how epic and epic is still like allowing people to be fun I think that's the best course of action right now for any backers right now and say just give just get your money back get your money back and then if you want to play it just buy it legitimately on epic story right or just walk away because at this point if you haven't gotten that feeling your boyfriend has turned his back I don't know if it's a dollar-for-dollar conversion but imagining if I a year and a half two years ago was a Kickstarter backer for Shenmue 3 right now Shenmue 3 is so close to coming out that we're talking about release platforms going through Steam or going through epic game store whatever so we're we're this close to actually getting to play the game that we paid for our X amount of months

ago yep it gives me my refund what's the likelihood that I don't actually just then go right back and just buy it on Epic Games 2 I think that's what they're betting on guys I think they're betting on people getting the refund and then probably if they have like yeah the hardcore guys obviously already spent their money on want in this game the likelihood of there's such a low percentage of people actually walking away from Shenmue altogether right so they're they're very smart because they know they will they were poly get like 60 to 70% of those people back onto that platform to buy it legitimately okay does this still count as a Sega game do you no no for them to be she started they probably have more control well I don't know about that because it was a very shady behind-the-scene thing right it wasn't like the the lead developer deciding to want it was done with a publisher already and then they went to kickstart

it I wanted to know it was I just don't want to deal with the developers man these are like the shadiest developers and it puts kickstarter already in a bad place in a further bad place like at what point does those guys over there like can you stop mentioning us period like you are dragging our name in the dirt right now Kickstarter for a game development funding is gonna become such a ghost town pretty soon I still go there to fund photography related things tech related things that I think are cool but not so much games anymore yeah so listen Reed this is pretty short right it's basically is and the spotlight for absolutely all the wrong reasons deep sea silver and the cash advance from Epic Games to become an epic store ton exclusive there's another issue that just come over the horizon that it's all the far fault a wise net that's the name of the company yeah wise net any company

that has letters only is always asking off in some way you were just talking about GTA now we're talking about wise Knight I blame it on freaking website what do you call them website squatters who buy like 50 20 there you come there's plenty of meat why every calm is just sitting out there with like we want to buy this website now three thousand dollars letter company means our scams all right period anyways the backers of the game of Kickstarter will not get the pre-order content that comes with the regular or deluxe release of the game in a comment posted on the Kickstarter update I'm surprised they're still opening the Kickstarter sorry hey guys just one you know we screwed you in another way like why is anyone checking on that platform anymore ah name of Antonio Miranda has copied there's one buddy why is not regarding season passes the child version of the game that

replies as follows we apologize for the long delay in responding your feedback is appreciated we will look into having your noted points in future updates standard and deluxe versions released through retail sales are not affiliated with the crowdfunding campaign so will not be included with backer pledges however they will be available for sale separately this is just where developers I mean backers and developers their developers are just not getting it right so the the last sentence in the next paragraph though does say that there will be something that you get for your Kickstarter or for your slacker but it's not like the deluxe the deluxe was for retail but like it says the Kickstarter version will have some Kickstarter content and the slacker version will have some slacker content so it sounds like on a technicality there at least respecting the fact that you did support them in some way yes but it's I think the people are feeling screwed because the real version like the good version the digital deluxe

version yeah is there like the $59.99 that's available on Epic Games store and that's probably what people were hoping for in general cuz the game wouldn't exist had it not been for their early level of support yeah exactly yeah and I think that is a very interesting point to talk about like there is a part of like we made this exist we made this to what it is you owe us something more than like why are we getting like the third tier version when we were the only ones around that one when you needed us the most right there is a certainty yes of course that means [ __ ] right when it comes to technicalities like this but there is a level of loyalty there that their biggest fans feel like they're being [ __ ] again and I think this is where developer on their side is not doing good PR yeah because once you turn your back on your early adopters and your hardcore fans I mean Shenmue for like how many who are

