The Story Behind Dynopunk with Andrew and Roman | 355

foreign [Music] welcome to another episode of Game Dev Unchained the number one game development podcast about game development and the lifestyle thereof I am your host Brandon fam and with me joining me not just one but two special guests Andrew and Roman how you guys doing awesome very cool right now all right uh so this is the part of the podcast where I ask our guest which is both you yourselves to introduce yourselves to the listeners viewers out there who you are where you've been where are you heading all the good background information real quick just to kind of get us started I don't think you can make yeah I can make uh so I'm a programmer and our company at smart Fantasy games programmer and story

writer so I have quiet long story how I get there uh the main thing is we met with Roman in our University times and finally found out that we both interested in games in making I was playing games a lot in school time but after that I just wanted to go in real life and forget about it but after that my question returns back to me so we created our first it was a project and I thought this is is interesting interesting thing to do in my life so we started to developing our second game after this so this is just brief story I think further we will discover more interesting things which Roma can

continue yeah I think yeah I think um I am an artist and animator of all our projects uh double and dynapong and uh I even did I even didn't think that I will be an artist because my mindset is very good for programming but uh I just had a tablet for drawing and we decided that I will draw I always say to him that he will be good is a programmer yeah but it happened that I am a programmer it's just two of us in our team so somebody just needs to speak to us yeah yeah the artist looks like is me so uh I never learned in art school so I'm just a self-learner so uh the art style of our first game was kinda poor but in Dana punk I think we

made a good job in style building and most of the players are making good reviews about uh overall retro wave style and overall pixel art style and I think we will we had nailed it very good I will say that you know uh thanks for reaching out you know I'm always in in in awe and in support of of uh any developer such as yourself like a small team that is able to have an idea but also finish through an idea which is a huge oh this is a huge case yeah huge case because you know you talk to game developers as much as I have and you just quickly learn of the the the the dreamers versus the doers right and there's a lot of geographers out there that that wish and always like dream of like making their own game but very

little actually follow through with it yeah you know when you're making an idea or plan it always seems that it will be quite easy to do this but through game development especially you learn how life is complicated yeah and it always turn into the way you don't expect yeah definitely like there's this I think a lot of it you guys seem like young guys uh I would love to kind of ask your age but before that I do see as developers get older you know they real life stuff happens you know they get girlfriends get married have kids like all these other things they'd rather spend their time doing and so the you know gets hard and harder to dedicate you know this project I have in mind uh let's say actually how old are you guys actually just kind of get that going a bit so we both 28 Roma will be 38 soon yeah both 20. what

did you get working well for the first game and then Dino Punk like what age were you guys at uh can you repeat please yeah how old were you guys when you guys started your first game in Dino Park Yeah in our first game it was like seven years ago 22 I think or 21 yes Pilots so yeah and we just decided that if we will not make it now when we finish in our University of course in further time we will have less and less time for this and for now is great time to build some kind of uh reputation or resources so we can maybe probably make it full time in the future that's impressive timing for young

people to think yeah like that this is the best time to start again development world because uh we had our study and we had some hard jobs and after that we um was making our first game and we started from two work hours per day I think uh for double and uh then double is our first project before Diana Park and uh then we was raising up these hours to just uh fluently increase uh our game development for our lives and he was right when you talk that this is hard to combine with other stuff like family like Partners like some job because we always had our jobs in this whole uh the game development way and I have a wife

and the young son so it's a pretty hard to continue to develop but I think it's always possible to motivate ourselves when the team is really well building you got you're kind of hinting at the differences I would love to kind of ask more about this you know what what differences have you guys seen that stand out from when you guys were 22 creating it into now right just the difference in seven years like what are the what are the things that you're like I think we have developed more stable and realistic vision of what game is because and first of course you try to put all of your ideas you think it's great you think sometimes you're a genius and you are the the one who

created something new and unusual and when you try to bring you to real life you notice that some ideas just won't work in some ideas were here always and some people did this thing better and all these things so the bad thing I think will learn from these years is to think realistically on our ideas because game development is always about fantasizing interesting Concepts playing and you need to put this to real life frames and other achievements of other people who did this very well better than us and teach from them not be in our bubble yeah for sure I think this is uh really

