GDC 2026: AI, UGC, and the New Reality of Game Funding

Welcome to the Naavik Gaming Podcast, where it is our mission to explore the business and future of video games. We bring together the industry's brightest builders, investors, and thinkers to keep a pulse on current events, dissect emerging trends in games, share lessons learned, and have a great time. This podcast is also part of Naavik's growing ecosystem, which ranges from free and premium research to consulting and advisory services. For more information, visit www.naavik.co. This episode is brought to you by Overwolf. With over 1,500 games supported, 178,000 creators, and 113 million monthly active users, Overwolf is the guild for in-game creators. Whether you're a gamer, creator, or game studio, Overwolf is the ultimate destination for integrating UGC

into games. For game studios, Overwolf offers CurseForge for studios, a white-label solution that lets game makers and publishers easily integrate mods safely and seamlessly into their games, both existing and new, at zero cost. It's battle-tested by AAA studios and games, including Krafton with Inzone, Studio Wildcard with ARK, Take-Two Interactive, and others. Alongside this, Overwolf is the all-in-one platform that enables creators to build, distribute, and monetize in-game apps, mods, and game servers. In 2024, Overwolf paid over $240 million to in-game creators, proving that they truly value the talents and contributions of the gaming community. You can check out all Overwolf has to offer at overwolf.com or simply check out the link in the show notes. Now, let's jump into the episode.
Hi, I'm Kayleigh Moore, and welcome to the Naavik Gaming Podcast. We are here live from San Francisco at GDC, which is

happening this week. I think this episode is going to drop on Monday. So, I am here with Tiago, who spent 16 years at the intersection of gaming and media and tech pioneering UGC strategy at Warner Music Group and backing companies like Overwolf and Dapper Labs. I think you've said you've been to GDC the past 4 years. Is that correct?
Not necessarily the four exact consecutive years, but four GDCs, yes.
Got it. So, we are going to jump into the trends that we're seeing here at GDC, what's changed year over year. But first, Tiago, you are here and starting a new venture. So, maybe you can start by telling us a little bit about that.
Sure. Should I give an introduction to myself as well?
Please.
Sure. So, I'm Tiago Correa and um I have been in many years in the intersection of media, entertainment, and technology. I am a uh advisory board member for Acclaim, the legendary '90s publisher that uh was brought back last year by a group of industry veterans to much fanfare and jubilation, I add.

Um I am an advisor of FOV Ventures, which is a frontier tech um VC fund based in the UK and Finland. And then, I'm also a venture partner at Griffin Gaming Partners, which is the world's largest VC specialized in gaming. I am now starting a new company, which is called Safe Point, and it is very much in the intersection of music and gaming, which is the let's call it the space, the little niche space that I've been operating out of in the last few years since my stint at Warner Music and and since. And it is the first-ever copyright acquisition vehicle for video game soundtracks.
I love that. Can you give us a little maybe a bit of an example of total addressable market size? Like, how big is the video game soundtrack market?
So, this is obviously a subject for debate and there is only one public-sized research about this out there that says

that the video game sound and music space is 1.6 billion dollars. I would say that for the market that we're looking at, the Sam, I would say was probably going to be 250 million dollars annual revenue. Because people are consuming these. I think it's a it's a very common assumption to just say that music is an afterthought and certainly that's how the gaming industry has seen it as such. Sometimes just as a cost, sometimes it's just something that they needed to get out because hey, we need music or sound or audio into this game. Some obviously have taken a little bit more care and love in finding good composers or good recording artists, but even after that the production side, there's very little that's done post. And so I actually think that there's so much opportunity if you give

these soundtracks the the love and care that they deserve to bring it to even more audiences than already consume them right now.
Well, it sounds very exciting. Thank you for sharing your new venture and I'd love to have you on a full episode where we could really dive deeper. But the reason we're here today is for our our GDC and actually your GDC hot takes. I hear you have I hear you have some spicy comments. So, as you mentioned, you've attended GDC for four years. I think I've attended for five years, but also not in a row. This is my first year back in the last three years. Yeah, so it's it's been a while. And I want to start at a macro level. Like what are you what are you seeing trend-wise that's changed year-over-year and also what's the overall sentiment like that you're seeing?
Mhm. I think every GDC that I've been to, the question of sentiment has been a prevalent one. Um it's it's funny because I've seen

