GI Podcast | Call of Duty, Game Pass, and the Mario movie

Hello and welcome to the continuing pre-alpha of the gamesindustry.biz podcast in which we discuss the major industry news of the week. I'm John Hicks, editorial director of gamesindustry.biz and I'm joined once again by features editor Lewis Packwood. Hello. Hello. So there's one there's one big news topic this week which is Xbox Game Pass. So last week there was an internal memo from new Microsoft gaming CEO Asher Sharma which said that the service had become quote too expensive for players and that they would be evolving Game Pass into a more flexible system which would take time to test and learn around. Uh and uh and then it was also rumored uh by Jez Corden at Windows Central that uh Call of Duty was coming out of Game Pass. Uh and this week both of those things happened. So Xbox announced on Tuesday that uh Game Pass Ultimate will drop from $29.99 a month to $22.99 a month. PC Game Pass goes down from $16.49 to $13.99. Uh and new Call of Duty games are going to be added to uh both of those um platforms uh quote during the following

holiday season. Uh so about a year later basically. So Call of Duty comes out uh you no longer get that uh day one. Uh and that's uh a big a big step. I think it speaks to like a it's another change from Asher Sharma making her stamp on the business uh as uh as as new CEO. Um and I think uh we and then we spoke to uh Matt Piscatella and uh Piers Harding Roll and Piers Harding Roll from uh Harding Rolls from Ampere Analysis who were both broadly unsurprised um by by this step. Um and it was interesting like they both differed in their analysis of they're both united in their expectation that this will drive um subscriptions revenue but uh dis- uh divided on the impact that this process had on Call of Duty uh and the reviews for that game in particular. Yeah, it's interesting is it this is really the big

biggest big first move from from Asad Sharma since she started as as Xbox head. You met Asad, didn't you in in GDC? What was she like when you you met her? Uh yes, I'm probably not supposed to admit this, but yes, I have met met her. She was very very impressive impressive, honestly. Very switched on lady. I think the I can't say what we talked about, but I was um You've been in her orbit. Yes, I've been in her orbit, and it was it was an informal conversation. I think that um I think she is making right the right decisions. I think she's making smart decisions so far. Obviously, it's quite it's quite slow burn. I think going by her public statements, you know, she said the you know, Game Pass had become too expensive. The value proposition wasn't right for consumers, so they're going to change it. I think in the formal announcement,

they said the formal announcement said that you know, this is in response in response to feedback. In a well, it wasn't a public statement. It was an internal statement that was reported on by The Verge originally. But what she said was that they're going to continue to evolve this offering and sort of test and learn, which is again, I think a smart way of doing this. If you look at what she's done since she took over, it has been kind of quite calm, quite measured. She's been very She was very up front about her gaming knowledge or lack thereof. And she's been quite sort of careful. I think the the the impression I get and the rumors and the kind of the gossip has been that she's just doing a lot of sort of asking around and talking to people and kind of taking the taking the pulse of the organization and the things we've seen since like I'd arguably the first big thing was kind of

talking about project Helix which is the next the next Xbox so that
of course that was before she arrived there that's been going for for a while so she was kind of inheriting a project that's already been around whereas this kind of game past thing that feels like something that's come directly from her. Oh yes but I mean in terms of talking about project Helix I think that that's that's under that's under her regime I you know you'd have to assume that was her decision to kick off that conversation and put a name to it and start talking about it in the way that they have. Now there's changes to game past I think there will be more changes certainly the way it's been framed. And yeah I think it's it's a it's a positive step I think there was a lot of suspicion around her um but just around her when when she was announced obviously there was a lot of affection for for Phil Spencer who had run the brand for a very long time and you know I must declare an interest I really like Phil Spencer I I

interviewed him a number of times I met him a number of times throughout my career he was always one of the most personable and switched on executives
he had a reputation for being very well liked within the industry I think. Yes we ran a feature you know when when he announced when they announced his his retirement we we got some comments from various luminaries across the industry sort of saying what a great bloke he was very you will have to try you have to try quite hard to find somebody who who dislikes him and there was a lot of concern with Sharma when she came in she comes from she used to run Microsoft's core AI products she wasn't a gamer in the to the same degree that Phil was but but she has got a lot of experience running big complicated technical businesses which is what Xbox is. And much as I love Phil, uh Xbox is not in a wonderful place right now. So, it does need a new broom. Uh I think coming in and sort of looking

