Artist vs. Manager

Yes, thank you so much for coming. I know it's early. I know the weather doesn't support that. I was running here because I thought it going to be light because of that. So, I'm here. Kind of my heart still beating, but um yes, super happy to hear you know, to see and hear so many people here. Thank you so much for this introduction. Very good, very good job. So, I'm and my name is Kacper. Thank you so much um for being here and um I think I'm going to hit a topic that might not be very attractive from the outside, but when we're going to start to talk about it and go a little bit deeper, I think it might be really really helpful. And that's the that's the reason for this talk. So, before I'm going to start, I would like to put like a few points out there just to make sure that we are will be on the same line here. Meaning lately when we talk with many of my

friends being directors, art directors, managers, leads, and people trying to even be on this path, they have a very um they have a lot of a lot of struggle of of what the job is and what they're supposed to do and how to do it. And we talk a lot and I felt like this is something that might be and should be probably talked more because I know it's not easy. And um and I think we don't talk about not only artistic work, but what goes with this artistic work because just it goes hand by hand. Um so, of course, this talk will be based Oh, sorry. I forgot I got this. Uh the this talk will be based on my personal views. So, um there's a big chance some of you might have different perspective, might have different solutions. This is based on my perspective. I but I would try to sell some of my ideas and some of some of my perspectives to help you um judge whether or not this is for you. Uh also I know that some of these topics might be very basic for some of you

because there's a huge part of our jobs that we're going to talk about and you see those things you're going to see what things every single day. So, for some of you it might be very basic, but I still feel like there's a power in this to talk about it because uh even last evening we we met with the whole art art direction summit crew and we talked about that and I felt like this is very important to talk about it because you can see that you're not alone with this madness. And whatever you feel like you might be alone, it actually turns out that people have the same struggles. So, talk about that can help a lot. And the last point is uh of course, I know this is art direction summit. We will not talk purely about art. We're going to talk about things very connected to doing art, but it will not be purely artistic talk. I I made sure that this is very well described on the art on the description of the session. However, I really want to highlight this a bit. Uh and all what I said before is that talking about those things, making sure that you understand, you're listening, and you're listened to helps

to find your solutions, find your ways. Like for example, me, I remember back in 2017 when I hit GDC for the first time and back then we were right after we shipped the Blood and Wine and we started working on Cyberpunk. And I had a lot of questions about how to manage. Uh and I remember one at the one point we had this conversation internally like how we can work with designers. Those guys are talking totally different language. And this talk was very helpful because it showed like how much of what I feel and my struggles are how different people have the same struggles. However, also because I did the research for this talk and I I watched it again after 7 years almost, my perspective changed a lot. And Danny's talk again because it's Danny's talk from 2017 and he talked about what he would like to know before going into art director role and he pointed out those things. And that talk felt like a big struggle. And for me I was in the same place. However, 6 years 7 years has passed and I felt like I improved a lot and I changed my perspective. And this is the talk that I would like to

and share some of the ideas with you. However, before we start, I would start with some small Q&A session here. I'm super interested into uh can you please raise your hand who's in a either manager position, art director position, leading position here? Wow, okay, perfect. Thank you so much for coming here. Who is maybe thinking about getting into this path, but is not there yet? Super cool. And maybe someone that is asking this question whether or not you want to do it and you're still thinking about where to go? Either way. Okay, perfect. One one person there. Thank you so much. It's great because that's exactly the crowd I would like to have here. So, we're going to have conversation here, okay? Of course, please keep your the questions to yourself. Uh at the end I mean, of course, there's going to be a Q&A session at the end of the talk, but it's packed as usual. So, I will try to do Of course, also this talk is very high level because the topic this topic is very very wide. So, I will make sure just to talk about those things, but you can always catch

me. I don't drink anymore, so no beers, but you know, we can drink Coke or talk about it. Uh and it's going to be a pure pleasure for me to talk about it. And also what Kid said, please remember about the service. I really want to see my face on a deck of card next year. Okay? This year was so close. So, I kindly give you. I'm open for bribes, so you know what I want. You can tell me what you want. We can make it work, okay? All right, let's go back to the topic. So, to everyone, I'm going to drop a bomb now, all right? I would like to sing for you for a second or two. Uh I really believe that people don't leave bad jobs, they do leave bad managers. Of course, it's a complex topic. However, what I um why I put it here? Because if you are thinking about being here or you are actually being here, you have to understand the big responsibilities that we we are having. We really have a lot of responsibility here, okay? And that's why I want to start with this quote. I also feel like it's really important to explain to you my perspective and

give you a bit more insight about me so you can understand why some of the things are viewed by me in a specific way. So, I work in Cyberpunk Red for in this May going to be ninth year 9 years, which is extremely crazy how fast the time flies. And since 2015 I'm sorry, 16, right after shipping The Witcher, I was asked to be a coordinator. Meaning I had we had a team of four people including me and our job was to build the book layer the the capital of Tucson. Uh and this is where my whole trip started. It was almost 8 years ago. So, I I I I went there from being a lead to Cyberpunk. And of course, we're leading a project right now, Phantom Liberty. And also there are a few things about myself. And I'm not trying to show you how cool I am and be like me. I'm trying to show that this is how I I could describe myself and those are actually curses. Like for example, I really feel like I like to work a lot. And I do, but not everyone is like that.