a few changes over the years. I remember I don't know if it was the first one that I attended. It may have been the first one that I attended where companies were very decidedly clear with me straight off the bat by saying, "Just letting you know, I am not a web3 blockchain company." Because the assumption was that everyone was either a company in that space or wanting to meet companies in that space. And that was a I mean, obviously I don't again, don't know if it was my first GDC, but it certainly was something that I noticed not very common in other conferences that I attend to that people have to very much specify, "Just letting you know, if this is a waste of time, like I'm not a blockchain company." Um and naturally the conversation in recent years has turned to artificial intelligence and machine learning. I mean, I think everyone is talking about it. It's funny because

um perhaps the first mini hot take. Um in some ways the topic of conversation today in GDC is still uh AI.
Yeah.
But if I look at other investment conferences or events that I've been to, some of that is already shifting to other areas, namely for example, defense. Um and there have been some examples of multiple overlaps between gaming and defense, right? Whether that's because of mil-sims or military simulations back in the day to the the the normal uh example of simulators and simulations and simulator infrastructure since but also the fact that from a hardware component controllers are basically shared across the different fields, right? If you look

at a drone controller is very much based on gaming controllers and so much so the interfaces UI's etc from the fans is drawn quite a lot from gaming as a trendsetter of a technology industry that it's always been. So, I've not heard much of defense or defense related investments here at GDC.
I was just going to ask you. So, the only we were talking investments earlier before the podcast started and the only good investment I have made in the last 2 years is Rheinmetall. I live in Germany. So, my my defense stock is performing all of my cryptos turned to And I totally agree with you in Europe specifically not necessarily in the gaming. There's a lot of talk of defense technology right now and I think you make a great point of the intersection with gaming. I have not seen or heard any of that here except one VC was saying they might work that into their thesis but it was very early days. Have you seen any companies at that intersection at GDC?
Not at this GDC. Last year I met one

but just generally I think that the VC's you know, we're seeing some VC's or some funds sort of have that exposure to both or transition from gaming into defense and so I was just surprised that the least the conversation that I've been a part of at GDC hasn't caught up yet with that even though the investors and the VC's have. Everyone still is here talking about AI which again there's nothing wrong with that of course there's still massive opportunities and massive interest in that space as well.
To me, it still feels like it's almost early days of AI though within gaming. At GDC, it's funny cuz you know, GDC is in San Francisco, which is obviously the heart of the AI industry. So, when I've been here, I've had GDC-related meetings, but I've also met with different, you know, AI AI companies that happen to be based here, which in a lot of ways seems further along than the

conversations I'm having within the gaming AI space. And I don't know if that's I mean, it could just be who I'm talking to, but also the consumers for the most part still hate AI. So, the gaming companies that I've talked to here are adopting AI very quickly, doing some incredible things with it, but they haven't been as vocal about how they're doing it because it's very off-putting to their users. Have you seen the same thing?
Absolutely. I don't maybe it's not also the users, but a collection of vocal minority of users that maybe hyper-connected to the industry itself as well.
Yeah.
Um cuz, you know, for for good or bad, better or worse, I think there's a high degree of concentration in the gaming industry of professionals who game
Mhm.
and gamers who are in some way, shape, or form or have been professionals. So,

it's quite symbiotic um relationship overlapping Venn diagram between the consumption world and the the production world, more so that's it, for example, other creative industries, like, for example, film or music. Um And so, that's why I'd say there's a little bit more caution when you mention that they're using AI, but they're certainly not talking about using AI.
I personally, coming from the comms like background, right? I think it's a really big missed opportunity, not just in gaming, but with AI industry overall. There's a lot of There's a lot of fear. Uh I think it was NBC just released a study that only that 26% of Americans view anything to do with AI favorable in any way. Like people are terrified. Um I think there's a right to be. Like when things change so quickly, it is scary. But the stuff that I'm personally excited about when I see the AI in games