uh good experience we get and I want to add that I think the most powerful thing for me that I learned from this years is the knowledge how to motivate myself for this long way because uh we was making dynabunk for four and a half years and we didn't receive any income we didn't receive any reviews almost uh and it's it was hard times when you are just not have power to continue and you need to start to motivate yourself and this knowledge how to motivate yourself this is the best thing because it's very appliable in your everyday life well if you can share some tips actually

um like what you know it might be very personal to you guys of like oh this works for me but like when you're finding yourself in those sit you know situations like man this is I'm tired you know you know it's hard you know especially I'm third year in four you're in like what what kind of things were you guys doing to was it the discipline was it just like just doing it not thinking about it what exactly helped you guys kind of get through these tough moments of food I can say first maybe uh I think uh the main rule if if you are not the one person developer talk just talk with your uh co-workers and discuss uh the developer game because uh the more you talk about it the more you involved it and the more you motivated because uh when you are sitting alone in your room and you are don't know what to do you just need to

through uh out your room and just talk with somebody about this game because this will um this will give you some new ideas this will this will give you some new bright uh thoughts for your future when you will end this project so I think uh the best uh tip that I can uh give to share talk with people show your game uh take all criticism uh and uh share your development with someone because when you do it just by your own you will lose motivation mostly [Music] yeah yeah of course for me I think pretty same thing but uh I'm personally did a lot of live plays tests so I was a programmer and also story writer

in Dino Park so I always had a actual build of our game so I invite my friends to my house and watch watched how they played this so I think live showing of your game is the most valuable thing you can do to motivate yourself because for what you are doing games for me it's about giving emotions so you need to see how your game brings emotions to people and bad things you do just sit with this person and watch how he play your game so this is the best thing and other thing is to reach out for some cool guys for example uh in double there was interesting story I very liked game from supergiant games maybe you know this is a studio yeah I've heard of them yeah yeah so I liked uh music in these games

uh they had very good composer Darwin Corp so I'm making music by my own also so I decided why not to write him and show my soundtrack to our first project double and maybe he can share some thoughts and surprisingly I wrote to him and he agreed to give some feedback on this on the live we was we made some charging with our webcams so this is was huge inspiration for me so just thick for cool guys you can reach out and this will give you a huge amount of motivation you will think I can talk with this cool guy so maybe be at school at them maybe better in my way so that is it yeah I mean definitely being surrounded

by inspirational developers always help I mean you guys are kind of digging into this I would love to dive into this the amount of people that I've met the especially in the developers you know they've always kind of been a small team in a lot of cases you know remote right kind of working separately not really in an office together um so it's harder you know there are challenges to kind of stay connected to the community right right absolutely so were there different ways besides inviting friends over playing the games were you guys involved in local Game Dev scenes in your area where where there's social websites that you guys were constantly in there just kind of feel like you're you're part of you know just having this this part of community that you can rely on for feedback and suggestions you know motivation honestly this will this was not given

for us enough feedback for example in social activity um when we had bought some on Reddit or other stuff we have some uploads but this was not huge inspiration in this but the main thing we got from this stuff is finding cool people for example our composer from Dino Park found us by himself because we had some posts on Reddit with our visual style I think we post a trailer or something like this yes so he just wrote found us on Discord and said I like your style I wrote some tracks for you in my spare time so you can use it maybe we can make some communication and we were very grateful hysterects were just awesome feel with our style and when we have

found a publisher we just suggest them you can we can work together now we can make a payment for your awesome work so just found in finding good people in our first project double they were same situation we posted to some Twitter stuff and the girl from Germany who knows Spanish wrote to me and said hey I'm a translator in mouse in my free time and I won't do this my full job so maybe I can train on your game make a translation for free and besides of this she is very passionate interesting person so this was cool motivation too that's really cool so uh I think I have one more advice for developers who are not located in the same city or have remote teams uh