at everything and being that fresh pair of eyes is is is very advantageous, I think. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the thing that struck me about this announcement was quite clever cuz it's like, "Okay, we're going to make it cheaper, but also we're taking something away." So, you know, it's kind of the the kind of sugaring the pill somewhat. But then it did The immediate thing that struck me was like, "Oh, okay, they're not doing Call of Duty day one anymore. Does that mean they're going to stop doing other day one games? Is that Is that going to be something we'll see further down the line?" But it seems, you know, the analyst you spoke to didn't think that might be the case. No, so the both of them Well, I think they kind of reserved judgment. I I think I certainly Matt framed it as this is in line with what's been said about Charmaine's approach. And I think Piers said this is actually in line with what Microsoft's always done, which is to respond to sort of changing business conditions. I think the Call of Duty question is really interesting because there was um it was a when Microsoft completed the

Activision acquisition, there was a lot of um you know, it was a it was a big debate about are they going to put Call of Duty into Game Pass? Uh and they did. Uh and it was for the first year it was widely successful. So, that was first year that happened was uh Black Ops 6, 2024. Um I went away and I got some uh data from Newzoo uh to to inform this. So, um the And tracking Call of Duty data is challenging because uh it contains Warzone, which is free-to-play. So, they they can only show kind of total uh revenue um for for for like all of Call of Duty all up. Uh and obviously, it's not internal data. So, that they're they're a tracking service, so you know, we can't we can't swear this is um accurate, but um the figures they had for Black Ops 6 2024 was uh was basically a like a billion dollars in revenue for the first 5 months, uh which was a huge success.
pretty pretty good, isn't it? It's all right. Yes, you know, that's that's

that's some useful walking around money. Um but then and that was very much weighted by Satya Nadella um when he was Microsoft CEO when they were sort of talking about their their figures for that financial year. Um and but then what we've seen in last year, which is Black Ops 7, um anecdotally and again, you know, anecdotally that that that game underperformed. The data we've seen from the various tracking services very much prop that up, so the Newzoo data for the Black Ops 7 was 294 million, so that's a third of of the previous year's figure. Yikes. That's bad.
Yeah, so and and there's lots of and there's and again, we're talking about Call of Duty revenue overall, right? So it's not just Black Ops, but the it's that's not a good figure for a for a brand that Microsoft, you know, that was that was the hero. That was the jewel in the crown of of Activision

Blizzard when when Microsoft spent billions buying it, so that's that's a risk. It's so difficult to calculate this, isn't it? Cuz you're kind of thinking, well, how many of those people who played Call of Duty on Game Pass would have bought the game full price? And it's just no one really knows the answer to that. Well, yes, exactly. And and Matt Booty tells us very much of the opinion that um you know, he didn't he doesn't think it made it made very much of a difference, but um uh again, going back to the Newzoo data, so um the
[clears throat]
uh so the the the analysts from from Newzoo and Uh this will be in an article on the site hopefully, by the time uh you're hearing uh you're hearing this podcast. But, um the Black Ops 6 drove uh one-time step change in Xbox engagement. So, um uh monthly average revenue rose 71% versus the previous year's game, uh and Xbox share of uh Call of Duty um active users jumped from um Sorry, yes, sorry. I s- Monthly active users rose um 71% and the

Xbox share of course uh active users jumped from 20% to 34%. Um but um the and use you and over that same window, um which is, yeah, during the launch uh during that first sort of first 5 months on sale, I think this is, um Newzoo's digital revenue pool showed that Xbox revenue was flat to negative while um PlayStation uh maintained a positive uh revenue to monthly active user correlation. Mhm. So, the conclusion to which is that that that uplift in engagement did not translate into premium unit sales growth on Xbox. So, So, basically, people are paying like a a tenner and playing it on Game Pass instead of spending $70 and buying it new. Yes. And then, the second year in Game Pass, again, the the the Newzoo This is the Newzoo analysis. Um so, over the same period, which is November through March, um so, Xbox users fell uh 52% versus Black Ops 6 and reverted back to like close to the pre-Game Pass