is the creation that it enables. Like on different UGC platforms, maybe you weren't a developer before, but you can have these AI tools that can build out these worlds. So I'm encouraging some of the companies or studios that I meet with to I think there is a way that you can tell your AI story where it really adds value to both the people who are playing the games and then, you know, the mod authors or the people who are creating experiences on top of games that have access to tools that they've never had before.
I think the story that you've talked about and touched upon is the right one, namely the fact that solo developers always existed in this industry and they've made some fantastic games and creations, but the journey, the pipeline, the time and effort that solo developer would have had to put a few years ago is very different than the one that it has done today. And I don't think that you will see anyone

you know, pooh-poohing against a solo developer just because they used AI to somehow shorten that journey and to make the effort a little bit more bearable if they always knew that they were going to be a solo developer, right? I think the the concern that a lot of people voice around is when companies that aren't solo developers, but rather have employed historically resources, use AI to effectively displace jobs and shorten that amount of resource needed. So, I I I agree that there are different sides of the same story, and one is very positive and I think is still not yet being talked too much about despite that pipeline already existing and and starting to materialize a little bit more, and the large percentage of the talk

around it still is concentrated around the job displacement. I also think that um this is not necessarily just relating to gaming. I spoke about this in a different event around the creative industries. My view on what is happening with AI around job displacement is that um there is a lot of focus on job displacement, and there should be because it is obviously a structural concern around how economies of countries and societies are are are working. But, my main concern is not about job displacement because every every technology will include job displacement in some shape or form. It is the mindset shift that um the communities and societies that are impacted by this, probably everyone, so to speak, would need to have, will need to have, when this um starts really kicking in if, of

course, it already has kicked in.
has.
Um and I think the preeminent thought is still, okay, I have lost my job or um you know, I no longer have this contract or freelance, etc. Let me find another one.
Mhm.
And that's fair, and that's fine, but I think they're just maybe won't be that many contracts and jobs as there were and certainly in the terms that were before. And so the mindset shift that I think needs to happen and maybe it is not happening is how can I use these tools to create a company that or you know, a venture or some sort of product or service that allows me to get revenue, right? Again, for the better or for worse, these companies allow sorry, these these

technologies allowed for smaller teams to exist, but also entrepreneurial endeavors to be much easier to start up. Much easier to go out to market with and potentially start generating some sort of income and revenue. And I think that's the mindset shift that I'm fearful of. I'm not commenting on gaming specifically, just broadly speaking.
No, I hear you. One of the things so I went to the expo for the first time this year. Usually as I think you do too. Well, we'll get into that though. But usually I'm I'm here for the meetings around GDC. I've never had an expo pass before. And so it was really interesting. I I only attended two sessions. I attended one on the state of games journalism. As a PR person, I've seen so many games websites shut down and we've also seen a lot of really interesting substacks spring up of people who've been laid off from different from different outlets. So I saw that.

And I was surprised by how many young people were in the audience and a lot of them asked questions and the questions that came up is I'm a young journalist, how am I going to get started in this industry? And I think you know, we talk about job displacement and it is the entry-level jobs, but I think, once again, not just in the games industry, agreeing with you, it has to be a total shift to entrepreneurship. But, to me, I think it'd actually be really exciting to be getting started in your career because you can really make whatever you want, which, when I was getting started in my career, wasn't wasn't possible at all. And I know that's really scary, but if you have the creativity, or if in gaming, if you're part of like such a specific culture, and you know what kind of mod you want to build, and you're in touch with a specific game and a specific culture, I think ultimately there's going to be a lot more success for a lot of people, but it will look very different than it did when I think you and I were both starting out in our

