Pirates Killed G2A | Games ReCAP Episode 019

[Music] what's up everybody welcome to another episode of games recap hey good morning everybody glad to be here glad to have you with us it feels just a second ago we were just doing this but deja vu this is Brandon fan I'm Larry Charles and we bring daily news from a game developers perspective every morning at 10 a.m. Pacific time if you're watching this live thank you if you want to interact with us in the future go to our twitch.tv forward slash blue underscore champs and if you are watching any second in this and you're like did I miss another second you can go to our YouTube comp forward slash blue champs to catch any of our previous episodes if you want to sports directly go to our patreon com4 slash blue champs to get these these as our next goal as a game audio podcast so you can listen to us on

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all right so Dane tain and John Thornton we're gonna I'm gonna make sure that I bring breakfast while we do this yeah is it cool thank you guys yeah no we're gonna eat that sub tomorrow from end to end all right so let's let's go over today's topic four people are finally joining us right now okay so let me flash that up real quick to blame them pirates kill g2a all right so goda Larry can Larry's cams gonna give you a synopsis so over the weekend we found this article where they were kind of drilling down a little deeper into what's been going on with you today and their relationship with the indie dev community right now and all the sparks and fireworks flying this weekend weren't all from fourth of July there's been a lot of hot Twitter debating going back and forth andis taking their stand g2a trying to explain their side of it and it all boils down to being about gray market game codes now Brennen can you tell the good people a little bit about gray market game codes because I'm

not one to to meddle in these areas but I heard you know someone who knows someone I know someone that is filth right so basically these are codes that are generated usually through a developer but somehow the pirate errs would buy these at a discount or something or get ahold of them and would basically scalp them and give it to anybody at the lower price so none of this money it's different from a steam sells obviously because that money goes back to developers at least 70% of it this goes directly to a third party non affiliate yeah and that's it's disgusting and so from what I've read the popular way is you like get fraudulent credit information credit card information to purchase the codes yeah and before the bank can actually figure out what the hell decoded tireder already has 500 codes they then sell at a significant discount yeah but according to the developer they sold 500 copies so they don't pursue anything yet yeah and then the scalper is hoping that

they've moved the fraudulent keys before a stop payment or whatever bacon occurs this is some digital spy [ __ ] people people jeetu a gets a cut yes if it's sold on their site they're like sweet a sale someone bought a legitimate key right let me get like the service five to ten percent yes so that is a man how they they've been around for a long time so going back to the books imagine how much of that is like black market [ __ ] yeah I mean that's a headache that's a lot and I guess where I feel bad is like from the service provider standpoint they're like hey I mean we didn't know that they're fraudulent somebody came with valid keys and we resold them yeah that's why we set this up you know to be able to offer like another way to buy your games to distribute your games like we get it I understand but there is a flaw in the system and clearly you got to have a better response than the response that the indie community thinks that they have yeah and the indie community is

like wrote royally pissed yeah well to the point of saying just freaking pirate our game if you're gonna buy it off a GTA right we encourage you to pirate our game yeah if you were going to go to g2a to buy it and that just blows my mind yeah because if you're going to GTA you are like legitimately trying to purchase the game yeah so the indie devs should be like oh thank you that's gonna get but yeah don't yeah [ __ ] yeah it's a weird way to screw someone for sure let's look at this article for more details so this is the article that we're mostly referencing from theirs so this is the news right basically I think we mentioned this before if you're ready doing this you know it's filthy but to do this to any developer that every cent literally counts ah that's even disgusting I mean these games are ranging probably twenty books max or thirty bucks when it's really high quality and you know if you can't wait for steam cells

to get these prices right and then have to go the GT to a to get it now but at a crazy discount like it's not a sustainable model for well first of all supporting you to developers that you like if these are the games that you're willing to kind of put your internet IP out there and to download like a yeah at least try to support him remember we worked in LA and they would be like the street performers like the guy with his guitar yeah and it's like guitar cases like maybe $15 yeah and he's like hey buy my CD right here it's ten bucks yeah as I play in his ass off like really old people like cheering but not buying it yeah - subway stops down the shady guy who's like hey I got that guy's CD taste yeah that's that's what you do if you didn't mean that's what you do it you're the hard-working guy trying to pay his rent yeah playing guitar now is not getting any cent out of those $2 GM deals from the trench coat yeah and what's worse is the Internet so it's literally you're standing across