uh the game the festivals is the greatest way to show your game because you will meet different types of players and you can get uh more criticism of your game uh than just looking off one player at the one at the time so participating in these festivals is the best way to get some points issues or some criticism for your mechanics uh in a good way because in Game Day festivals uh as we noticed all players are very are very into the gaming and they will not just hate your game if it's bad so it's the best way to get some reviews in the early stages if you are not

one team in the city United what were your guys's uh favorite festivals that you guys were attending um is it mostly Europe or you guys went to North America uh uh only if we can talk about online festivals I think the steam next Festival was our the biggest Festival uh and uh for offline festivals we was only in our city game Day Festival so we uh we was participating in a small uh Festival so I think it's the best because it's the only one right and you just set up your laptop or station yes yes it's just it was a huge uh dirty Talent uh uh several rows of tables and

uh it was full of developers like us uh some people bring several monitors and uh setups we just took our laptop and uh our place was never empty so the whole festival somebody was playing also it was outdoor Festival so it was also interesting experience and just do it on the nature it was like in the park so it was a good experience I think and in terms of feedback were you just asking questions as they're playing it or do they have to write down on the survey how would you guys taking feedback we just saw reactions of players just they mimics you know they momentum we have a lot of jokes in our game so uh me is rather just noticed what lines of

characters bring some emotions to people and we tried to not distract people from playing and not to give them tips or tutorials during playing because when you launch game you can't see it with other players and say you need to press here to continue player need to understand this from your game Flow so good thing is to notice where players stopped they don't know how to do and this is not a solution uh to help them in the festival to say you should go there you should notice this and and improve this system and then when they just ended the Playbook at a small talk with them so just would you like would you don't like how is your feeling about the game and

it's cool that we often get the same reviews it's just uh might find ironical formula really good art good writings and we've got some criticism on art and uh one person was very very interesting guy yeah yeah he was his how I could say he have had uh you know who decides in mind that can say things directly right to you just have full truth and it was very interesting too because he had a lot of criticism of our game for example that he already saw he said all this stuff we made in other games for example Vision novels this is not so new uh dialogues this is not awesome like in this Collision because

me is rather I'm not so skilled I'm only learning so this was interesting too to back on the ground and to hear opposite opinion of what we heard because for me it was a signal that we need to think more to do more unique things and do search maybe someone did this before us so we will be not unique we can use their experience and build something on top of this yeah yeah I I think uh more than ever now is great for brutal honesty but like in in a way that's constructive right that's the difference with the internet you put your game out there people love to rip immediately yeah right that you love like hating on your game and so it's it's very difficult I

don't think uh yeah I think Reddit if anything gives a lot of attention to the right people but then you gotta be you know uh careful well I I guess like ignoring all the hateful you gotta look look past the hateful comments look for the good people out there who are just surprisingly yeah we didn't have a lot of hate at all maybe somewhat very small amount this was surprising for me I uh sometimes thought why we don't have a lot of hate this is strange it's it's surprisingly because it's a visual novel about dinosaurs yeah and it's pixel art it's so much points where you can hate the game but it just is this no nobody because we don't have Fame and a lot of fans so nobody can hate us you know it's a good thing it's definitely it's a good good problem to have in my opinion

because yeah I mean I've met so many developers or just creators in general in any industry and if we can really bring you down especially if you're just trying to like you know you're presenting your baby to the world and you know you don't want it's gonna be completely killed off yeah so yeah I work with an artist yeah I worked with an artist uh it's a girl who was uh drawing some arts for a game and she's very sensitive for hate speech in the comments so uh I think one uh haters comment can paralyze her for a month of work so it's uh it's very sensitive art persons you can yeah you know they call creatives it's all like that successful people uh say if you have haters you have fats yes I I think we need to take more haters yeah I think I think a product

that is divisive having both extremities of hateful comments and then like very well like comments is always I think is the best type of product uh just having that type of discussion it's like hate it or love it yeah you know yeah it's better because I think art itself it need to be a little bit controversy to develop New Horizons for people to view A New Perspective so if you don't have a lot hey this maybe tells that something that you do not so new yeah not innovative so uh the working situation right so obviously back at the University I'm assuming you guys were in the same dorm or at least near each other working your asses off for the first game fast forward seven years later

