Tencent is a Military Company? | Roundtable News | 359

[Music] welcome everybody to the Game Dev Unchained podcast the number one Game Dev my podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof I'm your host Brandon fam and you know who I'm going to introduce because he saw the title and it's that time of the month what's up Ray Graham what's up Ray hey how you doing man what's up Su so uh without further Ado this is a round table news episode where game developers such as us are talking about game developer news in the past month that affects game developers let's get right into [Music] it all right uh first and foremost 10 cent is a military company no did you

hear about this no it is listed by the United States as a military company uh tensid of course says this is a mistake uh we do other things but you know uh there are obviously ramifications oh you know I see what this is yeah so there was a bunch of other Chinese companies uh that got en rolled into this as well MH uh it is concerning because t does have a strong foothold in American game companies particularly uh aggressively in the last 5 to 10 years you know the top two epic games Riot right RI Riot especially they own pretty much Riot right and then epic gains these owners a percentage not not a big stake hold but uh I think it's a pretty big stake but it's pretty big all right yeah I think but uh eventually you know all of it but uh I did see news

that you know there was some kind of conflict of having a 10cent on the board of directors they had to like vote that 10cent represented off because it was not enough so not so much that they can be part of the board but enough to be like I'm coming for you right yeah tensent has like 40% stake right it's pretty big not quite there yet it's almost there and um I guess the question is there's an escalation we a a political show but there's an escalation in terms of con concern right in the last few years Tik Tok particularly like you got to you got to sell it or else we're going to ban it right it's still I think through uh political channel it's been kind of delayed delayed delayed but eventually it's coming to a uh conclusion to the point where well coming has to come to a conclusion because I even saw a headline with that guy from Shark Tank like talking Kevin Kevin Kevin o yeah it's buying Tik to so

like it's interesting to see like all right you know what other Chinese companies like 10 cent kind of hitting the headlines I I don't think it's blatantly a mistake like I I definitely think there's something going on for them to like some it's a huge company to be doing that to that right yeah but it's it's kind of like like just reading one article about it it's kind of like you know 10 cent um is a Chinese company you know and the Chinese government has a lot of control over the companies that operate in China yeah right there's like some very direct linkages there right and so it's like basically the US saying okay you're a Chinese Tech Giant you work over here but you're in China and you have connections to the Chinese government therefore you're a military company and therefore you're on this list right so um so I I think that's kind of that's kind of what is coming out of that you know you know what I mean it's just to it's like

a typical American reaction to to a company having close ties to a government that they're currently at odds with basically are currently kind of like cold with right and so you know like yeah is tenson actually a military company no but but um just like any other Tech Giant working in China do they have like strong connections to the Chinese government a I.E the Chinese military yes you know because this is how chin China operates right yeah so there there's a you know hopefully that subsides and um yeah because it's yeah the big two is epic games and RI but they have you know a a grapple on a lot of other companies and and t t says they're going to they're going to sue if they don't if the US government doesn't fix it so yeah I mean there really is a it's a big problem it's not like suddenly just sell all

their stakes in the company and just leave yeah I mean there's a lot of years built up to where they are right now and as a business it's kind of well it seems unfair right but yeah it's it's kind of funny though it's I see this it's really interesting you see companies like kind of get big in like North America yeah and then they're looking for the next market and a lot of times the next Market is like China India like we got to like break into there and then we unlock a multiple of people that we can reach and I think tens Cent's doing the opposite where they're like they run everything in China right and now they're like okay where where else can we expand into and so they're expanding into gaming uh Western more Western gaming Western gaming companies and other things and then now it's it's a it's a big uproar you know it's definitely um I don't want to say threatening but it's like it is grabbing a lot of

attention with Wukong kind of making like a splash in the Triple H SP this past year tensen AR ready in the background quietly have been like been a big part of western game companies like major part yeah in a lot of ways saved them uh from from really not bankruptcy but like epic wasn't in a good place uh until fortnite and then riot at the same was kind of flaming out a bit with League of Legend I mean this past couple years they've been doing major layoffs uh even with valerent and League of Legends it's like that's only two IPS you got to make more right and so they're they're figuring things out and they need to buy time and like you said like tenset has a not 10cent but Chinese companies in China have a monopoly in their own market like Western companies any other companies uh either get not just games but like uh

any type of Technology gets duplicated over there and then rebranded uh quite successfully right uh they put China first uh is the mentality and a lot of the thinking now is like we're wising up to the long-term reifications of Outsourcing everything all right uh good or bad right but like it does like stiff stifle competition when we are allowing China in this case to have free market in our our country but we can't do vice versa over there all right there's some things right we're making Tesla vehicles over there right as one example uh they're losing Los but they they they too are realizing that uh making it monistic over there right is probably not good and they're starting to let Dro Down the Wall of China a bit for

other businesses to thrive you know because they they you know I know the last couple years their stock market took hit because they were straight up like arresting and uh re-educating like their business CEOs I know like a lot of businesses and a lot of people who are starting businesses are moving their money elsewhere because you know government first over there and it's like anti- capitalistic right uh and if all the people with the ideas were bringing in the money or leaving the country for other options you know that's a problem too and I think they're kind of starting to react to that there still obviously in a great place to do what they need to um the Chinese right I'm just trying to see how this kind of because at this point our game companies are so intertwined with what China wants to do right uh like imagine if China pulls out on these like what how would we collapse you know like

