Game Dev Mistakes Nobody Is Talking About

There's a ton of top mistake videos by indie gamedev YouTubers, but I think this one is different. This one is from two actual full-time indie game devs, me and Matt Drowski, the creator of Streets of Rogue One and Two. In this conversation, we're going to break down and maybe even disagree a little bit about which mistakes are the most detrimental for indies. And by the way, if you want to make a profitable indie game studio from your bedroom, I do have a course that goes into all of this. It's 25% off for a limited time and it's below. As an indie developer, I don't think that especially young indie developers, I don't think younger, by young, I mean they've been doing it for a couple years. I don't think a GDD is very valuable. You probably don't know how to make a good game and instead you just need to make a good game and then maybe for the next game you can write a solid GDD. But for your first couple games, I don't know if a game design document is very valuable. In fact, I think it probably does more harm than good. It's hard to say for sure. Sometimes it's really good to stick to a

core, but overall, I think it it's it's a net negative. What are your thoughts? Let's see. Well, I mean, I've never really written out a document just just to I mean, every every document I I have or right now is just sort of like a living a living document. I mean, where I have, you know, what I intend to do. I was actually able to create a I created a road map fairly recently which is the the first time I've I've ever done that just just for people to sort of like take a look at and try and assess where I'm at with the game and you know what's what features are coming right that's the stuff that's at this point locked in but then but then again you know this game is you know years in development at this point so um I think it's that's that's something different I mean like I assume this means like a document that you just write up before you've you've started even working on the game programming the game or you put together the characters and the what's the core game loop loop and what are the mechanics, what's the USP, the unique selling point, you know, what are all the elements of this game? I I mean, I think it's probably valuable to have as a starting point, just not something you're going to you're going to follow to a tea, just as as long as you have in

your head that these things are malleable. I've even heard developers say that it should be malleable because it's a slippery slope. And I'm just like, I can see that being valuable for if you're like you're a 10-year veteran and you know what makes a good game and you know what makes your games good and you can predict it and put it out and then just follow a road map and finish it. Sure, that sounds great. But for the most most part, I think indies need to like you said, I think you put it really well. Use it as a a base reference point or a brainstorming document, but it needs to be flexible. I think so. Like I I know for me like my documents just just looks like a big big huge Google doc that that I just keep adding to and subtracting to and sometimes pretty messy but you know it's worked for me. So [Music] all the things that that people are going to have to bake into a game that people expect of any professionally made game uh that aren't necessarily fun to make or specific to your game, you know, but they need to be there. stuff like, you know, menus and controller remapping, interfacing with Steam. You

don't realize how long this stuff is going to take and how much how much it's going to be until you get there and you realize there's actually like many months more work on your on your game to actually get this thing these things up to snuff. And in my case, the first Streets of Rogue, like the opening menus like looked terrible because I just never found a point where I found that was like a more valuable thing to do than continue working on other features of the game. I was just like, I could do this, but but then this the other thing I'm not going to be able to do that. So yeah, it just ended up not so not so amazing. But yeah, I think it's it's an easy trap to fall into just just think you're you're almost done with something, but you actually have all these things that you didn't expect. Um, and by extension, uh, UI stuff in general, I I found recently UI. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, last year, um, is when I started really working on the UI stuff for Streets of Rogue 2. And, you know, I I told my artist like, "Here's all the stuff I'm going to need." And he's like, "Are you serious? Like, this is this is going to take me ages. Like, do you you know what you're getting yourself into?" I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, it's not so bad. There's there's so much like finicky little stuff you have to deal with, especially in my case where the game supports mouse and keyboard and

gamepad and multiple players. Stuff looks straightforward on the screen when you see it. But reality is is is quite a bit different. It's there's a lot of work that I think people probably don't realize isn't as necessary. Uh especially if you're doing what I'm what I'm doing and having all these options. So, I compare indie game development a lot to marriage. You you get married and you think you're going to spend all your time. It's kind of like like in the stock photos where you've got your spouse on your shoulders and she's smiling and you're at the beach and you're getting dinner and you're you're laughing and you're having a great time. That's marriage. And in if you don't get married, but the moment you get married, you you don't realize how often you have a very lengthy heated conversation about how what you're going to get for dinner, right? Or or just these small tiny little things. They add up over time. And that's that's just part of marriage, right? Part of being married is all these little tiny conversations that you never thought you'd have to have. And the same is true with indie game development. All these tiny little things that you didn't think were going

