Phil Spencer Answers Xbox One's Struggles | Games ReCAP Episode 010

[Music] let's have everybody welcome to another episode of games recap good morning everybody welcome back hopefully welcome back another episode of games recap where Brandon Brandon Charles Larry Charles Brenda Pham we're gonna sit and talk about the biggest news in the game industry that happened yesterday yesterday ish yesterday so first thought we're gonna talk about of course a topic that we can get to yesterday because we were kind of fuming over valve at the episode of you didn't catch it on a youtube.com forward slash blue champs in the meantime let's look at this particular topic alright Phil Spencer a couple days ago gave an extensive interview to Kotaku and was pretty honest about how Xbox one failed to kind of integrate themselves in this

current gen of consoles if you remember during the ps3 era or Xbox what was it was the last exercise Xbox 360 keep with the name they're getting complicated but the Xbox 360 I felt completely won that generation yeah or at least build off of what the original Xbox was I will say I think ps3 probably still outsold the 360 but I think the 360 was the strongest Microsoft showing thus far original Xbox got them in the game I think 360 was like best online support and services for fans who played the games like Xbox Live at that time was huge right the achievements they brought that to the game into the marketplace and I think that was probably their best execution so far me personally yeah I mean they definitely doubled they definitely created a great first part

exclusive as well as third-party support they had a string of great titles and I think it was the onslaught of Gears of War at that time which was there I think biggest third party right oh that's first party Gears of War here's awards first party now oh but when I was under epochs being here was third yeah I forgot about that because they only had it was third party exclusive yeah which is non-existent now yeah in this current gen there's no such thing as their part exclusive unless you're indie title and you you need the months the monies but let's go to this article real quick so as we're looking at this this article another great article on you by our friend over there Steven not really our friend we don't know but you know the strengths of the Xbox platform has diminished in this

current gen the project Scarlett to me I didn't really see any exclusive titles that was very huge aside from again Halo Infinite and then again Gears of War it's like other than the safe bets right like the things that we just got to know our Microsoft sure I feel like it would be so early for companies that are working on scarlet stuff to show their cars because it would also probably reveal about scarlet yes in some way yes but it also didn't it didn't feel like safe bets to me either I felt like very old all thing kind of a rehash very very yeah because the trailers themselves weren't very exciting game The cuts were very too much of a tease and I think if they're announcing they're they're constantly neither have a better effort than that to really get people excited and back into Xbox camp because everyone's hanging out and ps4 everything yeah and I think the way that Sony is teasing the new console is actually smart right yeah they they realize that we're getting to the end of

the like fidelity arms race so you know what they talked about they're like hey here's how long it takes to play spider-man and get from one part of the city to the other or to load this big thing and they're like wow nine seconds here it is on PS 5 it was instant right so like they're selling the idea of you don't have to wait any more to play your games and they're leading with that as their first card played which I actually think is really strong because we are getting better and better technology our processors getting faster we're adding more RAM we're adding solid-state memory and like all these things that's going to make accessibility of gaming content way better for the consumer and I think that's a great starting point to start teasing and promoting their new console because it's showing off the power without showing like the graphical power right they're saving that for later mmm yeah and I don't know like I don't have an Xbox one mm-hmm right have you been joined that box oh yeah I'll say from the initial purchase I think that you know I I bought into the like Xbox and I didn't have Kinect and

then I went and got the Kinect camera just because I thought it would be cool to you know do face recognition or like you know turn on Xbox or Xbox on or whatever hopefully I didn't mess up anybody's xbox right now Xbox off anyway so I thought that was cool and gimmicky but I didn't play any games actually that took advantage of the software I was not excited about any sort of like frame mapping just dance technologies or anything like that so I would say that like it was hit or miss for me initially but the thing that makes me prioritize playing games on the Xbox one right now versus the PS 5 is I really like the game pass I've always loved PlayStation Plus given me the like here you're one or two free games a month like I love free games especially because if it's a $60 game that I missed let's say a year ago or two years ago I think that that's always been strong but Xbox game pass sure I'm paying 10 bucks but I was browsing it this morning there's like a hundred and ten games on there and I'd say roughly about twenty to thirty

percent of those are games that I want to download install and play and then I'm happy that I have access to for the ten bucks Shenmue 1 and 2 yeah I saw was on there today that's installing as we speak yeah well my question to you is like with game paths of course you have experience with it you hear the stadia stuff where do you stand do you feel like there's stuffs in stadia that can't that you're like oh that's different or is it more of the same and it's just with the Google brand over me specifically I'm still gonna continue to support games past I like that model it's convenient there's not thousands of games that it takes me forever to find anything interesting I think the amount of games that they offer right now for the 10 bucks is like it's like value right now stadia I love the idea behind stadium because I can see that potentially opening top level gaming to so many more people that it helps the developers on that in yeah so I like what they want to do yeah I'm probably going to try it because I mean I can pay like 10 bucks to get you know the stadia experience and just to see see what games I have access to and get a sense of the future