Riot who else would come swooping in buying those Ste maybe somebody but there is a right at this state as the state that we're in where we're still laying off people like can we handle another hit like that you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah I don't know man I like I I don't I don't see you know like I I just think it might be overblown maybe yeah um like I'm not even really thinking about like you know hey yeah you took Chinese money and now oh no you might you might go away um there's some companies that took Saudi Arabia money right you know as well and I would be I would be more concerned about that you know one day just like disappearing right so Saudi disappearing is that a thing I I mean the money the just the funding might disappear through because of TR whatever whatever reason right so

yeah yeah the Ray I I've been introduced recently a lot about this idea of mental wealth you ever heard about that so it's not just about surviving the day but actually setting yourself up for long-term mental resilience so it's not about quick fixes right it comes down to like these five things essentially your sleep your diet exercise Stress Management and something new that I've learned exogenous compound it's a fancy word where you take in your neut Tropics which is mainly uh to help with mental Clarity or brain medicine adaptogens herbs that helps with managing stress and the nutritional supplements that were all aware of like your Omega-3s magnesium that all support brain health really makes me focus and be ready to talk about all the shenanigans that we talk about right and I know sometimes yeah you say you work late in the night now right A lot of these extra projects extra responsibilities you're taking on so for me working in all these areas has been a huge game changer and one thing that

really helped me stay on track is Magic mine it's its mental performance shot that gives me those extra boost during the day before we record these podcast episodes and then at night they got this sleep Elixir that actually helps me wind down which is just as important as staying productive so so magic mine has this awesome new bundle where you can grab both the mental performance shot and the Sleep Elixir together so you can check it out at magic.com gdj again that's magic mind.com gdj and get 45% off so it's a great addition to my routine and I know it's going to be very helpful for yours Ray I know you're going to be first in line to try that rest of you guys listening go check it out all right I'll check that out uh let's talk about another favorite right and we tend to have to once in a while the good old obiso Ubisoft what do they

want to do right uh they're kind of like at uh like you said before they they're seeing the wri in the wall the next Assassin's Creed isn't very promising right now they just delayed it again to March another month um I don't know what that does but there it is uh there isn't uh the the buzz definitely have died down like surprised promotional content hasn't uh isn't ramping up as it used the kind of used to around this time you know three months before your game ships out tripa a game been development for five years right uh especially it's pre-campaign was so hyped right uh to negative reactions but three months before the game that seems to be kind of like your last shot right at least according to the brother it feels like hey man this is our last chance to like improve ourselves a bit uh what should people

out there be thinking seeing how this is rolling out right now no I think last time we talked about I I was saying like you know they're hurting they're having they're having a bad time over there right so you know people leaving people quitting not the right Talent you know um games getting delay right so like you know they're just having a hard time and then there's there's talk of like maybe might sell the 10 cent right like there's you know who knows right so like it's just hard to buy out right now because I think before they were really resistant to that right yeah yeah but like but the business cannot go on the way it's been going on right and so yeah I think they're kind of like on in in the last gasps unless somebody Scoops them up and helps helps them out right so like I think yeah like yeah there's the Assassin's Creed Shadows game but like what what is the other

game is there any other game yeah any other games that they're making that they've actually announced like I don't even know just assassin man they I think they shot all their shots you know and that's kind of I was call bones apparently or or is that already out I don't even know oh ano ano's coming out soon ano ano7 okay I'll play that um but no one else what the hell um yeah yeah but yeah like it's it's kind of it's looking kind of kind of slim for them right now you [Music] know so what I'm afraid of is like it's kind of building up to whatever happens best case scenario I think for them is a buyout or bailout but that often results to uh what do you call it redundancies right so another big layoff on the

horizon shortly after that is announced so yeah maybe may like you know they they've historically have not actually laid off staff although like in this hard time this hard time they have um but yeah it's it's yeah who knows um but yeah I just think they're just yeah it's done it's done for them unless unless there's something big that they can pull out the Hat the industry uh I think as a whole was kind of like ready to get rid of 2024 right and then 202 High 2025 happened and within like 10 days yeah now currently we have the LA fire in blaze a lot of game companies there a lot of our friends have been basically I pretty much I know and everyone in La has been evacuated I know some that whose houses have burned it's gone right as part of the blade and then you know there was a couple of