careers. I don't want to date you. I don't know your age, but Um I would be willing to bet it looked different when you were starting out, too.
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, uh I'd like to consider myself an entrepreneurial person, and I did start projects um over the years. Some commercial, some just creative, some just, you know, social, but um if I had access to these tools, if I had access to these um technologies, I would have done the same things, but in a much easier state. And I'm I'm I'm always curious to think about what would I have been able to achieve because I would have had to spend less effort doing the things that I um did. But, that's just me because I am, at least, I'd like to think of myself as someone that is entrepreneurial and and and likes the startup stuff. And um and I hope that that sentiment is going to become more widespread um

with these technologies.
Have you seen any AI companies at GDC that have been really interesting?
There's one. Um I met them from before, uh but they just moved here to San Francisco called Omea, o m e a. You know, I don't think that they are a gaming company, so to speak. They are a foundational model company. And they are choosing to do a different type of financial front foundational model, which isn't based on LLM structure, and therefore their first application for it because of the nature, and I won't get into the details, but because of the nature of how the foundational model is structured is best applied, or at least in this case it's a good first application for storytelling. The output around storytelling is not as

um as underwhelming as we have seen LLMs be, and it is indeed slightly more out-of-the-box thinking, and not just text prediction over the previous typed text, etc. And so, because of that they've started with a an application test application, which is a interactive audio-based storytelling game that showcases that foundational model.
Oh, that's really interesting. I met, and I don't know the name of the company, but the founder's name was Wilson, and I will link it in the show notes. And Wilson has the most interesting story of anyone I've met at GDC. He previously started a very successful, get ready for this, carnival. And he ran it for years, like throughout throughout the the US, and then of course when the pandemic happened, apparently carnivals were shut down as well. And now he's apparently

I rode out the pandemic in in Europe, where we had a lot of restrictions. But he has built agents that go inside Roblox and give really specific information about the user. And I think there's a ton of implications for that, particularly on the brand side of things. So, I know it's early stage for him. I got a very quick demo, but that was a application that I hadn't seen before that I think, yeah, could be very interesting.
I I've also not seen that yet, and I've spent a significant amount of time on the Roblox ecosystem. So, I'd love to meet them.
And I mean, I think you and we were we met, I think, at the SEG 3 conference. So, I know you do a lot with brands in gaming, too. And I feel like one of the things that continuously comes up of why our brands aren't in gaming more is the measurement is still a little bit behind, right?
Um, yeah. I mean, I think that's always been a problem with a significant number of um some of the digital marketing non-performance-based approaches. And

certainly on the video side, there's been attempts to try and quantify, attribute. But, in Roblox or UGC gaming or just a gaming, there have been some very interesting companies over the years that have brought the technologies from um ad attribution and other um parts of the of the world to gaming. And I think in Roblox, I've seen quite a few of them. Even before Roblox launched their own ad infrastructure, there was a company that was um an ad network-style company that even allowed to understand and quantify how what percentage of a ad or a sponsored placement was in the field of view of the player for the duration of the session time, right? And that's the kind of detailed information that I think brands or other advertisers would

naturally like to have when being present in these types of um places.
Let's shift gears a little bit cuz we're now we're talking UGC platforms and I think there has been a lot of doom and gloom at GDC from what I've seen, but one standout positive has been UG people building within the UGC space. I know Roblox is here, UFN is here, Overwolf is here and they're doing quite well, and there are a lot of studios, Wonder Works for instance, we ran into yesterday, um who have really exciting, bright numbers. Are you seeing a lot of still excitement and hype around UGC?
Yes, I think so. I mean I'm biased because I'm very much in the world of UGC and and love it, but um I think it's interesting to see that whereas a few years ago UGC was seen as not even the stepchild, but rather just let the kids do their thing and you know, they're there and we're here,

we're the adults in the room kind of thing. Um I think it was last year that Roblox did a grouping, a gathering of the partner program partners at their headquarters in San Mateo, and because of that willingly or unwillingly, they brought a lot of the developers of the Roblox ecosystem, at least obviously the partner program ones to GDC, and I think some of them had not come to GDC first. Uh it was their first time, so to speak, and again, I I'm I'm not saying that that is the defining moment that changed it, but I believe because of that um and I was talking to Steven from Max Power Gaming as well uh recently about this, just yesterday, that I think a lot of them started saying, "Oh, I want to go to GDC. So this year, I've certainly seen more UGC creators,