And shifting this perspective of you are the person that likes to work a lot, it doesn't mean everyone has to work a lot. Like also I'm a perfectionist, meaning I feel like the quality is something I really like to follow and I like to strive to, but sometimes I go to this extreme. So, I do have a problem with keeping the balance here to be healthy. However, this is what defines me, right? Of course, I love to create. Uh I believe in hard work. I love to create and what's here? I love to work with people, which is very very essential. But also what I try to try to say here is that I am an artist. And for example, what what you see here in the background, this is some of my works. Of course, it's a collaboration of the whole team. However, I do love to work in doing art. However, also I I I I stepped in and I um I also started doing the manager point of work, let's say. There should be music here. It just So, it might be just a little bit too quiet. Uh just making sure this is not very important, but later on we're going to have some music that should be

heard. Okay, I will keep going because we don't have much time, but more pretty pictures right here. But if you play Cyberpunk, you probably know what's what's what's in the store for you here, okay? Uh and also of course, just more intro to wrap it up. After this talk, I would really love for you to uh for you for you I mean, the managers that maybe I can help you and you're going to have some takeaways from here. Maybe some of you will be like, "Okay, hey, this is really stupid. Change your perspective." And we'll love to love to talk about that because I would love to learn. I still learn a lot. Uh because this talk is not for me. I mean, not me being here and telling you, "Please be like me. I know what to do." This is the opposite. I'm just sharing my perspectives. Maybe you're going to be able to have some takeaways. However, I learn every single day, okay? So, I really hope after this talk some of you might have a clear picture. But also those people that are here thinking about whether or not they want to be managers, art directors, leaders,

go to this path. Even if some of you going to be like, "God damn, I hate this." And you're going to leave, my job is done because I probably saved like two three years of your career. And that's exactly why I'm here, okay? All right, so I will kick this talk with this talk with our Phantom Liberty trailer. If you haven't seen it, have fun. And this is where the music should kick in. Yeah, we have to have some music. It's not that impressive with the music, I know. Maybe I did something wrong here.

Neither. Let's see. No, it's not. It's really good. Okay, we we're almost after. So, don't worry about it. It's really we can go with without the sound at this point. So, my question will be I hope of course you enjoyed the trailer. It's so cool. It's very loud. THANK YOU. SO, I RECOMMEND GO ON YOUTUBE watch the

trailer because it's really epic. I hope to share with you, but you know, we have 50% of the experience go for the other one right now. But, my question will be guys, in your perspective, what makes the content with with that we do as a as a industry so cool? Okay. I will help you out. I really believe that that those are the things that you work with, right? This is the the working war machine that's making all this awesome content, right? They're they're they're the people that are in those called trenches and doing the hard work heavy lifting of right. So, of course this is some of our teams. Say hello to everyone. Our team is really really great. So, of course those teams do need some support. They do need directions. They need some help. They need like a almost like a family figure that would just keep them together. And then when we are stepping in. And by way, I would really like to define the definitions for this talk. Meaning, if I will refer for if I would say like manager, art director, leader, and of course again as a manager, I feel like

this is just the group of people responsibilities responsibilities that we are basically grabbing the resources that we have and making sure the game or whatever project working on will be delivered in a proper time and a proper quality. Whereas the artist is basically person that have the job to be hands-on. They're they're just working hard and making sure the quality and the content is there. But, so this is the difference. And of course for this experience for this talk, we're going to have to take the manager's path and I would take you with the on the journey with me about that. So, the first step I think it's very important forever of course to those people that are thinking about stepping into this into this role, the first step is to in my opinion, you have to have the will to change yourself. Meaning, it is a absolutely different job than what you had before. Of course, in most cases the highest let's say rating artist in the team is being asked, "Hey, maybe you're going to

be a art director. Hey, maybe you're going to maybe you'll be a leader or you're going to be managing the team because you're the best right now." Which is not always the case because at some point this is just a different job. We will take I mean, the job will require you to to take away some of your parts of this creative job and be a manager. Okay? So, you have to change yourself. Like for example, we had a lot of workshops, a lot of training. Our company invest a lot of time and effort into us so we're going to be just better because it require requires a lot of different skill sets that we had before. Another thing that I think it's crucial for everyone in this industry is to work and to love to work with people. I know we had some companies with like one one person in the company and it's absolutely fine, but whenever you have two people working together, that's a team. And you have to love to work with people because that's how we can collaborate. That's simple as that. And I know we have introverts, extroverts, and it's really hard for some people to understand that, but thinking about moving in this position, there's no way you will work with people all the time

and it probably more than you might ever think of. And of course, when you are in this position in most cases, the biggest responsibility going to be at at the beginning to build a team. Meaning, you have to go recruit people, find the proper people that you would like to work with both from personal point of view, meaning the soft skills, and the hard skills, meaning if the artist you know, meets meets your quality goals, right? Very important. But, on top of that, I think it's very rewarding because when you have a team that's been built by you and it works, you have the project done, you really feel super fulfilled. Like for example, I feel like a father sometimes. Like we did this together. It's so cool. And of course, everyday interactions, meaning you have to talk with people all the time. There are especially of course in the different part of the project. Sometimes when you have this creative park part, you just have to go in and finish your job, but sometimes you have to talk a lot about things that has to be done, talk about how they're supposed to be done. So, talking to people is everyday job. Um

And of course, I think it's kind of self-explanatory. It would be nice to support each other. Our industry is very hard. There's a lot of hard work involved and we have to hug each other and support each other every single day. Um so, now we talked about yesterday. Now we're going to talk about what I feel like the manager if you in the manager manager's shoes, you have actually like three different people in your head, which is just crazy. Meaning, you have this expert, so that person that loves to create art and is like super skilled and has this very quality high quality level eye and that's the person that would just keep feedbacking and help the whole team to grow and make the quality that we all would like to get. Leader is this people that person that just leads the team, helps to be together, make sure everyone understand what's going on there, and follow the proper goals. And the manager is that person that um basically again what I said before, will take the resources that we have, figure

out the plan, and execute the plan and in order to have the quality on the time that we're supposed to have. And those are the let's say responsibilities for those parts of your brain. Those are the ones that are in between and it's just a tip of the iceberg. We just did You don't have to read this. I just showed you this to show you that there's a lot in our in our hands everyday. And I have awesome movie that just really supports this scientifically how this goes in my head at least and I feel like that because for example the easiest question in my head every single day is that okay, so the manager in my head goes, "We don't have time for that. Just stop." And then the expert goes, "No, the quality is not there. Let's push it." And I I just you have constant fights in your head because you have to find a solution within yourself, which is crazy. So again, this movie that you're going to show right now really explain and illustrate this problem in my head every single day, but we have to have music for that. Well, actually it's going to be Okay, it will not work like that, but

