Build Your Own Reputation and Help Others with Marketing with Derek Lieu | GduX.me

[Music] my name is Derrick Liu and my talk is called build your reputation and help others through marketing and usually I'm talking about marketing a game through a trailer but this one's all going to be about marketing yourself and this is basically good for everyone but especially if you're gonna be a person who is independent and wants to be considered an expert in what you do this is something I think about a lot because I work from home and I need to get my name out there soon that people will hire me to make trailers for their games so first a little bit about me is like I said I'm a trailer editor I've worked in the movie and game trailer industry for like 10 years or so and I've been independent making trailers for games for about 4 years and some previous works are Firewatch subnautica spelunky

to blitz Heaven's vaults Tacoma Bowie Park and dead cells and then the other thing here is I write a weekly newsletter about trailers so this is kind of my main way that I share my knowledge so we're gonna talk today about first the challenges of going independent just a few of them because there are many how and why to position yourself as an expert in your field and then how and wide to share your knowledge and then also just how to just believe in your own values leaving yourself because a lot of people we we need help doing that because a lot of times we just think yeah we know what I do it's not a really big deal but it's a big deal ok so just some examples of things that I've shared from gain from sharing my knowledge I was featured in PC gamer I got to be on game dev Unchained podcasts and the spelunky show like podcast just recently I got

featured in the game makers toolkit episode about making trailers which is super amazing and then I've gotten some more clients or potential clients and then also just kind of clients coming to me with more calm in hiring me which is a really big deal which we'll get to why and this year has actually asked back to speak at GDC what happened was I submitted a talk and it got rejected but then later on someone from GDC said that they put me on a list of people that they should call back so then I got in anyway which is really really cool okay so let's talk about challenges of going independent okay so if you're leaving a job whether you wanted to or if god forbid you got laid off or something like that the thing that you'll find is that you have a lot of hats to wear now like way more hats than you did before because you get to

worry about things like you know money and getting work and marketing and the thing is that the the bill problem you have when you're independent is no one knows who you are okay that's a really big problem when you're somebody who's looking for work if no one knows that you exist and actually getting people to know who you are is probably one of the hardest things to do and also it's probably one of the things kind of most different from what you did before unless you worked in gear and marketing but so the thing that you need to do to on your way to getting known is put yourself in a box now some of you right now you're probably thinking about this oh my god I hate this idea no I'm I am more than this is this little box you know I have my hobbies I have my tastes and my interests and my skills and all these things and the thing is that regardless of what you want people to think about you people are gonna put you in a box regardless because we just kind

of simplify the world around us in this way so for example if I were to ask any of you to describe a friend or colleague of yours you would probably come up with you know ones three things about that person because it's just only so much we can kind of keep readily accessible at any given time and so that the thing I say is instead of hating the idea of being put in the box you should enjoy it you should in fact put yourself in a box like a cat cats love boxes it makes them really comfortable so if someone's gonna put you in a box anyway the thing I say just choose the box okay so you have to think yourself so choose the box you think of yourself what do you want to be known for and then also what are the problems that you can solve you know is it sound design is it 3d modeling is the animation voiceover a QA counting concept art or video editing and once

you find that thing that you want to be known for then you just have to make yourself the destination for that particular thing so if you think about the way that people decide to say follow someone on Twitter usually it's something like oh this person is really good at X so I'm gonna follow them for this it's usually never like okay this person enjoys this this this this this is this perfect I'm gonna follow them usually it's it's one or two things saying this is gonna add some sort of value to my timeline because of I'm interested in concept art or something and so once you find that box put yourself into smaller box put yourself in just the smallest box possible something in a stand-up comedy people give us a tip is that they say in a Stanwyck comedy all your material should be as personal as possible because that means that no one else can have the