certainly more UGC side events than than previous years. And that is a trend that I will say will continue happening because you know these folks are studios that are or are or publishers that are growing up and and building and and naturally they they want to be where the gaming industry aggregates. Um, I don't know if there's going to be a UGC oriented style conference the size of GDC ever. Maybe not the size of GDC, but did you see the world builder summit that's happening for the first time in in April in LA. It's really focused on the creators that are building within UGC. See, so I mean Overwolf has someone going, Roblox has someone going, UFN, but it's a lot of the creators and not just the huge studios which they have all the like the Grow Your Garden studio. But also individual creators who are

building experiences played by millions of players. So I think it's exciting and I'm I've been kind of waiting for an event like this to happen for for years.
Me too. I didn't know that that was a thing. So
Oh yeah, yeah. I'll connect I mean it might be worth you attending too. They seem to have a lot of really really interesting people even for their first year, but I think we'll see a lot more of that in the future.
I'm looking forward to that because there is you know just by the name that we call them creators, right? We're sort of equating them to content creators in some shape or form when to be fair, they are studios. And I think that that barrier is still existing, but this year at GDC, I think there has been a lot more interest from the so-called non-UGC studios and non-UGC publishers to talk and engage and and bring the UGC studios and creators onto the fold. Maybe because

that is the bright spot. Maybe because there's a lack of opportunities and funding and interest on the other side on the traditional gaming side, but I have seen that there is a better acceptance for the first time and certainly their willingness to come after last year's Roblox partner program needs.
But I also see from the traditional studios they're seeing that they need to extend the shelf life of their game, right? And how you do that by creating more experiences. And when you have a dev team of, you know, 20, 30, 40, you just can't feed that need from from the gamers who love your game. So if you can integrate UGC in a safe way like what Overwolf's doing with Hogwarts Legacy or with Krafton's Inzoi, to me it seems like a a no-brainer. So yeah, I think people are seeing it as a pipeline for more revenue and retention also.
I think it's also driven by the fact that traditional right holders, you know, think of, you know, film studios, etc., which may have

done a mobile game or may have done, you know, a licensed PC game even though those are rare, certainly are doing a lot in Roblox and and and UGC overall. So Roblox, Fortnite, you know, Overwolf, etc. And so that's naturally taken note by the game studios that would have probably gotten those licenses before and that's why they're saying, "Oh, okay. Let's take a look at that."
So I think we've covered like the only upside that I'm seeing or the positive moments have been around AI and UGC. And there from what I've seen, there does seem to be a lot of fear particularly in game studios when it comes to raising follow-on rounds. Have you seen more negative sentiment or where have you seen kind of doom and gloom this GDC?
So that was going back to the first question around the sentiment, right?
Yeah.
So, it's very clear that this GDC is much thinner in terms of attendance than

last year for sure and previous years. Um I am yet to see, but maybe I have not been the in the right places. The festival side of or the festival of gaming or the consumer oriented side of this event. Um and what I've noticed is that studios have decided to not come. Predominantly studios.
Yeah.
Um some for political reasons, some boycotting on on the actual state of it being here in San Francisco and the the prices and the being tone deaf to the state of the industry.
Yeah.
Hot take, I think is that those are in some cases, you know, convenient excuses. That's
you know, concerning, right? Because

I I'd say you'd want GDC to continue being a grouping of of these studios and develop and publishers and and investors. Who I've seen stay here and still come here are uh investors.
Yeah.
Uh they've certainly are are still coming. Maybe obviously because they have the the the money to do so. And so, I've never been to DICE and so I can't comment too much on that, but it feels like because the developers have decreased in quantity and investors have con you know, stayed consistent, it feels like the density of investors in this GDC is higher than ever, even though they're probably not absolute levels more of investors. And so it feels like it's a little bit more like Dice in that way than than a GDC. But again, I haven't been to Dice, so I can't comment. Um but the mood is, I'd say, not