terrorist attack uh the first day of uh New Year's oh yeah oh yeah Jersey not New Jersey was it New Jersey it was New Jers yeah I think so yeah yeah and then uh I think you're right New Jersey and then the the Vegas uh Tesla truck blow up yeah is all within 10 days and uh it's not looking great man like the the fires itself is has a big effect I mean one of the biggest hubs in California not just California the states is in the LA area a lot of game companies there yeah but I think most of the most of the game companies like in Santa Monica and and and further south even and so a lot of them are like like the companies themselves unaffected but sure there might be people that live further north that were Ed by that um

but yeah but I don't know if it will be like oh it's it's a major thing that will that will have ripples through industry like that I don't think so yeah um I think like if you want to think very Grim you know the the industry still haven't bounced back we know a lot of people laid off right and if people are still somehow managing to live in LA and then having to face this that might be game over a bit for yeah but but also like layoffs are also continuing into like you know it was kind of like survive until 25 was kind of a thing right but it seems like there are still things that are being cut back and and and and uh I think Splash damage very recently announced like cancelling no canceling a project which halted in people losing their jobs right um they still have other projects but like they cancel the Transformers project or whatever so yeah

the counterplay games company closed down remember that godp game which one counterplay games they made godfall and I godall thought awful terrible name I feel worse now but H yes godfall yeah godfall wasn't very good you know um it was like an arena base yeah no yeah I played it for a second yeah I mean it looks it definitely had a style everything shiny yeah yeah yeah everything was shiny that was kind of the that was kind of what was wrong with it a little bit and the game just wasn't very good but sad sad it's sad to hear that though it is sad I mean even though I I wasn't playing it wasn't really looking forward

to it or or anything right made fun of it a bit but at least it was trying something it wasn't shooter you know what I mean it was trying something different like an arena battle MOBA type of game right yeah yeah yeah um and I always will respect that someone I think I'm at an age where anybody who has the capacity and the courage to make something creative and like put the Blood Sweat and and and time in it I was like dude that's awesome you know to kind of go through production uh and and and we uh success or fail that's that's a huge achievement hopefully that team uh boun well I mean company's gone but the people in that team themselves can yeah find something yeah they made they made duess too which is also very good game I like du list that was pretty cool yeah but like the the sad thing is like he said surviv to 2025 was kind of

like the hope and uh like I think there's like a couple Studios already closed since since the new year like announ saved and uh what what is what what what are people supposed to do at this point I don't I have like I'm running out I mean I mean what they're like I think it opens the door like when things happen it always opens the door for New Opportunities right and so it's about like okay what do I do now what new opportunities do I have um there's less probably more people out of work and and probably it's going to be harder to find like a job but I think it opens doors for indie games and like and people to like spit up their own Studios and and try to do things like in a way that is more sustainable than give us a million dollars let us go off into a corner don't bother us for seven years and then will'll produce something that everybody's going to love and play um

you know I think there's other ways of like engaging um in a way that in a cheaper way you know um with the community and figuring out Mak it something that people like and that is in a more sustainable way you know yeah I mean I was mentioning this a few times um I do feel like we're starting to kind of crawl into the quiet period of uh games at least the big budget games right all these layoffs and all these missing people and projects delays have to have an effect right uh there's there's got to be like a gap uh where we're hearing games all the time because there's just not people producing I mean there there's a clearly an absence because the last time we tracked numbers like 20,000 people in the last two years got laid off right um many projects many companies closed down uh many projects we haven't even heard of got cancelled

mid Midway right just because of budget concern not even not even the quality of it right uh all those games all that's happening uh it does feel like a lot of things are are starring to quiet down because like you said these triaa games take seven years to make right uh and uh we're we're not timing it so that every year these games are coming out right sometimes they all come out at once uh just by their startup production time or whatever right and yeah all I know is civ7 is coming out very soon and do we need anything more in life than that is is my question which is that Civilization 7 what do you mean what you talking about and then um and then you know marvel rifles seems to be doing pretty well actually out here these streets um hey remember we talked about this before I was like yes you put Marvel in a thing people are going to

love the right so um yeah well we'll give credit it's actually a well made game sure but that also helps that it's a Marvel IP thing well it helps for sure I would say that uh well the funny thing is this right I I see a lot of these threads happening where they compare uh this Marvel Rivals just character design versus what crysto Dynamics put out which was super forgetful yeah you don't even remember like a year ago they came out with Adventures remember it was kind of like a beat them up oh you know what I mean AV that was that was that was idos idos Montreal idos it was a big production supposedly you know uh I'm pretty sure it was a multi uh franchise uh plan right Bas if it was a success it was not all right uh surprise surprise uh but but like just uh just to compare

