Integrating Facebook Gaming Services & How to Leverage Facebook Login for Gaming

we've got like an amazing kind of final closing talk from uh facebook gaming services integrating facebook gaming services and how to leverage facebook blogging for gaming that's coming from alessio aristide which is from facebook partnerships and justine rao from awesome prototype don't forget of course that our incredible sponsors our platinum sponsors of facebook mobile xola gold is still from google firebase luna labs and silver is unity and adjust and today's developer toolkit track um has been kindly sponsored by danuvo by odetto um so guys thank you so much for coming today it's been an absolute bonkers day as you've probably seen or checked into at some point or another

but we're really really happy to have you and we're really excited for you to share with us some information about integrating facebook gaming services over to you thanks thanks kelly um hi everyone and welcome to the last session of the day um so very 2021 question do you see my screen thanks for for having us uh it's always a pleasure and be to be on the stage um on this virtual stage uh so today i'm going to share um as kelly was mentioning the latest news around uh the new sdks sdk features that we developed uh specifically for games um last time i was on the stage i think it was october uh we had just launched the gaming services features um which includes facebook login for gaming sharing and new player finder features and uh so i'm going to give you a bit of an update on uh where where the features are at what the progress has been and we also have jit from other awesome prototype here which is one of our early partners tested uh the solution with us

so we'll get a chance to get a firsthand experience on on the onboarding and how they they developed their game features around around some of our um some of our gaming services so uh before before i start like during this video see there's other peeps from uh from facebook gaming who took the stage before me um who shared a a very comprehensive way um of our vision in terms of what how we are we're looking at the mobile gaming industry as an over overall so um from both from insights and marketing perspective on where mobile gaming is going as well as from uh monetization side so you can check them out on demand so do it uh they're very very very very interesting um so the last the last bit to close off is we're talking about platform and on the tech side um you myself i'm malaysia i'm part of the strategic partnerships gaming team uh based in london and we help developers uh with our team achieve better results within integrating

uh with their games by uh with the facebook sdk um both to reach uh new games but to reach new users and to uh to explore new new platforms such as system games canvas and more recently uh cloud games um so today i'll start uh by briefly briefly mentioning uh some some notions about our community and the importance of gaming as a vertical overall for for facebook and the vision for our vision for what's ahead uh we'll then move on to talk about uh specifically gaming services um would log in with specific focus on fb login for gaming which is basically the the foundational layer uh for all the other social features which we'll talk about later um we'll then have the the the pleasure to host the um jit from awesome prototype for a chat on on their experience on onboarding on these these features both in an early stage beta circus six months ago and how is it going now and then we'll close off with some details about how you can get involved how you can get the features on uh on your game um but first let's say

let's take a history ride let's say on the on on the gaming history so um i think when whenever i check where we're at in terms of gaming history it always makes me feel like a lot excited very excited about working in this industry as a gamer but also a bit nostalgic um i think at the beginning here you see 1995 for me was like 1999 2000 um i was a 10 year old spending an insane amount of hours on harvest moon and other early ps titles but gaming was a nerdy niche it was really a niche industry a niche entertainment product um from from a game from a facebook gaming perspective and said if we move kind of 10 years after we started with we started with launch of canvas in 2007. uh saw the farmville era and two years after the introduction of the introduction of fbsdk for games which basically revolutionize the both the way games uh integrate social features and

how people connect with each other on on mobile games as well as from a ua perspective overall uh with everything that came after that this multi-billion uh multi-billion industry multiple dollars industry um we're now uh in a word like today we're in a world where um gaming playing playing a game is a daily activity uh for more than almost 3 billion users so a lot of a lot of people uh esports racking up racking up millions of viewers and gaming started to be really that ubiquitous factor uh in our life in our in our social life so it's a great place to visit a fantastic industry to to to be part of and from from a facebook perspective i think the next our next big bet is the industry's big bad so uh cloud gaming overall um the power of this technology of the playing like how we will power up the playing experiences uh it's still to be figured out where we're figuring it out as an industry as we're talking but um in facebook uh our cloud game platform we