you gonna screwed for that if they're not around right what's that is like Shenmue 3 if you know the whole story of Shin with if you're a part of Shenmue 1 and 2 or shameless plug you have game paths and you've played through or are we gonna hit up game pointing to because it's available in game pass right now there's a lot to take in to like know where the story is you know what is actually going on and what events have been set up that are going to come to the penultimate conclusion in Shenmue 3 so if there's a lot if they expect that there's just this sea of new people who are gonna buy three and just be so enthralled by the story and by where everything is from day one and Shenmue 3 that's like saying start playing Kingdom Hearts at Kingdom Hearts 3 good luck like its it might be a fun experience but you're not gonna get a hundred percent satisfaction because there's so many things that are coming to conclusion in that game yeah let alone being initiated or like developed or what twist that you're not even gonna know exists what was the story again for

Jimmy one like his uncle killed his dad or something so I don't remember who killed the dad I know the dad died I thought it was Conley they're like yeah Shang Tsung looking guy yeah and you know a decent amount of martial arts and for some reason even though your parents are gone you still get allowance once a week and you go to the dojo and you just go out in the world trying to solve this mystery fun man you get yeah and you're getting better at martial arts by of fighting in yeah it's cool man there's no game like that I wish they would update the graph take the time update the graphics make it like a Shenmue reimagining but obviously they're doing fine they have epics clues they have money coming in right from all orifices for a very high level it reminds me of like a crackdown experience where like you feel decent enough like it this is a cool thing that get started as you go around the world you're collecting these combat power-ups or any things that let you do these new moves and as long as you remember the button combination is during the fight you can really will pass yeah it's it's fun it really is fun it is fun like I when I played it was

like really cool to live as Ryu and go through his adventure basically simple as character design I've probably ever seen and like super iconic as soon as you see like the the brown leather wasn't a v8 or very good he's before the C stretch those jeans bro that's like that's the that is the cosplay right there this high kicks man you won you're him but it's no surprise that the developers it's kind of like the shang tsung trader going on all right like there is something there's definitely something fishy going on they are ready to kind of just day one ready to screw over the backers type of attitudes like hey we got the marketing that we need it for this game look at how much money we got Dave won we got it funded publishers come on there is public interest give us an actual monies millions all right they're developing the game at some point maybe they're close to finishing obviously I think it's releasing you soon epic came in and only hey we would love

you on a platform Oh even more money so they I mean they should have more than enough money to go back to the few backers or their highest backers and offer the deluxe version in goodwill right you know I mean yeah like it only helps with their good press so anybody that has been on the fence myself included it's not like a day won by for me it's a maybe for me right if I start seeing positive press behind it and it actually becomes a good game it only helps them in the long run with epics you know push to market it they're gonna make more than enough money back with positive press behind them yeah it's very short-sighted for me to to see that they would screw their most you know their biggest fans yeah it's just all bad yeah it's like every weekend mission move even with epic saying hey we'll refund the money out of our own pocket

taking a chance with a lot of them maybe not purchasing it through our store right what more can epic it's like what the [ __ ] who are we dealing with who are these yeah Keyes's and making this game right now that what is going on oh well I where I kind of stand on this is like regardless of how turbulent these waters are if the Shenmue 3 game actually does come out and get released then cool I'm sorry for all the backers backs that they had to ride in order make that happen but I think that if you're looking at you spent $40 or whatever to support this game and you got some version of a complete Shenmue 3 out of it I think that that's cool enough like when you throw your money in the Kickstarter it's like a one in five chance that you're actually gonna even see the thing especially for games yeah to still get it but oh it's not because they made like a better version than the one that you think that you're supposed to get like I'm honestly just happy enough that you didn't waste the money

cut and run and just leave me hanging like the other four games that I've backed this well this puts into question crowdfunding as a whole writer was leading of that path I understand like fig yeah right is that still a thing yeah I don't hear much of it I personally haven't seen anything come across my radar but I'm very very sorry there's still every month so fig is the other platform for people who don't know yeah that allows the backers to be actual investors an actual investment that will profit from the game you're selling it's a very interesting model it was in the height of crowdfunding what kick-started really making a lot of news yeah but it's fizzling out like aside from us hearing from our guests and friends and developers having some type of donation button on their direct website I have heard nothing much about Kathlyn different games lately like