to be there. You thought, "Oh, I I have to make a first person shooter, so I'll be working on guns, enemies, and that's about it." And that's not true. Everything else, the tiny little things are why the why my game is so late. I always call it I always call it death by a thousand tiny cuts. I mean, it's like it's like you look at the footage from like 2 years ago and you're like, "This looks great. Why is this going to take you? Why is this taking you so long? Because because you're not seeing all the stuff that's that it actually needs to be a good game. Yeah. You know, as opposed to when it just looks nice in screenshots and [Music] videos. Thomas Mer, the creator of Ory in the Blind Forest, he was like, "I don't agree. I don't agree that you need to have a hook. He just thinks you just need to make a great game and and it it it's fine." Oh, it could be. I mean, what's the hook of Ory really? Aside from just looking really nice. Like I Well, that's what I told him. And Thomas, if you're watching, I love you. And I told you, I talked to him about this and I said, "Your game's hook is the hook. That is the hook of the game." And he was like, "No, it's how it feels and it's the gameplay." And I was like,

"No, but that's that's not what a I don't think that's what a hook is. I I think a hook is the doorway to the game. It's like it's kind of how you market it almost. The gameplay itself, even if it feels good, that's not a hook cuz you can't really put that I don't know if you can put that in a trailer." Yeah. I mean, when I think when I think of Ary, like I mean, if he thinks it's the feel of it, I I think he's I think he's in incorrect about that actually is as to what what gets people interested because I mean, like, when I think of Ary, and I I haven't actually actually played either of the either of the games, unfortunately. I mean, I it's always been on my queue. I always wanted to, but I mean, I think of just something that is looked like, you know, a league above most most other games. And that right there is is is is a a major hook. I mean like actually recently there was a um Chucklefish put out the trailer for the game Witchbrook. The trailer doesn't really show a lot of a lot of gameplay. A game that's been like highly for a long time, but just look at the game is amazing. Like there's not many people doing like a game that's threequarters view like this and looks this good. By the way, I'm not saying that that AI can't have a hook with gameplay. I'm

saying that a hook is something that's immediately evident in like the first 5 seconds of a trailer. That's why I think that it's important to have a hook because it's not that every game since 1970 or whenever 77 when was the first game made. It's not that they've always needed a hook. It's that we live in a new generation now where there's thousands of games you're competing with. And if you want to do well, you can gamble and just say, "I'm going to make a really good game and it doesn't have a hook." You can do that. Or you could say, "Well, let's just pretend I have a mediocre/good game," which that's most indies. If I have a strong hook with a good game, just a decent game, it'll be easier to sell. So, that's my point. That's why I think you need a [Music] hook or something uh might just like look like like look a little bit off and and that can have like a big impact on a a potential player's perception of a game. Like uh for example like if you go to we love everyame.com I think it's it's a website

that just shows you every new game coming out on Steam and shows you some screenshots and a easy to parse format. It's it's a great way to get an impression of like everything that's coming out on on Steam. Oh wow. Great resource to have. I love this website. I I go there every day. Are most of these junk? Yes. Yes. Um that's the thing. I mean, you get it gives you a good impression of uh exactly what's what's going through the the pipeline and stuff that you wouldn't see on the new and trending or whatever. Yeah. Like most of this stuff was will sell like nothing or whatever. But like sometimes you'll see like screenshots for something that looks that looks at a at a distance like fairly kind of cool. Like um you know, you're like, "Oh, this this kind of looks like interesting." And here and then you click it and you'll see like some of the text some of the like a font is a little bit off and you're like, "Oh, oh, okay. All right. So, this is this is like this is like a slap together kind of thing." asset flip asset flip or or just or just something where like you know the person maybe just didn't have a whole lot of experience doesn't realize these things are are are important. Yeah. Every everything's got to be cohesive.

