Embracing Esports for Small to Medium Sized Studios | Develop:Brighton 2024

All right. Hi and welcome to this presentation. As you can see, it's about embracing esports for small to mediumsiz studios. But before I start, I want to give you a quick introduction about myself. My name is Neils. I'm a lead audio designer at Giant Software and I joined Giants in 2021 as audio designer after my bachelor's degree in music technology. And the reason why I'm giving this talk is because I also joined the event team being mainly responsible for the audio engineering part, but I'm also part of developing the esports mode over time. What I do on a daily basis is uh my team and I we are responsible for the whole audio pipeline of the Farming Simulator games. Um, so we do the in-game audio, post-prouction for the videos that we release, but also the uh live audio.

So, let me introduce ourselves. So, Giant Software, I think most of you may have heard of us already or at least of our games. Uh, we are developers and since Farming Simulator 22, also publishers of the Farming Simulator games. Our latest release, the Farming Simulator 22, has sold over 6 million units in total. and we have over 1.1 million daily active users. Uh the game is available on six platforms, so PlayStation, Xbox, PC, everything you can imagine. And we just reached a major milestone, which is more than 1 billion downloads of extra content. Our game is highly modable, so people out there create mods for vehicles, maps, whatever you can imagine. And we just reached that 1 billion mark. Uh, our game is localized in 20 plus languages and we are available in 165 countries. So now that you know that we are this, did you also know that we are this? [Music]

I'm ready to play now. Put me in the game now. I came here to prove it. I'm ready to do it. I can't be afraid now. Put me on the stage now. I'm ready to rage now. I feel like an animal stuck in a cage and I'm ready to break out. So what are you afraid of? Those feelings are made of. Get in the game. Your moment of fame. Show them what you made of. It's time that we stand up. It's time that we man up. For anyone asking who is the best we putting our hands up. My time. My time. None of you people can tell me to stop this time like the last time. You better get ready to race. I'm ready to do this. Show you what the truth is. I step on the field. It's time to get real. I'm feeling so ruthless. My none of you people can tell me to stop. Lower the lights down. Hand over my crown. Hand over my heart. I do this for my town.

Pretty epic, right? Before I continues, who of you knows that there exists an esport mode for Farming Simulator? Hands up. Anyone? Oh, yeah. At least at least someone. Okay, cool. So, the Farming Simulator League, I will just call it FSL. It's our very own esports league. And uh quick explanation how the game works. There are two teams playing against each other on an identical map. Each team consists of three players. And what they do is they harvest wheat with a harvester. And when you harvest wheat with a harvester, you get grain and straw. Out of th that straw, you then have to create bales, and you have to deliver those bales into a barn, and whoever scores more bales uh after 10 minutes wins the game. Uh there are some drops in between, which makes it more interesting, but that's the basic concept. Uh at the moment, we just finished season five at our own convention, the Farm Con. You can see a picture here on the very left. Uh it was

at Fent in in in Germany and we had around 4,000 visitors. So it was quite impressive and we played the finals of the season 5. Each season lasts one year and so far we've given away a prize pool of over 1.3 million euros. Um and of course we have esports teams playing our game and competing uh in our league. But those of you who think of esport teams might think of guys like this. So, the typical esport teams that compete in League of Legends, Counter Strike, like Team Liquid, SKT, ROG, whatever. But our teams, they look a bit different. They look like this. And if you're not really deep into agriculture, you probably have never seen those icons before. Um but yeah, we do have normal esports teams competing in our game like my Insanity for example, but most of them actually are sponsored by agricultural companies or manufacturers. And uh think about

watching your favorite brand competing against your mo most hated brand. That's actually a thing also in agriculture as it is in soccer or any other sports. Uh in Germany probably Fent is the most famous uh brand. What is it here in the UK? any anyone John Deere let's take that awesome um yeah and the teams are sponsored by those agricultural companies and they compete in their name so let's come to the main topic of this talk why esports and why it probably good idea for you to approach it as well um first of all competitive gaming always has been a thing and probably always will be a thing um but when I say competitive gaming most of You might think of games like this, like Rocket League, League of Legends, just to name a few. Um, if you're a bit older, you might have seen the picture on the very left here. It's called Pong. And even though I'm a bit younger, it was still the first game

