Jam City’s Rose Agozzino On Powerful Partnerships To Promote Cross-Generational, Ground-Shaking Play

[Music] hello world welcome back to the pocketgamer.biz podcast with your hosts myself Brian Bago and the ever nope I had it in the tip of my tongue there spee no it's just because you're speechless Brian it's just it's an adjective Beyond hyperbole no go ahead I I I was going to say anthropos scene or Jurassic or you know but but that just always sounds kind of rude it's so I'm not implying great age or the fact that you may you may indeed be a fossil I think I'm well ahead of you in those Stakes but I just really want to say hello how are you I'm doing well Brian it's always great coming here doing a show I missed you the last couple times but we're gon to make up for it because we have a massively cool show great guest just very we do you always knock out the park uh I'm very excited for this episode because it's not just all

about mobile video games it's about uh one of my favorite subjects um dinosaurs oh I didn't know that one okay I thought I'm gonna say IP because that's what this is about and we've also talked about it a couple times right you know games and strong IP and what happens when you bring them together and hey that's the topic here as well because it's understanding the power of Ip but also what you can do this really elevates the conversation really opens our eyes because we are marking great IP which is marking its 30th Anniversary as we speak because the topic is Jurassic Park the movie is 30 years and Jurassic world live the game based on this iconic film franchise is uh looking at five years so here to talk about the Partnerships that make the player experience what it is today a category leader I would say category leader as well as our guest because she calls

herself a marketing Wizard and I do not dispute that Rose austino how are you welcome to our show and and and yes your magic how are you feeling on this Bright Day in uh in Canada I think I'm feeling great we've got a one day Heatwave going on right now so our last days of summer just kind of not letting go yet so I'm definitely enjoying that how are all of you I'm good always well so one of the nice things is when we're talking about Jurassic Park we we have to talk in in millions or billions you know in terms of dinosaurs that happens to be years or centuries but for the game it's already starting to rack up some serious numbers so as Peggy said 5 years in uh it's currently been downloaded over 33 million times and played for over 2.3 billion minutes so how are you feeling about it I'm feeling great I mean five years in Mobile is a very long time as the industry just keeps kind of evolving um have we figured out how many Dev years

is a cat year or a dog year you know do we is it seven is it nine are we saying like a Dev year is three years um we need to I think one of the first things we need to also figure out is just how many years is that multiple I I think we're going to stick with seven for dogs perfect um but yeah know we've had really really great celebrations in this past month and these past few weeks and um you know to celebrate five years with the team uh you know we had a big you know Meetup and we just kind of connected and congratulated we had some great experiences for our players in games some gifts some rewards and just generally celebrating you know such a milestone for five years it is and and something that has grown alongside the game and you know while the while the movie is 30 years old I should say 5 years is quite a long time um in the mobile world with things moving and evolving so quickly so we've got a great clip of showing you partying with players and fans uh it looks like quite a monster of a party so how did you

celebrate this personally and and with the wider team so yeah I think we just kind of you know put our heads down we wanted to make sure that we delivered s just such a good experience for our players um so back in June when we officially hit those five years uh we had an entire month-long celebration in game so we had our gifts our rewards special events um new creatures being released and overall we just you know we took the time to our our players because without them they we wouldn't be here we wouldn't be doing 5 years you know and especially a geolocation game in the middle of a pandemic that had lockdowns like that's pretty hard to kind of keep running and with our players we managed to kind of find that Rhythm that made it so that we were able to give them the experiences um you know throughout everything so it's one thing to have the fans involved the players involved but you've also found ways to Forge New Partnerships

right you've linked this whole month of in-game events to challenges so you know you have an action figure in game which is kind of cool the iconic T-Rex is one that players can can win you know they collect DNA it just all sounds very different very very different from the Partnerships that you would originally or naturally expect with this type of a of a um Ann I AR celebration yeah I think you know for a geolocation game the first kind of partnership that comes to mind is you know a location-based partnership and we've seen it with other games you know and we've done those those kinds of collaborations before uh in the past for when the game launched and even when uh Jurassic world Dominion came out last year but our our metal partnership that we did um is like the first outside collaboration that kind of in that um IP Realm and hopefully fingers crossed it's

just the start of this I believe in this point of you know the mobile gaming life cycle live Ops is really what drives um engagement and continuing that return player that retention coming back and so it's at the Crux of what makes a really successful mobile game I you know you need to plan for how are you going to keep players engaged and coming back um and how are you going to build in that routine um for players so that they make themselves a part of you make themselves a part of their daily lives so with Jurassic world Al live being a geolocation game it's a collection game but also really robust in battle and strategy players need those dinosaurs to kind of collect and bring into battle and level up so part of this is really just how do we kind of connect collection based as a partnership versus just come and visit this location and also how do you make that really valuable for the other partner because I'm thinking of of Mattel I think of I