I'm assuming you guys are living separately together I mean I don't know what the situation is like things are obviously different right working on a game can you kind of explain the differences just you know how are you guys communicating day to day versus how it was back then is it easier is it harder what kind of adjustments you guys are making now like is happening with the kid and being married and everything mm-hmm I think the most time of the development we was we were in the same city but for a year or half of the year we was we were in different cities and this time was very hard to communicate because uh when we uh having these meetups we can discuss and we can create more ideas with the personal meetings um so right now yeah we are living in the same city again and it's more

helpful to communicate because we can meet every two weeks every three weeks uh just to discuss some ideas just to resolve some Game Dev problems and this is very handy to uh make these meetings more often because when you are a separate team just this internet talks is not the same like personal meetings right I would like to ask you this because we're living in a time at least in the states right there's there's because of the pandemic a lot of people are working from home but now we're we're switching basically back to the office a lot of people are going back to the office and a lot of the reasons you guys are talking about uh and there are still a lot of resistance on on this side uh saying that remote works it's fine nothing's wrong with it but it's always interesting to kind of Hear The Originators you know because I I do uh

at least for the game industry Indie creators like yourself your team are the original remote workers you know a lot of these teams smaller teams are in different countries around different cities uh because you're just trying to get the right people but they don't always live next to each other and now that you guys have experienced kind of both things if you have uh let me propose this like if you guys had a choice where you know the wife is was fine the kids are fine or your own personal situation uh didn't matter as much if you guys had a choice to be in an office together to work on Dino Punk or the next game would you guys choose that 100 or would it be more hybrid or would it be just the same as now like this is fine I think for me it's well hybrid things so uh maybe meeting two days a week in

office so we can discuss some things life and we'll be on the same track but all other three days we can work remotely something like this I can say that uh me personally is a remote worker from my heart because all my life I remote a remote worker and I agree that two times per week it's a good amount of meetings to stay in the line of development so uh if we can uh meet in some co-workers or some rent office it will be just perfect I think because uh a special place um with this uh soul of game development will bring the needed um Vibe of game development I think I think yeah I I feel

I feel the same sentiment as creative people we kind of feed off each other and being next to each other there's something magical that happens with creatives to kind of brainstorm yes I agree yeah and uh sometimes it it's the the right motivations to kind of kick back because oh yeah this is why we fell in love with this idea you know it's just smiling we're laughing a lot of this Zoom call what I found and and reading is that we're not used to just you know seeing just this all right because you're you're looking oh yeah in person you look at the body language your hands your feet you know I'm just looking at the face the whole time and plus you have some delay with connection this is yeah not too good too for communication so in live communication you can maybe interrupt each other in a good way so the communication yeah it's more like and in light in this in our interview we need to wait calm

down ourselves a bit wait for response and this is fine but cuts off a bit of life this yes yeah and in real meetings you can just uh walk uh from one corner to other corner just to shake your mind yeah you can if you disagree with your comments you can just make five yeah there is like a I'm not locked in my chair to talk with you and I can walk around there is something to that for sure um so let's talk about dynapunk right what was the original yeah sure inspiration behind this game you guys I'm us you finished double you put it out there how long in between did you guys finally get started on that a month nah I remember it was almost through recently almost immediate we just take a small breath and so that we

want to continue this this interesting Journey so the origin of this idea was very interesting and it sounds very funny from this perspective now because why we chose to make some kind of regional novel with gameplay style because we thought this will be quite easy thing to do not a lot of gameplay uh original novel stuff is not so hard to develop okay we can try it so here we are after four years of developing we finally releasing this yeah so I think uh the funny story is that we made a research and we found that uh there were three tags that are very popular in these days the dinosaurs uh bartending and cyberpunk and we simulation simulation yeah yeah

and we um have thought how to combine this in one game and so here we have a dino bug where you have a repair shop simulator dinosaurs and cyberpunk okay we've done it do people need it I don't know maybe we'll see for now it's not so clear yeah you're you're uh it speaks to you guys experience in maturity it feels like right um the marketing research aspect of it uh you know looking for you know what's what's happening and and not just purely just trying to build whatever you guys feel like right it's like let's keep in mind we're trying to sell this as a product uh yeah where did you guys did you guys always have that or was it just you know just by developing the first game you guys were thinking about how to go about this differently uh where did that come from