announced it a couple of months ago it's currently us only but it's already showing great results in terms of uh playing watching and connecting so this uh this triangle these three strategic pillars uh they're really pushing forward the industry and uh and the entertain the gaming entertainment overall um and as we develop uh new products these are as well the threes that strategic pillars uh that we are considering when building for uh the the gigantic the big community of of millions of people uh they're interacting with gaming gaming content both in feed and in specifically also in groups when we talk about play we talk about millions of people coming to play every day on facebook both on as i mentioned before instant games canvas and cloud games as well on the watch side we have a lot of people enjoying gaming content from their feed interacting with creators and the communities behind them in very new and exciting ways and lastly the connect or

share pillar is the is where say the strategic home of gaming services and login and all the sdk features and it's really where we're trying to give developers deeper and more comprehensive tools to expand uh their user base their player base organically and it's also giving players new ways to to connect with to connect with each other uh so gaming services is this is the strategic home of gaming services and when we talk about gaming services the first uh big pillar as i mentioned in the beginning is uh facebook is facebook login for gaming uh so this new version of login maintains the benefit of the classic login over the login to everyone that we all know while adding these incremental features that are specifically developed for games um so as with traditional login players will be able to log in quickly with a couple of taps but then the login itself will enable a series of features that we're

building the first of all the first one is player finder which is new ways for people to connect with each other even beyond their facebook network of friends and here the group will be very important and we'll touch upon it uh briefly after uh sharing is another big factor another big feature uh so the possibility to share content on all the different uh facebook family of apps onto facebook apps so not only on facebook but also on instagram whatsapp and facebook groups and more to come we have a lot of features that we're working on uh rewards is one tournament uh where we're trying to um to build upon the success that this feature had on the organic side so now as a page or as a group you can create tournament for uh for for the people to to to uh to interact with this new engaging format and we're trying to build ways uh to build this more natively within games um but let's start with with the deep dive on on login specifically um so as i was mentioning this maintains the benefits of of the classic version

while adding some game specific uh game specific um incremental features so you still be able the experience from a user perspective is kind of the same so you would with a couple of taps uh you're able to create you know to create to create an account you're able to save progress and maintain kind of a current experience across different platforms uh different apps and platforms while as a user having total control of the information that you're sharing with with the developer um specifically login for gaming is part of our broader effort to contextualize social experiences for different ecosystems whether you're interacting with a business or with the games we want you to uh to be really in control of the data that you're as a user of the data you're sharing with developers and as a developer to make sure that the experience of onboarding and requesting different permissions to to talk with our apis in the smoothest way in the smoothest way possible we know that login also is

it's widespread the adoption on vlogging is widespread across different genres um so with the with login for games we end up being adopted with so many different games we wanted to give developers the the players the power to customize their their player name and avatar so make the experience more contextual to the game to the game you're playing so as you can see here from the screenshot players will be able to select between their player name and their play their facebook profile picture every time they log in and customizing their experience whether they're playing a more you know more casual title so you'll go potentially with that with the facebook profile or a more mid core title where uh where the the need the need would be different from a technical perspective uh login is uh let's say suitable for all the major platform and it's very it's based on a very solid um very solid infrastructure uh so first it is based on a separate graph api domain which creates a stronger stronger security and integrity from

stronger from a security integrity perspective um as i mentioned it's also cross-platform so it works on ios android unity and more platforms to come as well and it also allows for cross-platform compatibility with web games on facebook so you can you can you could potentially have the um you sort of cross platform experience with with game web games on facebook um but this is just the beginning so once let's say you integrate login uh this is let's say the first foundational layer to then be able to uh to integrate with the the other features we were mentioning and we will go we'll see some of them uh in-depth now um the first one are player invites um so player invites is a new way for uh for users to find uh new people to play with uh both from their facebook network of friends but also from other other to other buckets of value here you see for example uh people that are they're playing the game at the same time but also people that are part of the same gaming group and this is one uh the first the first entry points

group uh that we are trying to integrate in the in a more sustain in a more sustainable and more in a smoother way um groups is one of the one of the things that we hear the importance of groups is one of the things that we hear the most from developers people players are already kind of creating these bridges between the game and groups for example going to groups to ask for advice uh to look for group uh or to you know just brag about the the progress in the game and so we want to build those uh those bridges uh in an organic way for a player to enrich their experience and to create community around games another way we are trying to uh to this dissipate this kind of organic entry points to groups and to the other uh to uh to other to other surfaces is the gaming activity hub when you create as a player when you create when you log in for the first time with facebook login for gaming uh a gaming activity hub will be populated in your facebook app uh so this is a tab within your within