think of toys but this is a digital experience this is a mobile first experience it's enjoyable as I understand it in digital and physical worlds correct yes so part of what made it really unique an opportunity for us as well is that the 93 T-Rex is based on the original T-Rex that was launched um back in '92 with the original Jurassic Park movie um and kind of became a collector's lore and so the opportunity kind of integrated digital first uh version of it and make it so that players around the world are able to access it um you know who might not be able to find the physical version um but they are able to play and not only play with it in the game but also play with it in an AR setting um the team did a great job of doing these animations and these attack modes that you wouldn't be able to get with the you know physical toys so we that digital experience kind of gives just one up um you know being able to collect something that is part

of the Jurassic lore is is fantastic when you have a piece of property piece of Ip with that kind of Legacy that that's a real Heritage and Decades of fans you know multiple generations of fans building out a new experience and something as as different as mobile can can be really challenging um and the fact that you guys are on so many millions and billions of downloads and minutes played really kind of shows that you've you've stayed true but um how did you approach that how did you go from you know the original movie or the movie series um into considering what to include within a game I'm personally a really really big sucker for Nostalgia um I think that this is the era of nostalgia right now we're seeing it not just in games but you know across all the different Industries fashion and food um you know I was just in the US this past weekend and when you walk into the serial aisle all you see are the throwback or the original packagings of products creators on social

they're highlighting a lot of the original '90s and 2000 trends that are just being renamed um for this newer generation and so we're kind of seeing that shift happen over time of like a Nostalgia driven or you know an easier era and I think it's really important for the games as well to kind of be part of those conversations and kind of have that throwback feeling um you know providing that experience that nostalgic feeling of hey I remember when I used to do this when I was younger especially as we see um not just uh our players age with the game you know like CU you know we're we're 5 years old and so different life cycles um but we're also seeing that parents like to play with their kids and so it's that opportunity to be like oh when I was your age you know this is who I this is what I used to play with so when we are looking at kind of any collaborations we want to make sure that the partnership feels natural and for Jurassic world alive we were coming off the 30th Jurassic Park anniversary as well and so we had that built in this Nostalgia that we could

leverage and then we had the opportunity to partner with Mattel we need to figure out a way to make this so that it's seamless um and that it feels right for the players it doesn't feel like just you know something you know we we need to do it and you know we wanted to make it feel like players wanted to experience this you know it's the possibility it's a vehicle to reach entirely new audience as well there's one that's the nostalgic but then there's the other that maybe discovers this for the first time so was that what you saw also in the appeal of this Rose yes so definitely part of that is reaching out to new audiences um and seeing hey if you're a fan of a collector here's an opportunity to kind of collect something in a unique fashion um if you are new to dinosaurs this might be the the dinosaur you're like I need this um so there's different ways to kind of reach out to new and existing players um also anyone who is a big fan of the

franchise maybe this is the again the way to kind of get them into a game with all the changes happening to the mobile industry and the way that user acquisition and growth happens um you know product marketing is looking at different ways to kind of reach new audiences that we otherwise can't get how do you keep them you know engaged there and you mentioned liveops how do we you know kind of fold that into the initial design decisions or is that something you have to kind of know is coming down the road but you're you don't have to deal with it until the game's you know further into development I think from a production point of view knowing how you're going to keep engaging your players beyond that launch window um or update window is going to be I think the Crux of of your your longevity in the the mobile gaming you know so for Jurassic world of Live Again live Ops is such a driver for all our engagement from you know collection to

battle and so part of what makes drastic World alive you know again that geolocation so we're able to distribute over 300 dinosaurs and that that amount just keeps growing every time we release new creatures and we're able to distribute them in ways that are go out on the map and explore or engage in these events where it's exclusive to the event itself and so having this kind of long-term plan of how are we going to be able to keep bringing players back and having them enjoy the experience um you know this is what's going to improve that stickiness this is what's going to improve that whole life cycle of our player just curious what you think was the coolest stickiest most popular sort of event in-game happening or external World question uh opportunity feature that really kept people coming back I think so the way that the game works is that you need to collect DNA shards and then as you collect enough you're able

to unlock the creature and add it to your roster and and engage with it put it in our Sanctuary which is kind of like a little enclosure where you can you know play and and feed the dinosaur and so what we did is we released in sporadic moments um our Mattel creature our Mattel dinosaur on the map so players really needed to go and engage and kind of explore the neighborhood um C certain places it was guaranteed C places you really had to look and fingers crossed um and so because you need to kind of keep coming back to collect enough shards to be able to unlock it it drove that stickiness because you want to be able to unlock it it's not a oneandone it is you know piece it together I want to get to another value here that you bring to the interview Rose is you have been in the trenches yeah you brought in Mattel your IP you know the partner with your IP love to hear how you work through the