Yeah, right? I don't remember the whole quote, but it's like, "Drop your guns." No, I have a crossbows. So, drop your weapons. All right. But, they go like, "All right, then." Boom. That's good? THANK YOU. BUT YEAH, THAT'S ME EVERY SINGLE DAY ALL THE TIME WHEN you have decisions to make because you have different angles, you have different perspective, and you have to find this one goal that fits all those perspectives. So, I would say you have this like triangle of those three different again sides of the coin on the of the story. So, let's talk about leading. From my perspective it all starts. Of course, you have the team recruited, you have your crew and you're ready to go. The first thing in my head is very

important is that you have to create and I call this this team DNA. Meaning, you are responsible for creating values and and and beliefs in the team. And it's tricky because not everyone will be on the same line as you are, but it is responsibility responsible you're responsible for that to make sure that everyone understands for example that the basic block for everything is the trust, right? And every single team can have different values and it's fine. But, you are responsible for that and also aligning team team members in in our team to make sure that we are at least understanding each other. That's very important. That's I would say that's the first step. Get results, of course. We know it is creative industry. We love to create, but at the end this is business and we have to make sure the business is we will have cash for whatever you would like to spend the cash on, but we have to have something, right? So, this is our job is to get results, of course, making sure the team also feels fulfilled and creative happiness. Uh Big influence on people's lives. That's crazy important because you literally

you literally can break someone's life. Like first of all, you can you know, you're responsible for someone to be promoted. Uh you're responsible for that person um What's the word here? Um improvement path. That's the proper word. You have to make sure that people understand what they need to do to get better every single day. But, on top of that, you can maybe you're going to have to fire someone. Maybe you will not get to get someone's promotion. And those are really hard decisions. Also, I brought a lot of people from different parts of the world into our country and I'm responsible for for marriages and even kids because I brought people they met and they actually have kids right now. It's crazy. That part is positive, but that's also the part which is not that positive. So, you have to understand that it's very important to understand how heavy your job is because you literally have a heavy impact on people's lives that you're going to work with. Being hands-on, I think that's given. You have to, I mean, in my opinion, of course, you should be able to work hands-on. We're going to define what does it mean hands-on later on a slide,

but I think that's very important to highlight here that this one of the crucial things to be a leader of the team. Uh and oh and ego. Uh we as an artist, right? We we very often felt like whatever going to get a feedback, you felt offended, it hurts. It's fine because we are really connected to our art, right? Uh however, when you are in the leader's position, ego cannot exist because it's not about you, it's about the team, the project, and the whole big picture. And it's not easy. I know that. For me also sometimes hurts. I feel bad sometimes that I feel like, you know, I would like to say, "No, I want to this." But I really understand the big picture and it's like not about you, it's about the project and the team. And uh I think that's for me very important as well. When I hear people saying, "My team." I always have like a small red alarm clock in my head because, of course, not everyone uh says this with, you know, uh exactly knowing, but I think there's a big difference between saying, "My team." Meaning, "Do that.

I'm going to sit here and drink my beers." Or our team meaning, "Okay, I'm going to go with you guys. We're going to do it together. We're in trenches." Doesn't mean you're going to have to do the same exact job that that that the team does, but you're there. They believe in you, they trust you, and they understand that whatever you do, you do it together. That's why our team is very important to understand the difference. It's a huge difference. Um of course, we have to keep motivation going. That's something that makes us wake up uh every single day from our beds. However, motivation can go and can can you know, can stay and go within the minutes. Very important thing is to understand that uh habits and I know discipline Sorry, that's going to be later. But But also that's going to be connected. But however, uh what I meant on motivation is also very connected to ownership meaning uh motivation can go and can stay and go. However, it's also um different there are two different types of motivation. When you talk about motivation meaning creative work, I believe strongly that

we have to give people uh autonomy, ownership. Meaning, we have to trust people to understand what they have to do and let them do that. They It will mean they will fail 5 10 15 times, but there's no other way to to to uh to learn and teach. Of course, at some point you have to step in saying like, "Okay, this doesn't work and we have to do something." Because it's your job it went too far, but you have to give people the space to be creative and open and give them some tools. So later actually, they will be able to work by themselves, not with you um implemented. And to be fair, uh that also helps you because uh when you have a very self um self-driven team, your job is easier because you can just say, "Hey, this is the goal. Go there." And that's it, right? Of course, it's so much easier said said than done, but that's the perfect team in my opinion. Um of course, we have to understand that motivation comes also from uh respecting everyone, right? Meaning, of course, we have empathy. Empathy is this very simple word that everyone uses, but I'm

not sure if everyone understands. So from my perspective, empathy is where you might not agree with everyone, but you understand the the person's point of view and you can adjust your thinking, you can adjust your, you know, um decision-making to make sure that people that have different point of view at least feel like they're heard and you try to find the sweet spot in between. Extremely important because if you you know, uh is the saying like you have two uh two ears, one mouth, right? You have to understand and learn how to listen and then talk, not the other way. And to be fair, I'm not good at this. I know I'm not. I'm trying my best, but still this is not something that I really all the time trying to improve. And I think app- appreciation uh and and uh recognition is something that everyone understands. People wants to be appreciated and recognized when they do the good job. And please do that. We also had this in our team like 3 weeks ago this talk about exactly this topic that we don't appreciate each other enough. When we have reviews, we go like, "Change this, change that. That's not good enough." But we don't go like, "That's really [ __ ] cool. That's awesome. That's super nice." And we have to do that all

