Staying Strong in the Game with Jordan Smith | 358

[Music] what's up everybody welcome to another episode of Game Dev unchain the number one game develop the podcast about game development and the life thereof I am your host Brandon fam and with me a special guest a dear old friend Jordan Smith what's up dude what's up man how you doing very good man it's it's been a while but before we get into the uh you know catching up I would love for you this is a point of podcast where our guest which is yourself intr yourself to the listeners out there just a little recap where you've been where you are where you heading just to uh get to know you a little better yeah um well I'm been in the industry for over 20 years uh I've been initially I just started off as a game designer uh but eventually moved on

to level design I felt like at the time it was a lot of game designers so and I think a lot of game designers back in the early 2000s wore a lot of hats right so there was a there there were systems I remember working at pandemic I was working on systems and I was also working on weapons and I was working on maps so I just kind of branched off into uh map design something that I was very comfortable with I started off in level design and 1998 with Half-Life uh Counter Strike I've been modding that and I got a job as a level designer so I continued on with that um now uh I'm unemployed unfortunately uh just like everybody you know like the unfortunate um it's it's it's kind of hard the industry is is in flux I feel like this is a different um feels different from 2008 2009 for sure uh in 2009 I remember

I was at pandemic uh there was over 200 of Us coming into work and uh all of a sudden we see these security officers uh on the 19 18 and 19th floor I remember my friend Jason sh we were he was just ch I guess it kind of like gave him PTSD because he's like [ __ ] this you know I'm gonna start my own um and I remember him telling me how he felt when he got off the elevator and he saw all these security guards and I just like holy crap you remember that and I was just like for me I just remember saying bye to people and packing my my my stuff in a box and then uh just moving on but this one is a little bit different um only because I feel it's a bit unfair yeah right um I remember seeing a sign it says $180 billion profit and there's massive layoffs in the industry

right like 19,000 people like how does that happen yeah so I've been doing a lot of thinking about that but we can go on that later um you know so but yeah that's about me uh I'm a a level designer I uh my last position was a senior level designer of PCF I got laid off from there and I was a I was a CA uh doing contract work and um I was a lead there but now uh I'm just keeping myself busy I think that's the best thing to do um to be honest with you like uh December was really bad I'm shaking because like it was uh it was Christmas and I had just purchased my kids like all their presents and I'm like oh my God and I because they went I went through a Santa's list and I got them what they like the big ones you know and I was just like oh no you know I don't know what to do and so um but

the first first night I remember I couldn't sleep and so for those out there I know that you're not alone man like um I had to go through a really deep like you got to find your spirituality like for me I'm I'm Catholic so I I pray um I do a lot of rosary and the rosary got me through it but I'm letting you guys know right now it's it is painful especially if you have a family you have kids you have a wife you have you have a house um in December right that was I remember wake uh I couldn't sleep for two hours uh I I I I kept rolling out of bed and finally my wife like comforted me and she's like are you all right and that's when I broke down and but I just want to let people know out there man like it is tough um but hang in there just keep yourself busy

um find your Niche that's what I'm doing right now and I'll I'll show you guys what I've been doing it's kind of cool I'm pretty proud of it um and I've been staying for 13 hours a night a day just to get this thing going and I'm pretty proud of it and I'm you know just focusing on something else and not really soak up on you know is it me is it and it's not I know it's not me I know I do [ __ ] dope ass work yeah I sometimes look at my work I'm like [ __ ] I did that [ __ ] I impress myself right so um but yeah man that's what I want to let you guys know yeah well I mean I it's definitely the the the major topic um you know we're we're still early in 2025 and um you know I have a very particular Focus talking to really real people on the ground floor Going Back to Basics to kind of help others out there

navigate through this very confusing time like you said you know 2008 game indistry is used to like layoffs right yeah like 2008 is probably the big one that I mentioned over and over again where like it's just felt like every Studio was closing at that time yeah this one is the first where I've seen yes Studios closing but like super seniors like yourself director level people creative director just like coming in and just finding it out like everyone else usually going through you know a few of these layoffs you come in yeah you get your security and it feels like you mentioned before dehumanizing is like one day the day before you were like all cool and now you're like criminal walk through like Luigi like that guy who killed that CEO you know right like oh my God I know

right we walked out you know into the helipad I was like what the [ __ ] dude that was some deep [ __ ] dude yeah but like that what's that movie with Denzel Washington Denzel was it's so Hollywood how they did dud it's so Hollywood and it I I kind of felt like Uno reverse on what they were trying to do where they're like hey we got that guy but everyone was like man look at how [ __ ] handsome this guy [ __ ] dude baller dude yeah no I mean he's got the balls you know and reading up on the story of his family and his mom I was like [ __ ] yeah dude I do the same [ __ ] you know like if I love my mom right and I think everybody loves their mom and if your mom raises you right and she she's comforted you and she's always going to say stick up for yourself dude my mom is going to go yeah [ __ ] them you know what I mean like I I think I think every like 90% of the people feel the same way I have a friend in Texas he's he's dope as

[ __ ] his name is Leo and uh he's he's a gun owner Texan you know what I mean and he just sent me that when he sent it to me he was like [ __ ] yeah man I was like [ __ ] yeah bro you know because like I think it it the industry needs to wake up a little bit and there's a lot of rap artists you know talking about this stuff and and H what was I I remember uh there was a segment on dude I for was it Kendrick Lamar or something anyways it was just talking about like how how U the rich just keeps getting richer and the poor keeps getting poorer and and but I I don't blame anybody I just blame the trends I think the trend is what's killing our industry it's kind of like the movie industry right like like I remember in the 90s growing up I was watching so many great movies man Silence of the lamps right uh fu

Dances with Wolves right Titanic like the the great like the scorsis the Ridley Scots you know they were all I mean hands down some of the best times but then as the you know the movie industry changed right like it became this like all costume Hollywood you know like hero [ __ ] and yeah and it it broke the industry right let's let's face it it broke the industry and that's what's what's what what we're running into I I feel like that's what our industry is running into like we're going into this like we went we're going through this phase where that's why I read somewhere that like gamers are playing games that have been built like 200 17 there are more people playing those games than they are playing the new ones which makes sense like yes and that's and people don't want to break that and so that's what the the trend was for the Hollywood as well right people wanted Iron Man 5 you know and