from this guy sculpting is if I click away guys well I bet you the devs right like they go to g2a and they're like oh you know 280 coffee soul yeah yeah yeah pretty much so like what started as a tweet from no more robots founder a former chemistry editor Mike Rose Oh micros we're actually having them all nice yes micros is gonna be one of our guests in a couple weeks yes we can talk about this as power to change snark at Titian for Kira's elegy to remove indie games from its platform first of all have you ever done anything changed org petitions do they work work or they just create enough noise it feels nice the closest I've seen one was like something related to the White House and then they're like oh we will consider it or something like that but I mean I don't even remember if the Mass Effect 3 ending was a change.org petition I'm sure it was and then they changed their ending so I guess that's the one success case I could think of but it feels great to see like oh this

how this how much support something has and so if anything it's it's like soft collective bargaining yeah because the person or the people behind whatever thing you're petitioning see how many people are like Adam it for and the change yeah so and it creates enough references for articles to create buzz and maybe someone that has power the PR damage that you absorb when you see like a petition so that's sent the rest of power million times and sign 500,000 times I see that's what you're like that's the power right there yeah because no one's like really legislating it is not like change go yeah yeah oh yeah so that's that's what that's the line okay okay thanks for clearing that up from like mall security it is yeah that so change out or to he reseller GT remove indie games from its platform while all indie games I lengthy back and forth between the company and game makers about this

effect on Indies together so g2a doesn't work with indie developers to put their game on a platform it's just whoever puts it up I guess it's because of the reselling and how they're allowing people to upload keys and those keys end up being fraudulent no it's more screwing the indie developers but the developer can upload like legit erroneous and then sell it through g2a right so as a platform it does work technically like in theory it works it's just that there is this one specific part of the system that has a flaw which is because of if they were to validate a key that would be literally than like putting the key in yep we can download the game now but now you can't reuse that kind there's no way to repackage that Exe so there's not enough Athan occasion on GTA's part to exact to moderate that okay well i just the the way that keys are exchanged in general i think is just too risky and because of this like gray market area i feel like that's why indie

devs are like getting pissed about is because GTA even though it's a service and it's a platform and it means well mmm-hmm it is creating an avenue for indie devs to lose money that they should be getting right it's just another way that pirates are winning over indie devs or even big dose yeah yeah ok so let's look at this real quick as a kickoff chapter ROS tweeted about sponsor ads for the no more robots published game descenders was playing is resold mammal it's good that we can actually grill him on this is a case publisher and developer rage squid would see a portion of that portion purchase your physician that people would pirate a game rather than make purchase from GTA something so developers have said their own gains so micros to give some context we're having him on on or other pumpkins their village a game Devon chain which is available on audio at any point what we're saying right now and at the beginning we do have a lot of fans from other shows watching games recap but

we're at a point where there people discovering us not knowing where and actually complain that we're like bullying against any devices literally go to videos down is like this is all we're about but anyways Mike Rose wrote the reason why we had him invited him on to gain Devon change show is because he went pretty viral a few years back from a game developer conference talk on how how the steam store is irrelevant now for any developers it's super hard to market it's super hard to sell right it's not what it used to be any was able to break it down in charts on realistically what our indie developers it actually makes their money back and it's it's like blo percentile 5% of indie developers actually make their money back and even lower that actually makes a profit so that's like over 95% of developers completely screwed but we

kind of know that right but he's coming on to talk about that but it's great to kind of see him in this article just just [ __ ] on people let's see tweets on the hundreds where the point includes both developers and echoing roses concern published its own lengthy blog post while he started a revolution and the common belief that the storefront benefits from illegitimately contain keys often at the detriment of game developers bottom line and short GTA asserts that it works with developers to remove keys that does believe shouldn't be on its Marketplace and says it offers a program called GTA direct that allows devs to get a cut of third-party sells you know that's good that's a good step as better than nothing better than the nothing beyond that it says that only 8% of the game sold on GTA are indie titles - because that's about big Chum I have a problem with that because that's very misleading yeah are we talking eight percent of a hundred thousand dollars in revenue are

we talking eight percent out of 10 million 20 million in revenue yeah that 8 percent means a lot more depending on how big the pool was that's a still big chunk it is a big chunk yeah it's more than zero yeah so I'd be upset you know especially if you see like how many high-volume games go through there and if there's a way that you can actually track the sales and seeing these products right if you can estimate the volume that they're doing that 8 percent could be gargantuan or it could just be like in either way stolen money is owed money right exactly and you can kind of see how GTA kind of deflects like or underplay how how how big of an impact this is because obviously their store is in question I would have left that out yeah I would have left that out because they they they led in with something strong very strong and they ended it and you but you know it's only 8% of us where it said what why did you have to include that everybody was on your side and now everyone's like stopping like what is that [ __ ] did you just say I wonder how like oh [ __ ] it would be if they actually put the number we're only