baseline, while the PlayStation share went up to 57%. So, that uplift through Game Pass looks like it's it was just a one-off with Black Ops 6, and then it's it's fallen away. So, doesn't look like that was a repeatable um success. Doesn't Appears not to have driven uh meaningful uh revenue uh for Microsoft, and of course, it will have damaged the the the performance of the Call of Duty business unit, because of course, that's that's revenue that previously could have been attached uh would have been attached to Call of Duty. Now um is you know, it's it's a cost against the Game [snorts] Pass subscription. So it's yeah. So I I So I think that's one of the reasons why this change has been deemed unsurprising, I think. I do wonder as well whether Call of Duty's really a kind of good fit for Game Pass in the sense that often we have a data showing a lot of Call of Duty players like FIFA or Madden kind of

players. They often only buy that one game and then play it all year or play it for a few months and then kind of move away from it. So they're not the kind of people necessarily who might be kind of going in and checking at Game Pass every week or month to see what new games were available. Yes, it's very much one of those titles that has a significant percentage who were just not going to be part of that omnivore Game Pass audience and and you know, that this is that's intuitive and a data you know, we try we try not to do and a data around here, but but the the value of Game Pass and there's Microsoft has put out various reports over the years kind of pointing to the engagement levels of Game Pass premium subscribers and they try a lot of games and they there's a case for Game Pass really being a benefit to the industry overall because it exposes games to more people and they and they maybe try stuff

that they wouldn't otherwise have tried. But that demographic that cohort of people who try lots of different games is only going to have limited overlap with the audience that buys Call of Duty every year and probably EA Sports FC and maybe GTA when there's if if GTA is coming out and that's and that's all they play. So Yeah, or you you use the correct name there. I called it FIFA still. I'm still I still [laughter] can't get out of calling it FIFA. It's EA Sports FC now and has been
Yes. It's EA
No longer FIFA. [snorts] Yes.
FIFA's a mobile game now.
[laughter]
Uh yes. Although that which which will be an interesting thing cuz obviously it's um it's a World Cup year. So we get to see how the various um post EA FIFA games shake out. So there's a there's a mobile one, there's a console one. Um the or the PC console one which uh I think that one is from Delphi Interactive which is new out new out of it's uh out in America who we've previously interviewed. So exciting to see um how

that one shakes out.
Yeah, it'd be interesting.
But yeah. But to return to the Sorry. I was going to say I I do wonder just looking what your thoughts are on the subscription space more generally because I've looking at the data it's been up uh over the last few years, you know, both PlayStation and and Microsoft seem to be increasing subscribers but not it I don't think it's kind of looking like we're going to get to that point that people thought it might be a few years back where you know, this is the new Netflix for games and everyone's going to be using it and it's going to be the dominant system. It feels more like it's going to be a niche part or maybe not niche, maybe bigger than niche but like a sector uh that maybe the most hardcore kind of players uh subscribe to every month but it won't necessarily be the blanket way that everyone plays games. I think that is fair. That that's my again that is my suspicion. I think And again in in our report um Matt Piscatella uh so so citing Matt again uh was kind of highlighted that as one of the sort of grow growth sources in in

the industry. Like it's one of the things that's sort of driving overall um revenue performance. I think it's
[snorts]
it's definitely here to stay. I think it's doing uh like sort of useful business. um The interesting thing to me is certainly around this Call of Duty decision is Microsoft has been ride or die on Call of Duty for the last uh last couple of years, right? Everything goes into Call of Duty and it was all about kind of driving people into that model. This is the first time they've walked it back. And again, going by the internal memo from Asif Khan Sharma, um they're this is a you know, they're not committed This is not being committed to as a permanent and forever thing. They're going to see how it works. They're going to continue iterating. Um it's it's very significant that this is Well, this is a significant that this is not the the one-size-fits-all solution from Microsoft. And I And it's also a statement that not