I had my hands on and played competitively because my parents had a console. And um yeah, if there were games where you could not compete directly against each other, there were at least things like high scores, games like Sonic for example. Um and I bet most of you still remember the latest high score you had in the game with a high score system. Uh what I want to say is players, they love to compete. They always did and they probably always will. sometimes directly, sometimes via high score, or sometimes just by bragging out how they did a Mario level without missing a coin, for example. For me personally, it was for example Starcraft 2. I was deep in the competitive scene. I also reached like top 2% of Europe back in the days. So, what I want to say is probably most of you have played a game competitively to one extent. And this brings us then to the main topic of this talk which is the power of esports in marketing. And

just to give you some numbers here uh esports is huge. In 2022 more than 530 million viewers watched esports. Half of them call themselves enthusiasts. The other half are like occasional viewers. Also, the average age of a fan is at an age of around 26 and 60% of the people watching are between 16 and 35 years old. So, that's a pretty young audience. And this is a huge amount of people and depending on your game, they some of them or even most of them have never heard of your game before, like Farming Simulator. So, this means that potentially 530 million people could hear about your game and might also like to compete in it. And while we're streaming, people wrote in the chat, "Why the hell am I watching people stacking bales and I start liking it?" And it's not only that, esports is also about emotions.

Emotions bind us. Emotions, they make us remember. They play with us subconsciously. Uh, pick any sport you know nothing about. For me, for example, it would be basketball in the US. Go to a stadium, sit right next to a team, and just observe how their emotions influence yours. You start to become part of the team. You start to cheer when they cheer. So, emotions are bonding, and if people bond with your game, they probably are way more likely to stick with it. And in the end, buy more DLCs, base games, whatever you have to offer. But of course when there is a lot of potential like the potential to reach 530 million people there are hurdles to overcome and since we launched the Farming Simulator League we faced many of them like really many and these are the biggest. On the development side we had to develop uh an esports mode because

Farming Simulator as you can imagine was not competitive at all. People wanted to chill. They wanted to drive the tractor, build their farm. Um, but they didn't compete. They found ways to compete by theirel, but not in esports mode that we wanted to present. Uh, then we had to create a server architecture behind it because usually when players play our game in multiplayer, they play in co-op. So, they rent their own server for example and play with their friends. Uh, but also not competitively. Then we also had to create a tournament client on our website. So where you can see stuff like standings, schedule, patch notes, whatever you can imagine. On the organization side, uh we had to convince players to try it out. And that was a hard one because our players typically are not esports players. Uh as I mentioned before, they want to chill, want to build their farm. Um so we had to come up with something to convince them to play the game. Um they also had to form teams by themselves but once we

had them convinced to try it out they basically uh form teams by themselves and it was not that hard anymore for us. Uh then of course we had to find the right hosts and uh casters and the right events. So if you want to have it offline or online if online it's of course uh the cheaper version but if you want to go offline you can find or you should find the right events. For example, the events where esports maybe is not that big so that your esports really create buzz. When I talk about buzz on the marketing side, we had to create visibility. And that actually was not that hard as we thought it would be because when people heard about, hey, Farming Simulator has uh an esports mode, they were kind of already like what? And tuned in. So when we launched season one uh we had three quarter of a billion impressions on our posts. Uh yeah then of course we had to find partners and sponsors because as you can

imagine uh creating an esports mode from nothing is quite an financial investment. Uh yeah and we needed support on that. On the tech side we had to get a stage setup or if it's only online a caster desk setup. So, for example, when we are at Gamescom, we didn't need like a huge uh stage to show our game, but now with the esports mode, we need like three players sitting on the right, three on the left, casters in the middle. Um, so we need a setup for that. We of course also needed the broadcasting hardware and software. And I can tell you it's quite a complex construct on the tech side. Uh, because we have live streams in German, in English, sometimes even translated to other languages. We have the live event on a big LED walls. Um, so yeah, we have our tech colleagues that really took do did a great job in that. All right, let's talk about strategies for a successful indie uh integration. In the end, we pulled through and today