nothing great because it's always been bad news since I would imagine before that people really thought that that was an option right Kickstarter comes out as the pioneer like they're the first penguin in that area for making it easy to reach massive audiences to have an infrastructure set up to get you like funds from the community but 90% of that community is probably community that you built yourself yeah I know what I mean that you have reached you have depth through your social contacts through whatever things that you've done to earn good press and publicity there's people who already know about you and who want to support you who want to see you do well so I imagine that even if you like you go viral on Kickstarter and then it's like oh maybe it's a 50/50 or a year you've been introduced to tens of of new people you likely already have or if you're successful a huge community of people who already know about you before you launch your Kickstarter and so to then say well you know why were you paying Kickstarter their share when technically we made all the material we

made all the promises we're gonna fulfill all the promises why are we then gonna give Kickstarter like whatever that Kickstarter's cut is we can just do that ourselves and keep more money yeah so we have the audience we make the content that we're Piazza we're the way we're doing all the work yeah let's go to PayPal and hook up a donate button because PayPal just wants like 1.9 percent of the transaction or whatever the math is way low like pretty much excited the card transactions plus a PayPal 25 cents on yeah I don't know yeah and that is that is donation money as in like hey cool thank you for helping us you know there is no like oh make sure you put your tax information in so that when we sell this game we know how to get you you're like six dollars and 19 cents of revenue share mm-hmm yeah so uh going back to this let's read this season pass is not included that make sense yeah of course that's new content that you didn't pay for back then yeah like I'm not even

arguing for the developers to give the deluxe version because that is after the fact but you have to throw a bone here because you have to think about those backers first it's like what can we give them what satisfy you know what they've been dealing with us especially now like you can't keep doing this to them and expect good results I would I would make the backer version available like two weeks early you know because that is a significant amount of play time especially if any of those backers are streamers they get access to the content early and that is probably enough to make them feel special I'm guessing because it's not gonna cost them any additional money plus Shenmue 3 is a single-player game you know what I mean like you're not giving anybody an RPG head stuff in an MMO yeah so the ramifications of doing such a thing is actually not as great so you're giving the backers an opportunity to feel great like hey look yeah we know the digital deluxe whatever whatever version is going to come out to after we sent you the free code for your

Kickstarter or your slacker version so you know thank you for helping us here is something that we can do to at least let you know that we appreciate you and we just you know aren't in it all for self because there's one thing that you do when you make a move like that which is you ruin future business opportunities like once you play cards that show that like hey we helped you and you didn't care the next time you're in a position asking for help the next time they're like hey cool so let's put this game on Kickstarter and see how much public interest we can get completely skewed perspective because you might even have people who just will refuse to do it just because they knew what you did last time they don't support yeah it's so short term for them to kind of think that once your new 3 is out and we sell a good amount of copy that we're gonna be good forever right I'm sure they would want to continue the franchise as shown before or at least even if they do a remaster Shenmue 3 with a legitimate graphic update like it would create more revenue stream most

definitely don't change the design don't change it even if you even if you take Shenmue off the table just as a business right they want to continue making games they've put together a team they've made a game product Shenmue 3 or not their next move is likely gonna be to want to make another game yeah but you're you've you've tarnished the prestige you've tarnished it's not just the developers like yeah if they want to make another game like you said the only person have have been able to kind of crawl back from like almost a company bankruptcy or whatever right a company tarnished a tarnished reputation wasn't no one's no man's sky guys and it took them two years in complete silence probably working really hard to earn back the trust with an update and that now they're doing better and everybody is on their side again at a co-worker of mal Blackwell who loved that game yeah every