Guardians of the Galaxy like all of that stuff was just like people wanted it and then it broke our industry uh the same way as in the movie in in Hollywood yeah I mean going off that point I I do see like a lot of well we're seeing a lot of success with Resident Evil remakes like a lot of these like old school solid game design with updated Graphics yeah right so a lot of that from the business side is what I'm seeing is like this is how they're kind of like leveraging risk that we are starting to well we've been having a problem with AAA right just like new ideas never been trying a new team from the ground up five year plus of development let's see how it goes you know it's like of course most of those do terrible and and so right now there's a lot of like what I'm seeing this time you know with these layoffs with these this pause I feel like a lot of this is pausing is some reconsideration of how

to like develop games that have a higher uh uh probability of success yeah because how they were doing for and unfortunately too you know the co thing definitely rolled into it it was just I know you had friends like during the co was like yo I'm I'm swinging two jobs at the same time I was like dude I was like they don't know yeah two Zoom calls two laptops I was like I do you man like and they were doing it for like a year doing just double salary and uh they were getting paid at a premium because Talent at that point was like these companies couldn't get enough of it and it was super competitive uh uh like it's just in terms of salary and like I want to live on a farm uh but pay me San Francisco prices I was like [ __ ] but even then I was like yo this is not going to be forever this is going to swing control yeah out of control very hard the other way and I keep repeating

uh this but it's worth repeating I didn't think it would swing this hard like this long this is like extreme swing right and I'm hoping that it's going to balance out and correct itself soon because yeah I'm where we have a lot of friends our Network it's it's it's start it's hitting the point where it's hurting you know it's not one of those like wait and see it's like yo people are like considering leaving the industry yeah yeah and it's uh it's unfortunate because I I feel like um the aftermath of something like that is we lose a lot of experience and like anything any project you need experience to kind of build from creating the M same mistakes right you want to make big games as fast as possible you need to experience people who's been doing it for a while otherwise everyone's guessing again and bad formula yeah I I

think you're right I mean that is uh that's happening for sure I'm not going to say any names I'm not going to say any pro the project but when you lose that many people talented people and then you get I'm not I'm not judging people's abilities or anything like that but you know when when seniors climb to the leadership role or when Juniors climb to the leadership role to take on a big project and then you're you're and you're on the other side and you're like what what's happening here um you you it's crazy because like you know when people have a lot of money um and there's the budget the finance you know your bank account is huge you don't worry about it so you're not looking down and and seeing what's what's happening in these places you should because when you lose that many

Talent um it'll affect your game right and that's why I always see it it's funny when you always see franchises kind of like I Call of Duty is different I'd say um but like when you see Talent leave uh franchises you see you see it go down yeah right it gets watered down it gets watered down and I remember Call of Duty Modern Warfare Infinity war was just like the epitome of of game design and even down to the UI and all that stuff now you look at Call of Duty I'm like what am I looking at yeah right and it both single and multiplayer was groundbreaking you know in its own right it was doing stuff yes super polished but it was introducing new things um and now it's it's different it's kind of like a uh a ghost of itself yep in a way

yeah yeah and I think uh you know we can go into this but like I think the most important thing right now is like I said it's Trends right um and if you don't have a franchise you're as a studio or someone stud a studio bracking you up with a franchise project you're kind of screwed because you know those companies like EA with with with uh uh Apex Legends right that's raking in money uh you got Call of Duty that's raking money right for for Activision Microsoft um so they can stay afloat but everyone else you know you're finding Angel money um and that's something that I wanted to get into back in in the summertime but I found out that I'm not a liar you got you gotta I am not a producer cuz I had a good friend uh he's really awesome he's a programmer and he's like let me see your stuff man

so I showed it to him he's like this is this is great man U you even got a prototype I did it all in unreal yeah um and then he's like all right so what do you want to do and I was just like let's let's get this thing cracking yeah then he introduced me to some people a person and I was just like yo I can't lie I'm not a liar is like we have to we've got to find a producer that lies that that that knows how to talk lingo the language and I just can't do it um yeah because you know I think that's another thing too our industry is in this like you know lie mode to get money right like I know how the tools work okay I I worked so like yeah there's a guy at PCF that's really badass I I'll give a shout out to him his name is BR he's [ __ ] dope as [ __ ] that guy's an awesome uh Direct technical uh guy I

mean but you have to be you have to make up some [ __ ] to really get that money which is AI right and I know how AI works you know what I mean and like and I know some of these people like yeah you know you know our game is going to be the next AI thing or the next crypto thing you know so give us 20 20 million 30 million 40 million we the next thing but these guys man they don't do their research you know enough so the people with money they don't do enough research to say Hey you know maybe this is full of [ __ ] you know but they're going to give them money anyways and I I've seen that um and you see you see people you see M you see Studios close down because of that man and you got to be real you know you got to know you got to be real stop tasing Trends you know we're going to be the next extraction we're going to be the next [ __ ]

valerant yeah dude that's you know what I mean like what there's like what two games that came out that's like trying to mimic valerent and they couldn't even get like more than 10,000 people to play their game I I worked at highres and we had like a million people playing our game and we still struggling so I when we reached uh real Royale man we were like I thought I was going to get my next Lambo next next Lambo I was going to get a Lambo another Lambo right I thought I was G to get my Lambo or Ferrari or whatever yeah and uh no man that didn't happen uh our industry is you know it it there's just so many variables to think of that can really affect our industry and um we can talk so much Brandon I swear to God like one hour bro is not enough well we can go as long as we need I would say the

one thing I want to kind of go back to because I I do think that that that's a big part that's feeding into kind of like destabilizing our industry right now is the the the the money coming in right yeah there is like this weird thing I always go back to like uh uh Godfather uh Gabe Noel right I still think he's the OG I still think he's the wisest the most consistent look at him dude he's doing great keeping his Studio small you know they print money they're not selling out right they're like they're doing fine but like he is most notable for quoting for this quote saying that hey I I'm never going to invest in games because you know you want to throw your money away but that's the attitude of those who are very good in the industry make it to the top get all that money they peace out they like what do you call it cash out in the casino because you know the industry is

so uh filled with like variables that unfortunately these guys that's the yeah and that's the only thing I wish Gabe would reconsider because we need those guys to kind of guide our industry into a better Direction because meanwhile this is what we have and this exactly what you're seeing and I see it over and over again we have these people where it feels like they're almost laundering money right because is such a great place dude right right Brandon [ __ ] hit the nail dude like because it's like it's art right art is just great for putting money away and then waited for the cook and then somehow like this dotted picture is worth hundreds of millions so like we see these phases with nfts cryptos and all these [ __ ] and then AI it's like always these buzzword yeah they have no interest in like what makes a good game good game yeah yeah and so like these

uh unfortunately these people who have like a little knowledge on the game developer side producers right take advantage of that and they just play the game so that they enrich themselves and really don't care you know succeed or not uh you know of delivering a product right because the money the the the the the thing about game the business of games I've learned is the guarantee with money is before shipping right yeah right and and you just like uh just queue up uh what's Star Citizen as a prime example of that right where they're never launching and they're the most successful crowdfunding game ever and the the failure of that game would be basically launching it because the money will stop and uh it's unfortunate because now like talented developers who really want to like hey you know give me a mill I I'll give you back too he like

no we don't want to we want 30 we want 100 he like hold on you know it's like that's just unmanageable right I don't want to spend four years lying to you like ex they don't want yeah they don't want a 100% return which is great but like no we want 5,000 yeah that that no no you're right and and here's the here's a crazy part that I read in a book uh some it was an invest uh how do like talk to investors Etc the book says this it's like I don't [ __ ] care right if we fail okay as long as one of them hits a [ __ ] home run right and you know that to me that's insane like that is bananas right like they're running it like it's a [ __ ] baseball franchise right so let's let's let's get all the [ __ ] John Carlos stands let's get all the mookie bets the the Freemans and and put