I haven't yet been sold as a permanent like this is my you know fourth console switch PlayStation Xbox and now yeah so that's that's kind of where I am uh-huh hello yourself let me switch this up real quick okay its own Spencer comments yeah well I mean we're looking over this and I mean he was pretty honest and Kentucky what's they've been doing lately has been very upfront yeah not trying to get them too much in trouble when the Clippers but more like and asked nicely getting him warmed up before what do you attribute the failure of this is how you cushion this is what I'm learning through media is the question asked was so you have a good-tasting games right because Phil Spencer was in the trenches before

between being promoted which is good and what I appreciate a lot with a lot of these execs coming from that place I don't know you see a quite the way I see it but do you see that there has been a challenge in terms of high quality creation with you guys if you figured out the remedy to get past that and make those stars again subtle look subtle jab saying like your gains been sucking on the first party this is what's going on I think quality of first person first party is very important so I'm totally with you there so that's why we've been investing I'm paraphrasing here put a lot of pressure on everything that we're doing and it became very difficult to manage a portfolio and maintain the high quality level so the supporting we're getting now over the last couple years it allowed us to reinvest in first-party and this is big right because they publicly made it very known before they started snatching it like a toe to the studio is that they need to reinvest and double down and you

know focus on the content now because for some reason where the weird absence from Microsoft because we were talking about like the last year and a half what Xbox games have been marketing right Forza I've seen a lot of Forza comment aside from the obvious but legs I was like literally going to try to figure out which ones yeah yeah it's not much and it's a weird we're time to to be absent in in in a very competitive time right during Christmas and all that then especially with their console transition about the start you know to mean like they got to start hedging bets to get people excited about the exact games that people will be playing and not necessarily just the conveniences and the technologies that they have to offer I think Sony is kind of doing a little of both obviously you know we know that they have some really heavy hitter current gen games that still haven't come out yet like the Last of Us 2 obviously I don't believe last was two is going to be next-gen I think it's current gen so there's still people excited about the end of their life

cycle whereas I don't have any one specific game coming out right now from Microsoft where I've been following trailers and comments and reading articles and just building ups a clamor for this experience like I don't have any of those that have been sold to me unfortunately right and so I well it's nice that they acknowledge it but it was it felt weird there was a weird period where they were just different they were gone non-existent even their first parties I'm pretty sure he'll if in it had to miss the date hey Mike my feeling on it was because the last Haila was aside from the remastered hey before hey look forward was that the thing where I feel bad about halo is like halo was a cultural phenomenon when it came out at the time it offered a great play experience but it also offered a great connectivity right it was the like bring

over your Xbox lets get you know Forex boxes together and let's you know it was like the first taste of like a lot of the online stuff that we have right now and so sure halo definitely pioneered a lot of the multiplayer first-person shooter gaming on console as far as competitive stuff goes Emily the game in the story was actually really good I still to this day reference the introduction of the flood in Halo one when I'm teaching people stuff about game design but now like the the market has shifted so much so that like this the staples of what I expect or want to do in a Halo the way that I control Master Chief I don't want to say it's outdated but I want to say that like I feel it feels so familiar that you know there's no there's not a lot of excitement in me thinking about playing a new Halo game yeah like I'm not like I've had it so much I've had five Halo games potentially at this point plus like the what do you call it the Halo ODST halo show halo halo halo halo halo halo Master Chief collection where they

remastered the old Halo games and you played through the nostalgia effect we've been bombarded with the green Spartan for two console generations now going into our third and it's not like Mario where they can just add new enemies where they're adding new stages and like giving them subtle power-ups I honestly think that like a God of War style overhaul is needed for Master Chief if they want Master Chief to still be a flagship experience moving forward I think God of War is a great blueprint for exactly what needs to be shaking up they're like hey look it's a big title we have a lot of fans behind us and this is how we've done it game after game after game after game why don't we play with a big part of that experience let's change it up a little bit it'll still be a Master Chief story but how can we tell it maybe more personal how can we tell it more intimate how can we give him more character except for katana go into the mainframe and shut it down I know the deal all right I I gotta admit some good if I haven't

been vocal before I've never been I've never been a Halo fan halo came out for the consoles and it was supposed to bring the PC experience to the concert that wasn't his big sale yeah I've been playing on PC for a long time before they even brought it over so when I thought when they brought it over it was a revolutionary to me he was watered down so ever since then I've never really got into it mm-hm and what they're doing and have they gone over the years and it's a well respect yeah company Bungie and three four three studios I just never been a huge there's nothing that ever shown to me where I felt excited about you know Master Chief didn't feel as cool as solid snake to me like a lot of the Call of Duty game covered the the warfare on boot to the boots on the ground boots on the ground is what I call Rd nothing like it