the two all right these are both Marvel specifically Adventures if anything the first of that cryst Dynamic game Adventures should have had uh it had a better Runway it had a better red carpet type of launch because it was so close to endgame right it was at the height of uh I would say oh yeah I think I kind of missed I thought I missed that though it was like it was supposed to come out rather but then it was like delayed and miss but even then it was still at like the hey day of like the end game era Spider-Man was still coming out I believe uh uh the third one and it was awesome so it it was still riding the W but didn't land uh because it was just a bad game right just just no soul um it also it also like like everything I've seen about like it didn't really play up the characters that like that well like it was just like it had

the character yeah yeah yeah yeah it wasn't deep didn't have dep um which you kind of expect right you kind of be if we're going through the story mode which I was fine with in terms of narrative speaking like yeah okay I'll go through the story mode with the character I I can do that um I think it going for high-end Graphics hurt it a bit to be honest right uh because I think so much production was given in that fraction of second of action right it can't really have a long really uh designed game uh past that right all the production was just put into eye candy stuff within that like five minute level or whatever right yeah I don't know I I I I love Marvel at the time I just had no interest toing I wonder what I mean is that what you saw when you saw the preview like oh this is not deep at all it's just smashing Hulk smash yeah I

just didn't care at all about that game you know like I was yeah whatever and I'm a big honest honestly I don't even I don't even care about Marvel Rivals I kind of just want to check it out cuz every like it's good I'm playing it right but I'm like I'm like I don't really yeah I'm not I'm not into that either what is that Mode called where you kind of do the delivery thing OverWatch escort payload payload payload escort yeah yeah yeah um I'm not a big fan of that to be honest uh I think that's I think that's good because it's more tactical right cuz you can't just like go running off right you got to like protect the thing that you're escorting and kind of do like it opens up defensive things defensive things yeah Team Fortress you know like man Val doesn't get enough credit like people are still coping its games copying its games to this day and those are the games are still hitting the charts like isn't that crazy to think about like all

these games kind of always homage to to valve games even valerant right is Counter Strike now our rival is like Team Fortress mode uh like portal it works if it works it works man you but it just sucks that all the Innovation all the things that really stick comes from this company that don't want to even make games anymore you know I mean it's like I'm scared this is what I'm seriously scared of where's the Innovation like I really do feel like game designers I know you guys are out there but you guys are not like hitting the mark that our ancestral colleagues have set no you know what it no no I think it's the same it's the same thing yeah well yes um but then also what it really is is like the big companies are not taking risks um that's been like that for a

long time I see way more interesting gameplay Innovations and things with Indie Games yeah all the all the time constantly there's probably five right now that I can pull out and and they're dope like mechanics wise you know um but then the big titles are just kind of like we got to go with what kind of like allows for a very broad audience can't do anything too wacky too crazy um that's why a lot of games are like Shooters of some kind or like or or um you know just I can't even remember the other genre I'm thinking about right but like shooters or first person shooters or third person shooters or like or multiplayer games or you know there's there's these there's this box that everything's in because it just needs to reach a lot of people and there's not much Innovation happening in that space you know what I mean um Triple A and the big companies are all about throwing as

much money at the screen as possible Right like w are you with like how much money we're spending on this thing um and not necessarily oh this is like some dope mechanics going on here right um there like there are some that have some good mechanics and are fun to play and all that and there's some Innovation that's happening uh but it's not like it's not the norm you know what I mean yeah so yeah uh what I'm worried about is that um you know a lot of what's happening is part of it maybe a lot of it is contributed to that right a lot of the the the perception of Triple A games have really gone stale right that's why when something like Wukong and Rivals come out it's like man this is really po like that's the selling point it's like they actually finished this game on lunch yeah but also like but wukong's not very Innovative it's not but I I appreciate

the fact it's good it's solid gameplay and I I played like I think at this point I need to get back to it like 25 hours no bugs like I didn't see anything it's very stable super stable right and I'm just like so poisoned with what I am anticipating from Triple A games that like oh you know I'm just going to fall through the world or uh I I got to like brace myself for like a 100 Gig uh download patch launch patch right but but remember like that's also like a lot of these games again the ones where you I fall through world I do all this these games are so huge and I could go here I could go there I could go everywhere right Wukong gives the impression that it's a huge game yeah um and it does it excellently because you're like wow I could go anywhere you're not going anywhere you're walking on a straight path that's

you're walking in this straight area here yeah three paths at most it's it's really really smart of of how they built it because especially like smaller team smaller time like like really efficient and have that impression of a bigger world yeah and then everybody place it like wow this world's so amazing right well that's what I'm saying it goes back to what I'm feeling is like these game designers are clearly better right to me a game designer is best when they're limited or or or or like they they design within a box right the design with with the limitations right now and this is same with artists and the same argument right with the new Nvidia cars with with like infinite like non-care about like hard drive space like you see this all the time people was like back in the day when this was squeezed into a disc versus now where it's like 200 kids