I assume that ah this have come after our first project because maybe Roman can correct me but as for me I see we put a lot of our preference and heart in our first project and we saw that it not gain much attention not gain much sales and we became to think why we put so much efforts and this was a lot of research after this because when you do a lot of efforts and it will not make so much that back as you expect you think there's something really is missing so this is a huge maybe negative experience but I would not say that it was negative it just was impactful

so after this we have some mind shift and after finishing Dino Park we have also second my chief because we noticed that you need to develop more pop you know gender popular because you can't you need to know that most of the people play a game not for all the unique stuff they just saw some similar stuff they play sometime and so they think okay this is something usual to me I don't want to push myself out to learn new thing I just want to relax so you need to notice some popular things and after that only after that you can add something unique on top of that but

if you just not so experienced in the developer this is a very rare situation that you make something unique that's only on your mind and it will blow up people will be just scared of your uniqueness they will not want to learn something totally new because games is just Hobby spare time and not hard work for players yeah yeah yeah yeah I think as Andrew said that uh this was a step-by-step process because before development of double we hadn't any uh knowledge about marketing about and revising stuff and we just uh did it and Bullet Bill on Steam so it was just our first experience then we started to learn our mistakes and then we started to analyze what uh

what may be possibly popular for a player as a game so we thought visual novel is kinda good start for us and we did it now when dynapark is finished we have much more experience and we are better no uh where to look what to look at and how to how to I just you know why I'm laughing this is very stupid I heard Roman said we started to analyze and I separated this word to analyze so yeah but sorry oh my god um where we stopped uh and uh um yeah and we I think we learned how to do interesting game for both of us yeah so

just to have a passion to make it and how to make this game more usual um to the player so it's just like uh we make a usual roguelike game but with our unique ideas in it so when the player look looks at our screenshots is finding a usual Rogue flight game that he likes he downloaded and wow it has UniQue Ideas I like it there's definitely something to that for sure I think I read something recently that was um uh that leans towards to what you guys are saying where people connect with things they're familiar with like 80 percent of the game or whatever and then they are more open to kind of discover new things right new mechanics that you guys are introducing uh it's just how people are people just usually are not uh tend not to want to try new things

right they kind of get baited into familiar things and then explore uh the the newer things for sure yeah you know there was interesting moment I noticed in my life I was driving with man of my mates after I played volleyball and he was tired and he was listening to his music in the car uh just random stations you know from internet and uh radio station turned on for him new music and he said oh I'm so tired now for releasing something new I just want listen something similar and I thought this is very common situation for most of people with games most of people just tired from work on other live stuff so they need something usual kind of it's like if you're clearing per person shooters and you just want to something new you are searching for first person

shooters but with some new mechanics exactly yeah I think um another thing that you guys were speaking to you know learning from the mistakes building off of that getting better right [Music] the one of the things that I I see often with any developers is that they they they they stop too early right they they just like afternoon game one hit it's like oh we tried everything it's time to like just we just don't have it but I I've seen many many times the one that are doing their second game third game fourth game right they're they're they're the successful ones because they are building off of you know they're building up their fan base to building off of their uh the Lessons Learned they're getting better and they're getting faster right and then they're putting in more quality uh and it's unfortunate that a lot of potential you know get wasted because they just like well we only do one game and if it doesn't work it doesn't work it's like

it's like winning the lottery right it's like you know yeah it's almost like a rule of life I think because Eve maybe game development or other stuff will be so easy it will be too over crowded and this is this can cannot be happening just so I think this limitation in all life areas you need to push you so hard to stand out from you know middle level otherwise everyone will be doing awesome stuff yeah yeah I think uh releasing your first game if you are not experienced it uh guy it's like uh it's like a random result uh you can't rely on it because uh when you do a game for a full release on Steam just for the