covered all that and then all the sci-fi stuff is something I didn't like like in those kind of shooters it was just it felt floaty and I personally never liked it as a competitive shooter I think so like the fiction part you know if that was the cell it never really drawn me in because it felt again the story wasn't even that great to me oh man you beat halo one two and three I played him it's fine no it's no I'll offer you this I think one through three is worth a playthrough for story first one through three was that I think well it was at the time it felt great I felt like a hero I felt like oh man this is really cool they took me on this great adventure okay after 3i there it kind of so didn't it so I guess I never get it for a chance because it always felt cheesy to me if it didn't capture you you gave it a fair chance by even playing it you know what I mean so like if the game didn't real you in you know it's not your fault very honest I

wouldn't blame you for that right so uh going back to Phil Spencer when he was talking about all these struggles and all these first purse first party games aside from the two main obvious ones are just year's award now in halo Forza the whole reason why the major exercise but that's like that's that's all I could be good was like I what it's like you talking about the Sony Canon Nintendo you can nain up to ten yeah if you were to go game for game with Sony and then Microsoft Sony's gonna win that's why I'm so cautious about all these studios that are snatching up and aside from Ninja Theory Ninja Theory yeah you know your faith in the other ones now I don't know fun not obsidian not in exile now you know now I'll say this I can see you not giving the credit to in exile and obsidian because I haven't known you to play like the type of games that I feel like those companies are excellent now okay

so I can understand you probably not being excited about those pickups yeah I think Double Fine has been I think no the financing consistent yes that leanness posture but is it one of those is it up there with Gears of War and halo are they gonna give us something like that no I think they're great at creating cult classics yeah so so that's what I'm seeing like why are they positioning themselves are they just kind of folding all the big blockbusters they're moving away from the blockbuster games that's being released and leaving it to Sony to kind of handle and they're kind of like trying to dominate the middle ground now the double-a what it because that's what I'm seeing there all the buys of course you know find it for financial reasons they're a lot cheaper yeah right so they have to and to kind of build up their portfolio which is if their intention is to have these exclusive because the next box and the PS 5 is exactly the same peripherals

it's the same processor and graphic with a different logo on top right there's nothing different about it and now it's so it's a completely software base now when it comes to console wars right if you're talking about high fidelity graphics yeah it's so they're looking to create first part exclusive to kind of buff up their library and kind of really concentrate on game pass and and they've kind of stated like they want to start moving away from hardware being the focus because the hardware business is very it's not profitable right and plus you also have to keep in mind the gentleman's agreement that these come have where it's like if Sony really wanted to they could blow the doors off of Microsoft right if Microsoft really wanted to they could blow the doors off the PlayStation with graphics fidelity but in doing so they make it very difficult for the developers to release on both platforms right so that's like a you for sure better be going exclusive or first party route if you made something so far away from the capability of the other device that

you're now forcing developers to choose one or the other or make for one and then offer water down for the other you know what I mean and when that happens obviously people don't play the water down because they want to get their money's worth they play the primary right so I don't know I don't know how how they're gonna get back on the platform because right now they're like well why I guess you can call them third right place right now hey babe you think that you think Nintendo is taking the Nintendo's definitely killing it right now with the switch yeah everyone's buying the hardware and their software is very smartly adjusted to make it every three months a major game release and everyone talked about that what I see with Markus soft is I see they're trying to set up for agility I think they know that they're going into an even more unpredictable future as providers of game content so they're they're offering access to accessibility through like hey if you want indie titles and things like that we're really doubling down on ID and Xbox and we're

trying to help those creators pump out content for our devices if you like a Netflix style gaming experience you don't have 60 dollars to spend at any one time but spending ten dollars every month doesn't scare you here's some games it's in dollars a month ten dollars a month and then oh hey if you still do want the big stuff we got Gears of War Halo and Forza but the game pastor requires an Xbox to play man oh yeah oh yeah are there not moving on to like a PC game Pass so I actually I can't verify that I don't know if my game pass allows me to play like games for Windows or anything like that I just exclusively played my one X all right let's move to your face so yeah gets out of anything game anything Xbox the game path for me is like the most interesting what an Xbox has evolved in yeah me too I I really like what's going on there it feels good for how much money I spend how much value I get to know that sure some games may come and go like I may see a day where oh I didn't finish

playing this experience in the time that it was allowed to be on the games pass but you know the fact that there's like 110 115 quality titles ranging from xbox 360 Xbox one Xbox one X 2 then this new future like Gears 5 is gonna be on games pass so if you already have games pass instead of spending $60 or $70 on the new triple a title that came out you can just play it on games pass if you're already a member it's there's no additional purchase for you just go ahead and start playing guys that was a big surprise for me yeah so let's read this off up so everyone can see this all right so let's start from right to left right from cheapest also PC is included for an extra so console is at $10 which is what Larry has right so this is obviously access with the new games and same day release stuff from first party first party exclusives which is great