and it's still right I feel like designing with full abandonment is really hurting schedules production focus and uh just good old like uh dude I know how yeah I don't know how you deal with this all the time like tell the good people what your philosophy with this like you're seeing the industry there it's still going that way it's not stopping no one that put I mean plenty of people put like brace yourself red flags right but it's going this direction what what what are you seeing that we're losing by continuing this path of nonoptimal yeah I just think it's it's like the it's the never- ending arms race right like the customer expectations are high they want something of a certain level um if you don't come to that level even if you're cheaper um you're trash right and so and so

people are like out here in a big ass arms race really and uh you can't afford it's not sustainable you can't afford to be in arms race like at at that level you know and that's what happens right like you just have these big games getting made I I also think um there's a lot of people that are making games that don't necessarily have all of the the background technical knowledge in order to make sure that these things are like stable polished uh run well nor do they have the time to figure out some of that stuff right so so like as these games grow in scope and scale and like in the level of detail that they have to approach to you're getting more and more of see more and more of these issues right this just unsustainable and then there's some teams that are executing at a high level and and they're the ones like at the Forefront and just delivering on point every single time um and then there's

other teams that just cannot catch up but that is the market that they're playing in right they have to deliver if you're shipping your game for $70 there's a certain expectation of what is in that game you know what I mean yeah um and not everyone can reach that expectation like it's just not just not feasible well speaking on like unsustainable uh yeah rates right so I was looking at this D data the compound annual growth every year we we kind of brag about like how awesome and more money we're making right but like you know from 2016 to 2021 yeah the pandemic obviously had an impact you know there was a 133% like average of growth right now we're kind of returning well we've been back now and the foreseeable future to single digit growth so we are kind of shrinking uh in terms of well they say it's

attributed to a lot of things you know underperformance of a lot of high-profile games uh Rising interest rates uh players returning to pre-pandemic uh habits right so all these are contributing factors to why like our growth rate is slowing down um and I see it too we were just talking about like all these layoffs all these pauses all these cancellation all these student closure there is going to be a gap and uh thankfully like you said there's a very active Indie community and I think we're going to be relying on that for a few years just smaller teams making interesting products again uh and then once in a while and and that on remix to be honest a lot of remakes going I know industry the industry has been fueled by remakes for years yes but like more than more than ever now than uh I remember that are doing really well

like Capcom was braggadocious about how their Resident Evil remakes are like making so much money making a lot of money yeah yeah yeah they're killing it right and then uh even with me I I think yeah it's like sinful for me to say I'm looking forward to the Snake Eater game man I'm like I want to replay that game in high death right the're reasing the audio the dialogue right uh they're just the graphics and fixing a few things that people wanted over the year I'm ready to go on a sniping round man with sniper W so I'm looking forward to that and a lot of that too is uh underneath that un underlying factors like people are wanting or are are nostalgic about just High budget Dependable good games like game design were solid in in those in these remakes right because it's proven These Guys these became cult uh not cult they became classic instant

Classics because the game design was so tight back then and now you have the technical abilities the tools to upgrade the graphics in a reasonable time but even then these games take three to five years that's another thing we got to think about man if you take the same game design same audio and everything it still takes three to five years to make the game well that's why again that's why there are numerous companies yeah trying to do AI to game there's that's why all the big companies are super interested in AI right because they because they know like the game team the majority of the game team is the content creators it's the artists it's the designers right because there's an army of content that has to get made and so like you know everyone's like oh can I if I can shrink that like oh my God right and it but also it could be a bad thing in one way where it's now oh it's

cheaper to make content so I'm just gonna make more of it right and then you just end up with even bigger more bloated games right yeah um but that's why everybody's hyped about AI right because because the 3 to five year thing just cannot continue yeah right and so yeah yeah I how do we make games faster have a good process I think the movie indry kind of Hit the same thing where uh you know people are consuming content and there's so much content like just old content to dig through right I think we talked about this a few round tabls ago where I'm like I'm kind of satisfied the next two years I just go through my steam liary like I don't have to go for the next thing and I think a lot of people are feeling that right now a lot of Gamers that I talk to they're like all right let's let's slow things down right let me catch up a bit is is a way right and um I think that's being felt

all over and I the people with the data the people who are doing these layoffs people who are kind of like using this time to kind of refocus you know what uh their company going forward looks like recognizes that too right I mean they're seeing these remakes low risk essentially um guarantees and everyone's kind of taking a pause right uh and so like I don't think they'll be any day soon where we're going to suddenly see the market floated with 10,000 jobs looking all right or 20,000 it's going to be a long process I think even less than a quarter of that will actually start one day come back and be like hey we're hiring again yeah I don't know like maybe it might another boom might happen or like it might get to the point of where you're saying where people look around I go oh we need to build up a pipeline of games