we strongly believe that the FSL opened a door to a world we weren't part of before. And if you ask our players out there what they think about Farming Simulator, they most of the time still don't believe that we actually did it. Uh even there were articles on websites about us where we never thought that anyone would write anything about us. So how did we do it? We did some market research and we ask simple and sometimes not so simple questions. So who are our players? As I said, most of them they don't do esports. They want to chill. But we we had a core who was interested in competing also on their own. Uh what is entertaining to watch in our game. This is hard because only plowing a field for 3 hours straight is probably not that entertaining. But we tried something out at the biggest fair, the biggest agricultural fair in Europe, the Agri Technica, uh which is called bail

stacking. It's basically uh six players inside a tractor, a front loader attached and a fork attached and eight bales spawn around a trailer and whoever stacks the bales the fastest onto the trailer wins. And uh yeah, people really liked it. So we thought, hey, bail stacking should be like the main part of our game. How are people already competing? Um, as I said, if there is not a competitive mode, they will find ways to compete in it. In Farming Simulator, for example, it was whoever harvests the field the fastest wins or whoever earns more money in one in-game day wins. So, they will find ways. Um, how would we show that? We want it to be like the big ones like Counter Strike and stuff. So, we want to have professional streams um and a professional appearance uh on the outside. How will it be interesting? So again, that was hard, but we got so much

positive feedback from uh the bail stacking mode that we kind of took that into account and created a new esports mode around that. Then should it be online or offline? As said before online is the way cheaper version but we wanted to really that viewers can can see the teams talk to them cheer for them that we are again at the topic of emotions people they need to bond with the team and with the game. All right now a creation of a client needs to be done and has to be delivered. So once we had these things figured out, we sat together with our developers and came up with the first concept of the game. So therefore we had these five steps. We needed a new client or adjustment to the existing client. So for example, we need to tweak a little bit the physics uh of the tractors uh to make it uh to our esports idea that we had. Then we thought all right, how do we show the action? So we went back

adjusted a client again and went back to the next question again. Uh then how do players see it and how do viewers see it? Even though those two question might might sound quite similar, they should be really processed completely different because the players they of course should not see what the opponent is doing. They should be able to create strategies around their game and the viewers they should see like an epic stream, an epic event. They should see what team A does, what team B does. And um yeah, that's how we approached these questions. And then the most difficult question of course at the end, is it fun to play and watch? And that is very difficult as well. We have to work with a lot of feedback here. What can we improve over time? And I cannot tell you how many times we went through those five questions. We we still do. We usually do it after each season but sometimes even if we need

balance changes for example uh we go through these questions during a season and have to adapt to what is happening in the league. All right. Once we had a client or game mode we were happy with it was finally time to talk to partners. So we started talking to esport organization or influencers both the ones that were already covering our game but also pure esport influences and of course to potential sponsors like Noble Chair, Intel, Logitech, but especially the esports influencers who like never probably never heard about our game uh helped us tremendously because they could reach people that we couldn't reach like the esports people. So they opened a door for us uh or a door to people that probably have never heard of our game before and uh start to play it. But being an agricultural game also gave us the opportunity to approach companies from the real life farming

side and depending on your topic of your game in what kind of niche you are maybe there are companies that would like to join and help you with that as well. So we had a client, we started reaching out and things started to come together. So it was finally time to build a community and with the league on the horizon and big money to win. Uh some players from around the world jumped in and became part of the community. But not only them, a lot of our core players also at the beginning didn't want to compete started to compete and form teams around our esports mode. So we created a let's call it sub community. This is not really part of the farming simulator community but somehow they are let's say they are on their own island. And last but not least we had to work on the viewing experience.

So we wanted to have streams like the others professional on every platform where they're streaming as well. So, we need good casters and we used to find esport casters that got interested and even influencers that already played the game. Um, both of those casters or yeah, we wanted to go for a hybrid version. So, we wanted to have one caster who knows the game, knows tactics, knows strategies, and we wanted to have one casters who just knows how to professionally cast. We thought that's a good combination. And those two casters then were sent to a boot camp in Berlin uh to learn from the professionals. And I have a cool story just that you can imagine how such a boot camp works. Um during lunch they went out to Caba Place uh with the coach and the coach said all right now just imagine that is an esports here and do esports commentary on how he cuts the meat and how he like creates your kebab. And so they did it