the PC woman is 5 bucks a month 5 bucks a month and they're really teasing that right now to get people in that's actually a pretty damn good deal unlimited access same thing you get all the exclusive for PC and Excellency that's the smartest thing they've ever done yeah to make Xbox and PC the same day release developer both it's really free it's like the easiest thing that developer and then it for $15 a month so you get Xbox gold which is the it's your ability to play online and be competitive and be part of that community yeah so actually it sounds like my price is gonna jump up 5 bucks yeah if you want your online definitely wanna poems so this goes okay so the $15 gives you the PC and Xbox so you can opt in that's the best team this is what they want to move forward to it's like if you have a good PC you don't need an Xbox anymore

it's honestly the the box is just giving people access to play games and where they make the money is the games the microtransactions the subscriptions the content the advertising the community the box is just a way to get people in there you know what I mean yes so it's the smartest move that I've done and to me they are completely bowing out of the hardware business well I've been anyone go back and listen the game devil vodcast yes I was right yes Nintendo that everybody wants that hard words Atlantic because it's very unique and then Sony's of course the leader let's continue to make PS they have such a strong brain I mean all es5 sounds fresh I'll eat crow if we see PlayStation 6 you think snout holy crow because I I think that we're just getting to the point where the accessibility is king you know people want their games

whenever they want if I've known anything about games consumer is they demand everything yeah for as little as money as possible as immediately as possible that's think they ever come back with the with the TV business what do you mean Sony I mean Sony's being conquered by Samsung's here yeah right but like imagine if Sony stopped selling console but everything is a smart TV now and their service is a part of it I think Sony's biggest problem in my opinion as far as outside of games and even games included I've seen a lot of this attitude is this like as technology was coming up and being discovered before things were like cemented as the way to go yeah they always tried to create the like Sony exclusive technologies to then charge a premium for them when everyone else was like well we're all gonna adopt this platform together so that everyone has access to XYZ like blu-ray yeah it was like I think they acquired blu-ray but that ended up being proprietary for a while you look at memory cards for your PSP or

for your PSP the Vita and then the memory cards for the place like every time they had an opportunity to just use a format that was widely adopted and make it you know they went their own they always did their own thing and then they charged a premium for and you were never getting dollar two value you were always getting Sony taxed like out the ass yeah everything they sold was probably doubled in price in my opinion if they sold it for half as much I felt like there was profit even still you know what I mean at half price that's how high their premiums were you know also just a quick shout out to anybody in twitching in the comment section we read all the comments we got our phones right here so if you want to say hey shout-out to mom or ask us specific questions about the articles we read feel free to drop a line something that we talked about you know that means no yeah you

know I've been asked this and I always answer I feel kind of silly in the way answer but honestly I have no I'm not any kind of expert on a union I've been at Microsoft since I was 20 so I don't know I don't hear that insight just being on this when I'm with my team's you don't hear the desire know the things I get are hey I want to make sure I can do my best work here I want to make sure I have the right tools I want to make sure at the right environment you guys report on other people report on it it's true I don't think he's the right guy right he's just trying to run the Xbox division he's smart yeah his deflection game is pretty strong pretty strong because for him to make a stand and say you know yes I do think the game industry needs to unionize he's then going to send shockwaves through different sectors of Microsoft especially the shareholders right that's something that I don't think the shareholders would want because then you can't exploit anymore you can't exploit the labor for cheap profits or you can't do the like hey 800 layoffs you know record bonuses earnings calls anymore

things like that there's more accountability that's going to be held and all that I think unions are gonna do even though it's gonna make things more fair which should be what we want is going to make in going to fairness because of exploitation it makes the people on the other side of unions the employers actually have to pay more money or have to be held more accountable and get away with less things that have been business practice for a long period of time yeah so I totally understand why he specifically was trying to deflect and say I don't have a dog in that fight I don't have enough experience I don't do you have empathy do you understand how games are made you understand what developers go through in order to make games yeah you read those same headlines I know for sure he has an opinion on should game developers you guys or not he's wearing a badge that him answering that question will Microsoft will create situations that are above his head that will be very big headaches for the people that employ oh yeah it's a big trapping on kotaki sparked China hey I'm

glad they asked I'm glad they asked and get him uncomfortable you see the little eye twitch will sweat beads but yeah I mean obviously does have an opinion and he does it's not like he's completely disconnected I mean he's running the game position few minutes boxing Microsoft it's a conversation not for them and it's just for us yeah it's for game developers the you know if you want to unionize it's up to you to start from what Emma Kahneman has said many times grassroots movement it starts from one person talk to you another for a long time so the listeners longtime Watchers and viewer is a student GDX you know we have our own personal feeling about it because right now the status quo sucks but going back to Xbox I have very unless unless they're just shipping a box to say they shipped a box I have very little faith that they're

gonna be able to trump back to where they were with 360 so I think Sony the Asians learn from their mistake and they said never again the market share was a lot more I would say closer to even for ps3 xbox 360 versus xbox one ps4 Xbox one ps4 I feel like is like a six to one six to one yes in Sony's favor something like that oh yeah because man what was it this last year alone yeah God were four and a man killed it Red Bull Red Dead isn't is everyone I mean they had plenty of other games sure and then uncharted 2 no they are telling us to come like if you look at the end cycle of these current-gen I can't really name any Xbox games I'm pretty sure Halo and Gears of War was meant was stable maybe not years of work but Halo had to be meant for this gen but got slipped what state of decay to xbox expensive state of decay to do you recall know it's not exclusive