again and then there's a there's a hiring Rush again right like I think everything is cyclical right so it's just a matter of like how long how long is the cycle we have rumors of new consoles on the horizon uh you know and that always brings more games you know yeah um so yeah we just have to wait and see how how it all panss out I think the days are so Sony and Microsoft or even the switch being the reason or that boom Oh kind of no no no no no no no no yeah consoles are dead no consoles are done consoles are done there's what's a console like I I I would actually be I think maybe there's another console generation to happen um and I think that'll be it like I just don't see the reason and and definitely Microsoft doesn't see a reason for one um but um right but um but I don't see a reason for one like why would I like they just

you know release PS5 Pro um like why would I buy a PlayStation 6 anytime soon right like there's just no reason to um the gap between PS5 and PS4 is like like what you mean like I could barely tell the difference you know yeah so um and I have a PC and I you know right so and then like the handheld stuff like steam deck and the and the rag Aly Ally and the and switch to rumors switch to um all these things people are kind of changing how they play a little bit with these things um so yeah like I I don't know I think I think U and then with Netflix getting into gaming too with their whole plan um yeah I don't see another console cycle or if I do see one that would definitely be the last one yeah like speaking of Netflix and even

at ease [Music] um they're kind of stepping back a bit in their plans well no they're not Ste back they failed loose yeah like even then which was exciting their their understanding finally that games take a while and uh although Marvel Rivals is a Edy's game by the way but yeah it is yeah now they're they're doing fine again right and everyone's going to do like a Call of Duty thing you're a Call of Duty studio now you're you're a Marvel rival studio now what's up stop what you're doing make some lowkey skins um definitely gonna happen for sure for a few of them um but I I'm saying I've been talking to people had my good friend Jordan he's kind of like a souser on the pot he's been able to kind of like uh hypothesize you know what the next

boom is for the industry which is what we really need a boom to get the jobs back uh on the market right and uh like you said the status quo of Triple A or next console is kind of long gone it needs to be something Innovative something exciting for investors to come in and be like yes you know we want to be part of this next wave right here uh which is like the only uh I would say a uh hope left right right now in the phase that we're going it kind of needs that kind of outside the box Boo the same way that the iPhone like really gave life back in the history with with uh it's iOS mobile games right where in 2008 we were in a bad spot as well and it kind of prolonged you know uh reinvigorated that fortnite I would say even though you know I have special you know special feelings with epic fortnite kind of did that too you know um well if you really

want to give Credence give it to pubg uh that's about to say I'm like what are you talking about but fortnite really elevated I mean fortnite was at the freaking Super Bowl right they made uh yeah but the concert they took it to another status yeah it's not the game it's not not about the game it's just about they made a whole like Ze zeist around it right and they're writing that to this day right they're they're writing that with you know whatever they're doing with Disney right now uh I'm curious to see how what kind of boost right I don't think it's like G to be revolutionary I think it's like literally what we're thinking it's like fortnite with Disney yeah I'll go on the I'll go on the record and say that maybe a few of these episodes ago you know with me the ones that I've been on a few of them ago you were like bad mouthing EP you were like talking I I still feel that way and and and and the fundamentals have not changed since then

but you talking way different now is I'm just going to point that out hey man I'm I'm saying I still feel like epic uh is still like the big bad wolf the industry hiding hiding in sheep's clothing in a way right they kind of uh in their own way kind of kind of uh spread uh what do you say not uh the the they're out there gospel about how great they are and how they want to demonitize uh the industry but at the same time they're like stepping on the little guys and like stealing ideas left and right and like buying out their competition right it's like it's just a I just hate that hypocrisy I feel like everyone sees it uh but I'm I'm the only one saying it so I will say this right going back to my friend and I do feel this way like

these Ray bands right these AR glasses CS just happened they're getting smaller man they're getting sexy right and there's a whole world out there that don't know the thrill of VR Gaming right they just don't know and it still impresses me to this day when I just put on Half Alex like dude this is awesome it's that it's still a feeling that uh I I never I haven't had since I bought my first computer with Counter Strike right it's like yeah it's still they're waiting for millions of people out there I know meta is doing a great job selling their goggles but it's still very Niche compared to the rest of the industry right it's not it's not hitting like uh uh we2 numbers or uh or whatever right um so the switch to switch switch numbers so uh with these glasses becoming more accessible right I like I I know regular people wearing those raid bands just having smart information now pop up uh