everything is going to go into Game Pass. And I think the business they have built over there, all those studios they've acquired over the last decade, roughly. Um I can see Game Pass working really well for titles, you know, you see that we've seen from like Double Fine or Obsidian. Um or some of the other kind of the smaller studios in the um in that business, where those are those kind of games that I can see fitting in Game Pass and will and are likely to stay there. But something like Call of Duty, which is a huge business, uh again, the data suggests that putting it in Game Pass hasn't really moved the needle all that much. Um and then it's it's it's it's instructive to me to think about well, okay, what would be What's another game that they would uh take this step with? And the first one that came to mind for me, um looking across the Bethesda portfolio, uh is Elder Scrolls. So, Elder Scrolls 6, which it's been in development for a very long time. We haven't heard about it for a very long time. I have no idea when it's going to

come out, but that feels like another game that that's going to sell a huge amount on its own, regardless of whether it's in Game Pass or not. Like, it doesn't need to be in Game Pass to be discovered. So, my suspicion, and it's only a suspicion, was that they're going to take Call of Duty out then they'd probably take Elder Scrolls out. And it would be they'll leave in, you know, Forza Horizon. Like Forza Horizon I think is the as is always cited as like the archetypal Game Pass game. It's been incredibly successful for that platform. Um it would be interesting to see um if Fable makes it in. I suspect it probably would. I think it would be Well, it's something the game's coming out next month, so it would be a very It would be a big uh it would be a much more contentious decision to to take that out at this point. But um But there's kind of big hitter releases. I mean, I guess it's the same as the streaming thing, isn't it? Cuz you know, Netflix makes movies, but some of them it releases in the cinema first before

they go on streaming a few weeks later. And it's similar to the other streaming TV streaming services. It It depends on the game. It depends on the product, you know, does it get a big release first or does it go straight to streaming? Yes. And And yeah, I think that's that's an interesting comparison. Obviously driven very much by the um the pressures of the of the uh film and entertainment business obviously and that's that's a whole other um sort of kettle of fish that's um Well, it's actually get going to sort of we're going to have to start thinking more about as the Paramount Warner acquisition goes through and what that means for for the Warner studios. But uh but yeah, I think yes, I think that's an that's an instructive comparison, you know, like whatever like every Microsoft game will probably come to Game Pass uh eventually, but the looks like they're going to, you know, this they're going to delay that for Call of Duty and it's foreseeable they'll they'll delay it for other games as well. Yeah, it'd be interesting to see how that goes. Yeah. So, the other uh and moving on to the

other news of the week, so there was a bit of chatter um from uh Jack Buser at Google who's the head of Google Cloud. Um he was chatting to people at GDC uh and those interviews a couple of those interviews got published this week. So, there was uh one with us. Um He's very very, as you might expect from somebody from Google Cloud, very bullish on AI. Oh, he loves AI, doesn't he? He's all over it.
Uh and he was very, you know, the conversation I had with him was very much about he sees AI as a solution to the problems the industry faces at the moment, which is, you know, huge layoffs, spiraling budgets, you know, the old business model doesn't work or the business models don't work, which is true. That was very much a tone of the conversation I had had had at GDC. Yeah. It kind of ties back to the whole pulling Call of Duty off Game Pass thing cuz these games cost hundreds of millions, literally hundreds of millions of dollars to make, and you got to make that money back somehow. Um and yeah,

it comes down to either charging more money for them or making them quicker and in a more efficient way. Yes. I mean, I think those stats, that's definitely the the pitch of the of the AI boosters. I think there's uh an an option not much discussed is perhaps we could reduce the scope of video games. Maybe we don't have to make them to the to that level. I'm all for that. I am an old man and I don't have time to play video games. Please, more shorter video games, please, everyone. That would be lovely.
Yes. Oh, yes. Well, there we will also we will we will not engage with the Pragmata chat about dad games, which has also been some wearing discourse this week, which we're not going to go into, but one of the um one of the dad game qualifications of Pragmata is it's not very long. I think it's I think the the the quote was it's you can complete it in 13 hours, 15 hours, something like that. Yeah, that sounds perfect. I'm all over that.
Yes. Brilliant. Huge dad coding right there just because, you know, and that's

a non-gendered thing. That's just parents who don't have a whole lot of time to play video games. Anyway, to return to the AI chat. So, and there was a separate interview with Jagex that was published by Pocket Gamer not Pocket Gamer Mobile Gamer. Um, that was when he which he was and he basically said that to return to this AI being used in games his assertion was it's happening already. You know, games are all being made by AI anyway, so get on board.
[laughter] [snorts]
He's kind of got a point. Like I do know having spoken to a lot of people in the industry, people are using AI but not for the things you'd think. You know, it's not making graphics. It's not making kind of assets necessarily. It's usually back-end stuff. I mean we've got an article coming next week about the kind of more technical applications of AI for doing things like code reviews and stuff like that. So, yes, kind of yes, maybe. But, I don't know.