time I saw him play he was just enjoying himself yeah and it really took two plus years of extra development time to make it the game that they promised I and it was important for them to do that even though they sold well their second follow-up game would have been in deep [ __ ] right if they just you know shove that aside that hold all that bad press aside and just didn't fix any of the issues right why is why you be doing that should be thinking along those lines even if it's not showing me four they have a development to you now that they want to keep housing and they're obviously seeing early success they're ready if anything made their money back hopefully yeah with the epic exclusive and then all the marquee and that's gonna come with it and they're gonna sell well on the store you know it's gonna do well did that is the scariest

looking yeah I've just been staring at that guy so uh yeah they've they've set themselves up to be at least financially successful but the way in which they're making moves right now they're cannibalizing their own company's long-term stability and success opportunities yeah that's that's just what I'm seeing well they're gonna come back and give an update on when their trial Oh will you wake up the demo the demo concerning updates a trial version basically a little piece of the game that's cool so one thing I want to point out this I'm reading the article right now playing devil's advocate Kickstarter backers weren't promised the season pass this is an opinion piece I don't care about your opinion just give us facts goddamn I don't want to give an opinion on Inception all right so I think that's the end of that article but yeah like

Shenmue is probably one of the aside from star citizen which is the biggest culprit of a crowdfunding game that's never coming out all right but somehow they keep that base satisfied enough where they can get away with it Shenmue I would have to say would be the next game that has the huge name behind it and is constantly in the press right and do you agree is there another game behind star citizen that is a backer game that was receiving this type of attention that are been the only one that I could think of that ever got this level it's not behind them as in like it also is gonna be coming out but was the Mega Man Kickstarter remember the Mega Man oh no what was it mighty number 9 it was like with Kaiji yeah it was like if you had the Mega Man team he had Mega Man inspiration but it was like a spiritual successor for modern Mega Man and they call I think it

was called mighty number 9 yeah yeah you're right mighty number 9 they were like the best example of where I was like hey big promises made and then oh snap it doesn't look like it's happening oh it's still happening oh the game kid oh okay alright he did come out ready to come out but it didn't he didn't live it was like I'll just say it was quite a ride as a backer that's quite a ride the updates the things that you were told how things were rolled out is very I'm getting deja vu right now basically because I was a backer of mighty number well this is how this is how big develop we talked I don't know we talked about this on our podcast but we discussed this on games recap that model got so tarnished the crowdfunding with big publishers big games coming onto that platform it completely ruined it for everybody else especially small-time developers because it it skew a skewed a skewed the

perspective of how much money it takes to actually make a game yeah it's like what I can get these big-time developers working on basically a Mega Man triple-a game for how much $65,000 to finance this game how much are you asking a hundred where who are you what game are you making a top-down 2d pixel game it's like why is yours costing a lot more than this 3d esque with a huge name behind it like that doesn't make any sense I'm not gonna back you yeah it create a paradigm an unrealistic patien of how much it actually takes to make games and these guys you know had publisher money going into the Kickstarter campaign asked just enough they got fun did within a day I think they ended up making two or three times as much if they asked I'll look it up actually if I were to review this right to try to actually help in D level developers and this even might be too

small but I would do something like this I'll start a website called 100k away yeah literally you can make you can finance or fund any project up to a hundred thousand dollars you can never ask for more than a hundred thousand dollars because what that does is that creates a filter where I couldn't imagine any big publisher being super excited about the opportunity to make just a hundred thousand dollars but I can think of a ton of indie teens or small-time people who are literally a hundred K away like the my dreams are on the other side of a budget between zero and a hundred thousand dollars I bet you there's a little photographers musicians game developers authors cinematographers all these industries were like it's still his mom and pop or like independent artist level alright our probably would be like excited about a platform like that so that's what I would do I would start a site 100k away bro oh my god being the number is just depressed depressed me more so this is so sixty over over seventy thousand backers basically funded this game right

this was in 2015 when they announced man it has it been four years yeah that's crazy 2015 oh yeah so it's been four years since they announced this time flies right they asked for two million dollars as they're going it's actually a respectable for this title Shenmue 3 yeah yeah bad for the heck for those graphics bro two million dollars is very that's that's basically so if I were to yeah if I were to really let's say a two year game right for those type of graphics that type of RPG a Dreamcast type of game two million dollars and let's say we're being very modest everyone 100 K right you're paying for ten developers for two years for with those graphics yeah I can that is a bit small right let's be honest she meant team is basically a fifty ten minutes