them all stacked in one team and hopefully we could win a World Series right yeah yeah yeah but like that's you're you know when you do that you're you're what about the people that are you're putting in money for you and saying you know hey we might hit a home run right like to me I I don't I don't I'll never understand that that the whole investment side of things and I'll never understand why um people would want to put uh money in into an ENT entertainment industry that is that's just got so many variables like I always tell my kids hey don't get in entertainment industry yeah I've seen that a lot too and and uh I rais my kids now like that and I said look listen I go when you uh entertainment works both ways right you have to have people paying in to get entertained but sometimes they don't want to go to the theaters to get entertained right they'd rather sit at

home and get entertained by Netflix or I don't know whatever hobby right so you know I I tell them like get in a government job or something like just just just not into that or even healthare yeah something more stable but um I I I'll I'll never understand that about uh you know why people would you know shell out 5060 million to possibly hit a home run with that studio but then I the same time I would look at that talent pool and say what do they what did they work on you know what I mean like yeah that that one is huge too because like you know you'll have you'll have people that got money right and but then the only the way they got their money was because or investment money was because they were in successful franchises right right and then they left that franchise to create their own okay that's how it usually works that's how the story is in the industry right

but then you got to remember like the indust it's a teamw work it's not just one guy just individuals it's just yeah so when when these big money people big hedge funds they're looking at these people like oh yeah so and so came from a project but bro he that dude was working with two 300 people to create a great project it's not just one dude you know so and I see that so many times and so much money have been lost uh it's unfortunate and I'm not blaming anybody you know on their skill set or anything like that but you know we we're we're chasing right something that I don't want to get into but uh something that I read in in a spiritual book but we're always chasing and that is a that is a rabbit hole that you will likely uh fail to you know so anyways yeah well let me comment on that like because I I do think that's another factor of what's going on I've been

complaining about this for the longest time because we we've seen it firsthand I I see it in the headlines all the time like it's always like that that picture of that dude is like yeah I worked on this game and now I got $0000 million to create five Studios right but like it is you know I understand from the Investor's side it's like all right what is quantifiable how can I make a bet if not like the guy with a resume like what is it exactly and yeah it is a a I I don't blame him and I I understand and somewhat agree that yeah a guy who is somewhat a part of a bigger franchise at a director level is important but uh I think there's enough fails at this point to say like oh this it doesn't play a big percentage on guaranteeing you know this person uh with a falling success if anything I would say what people forget is like yeah this guy was a lead on so and so

but creating a studio and being co-founder he ain't a lead anymore right he's running different responsibility and most of these guys or gals this is the first time doing that and so they're back to Noob level and they're guess what [ __ ] up because the main you fail four or five times you fail like if you just take our computer away right what you end up with is a bunch of nerds with carpal tunnel like we are not never went to business school and like a lot of these managers never even went to management course like we are so unqualified in anything uh that that that requires us to be at this business executive level to like create like something like Riot again right A lot of it luck a lot of a lot of it is luck man everybody spoken to that are that have made big games they all

say it was [ __ ] luck it was it was luck but I would say like the the the the only only um uh ingredient that I do see there's a passion in making a good prod oh absolutely that's the driving force right so what I'm seeing lately is just that we have swayed so far from just making a good product like people are like me myself my friends like we're like talking about the PS2 PS3 days God like I'm I'm like talking about remember Batman to me Batman is like the last of that era where it's like y because even when Batman came I was like whoa this is like who makes these games like like you like you're OG Batman one and then Batman 2 you have all that [ __ ] and Bill like no one designes like this anymore like it was insane from front to back super polished game design well thought out systems yeah I can't remember any of these new games like maybe multiplayer

games but that's not the same as like the single player wellth thought single player is so much more involved with like the whole story and lore and systems and everything you you know what though Brandon like you're right and and you know but how much do you think um I know for a fact those games that you mention were designed with guys that are you know carpal tunnels right with [ __ ] notebooks and but there it's like 11 o'clock at [ __ ] night yeah there's a lot of passion for it for sure they're sitting down at they're sitting down on couches talking or they're [ __ ] having a pizza at 1:00 am and then going back to the computer and [ __ ] doing work right right we don't have that no more you know not just we don't have that I think I love remote I still do it I still do it everyone's doing it it's here to stay

but I can't help but feel that that's going to slowly kill like the abilities to make these type of canes because my favorite memories of that at least the you know the old you know experienced developers is that going to an office and just [ __ ] with your boys figuring [ __ ] out and like to do that on a zoom it's not the same man I don't know how you it's hard to recreate that the time you're just chasing producers or producers chasing you and like asking you to like schedule meetings upon meetings you know it's not like I feel like the bulk of time uh and like and and what your your objective is if you don't have and this is what I see like the uh if you don't have like a stake in the company right and you're just an employee even if you're league right you're like I'm going to do what I'm scheduled to do I'm piecing out right like I'm getting out

of here as soon as possible especially with this this era of like layoffs where you don't matter it's like yo I've been burnt so many times it's like you know how are you going to justify to me to burn the Midnight Oil and take this chance exactly and so I I that that that that that that trust that was there to build like these PS2 PS3 games there's this contract right this like not paper contract but kind of like this like Mutual understanding of like hey you give me this money I'm going to in return make give like give me the security this money to finish this project I'm going to do my best because I'm passionate about this right now it feels like dude I work on something everything's going great and suddenly hey we can't afford you anymore see I like what the [ __ ] and it's been happening too often where I I feel like the magic is going to if not gone

already is dissipating and it's going to be hard for the people hiring to like get people to trust them again uh to get back to that place to create great games because it's not about creating great games anymore it's like I don't I think you still can make great games I think um it's just you have to find a new Avenue and as much as I love AAA developers um they're small groups they need small groups you can't you can't chase Trends yeah um and I've seen that in the past three years you know I've seen people chase Trends and you're you're going to fall flat man uh you know especially substance yep and and especially with these kids now right like their their attention span is a little bit different and I I'm I'm learning that right now because my I'm watching my kids uh over the vacation uh Christmas vacation and what they're into

and now I I I have a I have a good idea of our industry like I always break it I always compare it to the Hollywood industry and the video game industry and so I like movies now right they're produced by companies like Amazon and net Flix yeah right games okay let's just take away Microsoft and you know Ubisoft and all those guys but St people like us if they want to if you want to create something you're going to have to talk to a company like Netflix or Amazon right and or or hopefully they have a system in place that kind of like allows you to create your own stuff because if you don't uh you know you're going to be at a AAA Studio or in the world about a layoff yeah unfortunately uh you have to

kind of drive your your destiny at this point uh I think that's where our industry is headed there's 19,000 people that have been laid off um I hope that these people are looking at other avenues rather than oh I want to work at Activision we're on Call of Duty or or no man um uh I've I've gone through this road many times and relying on managers uh for your life like yeah it's not worth it dude you know it's not worth it so you got you gotta do another thing yeah I I think um I keep like Einstein has that famous quote where World War III will be fought with like sticks and stones right so I do feel like this is our nuclear war moment yeah and that we're going to go back