the time. And that's very important because without that people don't feel like they're doing something, you know, good. They don't feel worth They they They don't feel like any worth. Um So that's very uh very important. And of course, on top of that, that's our job as a leader, but that's also job, in my opinion, in our team, internal team members because they also should talk together, help each other. Because I always say, the team can give much better feedback than I can ever uh give because they are awesome artists. They understand each other's problems more than I would ever do because I am a little bit in the different position right now. So it's not only the leader's job. Leader's job is like put those seeds in, but the whole culture of appreciation should just grow within the teams. That shouldn't be like that. Hold on. Okay, now it's fine. Uh so I want to say before about the keeping motivation thingy. Uh motivation can can come and go very easily, but it's cool to be motivated all the time, but there going

to be hard times, right? Not everyone everything going to go as planned. We're going to have hard times, we're going to have problems. There's a little different reasons why motivation can go away. That's why I feel like very important thing is to work about think about and work about on the habits. Meaning, habits is that something that you initially, instantly just do, right? And it's not easy because people love to have, you know, very friendly environments and our to to work. And our job is to make sure that we do whatever we can, but also when the times are hard, there are things like habits that have to be changed. And sometime I know the discipline is not the most positive word ever, but I really feel like I strongly believe in this discipline because that is what keeps you going. Like that is what makes you go further. Uh you have to of course be careful about that, not go too far, but I feel like that's a very important thing to to think about. And it also goes not only to the leaders, but that actually applies to the team members as well. Every single day actually. Um well, I think I I I would say this is very obvious. Tough decisions every

single day. Um and I like this quote. I hope it's visible here is that um you know, sometimes the the and I'll help hard thing and the and the and then um My god, sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same. And this is really really true. Sometimes it's really hard to find the sweet spot between what's supposed to be done. And while I uh use the E3 trailer because I felt like back in the day it was the trailer that we released from 2018. Uh this trailer was one big tough decision every single day. That's why for me it's like a really memory uh lane that we got. Um being outside of comfort comfort zone. And also I feel like that's something that we do all the time because both of those topics are connected like, you know, being outside the comfort zone and having the tough decisions. And I really want to highlight that it's not only not only the lead or managers or art directors, you know, life, let's say. Every single artist has a different perspective. Meaning, a very tough decision for

artist can be as tough as any other uh tough decision on us, art directors, you know, leads, whoever. Of course, it's a different level of the toughness, but I felt like the stress it's really really something that we have also all the time uh in across the whole team. So it's not like only, uh let's say, reserved on the for the managers. It goes the whole through the whole team. Uh also with the comfort zone thing, I felt like I feel I'm out of the comfort zone all the time. Of course, I have like days which are much better sometimes, but I do feel very sometimes um again out of my comfort zone. But to be fair, that's the only feel like that's the only way I felt like it is uh the only way to improve. Because if you are feeling like you're in comfort zone and you don't do anything new, which actually makes you go out of the comfort zone, you just don't improve. And again, this applies to everyone, not only the managers. Of course, we have different decisions, different topics to cover, but every single artist when um the person wants to improve, that probably person has to go outside the comfort zone. So that's something

that it's not only reserved for for the managers. Uh putting out fires. This is something that I also feel like everyone can relate to um especially in the bigger teams. There's always going to be conflict which we have to go in and help. Sometimes in our teams I really try to make sure that the teams are the first that try to talk to each other and make sure that you know, they will clear the air between them. But sometimes it escalates and we have to go in and help them. Uh and I'm so I sometimes I have a day, my calendar is like empty, I'm super happy because maybe this day will be kind of relaxed a bit more, but then, you know, uh it just happens. I I I sometimes have to just go and spend the whole day talking to people, make sure they don't um they understand each other. So that's But that's also goes putting out the fires on a different level, but that goes across the whole team. So again, nothing very close and and reserved only for the managers, but the whole team as well. And because of that, because we talk to each other, because we go out of the comfort zone, we try to understand different perspectives, that builds the

trust. And what I mean about the trust, in our teams I really believe that and I try to push this as much as I can, I really believe that everyone should be able to say what they think. Of course, in a very specific way and use specific words for that. However, be able to express what they think. Because without that, there's no trust and with the there's no trust, there's no way you're going to build a healthy team because people would not like to talk to you and they will keep things away from you. And that will explode. Bad emotions, they don't go away. They always come accumulate and after some time they explode. And when they do, it's in most cases too far and too late. So please make sure that people trust you and talk to you. And of course, I it's hard to say, "Make sure everyone trusts you." Because trust being is being built by time and just working together. But that's very important. And what I think helps to build the trust is, in my opinion, being able to also be honest with yourself. And I know that sometimes people feel like I'm the manager. I'm the lead. I'm director. I have to know everything. Which is not true. There's a lot of

things you will not know. Every single day. And you have to be honest about that. And when you say, "I don't know. Let's talk about it. Help me out here. Maybe you know more than I do." People know, "Okay, this guy is not a robot." You know, he doesn't know everything. And and and that builds trust because it can puts puts that level between you and other people so much closer. And when you talk about things and you solve things together, that's where the trust is starting to build. Very important thing. And so please don't forget about it. Again, in my opinion. Uh so small tips how I think can help to help you get the leading process a little bit more smoother. First of all, something that I really really um ignored for some time, let's say. When I was a young leader or even coordinator back in the day, I felt like, "Oh, there's something off. I don't know what's going on, but I don't feel comfortable about whatever decision, planning, something, dates, whatever." But I felt like I don't have concrete data, so I don't know how to you know, like um present my, let's say, gut feeling that