material there won't be any overlap because you're telling like your own life stories so the smaller the more specific that you make what you do to you then the better situation will be in so for example you know just think about what is unique about your work and then what is your niche within a niche so for example I could tell people that I'm an editor and I could also tell them I'm a trailer editor and then even further I could say I'm a game trailer editor and then even further than that I say I'm an indie game trailer editor so once is that specific then people say oh wow Derek says indie game trailers so he must be the indie game trailer guy whereas if just a trailer editor you might be like I don't know if they can do indie games you know maybe this they just do movies so yeah find a way to make your work specific and it can work in lots of different jobs so for example if you're a game designer maybe you want to niche down to like narrative game design or game feel or strategy games or maybe

you're an animator but maybe you want to be a technical animator your game play animated your cinematics a mermaid animator and just pick the thing so then people will know you for that thing and pretty much the more niche that you make something the easier will be to find an audience and then the next thing you do after that is you share generously just share as much of your knowledge as you can nothing is too small I think that a lot of game developers don't share their from their knowledge very often during the year I mean they do they share but maybe it'll be like at GDC maybe once a year or some other events and then the rest of the time maybe is just kind of sharing tips on Twitter or something like that but if you can take just the

time to just share as much as you can as often as you can and you might think okay this sounds like a lot of work but the thing is like not every single thing has to be like the be-all end-all the documents on this one thing you just just take one little idea and then just make a blog post or something like that so yeah you can really write blog posts you can record like a podcast you could film stuff for YouTube or you could like screen capture your work while you're doing it and like make a time lapse or something just anything that people might find interesting that's related to your work and also it's really good to just have it in one place so I put my stuff on my website so then that when people go there they can read all the different articles I think that I see a lot of advice on like Twitter threads but if I ever want to kind of go back to some of that stuff I don't know where to go to find it unless I just know exactly what search to type in so it's good to

have just a body of work about just the way that you think and also this is a long-term strategy so consistency is really important this isn't like okay I'm gonna write a few blog posts and all of a sudden everyone knows who I am and I'm gonna get hired okay so again so why share well okay so think about someone that you follow online or someone that you know and just think about and if they if they share their knowledge so think about that person and I think what do you think about that person you know do you see them as an expert do you see them differently than someone who maybe has the same job but maybe the other person doesn't share their knowledge I mean if you're anything like me then the person who's just sharing their knowledge I'm gonna gravitate towards them if I want to say hire someone who's doing whatever they're doing because the reason is that sharing shows how you think it helps

other people learn from your process so if you don't know how to like make trailers and I say this is how I got to this idea for this trailer then they understand some of the steps that it might take if they want to make their own trailer for example it also it shows what working with you is like and this is really important because like a lot of us we worry about we worry about our portfolio and like having a really really nice and shiny portfolio and that's great you need that but people just when they look at your portfolio they don't know necessarily what the process was that you went through to get there you know for all they know something on your portfolio took you three months to make and they need to hire you to do something that they only have three weeks for or maybe it was really you were really difficult to work with on the project but if you just have all this stuff written out then people get a better idea of who you are it's

like I've halfway to a job interview which the job interview is usually four get a field person because people want to work with nice people it doesn't matter how good someone is I mean someone has to be totally amazing at their job to get hired if they're difficult to work with but even then someone probably wouldn't so for example of people just showing how they think Claire Hummel on Twitter she is Shimla she's art director for Campo Santo right now and she on Twitter shares a lot of her sketches that show her process before she finishes an illustration and like I'm not a concept artist or a character designer so when I look at a finished piece I have no idea what what goes into that but then if I see all these sort of sketches I can just look at me oh cool Wow Claire does like a lot of research before she does her sketch and that would make me more inclined to hire someone like Claire if I needed that sort of artist and the other thing

that's good about sharing is that it will strengthen you you will come more of an expert because teaching other people what you do just really really levels you up because if you think about it there are a lot of things that you probably do in your work that you have a certain process for that if you had to tell someone how to do what you do step by step you might realize that what you do is not the most efficient way of doing that thing so then just the very idea of having to share this knowledge and write it down step by step that will actually improve your process in a lot of cases because like okay I'm not gonna tell them do this way this is a bad habit so okay this is actually better and then you'll come up with a better process just from being forced to share it with someone else because I mean everyone has bad little habits that they don't want to admit to but we keep them to ourselves so it doesn't matter as much and then the other thing is yeah teaching just deepens your knowledge