type of game that big with that many overlapping systems animations voice acting sixteen all the combats the Dreamcast there was a I mean that game when it came out was like I think like seventy million dollars for the Dreamcast Shenmue 3 I can't name any other 70 million dollar game at that time it took them 70 million dollars to make that is really hard that time because that was a headline on itself it took a lot of money to make that game that's why there wasn't a Shenmue 3 just so many red flags it's like you this is a team that's probably all new right maybe some people that work on Shenmue is continuously work on this but the head developer obviously is just a guy who doesn't know the budget things and is over always for over-promising which makes it creates an environment for the workplace to probably crunch right and to deliver right a 70 million dollar game back in those days is insane dude and and so they asked for 2 million

which you know is already bad budgeting they ended up you want to guess how much they ended up with I think 6 yeah six point three million dollars six point some of this is still it's still up there the wound is still fresh yeah six point three million dollars for this game dude [ __ ] man so they got you know a little bit more than they were asking for but I would still say like six million dollars for Shenmue 3 if I was doing the whole budget I think that's still under right it's still under but to have only asked for two in the c6 for all the reasons why they would have won and they had published you're backing away and now they have epic money dude they are easily crossing like 15 mil to 20 million for the funding of this game a red D green light plus obviously they have all the assets from the other two games they were it's basically this it's it's

basically it's like I saw the graphics it's it's mostly designers and yes sure you might have like a couple you can mark guys in there like fumbling around - that's the great thing about a modern engine is like you can just take art but if the lighting if you have subsurface scattering if you have you know all these new like lighting technique and still I'm sure you have to set up some of the art to be able to take advantage with it like yeah are and things like that I'll be surprised if that the actually the amount of work that is needed would be if they switched engines to transfer all that [ __ ] if they kept with whatever they had before and just updated it that would have been all lost more a lot more cost-effective because there's no reason to bring those shitty props into a new engine to light a light a turd did there's no reason to to do that you get puppet mouth again we're just like the bottom teeth move when they talk yeah so we said yeah if we

were to make a Shenmue game it would take a lot more money than 6.3 but if you had six point three to work with right that's how they should have thought about things but we're not there they're not in the news about like overspending which they are probably right right now knowing the history with them they're in the news because the the loyalty that the fans that prop them to where they are is kind of just being shot in the kneecaps right now repeatedly repeatedly shot him in II guess it sucks what don't worry people remember man especially these days when the Internet makes it super easy to remember yeah Kevin Hart still apologizing for all tweets but like yeah it makes me makes people on the fence like myself he knows a little bit what's going on don't want to support that yeah I don't want to support that at all which is again even though epic is doing their best

they're getting collateral damage from the press by by support a developer team that doesn't support their backers it just sounds all types of bad news and it again paints crowdfunding in a bad light like news like this Shenmue megaman star citizen repeatedly just telling people not to give money to developers that needed don't support directly to your developers I had a really interesting conversation with two fans of star citizen recently I was meeting up with some friends and game developers and I was like just like a party of people from different industries but there's these two guys one was it well they are a team of music producers and they were talking to me about like oh man star citizen it's a great game like I'm in love with it like i like i want star citizen to succeed because they delivered on their promises

and so like internally I'm like are you [ __ ] friends and their music they're both musicians and they work together on like different types of music they're starting their own production studio but I'm intrigued now by this position cuz I had never heard it so like okay I need it it makes sense I need to dig deep I want to hear what you have to say they're like well sure they sell like really expensive ships and like you can buy this and that but like I had the ships and like I'm playing it and I'm doing this I'm doing that and there's like Derek's playing I was like are you drinking the kool-aid are you like really enjoying yourself so I just kept asking the more and more questions and these guys it didn't matter what I had to say they legitimately individually both really enjoyed what they've got from star citizen they feel like their money was well spent and they're excited about new features that are coming down the way or coming down the pipe for star citizen so I was I was just so shocked because I had already written it off as like even though my friends worked on the game and I'm glad that my friends had jobs yeah I was like man this seems like the biggest like digital Ponzi's yeah to hear people would like no Larry you don't understand