hopefully the optimistic side of me is like people are going to rely back to their group of friends find and and and and keep it small a lot of small groups a lot of small companies and creating something because I I would say the positive successes that I've seen last year while the Triple A industry was blowing itself up right yeah call Call of Duty staff um but like uh like a lot of like hell divers small teams ball guys like these small games were very simple 20 20 to 50 yeah and we're we're finding a lot of success because their profit margin was better but also it was just you can feel and play uh and and see the soulle of the game right without all this like keep it simple right like without all these like lens flare and all this [ __ ] like I I think you were kind of

like uh talking about Concord I'm sure you have friends on that game uh the Sony like I make fun of it all the time because like from the get-go I was like yo this is [ __ ] you know like from the first trailer I was like what are these characters man was like what and you you know like like I I felt like I [ __ ] on them enough right right and this not on the developers right I'm talking about whoever made decisions on that game to make it look like the way it did the marketing or whatever right I'm [ __ ] on those people right but I felt like I [ __ ] on them enough but the fact that Marvel Rivals same hero base shooter is [ __ ] awesome super polished right and that's like one of the buzz where it's like w the triple game is actually po which is pretty sad right but that's what we're supposed to be known for but like Marvel Riv actually polished so it's having like a Batman moment it's like oh play gaming is that's yeah that goes to the another subject of mine which is

yeah I always I always uh let me let me finish this point go ahead go ahead go ahead go ahead go ahead but like with Rivals is like concour somehow crept back into news I don't know if you saw these headlin but like people people who are like the five people that bought the game that you know suddenly the servers closed on them two weeks later which is sad and funny at the same time they were like oh why why is Marvel Rivals getting all the why in Concord why people don't like like shut the [ __ ] up just go die in a corner your server's off but this is why I don't that's why I don't listen to this news anymore um but it was just funny is like people that are playing this game is just as annoying that's what the game is it's like this is if you can't see why this game is better than your this game this other game then I can't help you man it's it's over well like this is what I was going to say is that there's always going to be three games in a genre that's always going to be raking in money right right so except for Battle

Royale because there's four or five of them I think there's pubg there's fortnite Apex Legends Call of Duty and uh there's probably another one but um and then you got the mobas and then you got you know the franchises like uh Sony Santa Monicas insomniacs and naughty dogs right um so there's always going to be three per genre and payload you know um my Marvel Rivals I think they were just like let's look at OverWatch and just like let's just because their characters and OverWatch right and just copy the [ __ ] out of it same thing with valerent I I always clown on valerent and I'll count of strike it's Counter Strike I I remember we were hardcore CS players right and so I was having discussions my CS friends and they're like dude it's [ __ ] Counterstrike it smokes but with [ __ ] BF effects right like why the [ __ ]

then it's crazy to me I I prefer Counter Strike it's not because I'm biased it's just because of the this the sole design you know the Simplicity it's just it's all about you as a character whereas like in valerant it's all team based right with Team based abilities and all that stuff like I do this you can do this right as as as another character whereas in in CSG go is just like you can be the [ __ ] hero and that's why right now is kind of going through like a because they're running out of room it feels like they're creating like too many characters with too many ability you seeing that I don't know if you seen the that's say that's that's what I worked at in Smite right I worked on Smite and I worked on paladins and I I understand like you're G to run out of [ __ ] room in terms of character design is if yeah this is if this is the the updates to the that you want people to come back to uh

you know it's going to be too much it's going to be oversaturated because I think originally like I like Val for the same reason as Counter Strike but there's a reason why Counter Strike have sustained itself for over 30 years right it's still relevant it's still topping the chart but valerant when it first came out was so simple it had like eight main characters and so it was kind of predictable you're able to kind now to go back to it it's what I guess Riot does best where they over complicate League of Legends style it's like yeah I hear I keep hearing League of Legends is awesome but as soon as I pop was like oh this game is not for for beginners it's like it doesn't introduce yeah to me I I don't understand why they didn't release any more maps yeah right I look at their Maps I'm not oh God I'm not even going to talk about their Maps but like why didn't why did they only have like five or six right and right and they had I don't know how many people were working on that team I remember and

and granted I worked at a smaller Studio High resed Studios props to you guys you guys are awesome um but we were banging out Maps yeah you know consistently you know every season uh you know we we were banging out maps and sometimes even two and sometimes a different [ __ ] game mode right and this is how smaller Studios have to to kind of um battle companies like Riot we have to pump out more [ __ ] than [ __ ] big companies right and I think that's why I love working at these places is because I get to do [ __ ] that like I don't get to do at at Riot or or bigger Studio which is I'm working on the same [ __ ] yeah every day for the next [ __ ] six months whereas at irz I was banging out stuff content and I get to talk to people I get to get feedback right and that's that's uh oh oh we have a winter storm in Georgia

coming up so we're gonna have a snow tomorrow but I I think I guess where I'm getting at is like you know I think we gotta make if this is all in you guys like as a developer like do you guys want to be sitting on your [ __ ] desk working on the same [ __ ] for the next for the next two years where you want to bang out content every you know two or three months right I'm in I'm in a ladder right I want to keep working I want to keep my mind right and that's why I feel like I have a more leg up on people that have been in like I remember having an interview I'll tell you an interview at blizzard I had an interview at blizzard I was uh um I'm not going to tell you what happened but like one of the comments was he he looked at my resume he's like dude you've done more [ __ ] than I have and and and I'm not I'm paraphrasing it I'm not saying word for word but he just basically said

you've done more [ __ ] than I have in a p you know in in in 15 years than I have in in 20 [ __ ] years and working on the same [ __ ] and I said then why the [ __ ] wouldn't you like in my head like why didn't you guys hire me yeah you know to me as a as a developer as a guy who has a lot of money if I have a lot of money I'm going to look at the dude that worked on a car and worked on 10 different cars than the guy that worked on a [ __ ] Civic for the last 15 years yeah does that make sense because I know I know that this guy that work many problems he's gonna find ways to to fix something solve something and and and and not the cost yeah yeah yeah yeah right you work faster yep you work faster man and so damn our industry is so [ __ ] up in so many ways here here here's the secret nugget man here's what's going on after those type of

talks in the back room just it's just people threaten dude that's the truth of it man oh yeah man oh my God man I I would say most of us are cool right but there's definitely it's competitive too I mean look at what's going on right now 20,000 jobs like you know there must be like hundreds you know you're hearing these stories with recruiters right hundred you know applying for the same job and everyone's like super senior super director right so I think if anything we've increased that competitive nature of developers to developers and I I think the Baseline of most of us is like we want to help each other I mean we're always helping our friends y for sure right you're always recommending I would love to work with my friends all the time but outside of that if I don't know you dude and you're like dude you're way better than me uh you know there's

certain people that are not like us that just straight up say yo I'm kind of threatened by you so I'm not gonna I'm gonna go with the other guy and that that does happen it is [ __ ] up but it is [ __ ] up because that dude is not telling his [ __ ] boss and saying uh to me and I've learned this in so many like the CEOs like all the talks right these are the guys that the reason why they're [ __ ] SU uccessful is because they hire people that will that make them [ __ ] better man like Shasha nadela and all those the the the CEOs of Nvidia they say the same [ __ ] and then but then you got your my managers them oh I'm kind of you know I'm scared of this guy because this guy might that's [ __ ] up yeah because you're gonna [ __ ] up your company you do that oh yeah because everyone's this is the problem and I think this is the the biggest thing I have about the game industry is we're so immature like everyone is kind