because the other thing that comes with sharing and writing something that some process of yours is that now that it's written out you your brain is kind of free to think about other things because you know oh I know it's this is right now I can just reference this later which times do with things that I write you know you're basically like Dumbledore taking the the memories not taking them out but making copies of the memories in his head and then you can think about other things now you might be thinking you know Derrick imposter syndrome again I wouldn't like to talk about imposter syndrome wart I don't know if they'd like to talk about it you might be thinking to yourself like you know Who am I to teach you know I I'm not an expert and if someone says that to me usually I just say when will you be an expert you know is it a year from now is it five years from now visit 10 years from now you know why are you waiting

and if you think that you just don't have anything to teach then I would say do you know more than a younger version of yourself you know do you know more than you did a year ago a month ago or we could go even if you do then that means that you have something to share or the other thing you could think about is do you see a common problem that you can help solve so for example like trailers I see that people all the time they leave the hut on in the trailer when in the it's a scenario when they really shouldn't so I wrote tons of blog posts be like turn off your head when in your trailers when it's not necessary or just many many other things that I see that are very common in trailers I just I just write articles saying hey don't do this XYZ and the other thing that think about if you're hesitant about putting out like content is someone less experienced than you is born like every few seconds you someone less experienced

than you maybe they just got internet access or they just graduated from school or maybe they just got the entry-level version of your job so that means that there's an audience for anything that you could write and you might think else are you know I'm not the best I'm not the best at what I do there are people just there's so much better than me and I say to that so what you know are they sharing their knowledge do they say verbatim the exact same things that you would say do you think that every single teacher that you've ever had was the best at what they do like they were the best English teacher the best history teacher or I don't know animation something like that because the thing is about the worrying about you know not being the top of your field is that even experts elect to read articles about things that they already know this is because of confirmation bias where we get pleasure

from people with the same opinions as us I for my newsletter for about trailers I've had friends of mine who are also trailer editors and they've read my articles they say I was a really good article I loved it there's all these ideas in there that I sort of knew but you articulated them in an interesting way so even they got value out of it and sometimes they're just people that I look up to so it's theirs if they still found it valuable and then also just think about like on YouTube how many times have you opened a tutorial on YouTube and it was done by someone who is probably eight years old or you know 12 years old okay so don't don't worry about you you can do it so don't worry about it too much and then you might also be thinking but someone else is already doing it you know again so what they're not you you know their audience maybe it has some overlap with your audience maybe there's no overlap at all and as

proof I would just tell you that basically everything that I'm telling you right now I've heard from so many other say YouTube channels or websites or blogs but the thing is like Larry and Brandon knew me so that's why I'm here talking about this and not those other people because the audiences didn't overlap and also you might thinking well I'm really bad at writing I'm not good at filming so the other thing you can do is if you can't create something then it's good to curate because there's so much junk on the internet people really want to know okay what is the best of this thing what's what is like the best level design for immersive Sims or what's the best sound design in in triple-a games so just think about like what would your best of look like you could make like a playlist on YouTube you could make a gallery you could make a blog post and also just

even the act of curating shows your taste and your personality and your thinking I mean maybe it'll go people find out that your bad taste but if you have a really thoughtful way of curating then that still says a lot about you even though you didn't technically make anything you just made the list and also you can you can build an audience this way so for example my friend Ben who is making goo blitz with his wife I fallen on Twitter I mean for oblate snooze but also because he has like a very specific aesthetic taste in games and art so I know that if I follow him on Twitter then I'll get these kind of screenshots or gifts of games every now and then in my feed so that's I'm like his audience for this particular thing or another example is for many years I listened to the idol thumbs podcast and on the thumbs podcast there's talking about like video game design and games that they liked and games that they don't