It's I mean this because obviously there's a very well-developed backlash to to AI use in creative industries just in general across all disciplines particularly in the West. So, this this interview in Mobile Gamer was not was not well received I will say by some people. But, it does as you say it does chime with conversations I've had which is it's AI is being used in quite boring ways for just all the way up and down the pipe and the people who will admit it won't do so publicly because they don't want to be involved in this in this kind of conversation. I can't I'm not going to claim I'm not going to make any claims about it the ubiquity of its use because all I can speak to is you know various conversations I've had with various people over the last sort of 12 18 months. But, I think there is the problem with um you know, the the reaction to it is so

ferocious that it's very difficult to have a uh a sensible conversation about it and maybe highlight ways in which maybe which people think it genuinely is useful and it is enabling things that otherwise just simply wouldn't get done. And I don't have a solution to that. Uh I think the closest we had to a solution was the AI week that we ran uh week after GDC, which was an effort to uh how host some sort of good faith discussions about you know, kind of put put forward put forward uh put forward the the arguments for and against. We're going to we're going to continue doing that sort of thing. But um yeah, it's just a very very touchy subject. And
Really? Oh my god, yes. Oh my god.
Yeah. Uh it's funny Jack Buser in like the interview we ran um talked about, you know, how AI's going to make develop more efficient and speed up. I am very skeptical about how much more efficient AI can make things. That there's definitely some little bits,

like I mentioned code reviews, there's kind of automated checking and things that AI could do in the background, kind of data really data heavy stuff that that might let's save a bit of time possibly, but I don't really see that translating into a sig- the kind of significant gain that say a $300 million game would need to to reduce that budget significantly. And of course you're having to pay for the AI tools as well. So So Yes. Yes, it's as with all AI conversations, there's the the boosters and the evangelists are making some wild promises and the practical benefits seem like they're going to be much more closely scoped. And I've again I've had a few conversations with that about AI being used for you know, and this is for things like, you know, server optimization and and that kind of stuff. Like some of the you know, the the less interesting behind the scenes kind of tasks then

it's and people I spoke to everyone have said that there are there are benefits there but not the you know Sam Altman tier you know this this game will you know just will generate the whole game from a text prompt.
Yeah. So it's a thing. Yes that is ludicrous.
[laughter]
Quite frankly and we we ran a story after GDC uh it's you know the engineers saying they're not really looking to to do this kind of creating a game thing and that the models only last for about a minute before they start breaking down. This this kind of stuff is is not really yeah it's pie in the sky kind of stuff but the AI is being used in in a boring like I say ways um but how much impact it's going to have I don't know probably not that much. I mean we had a really good op-ed from Tommy Thompson uh uh who as part of that AI week you know talking about some of the uses of AI like I think now I can't

remember I think it was Infinity Ward developed a tool for searching for assets um based on images their images so it was like a general AI tool for kind of looking for cuz there's thousands and thousands of assets that get generated for every kind of Call of Duty game or whatever game and uh just trying to find them if you want to put a chair in a room or something you can just type in chair and it will find every anything that looks like a chair and you kind of think oh that's kind of useful yeah but that's not going to be like a huge game changer it will save a few few minutes here and there you know a few hours but Yeah. But yeah. Yes well the the the conversation will continue
[laughter]
uh until morale improves. So the uh I will move on to uh for our for our final uh story this week uh I to highlight uh a good a bit a bit of good news which was the the the the Super Mario Galaxy movie. Oh, yeah.
has, um, you know, I'd