of doing another topic dude go ahead go ahead but they're like they're all they're all short-term thinkers right yes and everyone like we're not that United that's what I'm seeing we're not that United I agree we're not that United at all like 20,000 people and what are we doing man like remember that thing where voice actors were like hey I'm not getting credit and then within a month they're getting likeed are threatening and they got together right and what are we doing right now it's like I'm not seeing any movement going everyone's kind of just taking their ass kicking right now and they're just like and what's sad is like people are coming back like some of these people I get it you know um it's tough time they're coming back to the same job half salary like they're straight up saying yes to whatever you know and it's like this they fired us and then a month later it's like yo I'll take it half and it's like part of this [ __ ] yeah it's [ __ ] taking

advantage of and like if we're getting from the top but we're also getting among colleagues it's like man how how how long is this I mean this is the result of that like this is not I think it's gonna be Brandon I think I think I think it is g to be long I think I've read that the the game industry in the US has gone down to third ranked right ranked third in in terms of employment right number one now is Asia number two is Europe number three is [ __ ] us us used to be number one a couple years ago always yeah what the [ __ ] wow the what happened the great resignation happened right everybody's [ __ ] salary bumped up 50% unsustainable unsustainable right but then is it really unsustainable because the bu the industry made1 billion yes right I see I see epic making money I see epic making giving people money you know uh for their stuff right I I I don't know how

much Call of dude Call of Duty Microsoft is going to stay afloat yeah for all all these studios are going to stay afloat because of Call of Duty all the studios in EA are going to stay afloat because of re of Apex Legend let's just call it for what it is and these these dudes in suits know that yeah you know and because I I when they're raking in 500 500 million to a billion a year on on apex or whatever dude you know how sustainable that is for smaller Studios that are under that umbrella yeah that's like forever for sure forever man yeah there's definitely a a conversation that needs to be had because um yeah these management level executive level uh are just raking in the dough and and keeping it and knowing that people like me and you are are not going to say anything about it uh to to to to an effect to unite to an

effect where like yo we need more of that because yeah I I do agree like I feel uh you know tech jobs and I know you have a lot of friends probably at meta at [ __ ] you know Netflix that are making Tech money right yeah and it's like yeah I mean if you're living in the bay you should be making like 250 to 300 to like live around there right um and for what we're doing for the type of product and profits we're bringing into the industry I mean yes our team has grown right it is exploding I would say a lot of these AAA companies are are getting big right like 500 people uh working on a game or stuff and I do think like not even that's stupid yeah yeah size it down but even then if you compare to a movie right there's way more people working on movies than than a game pro and we're definitely making more money than most

of these blockbuster movies right so what's going on here and I I think a lot of that is we don't have a backbone man as a a game developer uh like I I thought it was bad 10 years ago I feel like we have lesser of a backbone now than it was back then well yeah because we were still in infancy right we're we're we were only 10 years into our industry you know so were still growing now we're growing we're we're this this Behemoth that has so many kinks in the armor yeah um man it's crazy talking to you about this stuff well it's I was complaining about this um a couple weeks ago actually because I I I do like the other thing is like we don't have real journalism going on in the industry right no one's really got Jason Tri but like I feel like that guy he's like he's so woke that like he

kind of tunes people out sometimes you know what I mean right and it can't be just one guy like uh I feel like no one's really everyone is in for themselves like you said everyone's kind of doing their own thing and we're kind of waiting for what what you know Papa Activision uh is going to decide for us Papa Microsoft you know it's like oh can you throw us a freaking bone type of thing and it it's it's I don't know why our in our guys are just not good at fighting for what we think we deserve like I feel like anybody that comes in like even QA guys at a certain point and I don't know if it's still going on was was unionizing you know just last year right yeah yeah like there was a group of QA H I forget which I think it was Microsoft that were saying that hey we want just basic like rights you know job security and stuff and I think they got it but I

feel like every other group besides the developers making the game have figure out you're only you're only you're you're trying to you you're talking about a Band-Aid but you're not talking going into the wound right and which is which the wound is the wound is management yeah a and managers chasing stuff yeah right dudes that don't develop games saying hey extraction shooter is a thing go yeah yeah yeah yeah BR is a thing go right that's why I like I liked working at HZ because BR was a thing we were the first second game oh third game there was for there was pubg fortnite and then us we just failed unfortunately and be uh uh Call of Duty took over and Apex Legends took over but that's right now it's so funny because you know

there's all these uh Studios that got money from investors saying $60 million but they're make I don't know what they're making but they're also they're like we got a hopefully a new hopefully a new trend comes out you know a new game game mode comes out so that I can I can milk the profits hopefully I I have a better team a solid team that can put a a bang a product out in a year cuz when I hear the stories of Apex Legends yeah right and and and how close they were to shutting down but then can you can you highlight some of that because I don't think I even know the details of that okay so so you're talking hit respawn yeah so respawn was a success it was Titan Titanfall one and two were successful franchises okay they were great I mean [ __ ] the game is awesome solid game but it wasn't making money yeah right so EA was just like you know and so we got to do

something right yeah BR comes out yeah you know and they're like oh [ __ ] fortnite is doing really well let's get into this and then we were already doing our thing realm Royale a funny a friend of mine hit me up was like hey what do you you just released real Royale oh cool you know and then he telling I how did you do those maps and I'm like just telling giving him some info and I don't know what if they you know they took that and then put it you know anyway yeah and so they took all the assets from time fall yeah right and just put a br together but see the the thing with that Apex Legends is because they had a solid [ __ ] team right right they were able to kind of and those guys were outside yeah they were outside the box thinkers right they created wall running and then Call of Duty guys were like oh we got to do running yeah you know but they were the ones right and they made that [ __ ] look

good so I'll always say this there's only one company that has been successful out of the Infinity Ward company guys which is respawn everyone else just kind of like me you know but the respawn guys now they're they're like they're off doing their thing they got wild light and then they got I'm sorry um probably he make oh gravity well yeah yeah so there's two Studios that Branch off of which one's going to do well right do be successful between those two two companies but what I'm saying is those guys finally released Apex Legends to where EA didn't even know or I think they knew but they were kind of not backing them and then when when they became really successful yeah was like oh [ __ ] here here's your money you know here we'll help you out right and that because remember this when Apex Legends came out they did not have any

characters right they only had one map they didn't even have a pipeline for the next map they were just like let's just see if it goes let's see how it goes and that's how Trends work that's how our industry works and it's is I'll always go back to the movie industry man and you guys can quote me this is the same [ __ ] thing we're doing this we're we're going to we're going there's these managers they're just waiting for the next Trend and hopefully they have a solid team so that they can say hey this trend's coming up let's let's take you know let's do our own spin on it right so yeah yeah man uh no one else can do an extraction shooter I tell you that much um tarov is just a different Beast uh if you're going to do an extraction shooter it has to be like you know it has to be sweaty and not everyone is into sweaty games and you could I think you could still make a sweaty game and still be successful because the sweaty people are

more likely to stay in your game than there are not sweat you know what does that make sense to you you know well explain to the people what what sweaty means sweaty means is a guy that will log in and pump six to eight hours a day hardcore in your game even if he has A8 to five job right you know it's tough it's tough but those games like you look at okay look at all the top 10 games right in in in twitch or just twitch alone let's look at those games those are all modded games yeah most of those are modded games and they're sweaty games yeah right League uh tarov um Apex right uh Counter Strike those are sweaty games man you got to make a sweaty game you know like you make an easy game like Fall