first time you can't think that you will be popular for sure you will be will have millions of sales now it's just not how it works uh huge percent will be on the side that you will not be noticed at all it's just for experience it's just to understand that you are able to make a game from scratch to finish and push it to this team get some reviews and you finish this way you are able to do it so just take your power and make it again but better bigger with their own experience that you've get if you are just relying on your one game I will try it if it's not um go off the development it's not a serious thing there is a there was analytics I read it said that uh the most popular in the uh

developers um they become popular after they served project yeah it's just a statistics it's just the dry statistics that uh the most popular in the developers became popular after third project so if you're doing just one game so it's like throw a stone to the wall and have a dream that you will be a millionaire because of that it's just it's just nonsense all right it definitely um like like you said if it was easy everybody would be successful and and Rich sure like in some push into the limits yeah so obviously you know the difference of of shipping the first game in second game uh you guys are feeling it right now uh you guys are more like we've been through this before a little bit more experienced

um uh I mean in terms of publishing you know with steam always the place you guys were gonna put it or do you guys look at other options you know are there other options nowadays that are coming up where you guys say that's interesting that our alternatives to steam where you guys considered uh self-publishing on those platforms instead no uh self-publishing is a bit hard when you don't have a lot of resources in your hands because you need localization for different languages this is very it takes a lot of money you need QA uh units some other stuff that takes money so I think self-publishing can be only when you're pretty sure that you made very successful game or when you have some resources so for now self-publishing was not an option for us

but as for us platforms interesting women can continue so so yeah I think what I can say about dynapong and other platforms steam is the biggest platform for the game selling and of course we was planning to releasing it so on the other hand we have epic game store and maybe go gog how it does yeah so um we was not we were not released on these platforms yet but we are playing so and of course but it will not make big sales as we know these epic games it's just some kind of small headings right but as we learned from our publisher uh what can give you a huge push of sales is the port in your game on mobile platforms if your game is suit fit on it so we have a visual novel

and we played Dino Punk on handheld with sensor screen so it plays a very good uh you can cut shapes by your finger you can just tap to skip dialogues and it's very common to play on Steam deck we tried it so if we will release it on switch it can be very good for our sales but we just need to make our publisher support it yeah because to assure that bubble publisher that he will get some additional money from sales on switch because for publisher it's all about business and learning of course uh where were you guys in development before you connected with your publisher on dynapum was it a year in were you guys constantly oh Publishers or did it happen just at the show I mean what was that story about

it was very long story so this was uh stuff I I made it um think Ahmed is just first find a lot of Publishers that can possibly take us on board for example that have same project as uh uh have some quality and all the other side and write down email to them and iterate quality of this mail because our first my first meals was just picture and our brief explanation of Diana park it was not working well and we started to research how to make it better I found some tips watch some videos we found some templation and now and after

that we have made uh just just purple PowerPoint think with key features with beautiful art and all this stuff so we need to impress publisher with images because when some person opens your mail he does want to read a lot of text how awesome is the game you need to immediately be like wow this is interesting and the best way to do this is just visual things so it was about an ear Maybe maybe yeah it's about ear I constantly send in um this males and or think eight months we didn't receive any response they smells were just send it and never answered so this was very motivational but the thing in this stuff I think is to take a break so when I

I understand that I just started all these things it will not get anything I just forgot about it maybe in a week and after some rest I feel okay I can do this again I can try it again and this is very helpful stuff in all things things of life you just rest and after that think okay I'll try again okay I'll try again and uh after an year we had some conversations with nice publishers and get some reaction because we constantly learn from our mistakes and improve our pitch So after talking with several Publishers we choose one this was a celebration yeah yeah it has a long way because this was a long way because uh we had a several Publishers at the same time and

we was needed to um to look uh for benefits from what's better yeah what can be better for us and uh one publisher can can give this one people publisher can give that and it was a tough choice to do but we made it and now we have a publisher who made tests for us keyway localization and uh so it was a tough way but the result is uh better than we had with the double yeah I mean that's fantastic uh so it was just zero answers for eight months to a year and then suddenly you had multiple um yeah was there something specific that you guys did differently to kind of make that jump I can say I can say that we made a PowerPoint