a divisive reception, I would say, quality-wise, but, uh, has been wildly successful. Yeah, $755 million it's made so far so far at the box office, which is is pretty impressive. Um, I have to say, the film wasn't that great. I went to see it the other week. [laughter] It's definitely not as good as the first one. It's more like just a series of things happening very fast. Um, although I did enjoy the nods to to things like Rob. I particularly enjoyed Rob had kind of yellowed plastic, which
[laughter]
I thought was a lovely touch. Um, but yeah, it just goes to show that like games movies are absolutely flying at the moment. And we talked last week about Hollywood is really racing to embrace games. Uh, and these kind of figures are kind of clearly why.
[laughter]
And I think I was looking through a list of the movies that are being made, uh, over the next couple of years, and there are dozens and dozens of game movies on the way. It's just incredible. I think it will peak probably not next year, but in a couple of years' time. Um, and things like, you know, there's

there's proper bidding wars going on for things like Split Fiction. Like last year, there was a bidding war for for Split Fiction. Uh, and I think Amazon picked up the rights to it in the end. They've also got the rights to make an It Takes Two movie. Right.
But, uh, it's fascinating. It's really interesting to see, uh, how things are going. And we've got a feature coming up next week where we talked to Story Kitchen, who are the kind of producing company behind a lot of these big movies. They did the, uh, Sonic the Hedgehog movies, uh, the Tomb Raider TV series, and dozens and dozens of others. There's loads. They've got their hands in many, many pies. Um, but it's really interesting to speak to them. I don't want to talk too much about it now because the the feature's not out yet, but but yeah, they're really interesting interesting to kind of hear their perspective on the changing nature of how Hollywood is perceiving games. I think they said something like pre-Sonic, you know, Hollywood uh didn't really give the time of day to games and then now they've kind of realized, "Oh, okay. Yes. Here we go."

[laughter]
It is uh it's interesting to me that obviously the Mario both Mario movies have have have been wildly successful and I think because Mario is and Nintendo in general is is such a is such a powerful brand in North America particularly in particular, that's become the the talking point around this in the industry, but um but the Sonic movie did it first and sort of was and and was uh very successful as a franchise before Mario was. Would it have been as successful if Sonic had teeth? Um I I I wouldn't like to I would not like to speculate.
[laughter]
Um I I've I've got to completely forgotten that. That's that's kind of That was a That was a while ago, wasn't it? That was an odd thing.
Uh Yes. Um that was that was a strange time, but huge hugely successful movie, still huge business for Sega, uh really successfully uh reached a younger audience, which is how these mega franchises. So, you look

at the Sonic movie, you look at the Minecraft movie, you look at the Mario movies, uh all of them extremely successful and that's very much what Hollywood wants. And as you say, we touched we touched on this last week. Um Hollywood they're they're under their own they're you know, the movie-making business is under its own cost pressures. Uh they're very keen on going going for IP with an audience and that's games. There's been We haven't really covered this on the site, but there's been a number of deals have been done for Roblox games. So, um there are movie deals being done for for the popular Roblox titles and I don't spend a lot of time playing Roblox, uh so I don't really recognize any of them, but those those deals are getting done. Um there's obviously there's the Skibidi Toilet movie. We mentioned that last week. Um I don't know how well that's going to go for them. I feel like the brand value of Roblox game is has a much uh shorter shelf life than something like Minecraft or Mario or Sonic, but I I guess we'll

see. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting. I think Story Kitchen are doing Grow a Garden and Steal a Brain Rot as well. So, yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how that goes. I I wonder it takes so long to make movies, doesn't it though? By the time they come out will people still be playing that or they'll be will they have moved on to the next thing?
Yes. I the the prospect of us Yes, how you script a Steal the Brain Rot movie uh I I would not like I would not like to uh to guess how they're going to make that one work. I wish them every success.
[snorts]
Um So, and I and I should also Well, I should um I should say I hope they're going to be seeing Story Kitchen again next week uh out at the uh Icon uh convention, which is the ESA uh show. Uh the new ESA show. So, ESA uh Entertainment Software Association uh US trade organization. Um they used to run
did run E3. E3 was all, wasn't it? E3 but RIP. Uh and now they're uh so, Icon is it's a new show. It's in Vegas next week. I'm going to be there.