benefits for all the parties because I mean it's it's it's complex I don't know how you got in touch with them I mean what was it you sort of like came to them Linked In met them at a party this is not a name that you just sort of pop up and say hi no and I think thankfully we have really great partners with um you know with universal and we have you know great working relationship with them as well and so part of the larger Jurassic uh franchise Mattel is also one of their partners and so we you know were having conversations and we were seeing how we could work together you know was there an opportunity was there something that fit product wise you know for our audience was there something that would work and was there something that would work with Mattel working with Brands is always a little bit tricky there is a lot of involvement and so we want to make sure that all the partners are happy um you know that everyone is aligned with the goals with the expectations and that everyone has signed off everyone who needs to sign

off on the content has seen the content and is aware and you know it's good to move forward it's always a little bit of you know timeline juggling making sure that we're working backwards from when our launch window is to you know there's that way there's less stress um you know and everyone is is good on it was it more than a year in the in the making uh it was close to uh you know just all the pieces from our June our Jurassic celebrations um in June to now this was something that was constantly ongoing for six plus months a valuable lesson for our audience would be how to forge these Partnerships what is a do what is a don't um you know even something as simple as as how to start the conversation what would you like to share Co obviously changed a lot of things and it changed a lot of the you know email to the quick you know the quick hey can you jump on a call um and it also just opened up a lot more opportunities to collaborate because you didn't have to go and and find that

person um you know and schedule that in-person meeting you're able to just kind of hey let's hop on a call and and let's discuss it's just a lot of you know hey I have this idea what can you do to help who can you put me in touch with when you have um such big organizations uh who own such big franchises it must be a little bit like 3D chess in terms of you know where we take this and how we go did did you go in with an initial idea or did you go in essentially going would' like to explore would you be willing to work with us yeah it was definitely more of the exploratory hey this could be cool we're seeing a lot of this happening in mobile games right now um I feel like in the last year and a half 18 months we're seeing more and more of these um you know brand collaborations both with IP based games and owned games um original Ip and so you know we want to be like okay what is something that fits within

the Jurassic universe so obviously working with a partner who already has access to that you know to that content to that franchise and so we were already on the same page you know we're not going through hey this is something that is completely off you know out of scope um you know already working within that uh Jurassic Universe was the first step for us uh I think we've seen more and more you know a lot of the older titles um and not you know again the longevity so we're looking at you know King I think had a ton of Partnerships this past year with Candy Crush and so you know we're just kind of like okay how do we keep exploring that collaboration aspect as Peggy said up front you're you're a wizard you've been doing this for a while so can you kind of walk us through the Journey um even a few steps and and kind of give us any insight into the the sort of the horse trading and the deals that were necessary to get to get this Fant fantastic game over the Finish Line I can't go too much into the

details you know all secrecy and and and some of the magic needs to be you know stay hidden um but a lot of it is you know just kind of talking through expectations talking through kind of what are the forecast and so communication is is truly key in this place we want to make sure again that um no one is going to be surprised uh by the time that the drop date comes we want to make sure that all partners are have you know visibility and understand you know what are the expectations especially if it's the first collaboration in this regards uh you definitely want to be a little bit more conservative a little bit more realistic as you kind of gauge your expectations and kind of gauge player feedback as well depending on uh you know the timelines you have sometimes being able to reach out to the fan base and the player base and also checking in kind of doing a pulse check is this you know you can kind of get an idea of what IPS um or collaborations or just even content in general that players want to see in game um through surveys or market

research um and so it's just a way to make sure that you're aligned with your players and also with your product goals very interesting point I was going to bring that up how to find out about the players so you used user surveys focus groups that sort of thing to sort of like take an occasional temperature check along the way and sort of readjust is what I'm hearing yeah so if the know if the company if your if your game has the means to and has a you know we have dress R life has a very active and involved player base um you know for example we do often Community Choice um thematics and so we ask our players what kind of creatures would you like to see in the upcoming event um and we get upwards you know in the thousands of responses very quickly they're very vocal um and that kind of is a testament to how we've built our communities and how we've built our our communication strategies within our player base so we're able to get that kind of feedback

almost real time um you know we also monitor what players are saying online um you know even if it's just sneaking into the Reddit boards or Discord boards just getting that feedback so sometimes we don't even need to ask them sometimes they'll let us know exactly what you know what they would love to see in the game and you know sometimes the the stars align and and we're able to pull some a it off about the forecasting or what you think is going to happen of course have to be realistic and you said yourself a little bit conservative but she also have to be confident and I know you Rose you're the person who will say exactly what she thinks and I think that there are valuable lessons here for our audience in standing up for what you're confident in you know how to say this is right these are going to be the results or this is how I see this needs to be because hey at the end of the day it's my game too you know your characters your IP is amazing but you know I have this hunch how do you balance that what