Guys you're going to lose people pretty quickly because they mastered it you know um like I look at the Octo game that uh this guy created in in ufn right doing really really well uh unfortunately Netflix didn't take a take a bite out of that because now that dude is raking in [ __ ] a shitload of money and um um but you know once you build once you're done fix making that game you know it's going to fall it's going to fall down pretty quickly in terms of of uh people but there's always going to it's consistent right you're going to have consistent fall guys because people like oh I just want to play a game I want to escape for an hour or two let's play Fall Guys yeah you know something like that but but yeah I think sweaty games is the thing is just you gota you know and I know this firsthand though managers hate to create sweaty games

yeah yeah yeah managers because they're always going to say oh I can't kill people that's that's your fault because you don't play games yeah they they want the instant gratification they want to get in and get out make their money buy their boat right type of thing um and it is a big problem because you know you're not allowing developers to uh follow with their instincts or trust their instincts who are the people who are making these great products um because yeah like you said it's the same story with fortnite right and I make fun of Epic all the time I [ __ ] hate how they kind of took pubg right because fortnite before was not doing well and they were in a rut as well after years they they were kind of lost uh uh uh what is it what's that game Pala something it yeah yes they were trying they were they even hit us up um at highres Studios at help

asking for help on you know hey what's this Mo like can you show us a little bit about Smite right right and so yeah we were helping them out a little bit on that uh but that game failed too yeah and then game fail yeah so me and then pubg you know they were I guess Diva because it was using Unreal helping that team out they knew exactly how the game was being played and saw like kind of response because I think it was still in early beta yeah when it was uh uh you know when epic got their eyes on it and they do had very talented people that was able to kind of take you know the key Concepts and fortnite it up right and and what did they do right it's the same [ __ ] thing yeah they took the they took a trend they took an idea and they had a solid backing and they created a thing out of it right right it was it wasn't them they didn't they didn't think of the idea no right they said oh this is the trend let's do it

and that's exactly what managers are doing now I think they're all finding the next game mode to stay afloat and right um there's always going to be the scories though there's always going to be the Ridley Scots that are going to create these awesome [ __ ] games you know um I don't know so like there's the God of Wars Last of Us you know the the single player narrative stuff that are always going to be bangers um but yeah everyone else only hope I have yeah everyone else like the only hope I have because Sony still has that Spirit they come from single player I know like this past couple years with the purchase of Bungie and they're trying to go into the multiplayer they've never been known as multiplayer uh their first attempt with concour tank right I mean they even canceled their Last of Us multiplayer uh that were trying to do right I I'm not even going to talk about that it's all I

was I was I was on that yeah but uh like I the only uh thing that I'm having hopes for for a big corporation like Sony could trying to like not just Chase Trends right but like trying to uh see their next phase right they're kind of diverting back to their what they're good at single player narrative games but also I'm seeing news that they're finally kind of looking into smaller bets you know they're they're investing more and smaller team it's funny because I can spin the single player if I wanted to and no one's done it yet right um I've had this discussion with Christo Dynamics back in 2008 2009 when I was interviewing with them like hey or no it's like I think a little bit later and like how would you spin Tomb Raider yeah and I gave him this idea and I just like now I I

[Laughter] know serious I'm I'm I'm telling you like you know I have this knack for like my friend in 1998 uh we were hanging out having a beer in front of in front of his garage door it was like 2 am. so hey where you going to go man I was like I'm going to go [ __ ] make video games bro he like why I was like cuz dude I think it's the future man it's like the internet is the future it it's going to link everybody and and I'm going to be [ __ ] playing a dude again against a dude in Russia etc etc you know and look what happened yeah you know and then 2009 2010 the industry was in [ __ ] and I was just like I'm looking at what's what's the next thing gas games was the next thing right I was just like okay I'm seeing microtransactions happening I think that's the next thing I'm going to go into so got into highrisk right now I I got complacent let's just say this I got

[ __ ] complacent I think everybody gets complacent highis got complacent but they were you know they stopped developing what they what they were good at and and I think everybody else has the same thing so I got into this complacency and I think this is why I got laid off um or I could have controlled my destiny a little bit and that did I have to go through this or could I just gone to the next thing that I said that I think what going to get into and that is that is uh VR um I think a you know uh people don't like VR but I think the tech is going to be there pretty soon uh specifically if you follow the market uh the stock market and you see what like where the tech is moving into what Nvidia is doing what Intel is doing what AMD is doing uh these chips are getting it smaller and smaller my wife has a Rayband glass es that are like holy [ __ ] like the output

is 4K yeah and I'm I'm just like really dude off of this glasses and then she's like yeah and I'm like so I've always wanted to get into VR uh I had an interview at meta that I I don't know maybe what you said is like there you were threaten Jordan but it's it's okay like yeah because I I know that the job that I was going to I could keep I could do it with my eyes closed and you know what I mean it's just it's silly but you know it I ow God has God has his own ways and and um you know he has a plan for me so I just got to keep following that meanwhile I'm doing this you know I'm doing stuff on the side so but yeah man that's that's all I have to say about that just I I do agree because anyone that have tried VR and yes you know meta has a lot of oh they're there contributions yeah there's a lot of VR sets out there but it's still it's still

like Niche compared to like like my wife or like even my kids like I haven't really you know put on the goggles like I have these sets but no no one's reaching for it and putting on because you know it's kind of intimidating how big it is but like I agree especially with CES that just happened a lot of smart glasses they're tiny now it's becoming like standard to have these smart glasses that are going to be able have these capabilities and and and it's not going to be as intimidating to pick one up spend some time in it because uh yeah there's great experiences available now that because I want to like for me if I get in if I were to give an opportunity to to start my own company I would go straight to VR AR VR all the way um God someone's probably going to look at this podcast and say [ __ ] dude uh we should start doing that and maybe yeah hey if you if whoever listens to this and you get my idea you better give me 1% royalty [ __ ] all all boats uh

rise when the tides do yeah um but that's what I think it it's G to happen uh I have so many like ideas for AR stuff um and I see that right I see that happening in um China there was a [ __ ] dope game these guys had AR glasses and they were playing like in an apartment building I was like what can I like if I could move across the pond yeah across the Pacific I would in a heartbeat because those guys aren't afraid and you know what I hate to say it man I stay up till [ __ ] 400 am to work on my game yeah yeah yeah you know [ __ ] you know I know you guys are going to look down on me I know I have a friend he'll looked down at me like Jordan why are you still working man you know I'm on Discord right it it's like 1:00 in the morning he's Pacific time we get on Discord so