like I I had the biggest ship and I all my friends joined my ship and we all played together and we did this and we did that and I was just like and then they added like all this new stuff and it's like three games in one and I was like yeah that's the problem because it's not one game in one thank you not a game but no they wouldn't let me they wouldn't let me dissuade them so I was it makes there's a reason why certain tenuously making millions every month yeah there's is a huge niche community that still believes in the product and it's like any of us that is in a hole at the casino like if you are so deep and there's no way to look back you have to really buy into it fully without feeling like an idiot no one likes feeling scammed it's like you're down to until you're hitting rock bottom right it's literally that so it's more defending there are 500 left and you think with that 500 you're gonna

make 4000 yeah that's what yeah that's done yeah yeah so you're so far on the other side of the spectrum Larry over here cannot convince them to come and say you wasted not just the money but the time the last four years supporting a game that's never gonna be done there's there's no reason for those type of games to be done the funny thing though is they brought up a point they're like well we're tired of Triple A games costing 60 bucks and not being done right and they're like if you go and buy any modern game you're gonna get day one passed you're gonna play it it might not even be a complete game how does that make any sense no well it does make sense what was a fuck-shit the the destiny clone game that did horribly anthem they use that as one of the examples of like you're expected to buy a Nazi bucks and you get an income that is a so that's that's what they brought up sorry I'm listen but that's a jaded example I'll use the same example I say all right let's say that anthem you paid $60 you gave you I gave you the game and

you're like what the [ __ ] it's not done I was like hold on give me another $60 and I'll start finishing it and then another Suzy does that's what star citizen is what are you talking about that's exactly instead of spending $60 and saying yes you've been screwed you are now in the hole or $2,000 because you paid for anthem 20 times that's because just because I said it's not done yet like I acknowledge it's not done yeah of course it's not done it's the biggest game of all time it's never been done before you are on our ship pioneering this new venture with us and we're gonna forge new crap it sounds like very interesting thank you now if you donate this month it will help us get more done in a few minutes yeah that's a haven't changed my stance on it I'm still not a fan of the game I don't play I'm not probably gonna buy in but if I'll say this if people

who have bought in are legitimately enjoying themselves and I'm very happy for you dodged a rocket let alone a bullet you're writing the rocket at that point but yeah this is the saddest thing about the Shenmue Fiasco for me is that the big developers again found a way to screw and really burn down an avenue for the smaller developers it used to be a place it was it had a lot of hope Double Fine were the one of the first that process of million dollars in funding I'll [ __ ] you know people who have an idea can actually directly connect with people on a platform it was really exciting that first year right when it really made big news it's so sad that you know and Kickstarter sure should have done something at that point it's like you're a big time developer alright do you have a publishing deal there should have been more of a vetting process at that point where it was like

the opposite of qualification it's like yeah that's like yeah how many games you have a new your villa who are you are you still employed Yeah right do you have a publishing deal on this game oh you can't qualify for this you just can't I'm sorry it's gonna ruin five years down in our line what kiss started would mean like if they had none of those bad deals happening those big greedy bastards that are like under budgeting over-promising right Kickstarter would have been a way bigger platform right now yeah like in my mind I it would have been the perfect place for anybody like us to go on there and have a legitimate chance of getting funded and and and having a huge level of support and and positive energy going into it it's completely gone now it's destroyed itself like Kickstarter those guys are idiots for not seeing this being a problem I'll say just for at least the gaming sector I think all the other sectors are still strong the the tech the like small-time inventor the artists