talking about 40 million dollars yeah man I mean you guys are getting all upset over 40 million dollars even it's like 8% of 20k yeah yeah bro that's a big chunk if it's point 8 yes it's sure small even still but that's money stolen I'm positive that if you were to take that sum of money that is owed that didn't get paid out to the people that should have got it and then you said do you want this or is this insignificant I bet you every single person would be like hell yeah I want that money yeah that is smart GTE direct allows devs to get a kind of third party sales maintenance that's smart that's better than Game Stop so I give them credit they're a portion of the post covers too common belief that GTA facilitates the resale Keys obtained through credit card fraud that method uses individual stolen credit information so this is what you were talking about as an example called GG has one of the great size to sell fraudulent keys so this has been back 2016 dude they've been seeing this

problem since then that has reported individuals to authorities for describing how keys were fraudulently purchased and resold on the platform in the past so this guy 92 walked this is how comparable people did it well here's here's an interesting idea what if we stop doing one-time authentication yeah right like what if because I mean somehow someway if you're buying an individual game we package it with its own tiny little launcher where if you double-click on the icon it first does the launching then does a behind-the-scenes key validation then loads the game yeah that could possibly happen before the user even knows any different yeah and oh you downloaded the key though has to been determined invalid mm-hmm you know the customer will probably upset but I'm pretty sure they knew going into it I'm like wow GTA 5 for dollar 99 yeah yeah yeah come on yeah come on yeah man yeah is it tough man yeah because you're involving so many different parties yeah it's

right let's say these are steam keys obviously steam is just sold a bunch of these and then the credit card a fraud like you said before it takes days or even weeks to kind of catch up to say that you know these are invalid purchases and then it's ready in GTA oh yeah there's too many different people I got to expect them to work in tandem and figure this out and where I stand on this right now is it it feels like g2a wants to do the right thing it feels like they want their service to be legit they want indie developers if you ask them to just throw away 8% of their money they wouldn't do it yeah right so to look at indie devs and say it's only 8% they're not going to throw away 8% of their money ya still want that indie community to exist on their plot of course so I think that I feel like they want to do the right thing they're just kind of in a jam right now because the way that their business operates I mean it's it's automated exactly I can't tell they don't have a way of verifying they're strong enough that will prevent this situation how would how do games

usually deal with because games are usually like in in in store currency are probably the closest that has used selling use items is there instances like this in awhile or something that people would sell fraudulent items orderly what items its what's a similar installation harder in a while because while from what I know you're like renting from Blizzard right like Blizzard has all the data Blizzard controls everything you have access to the data that you have generated for your account right but for all intents and purposes they still own your account the closest I ever got to this was gold farming but even in gold farming nobody was duplicating gold yeah sometimes there were bugs or exploits we were like oh people were able to get duplicate things but that's like obviously it gets patched out as soon as it's discovered but gold farming is still you have characters that are actually killing the mobs to get the in yeah but then you sell the gold like extra cheap because in you know wherever

your gold farm camp is set up the hourly rate to work is way less than the amount that you're gonna pull in USD when you sell the gold okay but even then you still had legitimate accounts that we're playing the game farming the money that that was then resold - and well it's the legal part of that it's just too much Lemur goat farming oh that's the controversy behind gold farming is just illegal because it's against the EU la for a World of Warcraft they they don't allow you to do that well it's actually not illegal it's just having a bunch of work the cops will never know exactly it's legitimate accounts right people behind it sure playing the game killing the mobs getting the money but then you're like hey I'll pay fifty dollars for two hundred thousand gold and they're like great cuz it only cost us $14 to get it so they make that transaction they send you that gold it's just illegal to Blizzard but actually you can't get arrested for gold farming I say yeah yeah I'm just trying to think of a similar instance where you're reselling

digital goods and then like because that like you said is a system that would apply the GTA kind of peddling like steamed codes the clothes well I don't want to say music because music was people were copying free- paying for it whereas this is like people are getting a duplicate item with a fraudulent method and then reselling that item I I don't recall so this is a new problem this is kind of new it's kind of new but I'm pretty its new for games but it's not new for credit card come I'm sure people do fraud Russian divergences live [ __ ] all the time and they try to get ahead of that yep I'm sure like thinking's have had this problem before right every game oh for sure like g2a even though 8% is just indie yeah how many other 92% is like if Sony and Microsoft you type in smaller and they're still dealing with this problem as well that was the $1.99 for GTA problem so those guys are like we're missing $40 every time somebody steals