something is off. And very often that that something off went to be bad estimates, bad quality, bad timing, something happened that I I know and that just exploded. So please follow your gut feelings, follow your instincts. It's really sometimes something that is there. You understand? You're experts in this field. You know what things are coming in the whole project and the whole equation. So you know and very often you know and see more things than other people. So your job is to do that. Say, "Hey, I think it's something is off. Let's sit down here, talk about it and see whether or not it's not." And very often I did that. I sit with the producers. We start counting like, for example, days and turn like we forgot about this or that. And the that, you know, and the date was just impossible to keep. And we did have to shift things. So please keep about at least in mind. Listen to the team, the same thing. I really believe that, of course, when you have the trust and you listen to the team magic will happen because those people also know a lot. You You recruited them. You hired them for a reason. They very often, well, they should be great

experts in their fields and they should be able to help you. And they are there to help you. Really. Very often they just don't feel like maybe there's a space for it. And if of course it's on us to make the space for them to be feel comfortable and be able to talk. But when they do, they have much much better ideas than you do. Really. And sometimes it's just like much easier to say, "Hey, we have this problem. Think about it. Let me know what you think and how we can solve that." And they do. When you don't know what's going on the teams, you can ask, "Hey, what's going on? Why Why this meeting was so quiet? Why was that person felt, I don't know, bad or something?" And they will tell you that. And they will tell perspective that very often you don't see. Which is sad, but that's how we have to work. We have to listen to the teams. It's very very important. Uh see the big picture. What I said before, we see much bigger picture as the teams inside and doing the creative work. But in order to um make sure they understand what they're doing, it's very important for us to show them the big picture and explain why what they're doing makes sense in a bigger scale of the story. Uh because they don't need to see the big

picture. Sometimes it's just too much for them to translate, but you have to track the the whole process. So that's very important thing. And the last thing is that prioritize and execute. I think that we talk about this all the time. Meaning in most cases, I can probably guarantee everyone going to relate to this. We have much more to eat and chew than the plate is, right? And we have to figure out what we can take on us. Meaning sometimes it might just like three out of 50 things to be done in one day. But it's fine. You have to understand that if you're going to be able to prioritize and execute, first of all, you take away the stress of your shoulders because you will not try to um expect yourself to do all those 50 things, let's say, in a day. But you can just build a plan. Which is so much easier to say than done. I know that. But it's really something very very important. I'll just check the time. Okay, we're good. I think we're good. Uh so yeah, so let's say that was just in a nutshell what the lead supposed to be and how the lead responsibilities also translate to the to to the team. And also it's not only us. We have the teams to support us and also we have to

respond be responsible for the teams. Um second thing, the expertise. Meaning the the expert in our head, right? Meaning I really believe that um we cannot stop doing creative work, especially if you're artists and you would like to still be creative and you don't don't like to lose this um you know, good eye, good sense of art perspective. That's very important. But also from my perspective, when um when I was in our project, I had a year or so that I was not doing any creative job work. And when I start to do some because I had to help out the teams a bit my perspective changed. My feedback was so much more spot-on because I understood the perspective of the teams, understood the tools, understood what the problems are. It is really important to understand what are the trenches. So to so to say, right? And of course, it might be different perspective. It also might be different way of creative work because also for me creative work is not only being able to put a tree here or a rock there, but sit with a team, have a review and say, "Okay, this is good, but let's change that. Let's

change this vista. Let's change this composition over there." It also for me makes me feel like I'm doing creative job, but it's not might be only this very specific building, for example, the level on one of the asset or making the texture kind of job. Uh so it was like before being hands-on, I believe strong that's very important. However, I know it's not easy, especially from time time framing, but I feel like it's very important to find at least some time within your week to be able to do that and just make sure that you understand the perspective of the team and how the whole project. And of course, I think it's also what we talked before, something that's very important is just to keep improving yourself all the all the time. Our industry is extremely competitive. Every single week we have something new. Now, you know, the hot thing is AI and everyone's crazy about it. So, you know, we have to talk about those things. We have to understand how we can compete with with this new technical technical possibilities and make sure that the games we're doing are really really so much better every single time. Uh so something that I talked before, but I I would just like to show an example. So the big picture and small

picture thing. And I think that also um to give you perspective, let's say the one on the left Yes, the one on the left is the perspective for the director. Meaning the whole Night City is, you know, my picture. Then the lead goes, "Okay, so this district is my picture." And the artist goes, "Okay, so this district or this part of the district, my like two streets, two blocks, it's my perspective." And to be fair, it's a different level of perspective, understanding, team collaboration, solving problems, but it's the same thing that you have to go. So the artist going to have some problems. Small scale, but still they have to fight their their their fights. When we do have to talk about big picture like the district on the the district or, let's say, the whole in this case Night City we also have to talk about different things in our big picture. So it's not only we have to solve problems, find solutions, talk to the teams. Everyone has to do that. It's just a different perspective. Okay? So it's not only manager's job. Uh and expertise meaning

My bad. I'm super sorry. Okay, working with the teams um something that I said before is that Of course, I would love to show a little bit more of our current project, but I just can't. So we have some shots of the trailer and teaser that you briefly uh saw before. However, what I mean here is that whenever talk and work with your teams and being hands-on and help them out together, all those things what I said before, talked before are happening. You're building trust. You're making sure you understand their perspective. They are more open to talk to you. Uh and all those things that, you know, make the whole team comes together and make your own our team stand out, right? That's something what hap what happens. And I really know it's again easier said than done. But it is really important to be able to be part of the team, not being that guy on top of the mountain showing his fingers, go there and die because, you know, why not? You have to be hands-on and help the teams out. So that would be the part of the about the expert.