I don't think thought it was see a thieves was see a Theseus see if he was also in games past you can play it for free if you spent your nine vouches smart I think what they're doing what game passes future-proofing I just change that you can play it for your nine bucks I hate saying you can play the free if you spent the money but you know what I mean it's included on buy a game if I didn't have game pass I would say I was probably buying at least seven full price video games a year oh wow I lost more than Ares then more than average I think it's more than average seven games a year seven games you well the full price was in like but that's a steam game like a ten dollar $14 or $50 or $60 game I'm just saying I buy about seven full price games a year what about an Xbox so like an Xbox game I bought maybe one Xbox game this year I bought that sounds about right I bought red did on Xbox that sounds about right but how long you been having a game pass I've had game pass since I bought the One X around Christmas time okay so there you go

we got about six dollars from you that you would usually spend $60 they doubled you and then you're probably gonna keep on it until I'm I'm not gonna quit on games pass until unless I see like app there's not really an offering here that basically see that you hundred times that or what a thousand times that those are the amount of customers that are constantly it's a revenue stream that companies love because they can rely on it and see how it like decreasing increases sure in increments forces because the the console business is the console business is kind of like the card business right now right the hardware that you sell you get very little profit you know if you do at all and you don't even you loot you you're operating a loss at the beginning there's a lot of these new consoles that come out the under price um just to get them off the shelves you can make their money back from the software yeah and that's why the first party excuses are important getting noise about it because they go by the hardware but then you know the continuously

support the companies behind it plus they're finally realizing that having a digital channel for distribution of software cuts the underbelly of the game industry resale where other people were making money except for the people who made the box and produce the content right if you went to gamestop and bought uncharted 4 for 18 bucks or whatever offer like you thing they don't send an extra six bucks to Sony and they don't send an extra six bucks to the developers and then keep six dollars themselves right they're like oh no you've already got your money because this was sold once so new customers are being created people are experiencing the content but the money exclusively is going to gamestop they completely had all of that money where they had nothing to do with actually creating or playing the game or make being responsible for the creation or the playing of that game mm-hmm so this digital future especially like a games pass are you know any of these like hey just buy it digitally from us man come on they're like alright we're cutting gamestop completely out of

the picture because they've never been paying homage they've never been just like forward-thinking and said hey every time we resell one of your games we're gonna give ten to fifteen percent of the price to you as a fee relationship could have been way better if they even attempted that but they didn't right so now look what happens all the publishers want to go fully digital they want you to buy a full price they don't want you to be able to sell it to another person so that if every new customer is a literally a new customer Sony is always gonna get their money Microsoft always gets their money developers always gets their money and I'm on that side so I'm like cool that's awesome oh well here's what here's a question for me - sure years ago Microsoft was struggling with their online PC I mean PC Store the windows there's one or whatever whatever that's the first thing you uninstall when you install Windows they get that off my start test right so they were obviously valve was in a good place with them where here's a solution that obviously works it's

thriving yeah I'm sure there was been talks because they're right next door to each other and we have history with each other right now that the game past is kind of taking off people are really positive about their experience with it Elyse how do you feel about a situation do they need steam at all anymore do you think it's advantageous at all Microsoft's first party stuff like with their games for Windows know just having steam as a platform under the Microsoft brain well who Oso it would Microsoft want to buy steam yes that's a tough one I think Microsoft's in a better position to buy steam I think today want steam do they need steam at now and I think that's definitely this they're like the only person I would consider them buying steam could actually create some advantages for them obviously whatever steam was taking as a cut for all those games being sold and distributed and all that digital information going to and from through whatever internet channels I think Microsoft is better equipped to

handle that - probably streamline that make it better make it faster and more unique they're probably gonna be better at data collecting data mining and then having that as an asset that they could then sell which you know taboo but it'll do it yeah I think that they're probably in the best position to own steam and actually get a benefit out of it other than just the monetary I will say on a competitive edge it's a tough sell for me because now they have steam and then they have games passed and I think they're really trying to double down on the games pass because I don't see them doing that like hey here's this just store offering that just has thousands tens of thousands of games that we also want to spend marketing money and draw attention to well let's entertain this idea right sure they're buying all these smaller Studios to kind of pump up their indie or double-a game portfolio yeah none of these games are at the same