this right so they're they're probably just as pissed to be honest yeah and this is why like a lot of software companies are trying to go towards the subscription model it's the easiest way to provide a gate and have control over a system and no one's out there selling Netflix code or anything right and and honestly it would actually solve a lot of the issues you know I have a friend that used to pirate movies all the time but because the Netflix you know why bother it's so much easier just to have a $10 description in music too because of the music you know gigabytes that you would load on your iPod or phone it's so much easier just a scenario service and I remember people telling me that like I prior because of the convenience and I'll say like I'm surprised to see I don't see any more of those big black CD binders laying around all my friends yes like I used to 10 years ago we're good I know you guys will watch friends like at the hole yeah yeah now it's like oh you

guys wanna watch friends pop on Netflix yeah so yeah I get it yeah I can see that I can see that I think that this is just gonna be a tough issue for ajit way to solve it really really want to make good with any developers I don't know what their operations like I'm sure they have money I'll say this they would it like GTA direct could be a indie hosting type of platform I will say this if you want to solve this problem pun intended you got to close the valve yeah we're all fraudulent data is flowing right wherever the pirate is going with the fraudulent credit cards to acquire the game codes that is where the focus needs to be not a decently site because that's an honest business not the developers themselves now because you know obviously they want to make a game and put it out there for people to buy yeah but where is it that the pirates are going with the fake credit cards to get the game codes that's obviously the valve that needs to be fixed and apparently that place is actually valve the owners of steam yeah somehow they're getting fake credit

cards to buy game codes and then redistributing them or something like they're just buying on Steam and yeah buying a bunch of those I'll admit I need to research that part of it more to figure out not for my own self just for understanding yeah as to where they're getting it and how it's working because then I'll have a much better like attack scenario for how the problem could be solved yeah let's see I still have my binary okay fair enough fair enough he's not admitting or denying he's just simply saying that like he has a binder full of CDs and DVDs that he I know I I don't even have my DVD player anymore it's in please I know I was so happy to not have it was like nostalgic to flip through it that last time yeah but I had a big thick binder full and I chunk [ __ ] yeah yeah it's just a different convenience is everything right so there's a case where pirate errs were always pirate there's nothing you can do about that well if you can if you can build a case that has come all right

well one thing that you know about pirate is they're lazy as [ __ ] right if you can make it so convenient for them they are willingly gonna be paying customers there is a transition period there that is possible it's not like I will pirate forever pirates forever right the pirates I worry about is like they're in it because it's free and its new that it's easy you make it too easy so there's no punishment yeah I'm not gonna lie I'll tell a true story about piracy so like this was like Napster day Larry can't leave this is like Napster days I was at Penn State my first college studying business at the time and I had my little laptop and yeah everybody was trading in p3s this is like 2002 2003 like Napster LimeWire computer aids was a real thing yeah this was those days I saw like Oh awesome powers Spy Who shagged me oh no what was a Goldmember like it was out in theatres yeah and I was broke and I was like well

[ __ ] I was like here's my Friday night right here yeah so through the Penn State Network like downloaded I'm like yeah I watched I watched it I was like cool that for that Tyler this is great quality and everything I thought I thought it was slick yeah and then like two weeks later I got a letter big ass like a bowl look Universal logo at the top and it was like dear mr. Larry Charles we've detected fraudulent activity that you have illegally downloaded and took part in distributing a copy of our intellectual property and then like in a different font and Austin Powers number do our relationship with your University we're not pressing charges but we want you to and I like that paragraph was the biggest like I've ever had but dude our relationship with your University you're not gonna and I was just like oh never parted a thing after that sitting posture ayzik after that yeah well it's just I had respect and I knew that I knew what I was doing was wrong and I had the mindset of the