your facebook app which will have all your player name that you selected and all the content that is gaming related uh be it uh groups gaming groups or games you play or streamers you follow so that's really the gaming home your gaming home uh inside facebook and and from here as well you can you can also join different groups um different groups for the games from the games you're playing one last mention to groups is that as a developer you're able to select uh the group you'd like to to show as in this case the screenshot on the right uh to to best recommend the group that you the you the you know the most active or official group of your game last but not least uh sharing uh so sharing uh which is a feature that allows people to share as i mentioned on to share their content on all the different platforms uh so not only on facebook but also groups on instagram and whatsapp um this happens on an api oh sorry it

doesn't happen on an api but happens happens on dialogue so users are taken to the facebook app with a quick app switch they are able to create the to to create a content to optimize it and then go back uh go back to the app in a very in a very smooth fashion um we're seeing also great great traction with with this feature so we're really excited about uh about seeing how different games would interact would integrate with this uh with this feature uh quick recap on on what we talked about around gaming services so login as the foundational layer uh so it's the one that enables all the other features we talked about friend finder and the group the group's integration within within this feature we talked about sharing and uh brief briefly mentioned about the briefly mentioned a brief mention about all the new features that we're working on and look forward to this space for updates as we're working very hard on on shipping them as fast as possible um but now i'd like to introduce jit to the table um are you here as yet no thank you

fantastic it's a pleasure to have you uh lead producer at awesome prototype which as i mentioned uh is one of the uh i think the first in the mia the first uh the first game in emea with season season 20 now season 21 um that integrated logging for game uh so welcome welcome to it it's a pleasure to have you uh tell us a bit uh a bit about you about an awesome prototype so um awesome prototype is um korlia sports and strategy games startup from berlin it was established in 2017 but at the start of the company it was established as a service company for gameplay prototypes um fortunately the first prototype itself became the first product to launch on the same year and that's a season profitable manager um from 2017 onwards we have had three iterations and like now we are on the latest iteration on season 2021 um at the start it's it the the company was

at least created a bunch of locals from germany it's also the the game was soft launched majorly in germany and currently our loyal base is also in germany um it's only in 2020 we started expanding to across europe as well as latin american countries um at the moment we are not in middle east and not in asian countries yet but that's that's new seas to conquer soon that's fantastic and congrats on the launch of season 2021 thank you so much fantastic to hear um can you talk a bit about the integration how did it go like from an onboarding perspective from your perspective how did the onboarding go and what was your experience uh with with integrating with facebook login to be very honest when the facebook sdk team first pitched us the two use cases that they were tackling and um my team just came back and said those two use cases are real we have problems with it um the first one was uh the gamer login pitch that the

feature pitch that the facebook team did we had use cases from our community itself people saying that okay i'm a guy with family and i don't want to add someone else who i don't know at all to my account right i don't want to show my face to her so there was always this problem that okay my profile showing to another person in the community who is not my friend not my relative no one to me but yes he plays a game that i would like to play it's not comfortable so much and we have had multiple use cases where people would say okay i'll add you to just add into the game after that we'll just unfriend ourselves right so it's a use case it's a very valid use case they they wanted a bit of privacy for their profile personal profile and the second use case um i mean football manager i could call it as a niche when you compare to action football games right it's a smaller niche compared to that in that finding someone to play with you or with

the same interest it's really hard and in that case when you start a new football manager game can you find different players from that niche yeah that's even harder it's just not possible um and before facebook came at this pitch how it happened was we were just pushing the community links um further into the game so that they would come into the community and then start building a relationship over there and then eventually they would add up and then they would start playing together share secrets tips and i know that they have taken it outside the facebook community also to build you know whatsapp groups or small groups like that um but we knew that okay finding friends is just hard and especially with a niche game day zero friend finding is at most needed otherwise you you don't get the players hooked up right and the game is quite deep and the pro football manager we have like premier league one league runs for two weeks right

and the depth of the game you can understand only in two weeks which means it's a long time for them to even go to the depth of the game systems and just not understanding not helping on the early stages is just art um that's where these two features looked potentially the right fit to solve that problems and that's why we were like okay we are on board let's do it right um and when the facebook sdk team came back with technical documentation my team just went through it and said like just it's not consuming our resources at all much we could easily get it done faster being in a startup we we have our priorities right i mean we cannot invest a lot of time um in tech because we still need to run this service um but the implementation was smooth i mean it was not hard enough it was quick um and the facebook team was always there to help us and guide us through it so it was super easy in terms of integration um