the musicians I think are still finding success on Kickstarter yeah but they're asking for like 20 grand and they're giving you like a $9 product and they're only asking you for $5 so you know what I mean yeah well at least the musicians the tech guys are still like a $300 for this new tripod that does that heats your coffee and charges you so it's still doing one the other engines man there's still a lot of other things that are like successful on Kickstarter but most likely that's probably why their attention is like whatever the game is just yeah it's fizzling out it was a huge I mean it was it was a huge border of their platform it was huge it was a good percentage of the gaming sector helped Kickstarter become solidified as like a legit believable platform because of the virality of a lot of the projects from the gaming sector yeah I can say that 100% if you get three million four million six million dollars worth of contributions coming from people I know a lot of those especially like from the double fine to the obsidian one or not that would not have seen who did it was it an obsidian Kickstarter yeah the

before I'm sitting with the fig they were on Kickstarter for [ __ ] what the hell I should know that it named this damn game there's number two pillars of eternity too right wasn't that I think that was Kickstarter or another original pillars of eternity no no pillars of eternity one was on Kickstarter and that was after the double fine game and I think like from Double Fine pillars of eternity and then there was another game that did like gangbusters on Kickstarter so many new people found out about Kickstarter yeah yeah I mean the nerd culture at the nerd and geeks are that's their that's their lane right yeah I mean we would shell out thousands and thousands for action figures and just like novelty things so of course when there's a platform that allows you as a promise you know I think that core group is very good with spending their money and it's um it's sad that he started guys and business people over there

didn't see that as like a blossoming huge important sector of their business and didn't step in and start like vetting a lot of the bigger developers coming on to that platform and ruining it it's it's just so sad I mean do you see any any way for them to kind of earn the trust back do you see any good PR coming back from that yeah this kickstart for games like is that ever is that like just a dead horse now I think Kickstarter for games could still work if they you know took it seriously enough to actually try to solve the problems that were created through the exploitation of their platform yeah if they put resources behind it try to rebrand and identify it like literally curate the first maybe four or five or six projects and then actually add in extra boost for marketing I think they could make a second attempt at like hey we're doing it right now look at these five projects yeah if they come out like that and say a Kickstarter for games program like a dedicated program this is this is just

like our gaming initiative right I think that'd be huge like because there's still very few resources out there I know people are doing patreon but even patreon doesn't it's not very clear right there's really nothing else still for people who want it fun there's IndieGoGo yeah but any good goes beyond just games as well right it's everything else IndieGoGo well I can't verify but I think IndieGoGo is just an alternative it's just another way to do crowdfunding and GoFundMe another way to do good thing about yeah I never hear anything bad about and you might never hear anything big from IndieGoGo yeah that to a lot a lot of people are going over there and again if any really savvy awesome web developers are out there and you want to help us make 100k away hit that doughnut but yeah all right a way we'll solve all these problems pretty much so that let me throw up some music

okay and then I'm gonna start taking away so this is of course we're nearing that hour for anybody who's joining us we are of course Brandon fan and Larry Charles were here at 10:00 a.m. every morning for games we can't we take the biggest news and give you a game developers perspective on those news you can join us obviously I'll continue to join us on our twitch TV force let's blue underscore chance we do chat with the audience we want your opinions as we are discussing topics if you are watching this later obviously you're watching this on our YouTube calm forward slash blue champs if you want support directly you can go to our patreon.com forward slash blue champs to make games recap a daily audio podcasts where you can listen to on your commute or anywhere else that you listen to podcasts for if you want to just

click on that subscribe button under a twitch account that will go to us as well we like that as well so balls stay in touch especially in the comments again shout out to everybody in the switch comments who always lets us know if there's any sort of minor issue and tech problem to immediately help us save the show from the bottom of our hearts we appreciate you very much and just thanks for spending two hours with us every day in the morning yes what speaking of comes two hours all right if you are keeping count we are ending our first hour and we are starting our next hour very soon with our game school online show we do have an awesome guest Jonathan Holmes who works for quick so to give us like a demo like great environment art demo so it's tune in in about five minutes and watch that you don't want to miss it seriously alright guys thanks for watching and consider selves recant you

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