and it was quite funny and cool I gotta say. And because this is what they Yeah. Because this is what they have to do during production, right? When you see like 15 seconds where a truck is just driving from the left to the right, it's not that interesting, but they have to make it sound interesting to uh keep the people hyped and attached to the stream. And lastly, our community team took the time on the weekends or at events to do some chat interaction, especially to keep new players attached to the game when they have questions like, "What the hell am I watching here?" or um yeah, they also do stuff like surveys, giveaways. We always give away like an expansion or DLC or whatever when we have tournament. And it worked. However, as probably Steve Jobs would have said, there was one more thing we wanted to do. and that was offline events. We wanted to be able for the viewers to cheer for their team, to talk to them after the event to really create that bond between

the viewers and the teams. And now today, the FSL has tournaments in Germany, Switzerland, Poland, the UK, and France. And we're always looking to expand. And these events gave us huge amount of visibility and a crazy amount of like what this is actually a thing moments and they still do. So we still get even today I got the question what there's an esports mode. Um yeah let's at the end quickly talk about marketing integration. So on the social media integration side what you can do is you can use platforms like Twitch, YouTube or Facebook to live stream your esports events. You can or you should probably promote those events on your brand social media that you can reach a broader audience and you can create videos of highlights and clips. You can share memorable moments or some fail compilations. Um yeah, work with the

video team together to create videos. On the content marketing side, you can shoot behind the scenes content. So for example, how we build up the stage over time doing a time lapse or um how the preparation process goes. Then you can do interviews and profiles. So for example, you can pick the player of the week because he did like an amazing crazy play at the beginning and you can create an interview or a profile about him. On the offline marketing side, uh it's useful to set up a booth or activations at your live sports event. uh that just provides a little bit of physical presence and face-to-face interactions. Then of course you can sell merchandise branded with in our case for example the team icons or um you can sell accessories, collectibles, whatever you have to offer. But there is more on the social media integration side. Uh you can use your existing game to promote the new game or any upcoming events. uh you can offer

exclusive in-game items like uh small transactions which may drive in-game um sales and brand loyalty. On the content marketing side, uh you can send out newsletters or email updates about upcoming events even about players of the week for example and this exclusive content can then be released on your website and can be shown to the gaming community. On the offline marketing side, again you can engage the audience by organizing esports related contests for example like predicting tournament outcomes, doing raffles, doing giveaways. Another opportunity or possibility is to have interactive live streams. So you can host Q&A session polls uh during esports live events to encourage like a real time uh engagement with your esport mode or game. All right, let's come to a conclusion. So embracing esports can open doors to new opportunities and a broader audience

ultimately contributing to your long-term business success. And implementing esports needs time, effort and as I said quite a bit of financial investment depending on the scale you want to go for. And if Farming Simulator can be esports, I think probably everything can be esports if you are brave enough. And don't forget it's also a lot of fun. All right, then I just quickly want to if you want to have a deeper look into the farming simulator into the FSL, there's a cool video from a YouTube channel called People Make Games. Uh there's a guy who followed the New Holland team for quite a while and gives deep inside views of how they prepare, how they play, and how they are handling emotions. All right, thank you a lot. If you have any further questions, let me know. [Applause]

Yes.
Thank you very much. First of all, I just want to say thank you. That was absolutely fascinating and and I I can't quite decide if it's insane or genius or or a bit both, but it's fantastic to see in here.
Agree.
I guess you mentioned a lot of the tensions in terms of your incumbent user base, their personalities, their ch obviously and and as you address Farming Simulator doesn't necessarily, you know, it doesn't scream, you know, competitive gaming in that sense.
What drove you guys to make the decision of let's let's try to make this happen, I guess. And also were you not worried about alienating your your core game you know core gamer group in terms of this thinking oh why are they focusing on this and not challenging you know channeling energy into
yeah I think uh
maybe one
we did some as I said before we did some market research and we heard the number

like 530 million people who are watching esports and there's still many people who don't know about our game and we wanted to kind of bring them in attach them and reach those 500 13 million uh people. That's basically That's basically it. Did that answer your question? So, so you mean if we did anything to bring the player our player base to the FSL?
I guess were you worried about it at all? You know, were you kind of thinking actually could this could this really backfire and and our core user base would would all of a sudden perceive us as trying to be going after something that
doesn't necessarily relate to our core game and and and you know that part of the decision- making and consideration.
I think to be honest, not really. Uh we of course there's also risk that the whole thing fails. Um but as I said