stage of Gears of War and no matter how you feel about those games none of the none of the companies that they've bombed none of the news videos are on the caliber of a triple-a 300 plus teen okay you don't like the outer worlds that's not close to you which one does City let's do sitting one that is not your blaming this EE I'm so I'm sorry man don't worry no shots source received weeks ago alright they know it still boy that's a double a game all right let's not kid ourselves Gears of War halo right even if you put it at triple-a level there are tears and obviously there's a distance right we can I agree on that so if Microsoft their whole thing is trying to build up their smaller game portfolio to offer on games fans because they're like here's a software business here's a service that every month we need to offer new things wouldn't steam

being the best position fit and that's like oh holy here's an avenue that everybody submitting their games and there's a new once in a while gem that pops out and you know triple-a titles are already retreating from that store so you're gonna be left with basically all the smaller devs creating noise right sure so if they see that as a strengthening because right now steam doesn't have a game pass which is dumb that should have been the next evolution for them to like here's a special it's like a blend of what apple arcade is doing here's a special curated content from Steam exclusives that's pretty good idea and here's a ten dollar membership that you'll get to play and it will pump up the indie developers pocket strip but also provide like a constant revenue stream for for stream though right but like Microsoft somehow beat them through the plunge to figure them out but this is like a perfect harmony where both

companies would benefit from this deal right in my mind I guess the like the business side of me my concern if I was Marcus off was like alright we just spent all this money like acquiring these Studios we want to give them a fair chance and being four games out of a hundred is better than being four games out of twenty-five thirty forty thousand I have no idea many games on Steam maybe hundreds of thousands of games again so I will say yeah like Microsoft could own steam I think that based on what I'm seeing Microsoft doing I don't think that like their plan is to own like a steam style platform I think they only want to have the like like you said with steam should add the membership thing the here security content for ten bucks I think they love that business model the Netflix model scaled to the size where they're still getting the people that they purchase attention five years from now could be a different story I think that Microsoft will be sure the

first one in lines to say if you play a game on a PC it comes through us right like I think they'll be first in line for that need five years from now and they're gonna know I'm saying I could see them being first in live like to like make that happen I just don't know how some of those relationships will play out where Microsoft the technology provider versus Microsoft the game developer how that works out because you know there's Sega games on Steam well I guess they get kind of bowed out of Fi but I guess you get where I'm going with it where it's like oh my gosh continuously work as a third party though I mean their console assault their party I don't I don't think there's a conflict of interest if they own steam is what if anything they make it easier it's like hey we have a hardware business you want your game on like it works if you can read it very in line with ID at Xbox yeah the Sabine logo is green now yes I mean pretty much like I see like a huge a huge win for game developers and gamers alike if those two companies just joined

together well I don't know who else could buy steam to be honest nobody wants to you could buy it and actually like legitimately benefit off of it other than keeping it as is and just taking over the revenue stream I think as place like Steve like they need to have a steam pass it's it's really dumb for them to not even maybe they've discussed internally but I really do think they just been lazy man and they've been just so that's fine how much money we made last okay we're fine how does how does like a steam sale fit in because like that's something that I would see like start to diminish like the Gabey we're watching here's the whole model alright alright listen to my pitch steam past right steam passes are special curated content it were work with what kind of what epic game story is like we invite you into this program and instead of 30% you get the 10% right we match it up and this is just good games that we know and we support and when developers whatever right and we

will curate it and make sure that everything that's on this service is great a stuff yeah $10 a month mmm all right $10 a month PC people will sign up to that because they're looking for while you get developer support is like how do I get into this program plus they can do kind of what they're doing already which is the Wild West everybody can go on Steam that's fine that's the traffic is all right they serve that crowd right you want to put your crappy game on Steam sure go ahead well in this special curated content it's the best of both worlds it's like hey you know if you're part of this partnership this is great right you know and the gamer sites like this is good stuff I because four on the game recycling we got to dig through the trash ourselves but if I apply to this you know and have the steam pass basically it's basically where we want all there's or look what the what the original vision of steam was where what

we when we go on the front page it's like good ass games and I don't have to purchase or anything and so if you're you're asking about the steam sells right which is you know their biggest boost of the year people don't have to be a part of that program it's still available outside yeah you can op in a town like if you're a third parties like hey do you want to make this exclusive to just steam pass sure it's kind of like what Microsoft's doing right all those games on game pass are still in boxes I think right where where games passed would differ in my opinion if steam was to do it I would say that because I know that steam really really wants you to actually like purchase these games and their model is you buy the game you own it forever it's in your library yeah I think that the difference for them was I would like to know like I get two months right so like if I buy the February subscription I get February and March to play whatever games are on that list yeah because after that it's gonna rotate in the new