what are you doing right now I was I'm just getting I'm just working on this map right now and it's like why are you still working I don't know man I'd rather be like doing this [ __ ] than be in front of the [ __ ] front of cars in the freeway about to get run over you know working on concrete I'd rather be doing this than doing that so it's it's a to me our job you know if you look at if if you're in it like me which is you love making games it wouldn't it wouldn't sweat you at all I think it would just be like this is my passion this is what I do I could have been a doctor I could have been a nurse because my my whole entire family is in the medical field shout out to my mom CU my mom was just like I told you an and I'm like you know and my my brother is successful and his wife is successful and I'm here struggling man as a you know I I they will come dude I know I mean it was like 1997 right I was

working I was I was like studying to be a nurse I was I was at Glendale College I was working on a [ __ ] kadav yeah and I ran out of the [ __ ] class because I couldn't handle it I did find the tumor I did find the cause of death which is cancer but I couldn't handle it and my you know now it's like I still probably can't handle it because my brother tells me all these horror stories when he used to work at San Bernardino Hospital San Bernardino by the way is like the worst it's like how do you say this is it it's like the white version of of Ohio Rural San Bernardino is just the the minority version of that which is just crazy [ __ ] happened in San Bernardino so he tells me all of these horror stories and I don't know if I could hand all that so I'm here now in the industry I love what I do and I hope

for all you people that are in the industry don't give up if you are if you're in it to to make awesome games find your Niche man because if you don't if you're if if you're just sitting down waiting for the next job constantly going on [ __ ] LinkedIn yeah dude there's I looked at a position yeah Brandon I looked at this position right it's like oh senior level is deser position 100 people apply yeah yeah yeah yeah it's so impossible [ __ ] impossible I I 21 21 years man I'm still I'm gonna look at that I'm like Noah you know what I I'll send my resume I'll proba never probably get a call but you know I'll just send my resume in dude like whatever man just do your thing guys and and if you decide to get out of the industry get a government

job yeah yeah right government dos fine supposedly yeah but uh hey man this I think that's a great way to kind of uh end this episode but uh I want to thank you for your time I want the people out there to listen to what Jordan's saying let's stick it out you know let's keep all if you consider yourself a good developer yeah but even if you consider yourself not quite there yet but are willing to become and work hard and become that good developer we all need you for the next phase of the industry like our story ain't over and I know these there's bad apples pushy bad apples man trying to push it out we can't let them win it's the best way I can say but this is the part where I shut up and Jordan any message maybe that was it or anything you want to promote you know anything that you're working on where you want kind of direct people to this is your time to shine take it away all

right here uh let me just show you what I've been working on so I've been going into ufn and just [ __ ] around and and seeing what I could do and this mode is called red versus blue so uh I worked on this map um again I I stayed up you know I I I put this together in about a week uh but I stayed up 13 hours uh so I'll let you know right now in the past month since well actually I don't know 20 days I've worked on look at how many Maps I've worked on okay so I've worked on this one it's all on ufn uh you know but you know I'm not gonna I'm not going to make any [ __ ] money off of this it's just because it's like over 200,000 Maps out there but I just wanted to get myself familiarized with this system here cuz I know that you know like I said if you're not doing anything um sitting down looking at

LinkedIn all day you're you're screwing yourself so I'm I'm here I created my own uh so ballistic mode came out on fortnite is a 5v5 uh csgo valerant style but it it's a little bit uh different pacing so I created a map out of it uh it's a it's a three lane map you know you got your mid left right I also created the game mode because ballistic code did not release so you have to have like uh U UI knowledge to create the ballistic kind of UI and I don't have that but I just created a map out of it and I also released it in in ufn so people were able to play it unfortunately I found out that you can't a loading system sucks in ufn so if you're going to make a round based game in ufn you're [ __ ] don't don't even think about it because what ends up happening is if if my right now my budget on this map is 54 or 60,000

memory budget and then you got it's is a maximum of 100 so if I have 60,000 and I'm loading up into the r next round which is like it loads up like maybe 20 30 seconds people are going to leave so that is the problem is it's not the map design the the problem is that the tech and epic right now where is is a round based game so you don't want to make round based games unless you can do things that I I've been I've been working on myself um creating a round based but you don't it's it's fake fake rounds so it's it's just it's loading up the map but you're building of custom rounds in in into into a giant round so I've been working on that recently but anyways going back to this I finished this one I I started editing it because uh luckily I had a chance to play with 40 70 people people one time they actually loaded it was [ __ ] awesome it felt really great people were playing it people were enjoying it the problem

was the loading system so I loading in between rounds sucked and I got people to stay in it but after a couple of rounds especially if you have an Xbox an older Xbox good luck right so don't make round base uh modes so but yeah this was uh you start off here um then you come here you buy your weapons right and then uh 5 Seconds 10 seconds the countdown starts and then these Gates go down you know it's just like valerent you go down the left lane go down here uh go down mid um this was all decorated before I'm redoing this map right now and then uh you could go down before you could get on a rooftop I took that out because it was op um so you can get you can do rooftop gameplay and then you get into the B site um and then for the CT you can come here same thing you buy your own stuff it this this all these assets are in ufn by the way um

you buy and then same thing created this interior space here uh it's not decorated uh I just didn't have the time let's see I opened up another map uh let's see this one so I started working on a new map uh same thing uh it's like ballistic mode uh two sites and this one I finished uh one of the sites I finished mid but I did not um I did not finish the other side so this is another one that I'm working on I got caught up again this is all all you get all you're seeing here is me just getting myself busy I'm just going to give you an example I'm just I'm just busy man like I'm not sitting down and [ __ ] waiting dude like get yourself into robloxs get into to ufn you get get into something that you guys are so pass if you're passionate about this industry

like I am I got into this industry because I I modded a [ __ ] ton and I didn't get into this industry because everyone was oh the the the trend no I got in here because I love doing this [ __ ] and so this is what you're seeing now this is all 20 days of work okay I didn't um you know this is just by myself I took I took stuff that was really uh to me was really cool and so now I'm creating a map out of it this is one of the bomb sites um you start off here this is going to be a a gate uh to the castle this is where one team is going to start the other team is going to start here by the dock area and then um and then here's mid so I started working on Mid this is mid lane uh you can go down here you push you get into the site here and then the next area is uh I'm going to I'm going to make this as a the area is going to

be here it's going to be a throne room um but yeah um this is what I'm doing and in the other map you saw red versus blue that's another one so this these are the three projects that I'm working on just getting myself familiarized with the new tools um and hopefully you know I can get you guys to kind of like start creating your own [ __ ] man and I'm telling you there are people I'll let you guys know right now it's unfair um especially like if you really consider yourself a really good developer and you know your [ __ ] like more than the person in front of you like I'm sorry man like like like Brandon said they're they're threatened I didn't want to believe it until Brandon [ __ ] said it Happ all the time um my wife my wife said the same [ __ ] Jordan they're threatened by you uh I didn't believe her because she's not in the industry but if Brandon tells me that man I feel good look at this [ __ ] man like I built this [ __ ] in [ __ ] 20