the greatest. I think everyone is still living in uncertain terms. Um this is now probably the third GDC where we see the question of, "Oh, we're This year is going to change." But it hasn't changed yet. Uh yes, a lot of that is driven by the fact that there were unreasonable valuations and reasonable um investments and uh and and reasonable fund raises that were made unsustainable due to the downturn. Also, I think a lot of that is down to the fact that there was an oversupply of games in comparison to the uh uh the demand and the number of playable playing hours that consumers are expending. Um because again, the unit economics of gaming is such that these are pieces that require, in some cases, but most in average, a big time commitment in comparison to other content formats like music or film.

Um there's just been a confluence of variables, some of them we've mentioned before like AI, that have made the sentiment still beyond the doom and gloom. Publishers, for example, I'd say are coming but are cautious um on on where and how to deploy. Um I think developers are trying to be creative about how they're going to their business. What I've seen is that there is a a significant increase in project financing capital. Yeah. Uh and that's a shift certainly coming from the VC or a venture side that um may have not achieved the the returns that were hoped for but are still uh wanting to deploy um capital and be exposed to this growing in fact well growing to this fantastic industry to some extent obviously growing.
Yeah.
Um but in a different type of model.
Yeah. Are you talking more about like the UA financing? I feel like I've

Yeah, I've heard people talking about that everywhere this GDC and every fundraise most of the fundraises that we do the fundraise announcements that we do now has a component of UA financing and 2 years ago we never saw that in a announcement.
Yeah, so UA funding um last mile financing for you know, just pure straight-up project financing for studios that want to do um self-publish or already have um a publishing service partner like Shadow publishing etc. We're seeing more of that.
Mhm. So actually let's dive a little bit deeper into that. What does a fundable company or studio we can go with either look like in 2026 and how does that look like? What what's changed from 3 years ago?
This is not going to be a fair answer in any way. Um I think because of what I mentioned before that um the pipelines of production are much

more streamlined these days. It's much easier to go out with a product to market. I mean I'm staying with a friend um which is operating a completely different field in the uh health care uh health tech space. Um and he was showing me the product of his new um company and the product looks awesome like you know, 3D rendering visualizations of molecules and proteins and that interface was in less than 6 weeks.
Mhm. Wow.
We exactly.
Yeah, that's why
the time to a demable product is so short these days that I think from an investment perspective the expectation is also shifted to you don't need to have a good product, you need to have users.
Yeah.
You need to have audience. You need to have community. And I think that's what

has now shifted since 3 years ago is that where previously you know having a a fantastic playable demo
Yeah.
uh in the case of a game or a great tool was perhaps interest enough to peak the interest of a investor now I think the bar has been elevated to the next logical step of that journey which is you need to have a community if not already users.
Yeah, but I also think I mean I 100% agree with you what you're saying with AI, but I also think a lot of that comes from a lot of the studios that were funded in the pandemic when money was free and available because they had worked at the great AAA companies before and that was enough to get 40 50 million and even if you build a beautiful game, it doesn't mean that players are going to come cuz most players are still playing their favorite games like Grand Theft Auto from 7 years ago.
That's an interesting topic. I don't

want to interrupt you but I think
Go ahead. I I think that you know, I I think a lot of investors lost a lot of money on those deals and now need to approach if they're if a studio is even does it even need to be venture backed, right? And if it does, what are the signals that are going to show this type of success that where they'll have those returns that they need for their LPs.
Yeah, I think that uh to comment on how players are still playing their favorite game from seven years ago. There's actually a recent post about this. I don't know whom, so we'll have to attribute it later, but I do like to credit the people that I mentioned. Um that talked about that, how they had reduced um you know, from 400 games to four games or something like that, right? And it was uh interesting cuz I I see a lot of that in in in times of crisis just broadly not gaming industry crisis,