games and those old games are gone forever so you do need to at least attach that because you would still want to incentivize people to go back to the sales all right I think what games pass some of those games stay on there so long I'm not even thinking about oh I better own this game you know what I mean that's like like oxen-free has been on there for I don't know how long Street Fighter 4 has been on there for I don't know how long Mortal Kombat I don't know if it's gone or not but some of these games have been just their legacy at this point still same $10 a month gives me access to that game and I have no fear of like oh I better play it before it goes because I'm already used to the cadence being like it's gonna be there for the better part of a year before you even think about hearing oh it's gonna get removed yeah so I think that a more structured like here's every game gets 60 days and then it's done I think or even 30 days you know to get you like actively checking the song Google will see you over there Netflix model is definitely the best subscription model for both content

developers and publishers because it guarantees money upfront it's like hey we're licensing your game or show or whatever you want to do and here's the money for one year one one-year space on our shelf it's new digital shelves that's a great deal yeah and steam can be at the forefront of like really shaping that up and changing I don't know how game pass exclusive works it's I don't know what kind of deals they have to make he's like you know you'd want to put on a platform do you get a percentage of like that's that's probably not it's like coat rack stuff the agency like money upfront is like the easiest transaction it's a key here and done type of thing right so he's tracked through the revenue and how many did oh my good it's it's like if there is a titanfall 3 you can expect it to go on games passes yeah which is their move and which is what they should be doing yeah there was a just just the fact that like I first peeped that this strategy out when

crackdown 3 it was like hey we're making crackdown 3 it's this game that we know people are really excited about and like here's some screenshots so you've got Terry Crews it's gonna be great see this is right one games past where's like oh snap so I can either spend 60 bucks or get it like right now cause I'm already games past remember yes that opened the door to me of seeing like they're probably gonna do this a lot more often well they are here's five game paths yes but when you talking about crackdown and like yeah I heard of it yes yes some brand recognition but it's not like a must-buy type of thing but Gears five gears 5 is a bigger title for sure halo but that's why I feel like the smaller students are snatching and I'm just kind of on the veins of they know it's like it's not like everybody's like jumping off the couch to buy these games and lining up right it's like oh I'll try it sure definitely if it's on game path you know yeah it's there it has some appeal right but like even don't find them being like one of the better studios all

as soon as they bought right it's not like I'm gonna jump off to buy Psychonauts - yeah I mean you won't have to I won't it will be there if you have a slice it's the convenience its enabling which is a huge opening up the floodgates for indie developers support yeah right it's not you have to really go in there with your $10 and make a decision or not it's like it's there you're gonna play it so it's great in that front so I thought this is where I'm very hopeful on the digital subscription service is that you're gonna the same way you are on Netflix you're watching shitty movies you never never buy or rent it's there and you watch it and you give it a chance right you're gonna do the same with any titles sure and now that's great yep but uh what's the kind of muddy in muddy waters right now is the business side of things like how are these guys getting paid and most importantly why isn't steam a part of this like it's it's so lazy what they're doing over there did isn't

insane like this is they were in like the forefront of the type of a business model they did nothing they had no competition and they didn't need to change because for sure steam the steam supporters are like some of the most rigid resistant to change but what Shayne is an addition sure yeah sure I fair enough it's not yeah you're right it's not that shame but I'm just saying they're like I could I can see why nothing happened because there was no incentive for anything to happen if they did nothing they were still gonna make four billion dollars that year disappointing to hear that though but that's that's how it gets sometimes especially if the chief person running the company gave started in gaming I see him as a lot less of a necktie I think he actually is one of the people I would say like you know gabe newell's like running he got it starting the company the steam he's a businessman who for sure I would say is still attached to gaming at least at some point yeah but now it's like where is his incentive to do anything

I see Gabe is like eating grapes getting Fanta by 20 30 years right now he knows he's been through the trench he knows the business better than us than anyone right up and down and made it to the very top and he probably concluded that the game business is just a dangerous territory and isn't planning to look back steam to me is like a windmill it's like they set it up it works even if you do nothing right and it's providing a very valuable resource so that's the way that's why I see like it lacked a lot of innovation and a lot of change because there like for what we needed it to do it's doing it you know what I mean they aren't trying to fix little things like oh we're not giving out data like we used to or we're you know we're gonna go against review bombs and that kind of stuff but they're not like hey here's the YouTube video explaining all the great feature not they're very reactionary now as a business the only time I saw any types of emotion from them was when epic game stores started

taking away these exclusives from their store and putting on their own yeah and they're like hey that's not fair that's the only time I saw the complaint whine or talk about anything but then they got a benefit of freaking their PR people probably told me some look good game okay I'm gonna whining out there so here's here's one thing I will say the kind of wrap-up my talks on just games pass specifically yeah what I love about it is especially when the new consoles come out if you're a games past member every time a new console comes out I'm sure they're gonna see exponential growth in their games past subscriptions yeah because the value proposition of I'm buying a $500 bucks that has no games on it yet right yeah I'm gonna spend $60 to get one game so now I have a box in one game or I can spend five hundred and ten dollars and have a box with five or six current gen games ninety like Xbox one and maybe 360 games but I'm looking at five hundred and ten dollars to have access to a hundred games day one ready to go