like so then by the time that a bunch of them formed Campo Santo I were just thinking to myself oh my god I can't wait to find out what kind of game these people would make because they just I've just been listening to them talk about game design this entire time you know and that wasn't necessarily a strategy of theirs but it's just the outcome of just following them and the other thing you guys think about is that sharing helps other people reduce risk which is something that people want to do when they're say hiring a contractor and the the reason is that again if people understand the way that you think then you know they're not just they're not just gonna be like waiting in thinking okay well he has the good stuff in the portfolio I'm just gonna trust that this happens but I don't know how this is all going to work but if they know a little bit about how the process is going to work then they'll feel much more confidence in working with you I mean think about it if you had like a babysitter who raised your rates on you

in raise their rates a certain year then you know at that time you could think well I'll just hire someone new who is cheaper but you probably won't because you already have someone that you trust it's because people people don't like to make risky decisions and if if that means paying a little bit more than usually then they'll do it yeah so reciprocity the more that you give the more that people will want to return it's just kind of a natural sort of human instinct you know it's not just like social obligation people just kind of naturally will just think like oh my god you know Derek helped me so much with this thing at the very least maybe they'll just send an email saying thank you which you know I love when I get emails from people saying oh my god I read your articles and it helped me make a trailer you know that's amazing you know I love receiving that sort of email

because the thing is just like when you provide just like so much value to people they just they just really really want to return it you know maybe a little next time you tweet something then they'll retweet it they'll share something oh this this new thing that came out and then it'll promote you if they feel that you helped them out yeah just just think about someone that you follow that you appreciate in some way you know are you more or less likely to share something or help them out in some sort of way probably more likely if you feel you've got some sort of value and then the mind-blown part here is that's content marketing you might have heard the term content marketing and it sounds like a kind of a gross term cuz I know people think about like contents as a sorta like disposable thing and also marketing people you just think yeah marketing isn't that like trying to convince someone to do something that you don't want to do it's like no content marketing if the term it's simply just making valuable content to help other people and then it makes you

more visible and in the best of cases once you're more visible then people come to you and say hey Derek I read your articles about trailers I want work with you because I read old stuff and they found it really valuable and also again this is a long-term thing this isn't a short sort of right five blog post and let the let the clients roll in and the other thing I would say is you know while doing this you should do it expecting a return you know just just be genuine just genuinely want to help people and that will come through because if you do it in a sort of way where it's like you know I'm gonna write this blog post and at the end you're like you so hire me hmm you want to want to hire me then the people are they're gonna see you're right through it so just just share your knowledge and then I have some quick tips here it's just as I like a person who works from home and has a deal with money just there's some little tips here for ways of thinking about money that I think could help you

the first is this thing called the client call test so the question I asked here is are you happy when the client calls this is just a way to see whether or not you're getting paid enough so if a client calls me and I know they're paying me $50 to make a trailer then I'm gonna be like what but if they're paying me you know a hundred thousand dollars of course I'm gonna pick up the phone any time of day so it's just like a quick way to be like what is my gut feeling about how well I'm being paid if you if they call and you're like yeah then you're probably not being paid enough if they call and you're like oh cool then you're probably better space so the next one is the friend referral test which is would you refer this job to a friend at that rate and what this is trying to cut through is that the way that we kind of devalue our own skills cuz at a certain level of skill you're

like really good at doing something like quickly especially so sometimes someone might come to you with a low price and you think yourself I can do it really fast you know but you just set that precedent if you just keep on taking jobs for less money so ask yourself if you're not sure about a price would I give this to you like my friend Jeff and then if your answer is like no my friend Jeff is worth way more than that and then you might be more likely to say that with certain dollar value than with yourself and then this other one is you can't take care of everyone which it sounds a little bit a little bit callous but the idea behind this is that I think a lot of us I know this because I've done this before is that maybe you might look at a team saying you're a small team they can't afford X number of dollars so I'm gonna charge them less but the thing is that's assuming that if you give them a big number they'll say yes and then just put