And then we have the part of the on the managing part, which I I believe is for for most of the people that don't had the chance to work on on let's say on this part yet, is the most terrifying one, right? Because you felt like you're going to have all this creative work to be stripped away from you and you're going to be sitting down in Excel sheets, doing planning and all those different you know, you might say boring things. However, for me from my perspective, yes, of course it is your job from that point because you have to help the teams. You have to plan the work. You have to find the quality. You have to talk with other teams, find the collaboration and making make all those things work together. That's true. However, my personal takeaway from, for example, Cyberpunk I was really bad at planning. Really. I still am, but still a little bit better than I was before. But I understand how important it is. Every single project right now, I understand I want to have a plan. I understand what we're going to do. How we can connect this plan of other teams, right? How this affect the time workload word load. How the team supposed to be big. How we have to

recruit. It's very very important. Uh also yes, we're going to have feedbacks. But from the feedback point of view, you can have different feedbacks. Like, "Hey, why this is not being done on time?" For example, which is the most crazy question ever, but I know this is the one that we're going to ask ourselves and the teams all the time. It's very important thing. Uh the meetings, I know that everyone probably understands that sometimes we have just filled calendar with meetings. Sometimes they're very important. Sometimes they're not. I think the big the big takeaway here is to understand that there's a lot of meetings that you don't have to be on and you can exclude those. Uh again, easier said than done. I know that. However, sometimes and I very strongly believe that, and I did it few times that when I just quit a meeting and I was not needed there, it would just went fine. I just have a note, fine. But sometimes when turn turned out I was really needed there, someone just approached me like, "Hey, you have to be there. Please come." And you know, you can try to think those things, but very often, you know, when you have a producer just having a having

a a meeting, they just like sometimes throw people because they might not understand maybe you don't need it there or maybe actually are. So, it's also up to you. However, and the meetings as well, it's not only for the team members, meaning the managers, but also for the team members. They have a lot of meetings right now. In our teams when we are, you know, trying to make the teams to be more much more um autonomous, uh those teams are just talking to each other all the time and they have meetings. They do that and they they talk. So, they also have to get this skill right. However, the part of the the our jobs, the meetings and talkings and making sure it's all good, it's very very important. Uh access sheets, you know, of course planning other tools, I think it's very important tool that comes to everyone's head. No, maybe you have your different tools, but the rule is the same. You have to uh you have to put those ideas and those solutions planning-wise in some some tools, right? And the planning I said. And of course, it's much more than that here. So, like those two dots supposed to uh illustrate that there's so much more, but I just wanted to show you that there will be things that you are not familiar familiar with

before and they not might be the best creative-wise jobs out there and the tasks out there. However, it will be part of your job. And you have to understand that because in a big picture perspective, this will help you to create the whole game and make sure the game have the quality that you like to have. Um so, that's a part about manager, but it's not all actually done with that because also we will have to talk about mentoring. And mentoring I feel like I I felt like, "Okay, so where I could put the mentoring? Either expert or manager or lead." However, I felt like mentoring goes, you know, from the whole different three perspectives because first of all, um you're going to have different perspective. Your expert will give feedback about, let's say, how the quality goes, what can be improved, how to make this asset better, how to make this location better, how to improve this composition. That's the part about this creative process from the expert point of view. But the lead can say, "Hey, really, you know, um the conversation you had with the team member the other day was really not okay. Let's talk about it because I felt like, you know, something happened there and how can avoid this in the future."

Or the manager can go, "Hey, this plan doesn't make any sense. How do we can make it work?" So, mentoring is basically making sure talk to every single team member in in in in our teams and help them out with different perspective. But they have to learn all the time. And in most cases, probably you're going to be also the one that should give the feedback because you are the most experienced one or you know the most. But it doesn't mean you have to force anything to on anyone's ideas. You have to be open what I said before to listen to the teams. That's very very important. Um So, of course what I said before, right? The the the feedback for the teams, for the individual members, it always goes. Uh development path, it's also something that we have to work on and that's also something that I'm not the best at, but I know it's very important I'm trying to improve myself, meaning every single um part a team member of of our teams should understand what's the path, what's the next step, what has to be improved, what has to be kept, what has to be introduced to to make it better because everyone actually wants to be better. They want to improve, but sometimes they need some help. Of

course, it's awesome to have team members which are self-aware 100%. That would be perfect, but not everyone's like that. And we have to we have to help them with that. Which is very hard. Because if you have team of I have like team of 17 people right now, which is you can say whether it's bigger or not, but I feel it is really big. And it's uh it's a struggle to make sure because your decision also can directly affect the path for that person of that person's career, which is very stressful. Right? Because you really want I hope everyone here wants to help everyone in the teams and really make sure that they will be better and better every single day. Uh and self-improve uh improvement I talk about because I felt like this is very important as well because you should also mentor yourself, meaning you should talk to someone else. You should read some books. You should find some solutions. Like very often when I have a hard day at work and after, you know, the whole day is done, I'm thinking my to myself, "My god, this was really horrible day." And I did this this and that. It was really bad. What can I do better? And I talk to

people. I read books. I'm trying to find solutions, which is not easy. Uh I know I'm this person that I do love to get bad feedback, meaning meaning the feedback what I should improve. I know not everyone's like that. I know there are people that just love to hear good things. I I'm the opposite. I hate good things. I just bring me bad stuff. I'm here. Uh but again, I felt like we have to be open about that because that's the only thing and the only way you can improve. So, just think about that. And of course, also I love this quote where uh I'm from Richard Branson, "Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough so they don't want to." That's really good because you will really want to have awesome teams that will going to do awesome job, but also you're going to build environments so well suited for them that they will not want to leave. Which is super hard to do. It's easier said than Yes. Thank you. Okay, uh we have to push a little bit further. Something that I feel really feel like um is not I heard that.