we just had a couple of concerns when it was rolling out because we have a loyal base already established how would that migration happen how would the new users go in um as you said we were the first ones to integrate so if something breaks what happens after that right so soft launch period across different time zones the facebook sdk team was there actually to help us in there were a couple of small hiccups but it was recovered super fast and to be very honest we slept well we didn't have huge problems at all with it um and that's the integration was rather smooth and the rolling effects were coming in slowly and we saw big potential out of it yeah that's that's fantastic to hear that you know the use case was real i'm a gamer myself as i mentioned that i face a lot of times the uh you know connecting with facebook friends that you know might not be the best

uh the best the best thing to do in that and to that extent so definitely building something contextual to the gaming experience is something that is uh we're reaping the benefits of it like we're seeing that developers are uh really caring about that uh but in the meantime we see on on the screen there is a uh some of the stats of the success or success story that we publish together um so it would be great to understand how like from a metrics perspective how did the gaming services features impact your bottom line but to be honest the the metrics are already on the screen right i mean you guys can already read that too and but just stepping back and then looking at that metric so for us all of those metrics indirectly is an effect of the gamer login as well as invited together number one just getting people to have their own gamer profile that that gives a certain level of security that okay i'm not exposing my family or friends to others and that just exposed them to saying that okay let me add up this guy

from the community um so without compromising your personal account adding more and more your friends that that itself gave an assurance it's okay to add more friends it's okay to add the pro gamers of the community so what we immediately saw at least from the the moment uh when when the version rolled out um was that we had more session lengths or day 0 to day 3 retention numbers slightly shifting and at first we were doubtful what what's going on and then we understood because they were coming in through the community and they were adding more experienced players from the community itself they're getting onboarded with the complex systems in the game very early on i mean there is an academy system in it there's a scout table system over there they don't know how to train players inside the academy and then pro players from the community who actually popped into the friends

list which they went into the community and asked hey who is this club can i add you up it's very polite you could see it um and then immediately they were onboarded with these complex features and they said okay wait for it for six hours you'll get an item use it like that use this item this is the tip when you see the star has become i mean the player has become this much trained you should use them into your team it started flooding that that's very critical when you look at uh retention from day zero to day three because you're trying to know how deep this game is right um and they are getting retained as well as the session length is also quite high that means they are spending more time in it um that's that's the clear indication and a couple of weeks when you look into it and suddenly you kind of see that okay your conversion rate is increasing um that means they're trusting the depth of the game they understand the need to push their limits they want to go faster on certain areas

and they start to convert on that error aspect and then suddenly when they trust that even more you start to see more and more users from that time zone coming into place and then you're like okay the virality effect there the virality is getting interesting you could see it from the community i mean at least our community manager constantly comes back and says i don't know whether this is a spam or not i can see a lot of players who already have connections inside the community coming more frequently right now right so you could already see the virality going and of course data wise also you could see that this player is coming from an invite from one of the players who are already in the system um that actually gave us a huge uplift in the organic installs um and of course because of the conversions your average revenue uh per daily active users that also started showing a push um which all the more shows that they got at least a taste of the game and it's depth

quite faster and in in today's age where ua costs are skyrocketing uh because everyone is competing for the same audience and out of the organic users getting them on board it's super hard um i think tools like this just helps us to build a better community and and just have better tools to better build a better community that's super that's fantastic to hear especially like you know the the effect on the revenue as well is uh is definitely uh is definitely something very very big you mentioned community a lot and i know you you've been you've been building this partner clubs which is you know a feature uh developed around the concept of friend finder so we would love to understand how you thought about it and how is friend finder with player invites kind of helping you shape a feature specific feature for the game so to be very honest the starting of this feature comes with the root of awesome prototype it's them the name um

and then we prototype first test it with our audience and then see how we can take it further so when we put in front finder into season 20 at that point of time it was just a friend list um you could just find a friend through the friend finder come back and um and then player friendly when you don't have your real matches and gain a bit of rewards from it so that you can build your team for the next big league match um what we instantly understood as i said before you you could connect to pro gamers from the community right it's an instant push now when you can get access to those our first thought was can we build a gameplay around it and that that's where it started we started building a couple of features around it we were thinking that okay in real life i mean at least for season 20 we always keep it as a real life comparison in real life every football club has a partner club or a friend club whenever