themself in a difficult position which people will not do okay people will not say hey I can't afford you know two thousand dollars but I'll pay it anyway even though it means not making rent or having heat you know people aren't going to do that so don't worry about other people because they're already doing that for themselves the next one here is compare rates except when you shouldn't so Meg talked about this in earlier talk which is you know talking about rates is good between colleagues and friend friends so you just know kind of generally how much something should cost but something I used to do was if there was someone that I really looked up to and I and I had a general idea of how much they charge and I was thinking to myself well you know I'm not as good as that person I should charge less than them but if like that person's not available to take a jobs and it doesn't really matter how much they they charge so you can't you can compare two people but only to a certain point just just everyone who's working contracts in

general should charge more because I think created people we we just we get so good at our skills we're like ABS we're good at this thing it's so easy you know it's nothing you know but the thing is that you can't measure it in terms of the value to you because it's the value to them for them they're like oh my god this thing that took you five seconds to do I could never do in a week but for you like oh you know it's fine you know maybe it's five dollars so but don't think that way okay so wrapping up recap choose your box make yourself the go-to place for that box share your knowledge teaching people helps the students and the teacher and just you can do it so go do it and then one last thing a little quote from Seth Godin just a different way I think about marketing this is from this book this is marketing marketing is the generous act of helping someone solve a problem so just go out and help people solve their problems and they'll come to you for it

and that's it so this is my website you can go to game trailer editor com which is where my newsletter is and game trailer specs comm is if you're releasing trailers on multiple consoles and you need to know all the like endslate information and then game trailer debug tools comm is my GDC talk about Game Capture and I have a whole big list of like debug options that are good to add your game if you're making trailers and that's it hey don't say that's it like it wasn't a lot that's a lot of great content plus if anybody's interested in more and you go read the blog the blog is chock full of helpful tough helpful stuff and tutorials I've been through your website three times before we were doing this one once because we did the podcast but - I check for updates since we were bringing you back here man so happy to see how much how much you're interested in helping people do what you do man so yeah there's way more work than there are versions or copies of me yeah it's plenty of fish not enough fishermen so he doesn't mind alright so I'm gonna go straight to the questions and make sure

we get through a lot of them so this one comes from calyx Jimmy Oh any tips on getting used to sharing knowledge I do it first immediately as it would be too much work even just screen capture small tweets any suggestion on platforms to do so I would say find the way to share that's easiest for you so for me the easiest thing for me to do is just start my newsletter and just write a blog post each week you know some people maybe they're really good in front of the camera so they just need to turn on the camera and then just start talking if that works for you then that's great - or maybe you're good at screencasting so you're just talking to the microphone while you're navigating things in your software or or just want to record and do a podcast so I'd say find the thing that's the easiest for you but a lot of it there's no real trick is just just start you know you can't think about being like a perfectionist because

then you'll just you'll just never ever start at all it's it's not about again making like this is like carved in stone this topic you know you could delete stuff later on if it's not good you later realize all right next question comes in from left handed Heather she's asking today or they're asking today just because you know 2019 don't want to assume very informative so how can you find the niche and still have a wide enough net to get clients how are you finding itch and I still have a wide enough net to get clients I'm going to be really drilled down and like you said I'm a video yeah I'm trailer how did you mean fine okay I mean it's it's it's harder to get much more niche than indie game trailer editor I mean I could still even niche I mean in a way and you've done even further that because I have certain taste in indie games so they're only certain things I take like I don't really work on a lot of RTS games which by the way if you want to make trailers

for RTS games there's a big market I think we assume that there if we niece down and there's fewer clients but the thing that would to say is well how many clients do you need you know how many clients do you need in a year to actually get by it's probably not a thousand certainly not you know more than that it's not a hundred even probably so if your number is like you know twelve like one a month then you can probably find twelve people who need what you do and again if you're if you're super niche then people will gravitate you even more if they just need that specific thing and they're just there's so many people making games there's so many games like I always feel like ah I wonder am I gonna have clients this this year and then I just see like a conference or something that or a game montage and I'm like what is this game I've never heard of it and it turns out this game has been being worked on for like three or five years and only now it's coming out there's like tons of