in in in three days this is three days okay solid game design right there yeah level design right looks yeah and I just went off to the other I have three projects right now and I don't know like so I'm looking at ufn and then you know do you feel just a quick question like this this knowledge is getting lost with newer level designers because I I I am starting to see that these Maps aren't good like the new maps in valerant if that's the latest and greatest in a successful firstperson shooter because even Call of Duty I'm looking at some of their Maps now sashed out right right I mean it's like either it's it's like Frankenstein Frankenstein is the best way I can describe it yeah IED to be classic yeah I have a friend uh who was the orig who was an original team to work on timefall one two and then he

also worked on uh Apex Legends right and he hit me up and he said Jordan have you seen the new map on apex and I said no and he said check it out and I looked at it I was like holy [ __ ] what a mess and he's like thank you and I was just like I mean it it's there's so much [ __ ] going on right you forget like I have so many examples on how to create good level design like I look I I do do a lot of studies and theories on like kind strike um some of the best maps I thought in in Call of Duty uh specifically Modern Warfare 2 and Modern Warfare 1 I look at some of those maps and I I I I dig I go into it pretty deeply and and and see what sticks right and then like I play those games here's one thing I want to let you guys know if you're a level designer don't [ __ ] play a don't play Capture modes don't play

hard whatever modes there are play Team Deathmatch because if you play Team Deathmatch you're going to run into the every space in that [ __ ] map and understand the intricacies of what makes that section of the map great if you play hardpoint you play Search and Destroy you're focused on the point you're not focused on the other parts of the map so you're you're kind of washing down your your ability to make a great map now if my friends they're hardcore CS players right they're sweaty right they hate valerant Maps they hate it I hate it you know there's this ice box map I'm like what the it is what it is like I I can't you know but that's that's their design that's what they want to go into right um I know the guy that built the shout out to him man built a good map on Cs and then they worked on valerant um but I have a you know I'm

going to let I'm going to let you guys know right now my friend hates the map that's on CS only reason is because it's not sweaty it's too friendly right it doesn't make for it doesn't make for oneoff plays whereas like CS Mirage or or uh or or or Inferno or nuke right those those Maps create like great unique moments that that map in CS memorable yeah me very memorable so again uh just to go back hopefully this helps you guys out um just get you know there's roadblocks as well I'm going to you know if uh hopefully you know uh I can get into Roblox and and make some uh some maps off of there some game modes I already have some game modes in mind I luckily I have kids that play Roblox Dom many like they they're like telling me all these ideas and like maybe I should get into

that and then there's also Minecraft right so I mean there's so many Avenues and like and like I'll tell you guys right now all these developers uh if you guys are laid off there's also a lot of competition with people that already are working in ufn are already working in in Roblox and Minecraft so you guys if it but the the the good part about this is that you're you're you're now threatening the people right that that are working on this stuff too yeah so it's it's all about passion and and just getting it just getting yourself busy and familiarized with other tools and if you know more tools the better you are off in that interview I interview like [ __ ] uh my friend says uh Jordan you're not a I know I know I'm not because English is my is my second language um but I work I think my work

speaks for itself so well uh you know if I can just see uh See you once again before I see you off if you can well I one question I want to ask is like how how can people reach out to is there a link to followage a journey somewhere a place where you feel like hey if you need to talk or you you know if I want to play one of your ufn levels how can I find you uh yeah uh in ufn I de deactivated all my maps at the moment because I'm currently working on them but my name is Musashi uh M UA sh1 or you could see like instead of sh1 It's s um but yeah just uh I unfortunately I canceled all of my uh my social media accounts because stay away from social media it's just going to make you stay in your bed and and

look at [ __ ] um yeah so but if it wasn't for me canceling my Facebook and my Twitter account I wouldn't have built this I'll I'll tell you that right now that's the truth it's probably better that way but you know for the people listening I'm gonna push Jordan and find an Avenue for him to like you know uh make some kickass tutorials man because I do feel level design have been trash lately that's what my friend Jason said that's yeah he's the one that's uh put Jason is I I owe it to that guy I I owe him an apology because I didn't jump into ufn quick enough he was the one spitting this thing up to me in 2021 he's like Jordan you got to get into this you're really good at this stuff and I didn't listen to him and again I got complacent y'all like people like don't get complacent in this [ __ ] industry get yourself like better than anyone else going on yeah always

something going on man like I want to get into VR AR as soon as possible so if you guys are making an AR VR game look me up there go Jordan s 497 yahoo.com we'll make your game for you guys hit them up yeah that that's that's it man that's that's all about me uh I hope that what I showed here this is 20 days worth of work of course I I stayed up till 4:00 a.m. and many times but um you know that's why this is what I do this is what I love this is how I got into the industry I modded uh counter- strike Maps so well and that's what we need more of and you know yes looking at things like this it really helps me like um it inspires me that you know we're we're we're uh we can find Our Place again industry yeah hopefully there are like epic uh you know here's one thing

that I want to say if you're in Rockstar right now y'all like if you don't jump into the the epic style mentality or steam mentality you guys are losing out on that or is that 2K 2K owns Rockstar yeah yeah they're kind of like 2K rock starish rockstar does the same way activis blizzard is Right blizzard so if Rockstar is not like taking advantage of their they're getting complacent because if you look at GTA 5 and six there those GTA 5 was successful because it has a community right it has a huge following on Twitch there's guys role playing on it every time so if you guys do not I know they're upgrading their stuff in role play but if they can't like if they do not release those tools for them yeah to create a whole like let let's say like I'll just say this right now like if they release a

tools for GTA 6 I'll jump on that really quick I think everybody would yeah exactly right like create my own [ __ ] uh and it will kill any other uh what do you call it what is that genre creative con um it's a genre now right uh uh Creator content is it I guess so yeah because there's like I think there's I know people have I know there's a lot of Industry people that uh AAA developers that got into ufn but then you can tell some of their maps are really not like these guys are they know their [ __ ] but they're not getting a lot of marketing they're not getting a lot of pull because they're and I and I applaud them because they're they want to create their own games right and sometimes it you know sometimes it just might not stick and but don't give up you know just because you made a map in ufn and you didn't it didn't be it wasn't

successful the game mode wasn't successful don't give up man like you know there's so many [ __ ] like I found out in in ufn there's a lot of tools that I can use to make you know different game modes so I've been getting onto that U recently and verse is coming out pretty soon uh it's an easier know it's it's it's easier code to read it's not it's not like C it's not like gript um it's not like scripting at all but but like the way you write in verses is a lot simpler um and so it's a lot easier to read as well so when you see stuff in verse um you kind of you can get you can pick up pretty quickly what what it what it's what those devices uh intend to do all right uh all right man I'll I'll find I'll find a link for you all so you can find Jordan some way somehow you

know at the very least LinkedIn or yeah just hit up Brandon if you guys want to talk to me hit up Brandon I'll be the go-to guy uh if you need to talk to Jordan uh thank you guys yep see you guys next week [Music] [Music]