I heard that. So, I'm not alone here. Thank you so much for that. Uh there's this place where everyone can found themselves in, meaning, you know, the loneliness the loneliness of the manager. Meaning, of course, what I said before, you're going to do have to make a tough decisions, meaning sometimes those decisions going to have positive impact on the big picture, but are very certain individual, they can be negative um decisions, right? Again, to the going to the extreme, you might have to fire someone. And people might not like it for you that for that, right? Because, you know, it's not the very friendly if you're doing this. So, it might corner get you to this corner thinking that you alone in this madness. No one wants to talk to you. No one wants to hear you and you have to just deal with this. And it's true. Sometimes you have to deal with those things by yourself. You have to think about it, find things to improve, change those things. But you have when you have a again, awesome team as as we have, talk to those people. I know sometimes take a day, take a week, you know, don't go like when you're like pumped, I'm going to talk to this guy like, "You!" Don't do that. Take a day, take a week

off, think about those things, take notes, and just talk about it, clear the air. But first of all also for me was extremely important and and helpful is to talk about things, whatever those things might be, those negative things, emotions to other leads, other managers, and HR partners. We have awesome HR team and for example, I have a huge support every single day when I'm down. So, when you talk to people, it's big chance you will never get there because you will solve the problems as they go, as they show. But if you don't and you're just going to keep those things to yourself, that's going to be a very dark place to be. And please keep it in mind. Conversation, communication, and solving problems as they go is the key to avoid this dark void to be in. It was dark, right? Uh I I did I did some small research um about, you know, what's going on in the industry. So, those those are the stats from 2001-2002 from different uh uh I think those actually start from

tech companies, not like game dev companies, but I think it might be similar, meaning it was just like a lot of companies they did surveys in the management management team and those are the results. As you can see like the 67% of the burnout was in those companies. 66% for burnout, I would say is pretty damn high, right? For managers. But then I checked what's the burnout rate for the IT industry for everyone and it's around 60%. So, it just turns out our IT or game dev industry is really tough. But it doesn't mean like the burnout is super high only for managers. Of course, it's high rate because you are on the edge every single day. That's true. However, it is just what we have to fight for and and make sure that we are, you know, taking step back if you need to. Take a day off, week off, month off, you know, go to holidays, just take some breaks if you need to. Uh and you had other stats like, uh you know, a lot of us feel overwhelmed. Yes, I think that's that's that's that's obvious. Um what do you have here? Like increased pressure. Yes, please. Of course, every

single day I wake up sometimes and I'm like, "Oh my god, that's going to be tough." Uh and long hours, 59%. That's one thing that we out maybe say solved in our teams because after um you know, doing this project we're doing right now, we have no extra hours policy. Really, there's the teams are not doing extra hours, which is just crazy how far we went from what was in our company like let's say 3 years ago. So, that's a huge benefit, but still there are some like this IT sector I would say or game dev sector is really still tough about doing overtimes and and extra hours. So, which is not good and it's not positive. I'm trying to show you that uh the stats overall are not very positive, unfortunately. Um and very often I also have this question from uh from other friends, you know, actually leads, art directors uh saying that, "Okay, so I I was a lead. I was a art director. I finished this project. I don't want to do it anymore. It was fun, but I want to go back and do some creative jobs." And does it good? I mean, does it like is it

making doesn't make any sense? Uh because I felt like I feel like it would just make look my resume that I, you know, took a step back or I quit or I just didn't improve. Which in my opinion is not the case. It's really good that you tried something. You did it. You finished this, whatever this was, but you learned about yourself that it's not for you. And that's perfect because you have to understand what's good for you and don't do anything against your will. So, I would say even if you feel like you did something you want to change, go for it because that's how you improve. You understand yourself. You learn yourself. And I would say that's actually growth in understanding what are your needs. However, if you want to be this guy with this cup, uh there are few points that I feel like I would like to give it as my takeaway to to you and I hope this will be helpful. Um what I said before, change perspective, detach. That job going to be completely different. You're going to be not only doing artistic work, but you're going to have to change a lot of your habits. And uh what

I mean by detaching, uh sometimes it's like have you ever record yourself while you were talking and look at that? That's a different guy standing there right now, right? It's super tough, but it's very important. That shows the perspective of how you're being seen by other people. And that's why it's very important to detach sometimes from yourself and finding, okay, so what I did wrong or what I did to good and keep those things um going. Yes, of course, another another one, uh improve all the time, but I feel like it's self-explanatory. You have to you have to change and improve all the time. Uh there's no point in in our career that we say, "Okay, I'm good. I know everything now. I'm done." Because that means that that person just don't want to improve and there's always something to improve. There's no way, always. Uh what's next? Don't stop creating. What I said before, I know I know that some of my of you might feel like that's easier said than done because I don't have family, I don't have kids, I don't have wife, I just have a dog. And I have

a garden, which is easy go. Uh but I know there are people that are much uh busier than I am during the day. They have families, they have so much more on their on their shoulders and it's true. But I still feel like this is very important. It might be a day uh over the weekend, maybe like an hour per day, I don't know, but you have to have this fire in you. Without this fire, the creative part of you will die, basically. And that's not what we would like to go through, right? I guess. Um so the thing that I said before, but I really want to highlight this again. Listen to the teams. Really, they know so much more. It's like, you know, if you're a police, you want to go on the cover, just talk to those dark guys in the back alley. That's what you want to do. You really want to be with them. You understand their perspectives, needs, and and just talk to them because without that, you just don't know what they need. You might think you might know, you don't. You have to talk with them, basically. Uh delegate. Easier said than

Yes. I think it's the easiest to say, just delegate. If you have too much on your shoulders, just delegate. Yes, no. I mean, of course, yes, but no. It's really hard because I won't do this. I will be the one that would do this the best. Sure, that's the case, but you have to trust again. You have to trust your teams, delegate. If they would fail five times, sure, but the sixth time going to be the one that they do. And it it's like an investment. But it is hard, I know that. Uh prioritize and execute as well. It kind of connects, right? Because we also always have too much on our shoulders and we have to figure out what to do and how to do it. And very often it's just impossible to do it all the time and do all of our lists. So, just think about what's really important and things that can be pushed pushed away, things that can be delegated delegate them and just keep the core that you are really able to chew. And I think the one this is the most important one is to have fun. If you don't have fun, there's a big chance you're doing something wrong. Okay, uh because really it is about fun.