just instability, uncertainty where content and entertainment is seen as comfort food. And so you probably want to go back to the things that you love to make you feel good about yourself so that you can face the hardships of life out there. And games is I think a a great example of that. Which is why um you know, one of the reasons is why I think uh music in games, video game music is also a great example of that type of comfort food because you go go back to the soundtracks that you loved and make you feel good about the eras of playing I don't know, in my case SimCity 3000 for example. Um so yes, I I there's a little bit of that reduction of of games played um in the equation of what makes this an investable product by looking at the signals that will then say, is this going to be enough to be someone's

comfort food in 10 years time? Are the signals there? And you know, I very classic metric, but wish list on Steam on the case of PC is a great example. And I know of a few companies more on the tooling and infrastructure side that try to get a better um not dashboard, but certainly set of analytics around wish listing and around pre-development uh sorry, pre-launch signals so as to make the decisions around development uh more guided, but also I'd say presenting a better picture to publishers, presenting a better picture to investors, and other financing partners.
I want to touch one more thing on the comfort food angle because one of the people I was most excited to meet here is the Neopets guys.
I saw them uh walking around, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, which I uh love love the old-school nostalgia game, so I was particularly excited uh to meet them this this GDC.
Have you?

Very very uh briefly, but I I have a meeting uh tonight, so I know I can geek out on
Keep us posted.
on Neopets. Um I want to totally shift gears. This touches a little bit with UGC, but a couple of years ago you wrote what you called the third age of transmedia, and that's the idea that culture's become scalable, and now we are entering a new era of like cross-platform storytelling. We've already talked about how AI has changed content creation, and gaming is kind of in the middle of that. How has that thesis held up? What did you get wrong?
So, first of all, I love the question because uh frankly you chose that you've done a lot of research, but also I love being questioned about things that I wrote like 3 years ago and saying like, "Hmm, is this still valid?" I have to say there's a lot of things that I got wrong, but the broad underlying element of the thesis, I think, still holds true. And that is that

it actually is connected to the comfort food angle, so it's I don't think it's a big shift. Um the desire for people to just consume more of what they love is something that is normal in people. Like, don't get me wrong, I think consumption um desires are about new things, but also about things that they know they love, right? Um if you look at food, there's a lot of that. Um and so in forms of entertainment, there's naturally a lot of that in gaming, there's going to be a lot of that. With regards to the third age of transmedia, the things that I got wrong are the fact that I certainly assumed that there was going to be a bigger structural emphasis on creating companies that weren't designed based on production pipelines, but rather on

stood up of a particular IP, because these production pipelines had become more easy to expand into, less technically requiring, uh again, because of the many things that we've talked about before. And so I was expecting there to be just IP companies that just so happened to then let's say start in books, but then go into YouTube, or go then from YouTube to mobile game, or to Roblox games, or something very similar to stand up, and then eventually would get into uh a PC game, and eventually a film, right? And along the way they would go and do a soundtrack. So, those companies we're still seeing some of them being created, but I've yet to see some that have um really risen. Maybe there's not been enough time to do so, but there's companies out there that are are are doing this type of an approach. Um

and you know, I'm happy to give some examples, but the things that I've think still hold true is that there is value in consumers and players and users and whatever we want to and fans being given the opportunity to explore the stories and the games and and the worlds that they love through other mediums.
Totally.
Again, I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't think true. Music is a classic example of that. Um but we're seeing so many adaptations of um games into film and TV. You know, I met the Story Kitchen guys.
to say we the Story Kitchen guys are here and not only are they just doing, you know, traditional games like Lara Croft Tomb Raider, they're doing uh Steel Brain Rot, right? They're doing Roblox experiences on film, which I think is a big shift towards what we thought transmedia would look

like.
Ab- absolutely. And so I think the that underlying element of the thesis, I think still holds true
Absolutely.
even if the economic agents haven't been built and certainly elevated in the way that I thought that they would have.
So, now that we've uh gone through some past predictions, let's talk some future predictions. If you had to bet on one platform shift, whether it's spatial computing, agentic workflow, UGC, what are you watching more most closely? Like what are you most excited for?
Yeah, well, um boring answer, but there's there's an element of how AI is not necessarily helping the production pipeline, but rather uh allowing new game typologies to exist. So, for example, I mentioned Omea. That's a foundational uh model company, but just because they have created something new on the deep layer of the