there is one club's match you know the other club supports the other club's fans support this team so we were like okay can we get that feeling into it because now when we can find a friend club then it's much more easier right so we started building this feature now it is called as partner clubs where you have you can there is a six slots of partner clubs you can assign to and they have to be active right they have they can give you support for your next league match and based on the level by which how experienced you are inside the game the support increases which means the fans would support you more for your next match which means you get a bigger advantage in winning those badges so um the critical aspect came in like okay i have to maintain five clubs in that slots if one of them don't give do that kind of activity i have to kick him out which means i have a slot free can i get a new one oh friend finder helps me with that so immediately that you know the game

system started um uh to plug in well with friend training feature and it's not long ago we pushed this feature out it it just got launched with season 21 um in december now two two months down we are getting very good feedbacks back from it we are kind of getting in into a way where very strong clubs are collaborating with each other and time to time if one of them don't really play because of x reasons they would just say okay i'm just going to get another club to play with me right so there is a huge activity uh among the gamers that we see the same thing happens with even uh new players coming into the game they're getting onboarded super fast they say ah i have i'm at level three in division um can i get a division three club to play with me my strengths of the team is like that we'll have a equal team and we can have fun playing

friendlies and i can support you for the next thing so i could bring in a lot of community stories like that just threads of stories um where a lot of managers or our players politely ask can we collaborate together um which actually is kind of funny and weird as well as a happy moment for us that we have seen a couple of our managers um before the coronavid um you know going to club having a drink and then putting back into the community saying that okay we find them we found them through friend finding right um it's it's it's gratifying but again that the feature is not so uh old we just pushed it out only two months ago we'll see how it takes us uh to the next level i think it's it's evolving every day it's evolving um and we'll wait and see yeah yeah also on our end it's it's a work in progress like we're we're co-creating these features with

the with the industry so but it's fantastic to hear for example when you mentioned that it's useful when the intent is high and as i mentioned in the beginning i think especially the integration with groups when you know when you're looking for group when you know you know you're building your your five like i play a lot of mobas uh and when you're looking for that fifth person you you need it right now so in that specific moment being able to expand and to use to tap into the audience of an entire gaming group uh that's exactly where uh where we think this feature will be useful so it's fantastic to hear that that it actually is then eventually down the line um fantastic just thanks so much for for everything i think i would close with one last question uh what what's next what what would you like us to to build and what what what is it what it is what it is that you're focusing on uh how what what do we look after for so one of the biggest challenges at least last year when we were going through okay how can we improve the social systems in

in season football manager um we came to one one one particular feature it might not be a big challenge for pc or console game development teams to do this but in mobile it's quite hard the feature was streaming the game while you know come and doing a country on top of it because traditionally any football lovers they love having this pre-match discussions what should be the strategy what should be the lineup what should be the tatak and how it should play around and then while seeing the match yes most probably didn't play out the way they imagined it to be and then you have a post match you can call it as analysis sometimes i call it as aggression because we see that a lot in the community too there is a post-match analysis right um and from our users i mean we have again stories from the community where players just grab their devices if they

have matched together unfortunately they were pulled in together and they would sit together with two devices they both are looking at it and they they talk to each other about that match and then they have this huge arguments or discussions and from our competitors we have seen a lot of video footages where um they actually have this this conversation captured and they go live and there are streamers who actually stream that out and players i mean a lot of people want to watch it right um that's that's the next challenge that we would like to pick i mean again it's it's exactly like i said before and you also uh mentioned it again we are taking use cases from our community or from our loyal base we are taking the exact use case that they want and we are trying to put it in the best fit um and so i say streaming that's that's the next big bet for us that's a dream that's a dream yeah but we started we started we started by mentioning you know play watch connect it is like this