I'm uh hosting uh an on-stage panel and I'm talking to people while I'm out there. So, uh I think that was that was described to me uh rather brilliantly as the Davos of gaming. Uh so, we'll see. So, very very much uh all about sort of executive and thought leadership and um uh big big subjects. So, rather than the um rather more consumer flavor of E3. So, it'll be interesting to see uh see how that goes. But, we'll be Well, it sounds very fancy.
Yes. We'll be pitching about that. Yes. Yes. Yes. Uh and you go.
[laughter]
Yes, I will. I've I you know, I've I've got to be like rubbing shoulders with uh Strauss Zelnick, you know, he's he sets a high sartorial bar, so I will need to uh He's also got very big shoulders, you know, I wouldn't want to rub shoulders too hard with him. He'd probably knock you on the floor.
exactly. Well, I think Strauss Zelnick memorably uh the only uh gaming CEO to have been on the cover of a newsstand men's fitness magazine
[laughter]
uh with his shirt off, which is uh just um you know, Eve Gilmour could never.

So, [laughter] Anyway, so
Eve might be listening to this. You're going to get emailed. Yes, well I'm well I'm I'm terribly sorry, Eve. Well, but you know, he's uh I'm sure I'm sure it's it's Charlie Gilmour now. I'm sure he's he's going to be the one who's going going to get on the protein shakes and uh represent the family name.
[snorts]
Oh, good. Well, I'm going to be at Gamescom Latam next week in São Paulo, in Brazil, uh which I'm very much looking forward to. It should be I'm So, I'm going to be hopefully we're going to be doing this podcast from there. Well, I'm going to be doing this podcast from there next week, so that'll be fun. Uh yes. Ex- But uh But yes, we'll see how it We'll see how it goes. I'm just going to basically look haggard, I think, [laughter] cuz I'll have spent I'll have spent the whole week kind of traveling and interviewing people and uh running from one appointment to another, so expect a a rather haggard Lewis Packwood next week. Yes, so for those those of those people who are listening and not watching watching the video, uh that's that's that's a reason to check out the video version next week. Uh and um obviously

uh Latam, huge growth area for the industry, I think uh really interesting to um I'm very keen to see the kind of conversations you have and and and the sort of temperature check um from down there, because it's been there's been a lot of growth, it's a huge it's a huge market, uh and it's one of those kind of quite buzzy uh territories that isn't China uh of of the last few years, so um looking forward to seeing um what you uh what you hear. Me, too, yeah. I'm going to take a do a temperature check and see what's been going on down there. Yeah. Yes. So, uh so I think that brings us to the end of uh this week's episode. Um I have the final point I wish I wish to end on is that I am so good at breaking news as we record this is I'm delighted to report that gamesindustry.biz has been nominated for an MCV developer award uh in the reaching audiences category which is which is uh very exciting which we're very grateful for. Um so they and it's very interesting lineup actually. I've been I've worked for publications who have

nominated have been nominated in that category and won in that category before. Uh and it's because I'm a very old man who's been in the media for a very long time. Uh and it's very interesting just looking at the short list. It's a very It's a really strong short list I would say. So there is so there's us, there's the you know Video Games Chronicle, there's the Game Business, there's the Respawn which is the Daily Mail's gaming vertical that's very kind of TikTok based. There's Lost in Cult which is very much a you know collectibles and books and things so it really speaks to the the spread and the range that uh reaching an audience covers these days. So uh another I'm really glad that us as a as a 20-year-old website so it is it is GI's 20th birthday this year. So actually I should say we're not quite 20 but as you a venerable website to be to be nominated amongst all those different um forms is very gratifying so um uh if you

nominated us uh uh thank you very much and even if you didn't please please vote for us. I think the details are at the MCV developerawards.com. Yeah, definitely. And I just want to echo that there's some really strong contenders there. All of those other nominees are absolutely fantastic. So basically any of them should win and it'd be fine including us. Yes. Yes. Any of them could win and it'd be fine but obviously we we want we want us to win. That's that's that would be that would be that That the the preferred outcome. But uh but yes, otherwise that's that's that's the end of uh this episode. Thank you so much for listening. Uh as ever, we welcome comments, feedback, uh suggestions on what we get wrong, what we should what we should what we should uh what we need to do to get it right. Uh you can email me at uh john.hicks atgamesindustry.biz or to [email protected]. Uh Lewis is of course [email protected]. Uh and the and the website of course remains uh atgamesindustry.biz. Uh visit the site, sign up for the newsletter, uh and come back next week where we will

have another episode of this podcast.