and I'm seeing these live translation subtitles happening finally right these glass like this is cool like I'm actually like one update away I was like maybe I should grab one of these as soon as it shows something but I think that is potentially and I agree with Jordan uh the next big boom of the industry that will create an influx of job Creations um potentially potentially I think I think Netflix out of these cloud gaming out cons I don't see anything exciting as exciting as that you know everybody's been I you know ever since the first the first AR thing came out it's like yeah you gota do is make this smaller yo yeah make this more You' beenu this and then that's that's something and you know and I think you know and then meta showed their their crazy Aran prototype thing yeah um but but that's like you know I think we're 10 years away 10 years from this point yeah yeah still maybe five

maybe five we lucky right but I think more like 10 um sooner than that man we got friends wait they need jobs they can't wait 10 years yeah so that's that's what I'm saying it's like you're like oh I might be in the next boom right like I I don't know about all that but I but I still think um it'll be really cool when it happens but it's still a long a long way off I think yeah yeah man I just see um I think it's gonna creep up us on us um in uh in everyday use cases right I think uh your uh windshield of your car will start to have Smart information things like that you know the everyday you know your fridge or you like everyday consumer stuff will start kind of implementing some of this stuff and then it be once it becomes more like Minority Report then the gaming function as it finally catched up to handle real time interaction uh to what we're kind of seeing now uh with the device being small it's it's going to hit us pretty

hard like to me that's the most exciting thing about the future of games yes great games are coming out we're talking about these remakes you're talking about Civ you know games that we love but that's you know that's our group right we need like kind of new blood new interests for the industry to grow and uh out of everything you know yeah Netflix is cool what they're trying to do with stream but it's cloud gaming right and a nutshell is like we have like Xbox Microsoft has like great games streaming right now right on the ninja Guiden game right oh not you're like you're like the one Microsoft the one Microsoft studi is doing great uh but you know that you know if you really have like this uh high hopes for Netflix that I mean how how how much better can you get with than that right um you know I don't that's exciting enough to be honest to to be a boom so

uh even if they realize their goal uh there just needs to be more Innovation and um V AR to me is largely untapped like that shit's still cool to me man the idea that you can play a board game in the living room with ar glasses with your friends the way you know you can interact with virtual full virtual environment is still super exciting I hope uh like the way I'm just glad it's still relevant enough to stay alive and not completely die like I don't know up in the bay they have this but we have VR arcades now pretty accessible in like large shopping areas uh that I see always full man all the kids are always throwing parties in there um you know they have these VR uh simulation racing cars right that's just hard just a hard rig to have at home right that alone is awesome and they have like single like decks where you can put on VR and move around in those

areas and although although I wouldn't want to put on no VR headset I don't know how they keep that clean like that's my only concern for sure but if they are able to make these smaller publicly make it more accessible people will start thinking about getting on their own and yeah but like I I still haven't tried those local um location based experience is I think that's freaking awesome like I yeah I'll bite the bullet and put the goggles on just to walk around with my friends and like go airsofting basically right in the alien world that's still cool to me that's that's exciting to me and the only thing that's stopping me from fully going to that field and make just VR all the time is that yeah there's not a market for it right now it's it's a huge risk there's only a few Studios that are doing it and they are all owned by maida you know what I mean it's like ah you need more people than that it's a

problem um but you know I I will say however you feel about Facebook meta kept that alive you know just long enough for the technology to build around it which I think eventually will it's closing the Gap uh I also I will also point out that you you've on this on this podcast you've talked mad noise about meta as well like just just derogatory just just just taking a dump on everybody hey man and and now you're like oh the tech is pretty cool like bro bro first of all all right there's a lot of missteps along the way right of course of course of of course it like missteps plan or not they were terrible there were a lot of things that could do better right yeah what I'm saying is now like like we kind of need someone to throw us a freaking raft in terms of the game

industry like it was branded by so so the place that you were like taking a dump on yeah was is is the Bastion of Hope now oh okay I got it I I am incredibly impressed that um they could be the next kind of iPhone moment for for game like iOS maybe we'll we'll see who gets there first you know but but at this point with with with VR I mean valves sort of but they're still small right they can't have that much of an impact well well Google thing got announced finally which all the Google AR stuff Android yeah Android AR stuff or whatever I don't know what they're calling it you bit I don't know I don't know much about it either the rore is that an AR core it no AR core no

that's just what they do but they just announce like a new Android XR that's what it is um yeah Android XR and and it's basically like a new um new XR toolkit it's going to come with a headset too they they're going to have a headset but it you know it's going to be a crossplatform right for for Android devices right of all all kinds right so um it supposed to be kind of like an OS that can run on many different XR devices and of course they're going to ship like one alongside it yeah that is Android XR that's what it is yeah for whatever reason night what's up with this Vision vision is that dead in the waters now like what Vision OS yeah with the no I I think yeah I think they're they're gonna just try to make cheaper ones that are not as crazy cuz like the technology just not there yet to the point where people are going to