I'm just one person they're still gonna make their hundreds of millions and whenever there's a lot of people who take that mindset up they're not gonna miss my eight bucks yeah I got a letter it was stamped and his [ __ ] sign and it was on nice paper envelope don't take the time oh they wanted their eight bucks yeah definitely that's funny to be fair man it's probably the the hundredth letter that day yeah at a university so they're probably used to that you always get a few horn yet they're not gonna bake they're not gonna sue everyone because that will eight bucks versus sue everybody yeah they're not gonna yeah that letter was effective at least in my case because I knew I was doing wrong well you now you're being watched and yeah now I well that too but even then like after I was off their network even after learning about VPN and all that stuff I still prefer to pay the content makers because I now AM a Content maker yeah so it hurts more you know I feel for them you know on the same if I see another guy get kicked in the nuts I hurt cuz I'm like oh yeah you know the

guy sorry brother unlike the daredevil proach is like I gotta try harder unlike the Bond guy who's like I got a state Starbucks Starbucks I got five roommates any one of them I just got a sound can I act on the phone so I was gone that we plays like a pirate to watch it I just want to beat them yeah I mean yeah nowadays of course pirating is out there if you have internet accessibility into pyatters it's just all about convenience is if there's a method if there's a lane that makes it so easy for you that's easier than making the purchase you will always take that easier Lane your period right and so a lot of this like you said can be solved at the valve level right is there a way to detect I think at this point they have double authentication right yeah where they have to make sure you an

email saying that you're about to make this purchase or you just make this purchase and stuff like that they have that in place so these guys obviously getting around that somehow where they just made the purchase on a fake account right but like another way through they have to have these systems where like these this guy just bought two hun codes like that's odd just uploaded two hundred codes of an EI game and name is dizzy do bad yeah three nine nine that's not a that's not a steam side ma uh and in the GT to you a side right so for them to authenticate it like are you the developer who are you you're a third party where it was your website actually that's a good question yeah even like I think I can buy four copies of a game through like valves like friend thing yeah and I can obviously buy one copy for myself or gift a copy but I've never tried to do like a bulk yeah copy

there's something really off for them together that's one be able to detect right yeah cuz I was gonna say if you did put a hard limit and just like look this account has downloaded this game for our persons game four times 24 hour week before you can buy it again yeah and even then it's just another four copies at least put in a difficulty gate because that turns 500 purchases into 16 yeah there's not that many pyatters doing this right there's only a select few and because similar situations like you most people don't want to get in trouble by doing this kind of its to steal a credit card number to actually make the purchase at their home probably to be covering your tracks everything tells not everyone can do that out of the country because like yeah no right they're not gonna find me yeah why'd it have to be a bit Nandi it could be what are you seeing to me I was basically saying a country not the US where I I know the legal system doesn't have great relationship with ours where like

we could just go over there and like punish your extradite yeah so any of those like countries like that or similar I would imagine like oh they sent the letter yeah they don't give this one you don't have my address but yeah there's got to be some odd oddities behavioural wise on the internet that you can detect I mean that's what the there's got to be some patterns they can probably trace back to this code that was used to the count tied to it see how long it's on me it's not that hard man and like I can sit here and and and provide a solution and work backwards is they obviously you can trace all these codes back to an account yeah and it's like why am I the only person that can see and I think it is in their best interest to work with Steam or whatever they're getting these codes and figure this out it's bad for business yeah if I was thinking about how to solve like piracy for movies especially since we've talked about the Goldmember thing and what worries me is that like

the best thing that I could think of as a business person was just make the movie free but fill it with like the main character loves coke or you know drives a specific sports car or you're always seeing like a real-life story where we're showing real-life brands all the time because those are subtle advertisements that those companies will pay for so you do get funding for your movie before you've made it free then you make it free and then you have to worry about piracy but you also don't get those movie sales anymore I don't know if that will ever end up to being like we got four billion dollars now there are two billion dollars worth of company sponsorships yeah on Avengers form yeah I don't see those things happening but that's just one thing I thought of as to how you could try to circumvent the piracy issue for movies and games like 2k make 2k if they're gonna feel 2k with ads the way that they do that game better be free-to-play as soon as possible yeah wise they are robbing people yeah well they're robbing them and making them watch ads they're gonna test it out for

sure had some horse than Kaka and they have every year it's like they have like 10 years of futures they want to test out and every year they they pepper it in there that's how they do it you know that you know the the new 2k has like commercials that are unskipable well the current and I read about that yeah listen that's some new game and you gotta watch some EMA right there I'm surprised tick to locate that thing and that was a good idea hitman that was I felt that one like that earlier example like so you can't skip it you can't give it why not skip it you have to watch it 30 seconds of commercials before you get to the game you're trying to play in a game that you paid for 60 bucks yeah I've talked to that dip I hope that doesn't catch on with everything I have I hope that doesn't catch on I hope that's a big failure just make it free to play yeah maybe a free to play I could see that if it was like hey I'm got is that's what if it's yeah you got to watch the ads yeah if you paid the 60 bucks how Kuehl how greedy you have to be you want the consumer money and they