those games out there right now and I don't even know where they are so um it's it's there you may not think but it's absolutely there yeah I mean there's definitely a lot of games a lot a lot of trailers I think we had a conversation before how thinking in small steps to create your game to find your niche you you had a very interesting thought process with how to approach your pitch just like a trailer right obviously the people that you're pitching and the amount of work that and resources that you have is very finite right so you definitely want to find a cross here of where everybody's interest meets which is I want to make this game with a group of friends but I don't want to waste anything on the cutting floor and the same on cutting a trailer you want to be able to make the loudest noise without leaving any of that in the rough cut what was what was that thing

that you talked to me about I think that everybody over here should be listening to you it was I don't remember exactly but I'm I think what I was probably talking about was especially on the first trailer people worried about you know putting everything in the trailer because they've been working on this game for so long and everything is important and then that basically just muddies the waters by just having this trail that it's really unfocused so the thing that I always tell people is when you're making your trailer especially your first one is think about one or two things that you want people to take away from your game so for example I made a trailer for heavens fault and their first trailer said like open world adventure every choice matters decipher a language and then when they came to me I said to them well only one of those three things sounds unique or interesting to me which is deciphering a foreign language or alien language so

I'm like just just throw this stuff out I know it's important to your game but it's not gonna make people's eyes light up because oh my god that's such an original thing a world that is open or something worth of choices matter which not say that it doesn't matter in the game but when you just see it on paper or in a trailer it doesn't necessarily you can't understand how they put their unique spin on that thing but if it's something just totally unique like Translate language then heck yeah you know that jumps out yeah so think about one or two things that you want to communicate with your trailer especially the first one all right so this question comes from Seif affects great self-worth advice here do you have in formula for how often is put out content like blogs V logs dev vlogs etc I think you kind of mentioned this for once a week the general safe rate to release content yeah once a week is fine it yeah you might think you have to like

saturate the audience or something like that but once a week is all alive I mean I just I feel like I just blinked and all of a sudden I this I'm like going through Squarespace and thinking oh my god this is more than the archived module can fit on this page I have to figure out how to fit it all in here but like you just make something consistently just set a schedule you'd be amazed at how quickly you accrue just work so you know once a week is fantastic I think and then in the meantime you could just make like little things now you have like a really really small thing that only fits on Twitter just so then that people know you're there but yeah once a week every once every two weeks is probably fine too but weekly schedule a weekly schedule sounds like it might not actually be that much but it's a it can it's a lot especially when it's like the night before the newsletters do and you're like how crap I didn't I didn't finish writing yet yeah I definitely sign off on that like I think with anything that you're doing extra outside of creating your game or

anything anything to do with marketing you have to really set yourself up for success by committing it to something not just for the next couple months but like can I do this one thing once a week whatever for the rest of my life am i signing up for that because I'm in it to win it right if I'm not doing this for the rest of my life then it's just things that I eventually will fall off and it's that consistency that I'm finding with marketing like in people rely on you for that content that they come back to for every week or every two times every week or something like that and so I definitely sign off with what you're saying it then which is a lot I mean what is a lot yeah set yourself a schedule not necessarily just like I release on this day but maybe you know I'm gonna write my newsletter for a half an hour yeah every other day or something like that and just say okay I'm gonna write for this half an hour

and then as soon as I'm done with that and nothing else until tomorrow because tasks fill the time that they're given so if you give yourself the week you just think oh it's a week to do newsletter then you you you might pick at it here and there but if you just set the time like this is only newsletter time then you might find yourself like totally ahead eventually because just you know I mean you know I'm really bad at you know be on Twitter or something like that or checking stuff on YouTube what if I just set that time and say this is only for this time then it's amazing how fast stuff can happen so I've got a question for you for me personally at this stage in your career with how many pieces of trailer content that you've released in the tutorial content that you're offering obviously you consider yourself very high level so how is it that you find that you're still refining your skills or finding new inspiration or even learning to new techniques in what you're doing because I think that this kind of mindset that you will offer as