We have to feel comfortable, we have to have fun. It's not always going to be fun like have fun, yes, but at the end, you should feel like, okay, yes, it was fun or I just did something which was tough, but we made it. And that's what makes it fun. But at the end, we should have fun. If you like having a week a month of oh my god, what am I doing here, please rethink because it might feel like it's either not for you or you just have to change something because it would lead to the burnout and that's again not where we want to go with. Okay? Uh so that would be it. I just want to have a huge shout-out uh before. We have some time, we do. Yes, or no? Almost not. So, just big shout-out to our team uh because the reason why I'm here, why I'm talking to you, why I learned so much is because we have really amazing teams, especially of course our team in Vermont, our team uh back in in Poland. Those guys are crazy. Uh they sometimes hate me, I know that, but I hope overall they kind of accept me, at least. But no, really, that's in that's just insane

insane uh awesome team and I love those guys so much. Of course, I would also like to give a small shout-out to some of the people that I talked before like Agata Dziwulska. This is my my my personal HR partner and she just helps me a lot. I can go there and just cry on her desk and she's like, "Okay, cool. Yeah, let's talk about it." But it's help so much, really. Uh then we have Lucjan Wenzek, Jakub Knapik and Paweł Miechowski. Those are our directors that we you know, work all the time. Those guys are crazy good and they are mentors to me all the time. What I said before, I can go there and be like, "What happened here? Please help me solve this." And they're like, "Okay, let's break it down." They're like very smart. I'm like, "Ah, I'm going to kill this guy. Hold on. Wait. Maybe not. Okay, thank you." Seriously, so talk to your people that you trust, you understand, and they will help you all the time. That's where the trust comes in. Uh Michał Łaniszewski is our fellow lead uh from right now working on Polaris project. It's awesome to sit down with a coffee, vent, and hate for an hour together.

It also helps. Highly recommend. What I'm trying to say here is that it's really good to vent very very specific and um proper environment, right? You don't want to go to your team saying, "Oh my god, this is effed up." Because that's not the place, but you can vent to proper people and then find the ways to solve and things to how to improve. And Michał is this person for me. And of course, the whole uh CD Projekt Red crew because every every person in that team just puts their brick to our projects and the whole uh success for our games and um yeah, thank you so much for for those uh people that are there in my life. THANK YOU SO MUCH. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT OR LISTEN TO OUR team is talking about a little bit more, we have a lot of talks this year. Uh we have a very strong crew lineup. Uh today we have Miłosz talking about level design. He's in um

um somewhere here in GDC. You need to find him. Uh at 1:20 p.m. Highly recommend. He's awesome guy and he knows thing or two about level design, so please check it out. Of course, all the talks are insane. Uh take notes and please please, I think they're really worth it. If you want to take a picture, please do it right now. Also, yes, we are recruiting all the time. Uh of course, we have studios in Poland, but we also are branching to be in North America. So, we have a studio in Vancouver right now. And we were put our foot on in Boston. Uh so that's all I can say right now, but if you're interested in this, there's a QR code, you can scan it and you it will take you to our page. If you feel like you would like to work with us, I will be there. So, maybe someone want to talk to me. Why not? Okay, thank you for that. And we have 3 minutes for a question or two. Sure. Uh I think we can just I don't know how this actually will will will be

done. I would just take a sip, okay? Or should I go? Okay. Uh so this is a silly question, but also first of all, thank you for your uh talk. Um can you like is being an artist the only way to become an art manager? Like can you be an art Oh, okay. So, can I'm okay. Sorry, I was just like Please please finish. Yeah. So, for example, an art producer can become an art manager or art director, right? So, can you tell me a bit more about that? Okay, so from my perspective, uh I would say uh I would even say that the idea of trying to make a manager out of the best artist out there is not the best idea ever, right? Because you're really going to lose a part of that artist because that that person going to be filled with other tasks, as I said before today. art director, yes, because art director has to have a very specific say in in specific artistic um artistic uh topics. But again, I feel

like uh we have to move away and at least this is my personal perspective of this where just we're going to promote to managers and and leads and and art directors the best people. Because sometimes it might be the best solution, sure. I'm not saying it's not, but sometimes it might not be. Uh I hope that helps to answer this question a bit. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, let's talk uh personal improvement plans. Ooh. I do have a question. Um as you know, a good PIP has a defined measurement of success. Objectively, that's very easy to find. Are they following SOPs? Are they following their workflows? Subjectively, that's a whole other can of worms because you're trying to put a measures of success to art. And that can be very difficult, especially for showing higher-ups, especially if they're like in, you know, the medical industry or something who have no clue what a defined measurement of success for subjective art is. I was wondering if you had any um suggestions or or examples of

coaching somebody through um this subjective art and and building their skills and passing them. That's a complex question. Um Could you just please rephrase it a little shorter? I'm sorry, I got lost a bit. Yeah, like for for a PIP, you need to have a defined measurement of success. And in order for to pass for them to succeed, you need to show your managers or anybody that they succeeded in art. They built up their art skills and they pass this this performance review and it's very easy if they're like following step-by-step but it's just how do you gauge like how do you set a defined limit to to art basically? I'm sorry I'm I'm not sure if I'm getting so the question would be if so where's the the border between giving autonomy to the artist and we're saying like no just go there? That's the that's the question. yeah. Okay, very good question very tough question. Yeah. We actually even talked about this night about this.

I would say that you have to find a sweet spot like again you have a time let them just fail and see what becomes but if it just doesn't work you have to go and say like okay we tried but I feel like the best way would be just to do this and it doesn't mean that it's very bad from the artist point of view because maybe they have hard time maybe the task is too too hard for them whatever there's going to be different reasons for that but also it will give you an insight of the what that person does good or bad and yes you have to sometimes go and say like no we have to do it like this because there's no there's no time or there's no other ideas like and Yeah. But but there's it goes from gut feeling unless you have time specific I would have five days for trial and error go with this. Sometimes not the case so I really I know it's not the best answer but I hope it No I think it clears up something. Thank you so much.