technology, that has seeped into allowing themselves to create a new not certainly type of game but a new approach to game development. Another company is Iconic Games which is London based. They're using voice and NLP as a means to to allow a new format of game. Let's call it a voice command game. Um that's the kind of stuff that I'm interested in to see in the gaming space. Um I'd say in the short term because these technologies are here. Um there's just a bit of a jump to try and make the technology layer applied to um a particular project and then have a particular creative of the many projects that get created to be elevated into a

commercial and critical success. Um that's on the short term I think. I mean obviously in the mid term I'm still bullish on spatial overall but that's going to take uh a hot minute.
Um okay. What I'm going to actually change our last question. What's been your favorite GDC moment this week? I'm keeping it broad intentionally.
Uh I mean someone gave me a lemon business card.
What? Like an actual like physical
lemon.
Okay.
Yes. So this is a company called Lemon Sound which is very interesting in the in my space of music and games. They're a marketplace for composers you know music composers and and music producers to apply to be part of a game score or game musical direction. And the

converse element of that is that a game developer like a studio and indie studio etc. goes in and says like hey we have a new game we want a soundtrack or a score for this. Who wants to to to come in and and bid for this? And their business card is a lemon. Literally a lemon.
Experimental marketing works. Get Seattle podcast
talking about it.
And then is there anything else that we haven't covered GDC trend wise that you'd like to touch on?
Not totally new but I've certainly seen more companies start talking about Asia distribution
Oh, interesting.
as an angle to help game developers and and certainly the interest from the other side is well of course we'll take the money, right? Because it's it's how do we can expand and maximize the the return on an already previously sunk investment. So I think there's that type of service uh and I have a a

good friend doing that with their own company. I've seen more of and more awareness that that is something that can be done uh and certainly more service providers here in GDC.
Okay, that's really interesting. I haven't had those conversations yet. Um and then I'm going to ask you a question and we we also can cut this out if you don't if you don't like the response.
I love when a question has the disclaimer of it's it can be
Are you worried about the games industry?
That's a great question. I'm worried about all the industries.
Yeah.
I am not necessarily specifically more or less worried about the games industry. I'm worried about all the industries. And I mean not just all the creative industries. I'm worried about all the industries. In some way shape or form I would say that the creative industries are what

I'm worried less about than other industries. The reason being it comes from a a long-standing um idea of mine that in the future of course um more automation and um AI there has been a lot of conversation about we won't need to be productive because we may just have UBI's or subsidy-like style of um compensation be given to us, right? Now, I I am not innately qualified to discuss UBI to be honest because it is touching on so many different aspects of how a society is organized, but also how we as individuals face our own fate psychologically speaking, right? What does that mean for not just our ambition, but our drive to socialize or

our drive to have family or so many other things that get impacted when your goal is different than what it has been for millennia to some extent. Um that is akin to the change that happened in society when we moved from hunter-gatherers to like So, I the the long-standing little belief that I've had is I am I'm worried about the impact that has, but if anything, if that indeed is the future that many are saying that it can be, which again I'm not saying it is, I would say the creative industries are going to be winning for the sole reason that there is a significant amount of

pleasure and fulfillment extraction for the action of being creative and for the action of creating something. And so, if for some reason large swaths of or the entire population indeed gets millions of hours that now can be used up in a way that haven't been done before, I think a lot of them are going to be not not all of them. A lot of them are going to be used for consumption.
Yeah.
But a lot of them are going to be used for creation. And so, even if they are even if we take the commercial angle out of it, just from a pure artistic and creative and rich, diverse um amount of creative output that we'll see, maybe that is going to be a golden era of so many amazing pieces of art and entertainment and content like there has

never been before. Discoverability will still be a problem, but you know, we're taking commercial commerciality out of this equation. That's going too philosophical right now.
No, I actually think that is a beautiful answer to end on. So, thank you so much for joining me and having our GDC chat and thank you to everyone tuning in on the Navic podcast.
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