advice could probably apply across the board to people who are high level in what they do yeah it's a good question the the thing that I do is I just keep watching other people that are in my space or not necessarily even just trailers just anything could be film or games ideas can come from everywhere but I mean even just in trailers though I'll see something every now and then think oh my god that crap so as long as I keep having that feeling then I'm still gonna find a way to try to push myself if I at some point thing I've done every single way there is do trailer then I'm in a bad situation but I I've never ever really thought that at all in from my perspective there's people just way better than me in other fields and we're the same field that I'm looking up to and even if people would say Oh Derrick you're on you're better than that person or you're on the same

level as that person even if you have like two experts they're still gonna do different things it's not like you know once you reach this level you're always gonna make a thing of this quality you know cuz you know progress isn't a straight line that goes up like this you know it's it's it goes in waves so it's always time to learn and try new things okay yeah I mean that's what you got to be really open to like open to learning and trying new things so obviously we don't have everything we know from the get-go especially when we're starting to strike it on our own right going out there exploring this new world this new territory I feel like the people who feel super comfortable are the ones that are the most in trouble like in my opinion he's like oh I got this I've been doing gamedev for the last 10-15 years how we've always done I talked to that producer I know how to produce so I'm gonna take on the shoes

and responsibilities of everybody that's in the studio because I've kind of seen what they're doing around the studio and those are the people I feel that are the most in trouble when reality hits because they're just not prepared to adapt I mean that's generally how it is well what do you look forward to I guess in your career at this stage are there any game companies that you're looking to try to work with or just things that you're still excited about new ways to release your type of storytelling your visual storytelling content or new platforms that are ready to receive you I guess what's on your horizon as far as innovations are concerned well Gannett these days I mean yeah there's certainly companies that I would like to work for I'm at the I'm at the fortunate position where I get to at this point just only take stuff that I want to work on and so I mean just weren't just being able to work with more people that I like on games that I like it's kind of like the standing goal and

you know that for all I know you know there's tons and tons of games being made that I don't know about yet so I want to work on those games because maybe they'll pop up on the right radar I'd be like oh my god what was this I had no idea that I could possibly ask for this and also I want to you know just just also just just teach more people how to make good trailers because like I said there's not enough of us I get way more requests than I can take and I just want to see more people get good at it until it's like as big as I don't know if movie trailer industry or something like that yeah I mean teaching and teaching people even online is it's very fulfilling so I want to want to do more of that any less words of advice or encouragement to the people potentially getting more into visual storytelling and trailer creation that are currently on the stream that have just seen your video one last little nugget that you

can send them on their way with one last little nugget I know just just just keep it simple don't don't don't make it too complicated just keep it simple keep stick to the things that people will remember don't worry about showing everything and just just go for it you know if you're if you're person who wants to make trailers eventually you don't know where to start you know go to forums just say hey I want to make trailers for games or just make trailers for games that you already like you make fan trailers I totally made tons of fan trailers before I was professional so just just just start cutting all right well Derek if you want to send us off and tell us to go follow any channels or look out for anything specific I'll give you a minute or two to do that but after that we'll be able to wrap up and you're the anchor for today so we thank you for pulling an hours worth of content for us brother we really appreciate it yeah I

don't know just you can go to my website but if you just go to game trailer editor com sign up for our newsletter I'm sending out trailered nuggets every single Sunday I don't know if you're into fine art go to go to art profit org that's my sister's website she has a free art education website called art profit org she also on youtube if you're interested in like you know printmaking and illustration and drawing and that sort of thing but yeah that's that's probably it all right well my man I honestly from the bottom of my heart thank you very much for being a big part of this again you're so cool to be involved in both the podcast and the first ever game dev Unchained Expo so you go down on GDU history for being on both platforms if we ever have like a an inch shrine hall of like who's really been big supporters you're in there men will make it right thank you so much for having me yes seriously we look forward to seeing you at the next GDC party how

about that yeah yeah totally all right brother you have yourself a good evening [Music] you [Music]