Why is that? I don't know. Because people just their brains detect something's wrong, I guess. And and something usually is like if if there's a lack of cohesion with the aesthetic, it typically funnels down into the gameplay. But what's funny is people might go, "Well, but but Undertale," and I'm like, "Well, Undertale is cohesive, though. It might look strange and it might look kind of off and weird, but it's cohesive in its weirdness." Right. Yeah. Right. [Music] What I mean by that is the first paragraph of your game, I think of it in terms of like a if it was a book, the first paragraph or the first 5 minutes of your game are insanely important and the last 5 minutes are insanely important. And I'm interested to tell you this one because I don't know if that's true with your games because they're they're rogue lights. Last five minutes of a movie are very important. Uh like if if you go out on if you go out in like an end credit sequence with like with like even the music choice and

you get people in a good mood when they're like when they're coming out of the theater, they're going to they're going to be like that was a good movie. I liked that. And that's the thing is it depends on the genre of the game. So for me, you know, I've got a 4hour linear immersive similar to Bioshock. The whole point of a game like Bioshock or in my case a game like Twisted Tower is set up, payoff, set up, payoff, set off, payoff as you move through the story. And if that final moment doesn't pay off, they're going to feel cheated for all of the other setups and payoffs. So that that for me like I it's especially true in if you think of it relative to the middle. If the middle is grinding, it's not particularly unique. If you have the bookends really special, you can get away with it. I'm not saying it's a going to be an overwhelmingly positive game, but I I think you can get away with it if you have a really strong setup and a really strong payoff. Is that true though with with uh Streets of Rogue? Does the first five minutes even

matter for that game? The first five minutes of Streets of Rogue was a it was a tutorial which I was hesitant on which I was hesitant on doing. I think the tutorial works pretty well. People generally like it. In fact, I actually got a Kotaku article written about it back back in the day. Yeah. Because it was it was sort of just like making fun of tutorials like is like, you know, the guy gets like overly excited when you can just do these extremely simple things and like, you know, you have this this instructor who's just like getting so excited he actually explodes. Uh and and uh it's it's just ridiculous. But um it works pretty well as as a as a tutorial, but I I don't think it makes people drives people away or anything. But, uh, in my case, uh, it's not necessarily the first five minutes as much as it is like the first, uh, like the the progression that you get from, uh, like the the early progression. I sort of base this around like playing um, Crypted the Necrodancer. When I first played that, I was like, "Oh, that's the sort of progression I need I need to have like early in the game where where you you do feel achievement for like, you know, you're obviously losing your runs because it's a rogike, but you're still making progress and

you're feeling achievements and you're feeling like you're doing, you know, getting better and doing better and unlocking characters and stuff and, you know, I was able to get that down. Uh, so that that was that was important there. Yeah, the first five minutes, I mean, it was there to set the tone basically in in this game. [Music] You know, like often times I'll be, you know, a game will launch and I'll read the reviews and, you know, people will be reporting on something that that the developer probably should have been aware of or maybe was aware of. And a lot of the times I think it just stems from not having enough eyes on something before before launch. You know, it's like with with launches, you want to you want to just destroy as many unknowns as you possibly can, right? So, yeah, I think it's it's probably just valuable to have a lot of lot of eyes on a game before before it goes out. I've been thinking about my own game in that regard where I'm like, "Okay, I did all my testing for the demo. We had I had a ton of testing for the demo of Twisted Tower and it was so painful. Like so many so many negative comments and and people being brutally honest and now I'm like, "Okay, I got that out of the way.

Now I don't need to do that again." But I know deep down I'm like, "Nope, I need to do alpha testing for the whole game all the way through to the end." You can either suffer the pain of bad feedback or like negative feedback. You can do it before you launch or after your launch, but you can't avoid it. You're going to get it somewhere. If you don't get feedback before you launch, you're probably going to have a bad launch, right? You got to take your medicine some before launch in private or in public. Which one do you want to choose, you know? All right. I hope that was helpful. And be sure to support Matt's game, Streets of Rogue 2 by wishlisting below. And also, if you want to make a profitable indie game studio from your bedroom, you can check out full-time gamedev below. It's 25% off with a 5-day limited time coupon code. Join 4,500 students, master Unity or GDAU or Unreal, whichever engine you want to learn, and also learn how to get published or funded with just a demo. Get featured by major press outlets, or maybe even hit the Steamfront page. I've done all of this, and I teach about how

to do it. So, hopefully that helps you. Click the link below to get 25% off. Cheers.