versus sixty dollars just to have one you know to mean you can't beat that value proposition I don't care how you look at it it's it's definitely hard to argue and I'm glad all the services are kind of moving towards this it would help a lot of game companies where they're not having to rely and three hundred million dollars in a game that I don't know if it's gonna be successful or not they can now say like hey you know and more and operate more like a tech business and it's like hey we have this revenue stream how much can we yeah used to support this game by what time do we need to know it's gonna be successful or not there's a lot of things that it helps the game business you know exactly what we need right now because the old way only worked and which is working for double-a studios or indie or anything smaller right which is anything that is sub twenty five people and I would love to see what some of

these contracts look like I would imagine they're like hey this here's how long you can stay and then here is how the percentage breakdown of patronage works cuz I don't think that they just blanketly say each game is gonna get X percent no I think it's more like specially we can track every install right and we'll say you know all they're like 90 percent of our funds goes back to let's just say royalties you were 3.1 percent of all downloads for that product so here is your 3.1 percent of the 80% of all revenue Oh gears 5 you were 22 percent of all downloads so we will give that studio-x percent I would like to sing I would love to see I would like to think look that's how they think in terms of cutting up the piece of the pie but you know there's like five lawyers in between that conversation a minor cash up to up to this mountain hey Ally this is we're not just gonna give them the center of everything during the midnight Peaks there's a lesser percentage for

the first two weeks you get nothing then from then on you're gonna get 5% up - yes - million dollars because anytime there's a new pricing model right there's a new way to screw developers obviously if we're talking about subscription we kind of like champion the Netflix model because they seem very fair with their content creators and then we go all the way to the other side with Spotify and all these music musicians kind of complaining about subscription but even then when I dig into it it's because those people are under a label right and so it's mostly because of their - their music label and that the company or the whatever that represents them is the one doing the this I'll say I'll say this I think that when Spotify came out I went originally like music streaming being so small yeah it looks like such a small revenue source that I can see why a label would be more aggressive in trying to capitalize off of it contracts written

then probably didn't anticipate that like streaming was gonna completely take over patronage or support for those musical products right so like when somebody is like wow my song get played 258 million times to do that outside of Spotify the old-fashioned way that's thousands of CDs or singles purchased in order to if not you know multiple thousands purchased in order to make that happen at 99 cents a pop or $9.99 or however much the album was costing that's a lot of revenue right to know that 253 million streams of a song occurs and then they give you a check for like $4 you know what I mean you feel like you're in screwed label or not like that just that does it sounds more like a middleman problem right it's I think it's a gives you because because there's our musicians that own their songs and they put it on there and they're like yeah yeah I get paid fine let's I would like to see what that fine

relativity is I want to see the like the most optimal I created this song I created this album no one else to pay just me and Spotify I want to know how much that person is like hey my album is on there I did a hundred thousand or a hundred million streams I got 60 bucks you know the mean like I want to know what that breakdown actually is it because the old-fashioned way obviously those people are buying $10 albums $15 albums $20 albums and I'm not gonna shake a stick at the sky and be mad that it's night time instead of daytime like I know change is inevitable and if this is the new way that things happen then you know you have to adapt I just know that people listen to music and expect or demand it to be free or conveniently free Spotify to me is conveniently free that $10 I spend is like a negligible $10 so all that music that I have access to great I understand it I just want to know that like the people who are making me excited about listening to music through Spotify are getting taken care of and not royally screwed record contracts alone I still have a feeling that Spotify is getting like the lion's

share because they're like oh we're just hosting your stuff and we're letting people just rape and pillage and go through your content and then we're giving out shekels you know what I mean while we're keeping elec the lion's share of eight to nine dollars a month in subscription right no that makes sense yeah but that I think that is new territory for the game business and that is what we're looking at for the next two to five years of how game developers get paid in a new way is I think there's gonna be a lot a lot a lot of changes coming a lot of changes some are exciting though like if you can make a really cool game and get a part of like these games past programs yeah think about it you're one out of a hundred yes you're one out of 120 yes you have a much higher chance of making noise and you have a captive audience yes so there's probably still a lot of opportunity there considering okay well fine I want to go straight to steam I want to be one out of 58,000 60,000 70,000 80,000 games that are actually receiving act of patronage mm-hmm a whole different

story yeah well uh that ends it all right thank you for joining us on our games recap again if you are watching on twitch thank you we are on 10 a.m. daily on our twitch channel which is twitch TV forward slash blue underscore champs if you are missing us and if somehow you're watching us you're probably watching us from our youtube channel youtube.com for slash blue chance where you can find our other shows if you want to support us you can subscribe to our twitch prime $5 a month or more appreciate it if you have it go to our patreon calm for slap blue champs to make gains recap an audio version podcasts so you can hear us on your daily commute if you want to buy some shirts or merch go over there as well on a new chance com4 slash merch there and so that concludes everything we got today consider yourselves recapped

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