presentation oh so before it was just email and yes yes and with memes we put a lot of memes about our game uh I made in After Effects some unique memes about our dynapon game and common usual means that you can see in at this time so it was like it was good I think uh this meme with with Chinese guy it's like it's a pen it's an apple apple pen and we made it's a dino it's a punk it's a dino palm and animation preview that was a that was a stupid good joke yeah you need to know that uh always your mess message will open person and you need to get to the emotions of this person so he will bring your game to other uh staff of the company so it's all about personal interaction with the

people this person you don't even see but hopefully you can have some impact emotional on this person to care about your product and yeah sure clip is better than just a bunch of accounts yeah I can say that you should not do offsell emails when you're indeed yes maybe when you be a company but when you need you should be as much personal as you can right and uh I can serve I can be sure that um most of our contacts starts the dialogue with the phrase I love dinosaurs and uh I think the most uh thoughts with developers uh were because of that reason because the person who read our emails just love dinosaurs and just go to CEO and and say this game is good it's about dinosaurs let's publish it hahaha it definitely helps it's it's a weird

yeah I mean you put it out there you know there are people that connected more than others and the The Unbelievable ability for you guys to keep trying and I think the adjustment was what made it work finally but that only can happen through experience of failing and then taking a second yeah it's not working take a rest always take a rest when you're tired just not put yourself on the wall take rest and only after that try again yeah yeah and I think that's a lot of stuff that people tend to do where they're just constantly there's this weird um misunderstanding of like you know just keep trying keep trying it's gonna happen and the problem is like people keep trying the same thing and they don't adjust right yeah I think a lot of people don't understand that part so you keep trying but you gotta sit back and analyze the data and then keep trying don't keep doing the same thing over and

over and expecting a different result which is yeah yeah several days ago we had a thought that um the better result you get when you think and do at the same time you can just do and you do the same over and over again and you can think and you just do nothing but when you think and do you can get a really good result definitely uh so deep philosophy think about it this is fantastic I I feel like the the industry are driven by innovators by smaller teams like yourselves all the big games nowadays like war zone or uh whatever kind of take the the concept from Small Engine developers you know pubg came from

uh a mod right so and then obviously spawn fortnite and Warzone and all these Battle Royale games you can say that to almost every big game that's out there right now they kind of borrow from innovators and a lot of it's from smaller teams going through these trials of hard work and figuring out something unique and then putting it out there and then you know when it becomes successful the big big guy steal it but yeah you need to remember the one who that thing uh receive ten dollars the one who can sell things receives hundred dollars yes yes yeah well uh I wanna thank you uh we have hit the hour mark hopefully it was painless um it's very pleasurable yeah and this is the part where I actually shut up and hand the mic over to you guys so you can

talk directly to the listeners and viewers out there about whatever you want to talk about you know the game uh you guys bring attention to a particular topic you know this is the mic is yours for you guys to kind of talk directly to the people out there sure it's cool I think uh we can make some good advices for startup developers just uh simple tips you can start and I will go yeah I think I can recap myself because uh as we said earlier uh it's not a common theme to become popular from your first game because you saw that some undertale game was uh popular that uh pubg was popular mostly uh as a game developer you will not become uh this kind of developers so you just need to be prepared to make um game development as your everyday hobby for the first time and then you

have a chance to make this um as your everyday job with a good profit with a chance to develop a star study and require some Freelancers but for now and for several future years if you don't have a good bad budget if you don't have a good team if you don't sco of Ubisoft company you just need to go through this experience and to be prepared that this experience will be hard sometimes and you need somebody to talk about that so I think open mind and uh ready for the hard Parts is uh the best key for the good future of your game development life yeah you said pretty much stuff I want to say but maybe I can save it from the

different angle where you as a Creator always find yourself in a bubble you can think that your game is awesome or maybe you can start with some ideas it will not work so I think all the creators tend to do this kind of mistakes so you always need to search for feedback from other people and always want to improve yourself and your game no it it's good to make it some kind of Lifestyle constant of improving to enjoy this it shouldn't be think like oh God my game is so bad I had some mistakes I don't know what to do you need to accept this and get enjoy from this you show someone your game they said this stuff is not understandable this is