there were so many people that when they heard about this that we are doing esports league they were just like wow okay and they tuned in and start liking it. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you.
Um thanks for giving the talk. Um again I'm I'm in the same cap. It's pretty um fascinating like what you've done. Um so my question is on um influencers. So you said about you reached out to ones which weren't directly um related um to to your game. What was the incentive um that you gave or even the pitch um to actually get them on board and start streaming?
So do you mean the esports influencers or the influencers that already covering our game?
Uh the ones which weren't covering your game.
Covering your Yeah. We we basically told them about the esports mode and they gave us this moment which I talked about that like what that's a thing and they got really interested so no one really

said ah no I don't want to do it so yeah they were super cooperative and and helped us immediately yeah
great thank you thank you
yes
I just wanted to understand how did you measure the impact of
and to add to that. Uh does sponsor sponsorship cover most or like offset most of the cost of running these tournaments?
Yeah. Um I have to say actually that our events they uh even make money. Um and we just pitched our esports mode to the partners that we have. So for example, season 5 was sponsored by Helm, which is big agricultural company in Germany. Uh beforehand, I think it was season 3 was Corteva. uh also a huge brand and uh I mean it's I think it's a win-win situation. they get visibility and uh we get financial investment in that and they were absolutely willing to do that. But we also have like smaller sponsors

for example uh Elton they basically create shoes as well and we have an agreement with them for example they kind of sponsor our esports mode a little bit but we have to wear their shoes when we are working at events so they get visibility to that as well. Yeah. So it's essentially like another stream of revenue rather than like a direct impact on the game itself. For example, like an influx of new players.
Exactly. I mean, it's not really completely separately.
Mhm.
Cuz if they sponsor uh the FSL, they probably always have an agreement that they have a banner in our main game. Um but usually, yeah, you can can separate that. Um, how does this interact with your mainline games? So when you update that one or make a new game, does the competitive game stay in place? Is it like So it's like developed completely separate from it?
Yes. Yes, it's completely uh separate.

We although the esports mode is integrated into our main client, they are still two completely separate things. So if we want to update the base game, we just update the base game. If you want to update the esports mode, we just update the esport mode.
Uh I have a question. When did it started? How how old is this project?
And how many people are uh in a team of this export?
Yeah. So thanks Pedra. We just uh we started 2019 with season one. Uh which by the way was first of all it was just online at that time but later on we decided to go offline. Um how many teams we have? Um so the teams that are competing in our league are pro probably like 20 to 30 teams competing in our league. Uh but there are many teams that played competitively but don't sign up for the tournament.
Ah like in in for giant software
we don't are not allowed to take part.

Yeah sadly not. But that's a cool one actually because uh some companies like for example Herman they make big sheds in a real life agriculture. They have a team that consists only of employees of of Herman.
Yeah.
Um okay I'll go. Um I'm over here on your left.
Oh sorry mic.
Yeah. No good. Um, so I was just kind of interested in what your experience has been with engaging with um, like the agricultural brands because I think uh, with traditional esports, like the bigger ones, it tends to be, you know, companies that are already in the scene and aware of it, you know, tech companies and stuff. But it sounds like you've done a really good job of um, you know, engaging those agricultural brands that aren't that don't necessarily understand the scene. So, what's your experience been with engaging with them and like educating them on the scene and like
So, uh didn't quite get it uh acoustically.
Uh sorry. So it was basically like how the agricultural brands

see it when you approach them to pitch it.
Yeah. Uh actually they love it because they get a lot of visibility through it. We have quite a few of viewers in our live streams and also at live events. The booth is always full. Um so and how it develops is kind of there separate ways how a team forms or gets sponsored. either the team is that good that really the manufacturer approaches the team and say hey I would love to sponsor you. So they already heard about the FSL and said hey I want to sponsor your team. Um but also sometimes a company approaches us and says hey I want to be part of that. Can you please reach out or connect us with some players uh that we can sponsor this team?
Cool. Thanks. Thank you. Hi, thank you very much. I'm here at the back. Hi. Um, I I will just go out of the uh usual conversation a bit. It says

you are hiring. What I am interested in is that how did you get people to work for you or work for this game because you are doing something completely different. So it's not a traditional uh game field, you know, young people are interested in developing. So how did you convince them to work for you?
So how we convince people to work for the Farming Simulator League? Is that
developing the game?
Uh yeah, it's completely we done by us internally. So people that already work at Giants, they worked also on the esports mode. So it there weren't additional people hired for that. Okay, thank you.
Welcome.
Yeah, uh thank you for the talk. That was that was really fascinating. Um I'm just wondering from a more traditional