buy it at a decent price and so it's just going to they're just going to make a cheaper version that's not as good right UMass yeah yeah people just like glasses man I'm cool with glasses yeah but but you imagine like Android XR mixed with voice and Ai and all the things pixel so naturally I'm going to lean towards whatever this is yeah yeah so like yeah like and some of the proof of Concepts that they've shown look pretty cool like overlays you're walking down the street giving you directions you know that's the kind of stuff that we've always said oh that would be awesome you know and then now yeah like if they had that in in a glass in glasses that'd be pretty cool so yeah what I'm confused about is that um didn't they ax their whole AR team at one point so they rehired everybody yes

yes they did um and so like so that's the only thing that should give you pause but um yeah we're talking about but they just get fooled again yeah they just announced like not just but they announced this like in December actually yeah so just two more months the next quarter next quarter it's gonna be a bust hey man it's not making us Millions yet yeah you know running on Qualcomm Hardware you know like so yeah they could do some crazy stuff with it have you tried those Ray bands oh yeah yeah Stephan has what's your what's your is it like super basic is yeah it's it's it's it's like you know you take pictures to do video um and then and then there's like um connects to your phone there's app app so you can like talk to you can read messages to you you can like make phone calls like it's it's like your typical

like earbuds but with like a little bit more things going on yeah yeah so is sound quality good or yeah sound quality is decent and it was it was really interesting cuz like it's like directional so like it goes like nobody else nobody else really can hear it they can kind of hear but not really um and then like um there's no like there's no like AR like at least the ones that that I've used didn't have any ar ar craziness within no um but you could do a lot of stuff with the with the phone it's a step in the right direction I think yeah yeah definitely because they look it's already appealing to regular decent yeah yeah yeah if they can build from that which it will uh it's gaining the Right audience the right support yeah and then to the point where we can play games off it uh so so what in terms of Technology what what do you think like retro gains let's say off

those Ray ANS how far are we from doing that from where it is right now me I mean I've seen some like small demos and stuff like I think I think like a simple game you probably can do on these things right shooting it's from itself right it's not borrowing from anything else yeah I think so yeah um but then but what you really need though is like something that makes it worth it to be in AR you know you need like the app to actually make it cool that it's AR right if it's just like Pac-Man on my AR head headset like who cares yeah Pac-Man eating people in the subway I'll buy that see look at that I'm a old school game designer man boy just munching people on the subway hell yeah all right trademark that MH next game well uh Ray you know we're at the crack of the hour we talked

about many things uh hopefully hopeful things I think we kind of closed it with some hope right uh kind of start over with kind of grim because that's the way the year is uh for all those brothers and sisters out there looking for job the year just started the year has started uh can't be worse than last year let's say that right it has to be better than last year what you think they pausing for I mean I mean I mean personally it's going to be better than last Airfield guys but for those who were worried Ray's okay again this guy had two jobs last year working double time I I'll have one this year this year oh look at that how humble with humility this year 2025 Ray humility but uh yeah I'm looking forward to this year I think there's a lot of um like just judging from what CES was I

know every year it makes sort of a splash but I feel like there's a lot more excitement coming out of Cs this year there's a lot of cool Tech um new video cards coming out right I know Ray has three of those back ordered Ray for each of his computer UPS no I have none of those video cards back order I I ain't independently wealthy to afford graphics cards so uh I think there's a lot of things coming in the Horizon yeah yes we're we're at we're in a bad place in the gaming street but like like so many people uh in your circle and my circle games ain't going nowhere there there's always a place for games there is always a need for games I think we're in a Innovation period And honestly long overdue like we can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results yeah yeah so that's the definition of insanity yeah exactly

so like people people are are kind of hungry you know the the the market is speaking to us I say we want something else we want some accountability on these Triple A games you po polish that let's put some limits on these uh these counts bro uh and uh you know it's time to like maybe introduce a new type of way to interact with games I mean that's what it's all about we've been riding this way for a while uh I think people are kind of looking forward to like how do I interact with this world that I'm living in I really hope that VR I I really if I have to spit like if I want to think of it away I would love to spend the rest of my career in VR land man I I'd love that uh industry I I have fun with it I just need to be able to make money from it to make sense and I think that's everybody to be honest so uh good luck reach out uh

where they can find you where can they find you uh nowaday I'm I'm still on Twitter um w a d a r a SS on Twitter best place on Earth all right go find Ray share your opinions tell them what's up uh see you guys all next week [Music] [Music] want sharper focus by day and deeper sleep at night so now is the perfect time to optimize your mental performance with magic mine exclusive 24-hour pack for the first time ever the focus and sleep shots are bundled together at 45% off but only through my special link so stay sharp stay calm and wake up refresh whether you're tackling big goals or

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