had money at the same time that's how hard it is to make games and still give out Ferrari bonuses there's no reason for that game to be so hard I know that like I worked at 2k they were upstairs from us it's the same team for 20 years the same group of guys what'd you do last year Pedro and it's the most stable job ever and it's such a small team you'd be surprised right they might have a they actually have a satellite studio in LA but they're mostly the the we call it the the motion ya motion cap studio so that those guys at visual constant man there with that smaller team consistently selling millions every year Oh they are riding it dude and they've been there for like 25 years like each of those guys yeah it's amazing so they don't need any more money to be like that greedy about it honestly bro they'd watch that Justin Timberlake moment from the social network yeah it was cooler than a million a billion yeah oh pretty

much it so this is a micros again he's a stat guy and I think this is interesting before we end this one which is coming up soon so here's some lovely stats GG have provided for us descenders has sold 2226 coffee not GTA but one single person sold 45% come on guys that's what I'm saying like this is a blip yeah these get there's only so few of these pyatters with this type of behavior that is risky enough to do this I think g2a like this is just lazy in fact 85 many accounts anyone any percent of keys were sold by three people dude it's mostly like people think this is like some Bond villain [ __ ] but it's usually like these killed or young adults sitting on their couch just thinking they're slick in a foreign country maybe right most like the u.s.

virus I got an idea so where the heck do they get so many cheap free keys how is it even possible I do literally finishes little sensor here you can see that one guy selling 100 to steam keys on February at that point the game was only available on Steam and was 10% in the launch sale I remember seeing those keys on she's here for thirteen dollars at the time so how did one person get a hundred keys he could sell for thirteen dollars more than the sales on Steam happening yo you just be one intern on this g2a needs that this is lazy yeah they need the Twitter and Instagram verified check mark if you're selling bulk copies of a game and you don't have it a proven length account or ruv saw approving linked account or street or whatever company right now not affiliated with that product you can you can sell one at a time yeah well thick and easily good all you

need the FBI involving this right they can talk to sting is that you have this guy who bought hundred two keys around this date all we actually have this guy in this pinpoint to that account he's like where's his IP come from a little bit yeah bulk bulk keys case closed open and close shut case right this is saying that they dragged on this long and it is pretty lazy for them to say this only counts eight percent of a problem I don't know it has to be why be like so I didn't get down to that to that graphic but I even without looking I hypothesized right you do this will definitely huge wills that you're not tackling oh my god no one's selling no one these guys because I have friends that are parties there are the laziest types of human beings ever and it's all because of convenience is is is why they're pirating is the first second

step is to sell and scalp products right that's a different level right beyond filth but getting that one free copy for yourself versus exploits it yeah like if you want to really cover your tracks right you would create a thousand accounts and each account you buy one and then you gotta go on a VPN service to make sure that when you're pretty you know none none of them are doing this right they're just like conveniently I got a credit card I'm gonna buy a hundred right now and then I'm gonna disperse it unload on G to it by the afternoon grab a pizza card imagine they're still doing multiple accounts but more like burner accounts like one account loads up as much as it cannot steam to then my still active G to a account that unloads as much as I can until I get found out let's restart the process exactly I don't know from experience exactly all right man so that pretty much ends our thinking on the subject if you have further comments we arch we ending our livestream in starting our

next show which is invisible walls with the guests to have Sunday but I stay tuned for that for the next five minutes if you want to support us on patreon com4 slash blue champs go over there and give us some money because then this will become an audio podcast as our next go which I think you would thoroughly enjoy and go to our YouTube mcauliffe or slash blue champs and because we have to twist prime during this broadcast maybe that's a thing every day we proclaim something that we'll do the next day we're gonna have a substance tomorrow morning I'm straight up with your name right into it the people showed up so I'm doing it alright I guess we can leave it all now IKEA would hate that leave that for the week and just start the staking think is like pretty damn disgusting you know like the sandwiches tomorrow are gonna be provided by the two people who joined right right so I'll just be a new sandwich it'll be a new sandwich alright I'd like that and then if we get

to a point where we have more subscribers and sandwiches it's just gonna be a lottery thing like a this one by that person that one by that person and eighty other people thank you very much yeah well thank you so much for joining us 10:00 a.m. every day we pick a topic if you want to propose a topic go over to our discord or during our live chat will read it so stay tuned for our next show visible walls it's coming up very soon and that is the end of this all right so when you did your cells recapped who got him got him [Music] you [Music]