are some lessons for unlocking that but still overall keeping the balance in a partnership it is communication it is kind of you know addressing if there are disagreements or if there are concerns it it really is just addressing the um you know the main points of those concerns oftentimes um you know some comments might be hiding um other concerns uh and so something that might you know it it's going less but actually the concern is on the right and so it really is just open communication letting you know just getting into the deep dive and if there are problems or issues or hey you know what we don't think we can do it well it's actually because a timeline is wrong and so sometimes it's just you know aligning and you know figuring out why any pain points could be it takes a team so tell us a little bit more about your team the kind of the skills the background to the disciplines and then also what you're going to be looking for um in the future

to keep this game you know at the Forefront of uh of the mobile Global Mobile Market yeah I think the team um we have a great team uh majority of them are based in Montreal so being able to kind of go into the studio and see them as well and kind of have those brainstorms C collaborations in person and having that you know thought share happen is a really great way to ensure that you constantly have the Evolution and you know you're not just in a silo um you know just kind of thinking of your own things the team we have some members of the team who have been there since launch and we have people who have you know come in over time and so there's this nice mix of you know people who have been with the brand and the franchise who know instinctively what is good and what is not good um you know or what can you know work with our players and with the players expect versus people who are bringing in new ideas and so it is that collaboration of what do players want versus what can

we give them that they haven't that they're not expecting or they haven't seen yet um and so there's a lot of you know kind of bringing in fresh ideas that is really important for the game's longevity and in terms of you know live Ops in terms of you know running this game hopefully for another 5 years possibly for another 72 billion um what is it that you're you're going to be doing next where are you taking us extrs we do have a very strong um you know PVP and uh you know real time player versus player and we have our our guilds and our alliances and so we are looking at ways to kind of um emphasize some of that real-time experience and how to you know play with real-time players in the game and play with your friends or play against your friends um so that is something that should be coming down the line soon so you're in charge of product marketing right um what did product

contribute to marketing because it is about the product it's all about that that experience with the game but um but very creative on top of that so what was that like that uh melding of the minds to bring us this yeah I've got to I Gotta Give a really B big shout out to the product and to the uh our team the 3D team and the 2D teams um on uh Jurassic world alive they are the ones that came up with a lot of these animations so that ferocious T-Rex Stomp and and the breaking of the earth that is all them um and they did a really really great job kind of bringing that toy to life it really is just you know kind of finding content that makes sense from uh an IP base you know that feels like a natural extension um that feels like it's going to be a perfect fit once it comes into the game and so it is having those conversations um through partners and making sure that you know

team is also aligned on the content because we can bring in all the ideas um but if it doesn't fit then it doesn't fit we could carry on um and in fact it would be lovely to carry on but sadly we do have to bring things to to a close and but nobody comes on the pg. biz podcast without getting asked a couple of questions and hopefully you've had a bit of a chance to chew on them because what we're looking for is your favorite game right now and it can be your own you know it maybe not the most creative choice but given everything we've talked about it's a perfectly good answer and then what's your favorite game of all time we did release uh a new title this past summer called DC heroes and villains and it is based on um you know obviously the DC license so I have been having a lot of fun kind of collecting all the iconic uh characters from DC just about to unlock Wonder Woman uh which is going to be a big moment uh for me I do love I do love me some Dian uh and then uh alltime favorite game I

have to say honestly it's probably going to be Donkey Kong on the Atari oh wow keeping it old old old school yes there's there's no wrong answers to this but that that is a very very cool one well Rose you have brought us wonderful memories and also some great insights I cannot thank you enough for joining us today on pg. Biz thank you so much for having so so great connecting with you all this show is all about how to do your job better how to make an amazing game how to Market it and you have a say so if you have a story or know someone we need to shine a light on then we would love to hear from you we want to hear from you we want to reflect the reality of the mobile games Market in all its wonderful complexity and strangeness so if you have any suggestions for us if you have any feedback for us you can always get in touch you can email us at podcast

pocketgamer.biz you can find us on Twitter at PG Biz and you can reach out to us through the pocketgamer.biz website if you're interested in listening to all of our podcasts you can find them at pocketgamer.biz SLP podcast and we would love to hear your thoughts on future shows and we've got you covered on all the major platforms so subscribe to the audio podcast as Brian said look for us on YouTube if you want to read it hey you can do that too because we have a companion post for you as well on the pocketgamer.biz website tune in again for the next edition of the pocketgamer.biz podcast and we look forward to speaking to you in the near future until then I'm Brian Bago I'm peggyanne saltz and that's the wrap until next [Music] week