this perfect triangle of someone playing and then you know connecting with people over you know watching other streamers and then joining the the game so that's definitely where we're headed and it's great to to have you on board for for for this fantastic adventure so um thanks so much jit for for for your time and for your great insights thanks thank you so much thank you everyone have a good evening um so um at this point i wanted to touch briefly uh on how to get the gaming server gaming services features and specifically you know facebook logging for gaming um at this point the features are like you need first of all you need the facebook sdk um once you need once you have the facebook sdk you can go on on developers on fb.gg on our developers hub to check what are the uh the steps you can take to um to onboard on these features you can always contact us uh your facebook your facebook team we're always happy to happy to help and understand how we can help you integrating uh integrating these features in your

game um and that's pretty much it from my end um thank you so much for that guys that was really informative and it's quite interesting to see actually the journey with which facebook gaming is traveling that that is super fascinating to me i am a fan of the original facebook gaming but it's really kind of evolved massively since then it's a super big deal alessio so congratulations to you and your team a couple of questions we've got anyway to kick us off um how is the new login for gaming experience changing with the upcoming ios 14 requirements okay um it's not changing as in what we did with ios 14 is we we were rolling out on nine point sdk 9.0 these two different versions of login and and the same thing will happen for gaming login so um whether you're if you're if you're a game let's say login will be

gaming login so nothing nothing really changes whatever happens for from sdk 9.0 on uh that's what will happen as well for for gaming login so it's a very easy transition super thank you and um another question is will existing logged-in users be logged out when the integration gets set up in the game no thank thankfully no we that's that was a point that we we spent a lot of time on and as jit was mentioning before we were able to uh make this transition as smooth as possible so users are not there they don't need to authenticate again once you your game transitions to uh to gaming login so again a very smooth transition also for users thank you um we've got a few more questions if you've got the time um dan says i have a few word-based games so it would be good to find a partner clubs in the same country is that possible so that's with word-based games yeah i

think it's a very it's a very interesting question i think partner clubs is i don't know i don't know if it's a trademark of uh uh of season 21 uh but i get i i get the the point so i think the the best way but i'm just brainstorming here i think would be interesting to um potentially link the group uh i imagine you would have specific language language based groups on facebook so you could integrate those within the friend finder and the player invites flow so a person will join the group uh of that specific country the country you're playing in for the game and then from there you can you know invite people that are part of the group and you know play uh most likely uh talk the same language great and then another question that we have is will we be able to do extensions like on twitch as i mentioned that's that's the dream um that's one of our in our you know in our bucket list of things that we're

working on uh i don't have an eta on when this will be possible but that's definitely uh that's definitely something that we are that we're working towards great thank you what do you think some of the pain points um are that facebook gaming is able to solve for both indie developers and maybe more professional developers that can't be solved by other distribution platforms that's me being nosy by the way i think i think the most as a as a gamer myself i think the most um the the thing i struggle when trying new games like knowing those first days is trying to to connect with people otherwise the experience most of the cases is pretty it's pretty pale right so adding those people having those connections and being being able to create that community really adds up something else to the game uh and when you when you're relying only on your network of you know how to connect people i think it can be very cumbersome very very tough for for for a single game to

uh to basically create a social graph um so it's very interesting i think what would the the the easiness that how i don't know if that's a word but like how how easy it is to transition to integrate with this game and tap into this you know gigantic audiences of gamers that are so entrenched with each other you know the groups and um as i mentioned people are already jumping on and off the game from the game to the group uh to create this community so uh being able to quickly uh uh you know with minimal coding required uh to to being able to build these breaches between games and like people players games and communities uh it's it's the best it's i think it's the uh is the best advantage so in the advent of like roadblock roblox and um and uh facebook oculus do you see like there's a convergence point around the metaverse with how we will use community to develop these game ideals if you like moving

forwards in the game industry where the player becomes the kind of master of their own destiny if you like do you see that happening do you see that convergence i i really hope that happens sooner than later it's like i'm playing i'm an oculus player myself and um there's a lot of games player one is like there's um games that are already moving towards that direction i think there's a let's say a not a blocker but like we need to we need for the technology to be the the guiding wind and we know 5g and the stronger devices you know we've heard these these elements a lot of times but i think once we tip the technological uh kind of turning point uh all these experience then the limit is just imagination like what what you know the developers around will be able to uh will be able to ship into into fantastic games but uh definitely i think like from from world of warcraft to uh to all the games that we're seeing right now the the kind of uh kind of metaverse is

already there we just need some uh some kind of technological bits and pieces to to be added to that to make it super super immersive what a brilliant point to end on thank you so much alessio and thank you to jeff for taking taking part you