messed up and you should say wow this is great I can improve and get enjoyment of this because you make better game you may find yourself better specialist maybe even a better person in some kind of way so always changing in a better way and always try to look at what you do from other people's perspective I think that's oh that's a good point and uh one more thing I think I can say that um it's a very helpful thing to love to solve problems in your life In Your Game Dev in your study because when you are passionate of solving your problems you are not afraid of it and when you showcase your game and a lot of people say is that your art is bad there is there is no proportion there is no

composition in it so you are taking it as a problem and if you are ready to solve it you are ready to sort you will not oh you will not get mad at it you will not stuck in yourself you just know this is problem I know that I can solve a problem any problem and I love it because after solving it the game will be better I will be better and I'll get experience that will help me to build better games and maybe become better person in general so don't afraid to make mistakes learn and that's cool you will be better person I think I hope and have fun of course game development is a hard time but have fun yes have fun I think that that uh I find myself uh uh I'm a little older than you guys

but like I found myself throughout my career I'm trying to get back to basically my college uh self you know why I got into games basically uh because developer by yourself too no so I'm going back to that so I I run a studio now but like I spent my years being like in AAA basically you know because that's you know that was ooh you know back then right but I I kind of lost my way because in college I've always just wanted to create my own game right I mean that's why we go into games it's like I don't I want we didn't go in the games like I want to create games for other uh from from other people's idea I want to create my own ideas into games right but I spent a good amount of my years helping other people make their games and then I'm finally going back to my College self where I'm like oh yeah I kind of want to make my own game it's never lit you know it's never lit that's when it started you can you can bid it

at any time and it's good that it's it's very good that you are feeling as an artist after this year years oh yeah and yeah it's finding myself I think yeah in the way you can uh you will get enjoyment if you will get to this just doing it it will that's why it's never too late because it's just like process you can be maybe 40 years old but if you enjoyed this best it doesn't matter how old are you right you know I I really motivated when I see artists uh who are really old it's like 70 years 80 years and they are just continued to make arts because they just love and I don't know I feel like they feel themselves Young when they do it do it because it's like you leave doing what you want and this is the best

life you can get yeah and I think that's I'm beginning to feel like that's the soul of a artist or a creative is that you're trying to reconnect to the kid version of yourself it's a good idea yes yeah yeah uh well thank you guys for for coming on super inspirational um obviously you know the game is out right for those who uh are looking to find it right uh go into the link Pages uh and then find these guys and support them right uh I'm looking forward to your next game all right sure and maybe after that uh uh but thank you guys for coming on it was a pleasure talking to you thank you too and good luck with your projects and all this stuff you can do it I believe I believe in you yes all right well thank you guys uh see you guys all next week

hello everybody Brandon here I want to talk to you today about something very special you've been on this wild ride together haven't we from my early days as a senior employee feeling a bit lost all the way to Leading multiple Studios transitioning to smaller Indie teams into the mobile industry and now running my own game studio for the last six years throughout this time you've been here listening and learning along with me sharing this never-ending journey of Discovery this year I'm kind of on this quest of meeting serial Studio Founders discussing Acquisitions or exploring what it takes to grow Studio to over 100 Developers I've always tried to find an exciting topic to delve into and every year is a little different the focus is a little different because that's where I am in my career currently and I want to be able to share what I'm learning with you guys so I've always been to dedicate to asking the tough questions bringing you insightful answers from industry leaders and experts and now I want to share with you how I'm applying these answers to my own Journey this is why I'm excited to announce that for just 1.99 per month

you can now subscribe to our exclusive content series these bonus episodes will give you a deeper look into my personal experiences and how I'm putting into practice what our esteemed guests are preaching it's more of a personal side of the journey that I hope will show you that we're all in this together and we're all continuously learning whether you're a game developer Studio founder or just a passionate gamer there's something in it for everyone by subscribing not only will you gain access to this exclusive content but you also be supporting the ongoing production of the regular programming it helps keeps the lights on and ensures that I can continue bringing you top quality content and insight into the world of game development the links to the Subscribe are in the description your support means the world to me and helps me keep doing what I love sharing this journey with you so show some love hit that subscribe button and let's continue this adventure together that he offer you continued support and as always stay tuned for more exciting

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