esports perspective. Um there are certainly like moments in in normal broadcast where you have the highs and you have the lows and the lows sort of drag along and that's actually quite an important part of of like say something like Dota 2 where you have the moments that the carriage is farming and people sort of on the side. Um and this is where you introduce a lot of things like infographics and these other things that that help you ride that low which is important to have and from the sounds of it exists. Um do you use any of of this sort of thing? Do you do you have like a team doing data analysis and producing infographics and things like that?
Um so our solution for that is really to have good casters cuz for us still it's tough to uh as you said if a track tractor or a truck is driving 15 seconds it's not that impressive. So people get like oh come on come on. Uh so no the casters will completely have to hype it during that time that time. What we do is on the tech side, we have stuff like

uh how is it called again? It's a special screen layout where they can see some more interesting things.
An overlay,
sorry.
Like a like an interface, like an overlay.
Exactly. Yeah. Um but yeah, that's basically how we approach those those things.
Hello. Um thank you so much for the talk. Uh, I think it's really fascinating that you designed a a completely separate kind of game because a lot of people tried to incorporate it into the existing game. So, that's really cool. Um, I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about your transition from offline events to in-person events and like how that went and did you outsource people to kind of host those or was that part of
Yeah.
You know, the company?
Yeah. No, it's it's really everything is is done by ourselves. So, we have a dedicated event team. So we even have two trucks and two trailers with all the stage set up. So basically one week before for example Gamescom, we go

there, set up the stage and be ready for the event time. Um yeah, so we don't hire anyone externally. It's all done by us.
Did they have sort of knowledge of esports prior to this or
I wouldn't say so. It's more about events where they have knowledge. We have an event manager and two event coordinators and they know how to set up a stage, how to do the lighting, the audio and stuff. Um, yeah, but esports that's all come came through feedback and experience. Yeah, thank you. Welcome.
Hi, thanks again. That was super interesting. Um, so my question again hearkens back to some of the sort of classic esports titles we've seen over the years. um they tend to be competitive games by nature and so they don't really need an esports scene built around them. It's baked into the game and people want to be competitive.
Um more recently we've seen some titles that have tried to create an esports

scene around them that aren't competitive by nature and they've done quite poorly. So my question is um are there any specific decisions you think you've made to avoid the pitfalls of um trying to create an esport of something that isn't inherently competitive? Yeah. Uh what what really helped us first of all are our partners and sponsors. They really gave us visibility and as I said that buzz around the farming simulator league. And I think we also had that benefit that when we said hey there is a competitive farming simulator. People were like okay I have to watch that. And um yeah people like it people get attached to it. So uh and as I said those those five questions that we go through every season it's super important to do that. We do that even in between seasons just that we know that what we show and how we show it is up to date and yeah and great esport mode.
Thank you.

Hi. Um, I've been in esports for 25 years and I think this is pretty cool, this league. Have you tried selling this league to media companies, somebody like Eurosport for example, or you relying on just Twitch?
Uh, not yet. And for stuff like that, I'm sadly also the wrong person because um I'm I'm lead designer so I don't think that I could say, "Hey, we sell it now to Eurosport there. Uh, we have to talk to our CEO, CSO." Yeah. But that's a good idea.
Could you talk a little bit about the relationship between the sponsors and the esports league and how how this works? I mean, presumably these are sort of agricultural companies, John Deere, you know, what do they kind of get out of this? And I mean given the sort of obviously as an audio designer you'd be

sort of getting make sure the sounds are absolutely accurate because people would be you know
fussy about that but how does it actually work when you know you're dealing with sponsors who want their sort of tractor to say also be the best in the game.
Yeah. I mean uh they know that we cannot overpower like a machine just because they want to. Uh so we have our ideas and they have their ideas. So of course we have to find compromises. Um but yeah I think still it's it's it's a win-win situation because they have visibility at live events. They have visibility on Twitch, YouTube uh and reach an audience which they usually wouldn't reach and um yeah there was a sound question as well that was good. Okay. Any think that's it then? All right. Thank

you a lot and enjoy the development.